Cycling Base Training Myths Debunked

[@CharlieCarbsandCycling]

I hate the turbo, however doing endurance rides on the turbo is actually the only thing I can hack. Whack it on erg mode and put on football/rugby/tv or whatever and just pedal for 3 hours. Genuinely is actually quite calm once you get to used to it. Much more enjoyable than whacking efforts inside, but obviously horrendous in comparison to outside

[@philadams9254]

Agree. Most people do intervals indoors and endurance outside. I prefer endurance inside where it’s warm through winter and then outside for intervals where I can properly hit the intensity required up a hill without all the indoor suffering

[@slowcyclist4324]

I’m actually ok with 3-4 hrs of erg mode. The whole idea of indoor cycling is to create a clinical and completely controlled environment to improve your riding asap. In erg mode, I just focus on spinning the pedal, watch a movie and the hour just flies by. Using erg mode and structured treainifn has allowed me to see my ftp go up and up. And ironically, it’s so much more efficient that I’ve more or less forgone riding outdoors because it’s so inefficient in increasing power. Each time I join my mates on outdoor rides, I come back feeling mildly annoyed at what a waste of time the ride was due to the junk miles, which would have been far more productive in an controlled indoor ride.

[@xAudiolith]

Tend to agree but as with your muscles your technical skills are a "use it or lose it" situation. Don't wanna be that guy in the group ride that puts everyone else in danger.

[@iraherbold4692]

Chris, one thing you're missing with regard to heart rate training is that, because it is a measure or internal load (as opposed to external load like a power meter), it's actually useful that it varies based on external conditions -- particularly when it comes to heat. Cycling at a given external load (say 200W) in 20 degrees C puts a very different physiological strain on your body than cycling at the same external load in 40 degrees. The fact that HR varies with heat allows you to take some account of the increased stress exercising in heat puts on your body. So in that respect, what you're saying is a weakness of HR as a metric is actually one of its strengths, especially when you're aiming for high volume, low intensity training like traditional 'base' work. With respect to your point about cardiac drift, it's true that you probably don't want to rely solely on a single data point, but if you look at trends this is again very valuable. If you have heart rate data from all of your endurance rides, it's fairly straightforward to look at metrics like efficiency factor or power to heart rate ratio (both easily surfaced by, e.g., Training Peaks or WKO). By comparing internal to external load, trends here can be really useful in seeing how an athlete responds to extended, low intensity riding, and thus as a proxy for 'base' aerobic fitness.

[@tbone-ip5fi]

See, this is the type of stuff never mentioned by the self-proclaimed experts on social media, like KZbin. The advice they so confidently provide is usually not scientific, but anecdotal. They don't know this, because they don't know much of the science. It doesn't stop them from telling the world what to do, because they (erroneously) have concluded that 1) it worked for them, so it is the best way to do it, and/or 2) it worked for them, so it will work for everyone. Most youtubers in the cycling domain are complacent like this, of course without realizing it themselves. Most viewers won't know, either, unfortunately. One notable exception is Dylan Johnson (who I have no relation to), who knows how to access, search and review scientific literature before summarizing it in his videos.

[@paulwebster4499]

Agree, HR is a vital statistic power is a number

[@Bicyclechris]

100% accurate. There is alot of research to back heart rate based training, and it’s written about by respected sources like Joe Friel and Stephen Seiler just to name a couple.

[@evanreeves5966]

Even worse is trying to be consistent in group "endurance" rides. Set an easy pace all you like, but as soon as the road turns uphill out downhill I'm either losing the group, or it's no longer endurance.

[@CamNicholls]

Heart rate drift at any cycling level is a real thing. And it will always be prevalent to some point, I agree. However, if you can create a consistent environment for one hour to 90mins max, you can start to see both reductions in average heart rate and overall drift as athletes become fitter. We have hundreds of RCA proof points in Today’s Plan that demonstrates this. Yes the heart is sensitive but it’s not as out of control as I feel it’s being painted here. Additionally, I am not sure what type of clients you have at Nero coaching but at the RCA we work with mainly amateur and recreational road cyclists between the ages of 35-65. Without ERG mode you will often see power drift up and down, in and out of zone two, because it’s unfamiliar territory and they’ve never trained exclusively in zone two before. So it’s a good teaching mechanism and also a way for us to create a ‘consistent’ environment for power output. Of course riding outdoors is way better, but an hour on the trainer in ERG mode isn’t as bad as you make out. In fact, put on a good Netflix show or watch some Dylan Johnson videos and it’s pretty good.

[@jarrodfife242]

ERG just makes the workout so boring in a zone 2 ride. I’d rather ride between 140-190 watts outside. My HR will stay very low normally during this but heat and conditions will vary my HR so I don’t focus on my HR much.

[@AlexanderTanned]

Oh I love some good KZbin beef...

[@CamNicholls]

@@AlexanderTanned No beef, just different points of view. I think Chris said upfront it was his 'opinion, you don't have to listen'. I definitely think it's worthwhile creating a video on my channel though, to show people the data. When we look into cardio drift at a Z2 power level it's very hard to argue with a heart rate that lowers and drifts less (for the same output), over time. Especially when the end results are 20-30% increases in FTP. I am not saying this measure is the silver bullet to cycling gains, but it forms a critical piece to an overall plan.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Sadly no beef, I feel we are just coming at this from different points of views and gauges of success. I don’t disagree you are more likely to see less power drift in ERG mode, in fact you won’t see any given what ERG mode is. And I’m sure you’ll be able to show an avalanche of data that shows the athlete (especially newly coached ones) who are able to concentrate their effort in a base training zone more effectively. Where I worry about that attitude is when you take a broader look at the athletes experience, looking beyond the 6-8 week training program and at them as a life long cyclists. I find it hard to believe a program that recommends ERG mode is inspiring an athlete to fall in love with our sport, especially in that demographic you highlighted, who are looking at our sport for some escapism and freedom. I worry that improving someone’s base fitness for 6-8 weeks could come at the cost of the them quite simply not enjoying cycling, hating the idea of getting on a trainer, selling the bike and buying a golf membership … and no one wants that. I should also clarify, I am not a Nero Coach, all the guys are accredited with post graduate degree in the sports science space. Sadly a couple of KZbin videos and my Political Science degree does not provide me with the required CV to apply for that job. 😞

[@TypeVertigo]

@@ChrisMillerCycling @Cam Nicholls I just wanted to say - very civil discussion here despite coming at it at opposing ends. While I apply Cam's/RCA's methods for base training, Chris does point out validly that ERG mode is not everybody's cup of tea, and perhaps even more so if that particular rider is relatively new to the sport. At the same time, I do notice aerobic decoupling/heart rate drift pedaling away indoors, in ERG mode, in a decidedly tropical country...but having a few of these rides under my belt I've noticed the drift rate reducing over time, from 11% to 8%. Chapeau, gentlemen.

[@christerohlsson9034]

ERG mode is the best thing about a smart trainer if I’m doing zone 2 I want to be in that zone and not all over the place it doesn’t take much to ruin a session I suppose to do

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Will have to agree to disagree Christer, I just can’t do it, nor do I think it’s good advice for new cyclists.

[@chbrosz]

Compromise: zwifting with the Z2 pace partner. Get the benefits of the pacing keeping you in Z2 without having to use ERG, and staying with the bunch gives your mind a bit of something to pay attention to. Pair with Netflix and you're set.

[@nicholaskeur]

Im more a runner than a cyclist, so a bit of a different perspective, I used MAF method training at the beginning of the year and over 4 months of this saw a massive improvement in my speed at a fixed HR and without speed work saw my PBs in 5 and 10 Ks improve by few minutes. for a Runner this kind of training is also very good at reducing overtraining injury's, as a cyclist being far lower impact probably less of an issue I guess. I would definitly recommend a base block for starting out in any endurance sport or when coming off a period of inactivity or injury, as that basic level of fitness improves then move to a more structured and varying style of training.

[@kswissu72]

Love what you said about increasing the cadence on hills. As for me when it comes to base training, I do 80/20 split with zone 2/3. I might also chuck in a 12 second burst every 10 minutes in zone 2! At the end of the workout I do 1 minute at 120% of FTP, before cooling down for 10 minutes.Mix that cocktail together for 6 to 8 weeks and then you are primed to start to introduce sweet spot and threshold training! Seems to be working for me 😊

[@loganj7238]

What is your rationale for including 120% for 1 minute? From the research I've seen lactate presence inhibits mitochondrial formation, which is one of the main goals of doing base training in the first place. Maybe the cool down clears all the lactate and avoids the inhibitory effect, but I'm not sure why you'd take the risk. For me with base training I try and keep it steady and constant with occasional short 10-15 second surges that rely primarily on the ATP/CP system without a lot of lactate production and save the lactate producing efforts for dedicated Tempo/Threshold/VO2 that focus on improving the mitochondrial function (among other adaptations) of the mitochondria you built up with the strict base. I listened to this research discussed in depth in a webinar, I'll look and see if I can find the link to that, but here is one of the studies they likely mentioned. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24128929/#:~:text=Abstract,maximise%20improvements%20in%20mitochondrial%20biogenesis.

[@loganj7238]

Found the lecture in question: kzbin.info/www/bejne/o2nPoGibert0kKs relevant portion around 11 min

[@gregmorrison7320]

Have to disagree on this one, all my rides are outdoors so no erg mode or any of that stuff but personally I love base training (longer rides) and HR and perceived effort are my go toos, I often say my power meter is my legs connected via my brain, perhaps it's my experience seeing as I have been competing since before the advent of power meters so it's what I know. Personally I don't see much variation from day to day but I do see the cardiac drift in the early days of base training. Have to say friends of mine that do better are the ones that do base training, others never seem to improve from 5-6 years ago.

[@mj3298]

😂 had this video come up in my queue this morning while in my garage doing a 2hr endurance ride on the Kickr… It’s the perfect wet weather option for fair-weather riders like myself 😉

[@davidturtonaptc]

Erg mode for my recovery rides is perfect, keeps a lid on intensity and avoids spikes, so I disagree with Point 2

[@julianaldama6631]

My fav cycling KZbinr for reminding everyone that this is supposed to be ENJOYABLE. Much love from the other side of the world

[@Fordworldrallyfan]

To me it can only be ENJOYABLE if it is done OUTSIDE on the ROADS (yes, even with all the asswipes in their cars and big diesel pickups trying to knock you off of said roads). If I am going to be riding inside all of the time (Zwift, trainers, etc.) I might as well just go do the effing spin classes at my local gym headed by (as well as attended by) people who know NOTHING at all about cycling, let alone get any JOY out of it, and sell my road bike altogether.

[@plantpoweredhealth9383]

I'm a heart rate user for endurance and a power user for efforts. Unless your sick, dehydrated or overheated, heart rate tells the story of your current fitness on the day. If you're heart rate is drifting up, your Aerobic engine is at its current limit or those other factors are kicking in. If it's not getting up to the number, you're probably fatigued on that day. Some other sources to tune in to are That Triathlon Show, Semi Pro Cycling Podcast and The Weekly Word with Chris Hauth.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Sorry mate, in my own personal experience, I just don’t agree

[@plantpoweredhealth9383]

@@ChrisMillerCycling fair enough, do what works for you. We can agree to disagree all good 👍 😊

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

🙏🏼

[@elektrischverhaal5166]

I wanted to mention that when giving advice, it’s important to also consider people dealing with winter conditions. For those of us facing snowy roads and freezing temperatures, often training in a cold garden shed, using ERG mode and focusing on base training on an indoor trainer becomes the only viable option.

[@wazzup105]

I love riding in erg mode, so there. It might be ineffective, but "liking" or "hating" is MY choice.

[@andyking8464]

Loved this video. I'm a 60yr old Lard arse who just got back on the bike last year. I do one 70+km group ride each week and my real interest is the 40km Friday morning thrashfest . Most of the remainder is done on an erg. I've got zero interest in doing base miles (or LSD?) and am amazed at what training with power and a smart trainer can do with a limited amount of time each week. Cheers and please keep the content coming.

[@czeckson74]

as a guy not using WATTs for my training i kind of have to use heartrate in a way, BUT my main tool for base training is speed (km/h). I´m lucky that i can base-train on the flat along the danube-river. For hard work i use hills.

[@shinji2oo4]

Unfortunately, Speed is a worse metric to use to determine how hard your effort is. There are too many varying factors (wind, traffic, elevation) that'll affect your 'base training'. I'd still be using heart rate in your instance as the tool for base training (just noting things that affect your HR, like caffeine, sleep, etc).

[@czeckson74]

@@shinji2oo4 as i wrote: I train base on 30km straight and flat cycle path with no crossing or any raise, therefore i think that speed and additional heartrate monitoring are a goog tool.

[@rcweekends9370]

Zone 2 is great! Get setup on Zwift without a training session selected (no erg). Put on a movie. Minimize the movie just so you can see your heart rate and power / cadence just in the background. Keep an eye on surges. Ride !

[@swites]

I always wonder if I do my base training at too high power . Nearing the top of my Z2 zone rather than in the middle or lower down. Can't have too woosy power on strava!

[@plantpoweredhealth9383]

I had same problem, high Z2 is basically low Z3 your body can't tell difference so you end up building fatigue. I use heart rate capped at around 130 for Z2 and let power do its own thing. Steven Seiler has lots of good info.

[@geoffnash9657]

@@plantpoweredhealth9383 Yep. It doesn't seem to matter if you train upper or lower Z2. Your body isn't that precise. Dr Seiler is the man.

[@plantpoweredhealth9383]

@@geoffnash9657 for me adding a few extra beats eg 135 plus versus 125 seems to put me over LT1 on long endurance ride and can cause all sorts of problems later on in ultra ride. Or 200 watts compared to cruising at 180w. Love Seilers approach, it's generally intensive or extensive for the workout, occasionally some tempo when appropriate...

[@swites]

@@plantpoweredhealth9383 thanks for the tips! Yes some of my Z2 rides are really hard to hold the power I set for myself after a few hrs and I really struggle. So am probably riding much too hard for my ability.

[@io8787]

I agree sooooo much with your last point....as an amateur rider, I have never felt the "need" for base training: I understand that it is for sure useful for professional (30h/40h a week, 11 months a year) but for me, having a period of base training would only kill the mood of every ride! At the moment, I am taking a winter pause (2/3 weeks), and naturally when I will restart, there will be a first few rides/weeks where I'll not push super hard...that will naturally be my base :)

[@donwinston]

I agree! My heart rate drift is the same amount now when I'm "super fit" (for me) than I was two years ago when I was as unfit as you you can possibly be. Obviously I ride much much longer, faster, and harder now. Who rides at the same power month after month, especially when they are a newbie? Heart rate data changes dramatically according to the temperature, wind, sleep quality, intensity of previous workout, pre workout drink(lots of caffeine really works for me on hard days), and the route you ride. I just got an indoor smart trainer a few days ago and assumed erg mode was the way to do zone 2 base training. I tried it for the first time yesterday and I almost fell asleep on a flat course. All you got to do is keep your cadence constant which is easy. I'm going to try it on a hilly course and see how it goes.

[@boogiexx]

Another Australian giving advice to people worldwide about winter training. Guess what; it's f freezing in Europe! What you think about erg mode as enjoyment factor has zero relevance if we're talking about training at specific power or in the specific zone, it literally trumps your 3'rd point about power surging cause erg mode doesn't care about incline. Is it better to go outside yes no questions about it, but if it's 0 C rain, wind or snow and dark at 4 PM that's lower then death on my enjoyment factor and I'll be happy that I can train at home.

[@sherwin3williams]

You can use heart rate to improve your cycling performance by using your hear rate drift. It really works. Also having a base training and weight training period are very beneficial towards your improvement. Without base training you will hit wall where can't get any more fitter

[@dumspirosperofilms2273]

What about weight training and running during the base season?

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

Running don't help much.. squats lunges and deadlifts help tremendously

[@raythorn1671]

Yes it does suck Chris, but....l have seen an improvement in HR over a 1hr steady zone 2 erg session, and a flatter curve when racing. I rode my first A grade scratch race on the weekend. Look l dont think it was riding at 170 watts for and hour that got me there either but maybe a better overall approach to my riding/diet/recovery And yes all my outdoor riding (training)has been focused on constantly keeping pressure on pedals. I agree with what most of what you had to say, great content mate.

[@andrewgrace1350]

Great video, I stopped doing any erg mode endurance for the exact reason you mentioned, it is one of the worst things ever.

[@pitekxpan5845]

Use HR for zone 2 , best way to do it . I don’t have any heart drift for 2-3 hours . If my heart rate not going up in z 2 I’m Allready know that I’m not fully recovered . Use power for Z3 And up

[@ashcameron7677]

I'd like to see Jesse breakdown Cam Nicholls video on base training 😅

[@cyc00000]

😂

[@troycollett8540]

@N C not quite

[@mattbordignon3588]

@N C don’t want to bash Cam too much, some of his content is ok, but he does push the whole “Cardio drift” point a lot when endurance training.

[@mattbordignon3588]

@N C I’m not sure why you bring up instant effort? Chris is not talking about that, nor am I. The article is about base training, which is what Cam refers to when talking about cardio drift. Yes, he uses a power meter for an instant measure of effort, but again, this is not the purpose if this content. From what Chris has said, cardio drift is not an accurate measure of base fitness because heart rate is far too variable due to many factors.

[@CamNicholls]

@@mattbordignon3588 that’s because we’ve had over 300 recreational and amateur road cyclists through the RCA now and 9/10 people that train base fitness using our methods see a reduction in heart rate at a zone two power output and a reduction in the volume of HR drift at a Z2 power output. This is a demonstration of physiological changes in the body due to a more efficient aerobic engine. Yes heat, caffeine, sleep can impact HR but you’re not always compromised by those things. In fact, for most recreational and amateur cyclists you can create a consistent environment to monitor this. Have a read of the RCA Instagram page. They’re real people and real stories.

[@TheMerckxProject]

That thing where you recognize just about everything on Chris' youtube playlist as he's scrolling through it....

[@niallwoan5847]

I blame Trainer Road, people are more worried about raising their FTP by 5 Watts than enjoying the ride.

[@davidcummings7735]

Great video again and totally agree with your base riding technique, while I do use heart rate I mainly ride zone 2 particularly on undulating roads, using perceived effort by trying to maintain the same effort both up and down hills, which means slowing considerably up hills and constant pedal pressure down hills. Works for me just coming back from a recent heart attack (3 months ago). Recently started lifting my intensity with short efforts during zone 2 longer rides. So many variables in cycling! Cheers.

[@SteveT__001]

I was about to post the same then read your comment, I find heart rate a great way to ride zone 2 if like me you live in a VERY hilly area where a flat ride is almost impossible and the hills are steep like 10%, power is too stochastic to keep in zone so I ride to HR zone 2 which is easier to keep in zone with an eye to power. Also nothing wrong with flirting with a little zone 3 during early base.

[@Second247]

5:40 That's in interesting. For me it's polar opposite, even mid-Z2 rides on road tend to be challenging if i ride over 1-1:30 while i get to do them in-door with far less strain. My core and hips which becomes painfully sore at some point and i can't push the watts. I can push low Z2 but from mid to high Z2 starts to hit the limit. On trainer i get my legs worked out and i can ride for longer with more sustained wattages feeling that i've actually worked out. This has been the nut i've been trying to crack for years now and it doesn't make sense why this is. I do lots of strengthening excercises and my muscular strength is my strong side (deadlift over 200kg) I commute by bike up to 2:30 hours per day, so it isn't that i don't ride outdoors. Yet i've always been stronger indoors, right from the start when i hopped on trainer. For me it isn't such an issue, i enjoy indoor training and when i go outside it's more for fun and enjoyment so low-Z2 is fine. And i race indoors so that's the discipline i aim to maximize anyways. But i'd love the idea of being able to ride hard and long outdoors without it becoming painful in wrong places. Professional bike fitter might help, but i don't have access to one. EDIT: i actually enjoy riding ERG so much that i it's my weakness, i am not very good at riding in bunch or pacing myself in hills. Playing video games and watching movies is just so much more fun than paying attention on what is happening on Zwift.

[@roebbiej]

I'm getting into the Aussie cycling KZbinrs lately. First Jesse, now you Chris. You're awesome blokes! (That's Aussie for dude, right?) Subscribed for the valuable content!

[@byrondixon4648]

I think if I'm on the bike 4 times a week for about 6hrs total I'm slowly improving. Chasing Strava segments gives motivation. Tried a few weeks of base training and lost motivation.

[@OldDavo1950]

Morning heart rate on waking is a good measure of recovery. At 71 mine can be 42, If it was 60 then I am tired.

[@Fordworldrallyfan]

Yes, basically true, but there are many other variables which effect this as well, beyond just over-training, especially at our age (67 here).

[@jarrodfife242]

I hundred percent agree with you about using the trainer for some 2 training. Makes it so boring. Id rather not be in the ERG mode doing 165 watts straight I’d rather be in control of my own power.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

I think that’s where SIM mode or free ride can be used, at least you are more engaged with what’s happening … that said, you could just ride outside.

[@jarrodfife242]

@@ChrisMillerCycling Yeah, I agree. If it’s raining outside would you still prefer to ride outside and do zone 2 or would you jump on the indoor trainer?

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Great question! I might answer this in the next daily Jarrod, but in short I try to be flexible with any training. So on a rainy day I might turn that into a weights day or a rest day and rejig things. Alternatively I’ll turn it into an effort stay on the gravel bike in Centennial Park in the wet. And save the insurance for a nicer day. Worst case scenario I will do it on the trainer in simulation mode if I have to do bass that day. But those days are pretty rare let’s be honest I live in Sydney

[@stianpollestad754]

Disagree on ERG mode. Doing easy (Z2) rides in ERG mode while watching a movie (or something) is quite nice.

[@michaelquinlan4817]

Oh Chris, if only the kit/ fashion chat could generate such ‘enthusiastic’ and ‘spirited’ discussion.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

I now right! Where is the heated reaction to wearing white jerseys with green knicks 😂😂

[@DonnyDonnMendoza]

I’m really horrible at this not surging thing; especially uphill LOL

[@daleheaps741]

Great video and points Chris! Wouldn't you agree though that the fact that you can't physically do the endurance rides for as long on the trainer due to you fatiguing faster is the exact reason why the trainer and erg mode will make you fitter? This goes for erg mode and all workouts though imo. Agree on the mental aspect though, endurance workouts on indoor trainers suck! Ride outdoors, enjoy it more and do it more = base training program.

[@discbrakefan]

Building a lot of fatigue every session might not be sustainable. Part of the point of low intensity rides is to be able to do more volume and train harder on the intensity days.

[@ClockCutter]

HR isn't a measure of "fitness". You're already starting off on the wrong foot. It's a measure of intensity and its a pretty good one at that, since your heart responds quickly and reliably to changes in intensity. And there are two concepts of "variability" that are being confused in these discussions. There's (A) the difference between your heart rate, e.g., under relatively normal conditions and while hot and dehydrated. Your heart rate will pitch up, sometimes five bpm, maybe more, at the same intensity when hot and dehydrated. There's the new thing that everyone's talking about: (B) the difference in the intervals between heart beats. (B) is irrelevant to any discussion of the usefulness of HR in base training. And, (A) is way, way overblown. It's so exaggerated, I'm pretty sure the people who say HR is useless or ineffective have never seriously trained with HR. If you're training at around the same time of day, and your diet and sleep are relatively constant, your heart rate will closely match your intensity, which you'd see if you used HR every day for say three months under said conditions.

[@stuartdryer1352]

So very true. Personally my heart rate is incredibly sensitive to external temperature.

[@cyc00000]

I'd like this 100 times over if I could. There are so many people out there coaching these days who are not only unqualified but have also never been a decent rider.

[@SteveT__001]

True that, everybody is a coach theses days it seems.

[@jamesgreene1979]

The problem I have, as a heavier rider, is if I don't put down more power on the climbs I just don't get over them :D at least not if I want to get home before dinner :)

[@bubbachua]

same problem here :(

[@Fordworldrallyfan]

Especially with an old school, Campy Record short cage rear derailleur limited to a 26 tooth cog, there are some hills around here that I can barely get over with that (they are not long and gradual, but short and steep, like the Belgian classics climbs). I have a 34 on front, so that is already maxxed out. Hopefully, as I get more fit after a way way too long layoff (of almost 20 years!), I will lose fat and drop from my current 180 lbs. and be able to SPIN over these bumps more easily, even in that gear.

[@Jefferent319]

Point 3 Is golden! Love it!

[@hmudesign]

I love the way you start this one with, this conversation should between you and your trainer, not you and some youtuber :)

[@ayogimenez94]

How many cameras did you use here. nice editing as always!

[@kelvinhocm]

Thanks Chris. To point 2, I get your point on it being totally boring. But just want to find out, physiologically, is it still productive to do base riding on a trainer on Erg mode? Is it still an effective method of training?

[@user-lj8je2cx9e]

Chris. Great vid and thanks for always taking the time to do these! Plenty value to be had. Side Question - Do you see any value with what L39ION is doing in USA and how it might apply to the local demographic in AU?

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Hey mate, thanks for the comment. Great question, I was only thinking about that the other day (not legion, but the demographic challenges we face). There are some fantastic projects taking place at the moment, like the youth of the streets cycling campaign which we are doing some work with. But these are charity/advocacy type projects, there is little to nothing in the performance or racing space. In all honest, and I know I This sounds harsh, but the corporate dollars required to make the changes are not interested in racing, if they spend their money on cycling it will be for charity rides. We have tendered for a few racing projects, always being beaten out by charity rides. That said, I’m still positive about it. Obviously we have the only ingenious UCI rider in the country on our roster, something we are very proud of. I think this is certainly a question we can touch on in a vlog. Chris.

[@par5997]

I can relate to this. being new to cycling I’ve seen some obsession with “zone 2 training” to the detriment of just getting out there and riding . Subscribed.

[@seriousbees]

I think you missed the point. He's basically talking about zone2 at 6:30, still saying its important

[@kevinlewis390]

Late to the party here, but, Chris says never use ERG mode (because he doesn't like using it and thinks it's too hard for some reason ) then immediately starts talking about how important it is to "flat-line your efforts". Umm Chris, you do understand how ERG mode works right? One more thing, how variable is your HR Chris? cause zone 2 power (65-75% FTP) HR is between 127 and 135 bpm for me year round, unless I am coming off a cold. I hear this so much that I'm thinking maybe I'm an outlier or something, but really? You can't use RPE and HR and settle into zone 2 with great ease? I would find this very hard to believe. The disconnect between HR and RPE is a valuable indicator as well, of problems like fatigue, sickness etc...

[@mattbordignon3588]

Erg mode endurance training = Death 😂 I can’t agree more. I do most of my training on Zwift due to time constraints and cannot imagine anything worse than using erg for any long period. Really enjoying your content and strait forward attitude. Cheers 🍻

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Thanks Matt, dead right … get on the trainer to bash yourself and get it done, sitting there and watching the seconds tick by … that a recipe for racking it.

[@troycollett8540]

@@ChrisMillerCycling if I’m going to do a longer ride on zwift I don’t bother with erg as it’s gonna kill you on the hills

[@FakeConcern]

I have no idea what erg mode is, but never mind...

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Your life is better for not knowing

[@FakeConcern]

@@ChrisMillerCycling Haha!

[@cfingergames]

"you'll start playing playing golf" LOL thank you for that

[@KuriReevel]

Well, Chris is talking about HR from a point of view of very good athlete and nothing wrong with that. But for example for some older athletes I mean over 40, 50, to follow closely their heart rate makes a lot of sense.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

We will have to agree to disagree mate, I don’t understand why anyone would choose to follow a metric that is so effected by outside conditions, especially when you have something as bullet proof as power. That said, I do think an underrated metric here is a Perceived Rate Of Effort number. It’s great for newly coached people to start listening to their body, rather then a highly fluctuating metric like HR.

[@Fordworldrallyfan]

​@@ChrisMillerCycling Chris, I believe he was implying the SAFETY measure implications of a HRM for us ancients (increased risk of myocardial infarction/coronary thrombosis, exercise induced arrhythmias, etc. even in relatively 'fit' elders) if we get too close to our maximal HR, and NOT as a training tool type metric. ???

[@silverburn55]

Have to disagree with HR. I had heart surgery and im in my 50s. I get the advantage of using power, but necessity dictates I need to focus on HR and making sure my heart doesn’t get over-stressed.

[@MRDTBOSS]

Too many variables with HR like the weather.

[@silverburn55]

@@MRDTBOSS When youve had heart surgery, HR is all that matters, even if it means youre slow on some days and fast on others.

[@vietnguyen4312]

Thanks Chris, I have never done base training and my endurance during my handicap road races (approx 1.5hrs) are fine. Thanks for reassuring me.

[@samfitzpatrick8442]

qualiy vid again! What was cool about this was that it wasen't like an out the gate 'this guy said that and that's total BS'. Even though some could consider it 'opinionated'. For me it's kind of on the fence and that's what I like. Your not sat there saying 'these are my tips'. It's just honest. So much more value!

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Cheers Sam. I appreciate that, given I know people will watch the video and complain I didn’t (or wasn’t) opinionated enough. But I can only speak from my own personal experience, so get get in front of a wide audience and tell people how to do things is completely wrong. That is a conversation between you and your coach, por even just someone who knows your riding. This is not me telling something to put 65psi in their tubeless wheels (which is just better for everyone), so much of this is based on your own physiology. Then again, maybe this was just a long way of me ranting after hearing someone suggests doing hours of endurance in ERG mode on a trainer … that is just the worst idea since the bloke who suggested black shoes go with white socks 😂

[@samfitzpatrick8442]

Thanks Chris! and welcome. Its truth in that comment too! We have a little group chat for our rides, someone posted a photo proud of punch of his new bike, like buzzing.. and the whole thing was over shadowed by suggestions like 'swap the tyres out, factory ones are shit' and 'if youre running tubeless, 60psi is the way'. I thought to myself, guys just leave the poor bloke alone and let him enjoy his new rig! Shake my head sometimes. So yea, love how you make sure we know its YOUR thoughts

[@dskordo]

IMHO - I'm team Chris on this one. No ERG for Z2. I get that it provides a level of control, but it's completely inorganic, and doesn't resemble real life. We have gears for a reason, there will be some power drift and variance - but it will better match the real world, not to mention keep one more engaged on the trainer when the gradients change and you work to maintain the prescribed wattage at z2. Just my opinion as a defective mountain biker.

[@jockdoc07]

Spot on & thanks.

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

You are so welcome

[@michaelbradbrook9575]

I think you and Backwards Hat Dylan are right on the money! Smash some crits, grab some KOMs and stuff all this base BS 💩

[@byrondixon4648]

And do your best to beat your mates on the coffee ride 😎

[@robertlight2370]

Fueled by hyper gain beast mode in the cupcake flavour.

[@EgeOnatDoguslu]

Can’t disagree with the ERG mode comment more.

[@wendysuperfan1014]

Thanks Chris. Interesting.

[@troycollett8540]

Vets racing is only 60kms so no need to do massive base block

[@jmunyard]

Base training for three peaks? I am no where as fast as you, my Peaks is 11-13 hours

[@hestefar2]

Dear Chris, I'm pretty sure that the exact point of orientating yourself towards HR in your daily training is that it IS variable. From your video, I can tell that you take this to be a big issue, but as the other side of the coin (watts being the first), i'd say that it is VITAL over time. Your output on the bike (you watts) simply have no meaning or context, if you dont compare them to your body's response (of which HR is a pretty great metric), since you wouldn't know whether the effort was easy or hard. That's what HR is for. Knowing how you are coping with the session and with your training load over time. Without it, less well versed athletes may run themselves into a hole, try to train through mild illness, do their intervals way to easy or simply not progress over time. Many benefit from HR in the learning process of knowing their body's response to training. And they should. Not having HR as an integral measurement of your training regime would be flying blind. And that's what you seem to be suggesting here. It may be that your own stance is more nuanced, but you did not explain that in this video. I don't think you did a good job of understanding what you are arguing against. And I don't think you did a great job of arguing against HR either. But people may listen to you anyway. And that's really bad.

[@gheorghefalcaru]

Well done!

[@melbournecyclingsegments7510]

Personal suspicions, theories etc from a total hack here, but I couldn't agree more with all these three points. 👍 Also, a very tactfully and politically correct executed video too, hint, hint 😂

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

HAHA!! Turns out my years of listening to political podcasts was finally worth it 🤫

[@mattbordignon3588]

I think I’m in the same boat as you! Somewhat a hack but really enjoy the honest point of view from someone who is really experienced and in the thick of things. Chris for PM 😂

[@adamgriss2025]

I'm sure you dished out some valid, common-sense advice, but I was distracted by your own video playing on the screen in the background. ;)

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

Ha ha. The dangers of having the screen shuffling your photos share library without paying attention to what was on it

[@naijaboyable]

@CamNicholls 👀

[@CamNicholls]

Thanks Lucas, I'm onto it now.

[@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed]

The only person anyone should listen to is me.. The proof of my knowledge is priceless.. I see the future in training .. Base training is nice for group rides training but not for training intensity.. HR is good for intense interval training. Erg mode is very beneficial!! But only for 5 to ten minutes helps tremendously.. After Erg mode you need to do high cadence for 5 minutes.. Base miles are good for recovery and endurance, it takes away from your intensity.. the problem with Based training is you cannot gauge how much Fitness you've gained. Interval training you can actually see the growth day to day. I can make you faster call me!! .. Fashionista!! Why you think god gave you 2 girls 😂🤣😆😜

[@neilmckenna236]

Brilliant 🤣 .... btw, i dont even know what erg mode is!! It sounds horrible.... dont have an indoor trainer .... would rather ride in the rain than do that shit!

[@bitminerbob6731]

Yes, ERG mode is the devil. :^D

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

💀

[@nicolaskirkland7095]

I never got the impression from RCA that : 1. When doing any endurance 'training' on the trainer, that I should be using Erg mode 2. That heart rate wasn't impacted by environmental and physiological condition or state 3. That I should be attempting to replicate the training volume of a professional cyclist What I did learn from RCA is that : 1. Endurance is very important, and this has lead me to read more around this subject matter. Erg mode is very helpful for those who are less well practised or experienced in maintaining a constant pressure at a required power. I suspect that Jesse doesn't use erg mode and I'm pretty sure he knocks out the occasional 2 or 3 hr endurance ride on zwift when he can't get out on the road - he doesn't use erg mode because he doesn't need to. If using Erg mode while training your base works for you, then use it, at least you're actually working your base rather than smashing out threshold efforts in the commuter cup every day. Using Erg mode for endurance is valid, especially if you are trying to mitigate any surging. 2. Everyone knows that HR is impacted by heat, stimulants, fatigue, exercise intensity, illness etc. Using HR as a guide or indicator rather than a 'metric' for aerobic fitness is valid, provided that we can mitigate against these factors. This is why we use a specific protocol when testing anything so as to mitigate factors that have a detrimental effect on performance. These very same factors would also impact our performance in an FTP test, but we appear to live by our FTP numbers and rubbish aerobic decoupling (HR drift). See kzbin.info/www/bejne/aXi7lGdtaa2oa7c at around 13min 23sec. 3. Looking at my performances and my numbers, I would say that even if I did have 30 hrs spare time a week to train, I wouldn't be able to do that much volume. That's why pro cyclists 10 years my junior retire. Lastly, as I don't have a coach, I can't chat with them about where and how base fits into my training - I tend to listen to my 'heart' ;) PS . HRV or heart rate variability is used as a metric for ANS imbalances which is in turn used as a 'indicator' of cardiovascular fitness, or a increased risk of cardiovascular disease and mortality. See the use of the word 'indicator.' Just because someone has a lower than average HRV doesn't mean they are going to die from a cardiac arrest.

[@donnapper882]

phew, that's a relief

[@neilzspam]

It's just bike riding so do what ever makes you happy. No argument there. All the other stuff you said is patently false and I would recommend people not follow any of that advice. To hear opposing science I suggest Dylan Johnson and Stephen Seiler (PhD) videos. Long zone 2 rides will make you faster. Period. The science if very clear about this.

[@jamesshepherd9154]

These two similar camera angles seem unnecessary and distracting - great content otherwise!

[@tomgoold8694]

You’ve lost the plot Chris

[@alwaysburnedaholein]

"Erg mode 360 degrees of resistance" lol. Please please please everyone stop watching and search for stephen seiler

[@ChrisMillerCycling]

360 degrees of hating cycling is what I should have said #ergordeath

[@tilengasperin1212]

👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎👎