The Evolution of Arthur & John's Relationship

A deeper look at the relationship between arthur morgan and john marston in red dead redemption 2.
Chapters:
0:00 - John & Arthur's Rocky start
8:01 - Arthur Begins to ease up on John
14:56 - Brothers in Exile
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[@BaconSeer]

Arthur: talking to Rains Fall about the death of his son Rains Fall: mm yes *ginseng*

[@daahorse1652]

I heard that in his voice 🤣

[@Strangleyourfriend]

”Cool story bro but I found some ginseng lol”

[@zerophantomyt433]

I gallop everywhere when on horseback so that happened to me a few times

[@user-xz9fw6lk3p]

"My son was murdered, my lover, murdered, the pain was unimaginable" "Whatever, Ginseng!"

[@fenixchief7]

Drugs bro

[@jonathansummers1988]

Why am I so obsessed with such a simple story? These characters feel so real to me…even playing dominos on down time…I find out things I at one point felt like wasn’t meant to know yet…sometimes I don’t even want to continue the story…I just sit down just to spend time with people just to see how are they feeling that day…

[@cenapsneedshelp]

Because it's not a simple story, on the outside maybe, but on the inside there's so many stories

[@jasonjadrnak6841]

The duality of man

[@fenixchief7]

My Arthur stays away for a month at a time lol.

[@notliked42210]

Simple?

[@rath1764]

"Wait, stop here"

[@Jackfirecracker]

Video accurate - Arthur cut off spilling his guts at 1:55 so a guy can go flower picking. "Oh your son and wife died? Shut up I have weeds to collect for you"

[@fenixchief7]

Arthur, I know you dont smoke ginseng. I know this...but Im gonna get you high today.

[@Zelologist]

They were both such good characters

[@Adam_X78]

Fr the best.

[@lewisjohnston7077]

Great they are both playable characters and protagonists.

[@boxey8147]

Arther: *tells his heartbreaking past about his murdered son and lover* Rain falls: i wanna pick some ginseng

[@shy221]

Rains Fall interrupting Arthur pouring his heart out gets me everytime I play through that part 😂

[@ninzietche]

Arthur and John were really brothers from another mother, Dutch saved both of them young, they both learned how to read and write together, both learned how to shoot together (easily proven due to both of them having dead-eye) But still so different.

[@yourgrandmasfavorite1199]

Deadeye is only a game mechanic that shows how fast/skilled they are

[@A-pizz-a]

Would be epic if they made rdr3 when Arthur and john were young (and close) and the epilogue is when john ran away from the gang for a year

[@mrflamram9966]

Yes, I'm still so pissed. we never got any dlcs for this game. I would've happily paid for a full catalog.

[@EwTZ2xpQwpA]

Essentially every single person John met underestimated his heart and intelligence.. Arthur was the only person that saw him eye to eye. John's unwillingness to commit to the gang was actually in his best interest as well. Dutch's gang put John on a road of mistreatment, gets killed in the end for staying affiliated. His body was seeking safety while his head was seeking family. He had no choice than to force himself to be loyal to everything that was mistreating him.

[@thecowboy9698]

Love is shown through actions. Not words. This is well illustrated between Arthur and John, even though they are fictional characters, but the human dynamics between them is well-written. Yes, there was animosity between the two for a while, like "brothers" sometimes have, but in what you might call "true brotherly fashion" when the chips were down, they were there for each other. Dutch on the other hand, put on a good pretense of caring, and at times had to back it up with action so as to ensure the loyalty of his followers, but when it really came down to it, he was controlling and craved unquestioning loyalty, and that's why he left both John and Arthur to die because they were no longer acting like "Yes" men, thereby showing by his actions that he never truly cared about their well-being, but rather viewed them as a means to an end, because if he truly cared, they could've rightly questioned him, yet he still would've come through for them in their time of need. Actually, there's some evidence of that in Chapter 2, during the mission to rescue both Sean and Micah. Dutch is obviously well-known and sought out by the law, but instead of going after Sean and Micah himself with perhaps some back up from maybe Arthur and John, he instead sends others in his stead, that way they're the ones whose neck is on the line, and not his, therefore I would say Dutch acted the part of a coward, because if Dutch really viewed his gang as "family" he would put himself at risk for them, like any "father" would when the safety of his family is threatened, when a man's family is threatened there is nothing a truly loving father will not do to protect them, yet Dutch doesn't do this. He shows that his "love" has conditions. There's an old saying: "You can pretend to care, but you can't pretend to show up."

[@Dylan8675]

POV you’re the best reddead KZbinr

[@S1llyRaccoon]

Facts, fellow Dylan

[@e.l6666]

Couldn’t agree more

[@cjaydustie1867]

Cynic is the best, love this channel

[@internetguy7319]

me when I repeat the things the game made explicitly clear if you played it, interspersed with literally the dialogue that tells you this

[@GhostRider-on6bz]

As long as it’s not just a “let’s watch the cut scene” fest. Fizhy is very good also. Been at it a long time.

[@stratifacations8377]

"My Partner and son were brutally murdered for ten dol-" "WAIT, stop here i wanna pick some Ginseng!"

[@mattl8774]

Watching John grow into a better man and father was a great part of the story

[@rubenhinze7695]

16:45 John finally making things right with Abigail and having a heartfelt conversation. Arthur: 👁👃👁 The Gang (joyously singing in the background): He RUMBLEd me, TuMBled me, SCRewed me to the WAAALLLL!!! HE F*cKEd me BlaCK and BluE and... Abigail: You mean that? We can be like a normal family?

[@emersonduran9774]

BABE WAKE UP CYNIC POSTED (i legit love ur content

[@ieatcrayons8588]

Love your content, wish there were more like you

[@Kindless_NightcoreYT]

Love your videos and I love John and Arthur's story

[@publicguy1664]

I hope we get an RDR3 which is yet again a prequel, showing the formation of the gang up through the infamous Blackwater event we've only ever heard of in game after it happened. It could show that time John was gone. I also hope we get an RDR1 remaster.

[@Pyrex3421]

Rdr3 should be about landon rickets or jack marston. Redemption should be what main characters achieve

[@zerophantomyt433]

​@@Pyrex3421Jack got his redemption in the first game

[@fenixchief7]

​@@Pyrex3421 if the next game is "redemption." I could see them leaning into new territory, literal and figurative. Red dead revengeance lol. Seriously tho, new gang, true western setting, maybe even have run ins and dealings with Dutch and Colm's gangs. Maybe even go back to the original revolver roots be bounty hunters. I could also see uncle being the protagonist of rdr3. Sky is the limit.

[@Pyrex3421]

@fenixchief7 yeah but rdr2 is already a prequel of rdr1. Also I would like to see how Jack marston story continues after killing ross. Or landon ricketts in his younger years

[@bigtasty2767]

1:35 how doesnt he get more pissed about it? It almost sounds like he laughs a little when he says "for 10 dollars"

[@Mr.Capitalism]

Thats what years of reflecting does to uou it changes your view on things, arthur realized by bekng bad hd shouldnt expect fairytale like life

[@bigtasty2767]

@@Mr.Capitalism beking bad?

[@somedudefromapharmacy]

@@Mr.Capitalismme no no understando ur engrishu

[@somedudefromapharmacy]

@@bigtasty2767Anyways, I assume that is his way of coping. When you are faced with so much hurt, you can’t help but try to make fun of the situation to lighten the burden.

[@lorekeeper2611]

The way I see it, Arthur at this point has come to terms with it. Grief is a funny thing and sometimes it hurts more than others. The laugh he does there seems to me more like he’s reflecting on the absurdity of it and how in the past he would have killed for nothing more than ten dollars as well. It’s showing his growth.

[@Promise679]

I would love to see a video on who Sean would have sided with in the end. It seems like he would side with Arthur but his dialogue on the way to the house robbery made me think there was a complex relationship between Sean, Dutch, and Arthur

[@josephstalin2606]

He probably would’ve stuck with Dutch assuming he didn’t run off before hand (I don’t think he would willingly but Arthur might’ve been able to convince him) because he relished the outlaw life and based on what he says and does and has done I’d consider him a “low honor” character. What really sells it for me is how he tells Arthur that everyone needs to back off Dutch and take a good look at themselves too. Sean doesn’t blame anything on Dutch and he seems to strongly believe that

[@Promise679]

@@josephstalin2606Now that you mention it, Sean would have probably ran off with Karen considering they were a thing. Maybe Karen would have lived a kinda happy life with Sean after the gang split.

[@josephstalin2606]

@@Promise679 I doubt they’re as much a thing people make them out to be. They literally just had a one night stand, and Karen was already drinking heavily before and after his death, she only really goes off the rails after Hosea and Lenny die and the gang is forced to stay in Lakay, and that was long after Sean’s death

[@Promise679]

@@josephstalin2606 She talks about Sean quite often after his death and she sits on his lap as they sing in camp. Sean’s demise is not the main reason she spiraled but it was a reason. Arthur even calls Sean her boy after he is brought back from Blackwater.

[@undertaker3346]

If arthur had left the way john did, john would have probably have taken it way harder. Arthur was the oldest of the two and they were like brothers. Arthur would have been 23 when john joined the gang and john would have been 13 so john probably would have stuck to him like glue since dutch and hosea were basically both of their parents and having another young person thats being mentored and raised by the same two people john would have had a deep connection to him so if arthur took off john would have probably have taken harder than arthur took john taking off. John trying to compare his situation to arthurs situation with mary though it is similar its not exactly the same. abigail wants john to be with them whereas mary left arthur and took off to be with someone else and fair enough someone like her that doesnt approve of that lifestyle if you cant do that you cant do it and she couldnt do it and she basically left him to marry someone else arthur didnt want that to happen whereas john basically wants to get rid of abigail and jack at first.

[@DeviIInADress]

Me realizing I’m not subscribed after months of watching every video multiple times 👽

[@Snob1899]

10:04 Hosea is right, it suits John. And in fact, in RDR1 he behaved like a real man, meeting his fate.

[@jewelboyd3646]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I actually kind of felt more sympathetic towards John than Abigail. For one thing, John is kind of right in being unsure if Jack is actually his. Abigail was a prostitute before joining the gang, and she had sexual relations with several different men in the camp besides John. And it's not like they had paternity tests back then, they were literally just taking Abigail at her word that Jack was John's. Added onto that is the whole issue with fatherhood with John. His dad was killed when he was young and apparently wasn't much of a father when he was around; Dutch is...Dutch, and Hosea was actually probably the best example John would've had, so I can't blame John for not being sure he'd be a good father. 2 out of 3 father figures being garbage is not good odds. And...maybe I'm reaching here, but when I listen to conversations about this whole issue in the game, no one seems to really try and see things from John's perspective. They try to tell him that he needs to step up, he needs to accept Jack as his son, but I felt like that probably just made John feel pressured and trapped. It's entirely valid for him to feel like he's not ready, and trying to push someone into something they're not ready for doesn't always go well. Sink or swim does NOT always apply. Partway through the game, I was just wondering why Abigail was pushing so hard. The more she nagged, the more she scolded, the more she insisted, the more I felt like this just was not working. There are plenty of good men out there, Abigail, so stop pushing so hard or you're going to fricking lose him! Gosh, just get with Arthur if you want Jack to have a father so bad! And it was especially baffling to me after seeing what John and Abigail were like together in the first Red Dead Redemption. I was left wondering how the hell they even made it to 1911

[@Calekoflight]

I've never played RD1 and am towards the end of 2...John saying none of it was real and didn't matter just cuts me to the core.

[@fenixchief7]

1 has an even better story. Its worth picking up

[@Calekoflight]

@@fenixchief7 My main concern with that is I can't see myself every buying a console ever again.

[@alexanderhernandez4733]

It’s a good day when the GOAT posts

[@justsomeguy747]

I personally wouldn’t have minded if John had more interactions with Arthur in Chapter 6 but a story like this should focus on multiple main characters and not give John the spotlight because he’s the sequel’s protagonist. The focus of the relationship between these two is somewhat similar to the one between Arthur and Micah. Ultimately though, Redemption 2’s main relationship is the one between Arthur and Dutch.

[@DUDEWHATDOYOUMEAN]

W video?

[@Red_neck01]

Arthur:😢😢 everyone in my family was murdered my wife son mother Rians fall:SHUTUP GINSEG ACQUIRED

[@Niki_Woz]

I think if GTA move was to be made, it should have its own story like every GTA has its own. GTA V would be better as a series than a movie, there would be more time to show each character and each story line

[@Adarkane325xi]

I can’t stand Jack’s Li’l Lord Fauntleroy outfit.

[@GhostRider-on6bz]

Good reference.

[@Man-lt9hc]

Most KZbin video ever

[@devinarthur6559]

0:04

[@Kadenman]

LeNnYYYYYYYYYYY

[@macsseo]

WAIT STOP HERE🗣️🗣️🗣️

[@Adam_X78]

Howdy

[@Zelologist]

Howdy

[@joni2638]

Howdy Partner

[@infogaraj6542]

Wait how was isaac 19 while arthur was 38 and died years ago when did they have the child when arthur was 12? When did he love marry what

[@heartbust4624]

Isaac's mother was 19

[@D_McGeezacks]

No Eliza was 19. Arthur was likely around the same age, maybe a bit older. Arthur and Mary got together pretty young. They eventually broke it off and Mary went off and got married and likely sometime after that he met Eliza. She could have possibly been a rebound. Arthur was likely in his early 20s at this time. He supported them for 10 years while Mary was married to someone else for 10 years. Arthur likely lost Eliza and Isaac not too long before the story starts, maybe a few years at most. The one thing that puts a damper on this theory is how do the younger girls in the gang know Mary? Unless it was just through hearsay.

[@JamesNorman-rv5rd]

Can you do one on beta Arthur

[@samson312]

this video comfirms John is the rat

[@FloydWilliams-el2rg]

yay im early

[@SUPEREVIL6668]

That's what she said

[@LolCat361]

View 651

[@tammykolu1242]

Johns nlt the most talkative person to though compared to arthur who talks ro much msybe

[@Johnathanbyers]

Both of them are some of the most complex and well written characters in any media. Especially arthur. Breath taking character growth mixed with great personalities.

[@martialfarts4509]

Okay, I think the new best idea for red dead 3 is following an even younger John's time away from the gang