Dado Duel--Which is faster: Router or Tablesaw? - WOOD magazine

[@johnbednarski2169]

This was a treat to watch and I picked up a few tips along the ride. One lesson I took from this - and I do appreciate this comparison - is that woodworking should not be treated as a race. At around 19 minutes of the stop clock, it seemed that the router operator swapped hands/handles while the tool was running. If the tool slipped, you might ruin that expensive bit, maybe even the router, or worst of all, injure yourself. It sure didn’t look like a safe technique to me.

[@scarecrowzero84]

I measured the width of my dado shims with a digital caliper and wrote the width on them with a sharpie to save time.

[@kd7kmp]

This was really quite fun to watch. I don't know that the time savings on one method versus the other is so important. One big concern that wasn't mentioned is dust (waste) management. The table saw will have much better dust management than the router. There are some routers which will collect the dust, but more often than not the dust and chips fly when using a router. An additional point is that a dado set will last much longer than a router bit. There are many more cutting edges on the dado set than a router bit.

[@Noeman2009]

kd7kmp In some parts of the world, a table saw is not an option because most of table saws require at least 1800VA. A table saw that accept a dado blade is also more expensive than trimmer/router (Table Saw $ 170+ Dado Blade $ 80 VS Trimmer $30 + Router Bit $ 4).

[@lelandwight8362]

I would love to see a dullness comparison after X number of feet dadoed

[@jeffeberl12]

Something that wasn't mentioned, using the router leaves your table saw available during the whole process. For a bookshelf, it may not matter, but I've seen plans that had to do some backflips because the simplest way was to cut, dado, cut, dado, and they instead flipped everything around to just install the dado stack once. Plus, I'm often doing more than one project, and I might need to quickly cut something square while in the middle of something, and I wouldn't want to mess up my dado cutting setup, etc.

[@theonoeldetilly5599]

Excellent video, gentlemen. As an aspiring amateur woodworker, you've given me much to to think about. I see the value and benefits of both approaches. Thanks

[@AndyRuinsTheClassics]

This was really helpful. I have a beat up old tablesaw and a beat up old router, and couldn't decide which one to invest in. A good router with guides and that jig seem easier and more versatile in my small garage. Especially for larger projects like a bookshelf, I dont want to be pushing big boards through the table saw, struggling to keep them tight to the fence. Also an outfeed table would take up a lot of space too...

[@jefflebowski4110]

You won't catch my hand passing over a dado like that, I don't care how low it is... brutal!

[@danielwheelwright2572]

I cringed every time

[@ronsmith8650]

How does the quality of the dado cuts compare (i.e. are the bottoms as flat on the table saw cuts as they are on the router cuts)?

[@crisrody852]

A little late but yes

[@ThomasVant-du2lj]

Very easy to understand. Thanks.

[@ephraimvivian1]

Just wondering how long it took to make that jig ,add that to the time ,also the table saw is a lot more safer to use

[@bobbg9041]

I would say your view in safety is your personal comfort with each tool.

[@jeffoldham3466]

the metal t square jig ,,where did you purchase it

[@faramol]

How can I make a 1-1/4" rabbet cut? this cut are for door jambs, to assamble the jamb and the header. Thanks

[@crisrody852]

Router with a fence / Table saw with a dado set / Router table...

[@RADCOMJ1]

I was pleasantly surprised that the time difference wasn't significant. would have been nice to look at the actual finish. Horses for courses and cost. it was nigh on impossible to get a dado stack on a home table saw in the UK until recently. As well as the cost differences pointed out by @UCgnIXGyQS7sXtst6ZbdfOtw below. Additionally depending on the size of the piece it may be better to take the tool to the work. An informative video, thanks.

[@bareegogingenandre]

In europe the point is moote since dados are illegal for 2 main reasons, the mass of the dados are not compliant with the compulsory brakes and after a dado accident there is nothing left of the appendix to put back on. Having said that I find the router allright, because you get used to think in those terms. Along the wall were I have the miter saw I have a 1 meter long jig hinged to the wall. Permanently set up with a very cheap router with a good proper bit. I use a lot of MDF so the bit probably costed as much as the router. Point is the setup is allways ready while with a dado I wood need an tablesaw to achieve that.

[@fred_derf]

+Eg, writes _"[…] and after a dado accident there is nothing left of the appendix to put back on."_ Appendix? Just what kind of dado accidents do you have over there in Europe?

[@bogeyboy4044]

Incredible video and testament to both your skills. Really fun to watch...I felt like calling my bookie and placing a bet. Thanks again guys

[@jeffoldham3466]

where did you get the t square fence

[@jimzearfoss777]

Does the quality of the cut enter into your evaluation?

[@necrojoe]

This was the comment I came here to look for. I wish they had covered that aspect, because what good is saving a minute if you have to spend 20 repairing/sanding, etc.

[@timelmore2]

There was a bit of wobble on the router when he was cutting those rabbits. It was way less wobble than I would have had, but it should still be accounted for.

[@bstr3000]

well you're not racing anyone when doing your routing, haha

[@drflfonseca]

Good works guys. I like it very much. Thanks.

[@thomasd9827]

What it really comes down to is work-flow. Ripping on the table then going over to the router table saves a lot of time in set up.

[@HTTAPBIH]

Woobler dado is what I use. Easy to adjust width without the shimming hastle. Tuning to exact material width is very nice. I think it can beat both metjhods.

[@danburch9989]

I have an "exact fit" jig ready to go for cutting dadoes and rabbits. So building one is not a factor anymore. That takes several minutes if you have to build them. How many of us have the boards cut and ready to build a jig? Also, the clean up passes makes you cut each dado 2x. Is the clean up pass really necessary? With those two thoughts, I would think the router would have been faster. Still, it's an excellent video.

[@mikel4510]

Using a router table and fence is much faster than a dado set with a table saw/fence. No jig needed, either. :o)

[@dekurvajo]

That was my first thought too.

[@mikel4510]

Attila Szabo - I don't think it really matters. Not many woodworkers are really in a race. Once should use the tools available.

[@dekurvajo]

"Not many woodworkers are really in a race." -which helps to keep all the fingers too

[@Psychlist1972]

You can't make those dados on a router table with a fence. He's basically building a bookcase and the distance from the first to last dado is a couple feet.

[@claudeperrault4164]

Hands over the dado blades?

[@MaghoxFr]

I don't have a table saw, and I don't really plan on getting one. Watching the router guy was great.

[@richardmadsen115]

I have both but prefer using the router with my jig. There are times when I like to use my Dado blades also, I have special router bits for the thinner plywoods.

[@aj.8665]

Dust collection is a huge issue not mentioned, Table saw with Overhead Dust Guard leaves almost no dust to content with, not quite the same for router even with dust port connected.

[@anthonyhenderson2132]

Great video - very informative

[@alexfang5661]

I have a Sawstop...changing out dado to a regular blade takes forever because I’d need to change out the brake cartridge too. I prefer the Festool router with a track...

[@bobmac004]

It would be nice to have the chance to try a dado stack but they are not permitted in the UK. Bloody health and safety

[@gotmunchiez]

Interesting but not a very fair comparison. Unless it's the only ever time you'd be cutting dados (in which case you probably wouldn't buy a dado stack either) then the time creating a router jig shouldn't really be counted. Most dado router jigs are a lot quicker to set up and use than this one. It should only take a few seconds to set up each cut and those clamps made it look a really clumsy process. For the price of a dado stack you could buy a dedicated router that's ready to just pick up and plug in, then setup would only take a minute to set the bit depth (assuming it isn't already set from the last time you used it). With a decent jig ready to use you could have cut the time in half. Sorry if my comment seems a bit negative but you made the router look really hard work!

[@TheBikerScout]

+Chris Hardy That's actually not a bad idea, to have 4 or 5 routers at the ready. One would probably be permanently mounted in table, as most people seem to have that set-up. The other 4 could house various bits to aid the order of operations in your project. No stopping for bit changes, or jig set-ups. He did kinda look like a bad infomercial comically over working a router. "Are you tired of clumsy, heavy routers? Then a Table Saw is for you!" His segment should have been in black and white.

[@suziepark7476]

I'm an amateur, but to create a non-standard dado, I use the closest bit size that's narrower, a clamped straight edge, and long varying thickness shims that are skinny pieces of scrap lying around - and I've also used a plastic school ruler and probably an index card, and just make a second pass putting the shim between the straight edge and the router - the shim seems to like sticking to the router's acrylic? foot and gliding along the straight edge. I also tend to make dados along my 8-foot plywood, then cut my plywood into sections (e.g. for drawer pieces) so a jig wouldn't be practical though I think jigs are cool. Got to admit seeing that table saw just glide through in one pass is a treat. I make a lot of passes with rest in between to prevent chip-out and preserve my cheap dado blades. Of course, I've built an 88" wide vanity and 8-foot tall oven cabinet without a table saw, so I am indeed a crazy person :)

[@wallstreetcrash1]

Thoroughly entertaining... Yay.. the Table Saw wins..!! so happy just purchased a £700+ table saw... Wait for it..? The best part they don't sell "Dado sets" in the UK. ( Still Banned ) DOH...

[@jerryhubbard4461]

The table saw wins hands down. As for the router, which is a must have piece of equipment, it also had to use a special tool and table saw to finish the project. I will take the dado set anytime for this project.

[@JohnMartinez-sm1sk]

Good video

[@frenchriversprings]

If they had to make 50 panels, the dado would win by a mile

[@TheOgaboga]

thats absolutly true. for one time use i would say that the router i slightly infront, for whilst it is slower it looks a lot easyer to set up. but as you said if this was a mass production, the dado stack would crush the router.

[@ildefonsogiron4034]

Why did Jeff not use a router table?

[@TheBikerScout]

Router is safer. Table Saw guy had to lean over the open exposed blade many times. You don't actually need a Table Saw to be considered a good wood worker. In fact, with a router, track saw, miter saw & band saw, there isn't much you can't do. And if you want to get into fine wood jointery, just adding a Wood Rat or Router Boss to your collection, you'd be unstoppable. All without the need for a dedicated table saw.

[@thomasd9827]

Only thing that a table saw makes easy is ripping sheet.

[@josephhfry]

Not really... track saws make breaking down sheets easier than a table saw in many cases. Where table saws shine, in my mind, is anything I do on a cross cut sled... and ripping narrow stock (which is tough on a track saw).

[@PMELKUS]

I would not change out the dado blade when coming to cutting the panel into two, I would have lay it out flat then find the center and set up my edge guide and just cut it with my skill saw but that's just me.

[@barstad-9591]

Rockler sells a set of router bits that are the same size as various plywoods (3/4, 1/2, 3/8 - I think those are the sizes.)

[@ephraimvivian1]

barbara kvistad ,the 3/4 plywood isn't actually 3/4 , use a 3/4 router bit and the fit will be sloppy

[@BRExteriorPro]

What size is the 3/4 plywood ?

[@Xorobabel]

@@BRExteriorPro Actual thickness of 3/4 plywood is usually 23/32

[@kevinbinnie881]

All good except the time (and $$$) it took to make the router jig...

[@crisrody852]

If you plan working with a router, you'll make a adjustable jig or even buying one with stops.

[@Beecher_Dikov]

How many are you cutting? One? Router. Mulitiple? Dado.

[@istvanszentmiklosi1975]

THANK YOU!!!

[@MrRShoaf]

I suspect that a table mounted router with a nice fence would probably be faster. Also consider if the contest compared a Skillsaw vs. a hand held router. Methinks the router would again win out. How about a CNC router?...

[@crisrody852]

1. Table mounted router would be slower than the table-saw, unless your bit is exactly the size of your cut (moving the fence lots of times) 2. Skill saw would be a terrible idea for a job like this 3. CNC routers tend to take a lot of time preparing the files in the computer, and it's easier to do the Dados and Rabbets in the saw/router, leaving the really hard to do cuts for the CNC/laser machines.

[@dirkvercauteren6386]

What was not discussed: the material to be processed. A router will be dull more quickly in melamine than a dado set on a table saw.

[@theTORTUGAZUL]

Wasn't the addition of a shim on the table saw unneeded? I wouldn't think it would need such a tight fit being that you are going to glue it up anyway. That shim looked paper thin.

[@margoyoung2009]

That's the difference between a wood hacker and a true craftsman

[@Diamondblade2008]

I think this is too subjective to say the least. I am sure there are some that prefer using a sawbench to cut dados over a router and vice versa. As long as the quality of the dado is good; frankly it really doesn't matter what method you use to cut that dado.

[@jasonb4350]

First the dado is much faster this example was poor the nice thing about the router jig is you can make a perfect fit on those oddball thickness boards but if the wood is 3/4 and the dado is 3/4 table saw is much faster and if you think it's dangerous find a new hobby

[@jasoncsullog3741]

While this was a fun duel, to be honest if you are using your router to cut dados you will most likely have a jig for this and not build one for the task right there. I made the mistake when starting out by purchasing a table saw that can't accept a full dado stack. So router it is. Was fun to watch!!

[@mickleblade]

+Jason Csullog for some strange reason dado stacks are illegal for sale here in europe so routers it is.

[@superhall229]

They seen you all drive soooooo........NO DADO FOR YOU! Just kidding, that is odd. You can't order one on the net?

[@suziepark7476]

I'm guessing their table saws wouldn't accept the thickness of the dado stack either so no illegal smuggling either :) I enjoyed this video quite a bit even if it's not based on the real world where you'd have your jigs, etc. ready to go and your test dado cut would 75-95% be the correct thickness from the get-go.

[@the_sharp_carpenter]

Use a milled 1" sacrificial fence then no need to shut down the saw and measure just add 1" to all measurements. or take 10 seconds and remove it. fun video.

[@jeffeberl12]

Except the kerf of the blade changed a bunch too, since the arbor was on the side away from the fence.

[@the_sharp_carpenter]

Ahh, I'm used to a right tilt saw the distance doesn't change due to the flange on the right side. Fun video.

[@canaan5337]

Both roads will take you to the same destination but you're going to make better time and hit fewer potholes on the road you drive the most

[@Ikkarson]

oh and by the way, in Europe the duel would go something like "... and the winner is the router. 'coz dado blades are not available for safety reasons." win in less than 15 seconds.

[@SridharJayakumar]

How's a Dado blade any dangerous than a regular blade? Because of blade height? I haven't used one, so my question is totally out of ignorance

[@chipperkeithmgb]

you are wrong you can get them i use one all the time

[@suziepark7476]

Had no idea - saving you from others' potential failures I suppose.

[@BRExteriorPro]

Why ?

[@danielwheelwright2572]

@@SridharJayakumar they are dangerous because you have to remove the blade guard or riving knife to use them therefore making you more at risk of kickback

[@brianh2798]

Ditch the loud horns.

[@jjforeal2]

To be fair either the router should have got a table, or the dado should have been in a circular saw.

[@christschool]

If Jeff had an MFT and router track, I'm pretty sure he would have smoked Kevin.

[@sajidrafique375]

I like table saw always

[@ishortland]

Festool MFT/3 with guide rail and an OF1010 router will beat both. With flag stops set for each dado. Really quick.

[@brandoneckert8102]

yeah tablesaw! my heart was pounding every minute

[@tufankilinc636]

I think the outcome would have been different in favor of the router if the shelves would have been 6' tall. Good video! Thanks, fellas!

[@goldendogwoodworks6675]

i do not care how fast, only the quality of the work

[@crisrody852]

You'll end up caring about speed and how much you can produce in less time and with a safer method.

[@cowpiecowboy7599]

Well if your really trying to save time and set up just have two table saws one dado dedicated done deal..

[@leonardwilson980]

I would rather hear a table saw run than the whine of a router. The router whine is more destructive to a person's hearing (don't ask how I know). There's times when I use the router, but its when I have the table saw set for certain operations

[@fisharmor]

It boggles my mind that in the year 2015 neither of the men in this video is wearing mouse ears. I wear mouse ears when I have more than a couple nails to drive. What are these guys thinking?

[@mikel4510]

William - a sound's frequency does not make it more or less destructive to a person's hearing. The sound level and time expose to it is the dangerous part. Rule of thumb is to wear hearing protection any time you expose yourself to a level of 80 db or greater - that's about the sound of a freight train 100 feet away. There's more to it than that, but it gives you a general idea of when to wear your hearing protection. Damage to hearing is usually at a certain frequency range, but it is the sound level, not the frequency, that does it. Fisharmor - mouse ears are less effective at reducing sound levels than almost all insertable styles of hearing protection. The goal is to reduce the sound level to below 80 db. Wear protection suitable to the hazard and will get that level down.

[@fisharmor]

Mike L, that's not correct. Even a cursory search shows that the sound reduction is comparable. Now mind you I'm going by what gun enthusiasts have to say because they're the first page of hits - there's nothing on the topic coming from wood enthusiasts, because they tend to say things like "there are many forms of hearing protection available" instead of just agreeing that it's important to protect hearing.

[@mikel4510]

fishamor - that IS correct. I lived and taught hearing conservation for the US Navy and for a large integrated blast furnace/steel mill for 45 years. Noise reduction is not a linear measure. Sound at 30 decibels is about 10 X louder than at 29 db. Reduction is the same ratio - about 10 units per decibel. Mouse ears and foam plugs average about a 25 - 30 db reduction where flanged rubber plugs average any where from 32 to 35 db reduction - that difference is huge. Suggestion - ask your gun nut friends to learn what they are talking about before you spread the same myth. But I agree with you on your stance concerning use - use hearing protection in the shop, and the "pros" showing up on YT should be doing so, too. Wood magazine's videos are very disappointing in that they may start out saying the words, "be safe", they are anything but. I can't wait for some poor soul new to the world of woodworking to follow the examples set by nearly all the video creators and then sue for loss of hearing or fingers or homes because the newbies followed the examples of the 'pros'.

[@blva888]

Once the router jig is made you don't have to make it again which will make making the rabbits and dado faster.

[@dreamkiss4u]

to me it was unfair because the guy with the router had to build a jig assuming someone dint already have one and the other guy did not build a dato blade zero clearance cap for his table saw if we are assuming that someone does not have one then both should make there things not have one build one and the other already has one and does not need to make one

[@kickpublishing]

Wrong question - which tool is more appropriate and safer for the task should be your first question. I swear Americans would use a table saw to open a can of beans if they could. Here's a good rule of thumb, whenever you find that the task requires you to remove the guard, riving knife or use a dado blade then the router is the correct tool for the job. Workshop accidents in the USA are FAR FAR higher rate in the USA than they are in Europe and misuse of the table saw is mostly to blame.

[@theTORTUGAZUL]

A little jealous because your country made it illegal to use dado blades? At least here in the US you have the option to use whatever the hell you want.

[@kickpublishing]

Dado blades are not illegal in the UK dumbass

[@theTORTUGAZUL]

I've read various comments to that affect, but I guess I was mistaken. I've read that it is difficult to use, being that the table saws that accommodate dado blades are very expensive. BTW, here in the states we do not use table saws to open a can of beans, dumbass.

[@versatileduplicity9313]

A table saw for sure

[@whosaidthat5236]

Meanwhile 5 minutes in a half decent hand tool wood worker has 2 of the dado done already with just a hand saw chisel and hand plane router. Oh scrap pieces have been done the hand tool guy is now on his second to last one ... now don’t get me wrong if you have lots of these to do yes use power tools I’m not one of those crazy old school guys. Also the table saw should have won if he ripped his piece in half then went to the dado set so he wouldn’t need to change the blade twice , and if you say it’s not safe to cut small pieces like that. Then stop working

[@agalligani]

Uh, ok the table saw cut.... using your fingers? Seems like a safety violation.

[@burtburtist]

dado any% speedrun

[@waywardspirit7898]

Interesting duel. I'm surprised the dude with the table saw still has fingers left considering the way he pushes the wood "over the blade" barehanded like that. . Dangerous. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m4bHgpKhYsiHbc0

[@crisrody852]

Ok, it is amazing to see a race with such narration. But this was fucking dangerous and nonsense. First of all, the one who preffers a Router will use a router table and have the jigs and fences ready for use, as well will the table saw user. For safety? Both have the same level of danger, and if you do not rush and work as you should, no problem will happen. But the damage from a table saw tends to be bigger than a router table. With one does the better cuts? Neither, in the end the result will be basically the same, a lot more dust and noise from the router, but with ear protection and a good dust collection system, both will give you the same results.

[@Drew.Joseph]

I'm shocked you didn't use a push block on that table saw. Crazy

[@LarryB-inFL]

WAIT A SECOND! Why was the table saw blade change from dado to regular blade included in the timing? It STARTED with a regular blade on it, and the saw could have been used that way for the final panel cuts. And, Jeff never did that work at all, so it was not included in his timing.

[@EmoFox9]

Shouldve cut all the rabbits at the same time to save a bit

[@glenntanner3]

Seems silly to make all the table saw adjustments twice. Why not have both panels cut then make rabbits and dados in pairs? Optimized workflow would have reduced a lot of time.

[@BRExteriorPro]

I agree

[@gptour17]

a fair duel would have been with a router tabla and fences! faster and most important way safer!!

[@suziepark7476]

Aha! Right you are.

[@MrMojo271]

Why did he create the router jig first? Most people would already have an exact width dado jig made. Also, use a pattern bit instead of a bushing. My $.02

[@bobbg9041]

Now change tools and redo the test.

[@jonbraid2520]

Very interesting video! However, I disagree with the outcome. If the router guy did the top rabbet first, then used a DADO OFFSET JIG set at 12 inches, he could have used the offset jig for the subsequent dados which would have saved a HUGE amount of time! This method would have really, really embarrassed the table saw! Im a hobbyist, I have a tiny garden shed workshop, minimal tools/ equipment, no qualifications or training and could easily turn out that work piece in way under 10 minutes using a router, circular saw and some very cheap, simple jigs anyone can make! I believe they had to go very easy on the table saw guy due to the mass of table saw fans who have large workshops and very, very expensive table saws, they would be utterly mortified to learn how much faster a router and circular saw can be without sacrificing quality or accuracy! Manufacturers want us to think that we simply cannot live without a table saw and need bigger and better all the time as it's a huge industry! For a fraction of the price of a reasonable table saw you could buy multiple routers and circular saws all with different blades, bits, even jig attachments all ready to go to speed up the process even more and still have money spare! I use a lot of sheet material and I sold my table saw after years of frustration and I have never looked back! It's now cheaper, safer, less mistakes, much less hassle, faster, more accurate, more space and I have never done anything where I think "I wish I still had my table saw".

[@michealhill7816]

Jon B Your correct in many ways, but once you own a quality table saw it makes work easier and safer. I used to get by without mine, but now it's definitely a staple in my shop. I mostly use circular saw when I'm out on a project or when I have my table saw set up while I need to make a clean cut for something else.

[@peterfitzpatrick7032]

... because speed is sooo important for a DIYer... 🙄

[@bigpapaporsche1]

I am shocked that you guys would reduce this topic to a Foot Race, sad! I would have preferred a comparison of the 2 methods, focusing on the benefit of each, i.e. Pro vs Cons, etc. This video should have been a learning experience, pointing out the different methods/techniques of each. Interesting also was no mention of the safety factor etc. I understand that European Laws don't provide for Dado Blades use on Table Saws because of accidents. It is my personal opinion that both methods are good and there is a time and place for both!

[@154Jamesp]

Performance is similar. A router did the same job for 10% of the price of equipment and is also portable.

[@Blinkation]

im scared shit of the table saw, i rather use a router and keep all my fingers.

[@bstr3000]

i use to be too, but after having a table saw for a while, it is not too bad. If remember to always use blade guards and push sticks, the table saw is much more efficient (and less dusty) at cutting compared to the router

[@TSLEctOR]

Why do he puts his fingers over the blade. Accidents happends :) Gooooodby fingers.

[@fred_derf]

The saw won by a minute, now do a real test and make sides for 10 cabinets.

[@BoluwajiOmisore]

I think a table saw vs router would also being interesting.

[@bearup1612]

it is pronounced re bate rebate not rabbit a rabbit is a furry little critter

[@horseblinderson4747]

Rabbet.