Cyberpunk 2077: What Made It FAIL? | Asmongold Reacts to Upper Echelon Gamers

[@HeiLong24]

programmer here. your articulation on WHY QA is an actual job, the necessary skill sets, and required nuance is SO on point. I appreciate this reaction video so much.

[@joee7452]

Part of my job has morphed in writing internal scripts and apps. I make middle management and project managers work QA for me. They are my forced to be my first line QA. My code and apps is by default set to a confidential requirement that that requires a certain employment level to use. So the managers and the pm for the project have to QA it first. Once they go through it and either are unable to break it or have any issues they can find with it, I change the requirement so I can hand it to the QA for the groups I am writing it for to test it. One dept manager complained and my answer was I am not a programmer, I am IT. I am a Infrastructure/Network Engineer. If I can be kind enough to help you and your department, you can help me by testing it out first. I ended up being a go person for these internal things because I decided to write things to make my life easier and was dumb enough to post my code up on our internal github.

[@StructuredBASIC]

You should comment that on the original video, not the reaction.

[@zetterburger]

It’s not complicated, program yourself a brain

[@MeltonCrest]

The hell it is, the fact alone that you call it "Quality Assurance" when in every serious industry it's Quality CONTROL says it all.

[@MINIMAN10000]

The only thing that stood out to me was his surprise at mismanagement. Everyone needs to understand that management is just as untrained as everybody else. Management does not know what they are doing. Best case they are hands off and the job can continue. Worst case they fire the people who keep the company alive.

[@kgjung2310]

As someone who used to work as a tester, it's important to understand that just because you find a bug doesn't mean it will actually get fixed. Sometimes it's so minor or so rare that taking the time and money to fix it and taking the risk at breaking something else is not worth it. Ultimately the decision isn't up to you; it's up to others. That decision can also be affected by the desire to deploy the product on time rather than delay to fix this or that bug. So when you see a bug in a game, it's not necessarily one that was missed. That being said, deploying a product brimming to the rim with bugs would be counter productive to actually appealing to the customer and meeting various marketing goals, etc. Also, no court is going to uphold a contract that has an illegal purpose or goal contrary to public policy at least in the US.

[@Decap1tator]

i Vouch For that, ive tested a few old games

[@spud69g]

R.I.P. Midway for rushing out buggy games and not meeting investors return expectations. Former QA/TSA

[@Decap1tator]

@@spud69g RIP

[@arcadius3257]

So in short "Not my fault that we are incompetent and cant fix something without breaking it, if you don't like that a game you spend your hard earned money on has issues then thats your problem because we aren't going to do our job by fixing it. Consumers should spend money to fix our mistakes, not us."

[@JOJOSSTAR1]

@@Decap1tator +1. Asmongold should know better than point finger at testers. Everybody in the industry knows that If you encounter any bugs in a AAA game its a thoughtful decision from the producers to leave it in there. For whatever reason. Most usually, "We'll fix it in an update". The only issues that usually escape quality assurance/control are low probability game breaking bugs or crashes we call "show stoppers". And not a lot of em gets through. Another thing I'd add to this is about older generation console builds. You really think the producers didn't know the game couldn't run on xbox 360 when it shipped? They still release it. That has nothing to do with QA. It just shows they didn't care about the state of the game and decided to release it anyway and handle the damage control the best they could.

[@askmiller]

The IT group at the company I work for was put under these sort of metrics, where they're evaluated by how quickly they close tickets. What it results in is since THEY are the ones who determine when the ticket is closed, they close tickets early and tell you to open a new one if it's not actually resolved yet. It made things objectively worse, but the idiots who monitor the statistics think things are going great.

[@FinalDragoon63]

They want the metrics but don't understand whats important to parse from those metrics, but I suppose if you're looking to flip and sell the company you get to tell the next idiot in line shiny things like "Look at our resolution time and look at how happy our clients are."

[@emsee3021]

@d4rkshad0w This doesn't make sense though, you have a team trying to identify whose responsibility the ticket is (Incident management process if you follow ITIL) and then resolver teams who don't take ownership and/or wrong assignments. Who exactly should do the job?

[@emsee3021]

@@Lithaleon My experience of something similar was the IT service desk contracted to do the work (outsourced) was charging per ticket, so they implment shitty customer focussed practices like you described and pad the figures. And then the people paying the bill haven't got the knowledge or insight to the specifics so just pay it

[@malikfoxen2045]

@@Lithaleon Reminds me of the company I work for. Customers think we're a joke because of it... those of us that actually want to fix the problem have our hands tied by our position in the hierarchy, the deparment we're in and what our bosses will let us get away with when it comes to stepping outside of our wheelhouse when it comes to fixing our product. Otherwise its yet another ticket to another department that will take days for them to get to.

[@nuknukisdead]

Yep, happens to every company when they try to scale up. They always add measurable metrics arbitrarily determined based on no feedback or data from people who actually do the fucking jobs and think as long as they meet those numbers, shit is good.

[@Gusto3791]

As an (industrial) software developer, you’re absolutely right about experience level directly affecting diagnostic time.

[@ryanberman5314]

It's the same for my job. First year it would take me 15 to 20 min to diagnose some problems with our industrial saws and lathes. Now after 6 years all I have to do is pretty much just glance at the machine

[@scottbecker4367]

It's the same for most diagnostic jobs. Medical doctors are the same way. The less experience, the longer it's going to take to figure out what's wrong with you.

[@jaleshere]

This is common sense.

[@vaelen-2889]

I have worked in QA for about 20 years, and I can definetly tell you that the daily quota is a dangerous thing. This is one of the first things you learn in the field. But this "rule" does not only apply for QA, it can be found everywhere, where Target can be measured... Sales, packing, outbound calls and much more. Do not ever use it...

[@LagunaLeonhart]

I've worked in QA about half that time and knew this very early in my career. I had a friend working for Team 17 in the UK and they had a target for number of bugs found. It's so stupid. As you improve the product the number of bugs remaining will decrease and be more difficult to find.

[@manolkalinov2195]

I worked at a company where this rule was spun around in a different way and I actually loved - your bonus is tied to the amount and seriousness of bugs, which are found 'after' release. So, the fewer bugs there are after release in your area of testing, the larger percent of bonus you get. But that's not something you can apply to a junior team...

[@Jonsoner]

I'm currently working on customer support. We have daily solved cases, managed tickets and positive vs negative reviews quotas. It's moronic, we are requiered to process a large amount of cases per day (200), solve half of them (100) and get over 80% in positive reviews. So according to management, we need to work fast, efficiently to close tickets, and be nice. However in reality all the request contradict each other. If we work fast, we are giving the bare minimum response, so tickets will be re-opened and clients will be dissatisfied. If we focus on positive reviews, we will waste time with hundreds of extra unnecessary responses and begging for good reviews, so less cases closed and slower process obviously. And if we focus on closing cases, agents look for ways to set the ticket as unable to be reopened. So merging with other cases, exploiting the system to close the case without being visible. Changing the ticket information so the customer doesn't receive the automatic "please rate us email" and they don't come back. It's a shitfest truly. Fuck stupid metrics.

[@thenarrator1921]

@@Jonsoner I worked in calls, and previously in e-mails, chat. The best of us basically knew how to cheat in a pleasing way to the customer, else hide the crime. As a psychology student with interest in HR, it's so hilariously easy and cheap to do R&D on metrics and productivity yet client companies are usually so stuck up their own ass they'd rather waste money on high turnover rates than to spend 5 minutes thinking why their agents are so pissed at them.

[@lareolanKFP]

@@Jonsoner Yeah, I worked in a call center for Comcast Cable for a while (before I got too fed up with the BS and left). Most of the callers were calling either to complain that they have an outage, or to discuss their bill because they couldn't pay it or were behind on payments.... That was like 95% of all the calls I was dealing with. Yet, I kept being repeatedly chastised by my idiot manager for not trying to push Showtime and HBO on them! Because apparently when you can't pay your bill and are looking to reduce your services, or are really upset because the cable you DO pay for is not being provided (due to outage), of course you want to buy HBO! The stupidity of this is mindboggling. And don't even talk to me about call durations, because we had to do warm transfers whenever we had to transfer a person, which meant I was waiting on hold for 10+ minutes each time, but I was supposed to finish each call in under 5 minutes somehow!

[@kaiyote3357]

Been following Upper Echelon for almost 4 years now. The dude does his research rly well and has pretty much always been right/ahead of the curve at catching onto trends and sussy stuff in gaming/finance/online culture in general. On top of that he actually keeps up with the new info that comes to light after he posts videos, and the few times he's been incorrect/wrong he makes follow up videos or posts pointing out how he was wrong and correcting himself appropriately. This is why I generally take the information he presents at face value.

[@LittleZee-f4l]

Eh, he does good investigative stuff, absolutely, but all of his more "opinion piece" stuff I find myself rolling my eyes at, more often than not.

[@kaiyote3357]

@@LittleZee-f4l I understand what you're getting at and I agree for the most part, he can give off some sorta '16 gamergate vibes a bit at times (probably sort of an uncharitable way to describe his political disposition overall but it's the best way I can describe it). I just keep in mind that his personal disposition is just that if/when I do watch any of his more opinion based stuff, and as a result I don't always agree with him on that stuff. However, keeping that in mind, I think he does a pretty good job overall recognizing and reigning in his own personal biases most of the time, which makes me respect him even more. Also, the past year or so he seemed to realize he was starting to trend more towards pseudo-political crap, or at least getting into a lot of politics adjacent topics, and as a result he seems to have refocused his efforts on more objective investigative content since then.

[@LittleZee-f4l]

@@kaiyote3357 Thats good, the investigative stuff is definitely where his strengths lie. But the mid-2010 mindset is def something I noticed. Last time I really did a deep dive and gave him a chance, I watched a few videos were he talks about casual gamers, and he came up with this really convoluted and strange definition of a casual gamer just so he could continue to rip on them, when most people at that time had already moved on and realised you need a healthy helping of casual and hardcore gamers to have a game survive. And it was just strange. But, maybe I'll give him another go

[@AnimeGamertroll]

Upper Echelon cant review games. Check his Doom Eternal review. That video is still so bad.

[@RealFunnyCinema]

@@Bladezeromus His review was super agressive towards people who liked the game. Then he complained about Marauder being "too hard and unfair" while showing the clip fighting him point-blank range with a fucking rocket launcher.

[@gamingisscience]

I was really disappointed when I played Cyberpunk for the first time. It was my one game that I got for Christmas and it broke my heart. Going back to it now it is an awesome game! I'm glad CDPR continued to fix their mess. I can see that they meant well and care about what they are doing.

[@DarokTheMaul]

I agree with your sentiment. But please do keep in mind that it's the CEOs and the boardroom heads that ruined your Christmas not the developers.

[@GenericUsername-qp1ww]

I'd hardly call CDPR refusing to give us the RPG they lied about it being an 'awesome game'

[@Real_MisterSir]

There is a single way to make bug quotas work well. You have to segment bugs into separate values: Small bug : value 1 (texture clipping, hitbox misallignment, etc) Medium bug : value 10 (easy-to-access wall clipping/fall through map, 1st person item/character related consistent glitches, etc) Major bug : value 20 (gameplay-intervening glitches, consistently repeatable malfunctions, consistent heavy performance drops, etc) This way, testers are actively incentivized to focus on the major bugs and issues, because they would more quickly fill the quota. Instead of mindlessly grinding 100 simple bugs, they can focus on maybe 3 major bugs and 4 medium bugs and they're done. 7 meaningful bugs vs 100 meaningless bugs. Makes perfect sense and should be the gold standard for all QA teams. It astounds me that it isn't.

[@3adgamd3r]

Tbh this entire situation is a great example of why you don’t let your accountant design your parachute

[@Real_MisterSir]

@@teipkep I certainly agree that this should and for all intents and purposes easily could have been avoided just through internal testing. But having worked as a playtester myself, you'd be amazed how much escapes the devs, for a multitude of reasons. Often devs will work on singular aspects at a time, they will work individual sequences, and usually at the end near launch they are under immense crunch and literally don't have the time to actually play the game they're developing. They can only afford to playtest small sequences at a time to ensure what they're implementing is working as intended, but they literally don't have the time to do double takes, longer tests, multiple sequences, with multiple pc setups, etc. It's why there is always a fight against "crunch" in the gamedev industry, because it's inhumane and absurd how much workload is pushed onto developers and artists during these periods. Usually the more cruch a game has seen, the more issues there will be in the end product - no matter what you do and who you hire, this is almost always a telltale sign of poor management. Especially when a multi-year production still ends in crunch, that's a sign of poor management and lack of direction. So in these cases, almost all of the QA relies on the external test reports, and when they too are mismanaged, then it all blows up in flames.

[@Real_MisterSir]

@@teipkep Yes something did indeed go horribly wrong, hence why the game came out so horribly and CDPR spent a good year throwing around vague blame and never addressed the core issue of management neglect and internal misinformation (like disregarding feedback and sticking to unrealistic launch targets etc to appease investors and catch xmas sales and all that good stuff that nobody cares about except those who earn the fat checks. And also to be clear, there are some things worthy of note: Usually in game development, final polish and ensuring the game runs smoothly on the intended devices happens in the latter stage of the game's dev pipeline, since a lot of the early builds focus on getting the final package ready before optimization can be done. This means even for a game with 7 years of dev time put into it, its still only the last year or 6 months that are more intensely focused on bug fixing and optimization. Often times through the core development period things get scrapped, changed, replaced, then changed again throughout the development process, so if you focus on optimization and final build quality early on, then most of your work will end up wasted - and it will also severely slow down your workflow in general. So while the developers do get to play parts of the game throughout the build process, usually what they play are internal builds with limited features where it's understood that the game isn't intended to run well yet, so through most of its development life the game is expected to be in a fairly unoptimized state anyways, and is thus run on almost exclusively on high end hardware (since obviously nobody wants to do dev work with bad hardware). So while there might be hints that some things could be demanding or cause issues on lower end hardware, usually the devs aren't in a position to tell the true scale of this, until the final build is prepped, which often happens in the last year or 6 months of dev work - and it's also always here that crunch time is at its peak, so developers have very little time to do anything but work. Even if some devs do end up playing the late pre-release build of the game for some time, like say 10 hours combined, they may or may not run into some of the severe issues, and when they report their findings it's up to dev management to; 1. take them seriously, and 2. forward the findings to the people in charge with marketing and launch schedules and investor appeasement to not only listen to what is said, but also double verify with the QA teams (who could even be testing a slightly different build). In this case, as far as has been made public, the QA reportings were quite different from other info, and it's likely that someone in charge of marketing and launch scheduling didn't fully grasp the scope of everything, what game builds were used where, who to prioritize, and how to properly manage this whole thing. It's not an easy job either to manage a major AAA publication and ensure every internal and external part is talking together properly.. All this said, CDPR (as a whole) could and should have seen this nuke of a launch coming from miles away and done something about it. But they didn't. And that's ultimately all we can judge them for. The lack of integrity to acknowledge the shoddy state of the game pre release. That blame is 100% on the upper management.

[@Real_MisterSir]

@@Thormedor I'm not sure you understand the typical workflow of game testing. I may be wrong, but your answer doesn't align with the experience I have from the industry. Typically, testing is segmented into different groups depending on what their tasks are, and playtesting is carried out as a mixture of legitimate gaming and alongside that also actively searching for bugs and breakable game mechanics. It's not one or the other. The issue is that it's generally too easy and convenient to fill a standard quota by searching for minor bugs that either have patterns or just are predictable, you can more easily hunt minor bugs and you're less incentivized to investigate the potential for a major bug that isn't discovered as easily. The feedback loop promotes quick search and less investigation, as investigation doesn't lead to a faster job done (for the same pay regardless). For example, I personally have spent about 5 hours playtesting the Arasaka tower (not for CDPR, just as a hobby) and I found over 5 major glitch potentials that were easily accessible for players given the right circumstances and equipped items, and many more less accessible glitches. And this was 1 year post launch, most of which has been fixed as a clear result of my testings (didn't take more than a week after I made it public for it to be patched). But this type of digging isn't worthwhile when your quota deems all reportings equal. I could just as well have spent 10 minutes hunting for whatever random bug/glitch that would only ever be of minor inconvenience, but it would still fill my quota to the same degree as the major one that could be game breaking. Especially NPC interactivity can be daunting to repeat over and over to press issues in the coding and potential oversights in the dev work, but why spend the extra hour or two to discover a bug that could be entirely game breaking - when the unintended flickering light in a random apartment room is just as "worthy" of a reporting on the reward scale?

[@googlyeyedsenpai5870]

​@@Real_MisterSirThis right here. I worked QA for an airbag company and we had metrics like that too and what it lead to was people wanted to bang through whatever model they could fly through fairly quickly. So some people would inspect hundreds a day while some like myself would do a couple dozen a day. Luckily after some push back they dropped the system.

[@alr1242]

I actually started re-playing Cyberpunk over this past week, and it has been surprisingly fun. I've owned it since release and almost beat it a few times, but this time around has been really good. Every side mission seems to actually work as intended and it seems like they've added more dialogue options throughout the game, so it isn't always just shoot, loot and repeat. I think the Raytracing needs some optimizations though.

[@Alero2k4]

I actually did the same thing, updated and started fresh three days ago and it’s been great so far!

[@alxy9177]

I played hundreds of hours on release day within a couple weeks and honestly, barely had any bugs, and none were game breaking. Idk if it's just because I got lucky or a good pc, but man the game, world and writing is insanely good. People keep shitting on the game saying its trash. The game itself is a masterpiece... I will agree with the fact that it was undeniably really buggy and released too early. Even though I didn't personally habe many issues. And also releasing on ps4/xbox one was straight up scummy and stupid. But the game itself? It deserves much more credit. We can't disregard the tremendous work that went in that game.

[@SolidSnake240]

I'm gonna wait until the final big update before I touch it again. It looks alot better than it did at launch.

[@frankytanky5076]

@@SolidSnake240 Same waiting till all updates are done, and it's on sale for a ridiculous price before I buy this. It's still nowhere near what they originally promised but it has improved a lot apparently.

[@douwehuysmans5959]

Raytracing is just extremely demanding. I managed to get 40 fps on max settings including raytracing on a 3060 with 1080p monitor.

[@destroyerinazuma96]

The thought "we made Witcher 3 so Cyberpunk can't go wrong" is like me saying "I'm kinda fluent in Japanese that means Hindi will be a breeze!"

[@Heatwave9000]

It sold nearly 20 million copies. Hardly a failure...

[@AlexHonger-fj3nx]

It would have sold over 40 million copies if the launch of the game wasn't so awful... First impressions matter and I know a lot of people that haven't bought it for that reason and they don't have an interest in playing a 4+ year old game just because its batter NOW, it's already old content in many people's eyes.

[@MattBrain9336]

I'm also a programmer, and finding bugs just before release happens quite a lot For minor bugs (cosmetic / does not stop the software from working as intended), even if found just before release/delivery they can be pended to be fixed later (marked as "known bugs") For moderate bugs (causes software to work NOT as intended), it is either - Fixed quickly + spot check for side effect (e.g. do overtime to fix + test only a percentage of the related test cases chosen at random) - Pended to be fixed later (if the probability of causing the bug is low, affects low number of users or does not affect the "major" software features) For major bugs (affects major software features, prevents users from using software or causes software to crash), the correct action is to NOT release it

[@LagunaLeonhart]

Qualified QA analyst with 10 years+ experience here.. Number of bugs per day is a ridiculous metric to use for any company. Team 17 do this too. The nature of defects is that some are more difficult to reproduce and any quality QA takes the time to minimise the steps required to reproduce the bug to help developers isolate it, this can take time. Also it's a WELL KNOWN INDUSTRY FACT that a product will become more robust through the bug fixing process. This obviously makes it more difficult to find bugs. Do they expect testers to physically take a hammer to the game to see if it breaks as it becomes harder to find in game bugs? It's utterly idiotic and I wouldn't work at any company with such a thought process. I could write paragraphs why this is a bad idea but a lot of it feels so obvious so I can't respect any developer who thinks this is an acceptable approach. P.s. yes adding more manpower late in the project is a bad idea according to Brook's Law

[@TheHordeQ]

Maybe you missed it but Team17 uses this QA company too. It was on the employer list page.

[@LagunaLeonhart]

@@TheHordeQ my friend worked for team 17 so not in this case

[@fisharepeopletoo9653]

Who QA's the QAs?!?!

[@TheHordeQ]

@@LagunaLeonhart Strange. I haven't heard of them doing in house QA for at least a decade. Well, either way it's funny you mentioned them having the same practices and then it turns out they also hired a company that acts the same way.

[@LagunaLeonhart]

@@TheHordeQ well T17 are recruiting for a QA training analyst right now lol

[@harleygator]

No Man's Sky released unfinished, but not broken - it's main problem was that there was hardly anything to do, but at least you could do whatever it was. Cyberpunk had the opposite problem, really - lots to do, none of which worked.

[@eureka0521]

The problems with Cyberpunk wont be patched, I've said this so many times since launch. The biggest issues arent the bugs but the core design of the game itself. No patch will "fix" that. The game is what it is.

[@timekeeper2538]

@RiptideRambo The core design of the game is the same on PC, meaning it fuckin' sucks. How do you look at the NPC ai and seriously consider it acceptable? GTA 3 has more functional game design than this heap!

[@christophermudgett9868]

I've worked in video game quality assurance for over 8 years. Daily bug quotas are a very common practice in the industry. However it is up to management to inform the testers that they should be focusing on issues of a higher priority such as blockers or priority zero or priority one bugs

[@knineknights]

People need to remember what CDPR did to last gen console owners by hiding the state of the game before release while taking pre orders. There us no excuse for what they did.

[@ML-yn9yu]

yep, that is why I cant get behind any of their simps or any simps for this game. CDPR higher ups legit hid the state of the game for preorders.

[@stevenviljoen160]

They also went out of their way to keep reviews silent for as long as possible so it would not influence sales. That is one of the scummiest things they could have done and they never hesitated

[@ML-yn9yu]

@@stevenviljoen160 yep That's why I cant even pick up the game to finish it. The suppressing reviews until almost the last minute and then giving the reviewers the best version of the game. is the most scummy thing I've seen in a video game company do.

[@TeleologicalConsistency]

I began my career as QA for a major corporation's dev team. This is precisely the same thing that plagues most teams. Middle management and executives want to look good to their superiors so they come up with all sorts of ways to show that their teams have done work. Part of it is to generate reports on how many "tickets", "bugs", or "requests" that were done by the team and of course those that have the least number of tickets "resolved" are given bad yearly reviews and disciplined. This creates a perverse incentive for people to generate and "resolve" as many tickets as they can in order to up their numbers to look good on paper and ends up wasting resources and time on padding their numbers instead of actually focusing on resolving key issues of the business.

[@evanporter5610]

Upper Echelon seems exactly like a modern journalist. He sounds and gives off the vibes of a real journalist. Bringing interesting things to light just to do it.

[@TheHalogen131]

This is a fantastic channel and it's a shame he doesn't have more following. He actually does important work.

[@Lobexx]

@@tronosphere so actual journalists are infallible?

[@butter1339]

You should see his doom eternal video

[@tcymay97]

People keep saying that on PC its ok during release. I would like to clarify, IT WAS OK COMPARED TO CONSOLES. Not ok in itself, even now AI pathing/animations are very weird and janky especially during story line missions. I still get T poses during the time skip cutscene with Jackie. Vehicles still get stuck floating. Police system is wonky, Wanted won't go away sometimes. Some objects still have graphical artifacts during conversations with Hanako.

[@DairyCat]

I've only ever played it on PC and never got these bugs. The police system is rubbish because you can just drive 2 blocks and they don't chase you that far, but I don't think that's a bug I just think they never coded police to car chase you, which seems like an oversight? Otherwise I enjoyed the rest of the game.

[@tcymay97]

@@DairyCat The Wanted System to me bugged a few times. No matter how far I go, it stays. T pose jackie has been there for me since release after my first reset. Its impossible you never faced pathing and wonky animations during missions. Mission with Rogue, Johnny and some guy at the nightclub and during chase scene while they were on the bike. The scene was moving at around 20mph and you can see them speed up and slow down immediately. When they turn, they just sit upright and the turns happen lol and a few more. Boxing matches were weird too, some punches have no sound, animations all over the place. My car still float sometime during the first Ripper visit I enjoyed my time most when talking to Johnny. The rest were immersion breaking.

[@Faint0903]

It must really heavily rely on people's specc then. I'm playing the game right now, and in my 110 hours of playtime, I saw one bug, when my car was flooting a little bit above the ground. One.

[@DairyCat]

@@tcymay97 I don't know what to tell you I didn't get get any graphical bugs like you described. The only graphical bug I remember was one particular legendary pants that I found on a bridge that had pretty bad clipping but otherwise nope. Game ran smoothly for me. What are you specs? I was running max settings on a 2080 when I played it.

[@DairyCat]

@@Faint0903 Yeah I'm on 234h and haven't had any immersion breaking bugs. But I always play on PC on a pretty good system that can run the games I play on max settings. Given that consoles seem to be the buggiest I'm thinking it's very spec related too.

[@meddios]

Beat the game yesterday, honestly really enjoyed it. Got one of the worst endings tho, but bug/lagwise it was not bad, have no complaints on that department. Would be great if they added like a preview for cosmetics or stat transfers so that I can dress up my character the way I want to. (an ability to hide a hat would be great too)

[@panchoperez104]

Probably because you beat it recently and alot of the big bugs have been fixed

[@meddios]

@@panchoperez104 Yeah you are right

[@meddios]

@@prisoner817 I mean, I did the other things first. But then was like, what if I offed myself and then was crying at holocalls, especially that of Judy's

[@thevarietyhour8805]

Bro I liked the game but when I got to the finale Mission I was kind of bored and was just clicking through the options not knowing it was the end. So I my have offed my self on accident and never touched it yet because I was so mad. And I know it’s my fault I’m just a dumb ass

[@meddios]

@@thevarietyhour8805 There's a good ending if you complete all Rogue's gigs and etc. Try it out, may be you won't get bored

[@hughmac7423]

I don’t think Cyberpunk 2077 failed on PC, it was a disaster on consoles, but the how anyone expected it to run on the last gen consoles is beyond me. I’ve had very few problems with Cyberpunk 2077 on PC, no more that every other game that is rushed out, and I’ve enjoyed it.

[@horderelations4041]

CDPR is "Ultimately" responsible for their bug/launch debacle. Quantic Labs should hold their own bag of responsibility as well. I played CP2077 on a very new PC and was lucky enough to get a RTX 3080 3.5 weeks before the release. I have seen the T posing, melting trees, cars that shot 100 ft in the air, some occasional crowd duping, and 1 bugged quest. I LOVED THAT GAME and totaled about 400 hrs played. I'm NOT a white night for CDPR... I thoroughly enjoyed the game! CDPR's most egregious mistake was trying to get their game to run on the older consoles that were obviously not up to the task. It should have been a next-gen only title and CDPR screwed the pooch.

[@cyberbladee9899]

I loved the game, was running the game on a 3070, I did not get nearly as many bugs as other people got honestly and I think the game just was not meant to be on last gen consoles

[@zyrtor1]

I had the exact same experience. I had a RTX 3070 right at launch, later gave it to my wife so she could play it, and I had gotten a AMD 6800XT. Both of us have over 400+ hours played. That game held us down through the pandemic and 2021. So far in 2022, we have yet to play anything close to being that fun.

[@horderelations4041]

@@PastPositive Your criticism is fair. I agree with most of your take. What could have been?! IMO I don't think it's mediocre and to me especially in it's current state would recommend a play through. I still enjoyed the game and look forward to the first expansion.

[@chainsaw8507]

@@PastPositive It's definitely missing things they said would be there, but I'd say the game overall is not mediocre at al. In fact, it's one of my favorite games, definitely top 10 out of the games I've played.

[@cyberbladee9899]

@@horderelations4041 facts really hope the first expansion is about the crystal palace

[@fabianheinrich2812]

it is actually both: Brook's Law and comes from the "The Mythical Man-Month: Essays on Software Engineering" by Fred Brooks. It basically says with the new workforce they will create as 2nd system, whose task will be to incorporate all of the additions they originally did not add to the first system due to inherent time constraints. This bears the massive risk of overengeneering and creating new problems without completly fixing the old ones, thus creating a new layer of problems without having a clean basis.

[@fabianheinrich2812]

i once found a major bug on EVE online. i gamed on for 2 weeks to finally be able to recreate it often enough to exactly describe what was happening , when it was happening and what was happening. this was in 2016. For those who are familiar with EVE: the bug happened to drone-boats when you had 2 or more drone groups in your ship inventory. What would happen would be , that when infight and realizing you should warp out for safety you would be recalling your drones and once they are onboard you would warp out. now sometimes that resulted in being a close call. in many of those cases when i arrived at the warp-out location, i would be missing a group of drones. now at first i simply assumed i warped to early and due to my ping the drones of which i thought were allready back in my ship were actually not and so i lost them when i warped. that changed when i realized , that always the last group of drones were missing. meaning : i use drone group A or B , but i loose group C which actually never had been used in that encounter. i lost nearly a billion in currency over that bug , because i was using Geckos a lot , which were a limited commodity and very very expensive at the time. When i started to try to recreate the bug i started using cheaper drones and always used 3 type of drones , putting on type of drone which i would actually not use in a Group named Zeta, because groups are listed by the alphabet. i then made screenshots , wrote down my playtime, the exact systems i was in and so forth and finally after two and a half to three weeks i finally made a very detailed report with all my findings and screenshots and else to the proper reporting department and waited. After a week i got an answer which was one line saying : we could not recreate the issue have a nice day. i tried it again and i could. so i went to discord and TS3 community servers and talked to ppl , and some helped me and tried to recreate that issue and some actually were able to. we detailed a couple of incidents in the next 2 weeks before again addressing the issure with the department responsible and simply got the answer :" this is not an issue , you people all have bad internet, we don't see a problem there." To this day i wonder why there were so not interested at all. i have to admit , this really fucked me up good , because i was trying to help the community and this and other things gave me the feeling , they never actually cared. so i quit. wonder if this bug still exists sometimes ^^. i guess what i am trying to say is : sometimes companies are not interested in solving some issues ,because they probably assume that fixing it would be more effort and cost intensive then just let it go on, since it may not concern a crowd big enough to have an impact. makes u wonder doesn't it

[@euriel2010]

28:10 Asmongold: Cyberpunk 2077 is the new brown standard Bethesda: Hold my nuka cola

[@SkyFudgey]

9:34 because you want to keep the contract but throw the resources that cost you the least and hope the project turns out a massive success. Doesn't matter if the people being thrown are newbies or they only recently learnt like a piece of software etc etc the boss told them to jump and they gotta sink or swim (read: slowly drown)

[@Vandius24]

This video didn't age well and neither did videos bashing No Man's Sky (Not giving constructive criticism but outright sending hateful material or even saying it failed when they both still sold millions of copies at launch) when it first came out. Some companies can fix games down the road but they shouldn't be launching games in these states in the first place. We should be getting products that are relatively bug free, feature complete and include all promised features.

[@CrowofYharnam]

It did fail the game still sucks to this day

[@Shaojackify]

I really enjoyed that game. Ya it had issues but most of my favorite games did as well. I still play VTMB and Fallout:NV and they are both a technical mess.

[@TheArrowedKnee]

Agreed, it definitely had technical issues at launch, and for me it ran horribly until i upgraded to one of the newest gen GPUs. But, the game itself was really damn good in my opinion. I just think it permamently damaged it's reputation due to the poor launch.

[@CoolOmega666]

@@TheArrowedKnee jjjyou 7

[@ArchieGamez]

Same i enjoyed it too, kinda sad with public perception of it :(

[@ravenspurplebeats5412]

people who complained act as if no game ever has had issues on release...which 90% or more of time game will have some bugs or issue on release.

[@Poppenheimer69]

FNVs technical issues can be fixed. Same can't be said about lack of RPG elements or good story in Cyberpunk. It'd require modders or devs to remake the game completely. Most people can't seem to either understand it or put it into words, but Cyberpunk fails at being a good game not because of bugs, but because its flawed at its core. It wouldn't get so much hate if developers didn't lie and didn't promise to make "THE RPG", only to drop a mediocre ubisoft-tier open world shooter.

[@draegoth]

I worked for customer support at IKEA, same thing happened there, calls could not be longer than 7 minutes each. This caused the quality of work to be extremely low and a lot colleagues just hung up the phone after 7 minutes regardless of the problem being solved. Sometimes things are more complex and can take 30 minutes to an hour. Management did not care. Absolutely the worst job I have ever had, I love helping people, customer support at IKEA does not want to help you. They're more interested in bolting on an additional sale over the phone than actually helping people that they have ROYALLY screwed over.

[@Alexandterrara]

I played through Cyberpunk on launch and finished the main story and most sidemissions by the following night, and I had almost no bugs except maybe some lighting, certainly nothing gamebreaking. The machine quality bias is 100% real, the classic "well it worked on my machine"

[@phantombigboss8429]

idk sounds pretty bias to me.

[@Real_MisterSir]

The main problem is that the QA team was tasked with bug scouting the game, when in fact they should have bug scouted CDPR management itself. That's where all the gamebreaking issues take root lmao

[@PhilippusAureolusTheophrastus]

Asmon youve never been this wrong. No man sky sold us a "multiplayer" single player game.

[@zr.]

True, but what he said was that its a bad example because of how the developers handled the situaton after release. Because of that it would be a poor example to choose, not a wrong example, but rather in bad taste.

[@natecus4926]

The best part about the media game of telephone, sometimes it ends up linking back to a publication that has put out a correction that isn’t referenced in the other articles. Other times it ends up in a loop where they are all referencing each other and there is no actual source

[@AJ_Ol]

I never bought into the hype for this game, and I enjoyed it. My biggest gripe is that a lot of side quest chains feel unfinished. Like 2-3 quests telling a great story and then it just ends on a cliffhanger.

[@khalduras784]

Yeah it feels like theyre banking on dlcs which is a dumb design

[@philipeanthonybattung3860]

does it feel empty?

[@khalduras784]

@@philipeanthonybattung3860 empty?

[@Jpow5734]

Especially the side quest about the mayor.

[@khalduras784]

@@Jpow5734 yeah that one is dlc bait

[@Divinemakyr]

Cyperpunk 2077 failed to live up to Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. Even if it had not a single bug, Witcher 3's story, world, gameplay, music, etc., outmatch it by a large margine. Hell, I'd even say that Witcher 3's DLCs, any one of the two, is better than Cyberpunk 2077.

[@SlurringDragon]

you know i have watched you for a few years and every time i see you do those eyebrow movements i think that reminds me of something and for years its escaped me till now......you remind me of a kotor NPC when you are in a convo with them lol.

[@SjurgisS]

Considering the "why they would do this?" at ~9:00. Same reason we dig oil while the planet boils - profit. Being a senior-level developer myself I know all to painfully, that some companies operate like a virus. They don't think in collective gain - the gains are for individual employees, mostly managers and their 20 family members who are also in management. You would hire them because they have great seniors. The seniors would work on the project for a week or so, until the "free cancelation" clause in contract expires. And then the "we'll be switching to a new dev, he's the same level" begins, meanwhile seniors are transferred to talk to new victim. All the while the junior devs screw up your code; junior qa can't be bothered to push single button before saying "looks good to me". This is an all-to-common business practice in some of the southeastern European companies, although I don't think this greed is limited to this region - only my experience extends this far. We call it the post-soviet mentality - "let me steal all I can, buy my BMW and retire".

[@UhohGundam]

Whoever tried comparing no man's sky to cyber punk just 🤦‍♂️. No man's sky was a indie team of like 10 people. While cyberpunk is and cd project red is a triple a studio. Yeah no man's sky should have released in a better state but it doesn't compare to cyberpunk by any means

[@select20]

Been watching you for years man, started on twich, then more recently on youtube due to RL time constraints. Of all the content you put out, this type is where you really shine. Your other content makes you seem like a cool guy. This type of content makes me think you will be a great man one day. You have some great insight and a "don't mess around" attitude with solutions to problems. Add all that to the fact that you speak with conviction, people listen to you, and your words carry weight. Keep on keepin' on Asmon. Thanks for all you do.

[@DavidJohnson-hs3if]

We didn't need this to know what happened, the proof is in the pudding.

[@phantombigboss8429]

Some people choose to stay ignorant and I just mock and laugh at them. lmao

[@oldmanjenkins771]

I just finished this game 2 weeks ago after the 1.5 patch on the series X and I loved it! The story was great, unexpected twists, I enjoyed it very much. Shame it had a horrible launch and people didn’t see what it was suppose to be.

[@TheTrueEmrys]

Witcher SImp Detected

[@Thiwaz]

I agree. The game plays a lot better now

[@dussan2]

My friend and I were the lucky ones that had relatively bug free game run during release. Had the game on max settings and it was an awesome experience, I got about 200 hours into it.

[@xxkildarxx]

@@livamyyo Art is subjective. You could write "The greatest story ever written" and at least half the people who read it would say it was bad. There are a lot of elements that make up a story that a person will find fault with based on personal experiences and preferences. The difference is some people are rational and logical enough to understand that and others are so ego driven that they think their opinion is a fact. Sadly the "opinion is fact" camp usually suffer from such crippling self esteem issues that their desperation for the validation of their opinion makes them annoying AF to be around.

[@dussan2]

@@livamyyo What old story are you talking about? It's been the same main story since the beginning.

[@Metalblowing]

Every outsource company is doing that. Even the outstaff companies are doing this shit. My city has some of the world's top outsource companies. It's a 1 mil city so a lot of people know each other and we constantly share stories how company X paid for 30 senior devs but got 1 senior 10 juniors and 19 ghosts :D

[@AresGodOWar]

This is CDPRs fault and no one else period. They knew the game wasn't ready, But they still released it.

[@tyj9175]

they didnt have a choice. the investors forced them to and the marketing department hyped the game to a criminal point. releasing the game for old gen consoles so gen z can play was their major downfall.

[@phantombigboss8429]

@@tyj9175 Does CDPR pay you to defend this defenceless broken game? they should at least send you pizza.

[@stevenviljoen160]

​@@tyj9175 It's still their fault. Investing is a agreement and a obligation. The developers took their money with a estimate of time and promise of a return of investment. The Investors did their part and CDPR failed to uphold their end of the deal with multiple delays and failure to meet standards. Investors are in the right in this situation as its their money on the line.

[@tyj9175]

@@stevenviljoen160 well that bit them in the ass didnt it? if they wanted to make a return on their investment, youd want a finished product released. right?

[@tyj9175]

@@phantombigboss8429 far from broken. just didnt live up to your expectations.

[@masoprid3]

cd project red is a great company. 1 bad game doesnt wipe all the other great games they made. they deserve another chance but they need to deliver

[@timekeeper2538]

They've made only 1 good game.

[@tantanjk]

I have an OK computer, bought the game on sale and it ran just fine, some bugs, but minor. I loved the shit out of this game and have well over 100hours in.

[@niakdrolrevottv]

Only thing I remember is them saying the game was ready, deciding hey actually it’s not, and then getting tons of death threats and harassment from gamers

[@dai-katana]

I waited one year after release to buy Cyberpunk and loved every single seond of it. Glad I did not brought it on day one.

[@n4k3d51]

It did not fail ITS A MASTERPIECE!

[@stanfordsan]

Upper Echelon is a great journalist. His videos are very thorough and in depth. The guy does his research and it shows.

[@Savukala]

A journalist would had contacted quantic lab and cdpr for comments prior to publishing

[@toifel]

This isn't even journalism by Fox News' standards.. entertaining KZbin content, but far from journalism.

[@schwartzy65]

"Cyberpunk is good game now" perhaps on better state but the game still lacks so much what was promised. And the cop system is just so bad.

[@pfgbam]

even IF quantum had fixed most of the major bugs and performance issues, I would still argue that cyberpunk was still a major let down. it barely delivered on it's promises. for example the 5 minute time skip montage at the beginning where you become an established merc was probably one of the most insulting things that I've seen a supposedly "AAA" game do, like really? they condensed your interactions with jackie and the fixers and other characters to 5minutes?

[@spacejunk2186]

Yeah, that was really shitty.

[@zetterburger]

Go look at the CDPR picture of their dev team when they developed Witcher 3 and the dev team when they developed Cyberpunk. I’ll give you one hint, women and diversity hires.

[@tomcorn6047]

My moment of dissapointment was going to a ripper-doc for the second time and instead of a cinematic I'm greeted with an inventory screen, the npc doesn't even say anything afterward. That's what hype does though I still think cyberpunk2077 is a great game

[@AkaTipla]

As someone who didn’t know what to expect with cyberpunk before release, when the game came out and I saw the buggy mess, I was shocked. But after getting the game on a deal soon after release and playing through it, I honestly really liked the game. Considering almost every game on drop is shit nowadays, stop expecting perfection, stop expecting the promotional material to be honest, stop paying attention to leaks and definitely DO NOT PREORDER. If you don’t expect more than a decent game then you won’t be disappointed:)

[@timekeeper2538]

@@zetterburger Oh so melanin and breasts were the problem, of course!

[@edithboozy1000]

Been watching Sanctionite since he had 8k subs doing Division raid guides. Love this guy

[@gslang3489]

Playing it right now. 2nd playthrough. 1st playthrough was on release with a godpc and I didn't have near the issues displayed in video or reported in my 1st. They've made a lot of improvements and additions. The character creator is against TOS. IF you pick this game up right now, it's generational and wholly unique.

[@markmitchell153]

How is character creator against TOS? Havnt played

[@Dozav7]

@@markmitchell153 - clothing optional on the character creator.

[@markmitchell153]

@@Dozav7 ty

[@karl-heinzgrabowski3022]

And my man, you are completely right about the recreation. Not only QA is affected by this, but also the developers. I got so many weird bugs in my career which were really hard to reproduce, it gets even worse if you have a shitty QA that hands you a "screenshot" (done with a camera) and says "xyz doesnt work".

[@valgilson6504]

Cyberpunk 2077 has a solid foundation of mechanics, setting and story. The state it was released in was a perfect storm corporate red tape and pressure. This game continues to improve and it will out last all of its critics. The modding community has embraced this game which will give it life for years in not decades.

[@chrispearl8858]

dude its garbage are u nuts?

[@DayDreamerFlo]

To think that I almost got hired at Quantic Lab back in 2018. XD Back then they were still on the Witcher 3. Dodged a bullet lol.

[@bradley163]

I have a strange relationship with Cyberpunk 2077. Although it was a buggy nightmare full of broken promises, I still played through it on my PS4 Pro the day it came out. I ended up putting 118 hours into it on the first week, did everything, and I haven't picked it back up since.

[@unkeptorc9656]

Same thing with me but on the Xbox one. I'm so mad because like a lot of people I wanted this to be good.

[@blueversace4447]

@@unkeptorc9656 Why did you play over 100 hours if you don’t think it’s good?

[@unkeptorc9656]

@@blueversace4447 because I was trying to give it every chance to be good. I really wanted it to be something I could play for a long time. Also it was a Christmas gift from my wife so I don't want the gift to go to waste.

[@MorganvanDyk]

Im in QA and I have so many questions and thoughts on this, getting good experience testers is really hard so when you have Senior people leaving your company its not that easy to fill the positions, if you then send juniors your trying to hide the fact that you actually don't right staff anymore. If your target is set to bugs captured you will get so many low level bugs that don't break gameplay or functionality and will cause development to have to do unnecessary work. QA is worst job in the world if you do your job very well people ask what they paying for, when bugs get through they ask why they paying for QA. QA is not about finding 100% bugs it more about making sure the app, website and processes work as expected and give you the outcome the user will expect.

[@zauxst]

Upper is doing what journous should be doing, and more... Great channel to follow.

[@unyieldingsarcasm2505]

Hes great when he does actual journalism, but whenever he gets into "woke" stuff, it quickly devolves into poo flinging and rambling. Dude has some HARD bias's, will go on tangents against the left but will utterly ignore/making excuses the exact same behavior on social issues from the right. Hes great at investigative reporting in industry nonsense and scams, but on any social issue, his professionalism and subjectivity evaporates.

[@Qrows]

Nah, if he did he would see the statements where the devs refutes these claims. The entire journalism was wasted off two quotes from cdpr devs

[@Blackmystix]

@@Qrows Refuting a statement means nothing. A denial does not invalidate your journalism. Denials are literally part of the territory.

[@libra_v3]

@@Qrows still believing cdpr literally after they released cyberpunk... fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...

[@nickmagrick7702]

11:00 Trying to grade performance by only a few numerical markers is like trying to judge how good people are in raids by who has the highest DPS and heal meters, or the best gear. Ive been kicked out of many raids since WotLK for not having high enough numbers

[@simonnilsson5356]

Let me inject a thought into this discussion. Asmon says this result is not in Quabtic Labs' (the QA service provider) best interest. But earlier, he mentions that Embracer Group bought Quantic Labs. Embracer Group is a direct competitor to CD Project Red. Embracer Group also has a very agressive acquisition strategy (just look up the amount of developers and studios they have bought the last 12 months, its crazy). The importance of the revenue generated by Quantic Labs' external clients versus the success of Embracer Group's own games' success isn't even close. It looks like this might have been a strategic decision made by the mother company based on 1) Prioritizing internal/their own games QA 2) Hurting a competitor.

[@mistralf1530]

Booya. That's what I thought. Subtle sabotage by a competitor (so that it would give plausible deniability). Up and coming competitor from Eastern Europe with a good reputation and ethics driven policy? And who might have a problem with that? Why, a SWEDISH company! In a country where their corporations are closely tied to governmental objectives and national interests! hmmm!

[@SheepKev]

It's not just that they don't want to comply, it's that everybody that hasn't complied is already gone -- therefore, you only have those who comply leftover.

[@lukewarmape603]

If you play Cyberpunk like a linear shooter, you'll have a good time. If you step off the rails and go explore and try make your own fun, you're going to be extremely disappointed. Another example of a game that shouldn't of been open world, it was executed so poorly.

[@BluePhoenix_]

I love the people in wheelchairs, that just stand up and run away, if you pull a gun.

[@jaimeruiz7837]

I’ve long been saying that open world has been draining resources from games that would’ve benefited more from a linear experience.

[@About_That_Life]

No matter u look at it, still comes down to CDPR should of still notice the state it was in, i mean they played every day and you couldn’t play the game without running into game breaking or massive bugs. So no matter what you believe the game was rushed out 1-2 years ahead of schedule. I’m mean shit still no free or paid dlc after 2 years

[@SirTheobald]

you have no idea how much negativity can brew inside dev teams and how everyone usually hates working with external teams. without clear leadership in place, a lot of people often choose the 'not my problem' route and everything starts being a little too passive aggressive. task queues get inflated because 'you need to keep up to speed' or 'that's the deadline we agreed on' and everyone is soon overworked, overstressed, and unable to complete basic tasks with decent quality. no matter how good is your product, how much you care for your business, when you are such a big company and start brewing all this internal negativity - that's how you crash and burn. not everyone can deliver when it comes to it, and any successful company can flop at any time because of one wrong choice. business has its own beautiful way of imposing natural selection.

[@riftfontain]

Did he just punch someone in a wheelchair and the person ran away? Lmao 🤣

[@19Evangelion96]

I've complete the game a month ago, on patch 1.5, game is absolutely playable, I haven't find a 98% of bugs what you can see on some compilation videos. My small list of bugs what I've found: a small objects like metal pots (or smt like that) fly's(actually freeze) on air with 90 degree angle - on one place close to Vi house. I'm stuck on campaign progress, cuz Takemura didn't call me to the next day(I found how to fix that), can't complete an optional quest with a tank, but you can skip it, and didn't lose anything. And the last one - Panam Palmer walking above the ground a small amount of time at one mission. That's it. No T-pose, no lod rendering problems, jumping cars to stratosphere etc. I've played on PC. Good game and sad plot. Sry for my eng, if it's looks weird.

[@hexoson]

Your English seems pretty good if it's a secondary language for you. This encourages me to try the game again for the first time since it released. I played it for a good two hours the day of release, then gave up and never played it again. Maybe it will be different, but usually if I don't like a game I'll know within an hour or two of playing it.

[@19Evangelion96]

Not even the third, but hey, thanks! Sometimes some games can be not for you (like the souls-like games for me). And it's not tragedy. Actually a first ~3-4 hours I'm was played without a huge enthusiasm but biased. But when the story start moving it's becomes interesting. My expectations was being low and maybe this helped me. It's not The Witcher 3 - for me, but still good, I'm not disappointed about the game (I disappointed only about all that stuff what they cut. If the game was released finished with all things what they wanted to make... the game was being a brilliant, but now it's just a good single game. For my opinion it's definitely better than some Watch Dogs, Far Cry and the last three Assassin's Creed games). You can try again, but if not tasty for you, don't torture yourself.

[@nobodyimportant_23]

I work as an analyst managing metrics. The WORST thing you can do is use the metrics synonymously with goals. Instead, metrics and KPIs are really just a quantifiable indicator of if progress meets the expectations set. However, I don't agree with some comments here about not having any metrics. It works for small high quality teams maybe, but once you get into larger organizations, there simply isn't enough visibility due to silos and a complex hierarchy structure to keep everyone aware.

[@AnimGhost]

Cyberpunk is an amazing game, works great on PC one of my favorite games

[@hanzo90]

Jackie Welles walking through the elevator door was just him straight up walking into a Dark Souls boss fight

[@manolkalinov2195]

I always say that QA is the last line of defense of a software product. A developer bangs out a piece of code and goes on their way, because they have to chase speed. But if the end product is buggy, it's the QA's fault. And that job is extremely complex and requires extensive knowledge in different areas. You have to be aware of multitude of completely different aspects of the product AND how they interact with each other AND how that result would affect the user. So...putting a junior QA team on this game is like giving fresh-out-of-the-academy cadets the defense of a country's capital while it's under attack.

[@fabianheinrich2812]

About NDA's : in germany and most part of the EU the following counts : an NDA is a contract. If you sign a contract you are legally bound to it. Should that contract include illegal precedures, you can ignore those illegal proceduces as if non-existent , yet you are still bound to the rest of the contract , as long as that contract has legal bases in it. Example: you can buy a blizzard game and agree to their terms. If those terms include you cannot under any circumstances get your money back (like in Warcraft 3 Reforged) once you received the programm, you can still get your money back. By selling its product in germany , blizzard acknowledges and agrees to the terms of service of trading in germany (and the eu). any illegal part of the licence agreement and purchase agreement can be ignored. Blizzard has to refund with no question within the first 14 days after receiving the product, because that is what the customer protection law says. The same counts for steam and else.

[@NoradNoxtus]

It's crazy that I played CP2077 after patch 1.4 and I didn't encounter even one bug shown in this video. If only they had released the game like how I played it, but still the product itself felt unfinished and quite rushed beyond the first act and section of the city. Still a great game tho, has a banging story and the atmosphere feels quite novel. P.S Panam is love Panam is life.

[@Grimeaper]

Starting out Dev here. My bug priority is like this game breaking , major wtf bugs (let's say the sky is a disco ball for some reason. I have seizures myself I kinda need that fixed pretty soon since I am also dicking about with the game), major bugs (people keep becoming spaghetti monsters), Mild bugs ( I do x expecting y but y.5 happens), anything else falls into the minor bug category. Then we work on stuff and if a minor bug fix leads to the whole thing breaking, we may leave that bug in or get our coder to examine things and see if this is not a broken Jenga Tower waiting to happen. Not a perfect system but it works. Again I am just starting out so our systems are not top tier perfect diamond level.

[@FreedomAndPeaceOnly]

The hype about Cyberpunk 2077 was big to proportions I generally dislike so I started to distrust it from there on already. It was just too tryhard to look good. Next was the genre. A "cyberpunk" future which was surprisingly well delievered I must say. The world is a wierd, futuristic dark technocrate dystopia just like what the usual suspects in our real world seem to aspire in establishing. It is also a genre I was never truly interested in, features everything that reminds me of our real world and worse and is hard to sell if the trend does not lie. Which is, people want high-fantasy or low-fantasy, or even dark-fantasy settings cause they seek dreams & hopes, something I wouldn't even call "escapism" at all. So what if Magic does not exist in our real world (yet). Or all those creatures & races associated with it. Just give up, bow down and accommodate to the world that is? Thats what I said to god when I made him my bitch.

[@sadizm]

i wish we have a mod that allow us to fly around the city. The whole open world is so well built

[@Bakuplayer13]

You're absolutely right about that making Cyberpunk a weird sell. As someone that enjoys it, I'll say that enjoying it while acknowledging it as a black mirror to our own reality these days is... It's pointing at the old authors of the genre and going 'they saw it coming'. It's also, if not in the video game, then in its TTRPG form, an incredible way to get catharsis. By first having this caricature of a setting that points out all the shit that's wrong in our own society, then being given the freedom and chance to rage against that machine. Putting the punk into that Cyber.

[@kognitox]

Work in a govt dept(not us) and yes my work is constantly getting new rules made by directors that make 0 sense to anyone who actually knows the job and usually ends up making everything worse for the customers and the people doing the work

[@Tetrad20]

For the record I bought this game a few months ago, and it was a blast.

[@Noname304y2u2]

I worked at multiple customer services with this problem. It meant that reaching the quotas was more important then the customer. This became an incentive to help the customer as little as possible because they kept pushing for arbitrary statistics made by people that had no understanding of the work.

[@marcanthony4930]

I waited to buy it until the bugs were fixed, maybe 6 months later, and LOVED the game. The music was the best of any game I ever played, I loved driving around listening to it. I even played it twice, first as a sniper, then as a Hacker infecting everyone. Sniper was harder, infecting peeps is OP. I loved the different endings too, they were very engaging, and had me thinking about morals of choices, etc. My ONLY real complaint was the NPC's...I know this was a huge ask, but they were just too limited in their reactions and interactions. But the Main Characters has so much depth, Johnny, Judy Rogue, Alt, all so well done. I was actually disturbed when I made poor choices, it was very engaging game. 9/10 for me.

[@GhullieUser]

Its a mediocre game with a good story that got rekt with bugs

[@stevenviljoen160]

The problem is all the things they've put in the game has been done before in better ways. From Gta and their ilk (saints row, Mafia etc.) to Deus Ex and other Cyber future type games. Added on top of their broken promises and scummy review practices.

[@junkie2100]

on the grading/quota system thing. yea i have been there. worked in tech support for years, they started doing the whole "metrics" thing, you had to say certain things, make sure you follow the script, etc, and the people they had grading you were outsourced, so not only were there situations where they didnt understand the work and ended up getting docked for providing the right fixes that they didnt understand, but at times would even get docked because i used slightly different words for what i was supposed to say and they didnt speak english natively... i refused to use the script or pay attention to the metrics and they threatened to fire me every other week for 5 years, they werent going though because i was one of the very few people there who actually knew how to fix things rather than just following said script

[@Lonaticus]

Welcome to the Romanian job culture/environment. Shitty management, zero protection (laws are there but rarely enforced/applied) and terrible treatment. The end result is always a fuckup. There's a bloody good reason why most of the skilled workers leave, blue and white collar alike. I'm waiting to get the minimum years needed to apply abroad, then will leave as well.

[@EdoGDL]

as a QA engineer, asmongold is right... trying to reproduce an error is a pain in the ass, and when you filed the defect, document how to reproduce it, the exact enviroment in which it present, attach the evidence, most of the time the developers for the amount of work they have, don't accept it since they can't reproduce it in their machine, and for them is a isolated case... so is a constant "fight" between QA and devs. usually all the visual defects of a software are compiled on a single ticket, since the dev can fix one thing a solve most of those errors... you don't file a defect for every single bug that you find, omg. they were really juniors.

[@bubbles0216]

As far as not claiming every bug as a defect: the quotas and threat to their jobs was likely the majority cause. But I do feel you on beginner QA personnel. It was so hard to overcome the desire for perfection - to learn what to let go and what to send back to get fixed.

[@Vamirez]

The still mind-boggling thing is this: Even with the outsourced testing being flawed and all that - if you just started up the game and played regularly, the game-breaking issues were directly in your face. A ton of folks playing this on the internet have demonstrated this. So at the end of the day, the responsible parties at CDPR did either not try out their own game at all, even though it is their largest and most important project to date, or those objecting about the state of the game at CDPR were willingly ignored. It takes both sides here (CDPR and the outside firm) to fail here to produce the end result that we got. But I have encountered the same phenomenon elsewhere - I once started an expensive, professional software that had been provided to me to do a job with it. And it always crashed when you tried to create a "new project". Which is the first step in the program. *shrug* But also, CP2077 has other problems, like missing advertised features, bad writing and mediocre to bad ingame systems. Almost all of it has problems. The apple was rotten to the core there.

[@rubencid2575]

This is not a defense of CDPR, bit of the devs. In the gaming industry there is a lot of extra hours, harsh conditions and other. Compiling the games can be painfully slow o require to merge multiple lines of work to be sure that is a complete recreation. The devs are rushing so they font have time for those things. Plus you have to add their own bias when dealing with mechanics as quests or others

[@Vamirez]

Did I say the devs have to test it personally? No. But at least the persons responsible should have a look at their effing product.

[@Ralathar44]

Played it through on PC at release and in my first playtrhough I had like 6 bugs. 2 were minor visual bugs. I'm literally video game QA. People putting those bug compilations on youtube don't tell you how they played 100 hours to get a 5 minute bug clip. They just pretend thats the entire experience because they are literally incentivized to do so for views and $. It's a conflict of interest to be real about any game, you need to be over the top in some way to be interesting. Also "bad writing" is an interesting critic considering the steam community collectively decided to award it best story game of the year.

[@Vamirez]

I know that individual experiences varied - you could be lucky. But you could also be very unlucky. Just watch a let's play of the game (or any of the long videos criticizing the game - there are some very good ones) to see that "100 hours to put together a 5 min. bug clip" doesn't hold up at all. I don't care what you literally pretend to be, that whole paragraph is a hot take. "Bad writing" refers to non-sensical quests plus CDPR not even being able to get the main story correct, which is adapted from a four page example story in the Cyberpunk P&P rulebook. They also didn't get the setting right (what do fixers do, what do edgerunners do, why should they have streetnames, what is cyberpunk ideology, how does Soulkiller work etc.), which is a shame because it seems the author of the P&P books didn't care and just used the opportunity to publish a new edition. What fanboys on Steam decide is no measure for anything btw.

[@Ralathar44]

@@Vamirez "what fanboys on steam decide" is a clear indication of your bias. Steam is not a monolith, its the largest and most varied collective of gamers on the planet. The good, the bad, and the ugly. And they collectively decided it was a great game. You can't simply write off steam because it disagrees with you, especially not when 60% of sales were PC lol.

[@mmcgear4376]

11:03 I feel you bro. most of the top management of the agency don't have a first hand substantial experience of the actual work and they come up with bs that defeats the core essence of the work

[@DrNiradino]

I honestly don't think that CP77 failed per say. Writing in the game is quite stellar, world looks great, depiction of hypercapitalism was on point, and overall, despite many, many shortcommings, I enjoyed 100 hours I put in it. And I've seen games came out in a much worse shape, and then become cult classic. V:tM Bloodlines is a prime example of that - on original 1.0 patch you couldn't even complete the game without consol. As for QA, for how rough the game was, and how screwed up deadlines were, they did a great job. I didn't encounter any gamereaking bugs, only one broken quest, no unezpected shutdowns. Now there were quite a lot of visual and gameplay bugs, but nothing major.

[@crybirb]

You're delusional.

[@DrNiradino]

@@slick3996 played it on release.

[@denikec]

15:10 Yeah, this. I work as a business analyst and I also test stuff in our application, and I remember an issue where I tried to recreate a bug for like 3 hours and didn't succeed, turned out that it only occurred when that screen was accessed from another very specific screen which I didn't even know existed.

[@Darthborg]

I loved this game but I'm so sad it failed. :(

[@phantombigboss8429]

its alright theres plenty of good games that are not broken out there.

[@Darthborg]

@@phantombigboss8429 really????

[@jxstified7558]

Btw Cyberpunk has made so many updates since release and the size of the update is the size of the game almost with a bunch of fixes, so I would encourage those who bought the game and still own it to try it out again and for those who havent bought it to take a look when its on sale.

[@phantombigboss8429]

I played it recently still runs like ass even on my Ps4 Pro. it will never fixed.

[@HoodedMushroom]

It's sad they rushed it, and CDPR lost a lot of good will. But on PC, which is majority of the sales, it's still a great game. Great characters, dark, sad, badass story, enjoyable combat, and if you have the power, running it at 4k ultra with ray tracing is absolutely stunning. It has well over 22 millions copies sold by just 2021. I am going through the game again, trying different build, and most bugs that I noticed before are gone. They still should fix police and AI of the NPCs, and gearing system especially, but Iam enjoying the game very much. And I love V's and Keanu Reeves's Johnny "friendship". The atmosphere, music, it's just well written. Hopefully their next release won't be rushed by morons that got no idea about development.

[@SaSok898]

In IT consulting it is normal to use the veterans to get the gig and send in the juniors to do the work. The reeason is that if you put the names of the juniors in the offer you don't get the job. Also the hourly/daily rates are calculated for the veterans so they get juniors doing the job on veteran rates.

[@starcrying6441]

People just expected way too much. I kept my expectations in check and realistic and I found it beautiful, not to mention the story is so intriguing and interesting, it kept me on my toes.

[@TheGravityAxe]

Some of the best games ever are those that take years to develop and come out of nowhere. It wasn't perfect but I enjoyed it thoroughly.

[@fisharepeopletoo9653]

If audiences expected too much, who is to blame there? The audience, or the studio that went well out of it's way to hype it up?

[@7InkredibleTruth7]

Cyberpunk made me lose hope in 90% of all future titles from any studio. I just don't trust the gaming industry at all.

[@Luftgitarrenprofi]

CDPR made the biggest mistake advertising the game by giving their audience the impression that it's going to revolutionize the genre and provide all the things gamers have been longing for in the past decade. The game by itself is actually better than an AC Valhalla and after all the updates it's pretty solid. And while it doesn't come close to RDR2 or Ghost of Tsushima it's definitely not a bad experience. That being said, it's also yet another game that didn't want to break out the standard open world formula.

[@kiddhkane]

No, it's really not better than AC Valhalla nor any major game from last years, except for the ones that utterly failed (fallout 76, anthem...)

[@dtwduuvaaall6865]

@@kiddhkane I would have to disagree, I thought AC Valhalla was the worst out of the last 3 AC's, and that cyber punk was a lot more "fun"

[@19Evangelion96]

The last trio of Assassin's Cringe - way worse than Cyberpunk 2077, they are boring AF.

[@pungoolie]

imo, rdr2 >>> cyberpunk >>>>> ghosts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ac valshitta

[@hexoson]

@@19Evangelion96 I got over Assassin's Cum after Blackflag. Assassin's Cuck just got so unoriginal and boring and honors basically nothing that made the franchise good in the first place. Same with the Far Crack franchise.

[@Lintuxlolz]

I remember, back during BC, having a GM actually physically coming into our raid of Karazhan because Curator was bugged somehow (Can't remember exactly... think it was untargetable or something) but they talked with us, gave us all visual effects and costumes while trying to figure it out and that will always stick in my mind for CS and Bug Report moments. Now everything is just automated, slow and feels completely disconnected for almost every game when it comes to Bug fixes, reports or even communication in general. QA is obviously exactly the same.

[@Ugapiku]

I played it last week and I actually enjoyed it, they made a lot of updates and the game is on a good path. How much will they invest in this game no one knows, but I hope that it will become No Man's Sky 2.

[@markcarier]

I am a 3D artist in the video games industry. In general, QA tester is a junior position and is used as a way to get a "foot-in-the-door" in the industry. A "team" of veteran testers exists very rarely. A studio should always do their own in-house testing as well as outsourced testing to get a second opinion and insure quality.

[@Speculaas]

Cyberpunk 2077 was a very weird experience to me. Strip away the technical issues and you have an incredible open world with fantastic storylines. Problem is there's not a lot of game in this game and the game that is there is usually copied ideas from other titles. Which is weird given that it's an adaptation from a TTRPG with quite unique game rules. This game simply had very bad communication and direction. This felt like a billion dollar FFA development race.

[@tylerallen7617]

So it is an incredible open world but with no game?? Am confused an incredible open world is full of life and interactive things to do. This game had none of that

[@jakobsylvester7449]

Totally. It does not really feel like an rpg but more like an adventure shooter to me. I never understood the focus on the bugs. The beautiful city being empty and devoid of actual good emergent game play always felt way worse because of the missed potential.

[@CunkGungler]

Youve hit the nail on the head. It never felt like it had much 'heart' to it. That stuff was included just because 'this is a video game, video game needs things like this skill trees and side quests'. Its like CDPR had a vague idea of what they wanted the game to be, the more they worked on it, the more it bloated.

[@mascot4950]

"Not a lot of game," is pretty much my summary of it as well. Heck, if you follow the main story there's barely any game at all. At least to me it felt like five minutes of playing followed by twenty minutes of hitting F to continue conversations. If I have half an hour to play a game before needing to go do something, I want that time to be actually playing a game. In Cyberpunk I quickly learned that means doing a gig, or just driving around for a bit enjoying the graphics. That said, I picked it up at deep discount and think it gave me more or less value for money. It was average in the gameplay sense, but average is sometimes perfectly fine. I think it's egregiously overpriced at full price. I also find it rather disappointing it looks like they'll never properly finish the game.

[@Speculaas]

@@tylerallen7617 let me rephrase: an incredible play space. Night City is one of the most impressive worlds ever modeled. What sucks is that there are almost no interconnected systems or choice-related encounters.

[@AlanRedrew]

I bought the game at Day 1. I couldn't give a single fuck about bugs, I knew that they can and would be fixed. What disappointed me was the boring gameplay. I mean we can fly in San Andreas but we can't in a city that is FULL of flying vehicles.

[@nathanheim248]

Bought after the 1.5 update. Haven't experienced the bugs and such that everybody describes.