What's The Ultimate Bicycle Gearbox? Rohloff Hub VS Pinion Gearbox

[@RobZelf]

I've been using a Rohloff for a decade and about 85000km now. Initially the first 7 gears whirred a bit but that disappeared soon. I lightened the whole gear-range for mountain trips but after that I just cycled and cycled and cycled. Oil change every year during a good clean-up and then ready for another year. For my usage (long distance, multi-day trips, 50/50 paved/gravel) I would not consider a pinion gear-cluster. I love the reliability and use of use.

[@vinnerf26]

Dude you are the wizard of making techy info understandable for people (like me 😁) I did a bike mechanic course for a big tour I made. While dealing with derailleurs and looking into other options I found out about the Rohloff and Pinion. The surcharge of the Pinion made the choice easier. Haven’t had any regrets. I love it so much! Thanks for your work and have a good one!

[@Cyclingabout]

I'm stoked you love your Rohloff! 😎

[@jensroeckendorf382]

Thank you for detailed view to this two gearboxes. Since 16 month I have had a bike with a Rohloff Gearbox for my commuter bike. It is very lightweight and sportive for every day use. It is the best choise for me and for people who need a flexible gearbox system!!

[@ginkobender]

Both gear boxes a pretty good and perfect. Your research is very precise and based on facts. My 15 years old Rohloff had a leakage at the left hand side. They exchanged the sealing for free including assembly work of my bicycle dealers. My 3 years old pinion had a leakage, Pinion exchange the sealing for free but I had to pay the assembly work of mu bicycle dealer. So my experience was, Rohloff gives the better service.

[@atheeromar223]

I never thought a comparison of gear shifters could be that extensive. Well done!

[@kevinburke6743]

Why cables & not Blue Tooth? It doesn't have be motor drive to us motorised shifting!

[@f.molenpad6801]

Thanks for the videos. The level of detail is refreshing and extremely helpful. Have a safe journey!

[@Cyclingabout]

Thanks for watching!

[@atticusfinch3989]

Great review! I have a C1.12 on my bikepacking bike and a Rohloff on my tandem. Your assessment is spot on! If you go with a C1.12, you save about 600g AND you have some aftermarket options for shifting (dropbar and flat bar from Cinq). Of course, you lose 6 gears and therefore have a bigger cadence jump between gears. The only complaint I have about my Pinion is the slow engagement, so if they can fix that, I’ll be totally satisfied with it.

[@erazr8116]

Thanks for this awesome guide! I was always quite concerned about spoke/rim failures during long distance bike touring, and a hub gearbox would make it way harder to fix such problems. Therefore, it is quite exciting to see that Pinion offers a completely different concept of bicycle gearboxes. After some months of research, starting with this video, I have just decided on a new Pinion touring bike for my own world trip. And it somehow wasn't as expensive as I expected, top tier Pinion touring bikes start at about 4000 € in germany (e.g. TX-1200 by Vsf)

[@romeo_svarlione]

Ты уже купил его?Тебе это нравится?

[@BenZintank]

For more than 15 years I am very satisfied with my Rohloff gearbox on a trecking bike. 3 years ago I exchanged the bottom bracket for an aftermarket mid-motor and the rear sprocket for a slightly smaller one, and now I have one of the best and most lightweight e-bikes in my area. I would always take a Rohloff again. And yes, I always try to avoid gear 7 and use the 1:1 gear 8 instead.

[@ericbergemann1987]

Great Review! Riding Pinion P1.18 and Rohloff bikes daily I can only agree with everything you say here. Especially coupled with Gates carbon drive. I love the Pinion best. Maybe only because it cost the most 😀 Keep up the best touring content on the Internet!

[@johngury]

I love the Pinion uniformity, smoothness, quiet and center of gravity. Plus the new magnesium C1.12 is lighter and more efficient than the P.18 compared here.

[@BosisofSweden]

Mate, you should definitely start a school education for bike mechanics all over the world. How you say it, your speed, how you build things up and explain.... It's just perfect! I would go with the Rohloff due to price, efficiency and the fact that the pros of the Pinion doesn't really matter to me. I am currently running a Shimano Nexus 7 so ... :)

[@Cyclingabout]

I'm glad you like my content! This channel kind of is a school for people who want to know the super technical side of bikes. 😎

[@BosisofSweden]

@@Cyclingabout Yes! A true geek site. Wish I could find you book here in Sweden also. Got any tips?

[@bananabear009]

The only thing I can remember after watching this video is the price tag of the gear boxes

[@antoniosegalada739]

Both companies are german. So don't expect low cost products.

[@sgtjonmcc]

Yea I'll just go buy a whole motorcycle for that price

[@johnlesoudeur3653]

I have had my Rohloff for over 12 years and it has been on three different XC frames and with about 8 different rims. I have only changed the oil every year as maintenance. Total cost to date averages out to less than the price of a bought coffee every week or two. You could also factor in the reduced amount of chains that you have to replace.

[@smiche2]

​@@sgtjonmcc yes and I can buy a car for 1/3rd the price. What's your point? We're talking about high end bicycles which can run years on end with very low maintenance and almost no ownership cost. A motorbike has higher ownership cost and it's a motorbike not a bicycle..?

[@user-op8fg3ny3j]

​@@smiche2 exactly! Plus you also need license, insurance, and road tax for motor vehicles

[@gobybike5016]

I have been contemplating to get a bike with one of these system. In my head, I am also adding about 3lbs for a heavy duty kryptonite U-lock to protect these expensive bikes.

[@christopherbrown6697]

I got a TiGr titanium lock a few years ago after seeing a friend's example and I would get another. Impressively tough and much lighter than comparable U-locks. Worth checking out (no affiliation, I just like them and they aren't well-known)

[@fabianm4327]

I really enjoy all the great information that you provide. I'm finally able to understand how these gearboxes work. I also understand now about belt drives, in fact, I am learning the simplicity and easy maintenance. Thank you so much for the technical information.

[@detmer87]

Rohloff has a 4% higher efficiency, is lighter and doesn't require a odd frame like the Pinion does so a easy win for the Rohloff if you ask me.

[@MannequinOngaku]

Plus the wide array of aftermarket shifters. Personally, being stuck with grip-shifters would be an instant no-go.

[@peglor]

It's all about what you want to do with the bike I reckon. I'm more on the pinion side. I used an Alfine 11 on one bike as a cheap way into the world of geared hubs, but the weight of a geared hub on the back axle absolutely ruins the feel of a bike on rough surfaces and especially trails. The lack of trigger shifter availability for the pinion would annoy me too, but the real downside is that there's almost nothing on the market in terms of frames that'll take a pinion gearbox so derailleurs is still win this one for the MTB/Gravel type spins I do. I'd love to be able to run a belt drive as chain maintenance is by far the biggest consumer of my time in keeping my bikes running. The slow drive pickup in certain gears on both systems is also a worry on tech climbs, I have a couple of bikes with old Shimano 16 click hubs and the amount of free travel before they pick up is shocking now that I'm used to a minimum of 36 engagements (Free play from 22.5 degrees to 10 degrees is a huge difference, going from 36 to 120 clicks is barely noticeable based on a 120 click hub I ran, as the benefits are very much into diminishing returns past 30-40 clicks). Shock loads to the drivetrain are much lower if the drive engages fast too, so there's an incentive from a gearbox durability point of view to pick up drive fast.

[@tonyk8368]

@@MannequinOngaku I personally don't mind grip shifters, but it would be nice if they would make them hydraulic like brakes so that they were easier to shift in the rain.

[@PhilKulak]

Noise kills the Rohloff for me. No way I go through all the trouble of a belt drive and hub only to have a bike that's noisier than a chain.

[@oilcanracer6388]

Rohloff has a weight/watts limit. I killed three in a row before they told me that. I did learn to build my own wheelset because of it....lol

[@c.b.oliver1530]

I built up a ti pinion bike 4K miles ago. Like a lot of my projects things didn't turn out quite as intended but no regrets. Although it is quite a heavy bike I think it is the drag that is discouraging (I did significantly lower belt tension as you have mentioned and that was a noticeable plus) 2 things I love about the bike are other than tires there is close to zero maintenance/cleaning which is great in NE US Winters-when who cares about speed! Also it is THE rail trail machine w 2.3” tires. I do have another frame soon to be in the works that will be derailleur but braze ons for Rohloff cables and chain stay joint for belt. Experimenting is so much fun! Thanks for your review and channel.👋

[@GMoneyLove]

I'd love to know the set-up of this bike. One dream bike of mine would be a "do-all" bike in Ti with a low-maintenance drivetrain. Something I can run errands on, or take on long bike packing rides. An all-weather machine.

[@MonoLake02]

I owned a Rohloff for about one month, and I still miss it. I purchased a titanium (Seven) touring bike a a pawn shop with a Rohloff, couplers, and a Son dynamo for $1000.00. The bike was too small, but I wanted the parts. My friend rode it and begged me to sell it to him, so I made an extra $1000.00. He is still riding it and would never part with it, and I am still dreaming of a gear box bike. Thanks for the review, because I am shopping for the right frame right now...

[@toeringcowboy2188]

Just bought the Priority 600. This video made me feel fine about my purchase.

[@elliottthomas7562]

Thank You so very much Sir , your efforts to explain the science of my favorite hobby, ..has added immensely to my enjoyment of the worlds greatest invention. Best, Ken

[@Cyclingabout]

I'm glad you liked it!

[@jcmuellner]

For long tours, if anything happened to my Rohloff, I could simply use my derailluer dropout, get a standard rear wheel and cassette + shifter and keep going on my Tumbleweed Prospector. I do like being able to swap the Rohloff wheel between different bikes too. After 3-4000 miles the sound of gear 7 is gone and the cranks don't turn when pushing the bike.

[@calaphos]

I think price is also missing the point that you can actually get a rohloff hub as a single part new for ~1000 Euro for retrofitting. Even more important, you can get them used for half of that - With their legendary durability even a really old one is probably fine.

[@alexmorgan3435]

Maybe, maybe not.

[@MrJonas2255]

I don't think Rohloff supports aftermarket wheel builds anymore. If it isn't built by them they won't warranty it

[@alexmorgan3435]

@@MrJonas2255 Rohloff don't build wheels and they give their hub a 2 year warranty. Bike manufacturers build the hub into their rim of choice.

[@johnp6404]

Legendary durability is just the German marketing machine in full swing. If it is that great, why not offer a looooong warranty. (Same for German cars, BTW).

[@OmmerSyssel]

@@johnp6404 fact is hardly any product is supported by more than two years warranty... Making your statement irrelevant.

[@chrislonsberry1974]

Enjoyed hearing your thoughts. I have a pinion bike coming in early April and I’m anxious to try it. It’s my first non derailleur bike.

[@MusiCaninesTheMusicalDogs]

Well... I guess I'm gonna have to use both in a single bike! 🤔

[@peglor]

Do it - we'll all have 252 gears and a belt drive in the future :-)...

[@tonyk8368]

I can't find it now, but someone did this and posted a video a while back. It was pretty troll. You get the downsides of both, and lose some of the upsides of both, but you can pedal at whatever speed you want.

[@christianwetzel2199]

@@tonyk8368 so you can pedal uphill at 0.5km/h and 500km/h on flat terrain ?

[@ruirodtube]

Upshift with one and simultaneously downshift with the other 😀

[@JonAbbott]

@@tonyk8368 it was Tout Terrain who combined the Pinion and Rohloff into a single bike... Here's the video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m17MmGCIa5qsfsk

[@victorvanniel8265]

Very comprehensive and thorough presentations. Well done.

[@kssrider6766]

After watching this, I need to start saving up for a gearbox bike mated to a belt drive frame. I’m done with derailleurs.

[@GordoGambler]

DeFAILeurs. LOL

[@Don19762]

What is wrong with derailleurs?

[@difflocktwo]

@@Don19762 Exposed. If there was a full chain case they would be ok.

[@DanielMosey]

@@Don19762 They fail at higher speeds on electric bikes. I have chewed through two sets of gears and one derailer in around 6 months. The power the BBSHD mid drive motors push out chew though everything connected to it even if you do baby the gears. You could save the gears and derailer if you didn't change the gears but then you'll lose either top speed, acceleration or battery life.

[@pashakdescilly7517]

@@difflocktwo Mike Burrows made a prototype modern city bike with a cast grp frame, and integral chaincase. The concept was for an enclosed derailleur system, the rear mech to have three jockey wheels. He asked some derailleur manufacturers if they could make a shifter to work within his concept - they could, but felt that they would not sell enough product to make the development and tooling costs worth it.

[@johngulino2651]

Fascinating. Seriously fascinating. I started out thinking that the Rohloff was the ultimate in non-derailleur set ups on bikes. Then, on KZbin, I discovered the Pinion. I’m considering both options. 😀

[@kunawisokaguro]

alas! last week ordered a rohloff complete with 20" disc-brake wheelset upgrade for my Brompton M6L! waiting for borders to open up so i could travel with my travoy trailer as well lol

[@kevindean9613]

Great in depth video ,I have both admittedly on slightly different bikes ,The Rohloff is on a Surly Ogre & the Pinion is on a Titanium Olsen belt driven & is lighter ,but The Surly with the Rohloff chain driven seems faster ,the wheels & tyres are the same .

[@storapa]

2:44 average efficency of 94.5% for the Rohloff 14 vs 90.5% for the pinion P1.18 confirmed

[@jessebignell5147]

Exceptional work as always Alee. Jesse here from the bike shop in Port Alberni, BC Canada. I have witnessed very recently a touring cyclist with a Rohloff failure. Not catastrophic failure, but a very concerning 'skipping' under load. Not wanting to stop and wait for an indeterminate amount of time to get it fixed, he opted to swap out his wheel for an 11spd XT rear wheel and keep going. Likely the instance of failure on a pinion systems are rare, but in the event of failure your options would be very limited. Thank you for your efforts Mr. Denham.

[@gosteadycycling5673]

Great vid - thank you! I've had two Rohloff touring bikes, and then bought a cheap 2nd hand fat bike with derailleur/chain. It is very reliable with wide gear range. I was pleasantly shocked at how good it was to ride! Would love to try a pinion gearbox/belt now for my own comparisons

[@paulheistein7950]

Great information 👍 Very clear, compact, detailed and nicely illustrated. Well done... and please keep on making more films! 🥇

[@Cyclingabout]

Thank you! Will do!

[@dannygayler90]

I recently purchased a Smart Motion E Bike with a Rohloff hub , so far after 1400 km I have no problems and rather than change the oil in the hub I'll take my bike back to the dealer for Specialist service , I also had a shock absorbing front fork fitted and the results and assed comfort were immediate !

[@agibsonallan]

I have been using the NuVinci harmony on my electric bike for a year now, love it fully automatic and no hassle

[@wimahlers]

NuVinci is fine and easy (continuous) gearbox for an E-bike. But it is a very inefficient gearbox for pedal power alone (if I remember correctly, the efficeincy is only around 80 to 85%).

[@biggityboggityboo8775]

@@wimahlers Perfect for a mid drive based ebike. I too have a nuvinci and you don't notice the inefficiency Vs something else. Whereas the continuously variable slide up/down the gearing ratios is simply sublime.

[@wimahlers]

@@biggityboggityboo8775 I concur. A NuVinci gearbox is very nice for E-bikes.

[@johnkucik1833]

Wow, love how comprehensive & technical you are . And now I want pinion & Roloff & new shimano & on my next .custom bikes . Great job & by a great professional enthusiast !" CHEERS" !

[@peterlo5900]

This guy is a professor on topics about bicycles.

[@rogerdalesk]

But not a professional on price.

[@Konocti]

If this stuff was as good as he claims we would see it used in the Tour and on MTBs. But no, these hokey designs are for nerds that theorize the superiority while doing recreational riding. Why would hub engagement speed matter? Start pedalling 1/100 of a second sooner!

[@Konocti]

@@Zzzzzzzzzzzzjjjj I am to a degree. I know the Rohloff hub was interesting to me when I was doing 10-12 hour MTB rides, but now that I do more conventional trail riding it doesn't. My snarkiness comes from dealing with the occasional customer that comes in my shop and lectures me on the superiority of steel frames, Brooks saddles and alternative drivetrains. Hey as long as I don't have to ride it it's all good, but I'm looking for a better riding experience, not a hipster bicycle.

[@budchestnut9303]

He speaks in data bursts! Very annoying. Expert but not so winsome. He does a great job otherwise.

[@dr.science_0177]

Nah. His not an expert in MTB and roads

[@dannyslaughter4845]

I have run a pinion p18 on my e trike for 5 years ,using a hub motor, i love it’s near silent operation,and it’s reliably. Never had an issue,not once, though i put around 1000 miles combined dirt trails and paved trails as it is easy to swap out tires.

[@theslightlyhillyrider969]

I think maybe the weight discussion is more nuanced. For full sus mtb, moving weight from the rear wheel to the frame greatly increases suspension performance, which would make the extra weight of the pinion actually a bonus over the rohloff

[@michaelwangler7509]

WoW !!! Amazing! This gentleman really knows his stuff. And he made his comparisons very clear and precise. He also reccomended what would be the best gearbox for your particular appication and needs. Nice! And interesting as well. 🤔 I didn't even know gearboxes for bicycles existed. Cool !!! 😎

[@jpdj2715]

Very interesting. I feel that each of these comparison points need a weight, though. I would rate efficiency 10 times more important than the other qualities.

[@markmarkw1919]

Yeah, well, he makes that point several times, particularly in the conclusion. He CANNOT give the comparison points assigned weighting, because he is not you. Or me; I would rate maintenance 10x more important than all else, because I'm a lazy MF. 😉

[@CowboyDave1812]

Thank you for the very fair minded comparison. Many of the advantages for the two drives depended highly on the style of riding, with the Pinion the hands down winner for those in the off-road camp. Since my riding is touring and paved bike trails, the Rolhoff is the clear choice for my recumbent tadpole trike.

[@janjacobsikkema4374]

I think the P 18 is a great gear box. I have a Idworx Opinion BLT with an electric Alber drive train (got rid of my car in the covid period and commute now with my bike and electric drive train; 18-22 km) and can change the rear wheel in 5 minutes and have the full advantages of the pinion 18 gears on a normal mountain bike. I admit, when using an electric rear drive train the P 18 is an overkill - a P12 is enough - but I have the best of both worlds. I have 2 great bikes for the price of 1; it is a lot of money, but I save over $ 2.000 a year in public transport for my work and this makes a sound business case even spending $ 12.000 on a bike. Hope to see you all in the fall in the USA when I want to take my e-bike on a trip from New York to Key West along the Eastern Divide Trail.

[@StevieB8363]

There is another option. I use a Shimano Alfine hub, mounted on the bike frame as a gearbox. The crank drives the hub, the hub drives the rear wheel through a second chain. This gives me the advantages of the hub-shift system, and still lets me use off-the-shelf wheels, so I can easily replace the rear if it gets damaged. I could retro-fit a Pinion gearbox to a standard frame, but the high cost of the Pinion, with little in the way of potential gains for a commuter bike means that it does't seem worthwhile.

[@ggregory2031]

I really appreciate the level of detail here. As I prefer a much more intense gear range and quieter ride, the Pinion is my go!

[@IsmailCifci]

not only particular this video, in general most of your videos are really informative. thank you

[@nc7432]

sounds like the rohloff hub is definitely the better option for road cycling/touring while pinion gearboxes may be a better choice for mountain biking where it requires more versatility and better unsprung weight (minus the lack of aftermarket lever shifters but that will probably come in future)

[@Cyclingabout]

You got it!

[@oceanzmat]

Wonderful - balanced, detailed, fair analysis and comparison. Thank-you. Subscribed and looking forward to seeing more of your content. Disclaimer: I've never ridden either the Rohloff or the Pinion and in fact I had never heard of the Pinion before seeing your video. I'm a 10-year Alfine-11 rider considering a new bike with the Rohloff and you have helped me affirm that decision. Cheers.

[@Cyclingabout]

Thank you very much!

[@joebuck4496]

I’m not torn between a Rohloff and Pinion, I’m torn between a Rohloff and derailer…thanks to this video I know that derailer is the way to go, I wasn’t aware that Rohloff hubs are less suited for mountain riding.

[@sharkmentality9717]

Great job again Allycat!! I use a Rohloff with an electric front hub kit. HPC top tube battery/controller bag. Custom reinforced front suspension fork and torque arms. 1000 watt 48v

[@EdgeMasterPro]

Good point. Cheap e bike front hub. I did like the bosh mid drive electric with rohloff integration.

[@alexmorgan3435]

Why not pedal for yourself without a big motor. Lazy.

[@sharkmentality9717]

@@alexmorgan3435 cycling in the mountains of Maine is hike and bike or high performance motors. I chose the latter.

[@s0012823]

I did a lot of research on this like you did on this video. My conclusion was different. Swappability, Price, Weight made me choose for the chain instead of Rohloff/Pinion. I ride with my trekking bike on asphalt and gravel. Chain is fine for me.

[@svenweihusen57]

There is nothing wrong with chain shifting and it is still the most efficient and lightest system. The main disadvantage is maintenance. You can run both system with a belt and that's what cuts it for me. This system reduces normal maintenance to nearly zero because hosing down the dirt isn't really that much of a hassle.

[@simonm1447]

I use also conventional derailleur systems on my bikes, with 8 and 9 speed cassettes. I get between 5 and 7k km out of a Shimano HG 71, and the spare parts are inexpensive at 8 and 9 speed systems. I do not travel the world with my bikes, I use it for commuting and sports, together around 7k km per year. Only the Rohloff hub alone would cost more than any of my bikes costed completely - it's surely a nice hub, but it's expensive, and the main advantage (to use it with a belt) needs a special frame with an opening, which non of my bikes has, so the belt would not be an option for my already existing bikes. Chains need maintenance, but it's not too much.

[@chriscameron4618]

That's not the point of this video! Read the description again!

[@alexmorgan3435]

@@simonm1447 Derailleur chain transmission is a real PITA to maintain hence the need for IHG and belts. Your argument against them is purely on price. You've ignored their design superiority. If you are able to afford them they are far far far better than a derailleur transmission.

[@alexmorgan3435]

You seem to be confused between gearboxes and the means of transmitting the power. Chain/belt transmits the power, the gearbox selects the gear ratio. Clue is in the name. You can use either chain or belt with either the Rohloff or Pinion gearboxes.

[@StephanHoyer]

Have a Speedhub for 18 years now. Some oil leaks at the beginning, but it was retrofitted with new seals and now works flawless for 15 years or so. Can really recommend it. Also I know the inventor of this marvel: Berni Rohloff is an awesome human beeing!

[@elitefamilyparkour]

Rohloff is built in my hometown Kassel, easy win for the Rohloff :)

[@Cyclingabout]

Gotta support the local guys!

[@max-qm3qc]

Kassel beste :) Ich Support meine Heimat am Fahrrad :D

[@Halbmond]

I’m not a mountain biker and I like eBikes with rear hub motors - so that’d only leave a Pinion gear box (until there are more rear hub motors with integrated gear boxes!). In any case super interesting video, thanks!

[@Cyclingabout]

I hope you enjoyed my analysis! 💎 Soooo, which gearbox do you think wins this battle? 🤔🤔🤔

[@idarborlaug]

What about kindernay? Looks very promising.

[@Cyclingabout]

I'm looking forward to seeing the data come out on the Kindernay. I'll hopefully be able to test one too!

[@felipericketts]

I'm partial to the Rohloff. I am looking for a 29er that can receive 3" tires and has a Gates drive system. Any recommendations you might care to share? Thanks :-)

[@swapode]

@@felipericketts I think the Salsa Fargo ticks all those boxes. But it's a drop bar MTB (a plus in my book but certainly not for everyone). A Rohloff Fargo is in my personal dream bike shortlist.

[@albertbatfinder5240]

Really good content, mate. I have never ridden either system, but am thinking of going Rohloff on a Vivente. Interested to know about shifting under load with both systems. Any difference? (Memories of ancient 3 speed Sturmey-Archers haha). Also, would like to donate, but not so keen on the patreon system. Is a paypal regular payment possible? If so, are there advantages or disadvantages for you, PayPal vs Patreon?

[@oilcanracer6388]

For me, pinion gearbox is by far the winner. After going through 3 Rohloff hubs, they told me there is a weight/watts limit. Switched to pinion and no problems. Currently at 35,000k on the same pinion belt drive with little wear on belt. Having the extra gears and super reliability is worth way more than I can describe. I was crushed having to replace, fix, maintenance and afford chain/derailleur type systems. I put way too many kilometers on my bike for that nonsense. Great video and info as usual! Thanks for all your hard work. Like the rest of us, please donate to his fund so this can continue.

[@Cyclingabout]

Stoked to hear you're loving the Pinion. 35,000km is the real deal. If I wasn't riding in such remote areas I'd definitely push my belt to failure to see how far it could go!

[@difflocktwo]

Doesn't look like any donations are needed if you can afford to cycle all day.

[@Cyclingabout]

@@difflocktwo If people want in-depth videos like this, I need to make it work financially. Otherwise, I will have to work on different projects that do pay my way...

[@difflocktwo]

@@Cyclingabout I don't doubt what you're saying one bit. That kind of lifestyle isn't cheap to maintain.

[@alph8021]

Imagine you combine a Rohloff with a Pinion P18 in one bike, you will have 252 gears with 3000% range :D

[@Papi-Oh]

Ok now you just dropped me an insane idea

[@ersonvelasco2531]

Someone did it already btw...

[@knivessurvives]

@@ersonvelasco2531 where?

[@ersonvelasco2531]

@@knivessurvives kzbin.info/www/bejne/m17MmGCIa5qsfsk

[@ersonvelasco2531]

@@knivessurvives but not P18

[@hellosunshine1090]

Either one is a dream for me now. I really appreciate learning about the Tech of Gearbox drive systems for future reference. We still have 5 children at home on a moderate income, so I need to be content with conventional derailleurs, as any Gearbox rig appears to cost $ 5000 +. For now I've built a Hardtail 29 er 1x9 that I convert to Gravel bike via wheelset change similar to your wheel conversion idea you suggest for the Pinion bike. Cheers from Texas - David

[@Cyclingabout]

Nice work on raising five! Your efforts definitely need to be rewarded with a bicycle gearbox in the future. 😎

[@hellosunshine1090]

@@Cyclingabout That's encouraging for sure. They all have raced USAC Road as Juniors / young Adults so of course they can sympathize with the cycling gear addiction, LOL

[@Cyclingabout]

That's awesome. Maybe you'll all have gearbox adventure bikes one day?!

[@difflocktwo]

Nexus 3 is pretty cheap. You could use a cheap ebike kit to flatten the hills too.

[@pcranebmw]

My favorite channel. You should have 500,000 subscribers.

[@dougfromsoanierana]

Rohloff really does stand behind their hubs. I bought a used Rohloff hub from the early 2000s, registered it (apparently the previous owner hadn’t) and Rohloff covered some of the service it required at one of their authorized service centers in the US. I was blown away.

[@marcb1289]

I totally agree: last year, I had a problem fixed 7 years after purchase: it was free, including transport to and from Rohloff facilities in Germany.

[@timangus]

Yep, I returned mine to get the lighter detent spring fitted. They did so, and performed a service, and a seal replacement, and returned it to me, all free of charge. How many companies have this level of customer service for things you bought in 2003?

[@Cyclingabout]

Great to hear the service is still great after the warranty period!

[@GordoGambler]

Nice. But what about I heard that you need to go thru a dealer and can't send it straight to Germany?? Is this correct??

[@pedallinraw]

The mountain bike with the pinion gets my eyes ☺️👌🏻

[@gabewhisen3446]

Brutally honest and fair as a saint. Thanks for sharing this video has solidified my choice for an ebike build there are options for the pinion and ebike but the modern style allows for only one

[@Michael-wn4jj]

I think a hub free rear wheel makes the point. So less mass and friction when the rear wheel is rolling.

[@Velofil]

I had to watch this twice, first for the tech and a second time for the fantastic sceneries! Thanks a lot for both.

[@Cyclingabout]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@conbeaute]

Having the weight at the bottom bracket negates some of that penalty for the Pinion. You mentioned this in the mountain bike section, but I'm not sure that weight is a clear win for the Rohloff for this reason.

[@TheRflynn]

conbeaute weight on a touring bike must be a secondary issue. Touring cyclists could be carrying 3+kg of water alone.

[@derekthompson4561]

I MTB bike and weight is never an issue like it is with roadies

[@rosomak8244]

@@derekthompson4561 Just keep telling it to yourself until you get overtaken by a guy running with his road-bike on the shoulder.

[@mtbkmaniac1]

I've ridden Rohloff hub on an all mountain bike since 2005. Serious competitive, technical riding, all over the west as a 220lb 6' guy. That said. The hub is bullet proof for "acoustic" MTB's! Note: Always shift on the top of the crank stroke and It will shift flawlessly. The question of rear wheel weight. You unweight where you need to. It's a pound! Use the force! Your Camelback bladder more or less full or a seat bag can weight that. The noise in gear 7. I think its cool! If you hate it, just shift. If it were to break. Rohloff internals can be swapped out as a unit, leaving your wheel build intact. Although.. I have sent the wheel to U.S. service (there is only one here!) for seals, maybe every 4 years. They always weep a little oil at the axle ends, especially if you lay your bike over on the disk side.. it may start creeping oil toward the braking surface over time as you ride. If you dont lean it over? No problem, just monitor. The chain tensioner needs lubrication at the pivots. It is rebuildable. The stock jockey wheel's bearings die a crunchy death about once a year due to contamination. You can clean and re-grease them, but I found Rollerboy ceramic bearing jockey wheels. They stay smooth and don't die, like the stock ones do. The wheel strength. The spokes are equal length and tension. Much stronger than wheel builds accommodating a cassette. The Rohloff hub itself is always there, ready. Just lube your chain (I use chain wax), as usual, some Triflo to the tensioner pivot (and sliding surfaces, like your dropper, shock shaft and fork sliders) and go. It has saved me so much money over the years. Previous to Rohloff, I broke or bent 3, 9spd Shimano XTR cassettes and broke the pawls on a Hugi hub, back before 2005 due to torque applied to the rear wheel while climbing. It was such a problem, I went back to 8spd cassettes. You can reverse the chainring and cog too, for double life. Chains are cheap too. Single speed chains are everywhere. I like Sram PC-1 I am building a levo turbo Rohloff and have to relieve the disk side of the frame to accommodate the 40mm dia. torque arm. This needs to be, and was approved through Rohloff beforehand and handled through the U.S. service center. They are called Cycle Monkey. That has been my experience.

[@Visionery1]

Great review, it had me thinking about features I didn't even know I needed. But the price is just too high, in the case of theft the hub costs more than the entire bike.

[@davidlove7038]

I had a Thorn touring bike fitted with a Rohloff gear system. It was great and I rapidly got used to pausing between gear changes. However one problem I did have was that when I just had rear panniers it was quite easy to lift the front wheel whilst pedalling. I have never used a bike fitted with the Pinion system but I like the fact that it sits in the middle, that must help with stability. But then I was very taken with the fact that it was relatively easy to retro fit a Rohloff system to most bikes. Its difficult to choose !! Great review, many thanks.

[@Cyclingabout]

The location of the gearbox will have almost no change in your overall centre of mass (it's important to factor in your body - as this is always the dominant mass). I'd suggest moving some weight from your panniers to your handlebars or fork if you need to keep the front wheel down.

[@GordoGambler]

I fixed that with an almost as heavy SA XL FDD dyno drum brake. LOL. 24,000 miles with only a bearing change at 17,000. Near ZERO service or adjustments needed.

[@larsschmitz4886]

Thanks so much for another great video, Allee. A bit nerdy, but that’s us right? I would love to see the comparison with the C1.12 Pinion. It’s much cheaper and apparently the preferred choice here in Germany

[@pepelkod]

I had a rohloff for a few years and had problems. 1) Oil leaked if I laid it on the side. Got on disc brake. 2) Cog would bite into (thread onto) the hub so tight I could not get it off without a 5 ft pipe. 3) Torque output arm broke my frame. Look into this. The torque output is many times what your torque input is at the pedals. 4) Efficiency 5) Unsprung weight.

[@GordoGambler]

1) Then you have the stupid QR one. 3) The long arm?? What bike? I had my wheel off in Saigon to fix my cog. I forgot to tighten the 6 mm bolt. So the arm was kind of loose most of the way to Hanoi, I think it was. LOL. Before that, I had a motorcycle slowly crash into right where the arm clamp was. Bike jumped a couple inches and I neither went down or broke the chainstay. LOL 4 ) Rohloff is FAR more efficient than grinding deFaileurs on a HEAVYWEIGHT. FACT. 5) BEST place for weight, IMO.

[@TheGeeoff]

@@GordoGambler I've heard Alee cite research that the Rohloff is almost as efficient as a derailleur, but there are many people with both systems who say that the Rohloff is much less efficient. I'm not sure either way.

[@GordoGambler]

@@TheGeeoff Most of those guys probably never rode them enough to loosen them up. Mine has 19,200 miles now, works far better. It is still tighter than my SA 3 and 5w ever were. I sold my last defaileur 4 years ago, none were lightweights. Anyway, my Rohloff bike is never less than 73 lbs, I still do rides up to 129 miles. It goes 15 mph with not much effort when I'm fresh. It is 120 lbs on tour. The ease of shifting trumps crooked chainline double shifting every time. There's guys on the Thorn forum with over 80,000 total miles on 3 R14s. On my first tour in SE Asia, I had occasion to pace a few young Chinese tour guys on MTBs with bikes half my weight. One of those was on a horrible 14 mile stretch of wet clay with 3 hills. My tires were 36 mm, but I still did better up hill. LOL. He could go faster down with 50 mm knobbies. Road was so bad cars could barely go 4 mph. LOL. I could only ride in their tracks and my front fender was clogging up. Actually later, in 2018 on my second tour in the BC mountains, I came upon a 40s guy in lycra on what looked like a fast deraileur setup again. Next day he wanted me to tag along the 60 miles to the next town. He was so slow and or useless, he disappeared. LOL. Half way I stopped for a snack at a campground and saw him disappear again. I did 98 miles Golden to Revelstoke in 13 hours, with 3 miles walking I think.

[@amermeleitor]

What about Shimano (Alfine and Nexus) and Sturmey Archer? They are a lot cheaper!!. Is there any other cheaper brand?

[@TheLaXandro]

@Thierry Kamette One man's crap is another man's "I can buy a goddamn motorcycle for the price of a Rohloff".

[@ropi4524]

Nuvinci!

[@rokitman5753]

NCM PLUS #1ebike

[@fuchsy4498]

@@ropi4524 Nuvincii is very inefficient and Not what you wan't for an Touring bike

[@aprilthetortiecat807]

@Thierry Kamette What? Don't make me laugh 🤣 Shimano is the king of reliability. You can ride Nexus and Alfine for 20 years with ZERO maintenance. Not everyone is crazy enough to pay for those unnecessary expensive gearboxes. Shimano Alfine is the best and most reliable hub gear ever built by man.

[@Pasdechevredreamer]

Thanks for a very informative presentation. For me the wheel interchangeability and ease of removing the gearbox win for me.

[@danielvw74]

Nice comparison, but it would benefit greatly from you calculating and displaying the relative gear inches next to the gear range speed and cadence slide @ 1:31- then anyone can understand how that compares to their regular gear and chain drives :)

[@fixusc]

Cinq make the Shift:r road for Pinion as well. You can for instance buy them as an option on some of the Tout Terrain bikes.

[@Cyclingabout]

Unfortunately, not for the 18-speed gearboxes.

[@fixusc]

@@Cyclingabout ok, good to know. for me, 12 gears is enough and also lighter and cheaper. but still, the rohloff is very appealing, too.

[@Robeuten]

Having 4 Rohloffs, and one P.18 in my household, it is easy: The Rohloff is easier to maintain (getting the old oil out of the Pinion is tedious), lighter, easier to fit to pre-existing frames, and has a MUCH better efficacy. If the heavy hub is an issue, e.g. in a fully - I went for 1x12. Haven't sold the P.18 yet, but thank you for the reminder... (oh, and, yes, my oldest Rohloff was built in 2000, and still doing well, with minimal maintenance - don't know how long the Pinion will last, but the creaky feeling I get when pushing hard does not feel promising...)

[@emcnair2]

Have you sold your P.18 yet?

[@311engineering]

Don’t have either but, preference would lead me to Rohloff. Seriously looking to built an endurance bike this year for gravel/road. Cheers and thanks for an in depth comparison.

[@bigpappahemi4263]

I like them both but can't afford either one. So, there you go.

[@wanderingbox7971]

get a FXE

[@tomfrohlich123]

Thank you for taking the time to make this video

[@2WheelsGood.01]

Sold on the Rohloff.

[@davidspradley9182]

Mr. CYLINGABOUT, Extremely informative! Alas, your intelligent is equal to your funds... again extremely high. Unfortunately the masses can't afford a Lamborghini, that's why we drive Chevys, Fords, Imports, etc., point being most of us can't dream about this revolution. Maybe it will be our great grandchildren's primary source of transportation. I commend your work, it's people like you that change our world for the better. Please keep sharing your studies with us.

[@mrpui6200]

Intro music and opening shot...........well played sir, well played. Love the channel, recent new sub.

[@Cyclingabout]

Welcome aboard!

[@carnicer78]

very interesting analysis, thanks! I am not considering buying a gearbox by now, but in case sometime I do, your video will be of great help. I stumbled upon this video after googling for pinion, which I saw it is being mounted in some bikes of my bike dealer (who was already offering rohloff and shimano).

[@Karrppu]

I hope these will catch on and the prices will fall waay down. Sadly too expensive for most as they are now

[@alexmorgan3435]

Prices won't fall "waay down" as these are highly engineered gearboxes.

[@charliedevine6869]

You could run an Alfine 8 with a front derailer for complete gear range. The Alfine 8 is silent and tough enough for mountain biking. I have never had one fail.

[@davidspradley9182]

karrppu, very true about the cost (I'm poor) as they always say, You get what you pay for.

[@peterklar89]

really very sound report on a high level not often to be found.appriciated it

[@flyshacker]

Beautiful job! Fairly compared. All factors considered.

[@Cyclingabout]

Glad you liked it!

[@mikelole]

I have a Rohloff on my Thorn MTB that I bought in 2009. It has a better range than my mates 1 x 11 or 1 x 12 derailleurs, is more reliable and only needs an annual oilchange. Chains and gearwheels last a couple of years. It is higher in first cost than a derailleur system, is heavier and puts the weight further back. I have had only one problem with it in 12 years, an oil leak, and Rohloff in Germany repaired it at no cost to me (I live in the UK). Cost per year of use is now down to about £100. I'm happy to continue using it, especially when I see my mates bend their mech hangers, have skipping chains, broken chains or lose their jockey wheels, all of which have happened on our rides. It's irritating when people assume I'm on an electric bike because of the large hub. I know nobody who has the Pinion.

[@garyharvey2116]

At that price they should come with a complimentary bike lol

[@hpvspeedmachine4183]

It is cheaper to buy a bike with one already installed!!!

[@shaneruddock5852]

Consider with a lifespan of 200,000km or way further and never having been worn out in rohloffs history also only an oil change once a year there are also over 250 parts excluding individual bearings inside one of these tiny machines that are as genius as a car engine. A lot of man hours and design processing. It's way superior to chain even if slower. We're reaching a stage in technology where a bicycle is actually more reliable than a car. If something goes on my bike I don't need the AA to pick it up or a mechanic anymore. I never pay labour costs anymore I do it all through tutorials on KZbin If rohloff cost 3 times as much they probably could still justify it when something lasts indefinitely there is no price on peace of mind and reliability It really is the most complicated thing like pinion or kindernays XIV which is 14 speed removable from wheel and hydraulic unlike rohloff for same price. I believe kindernay will beat rohloff its new also. Everyone needs a rohloff in my experience or at least Alfine. Beats sturmey. Nexus is easy to work on but won't take you everywhere

[@njm3211]

LOL

[@cooltwittertag]

​@@shaneruddock5852rohloff really isnt less efficient than a chain, in testing theres a less than 1% difference in efficiency

[@robertolou]

Thank you! Great info. in a compact and to the point presentation. Great work!

[@Ducati999cc]

Titanium bike with Rohloff hub is my dream bike

[@kcreative2]

Salsa Fargo with Ti frame with Rohloff and Gates belt drive

[@Luigi13]

Thank you you do pack a lot of information in your videos. I have to familiarize myself before making a choice of which gearboxes would serve me well.

[@hellosunshine1090]

Any updates on the 13 spd Shimano Gearbox ?

[@Cyclingabout]

None yet... I'll be the first to report. 😎

[@hellosunshine1090]

@@Cyclingabout Thank you !

[@Anonymous-jx8mv]

@@hellosunshine1090 You can check a Kindernay new norway hub if you didnt know about this

[@rccmrccrawlermods4517]

Thank you! Great video. I would go with the Rohloff.. I like the ability to change it on different bikes!

[@ChrisPinCornwall]

Both are very impressive engineering, but for me, on a limited income, it seems an awful lot of money just to change gear, which my Shimano derailleur does very well, thank you very mucj, and I am able to repair it fairly easily if it does fail. Having said that, Mark Beaumont rode around the world with a Rohloff, so they must be pretty reliable. Thanks for the video.

[@TheGeeoff]

I don't have a lot of money either. Let's remember that the pros in the tour de France use derailleurs! That said, I am saving and I might make a once-in-a-lifetime purchase of a high quality touring bike with a rohloff or a pinion. I've thought about this for years (maybe a decade) and I have some inheritance money that I might use for this.

[@marsa74]

⁠​⁠@@TheGeeoffThe pros of the TdF use derailleurs that are much more expensive than a Rohloff or Pinion.

[@portnuefflyer]

As a fat (Surley Wednesday) bike rider, converted to e power with a BBSHD, my choice was simple. I can attest to the Rohloff's durability. I'm running up to 1300 watts through it, and ride very steep and rocky terrain often, it appears to be bulletproof. I can only imagine under more normal pedal power only, it'd be even more long lived and reliable. IF I was a pedal MTBR, I'd spring for the pinion though, I did not know it had an even wider gearing spread then the Rohloff, wow. GREAT review.

[@Cyclingabout]

Thanks, your bike sounds awesome! ⚡️

[@julioestebanperezescudero6246]

Have you reviewed the NuVinci ?

[@lars277]

What a diplomat! I kind of figured you would do that, but you are correct. I am a big fan of the pinion. As soon as I use a Rohloff, I will probably see how they are better in some areas. So, I just won't ever ride a Rohloff. Thank you.

[@afreeman1980]

Hmm. I'm still using 3 and 5 speed Sturmey Archers.

[@pocoapoco2]

With a kickback shift.

[@usvalve]

Glad I'm not the only one! The Sturmey-Archer AW 3-speed is also a marvellous piece of engineering, I know because I've disassembled and rebuilt mine. And it beats the Pinion and Rohloff hollow on one feature - cost!

[@moverhh]

Thanks die this enlightening video. I vote for the Rohloff, don't want to loose 10% power in the gearbox.

[@MusikPiratCH]

You should rather test ride both systems before judging this. The feeling on the ride is really something new with the Pinion (and no additional weight on the rear wheel)! A big advantage for Pinion IMHO!

[@routmaster38]

As a poor kid I found the Sturmey Archer hub gearbox more reliable than a derailer set up that never seemed to work properly.

[@rogersmithchiropractic7355]

Thanks good analysis., but what is your personal preference and why? Seems like you use the Rohloff for your big trips, why?

[@shabbar8]

Love my pinion 😊

[@MusikPiratCH]

For me it's also clear: Pinion no question about it! :D

[@moudugenou]

Great video! I am curently looking to buy a Pinion Fatbike and your conten (ALL of your content) helps a lot. When it comes to electric bike, one could say that Pinion allows you to have only an extra rear motorized wheel so you could have an e-bike for your commute and a "proper" sweat-inducing bike for your leasure. Big advantage for Pinion, in my opinion. And an idea for a future video: bars! I am running Jones Loop with spirgrips and i am happy with those but I think a video where you would explore all those bars such are your Koga Denham, VO Crazy, Surly Moloko, … would be really interesting. (I know that you already have an article about this on your website, but I guess some people only discovers you with this channel)

[@Cyclingabout]

I'd like to do a video on the Denham Bars, but unfortunately, the batches usually sell out before they ship, so I cannot make them any more popular than they are. 😂