D&D Narration

[@fantasticdescriptions]

"Less is more" is key. I agree completely. Detail implies importance. If everything is super-detailed, the players can't tell what's actually important. Keeping the initial descriptions simple, but evocative is key. Let the players' questions drive the level of detail.

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes!

[@NegativeHeadspace]

Agreed 👍

[@stevefugatt7075]

This has ALWAYS been a problem I have had playing in other people's games: They over describe everything and it gets draggy. As usual, I dig your insight and thoughts on the matter. I follow a similar line of thinking with narration.....This is an incredible video!

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks!

[@MrRourk]

Check out Chronicles of the Outlands...we just posted a couple of new videos. Game has been out for a bit now. Uses short scripts generated by tarot cards. Very different from any other game out there.

[@BanditsKeep]

@@MrRourk That sounds pretty interesting

[@MrRourk]

@@BanditsKeep we are all excited as the Kickstarter for their Super Hero Game Good Guys Finish Last was fully funded in 20 minutes. This has not been in print since 1993. Was called one of the most innovative and original games of the 90's.

[@28mmRPG]

You got it! My 2 rules go like this... (1) As a GM, your mouth is your worst enemy. (2) Go back to your favorite author and recall how he/she describes the scene... yes the players can fill the holes with their mind, and sometimes they might come up with something by asking questions, that might work for you.

[@BanditsKeep]

That’s a good set of rules, as I tend to like older pulp author, short and vague is how they write!

[@doofmoney3954]

I just thought to myself ”it’s been a while since I saw a bandits keep video” and a new one pops up. Nice

[@BanditsKeep]

Perhaps we are psychically linked!

[@gregoryrousseau5155]

Likewise always glad to see a new video! 👍

[@copperclockmaker]

I listened to a bunch of old radio shows, like x-1 and superman, to get a sense of how they narrate and describe things. The thing I found interesting was how much they leave to the listener's imagination. Giving players details so they can ask questions is an excellent way of narrating in the sense that an RPG in practice is a conversation and not a monologue.

[@BanditsKeep]

Oh wow, that’s a great idea - I’ll have to look for some old radio stuff!

[@SusCalvin]

In return, I can make it easy to ask for stuff. There's never any penalty in simply asking for something. Putting an artificial timer on questions always hurts me more than it hurts them. The shape of the room always comes up, because one of them is drawing a map. If there's an encounter in plain sight in the room, they get to know that of course. Rooms often have a couple defining features they notice right off. A giant statue of king Charles, a glowing pond, abnormal chlorine smell etc. The dungeon itself can have a standard feature. "All floors are polished black marble, there are no lightsources or even windows unless I say otherwise." Then I don't need to describe the floor for every dang room ahead, everyone knows what it looks like until they walk into the salamander pen and it's different.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@Frederic_S]

Very solid advice as allways. You have to kind of read your players when they need more descriptions and when they are just waiting for you to stop talking so they can finally cast fireball! :D

[@BanditsKeep]

This is true!

[@bizzy5439]

How I do it! I'll use some extra details now and then for a little flavor and to set the mood, but otherwise you should only really explain the most prominent/important features of a room or area

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@Grimlore82]

Just as van richton's guide to ravenloft is released, an awesome video about narration. So many things go hand in hand.

[@BanditsKeep]

Oh? Very cool, I have not been keeping up with the latest releases. I did run the original Ravenloft last year and it was really fun. I ran it in Operation White Box with the players as World War II soldiers.

[@ryancastilla8509]

@@BanditsKeep That sounds so cool haha

[@BanditsKeep]

Yeah Strahd was killed by a frag grenade lol

[@Grimlore82]

I use a lot of TSR era info, etc. Horror / dark fantasy is my favorite genre of TTRPG. I have not been purchasing the latest 5e stuff. Too much OP creep and HP bloat. Tasha's Cauldron of Everything for example introduces mechanics and moves toward a style of play I am not too interested in.

[@Grimlore82]

@@BanditsKeep That sounds insane! 😆

[@toddsharp4990]

Rule of 3.. I normally will only mention 3 things in a description.. Just enough that the players can 'tag' the person, place or thing in their minds and it will be easy for them to reference later. If they care to know, they'll ask.. You're exactly right!

[@BanditsKeep]

It’s funny, I’ve heard “rule of three“ used for so many things LOL but I guess they always have to do with three of some thing so I guess they all fit.

[@freddaniel5099]

Great topic! And I appreciate and applaud your approach to narration. I like to use my own imagination during play, or when listening to a streaming. Too many details will end up with me mentally disengaging and losing interest. Hence I don't watch the uber- popular "game play" vids that over narrate. Great advice and very helpful!

[@BanditsKeep]

I feel the same as a player - over narration actually takes me out of the game, so I try to keep that in mind when running.

[@NegativeHeadspace]

"Less is more" i knew u were going to say that! Lol

[@BanditsKeep]

😊😊😊😊 if I’m anything, I’m predictable 😝

[@jdsull]

"Brevity is the Soul of wit" but briefer and wittier.

[@RoDaGrier]

@@jdsull Oscar Wilde? Or maybe Shrunk and White?

[@yubeluchiha]

This is how I feel I’m learning this as a dm myself this video needs a update

[@BanditsKeep]

Why an update?

[@Batterydennis]

I stumbled across your channel due to the algorithm. Glad I did, I enjoy your approach and style. Always looking forward to the next video.

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks! Appreciate the kind words, if there are any topics you are interested in feel free to let me know 😊

[@Meeeeeeeestery]

I totally agree, Daniel! And, I must say, I needed to "recover" from the "Critical Role effect" as a DM: all those voices and actor stuff for NPCs isn't effective unless one has players who match the style. Narrative should be emergent, coming from an elaboration of the Q&A between the DM and her players, rather than an artistic performance of the first. Plus...isn't that a huge hex featuring the damn Isle of Dread behind you on the wall??? :)

[@BanditsKeep]

That’s a very good point the DM and players need to find a balance that works for them, a highly descriptive DM with a table of players that just say “I swing my sword” would definitely clash. I wonder if players are less or more likely to narrate freely if the DM “ talks a lot” for the lack of a better way to say it. The map on my wall is Hyperborea from the game Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerers of Hyperboria

[@Meeeeeeeestery]

@@BanditsKeep Of course! AS&SfH! I love that game!

[@BanditsKeep]

@@Meeeeeeeestery Of course now you have me wondering if I could find a large X1 map lol

[@Meeeeeeeestery]

@@BanditsKeep LOL!

[@grumpygrognard7292]

I agree with your point about the "Critical Role effect". Many new players watch these videos and think that that is the ONLY way to play D&D, i.e. that they must speak in character and be dramatic or use accents (basically LARPing). The game was made for and developed by historic wargamers and not by drama students.

[@mikem4432]

generally agree with your video.. at the start of a 'scene' there is a description to set the visuals and feel of a scene.. whether it be outdoor, a dungeon.. etc... then add only dimensions or conditions as the party moves around.. simple enough.. but hard to do well and if your party or group of players is not paying attention... well they always blame the DM..

[@BanditsKeep]

Let’s hope not or rocks might fall 😉

[@al2642]

In the ancestral dilemma between narration (professor dm) and gameplay (you, old school, questing beast) i lean decisevly towards gameplay. As you said, if you have narrative bits, use them. They can only improve the fun. But less is more. I think this also goes for the gameplay side: no need to make a puzzle as complex as the theory of gravitation XD. Also, the type of game and party you have is tantamount to deciding the ratio of your blend. Maybe that's the greatness of this game. It is entirely personal.

[@BanditsKeep]

I agree, the group feeds the table and creates the game/story. So true about puzzles, I find sometimes people get excited about stumping the players, but I feel like puzzles need to be (fairly) simple for them to play out nicely at the table (vs on paper)

[@priestesslucy]

@@BanditsKeep multi layer puzzles are fun, with multiple ways to fail with different results. Setting it up so they benefit from beating the puzzle, but the adventure still progresses even if they fail. The worst puzzles are the difficult ones that are a dead end on a failure

[@fantasticdescriptions]

Focusing on what changes is actually something I talk about in my video on How to Describe a Room - kzbin.info/www/bejne/r4GrnKx7fpKhfbc

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool, I’ll check it out

[@jeffallen559]

I almost think this idea of over narration came from the old modules. A Lot of gm's would read the box text to the players. Always hated that and I would tune it out.

[@BanditsKeep]

Could be! Though I tend to like (well written) box text

[@Fhuul]

Great video as always! It's interesting how most RPG books don't really offer practical advice for efficient and useful narration. It seems very common for many DMs to either over- or undernarrate their scenes, which both hinder the flow of the game. Also, have you considered making an video about making good rulings on the fly?

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank you, perhaps I’m reading the wrong books, but I also find that very few RPG books handle narration or even how to “run the game“ in any significant way. They seem to assume that you would just know how to do it. When you say a video about making rulings, are you saying with examples? Or how I would handle it in a general sense?

[@Fhuul]

@@BanditsKeep Maybe just your thoughts about the "rulings, not rules" mantra. What are the kinds of situations where you make a ruling, what kind of rulings you make etc. I think it would make an interesting video.

[@jayteepodcast]

Like for the thumbnail

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks 🙏🏻

[@patrickrobles1036]

My goal is to get the players to question and transform the environment I've provided, not conform to the details I've thrown at them. I try to give a few details that have a fair chance to prompt those questions that serve to ground the mechanical aspects of the environment, as well as provide a handle for roleplaying or shifts in game-mode (adventuring, exploring, socializing, etc.), or to advance the plot or change the flow of the game. Literally 2 or 3 details is enough for this unless there has been some major shift, and then 1 or 2 more are generally enough.

[@BanditsKeep]

Excellent, sounds like a good process

[@narmuzz2750]

100% agree on this, thanks for putting it into words. At least for me and my players, good narration is collective narration. Also, that way is more fun for me as the GM because I have to think less and don't really know what's going to happen

[@BanditsKeep]

@@narmuzz2750 for sure!

[@patrickrobles1036]

@@narmuzz2750 I think a lot of GMs think the opposite, they fear not having some high level of control will allow things to get away from them. But the reality is that you can get away with far more if you can invest the players in the world building.

[@DarkHorseCom]

Thanks for the video, Daniel. Being a good DM is all in the narration and the creativeness that blossoms from the descriptive artistry of the DM. I like watching your "Actual Play" channel for this very reason. Gleaning style points is an added bonus.... everyone needs to develop their own style and how to relate YOUR world to the players/audience.

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks Mike! I appreciate your support.

[@Lowe505]

i kinda of agree with you but i have to admit i like to have fun with voices and descriptions of stuff

[@BanditsKeep]

That can still be done - as they say, everything in moderation 😊

[@stevenpeterson8582]

DM narration is a great example of Chekhov's gun. If the narrator is taking the time to describe the object in the room, then the expectation is that the object is going to be important and necessary to the plot. When the described object does not have a role, it becomes a narrative lie or a false promise, the "red herring." Too much of that and the audience (the players) will tune out and stop paying attention to the narration. And when too much or too many objects are narratively described it also becomes too hard to differentiate between what narratives are important and which ones are fluff.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@RoDaGrier]

Excellent video. I agree that less is more but let me add my own coupl'a coppers. When I start describing a scene, I have a crystal clear view of what is in front of me, but I realized a long time back that so much detail actually stifles the players imagination. How many times has it been that you have read a scene in a book that was extremely detailed, and your own imagination refuses to see it that way. For me that means that the author has went too deep. I focus on the essential details we all HAVE to share or those details that are NECESSSARY to set the mood. The rest I leave to the pleasure of the players to imagine. An example: In a Stars Without Numbers sci-fi game the PCs met a guide in an urban environment. This was the first non governmental NPC the encountered. I used her to set certain cultural norm about dress and hair style, but I left things like her height, build, skin tone, and "attractiveness" to the imagination of the players. Her attitudes were conveyed through conversation. In an unofficial pole afterwards all the Players described her very differently, but in no way did that detract from the story. Another use of less is more is that you can give more to specific PCs to reflect an expertise. I may tell a halfling player something that is visible lower to the ground, or a gnome player I may focus on a smell (based on a detail in my own games about the curious and experiential nature of Gnomes). A dwarf may get extra information about an underground or stone construction, and an elf may hear things others don't (those legendary keen elven senses). All the classes could also get a bit of info that others may not. A thief may see subtle thief marks (like hobo marks but for thieves) on buildings. A cleric may have a sixth sense of a spiritual disturbance, or the Magic User if it is more arcane. A fighter may be able to tell that the local guard is very green and there seem to be no veterans amid them. All of these things only are special if all the characters aren't aware of them. As usual great video, and very thought provoking. I can't wait for the next one.

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes, class and race-based info is always great. I will often say well you are a cleric so you would recognize that this is blah blah

[@RoDaGrier]

@@BanditsKeep I am rarely a fan of a codified skill system. I prefer implied expertise. I find telling players what they know due to thier class, ethnicity, or background kind of turns them on to thinking in that manner. Then as they have some in game experiences or focus thier downtime I add those new capabilities to the descriptions. Very organic. We say rulings of rules, but after 30 years my rulings are locked into a store of rulings that is nearly a system.

[@BanditsKeep]

@@RoDaGrier I think that if you play long enough, you eventually create your own version of the game. And I believe that that was the original intention of the game. That is, DND is a toolbox

[@RoDaGrier]

@@BanditsKeep I fully agree. I feel to some extent the modern style favors the rule books. That is fine. It is a different style. But it does make bringing in players with that pov a bit of a challenge. With that said I have found more players ready to try that than not. My experience tells me grognards complain about player attitude a bit more than is justified

[@RoDaGrier]

P. S. I love the comment about player skill, but do remember that those skills take time to build up, so you may have to sort of tease it out of players not use to this player style. Don't necessarily hand feed them, but maybe make sure that the don't have to use chopsticks.

[@BanditsKeep]

I actually believe it’s easier with new players to get them to do that, as they are not already exhibiting “bad habits” why did you send a new player to the game I rarely explain any mechanics and just simply ask them what they want to do. When some thing because mechanical I explain it at that moment.

[@krystal2423]

Not much to say. I agree with all you said. lol

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks Krystal, extra XP for you!

[@cameronorwin]

Are you going to continue the mega-dungeon series? Haven't seen anything in a while.

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes! I've been super busy in "real life" so haven't had a chance to make the first level stuff neat and did not want to get ahead of myself, but it has been a while... I'll see if I can get that done soon!

[@Goblinerd]

One of the issues with too much narration is that players get lost in the details and loose sight of what is important. I tend to describe the big picture and leave out the small details their minds can conjure themselves. I'll go into more detail when players ask specific questions. EX: I describe a bookcase in a room. I'll only go into the details of which books and other stuff stalking the shelves IF a player asks about it. Some DMs feel like the players might make a mistake if certain details are omitted, but to that I say that you can warn them after they state the action, before it is actually taken. EX: I describe a warm and dry cavern room with an acrid scent and a large manhole-sized gap in the center of the floor. If a player says "I crawl down the hole" and I know the acrid smell and heat comes from the hole from a pool of acid at its bottom. Well, I'll tell the player "As you approach the hole and lean down in front of it, you feel the heat and acrid smell intensify. Seems it's coming from down there". The only time I will over describe is when I WANT to disorientate them from TMI. lol

[@BanditsKeep]

I agree. That’s that’s very interesting the concept Disorientating them with too much detail on purpose.

[@Goblinerd]

​@@BanditsKeep Thanks. It's not an easy technique, but as you may have noticed, I'm very verbose, so I manage to pull it off from time to time lol Dangling participles are great for this!

[@johnathanrhoades7751]

The best story of a missed detail is my wife's first campaign. The DM forgot to mention the front door. The party assumed that the DM would have mentioned a door if there was one. They ended up making a centaur sized hole in the wall and completely confusing the DM who thought they had mentioned the front door 😄

[@al2642]

Maybe it me, mmbut the video is a bit glitchhy here and there. Never happened before

[@BanditsKeep]

Yes, OBS was giving me a hard time 😶

[@Goblinerd]

Lists of words are good to diversify your vocabulary, not to pad the details in your descriptions. At least, imho. EX: Instead of repeating stinky or smelly, you can say repugnant, nauseating, repulsive, etc. Using adjective sparingly will help punctuate the monotony, but too many and you're back to square one.

[@BanditsKeep]

This is a very good point. Although I try not to change up my words too much because I want them to have definite meanings the players can understand when I say them. - I should say, when I’m describing the same thing I would use the same word I would only change it if the smell changed or if by their action they were in to notice something else get closer etc.

[@Goblinerd]

​@@BanditsKeep Yeah, for me, as long as it's clear whether it's the same thing being reiterated, I don't mind changing it up: You enter a dark corridor... ... as you move slowly down the darkened hallway, you notice... Same, but different lol

[@BanditsKeep]

@@Goblinerd right, my players often lock onto words I use so if I say the hall is dark, then say something like "you feel enveloped in the stygian darkness" - they will note that change - so I better have a reason for it lol

[@Goblinerd]

@@BanditsKeep Yes, but that description change you just described sounds, well, worst (darker, more oppressive), but if you change the word hall to hallway to corridor, I don't think your players will pay it any mind.

[@BanditsKeep]

@@Goblinerd for sure, as does repugnant vs smelly :) that was my point, when using a variety of words, we gotta be careful lol