D&D PALADIN RANKING (part 2)

In this second installment, we look at the paladin subclasses from the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything, and the Dungeon Master’s Guide. We find the worst and the best the paladin has to offer, and the Oathbreaker in particular was a tricky topic for me to work through.
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0:00 Intro
0:44 Oath of the Crown
3:56 Oath of Glory
7:41 Oath of the Watchers
12:06 Oathbreaker
15:53 Criticism of Oathbreaker
18:00 Oath of Vengeance, revisited
20:17 Final Ranking
22:28 Further thoughts on the Oathbreaker
23:28 Conclusion

[@noah509]

I definitely feel like the oathbreaker is meant to be tempting to paladin players, like the dark side of the force. That may just be my storytelling brain that feels that way though; I do agree its immensely powerful.

[@martaneon5310]

Idea for a comedy character: a player with 8 intelligence who is an oathbreaker because he/she forgot their oath cuz they're so stupid

[@swapsplat]

maybe an int of 6 or something. 10 is average, so 8 shouldn't be *THAT* dumb. An oath is pretty important. I do like the idea though.

[@martaneon5310]

@@swapsplat well an 8 is easy to get with point buy. 6 or lower can be tricky given it requires rolling to get

[@esperthebard]

People screwing themselves over due to their own stupidity is a timeless human tragedy.

[@Faircrow]

it needs to be litle bit more darker but i liked the idea

[@pantlessninja4696]

That's pretty much my Paladin right now. He's super dumb and over zealous about his God,he just has no idea he was supposed to take an oath.

[@esperthebard]

Regarding the Oathbreaker's Aura of Hate, I read it as affecting you and your "friends", but actually it's "fiends" (and undead). I suppose the oathbreaker probably has fiendish friends lol. Still a hella powerful feature even if it doesn't benefit regular humanoid allies.

[@milanmarkovic2721]

Well it seems that they got friends on the other side😉.

[@Faircrow]

yep not as op but very thematic

[@ungabungacaveman9021]

Yeah it’s supposed to buff the hateful nature of the chaotic evil undead you summon. At least that’s how I took it, that’s why animate dead is so good use 2 spell slots for animate dead and another for crusaders mantle and now you’re doing an extra 30-40 damage as long as your undead army is up.

[@kevinsmith9013]

I already told you that, lol

[@esperthebard]

@@kevinsmith9013 Is that what you were trying to say? 😆 I guess I misread your message

[@Zthewise]

It is so weird that so many 20th level abilities give non magic weapon resistance when Barbarians get it at level 1.

[@OneSpikeyGuy]

Its weird, but pretty much all classes are front loaded

[@yanderenejoyer]

Even more so when barbarian's resistance isn't ignored by magic weapons.

[@coranbaker6401]

Barbarians get something BETTER at level 1.

[@Nickelback8469]

@@coranbaker6401 not necessarily, you can’t cast spells during a rage

[@Darknight4434]

@@Nickelback8469 he means that they get resistance to "weapon" damage, not just non magical

[@martaneon5310]

Oath breaker is a good option for a magical ronin. They have failed their lord in some way and was banished.

[@benjrc3611]

That's actually a sick idea! I've been wanting to play a Oathbreaker Hexblade for a while now.

[@martaneon5310]

@@benjrc3611 Tulok the Barbarian did a character build for Nightmare (Soul Caliber) that was hexblade oathbreaker

[@StevenMichaelCunningham]

That would be any-thing but a villainous sort. Failure is not deception.

[@Ellebeeby]

Similarly, if they’re subject to a Morton’s Fork like the 47 ronin: “Honour demands we take retribution, but the law forbids it. Either way, we break a code we are sworn to and lose”

[@godless_comedian6667]

My oathbreaker in my current campaign that I've been DMing is now an Oath of Redemption. I used story to make him change and see the error of his ways on his own volition. He stood up to Asmodeus and 1v1ed him in a fight he knew he couldn't win in order to take back his soul. He succeeded in showing his defiance and his courage to want to be redeemed. It was a really big moment in the campaign. This change has happened recently and we've been playing for over two years. It's coming to an end soon sadly.

[@Spiceodog]

One of my players backup character is a chaotic good oathbreaker who used to be a oath of the crown, but his king slowly turned mad, and was overcome with greed and gluttony. As the kings body gaurd, he abandoned his oath and slew his own king, and is now on the run

[@ConnorCoultrup]

Hello Jamie Lanister.

[@Glandulf19]

Noice ! One of my current characters was an Oath of the Crown too, but he realized his Empress wasn't the benevolent heir of the gods she pretended to be but was instead a secular demon, so he broke his oath and is now pursuing ways to enhance his newlyfound necromancy powers ! This is such a cool trope to play

[@Lordmewtwo151]

Chaotic *good* Oath....I'm guessing the DM waived the alignment restriction on that class.

[@Spiceodog]

@@Lordmewtwo151 alignment restrictions don’t exist anymore

[@Lordmewtwo151]

@@Spiceodog Normally no, but OB Paladin is an exception. It *must* be evil aligned. And yes, I did a brief search for confirmation and came up with the following: -From a subclass guide (which admittedly might not be the most accurate): "Interestingly, the Oathbreaker is one of the only...subclasses that have a requirement to take it. *Specifically, a character must be of evil alignment to take the Oathbreaker Paladin subclass.* " (Emphasis in original). -And from Dnd Beyond: "A paladin *must be evil* ...to become an Oathbreaker." (emphasis added)

[@Oannaybz]

The glory one sounds a lot like a greak demigod type character.

[@44tuck3r]

It was printed first in Mythic Odysseys of Theros, and is intended precisely for this type of concept

[@NokMTG]

Yep I designed my gladiator dwarf after a Hercules/ Achilles type bro

[@themicahnism]

Oh shit this was fast, thought we’d have to wait at least another two weeks for the last part.

[@brauliosotelo6526]

oathbreaker aura of hate is fiends and undead not your allies.

[@esperthebard]

I totally read that as "friends" hahaha, well I guess the oathbreaker might be friends with fiends.

[@DrCrypt13]

I'm playing a multi class warlock oathbreaker, for the story so just one level of warlock ( hexblade) to start. Then his conversation to the church, only to see the church's shortcomings and lose hope by third level. He lost his hope but note his rage or the thirst for power to fuel his self reliance. This is not an evil character, but one who appreciates power in all it's forms fight fire with fire. And just dosen't trust the " higher powers". So far this has been a blast to play the Inverness campaign with! Yes this build missed out on heavy armor and other benefits of having more levels of warlock, but a not evil pally necromancer is a riot.

[@andrewthemaroon8608]

@@DrCrypt13 i plan to eventually play an Oathbreaker revenant. The idea so far is that he was an Oath of Crown Paladin and accompanying his King to a really important battle but for some reason (havent worked that out yet) he abandoned his king. While fleeing the battle great storm develops and he takes shelter in a cave and while exploring it he finds its actually a tomb and triggers a trap that causes the entrance to be sealed. The game picks up with the group breaking into the tomb and freeing him only for him to find out 200 years have passed and now he wants to attone but cant because his king is dead

[@DrCrypt13]

@@andrewthemaroon8608 wow sounds great! I think the revenant is a very under used story line for PC. The 200 years is a bit fallout 4, but as long as you address this in story like a 200 hundred year truce, or curse has ended. Then the time passed will serve more to the story than just bringing about your character death, and in life. Perhaps your unearthing could also release other challenges for the party at the dm discretion. I would like to see a party of revenant campaign, because they would be always under the gun to get things done. ( they only have 1 year after being raised right?).

[@andrewthemaroon8608]

@@DrCrypt13 i just threw 200 years out there because i still have like a year or 2 before the current campaign ends so I've only put enough thought into it for a general idea lol. I think the Revenant is under used as well. My group took a glance at it once and just assumed it was over powered and boring while ignoring that with just a little homebrew Link from Breath of the Wild could be considered a revenant lol

[@jinxtheunluckypony]

Paladin is easily in the top three best classes in 5e. It’s an absolute gem.

[@esperthebard]

Totally agree!

[@benmills4358]

Bravo and I may consider being an Paladin who was Oath of the Crown until he got tired of the criminals he brought to justice being allowed to go free. Then Oathbreaks for Revenge.

[@Teufelshund2171]

Great video. Really enjoy playing Oath of the Ancients.

[@Faircrow]

I think oathbreaker still hold a few things to its 'ant-paladin' theme, it has 2 powerfull abilities that depend on fear, all paladins are immune to fear at level 10, the aura of hate make undeads really powerfull, soo if for some reason the oathbreaker fights undead he is going to have some hard time, which is the opposite of other paladins who are knew for being undead destroying machines, now the resistance is really just a free give to make it a powerfull npc =P

[@deadmanmouse2463]

Oath breakers aura isn't as strong as you thought but other wise I agree. I allow the oath breaker at my table but I do add a kind of evil set of oaths to it so the characters still have to uphold something to keep the powers they are given. Great work on the videos.

[@mmmmkaywilson344]

You could play an Oathbreaker Paladin who was a follower of Bane but broke their oath to Bane and run the Oathbreaker as a Neutral Good character, in line with that the features of the Oathbreaker could be seen as using your former Deities own powers against them for good.

[@agilemind6241]

The problem with that is that the Aura of Hate does not distinguish allies and enemies. It gives the bonus to any undead or fiends near you, including ones you could be fighting.

[@mmmmkaywilson344]

@@agilemind6241 Where you see a problem I see an opportunity for the DM to have some fun with this high powered subclass, the DM could use it as a way that Bane, for example, is punishing the Oathbreaker for breaking their oath to him

[@markeyestone9980]

I'd like to try the oath of glory as a sort of divine gladiator or something.

[@Voelund]

Oathbreaker do not need to be evil, he can be a disillusioned nihilist after having lost something dear or being forced to make an immoral choice ( in her or hos view) by his former patron. He can try to denude religion wherever he see it for what it is (or he think it is) and stand up for free choice. Many of the spells could be used to combat the charisma and divine magic of clerics. It would be hard to play it as a nihilist but not impossible.

[@agilemind6241]

"Many of the spells could be used to combat the charisma and divine magic of clerics." Not really, most of them are Wis-save based which clerics are amazing at, and clerics will obliterate your undead army in a single action. Oathbreaker is extremely weak vs a cleric.

[@jessewilliams3166]

Technically, I find oathbreaker can easily be seen as neutral or chaotic character instead of evil. Breaking the bonds of law in pursuit of another cause, or even having your oath taken away by someone who can give or take oaths for some corrupt reason. Thus your pursuit of power to spit the oath takers begins. Like oath of conquest or crown can easily become evil, so breaking their oaths makes you evil-er? I think it lends itself to a neutral paladin just as well as a fallen hero

[@phelps6205]

The thing is, oathbreaker has a really bad name, not all paladins who break their oaths become oathbreakers, it is reserved for particularly evil paladins, imagine a conquest or vengeance paladins breaking their oath for giving mercy, they would most likely become redemption paladins, or other equally good subclasses, not oathbreakers, you don't become a fiend and undead lord by being good just because you were not good before.

[@dizzykincade7831]

There are a number of channels that cover DnD/Tabletop play that are very good. You’re videos stand out amongst even them. Keep up the good work. I hope you get the following you deserve.

[@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet]

My initiative roll was high on this video. Thanks Esper

[@moonlight2870]

Oath of Glory title is 'Hercules'. He even has the lion on his shoulder.

[@enddorb]

Honestly, oathbreaker feels less like the kind of design I'd expect from an oathbreaker than it does feel like something I'd expect of a death Knight, a paladin following a God of death, or in general just someone whose role was unabashedly to slay others in the name of the mights of their God. In comparison, I'd imagine an oathbreaker to be a more fiendish, tricky type, who specializes in worming their way out situations slyly. After all, they broke their oath and yet are not only still standing, but still magical

[@patrickbuckley7259]

Honestly this is the best argument for an alternative to the Oath Breaker that could be Neutral or even good. Almost everyone else is suggesting characters who would become fighters upon breaking their oaths as per what the book suggests. This I could see as a Neutral or even Good aligned character suing the sub class. Though all the stuff that buffs fiends might buff celestials instead it you serve a Neutral or Good aligned Death God. Well unless they are like the Warden of Hell or something like that.

[@firestorm165]

Didn't oath of glory originally come from odysseys of theros?

[@chillycharizard5985]

Yes but I think they reprinted it in Tasha's

[@samtheactualkenku6205]

Yes, the reason it and the Eloquence Bard, Spores Druid, Order Cleric, and the Artificer as a whole were reprinted was so that they could be Adventurer's League Legal, which is to say setting guides are not acceptable secondary books for AL games, but books like Xanathar's Guide to Everything, Volo's Guide to Monsters, Mordenkainen's Time of Foes, and Tasha's Cauldron of Everything are

[@mindlessscientist3772]

@@samtheactualkenku6205 I wonder if they'll ever do away with Adventurer's league, I've seen a lot of people that hate it

[@redfaux74]

I'm shocked to NOT see a monk type martial artist, psionicist mixed with some deity of wisdom/knowledge Paladin. The mental path seems to have been banished from 5e. I couldn't live without it. My Mind Flayers were not typical monster manual material. And Aboleth..... 😳 end of a lengthy series in a campaign for sure.

[@elijahtiemens5532]

I love the music in these videos.

[@AnonZeMouse]

Possibly worth mentioning that the Aura of Hate doesn't differentiate between friendly fiends or undead, and the ones that are trying to kill you. It can make you a huge liability on the team in a campaign with lots of fiends and undead, especially when it becomes a 30 foot radius.

[@AnonZeMouse]

Could have some interesting synergy with the Dhampir and Reborn UA races for your allies though?

[@jcdenton2187]

@@AnonZeMouse Unfortunately no longer, because for some reason Wizards decided they're just humanoids... even though the entire point was to be able to have undead type player characters. Why, Wizards. I am very surprised the Oathbreaker's Aura can benefit enemies like that. I almost want to think it was unintentional.

[@AnonZeMouse]

@@jcdenton2187 Yeah, it's a shame, but I assume it was for streamlining and to get rid of the confusion for how things effected an Undead/Construct and Humanoid target. It's a shame because compound monsters could have been cool, and I'd have preferred pure Undead or Construct Dhampir and Reborn to Humanoid And I assume the Aura is like that due to being intended for NPCs or a cost for the use of darker powers. Doesn't help that the Death Domain Cleric doesn't have a similar weakness though

[@josemariosmarjassi947]

Well I always thought that aura of hate was named that way because one might have a tendency to be cruel and hurt more those they hate.

[@puppetgeneral39]

4:14 Braggarts

[@esperthebard]

I'm a glory paladin ... I'm kind of a big deal.

[@pricefairbanks7079]

Good job on the video love the work you put out

[@gigition2405]

this a great video I appreciate all the effort you put in. thanks man.

[@-POISON-]

I really wanted to play a fallen aasimar oathbreaker paladin for a while. But I have been in 3 campaigns where someone played that combo and I've lost interest. I'm looking forward to playing an Oath of the Ancients half-elf dexadin in an upcoming campaign. I don't personally know anyone who played this subclass so far.

[@mattc4857]

I ended up making an oathbreaker for my friends own D&D world. The character was once a servant of a lawful evil army that was conquering the land. He eventually betrayed that malevolant nation in order to help save an entire group of people, thusly breaking his oath though, for ultimately a good thing. I seemed that it was an interesting way to flavor an oathbreaker.

[@stavros2956]

Wow this came out so fast dude, i can't keep up with all this great content.

[@EzraeL91]

We want Oathbreaker revised! PS: Great video!

[@darthremy1802]

Yeah! finally someone giving oath a Ancients some love it's personally my favorite. As a side note I'd love to play an Oathbreaker one day but most DM's outright ban Evil characters and as a forever DM I don't blame them, it can be hard to trust and Evil PC not to ruin a game.

[@DerKaetzer]

You Sir have one of the most wonderful voices I've heard on youtube. I would be delighted to to hear you sing, bard! (with or without Beethoven :D )

[@bloodyirishman9155]

Oathbreaker...the guy making the enemies stronger. Take a knee buddy I'm going to need a better Paladin for my team, lol.

[@HiopX]

I think the Oathbreaker is misnamed. Why would a Paladin grow in strength after they broke their oath? The oath should be evil and selfish from the start. Maybe Oath of hatred?

[@jigokusagent]

I tend to think of it in terms of unbounded power. In 5e, the paladin no longer requires a higher power to grant them their gifts; they more or less spontaneously erupt from "the power of true conviction" or "righteous fury" or however you want to spin it. It comes from within. If someone were to harness that power without the limitations of an oath to curtail their actions or thoughts, they could become even stronger. And if they used those strengths to increase their own power, like learning a bit of mastery to increase the power of undead under their command (potentially on the path to becoming an immortal lich) or falling in with bad sorts like fiends to gain even more power, I could see that snowballing into what we see. Sort of an alternate version of a martial-focused warlock.

[@HiopX]

@@jigokusagent It doesn't come from within. The oath is technical a contract a Paladin makes with the weave and is registered in Mechanus. And there is a type of Inevitable (Kolyarut) which sole purpose is to punish oath breakers

[@EskayRogue]

You can make a good oathbreaker, take for instance a paladin who used to be an oath of conquest paladin for an evil god, and decided to break his oath, and go against that god, possibly lending itself to a chaotic good oathbreaker.

[@NokMTG]

No love for the Heroism/ Glory? That's my pick for my dwarf gladiator :p

[@victordavila9812]

I really like the oath breaker for a dark or gothic campaign a shadow sorcerer an oath breaker and a necromancer wizard in curse of strahd for example would fit very well as antiheroes

[@patrickbuckley7259]

Oath of Glory is a really neat take on a Paladin in the way the Ancient World would have seen such a figure. It is more about greatness and power than what we would call goodness, yet it still carries a bit of this in it's name Oath of Glory. The modern conception of GLory is in many aways no such thing, but rather Vainglory which is fame sought out for our own benefit, however the classical ideal of Glory was a bit different, to be Glories was to seek greatness and coduct oneself with valor, not for ones own benefit, but for the benefit of all, to inspire others to great acts of courage and heroism. As such it certainly still embodies the spirit of the Paladin in it's own unique way. Notably there are a few Greecian Warrior Cults you could base an Order of Glory Paladins on. The Sacred Band of Thebes comes to mind.

[@jacinsertnamehere8407]

an interesting idea for an oathbreaker is a character that was originally an oath of conquest, vengeance, or crown seeing the flaws in their ideologies, or even an "heaven is the real asshole all along" story where a holy warrior saw the consequences of their devotion to a twisted god, it could add to some excellent flavor or really propel the story in a mystery-esque or grimdark campaign

[@danagroupsrl6613]

Third and thanks. Oath of Glory is my second favorite because this is how you make a true neutral paladin that's not boring.

[@nicolasreinaldet732]

One day i will play a paladin oath of the conquest/bard college of lore, he knows what is best for you and he will inforce it like it or not.

[@braulioservodedeus]

Oathbreaker really is ridiculously powerfull. Case in point, one of the PCs in my party was "possessed" (long story) and, mechanically, that meant staying in the same level, but changing subclasses. And boy, oh boy, did that PC outperform the rest of the party! For my campaign and story it was actually great, but I can definitively see how it can be problematic in a "regular" scenario.

[@Fey_Yoshida]

I pIay an oathbreaker, and...... I actuaIIy find that the power IeveI is VERY dependant on one thing......... "are you facing things that resist Necrotic?"

[@Fey_Yoshida]

Which, Fun fact, You’re gonna face a lot of those.

[@tombaker3731]

Maybe the solution to the Oathbreaker conundrum is to have it so breaking your oath actually converts you to a fighter or other non-magical melee class/revokes all of your "divine" abilities, but then allows you access to oathbreaker as something you can start multiclassing into. It's a sloppy solution but I can see a fallen paladin who loses it all and then dedicates themselves to gaining dark powers purely out of spite. The weaker they were when they fell, the more room there is for evil to grow, or something like that.

[@StevenMichaelCunningham]

Easily one of the finest classes any could achieve. 🤸

[@spacebatman961]

in one of my campaigns I've played a oathbreaker in a party who was mostly good and neutral. My character "Asteras" was betrayed by her own god, send to an unwinnable war to die, after that event she never was the same, so she started seeking vengance against her own god, by breaking her oath and going on a terrible crusade against all the cultist of said God. even if she was really chaotic and have some cuestionable methods, she really get along with the party, because deep inside she still was a good person

[@nicolasreinaldet732]

24:00 guys we have found one palabard. Personaly i think in IRL it would be great if everyone just roleplayed constantly as a paladin, think about what is right and wrong and about what you should stand for, find the values you defend the more and stand by then. May god bless you who have read this.

[@madsam7582]

I have a player running a good Conquest Paladin. He is alive in a time where the world is divided, and he is trying to reunite the warring factions. So his conquest is actually a good one.

[@madkarl4052]

Nice choice of music with the 5th at the beginning. Esper the Paladin ? Nah.. It's too stern and serious for you :)

[@deansummers4234]

I played a drow oathbreaker paladin who broke his oath to Loth and reflavored the damage and themes to radiant/holy as a pseudo redemption theme.

[@ulvene5763]

Regarding Aura of Conquest, Frightened enemies in the aura have their speed reduced to 0, and this has devastating implications for enemies whom you knock prone. While a creature is prone, attack rolls against it (so long as the attacker is within 5 feet) have advantage. Attacks from any farther away have disadvantage. But in order to stand up again, a creature must expend half its movement speed. From D&D Beyond: "You can't stand up if you don't have enough movement left or if your speed is 0." See the trap? Your aura reduces their movement speed to 0. This means that an enemy that is (a) frightened of you and (b) caught in your aura cannot get up. Doesn't matter if they're a peasant or a dragon. They will be stuck, kneeling before your terrible power.

[@ironreed2654]

A.J. Picket wins monsters hands down and WebDm probably has general play, but there's still room for these ranking videos if they came out more often. Gotta focus on what you do best.

[@svartrbrisingr6141]

Another thing with the Oathbreaker. Yes its very powerful and tempting to keep going with it. But I personally dont like the idea of choosing or keeping a subclass just based off its abilities. Dnd is a roleplaying game. You make a character and you play the game as that character. My Lawful Evil Oathbreaker despite having a lot of power thanks to breaking his Oath seeks to redeem himself as breaking his Oath was a minutes lack of judgment. I play him as a defender. Someone who despite being evil tries to do the best things he can. Yes the fact that he broke his Oath does cause problems but it also adds more depth to him. And one day he hopes to redeem himself to his goddess returning to his original Oath. That of Devotion. Sadly on the verbal community of dnd my thought process seems to be in the minority as people seem to only want to go with the strongest option for the reason of "Its the strongest. Why go with something weaker?" Of which is sad and goes to show just how far RPG games of any kind have gone into become more Action games.

[@DarkSerapheim]

Thats a cool twist on the oathbreaker. I disagree on the community though. Most players I know dont care about power as long as they are not a burden to the party. I think its because its easier to discuss and quantify classes on mechanical capabilities than on RP. I'd love to see and participate in a community of players seeking to better their RP sides.

[@alexandernelson2422]

Hey Esper, I realized that you misread one of the oath breaker features. The Aura of hate bonus features only effect yourself and undead including undead that aren’t allied to you.

[@user-vm9xz4kv9z]

....And fiends

[@alexandernelson2422]

@@user-vm9xz4kv9z thank you I forgot about that.

[@nicolaezenoaga9756]

Thanks.

[@moumantai6337]

like the chapter setting Oath of the watcher is a stronger version of cavalier from BG2

[@mythwrighter1451]

Idea for a character Be an oathbreaker that broke there oath of evil to be a good guy you also forgot Oath of the Open Seas

[@dane-banks]

I play a lawful good Oathbreaker paladin and I have been loving it so far. My character was forced to break his oath and so he has the oathbreaker subclass. Personally, the character doesn't like using his necromantic/evil abilities, but will if necessary. Hoping one day to redeem him, or, if he dives into the dark side, keep it until the end.

[@jimwolford7294]

Aura of Hate for the Oath Breaker can't be turned off. So any fiend or undead within 10 feet of your paladin has a bonus to damage, even if it targets your paladin. Your character broke their oath, now the fiends have come to collect your soul...

[@Torthrodhel]

As per you talking about the appropriateness of Oathbreaker features... it is possible to have a good-aligned Oathbreaker. Maybe your oath was expected of you, forced from you... maybe it's the only way you ever knew at the time, maybe you changed character away from a bad oath you once swore to uphold forever, or maybe you were tricked into swearing an oath you didn't comprehend the consequences of. I have a derro character who swore an oath of conquest and broke it when she made friends with the surface world creatures she was meant to prove herself by subjugating. Her Aura of Hate is fuelled by her intense hatred of would-be conquerers and her supernatural resistance makes sense as a blessing from the peaceful druid grove she defended against her own invading people. Still an oathbreaker, though. Still swore her oath and then broke it, whatever the details. Chose the subclass for the flavour rather than the power level. Now realising how powerful it is, I'd discuss with a DM ways I can ensure not to be min-maxing it before beginning a game with that character. I don't really like being overpowered, it can make things less fun. I'd want to reassure someone I wasn't building it for that reason, and set some choice limits with that in mind.

[@isthisajojoreference]

I think the Watcher's Aura of the Sentinel should be renamed to Aura of Alertness and it should give immunity to being surprised.

[@chadnorris8257]

Vigilant rebuke would be awesome if it included constitution saving throws. You're concentrating on a spell, and rebuke enemies as a reaction every time they attack you.

[@genxmonk2669]

I dislike the Oathbreaker because back in the beginning, if a Paladin broke their Oath or acted contrary to their alignment, they were reverted to a Fighter until they undertook some sort of Act of Contrition. The Anti-Paladin was introduced through a Dragon magazine article, specifically Chaotic Evil and specifically diametrically opposing the Lawful Good Paladin. This is one of my "get off my lawn" topics. Paladins should be required to be Lawful, in order to take an Oath and if they break that Oath, they are no longer a Paladin. Personally, a Paladin I play will always be old school Lawful Good. They are the original Holy Knight, existing to destroy evil and bring order to chaos.

[@shorewall]

I agree. The power of a Paladin comes from their oath, even in 5e. If you swear an oath, and your whole identity and powers come from that oath, then you really have to be lawful. And I say if you break that oath, or even fail to live up to it, you should not be empowered. You should have to prove yourself in order to obtain and keep that power. Paladin is really powerful and cool, so it can stand some restrictions in order to give it its own niche. A Paladin competes with Fighter and Cleric for space, so it needs its own identity. Same with Ranger, that competes with Fighter and Druid for space.

[@kevinsmith9013]

Oath of glory art looks inspired by traditional depictions of Heracles (yes, the original Greek)

[@Hadex79]

Having seen some other oath-bound characters in other games I have to wonder if the oathbreaker shouldn't have been the weakest option. The fruit of breaking your oaths being that whatever empowers you stripping you of your powers save the lingering remnants, and have other options reflecting oaths sworn to dark powers (maybe bake them into interpretations of the other oaths).

[@jigokusagent]

At my table, all of my players make fun of the Oath of Ancients paladins and call them nerds. I'm trying to design an enclave of them to be the coolest, raddest characters, and this series has helped a lot. Thanks!

[@jamesbolt1003]

Give the ancients palladian 10 levels in moon druid. Extra attacking smiting powered wild shapes (including elementals) are no joke. Everyone is gangster until a fucking bird with flyby swoops in, hits you for 4d4+10d8+4 on crit then sores off 60 ft in the air away from you. Or, when ground moves up to punch you TWICE for 14d8 + 5 on crit (7d8 base) all while packing spell damage resistance, most CC immunity, and resistance to non magical damage.

[@koolaidserpent]

For the Oath of Glory, maybe a, Cavalier? As in their attitude.

[@zeketerry3419]

Oath of Glory AKA the Glory Hounds!!

[@lt.branwulfram4794]

I do have another roleplay option for the Oathbreaker: someone who saw the folly of destructive oaths like Vengeance or Conquest, broke them and would be stuck with necrotic powers despite wanting to atone for the supposed crimes they committed whilst sworn to those oaths. This is all just my headcanon, of course.

[@shorewall]

I believe that if your power comes from your oath, then if you break your oath, you should lose your powers. Simple.

[@agilemind6241]

That would be a Redemption paladin, not an Oathbreaker. Oathbreaker abilities: mind control, raising undead, scaring creature, buffing fiends & undead aren't beneficial to trying to atone.

[@imoweenlodestone5447]

I developed 4 different paladin classes, I like these but for the campaign world that's was riddled with war. Each of mine had to be unique, you can level up to 20...sub classes, I might can use these demonstrate the change that happened in the world, what do you think

[@intoHeck1964]

I feel like an oathbreaker doesn’t need to be evil. What about one who was betrayed by a corrupt order and swore to destroy it, this breaking his oath. Or maybe he was naive and realized that it wasn’t what he wanted

[@deantitus9734]

If I'm not mistaken, the Aura Of Hate also includes that the paladin, as well as all nearby fiends and undead, gain a damage bonus equal to your Charisma modifier. I'm just surprised that you didn't even bother mentioning that because it can affect the party dynamic very adversely!! All the fiends and undead can attack the rest of the party with that damage bonus!! Does that sway your opinion of that subclass at all?

[@Whightknight16]

does Oath of the Open Sea count? or should that be covered and graded as seperate?

[@lordadamant8182]

Thoughts on the Oath of Treachery from UA?

[@Icebrick2]

I played a Crown Paladin myself. I hated it and switched to Oath of Glory and was much happier. The spells are good, but the first channel divinity is situational, the second gets really weak at higher levels, and the other abilities range from meh to bad. So yeah, I agree it's quite bad, if anything it's overrated.

[@Sunmourn]

Oath of glory feels like someone gave a knight the super soldier serum lol

[@benjaminramos3289]

I just find it interesting that when the question of being an oath breaker comes up that the character is automatically evil, that doesn't always have to be the case. Say if your character made an oath to an evil deity and then broke it, wouldn't that still constitute as an oath breaker or say if you failed in your oath to a deity you served. I mean I can understand why people would immediately write of an oath breaker as an evil subclass with all of its spells and abilities leaning more toward an evil spectrum, but I feel there are ways to be an oath breaker paladin and not be evil. That's just me though.

[@xenoblad]

5:02 * lands* My knees!

[@declanfoster7720]

My concept of a Paladin, or just Charisma casters in general, is that their power isn't necessarily derived from the forces around them or a deity that chooses them as an avatar, but rather is a manifestation of their own will. Bards change the world around them BECAUSE of their sheer likability, Sorcerers bully the Weave into changing the very nature of a spell itself, Warlocks are often persuasive or deceptive enough to at least amuse a higher power, if not outright tricking them for magic. And Paladins? Well, their mission is one of Focus. Commitment. and SHEER FUCKING WILL. They don't need some silly god to get in the way of their mission, because they are just so goddamn dedicated to it. anyways, that's why oathbreakers retain any power at all, and just kind of represent what happens when someone who's that driven just... stops one day. It makes sense that temptation could be the most powerful enemy of a holy knight, not some weird looking demon lord. Thanks for coming to my Tedtalk

[@Jasonwolf1495]

Honestly, oathbreaker should be a counter class, not a subclass. Being a Paladin who turned their back on their order should have space for a character who believes the system messed up and is still trying to do good. If I'm say a watcher paladin and the order is sitting around twiddling its thumbs waiting for the next attack from hell while monsters from our plane are sieging a nearby city, I should have the option to go oathbreaker as a Paladin who thinks the order is the problem not the idea. The oathbreaker essentially should act as an alternate class that only Paladins may convert to and then have subclasses within it based on what oath you broke or how you broke it. If you broke oath to give into evil then yes there will be a full evil paladin slayer subclass, but I want something like "The Renegade Knight" where you were in an order, but now have decided its rules were too limiting for the goal you believe in or a "Forgotten" subclass where maybe you were partially corrupted (like maybe a mind flayer has mutated your form, but you managed to retain control) and your order won't keep you because you're part monster, but also won't kill you out of respect for who you were.

[@corinnebloom7005]

That would be interesting

[@gustavogarcia8783]

I really like the tenants of the Oathbreaker, like the "the gods lie, the power they give was already yours to comand". It strikes me as a CN Anarchist. Not necessarily evil, but refusing to obey the opressive gods and their rules!

[@svartrbrisingr6141]

Also to defend Evil characters. Alignment is not simple. An "Evil" character doesnt always have to be the stereotypical Evil. That what Lawful, neutral, and chaotic are for. At least to a degree. Evil just means that you learn towards the dark more then the light but arent grey. So when playing an Evil character it just adds roleplay potential just like playing a Good character would

[@Lordmewtwo151]

To everyone talking about non-evil Oathbreaker Paladins, please be warned that you (and your DM if he/she/they allow this) are breaking the official rules: -From a subclass guide (which admittedly might not be the most accurate): "Interestingly, the Oathbreaker is one of the only...subclasses that have a requirement to take it. *Specifically, a character must be of evil alignment to take the Oathbreaker Paladin subclass.* " (Emphasis in original). -And from Dnd Beyond: "A paladin *must be evil* ...to become an Oathbreaker." (emphasis added)

[@lucascomable]

Maybe the paladin tenets should depend on what Deity they serve.

[@Business_Skeleton]

Then what do you do if they serve no diety?

[@RoninCatholic]

Honestly, an Oathbreaker Paladin should be intentionally _weaker_ than the other types of Paladin, not equal. The threat of having your existing Paladin powers replaced with the Oathbreaker if you refuse to follow your vows should be a threat, the evil supernatural powers worming their way into the holes where your stripped divine powers were yanked out being an existential fear.

[@buckhunt6832]

But what if you were already evil and break your oath to become good?

[@shorewall]

@@buckhunt6832 If your power comes from your oath, and you break your oath, you should lose your powers.

[@someguynamedsomething9612]

@@shorewall from a lore perspective yeah but it's kinda bull from a gameplay and story perspective for any character development to stop you from functioning

[@buckhunt6832]

@@someguynamedsomething9612 yeah I agree, feels very 'old dnd' to say "you broke your oath for any reason, lose all powers and be useless"

[@malcirhodes3]

Oathbreaker does not always have to be evil, it can just be an outcast or someone who hates what their oath have done. Basically vengeance or conquest paladin realizing they were wrong, but accepting the necessary evil to fix the world that was broken due to their previous actions.

[@redfaux74]

And I can't see why a deity of song (spec in bards) couldn't have a Paladin.... A great DM with imagination would allow it. My goddess of Luck did in my campaign. He was Keiran, a half elf, half halfling specializing in the sling, knives with the best of both worlds (pluses with the short bow and short sword) and movement of the elf.

[@billymiles6870]

I feel like the Oath of Vengeance spells are what pushes it over the top over all the others. And the level 7 ability can be used to block an enemy from escaping. Like you hit them and their movement is 0 so they are stuck, and then you move to the side of the exit they were moving to but not out of melee range. And the fear mechanic can work in your favor if you position yourself right. Say you keep 4 enemy's from moving because they are feared. Now tell me how Oath of Vengeance is not number 1?

[@jonathanstern5537]

I think you can have an oathbreaker paladin as a non-evil character. For example, let's say you have a redemption paladin who escaped slavery as a teenager, and he sees the people who enslaved him loading up a ship with prisoners. She slaughters the slavers freeing the prisoners. She keeps telling herself that her motives were good, but Pelor knows that her primary reason was rage, and he removed her powers turning her into an oathbreaker.

[@patrickbuckley7259]

I feel like this one would be more of a temporary power loss, you'd need to completely abandon your Oath or twisting it into something really messed up to become an Oath Breaker. A lot of people are also missing the fact that even the book suggests if you are not going evil when you break your Oath, you should become a Fighter not an Oath Breaker,

[@stephhanley3167]

The Oathbreaker subclass makes little sense in 5E, since alignments for mortals are basically a thing of the past. A paladin of an evil deity can take all of the same subclasses as champions of good and neutral deities as well.

[@brunop.8745]

Okay, but how do you justify all the good tenets that you *have* to uphold, lest you lose your powers, while serving an evil god, *WITHOUT* massive leaps of logic and mental gymnastics

[@jugujugu1]

@@brunop.8745 reflavoring

[@brunop.8745]

@@jugujugu1 say that again but slower and out loud

[@jugujugu1]

@@brunop.8745 on second thought, point understood haha

[@coranbaker6401]

What I don't get about the Oathbreaker, is the way it clashes with the variety of oaths. What if a formerly evil Conquest Paladin broke their Oath because they didn't want to be evil anymore? Then having all those dark powers wouldn't make much sense.

[@seancreppel6833]

Are we ever gonna get a druid ranking?

[@wavecycle]

Oath of Crown is really not great, but getting Spirit Guardians is insane. The damage output + control with that is pretty nuts. Ofc only from level 9...

[@1000rogueleader]

What about the paladin of treachery?

[@Coridimus]

Glory Paladins. Clearly inspired by the great Heros of Greek mythology. Perseus, Jason, Achilles, etc.