Controllers SAVE THE DAY Again! F/A-18 Emergency Fuel in St. Louis in 2012

When an F/A-18 (Super Hornet?) declared minimum (and then emergency) fuel, these controllers stepped up and helped him get on the ground in bad weather. ATC Audio breakdown.
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The appearance of U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) visual information does not imply or constitute DoD endorsement.
Views presented are my own and do not represent the views of DoD or its Components.

[@WildWeaselPhantom]

My flight instructor once told me that ATC is your best friend up in the air especially during an emergency. They will do everything they can to get you down as safe as possible. Shout out to both the ATC and the pilot for keeping aviation safe.

[@cdyjv118]

Magnum!

[@DonWan47]

Pausing and explaining is vital to this channel, you break it down and add context usually with your own experience. Keep doing what you’re doing, Mover.

[@steve_j_grundon]

*Absolutely!* Without the pausing/explaining, what's the point?!? 🤨🤨

[@babygrrlpc5057]

Loved this coverage, Mover. Even a non-flying dummy like me could understand because of your breakdown. So appreciated.

[@pollylewis9611]

I like the way you stop and break down how and why something is going on in your videos like this, those that don't must be the best pilots around! Awesome job on the controllers and pilot for a safe landing, thanks Mover!

[@johnmorykwas2343]

A good controller is worth their weight in gold. RF-4 in the weather with incapacitated front seater, PAR approach.

[@suninmoon4601]

Interesting scenario. As a retired military and civilian controller of 36 yrs, it's clear that the controller was improvising. For example: Standard Rate of Descent doesn't really exist--because aircraft and situation dependent. Also, and more important, there are minimum altitudes that the controller can issue. In this case it was 2,200 feet. So he had to--make something up--to get the Hornet below the clouds, in order to have any chance of seeing the runway. It was pretty creative and risky. If it hadn't worked out, he would have faced some tough questions and possibly criminal charges. But that's in the nature of job. Well done 👍

[@zvexevz]

What possible criminal charges? And for what exactly? I don't understand what you're saying about minimum altitudes. This was an entirely improvised approach, with no option for a go around, so the concept of a minimum in this context makes no sense.

[@suninmoon4601]

@@zvexevz If a controller issues illegal instructions, or if he or she works in a manner which is contrary to regulations and procedures, and if, as a result of his or her actions, an accident results, then he or she may be held criminally liable for those actions. In this case, a so-called Minimum Vectoring Altitude (MVA) or Minimum Radar Vectoring Altitude (MRVA) seems to have been 2,200 feet. This means that this is the lowest safe altitude that a controller may issue while guiding an aircraft to an approach for landing. Once the aircraft is safely established on a published instrument or radar guided approach procedure, then and only then may the aircraft descend further. In this case particular case, the pilot was unable to accept the published VORTAC Approach procedure due to equipment limitations. Therefore, the controller decided to IMPROVISE with the instruction "Descend at pilot's discretion at a standard rate; maintain 1,000 [feet]." (I'm guessing that 1,000 feet is the Minimum Safe Altitude or Minimum Sector Altitude (MSA) for this area.) These minimum altitudes are safety regulations which controllers may never violate. If he or she choses to operate outside these regulations--even in the case of an emergency--then there can be legal consequences. Fortunately, everything worked out well, so there was a commendation. If however, things had worked less well, then questions related to violation of regulations and life endangerment would certainly been raised.

[@cornbread83]

Time to get that Super Hornet pilot on the show. That would be an interesting interview.

[@jaredsterenchock219]

I was on pins and needles for that pilot, but like you said, that controller was a calming voice. Awesome video Mover!!!

[@crazypetec-130fe7]

That's real professionalism.

[@GTthebusiness]

I was at the banquet where this controller received this award. The pilot was also there and spoke and the event. What an amazingly powerful moment. One of the best saves I’ve seen in my career.

[@tomdunn7894]

Mover…..I was a GCI controller. Reminds me of a time when I had 4 F106’s (I am dating myself) take off out of LMT for ACT over the ocean. The weather guys missed it big time and the whole NW went zero/zero in a heartbeat. These guys were over the Pacific with no gas and no place to land. The Master Sgt, serving as my tech, had the bright idea to look for a SAC tanker, and found one in Northern CA. We vectored the guys to the tanker and they got enough gas to land back at LMT, because the fog had lifted…….or they could have landed in Northern CA. I remember the Ops officer coming around to my scope when I was scrambling to find a place for these guys and he said, “Don’t you dare lose those birds Captain, or you will be staying in this man’s Air Force until you pay for them!!!!” …..At which point he offered me a cigarette. (See I told you it was a long tie ago!!

[@hmccall3]

Level headed professionalism on both sides. Props to the controller for bringing their A-game to work that day, and shout out to the pilot for staying extremely calm, like it's any other approach! This one could have ended up very differently. And thanks for the break-down Mover!

[@gregorymaupin6388]

What an awesome job done by both controllers and aviator. Mover, thank you for these breakdowns.

[@couespursuit7350]

Great segment mover. Flying Navy P3's out of the San Francisco Bay Area in the 80's and it was PAR approaches for us, no ILS which seemed crazy considering the type of flying we did. I recall one all nighter several hours off the west coast and spent the on station time calculating and recalculating bingo fuel for arrival into Bay Area/NorCal foggy weather. In the end flew one of my only real weather PAR's to mins, nothing quite like it.

[@PetesGuide]

No ILS at Moffett?! Is that why one Orion crashed into the golf course? I was only lucky enough to be driving south on 101 when a P-3 came in just in front of me, and man was it a beautiful sight! But no ILS, WTF? Please tell me more.

[@John-k2o9r]

Thank You “Mover” for this! Your concise and detailed description of events like this are extremely valuable to non pilots like myself. It gives me a greater respect and appreciation of the men and women in the cockpit and the tower and the heroic decisions they must make. Keep up the great work sir and Thank You for your service. ✝️

[@patrickrebert5011]

Lambert is where they build Hornets, perhaps that explains the controllers' familiarity with how their landings need to be flown.

[@bensaboff1662]

Eagles too. Those guys are probably all very familiar with how fighters fly.

[@Ramit5100]

Salut mon homme! I watch your channel exactly for your feedback and clarification of situations Mover. Great channel content and the guests/stories are top notch. Thanks for serving your Nation, a great friend and ally to us here in Canada. God bless you Mover. 😉

[@bwalker4194]

30-yr retired Indy Center controller here. That controller was SHEIT HOT!!! Almost felt like he had time in type. Used to work the Brush Creek/ Buckeye MOA when it was still a restricted area with a Mach testing leg to the east. We would clear them in, then turn them over to OP freqs while “slightly” monitoring their coms via speakers. Can’t tell you how many times we had to assist join-ups and break-ups, but were happy to help. Empire11 would have been a smoking hole on the front page had it not been for that controller. Kudos to the club!

[@Parawingdelta2]

My father was a Royal Airforce Air Traffic Controller based at an Operational Conversion Unit for the English Electric Lightning (notorious for its tragic fuel usage). Following some dramatic circumstances on one occasion, all the pilots of a flight came to the control tower to thank him after they landed.

[@PetesGuide]

Known for its tragic fuel usage and not its tragic looks? 😮

[@Parawingdelta2]

@PetesGuide It's not the most aesthetically pleasing of aircraft but at certain angles, it looks 'the business'. Someone once said, it only needed wings to separate the position lights.

[@rivierstad3817]

Great video and breakdown of the situation. You should know that these controllers at Lambert are very used to dealing with F-18's and F-15's since they are built on the other side of the airport. They fly out of Lambert everyday. My father was one of the designers of the F-15 and supported the F-18 working on many of the Block upgrades.

[@corvetteworldrob8586]

Awesome breakdown. Kudos that ATC!

[@KevElder]

Was flying a clean Hornet from Cecil Field (Jax FL) to Barksdale LA. Weather was predicted to be VFR with a cold front moving thru. Checked the weather passing Meridian MS as Barksdale was a stretch for fuel in a clean Hornet - was told weather at Barksdale was VFR. So I pressed on. When I got to Barksdale it was just after sunset, 200 over with 1/2 mile viz with blowing snow. No PAR; they would not clear me for a TACAN; and I didn’t have ILS. Fuel wise, I had no options. So I radar mapped the runway and laid a diamond on the approach end for a self-contained approach, and told approach I was flying the ILS. Picked up the field at 200’ and landed. Within 30 min of landing the sky was clear. Did everything by the book and still backed myself into a corner. Flew the Hornet from 1984 - 2006, this was the only time lack of ILS bite me.

[@Glashawk1]

I would emphasize that this particular controller flat out put their “pink card” on the line to get this aircraft down. That phraseology to descend to 1,000 wasn’t by the book and not IAW policy / regs. He basically did a quasi ASR approach without having one published for the airport. That was not just quick thinking on the part of the controller but also knowing his airspace. I know a lot of other controllers either wouldn’t have the knowledge or wouldn’t bother taking the risk of that aircraft hitting an obstruction. But, it’s an emergency and at the end of the day, worked out in their favor. BZ.

[@bgroovin1343]

I enjoyed the break down and comments. Helps with the hard to understand audio as well. Interesting to learn about the ILS issue. Never considered that being a Navy thing, but makes sense with the bidding and contracting. Same issue we had with Blackhawks when they changed the GPS and didn't get certification for GPS navigation. Such a waste. Luckily we had ILS but very, very few had TACAN or DME unless in Europe. PARs were always my favorite. Once that rate of decent was set just fly it in listening to "on course, on glide path".

[@MICTAM41]

Great to hear the pilot be humble and ask for help.

[@Garythefireman66]

That was insane. Great job by both the pilot and the controller

[@McKronenberg]

Empire 11 is a VFA-106 callsign … the NAS Oceana FRS

[@theschoolcop8230]

Was going to comment the same. Home of VFA-103 Jolly Rogers callsign Victory

[@RICHARD-t1u9o]

Thanks for stopping and explaining, I’ve heard the audio before but you gave it a bit more perspective.

[@drbooo]

Pausing and explaining is 1/2 the reason I Love your channel.

[@davepelvin130]

So good Mover! Love the in-the-moment decision making skills those guys showed, plus the balls and the creativity to make it happen!! Great vid

[@sebfettel]

Thank the good Lord

[@mrico523]

Great work from all involved! Never thought this would be a problem for a Hornet 😳. It's so "mil" it forgot how to "civ".

[@loganvelasco1889]

Growlers have a VOR box that can get installed in place of ACLS. I can’t recall if it required an antenna change too which might be why hornets didn’t get the swap on land

[@catastrophic82]

I heard Sully say once, it doesn't matter if you're a 182 or a 380 all you have to do is say "I'm declaring an emergency"

[@Slayer-33]

Awesome lol, great video. The way you paused wasn't intrusive very smooth ty Mover.

[@brianhenderson2006]

Glad you included the SAR map capability of the air to ground radar.

[@garybaldwin1061]

That was a great story! Your break down was appreciated.

[@iTz_JLAR]

That is wild 😳. Add to the mix that most fuel gauges are +/- 200 lbs and that is super scary

[@andymontemayor175]

Great video Mover appreciate your thoughts!

[@AzPoolguy]

Outstanding Mover. You’re correct, ATC can be a lifesaver. Fly Navy

[@jaredsterenchock219]

Just HAD TO listen to it again. Awesome!!!!

[@tele767]

A VORTAC has a TACAN channel. The St. Louis VORTAC TACAN channel is 121. The controller didn’t understand this. VORTAC is a facility consisting of two components, VOR and TACAN, which provides three individual services: VOR azimuth, TACAN azimuth and TACAN distance (DME) at one site.

[@CWLemoine]

Yeah I noticed there was a bit of confusion with him calling it a TACAN approach and then giving him the VOR channel after.

[@Patriot407]

The ATC guy seems to be very professional and formative, the F-18 pilot he might have lucked out, it probably could’ve been worse if it was a different ATC. In my opinion, the ATC‘s are the best friends of the pilots in the air, but sometimes just things work perfectly. By the way, great video mover!

[@Glashawk1]

TACAN ch 121 for KSTL.

[@Aviate360]

Looking real podcast radio show host. Awesome! Love the look love the channel love what you do. Thank you

[@TheEmperorOfWei]

Empire is indeed an Oceana callsign for the VFA-106 Gladiators. It's their travel callsign.

[@SK43853]

thank you MOVER, great break down !!!!

[@dwhonan]

Great breakdown! For those interested in hearing about the controller side of comms with ATC, check out the Opposing Bases podcast. (Military aviation tie-in: Host AG is a retired Army Chinook and King Air pilot in addition to having been a controller for over a decade.)

[@deantait8326]

Every time Iland at KSNA I think of your comments about the 5,500’ runway.

[@benjaminrichey278]

That ATC controller inspired confidence in me sitting on the couch!

[@SailorMan495]

Glad it all worked out but it would have been much easier and safer if the controller had simply provided the TACAN channel number which is listed on all civilian charts and plates. I’m surprised they don’t have that training.

[@saker6121]

Sounds like neither one of them caught it, more the controller since he had the chart. No doubt a very stressful and heavy workload. As a non-pilot when he said VORTAC, I was thinking 'oh he's good now'

[@speedbird300]

Flew PAR a few times in a light twin, pretty interesting and a lot more fun when there’s plenty of fuel on board.

[@scottk9806]

T75 (STL approach) is top notch. Love working with them

[@johnnunn8688]

Don’t know is this helps but…..Gas turbines use less fuel at altitude. You use more fuel getting up there but then you are in the cruise and using much less. When you descend, you have the throttles at idle (generally) and flight idle rpm, (not a clue about the Hornet) which may be 75-80% rpm. Basically sipping fuel. On the approach, you will need to throttle up and down a little but it’s certainly a lot less than say, a run in and break, to land. Hope that helps. (Not a jockey but an engine tech of many moons.)

[@chili_92]

G’day Mover, quick question: Roughly how much fuel/time is the difference between minimum fuel and emergency fuel?

[@CWLemoine]

In the T-38 and F-16 it was 200 lbs difference. Maybe 10 minutes depending on altitude.

[@chili_92]

@@CWLemoine not real long then. Thanks!

[@danlemke6407]

I think the people that get bugged by the stoppage is people who have watched too many videos that just are just parasitic on others accomplishments and only stomp all over the video to opine their feelings. it is much different when it is being used as a teaching tool, such as yours to be informative. Anyways, I'm glad you read enough of the comments to have heard the gripes as it means you are engaged in your channel, a big plus. But you didn't need me to tell you that, so please... Carry on and thanks.

[@hangpilot1200]

Blows my mind that a $50million dollar cutting-edge jet didn't have ILS in the day; government efficiency at its best!

[@mbmann3892]

Dafaq didn't have ILS on a Mil plane in 2012...wow

[@blakewardUS]

My current home town. STL area controllers have heavy F-18 exposure with production test flights and active duty cross country flights

[@AviationAccidentsYouTube]

Great video, Mover!

[@D95SI420]

Wow i caught this one early. The controllers kicked ass on this one.

[@AugustusTitus]

For New Orleans, they should setup an emergency approach using the river or lake that allows for an aircraft to descend to mast top height and make a very low VFR approach. OTOH, coordinating such with the river/harbor masters would take some work. The lowest I've locally seen (not in NOLA) is a ceiling at 50-100 ft, which is a given that the airport is closed unless CAT3 autoland.

[@gusm2752]

That was great. Holy cow , I have trouble with the TV remote. 😁👍🇺🇸

[@whathasxgottodowithit3919.]

I quiet enjoyed PAR approaches, I have also done a few practice PAR's with no comms using the mike key

[@MrZagorfly]

The A10 has an ILS I concur that the F18 is incredible that has one only for the carrier recoveries.

[@joeb5316]

I don't think any story of people working together to avert a bad result is too old to be told. Even those of us not in aviation can be inspired to think outside of the box or go above and beyond your responsibilities to help others out, and people who do should always be lauded.

[@charlesmaurer6214]

Have to agree not having the ability to use standard civilian systems in military aircraft is insane. Yes you want your own system (for security) but the basic ability in emergency to use a civilian strip is not only useful like this but even in war time for alternate runways and captured airports for forward deployment. Who made that choice with modern electronics and software deserves a major dressing down.

[@jimallen8186]

clarify for the average joe watching, climb in a bingo profile as you burn less fuel per range if you’re in a jet. there’s the balance point in terms of climb cost versus high cruise savings. But, big But here, range does not change for piston propellers except to catch favorable winds or avoid unfavorable. if you’re a piston, you don’t gain for climbing (but you still pay the climb penalty).

[@jimallen8186]

(you do get some climb penalty back in descent, but not total, entropy and all)

[@loganvelasco1889]

Hey that was my squadron lol. 300 was a good jet

[@johnb7490]

Serria Hotel to both guys, great job

[@johnreed8844]

PAR's are kind of fun. They make me feel cooler than I actually am.

[@1919champ]

Outstanding!

[@datrem4197]

Always amazing, that military aircraft do not have really simple equipment like ILS on them. I understand that a fighter only has so much room. But an ILS could be put into a centerline pod for training missions. This would save pilots, planes and people on the ground. SAFTY for all should be the government primary responsibility. ILS is a very well understood system. Cross country flights are important training missions and pilot development. Therefore an ILS training pod for all fighters should be developed. Give the program to a hungry like GA, scientific Systems company… and tell Boeing to play nice and make it happen. Same direction should be also given to Lockheed Martin. Do not let Boeing or Lockheed Martin develop just direct them to get it done. Stop wasting money and save money and equipment. I worked avionics for two fighters programs so I know the budget games the big boys play. Military is not blameless when it comes to budget games and equipment systems.

[@nyandyn]

Comment sections on other KZbin videos covering this incident were just pure cancer. Hope your viewership is a bit more enlightened.

[@CWLemoine]

What were they saying?

[@brettwhitten2046]

Man, my butt was pucked just listening lol. I love how you break it down during the video thanks for all you do mover.

[@nyandyn]

Firstly, all the usual blame. Apparently the Navy is at fault for procuring jets without VOR/ILS and the pilot should not have let himself in that low fuel situation. Secondly, all the misconceptions about radionavigation systems. Too numerous to list here.

[@Montana_Outdoor_Adventures]

@nyandyn We are.

[@yourhandlehere1]

I did some TAC Air T-shirts many years ago.

[@Fox3-Luck]

Great Vid Mover

[@gjones9842]

Go to lambert. That’s where the plane was built. 😊

[@overhead18]

"I need no delays or I will jump out" doesn't have the same impact when I say it from a 172.

[@gundamblade]

welcome back mover

[@CWLemoine]

Where was I?

[@johnnunn8688]

@@CWLemoine😂🤣, you don’t know? I’m getting REALLY old, so have an excuse.

[@major__kong]

My aviation handheld radio has more non-precision and precision approach capability than a Super Hornet. Sad and funny at the same time. By the way, I knew the base ops commander at WPAFB who told me the C-5 guys there were flying with Garmin handhelds back in the day because they had more nav capability than the C-5's systems at the time.

[@AlecThilenius]

Hey Mover, big fan of your channel! Question for you. Fighters have super accurate IRS, as well as HUDs and/or HMDs, ground radars, often terrain height data (though idk how often that's exposed to the pilot as 'synthetic vision' like commercial avionics), PLM, TGPs and so on. With all that tech, it seems weird to me a fighter can't get through clouds. It has the equipment onboard to build it's own very high precision approach, with onboard radar monitoring/TCAS. Is this just a "because the FAA doesn't like unpublished approaches in IMC" kind of thing, or am I missing something more fundamental?

[@johnaikema1055]

well done.

[@thevictoryoverhimself7298]

Can you turn off one engine to slow fuel burn rate at the expense of performance and extend your flight? Neither a twin engine nor a jet pilot. Of course this wouldn’t be ideal but is it a potential tool in a “well I have to try something” emergency? In a prop of course this would create a ton of pointless drag but in a jet I don’t think it would change much but make your potential TWR lower.

[@PilotUlli]

Interesting! Could an F/A-18 glide? If so, what is the lift-to-drag ratio? 🤔

[@CWLemoine]

You could glide, but you can't land with both engines flamed out.

[@MrZagorfly]

Temperature 15 dew point 15?? That is clearly FOG!

[@soupfork2105]

I was just wondering about this. Saw this covered on another channel where they showed the flight path over a map. While I understand the need for the diversion from Scott AFB to Lambert due to weather, I sort of wondered if it wasn't an unneccesary risk to direct a jet that is critically low on fuel straigh over the heart of downtown St. Louis? Was dropping down to St. Louis Downtown Airport not a safer and closer option? It has a 7,000ft runway. Or was the weather there just as bad?

[@ThorOdinson-s8m]

I wouldn’t give complainers the time of day. All they do is complain.

[@kdavidsmith1]

It would be cool to see a 74Gear x Mover video.

[@jimallen8186]

How about that Hornet-One approach? Have we forgotten about such “options”?

[@CWLemoine]

Maybe watch the whole video?

[@jimallen8186]

also, with distances read, 300 ft above fld elev per mile from field

[@LimoMikeA]

You would think they would charts for where they assemble the plane. They test them before delivery.

[@johnnunn8688]

What?

[@LimoMikeA]

@@johnnunn8688The F/A18s and F15s are assembled and then tested before delivery from that airport

[@saabpoppa]

Converting a lat/long to decimal degrees is a pain in the ass on a laptop and on the ground, so lucky situation that he gave him the data in the right format! In an emergency fuel situation in the Hornet, could you shut down one engine and double your powered flying time? Since the engines are centerline thrust, is the controllability appreciably affected? Do you train for single-engine approaches - in the sim at least?

[@CWLemoine]

No, you don't shut down an engine in a min/emergency fuel situation. Yes, we train single engine approaches (real life and sim).

[@karlbrundage7472]

Curious what the protocol is regarding ground-servicing on military aircraft that land at a field with no military activity. Does the pilot taxi up to the Jet-A pumps and swipe his card, or does AirLant send a team of maintainers and a fuel truck to service and retrieve the airframe?

[@CWLemoine]

Usually you can just go to the FBO and use the gov fuel card.

[@einfachmert2861]

could you react to Turkish Drones or Unmanned Fighter Aircrafts like Kizilelma, Anka 3, Akinci? Especially the Anka 3 is really interesting now. Thankss

[@RagsHSC-7]

Hey mover, hope you're having a good day 👊😎 First, don't sweat the small stuff. There's people in this world that just get up hating it by the choices that they made. The reply that I get from this will be those. They can go kick rocks or kick that can down another road. Anybody that knows you or watches your YT knows what it's all about. Explaining it and giving the what for. 🪽 Yeah that was tight,, I'm just an Old rotor head and I've had the hold hold for incoming with issues but normally I'll come in behind The air bases or land in the back and stay out of the way of the squadrons flying in. That was awesome work! He was really good at staying calm and giving that pilot an opportunity to know that he is all that there is in the world at that moment. That's the best way I could describe it. Keep doing what you're doing and how you doing it. It will bring the nuggets at the par. God bless ya🕊️❤️🕊️

[@LoneWolf051]

I think civi fields need to be equipped with military systems alongside their regular civilian systems, and train the controllers train on those military systems, just in case situations like these happen.

[@SailorMan495]

They are equipped. There is a TACAN there but ATC didn’t know that the military tunes TACAN by channel number. That channel number is clearly listed on a civil charts and plates. The presenter seemed confused on this point as well.

[@frederf3227]

It's expensive and a pain to get permission to use that part of the spectrum. There are no ICLS or ACLS civilian systems at all afaik. Lots of places have TACAN but that doesn't help when a precision approach is required. The normal solution is to have PAR approaches to handle the needs of customers without the normal civil gear but guess what it's expensive to meet the high training requirements for PAR controllers plus the equipment. The solution is for the DoD and FAA to get together and get these tac fighters certified for precision RNAV approaches with single pilot. As long as radio nav aids and active controller guidance are the solutions there will be severe budgetary pressure to reduce these systems.

[@dortywings7217]

I always thought "allweather-airplane" means "all weather airplane". My idea of it went as far as hitting the enemy reliably & effectively in all weather conditions. Very intresting, I'm just learning the TACAN and Low-Vis-Landing stuff in the DCS F/A-18

[@CWLemoine]

Where does the F/A-18 land after hitting the enemy...?

[@dortywings7217]

@@CWLemoine ...in the advertisement trap!!

[@CWLemoine]

I don't know what that means. But the carrier has an ACLS which is why the Hornet doesn't have a civilian ILS, which makes it an all weather aircraft in combat.

[@dortywings7217]

@@CWLemoine I read that "all-weather"thing all over the books and in videogames before the internet-age, it was advertised with many 4th-Gen jets and the AH-64 if I remember correctly. Thanks for claryfying the ILS, ACLS capability! I always watch the M&G show and your videos, keep up the good work!!

[@markymarknj]

Wouldn't the STL VORTAC have TACAN? At a VORTAC, aren't the VHF Omni Range and TACAN located together? IIRC, VORTAC=VHF Omni Range + TACAN.

[@CWLemoine]

Yes. It's unclear why the controller thought it was VHF only. My guess is the plate he had didn't include the Tacan channel.

[@markymarknj]

@@CWLemoine that makes sense, as I don't remember FAA plates having the TACAN channel. Thanks!

[@SailorMan495]

@@CWLemoineplates and charts do include the TACAN channel number. Apparently nobody involved in this incident knew that.

[@CWLemoine]

@@SailorMan495 do civilian Jepp charts include it?

[@AmericanAbsolute]

Always wondered about the climb when trying to get to higher altitude to save fuel in thinner air density.. Doesn't the climb burn even more fuel than maintaining ? Just curious..

[@jamesmterrell]

Awesome

[@jinzhang8241]

Can anyone familiar with flight avionics explain why Fleet Superhornets can’t be programmed for a civilian ILS approach in addition to the ACLS? Won’t the programming be simple enough and not entail any need for additional hardware?