Daenerys in The Winds of Winter - livestream

[@godji9396]

This guy is very relaxing to listen to. I often just lie in bed almost asleep listening to him going over ASOIAF theories. Respect

[@JoeGamer81]

He's the absolute best. No one else comes close

[@justincurll1110]

Check out his other channel, The Well Told Tale.

[@AminTheClub]

I literally do this all the time lol

[@godji9396]

@@JoeGamer81 Alt shift x is good, but with him I actually have to watch the video and see the pictures lol

[@jenniferkelly3941]

I do exactly the same Viktor AI ! Often I do fall asleep (I’m an old woman) a fan of GoT. I wonder how much one learns listening, when sleeping? There was a fad for sleep learning in the sixties. Don’t hear anything about it these days though!

[@zachgibson8876]

Literally the best youtuber ever. Intelligent conversation, respect, great theories, and a soothing voice. The best.

[@justincurll1110]

As always Robert, I appreciate how practical your viewpoints and theories are. This shows you understand the story George is telling. Tinfoil can be fun, but gets exhausting and often just shows a lack of awareness, so logical channels like yours are always refreshing. And yeah, I'm stuck working at home so it's great to have an increased amount of content. Thank you so much for your work to keep us all entertained!

[@AndrewK23777]

Dany's arc in TWoW is certainly a very intriguing one , personally it seems so much to move forward in Winds to be able to wrap up in ADoS ; she has to deal with the whole Dothraki issue , wrap up everything in Mereen and Slaver's Bay , deal with a few other Free Cities and leave a proper structure there in place for her to depart for Westeros. Which may not sound like a lot but these are huge complex events and arcs to deal with , along with so many other arcs of big size and scale in the same book all needing to bottle neck for ADoS. Going to be quite the massive effort to achieve that. Brought up in the chat one thing I have to address is in no way to I see Dany going anywhere near her S8 show arc. Book Dany has done too much good to skew that far heinous. Of course GRRM will have her likely being more ruthless and aggressive to achieve her ends and in GRRM fashion most every character including Dany will have to make tougher and tougher moral choices and enter more gray area territory as the narrative advances. But looking at Dany's body of work / achievements , for one knowing what is like to be practically a beggar , vagabond , downtrodden , taken advantage of and at the whim of others gives her that extra layer of compassion. But looking at some of her main objectives and actions freeing slaves / abolishing slavery , reforming the Dothraki practices in a very positive way for those Dothraki following her (no more raping , pillaging , reaving anywhere near the same previous levels if at all) , her not cutting and running on the mass of people following her when things got tough and / or to get after her own Westerosi ambitions , caring for the sick etc. Of course she had to do some ruthless violent actions along the way but no way it goes from the good she did to full queen of the ashes monster abomination the show gave us ; literally on purpose destroying the city she covets , after it surrendered and all the defenses destroyed , to kill huge parts of her own army and countless innocents. Just no way it is going there. If the city is destroyed by Dany be it ousting fAegon or Cersei (most likely fAegon) it will likely be unintended collateral damage like hidden wildfire being ignited unintentionally or deliberately set off to frame her to look a monster.

[@darth856]

It seems to me that there is a Slaver's Bay as Dany's Iraq parell going on, and if so, it is possible that she might not leave anything stable behind at all, but rather a mess. At any rate, I doubt the Meereen storyline will be tied up as neatly as it was on the show, with her just sweeping in with her dragons and fixing everything in five minutes.

[@carlrood4457]

Here's the thing. She sees herself as a savior of the people, but also someone with an absolute right to rule. However, she's a conqueror and has to go against her instincts when actually ruling. What happens when the people ALREADY have a savior who's doing right by them.

[@anonmouse6337]

@@darth856 GRRM has said Meereen is NOT an Iraq allegory. There's an interesting essay on Tower of The Hand that looks at the parallels between the Meereen story and the American Civil War, which I think is the more likely source of inspiration given, y'know, the slavery.

[@anonmouse6337]

@@carlrood4457 Isn't that assuming there will be such a savior? I think there's clear hints that fAegon will be popular with the people but there's also evidence he'll be an ineffective ruler. And Cersei has already proven herself to be ineffective. Anyway, I disagree with your framing. Dany doesn't see herself as having a right to rule everything. She feels Westeros is her birthright, which it is. Similarly, she is a savior of slaves and a thinks it is her duty to enact justice, but I don't get the sense that she feels she is The Chosen One.

[@210SAi]

Look at ALL of what you list that still awaits her before she can even start to consider a successful trip to Westeros. I didn’t watch season 8 but given all the tasks that are awaiting Daenerys I could see it wearing her down and changing the way she thinks/acts.

[@kimbohendo6993]

daenerys saved my life, world class character, i miss her so much.

[@danielbroome5690]

I definitely accept that the house with the red door is likely the sea lords palace and the lemon tree in the garden, but i do also wonder why the books remind you at least twice that lemons dont grow at the latitude of Bravos or its equivalent latitude in westeros and yet Dorne is so famous for lemons they have a house with them on its banner. Abandoned plotline maybe where he changed his mind or was just gardening and leaving his options open?

[@kyanchambers260]

Idk but I certainly don't think she was in the palace. The palace is MASSIVE and ornate and she simply describes the house as a tall stone house. Idk if it's in Dorne but its definitely not in Braavos IMO

[@danielbroome5690]

@@kyanchambers260 the hat people hang the sealord palace on is that he has a greenhouse which is the only place in dorne with trees, though no lemons are mentioned. Thats really the only shred of physical proof of the story Derry and Vyseris fed her. Sure they have a marriage pact witnessed by the sea lord, that plus trees alone isnt proof that the theory of her living elsewhere is false. It just makes her living there plausible and in line with what two people with agendas told her. Obviously they were there at some point at the end of Derrys life for sure then got kicked out but that doesnt mean they were there from the time she was a baby. The only thing that needs to happen at the sealords palace is signing that marriage pact and derry dying in a bed there.

[@danielbroome5690]

@@kyanchambers260 If she did live in the sealord palace for the red door memory then it MUST be a dropped subplot. There is way too much emphasis on the simple house with the red door, open fields she ran barefoot in, lemon trees, the multitude of statements about where lemons grow in multiple POVs, and the many statements about no trees being in Bravos (albeit except the palace, but that isnt what martin is drawing attention to when he wastes page space repeatedly saying how barren bravos is)

[@orphanedhanyou]

Besides memories, especially of children, being malleable and not necessarily reliable one explaination I've seen is that if you are rich you probably can get anything to grow anywhere.

[@sydnitheromantictaylor112]

I hope Daenerys does find the home she's longing for, a place where she feels safe and has a family. I thought in season 7 they were hunting that Daenerys would get pregnant and end up choosing to have a family rather than the throne once they got finished defeating the dead.

[@stevenL4U]

Please please pleaseeeeee do a Jaime video about his story in TWOW. ✌🏻

[@JsHolgersson]

Thank you for all the videos & live streams ! =) We love You! Keep up the good work Robert!

[@moiraferreira]

Always speculate in my own mind when reading about Dany. Thanks for coverage.

[@leesalee423]

Bay of Dragons, not Slavers Bay.

[@Iggystarkk]

I can see House Daynes words being something as simple as “We bring the light”.

[@susangruhlke8782]

The third mount is probably the boat that takes her to Westeros.

[@210SAi]

Susan Gruhlke Hot Pie

[@anbuookami13]

Thank you for acknowledging she's got this fire and blood side.

[@TGJoeyT]

Who would thumbs-down an IDG video? They must work for HBO

[@iulpo]

Tyrion is not so stupid in the show. He acts according to his interest. “Tyrion, my sweet brother,” (...), “there are times when you give me cause to wonder whose side you are on.” “Why, Jaime, my sweet brother,” he said, “you wound me. You know how much I love my family.” So Tyrion's conflict is loving his family vs. loyalty to Daenerys. And Dany knows that. She tested Tyrion's loyalty when she kept (for the first time - the kid in Meereen was not kept) someone in chains - Jaime. Following Tyrions advice from S07E05. And Tyrion failed.

[@fail4lot]

Tyrion left Kings Landing pretty angry on Jaime, because Jaime lied about Tysha. He had to watch her getting raped by Lanister soldiers, while thinking she is a prostitute. Book Tyrion is angry, very angry.

[@brandonlambert9768]

Dany's dying in the North, it seems obvious. Does she do some questionable things before then? I'm sure she will, especially with how dark book Tyrion is.

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

Quaithe saying, "Remember who you are" reminds me of Jaime's dream when his Mother ask him essentially the same question, "Who are you?"

[@OneOnOne1162]

Looking forward to the reveal in "A Dream of Spring" that House Dayne's words are: "Bran becomes king and Dany burns down King's Landing."

[@210SAi]

In reference to who would serve Queen Daenerys on her high council; wouldn’t the more pressing question be who will be her King? I don’t see Westeros getting behind just giving a single women the Iron Throne no matter what she brings with to Westeros including her Dragons.

[@fuzzydunlop7928]

I beg to differ. I think all of the great houses will see an opportunity when they see a single High Queen.

[@OneOnOne1162]

1:33:42 - Alright, here's my argument: For Jon Connington the bells represent failure. They're a symbol of his failure to capture Robert. His failure of his Prince. A failure of his king. A failure that drove him across the Narrow Sea as an exile for years. During the first chapter he has in Dance where he remembers those bells his idea is basically "Never again." He's determined to not fail and put Aegon on the throne this time, successfully. So what role do I think the bells will play? The bells will be part of Jon Connington's final POV chapter where his entire Aegon plan falls apart, probably at the hands of Daenerys. I think as part of throwing Aegon out of the city, Dany will burn it down and we will see most of this unfold from Jon Con's POV as the bells toll in the background to signal he has failed again. Dark, but fitting, imo.

[@joshuaadams6565]

The betrayal for gold could be referring to Viserion being claimed by Young Griff?

[@lastpenny849]

Wasn't the ship on which Tyrion travelled to Slavers Bay on called the Perfumed Senchal translated or the Stinky Merchant depending on who he asked. I thought of Varis when I read it recently, but then came across the passage on the ship and started doubting which one is true. Mocarro was on that ship too.

[@chippersonsencyclopediaemp1318]

The lemon tree could be a place described to a young dany! Maybe someone told her something important about it and she made a false memory of seeing it

[@MCR-M8]

Nah it will just have been in a courtyard protected from the elements. Even got Lemons at Winterfell.

[@elisebrodeur-jacobs5215]

Love you, Robert!

[@SophiaR-xp4rk]

2:02:53 Did Lyanna even know that Elia, Aegon and Rhaenys were killed? I always thought thoses events happened roughly at the same time.

[@davidjones272]

No, after elia and her children died ned had time to travel to storm's end with an army, lift a siege, and then get to the dornish marches to find the tower of joy. That would have taken multiple weeks at least, probably a couple of months. Plenty of time for the biggest news in the kingdom to reach lyanna.

[@OneOnOne1162]

1:45:00 - I've thought for a long time now that someone is doing something that's equivalent to "skinchanging" into the dragons and I could see that being Quaithe. What I see is a strong parallel between the function of Drogon in Dany's story and the function of Ghost in Jon's story. Both seem to be animals that act in rather intelligent ways, that seem to understand things they shouldn't and guide our characters towards certain decisions and insights. There is a lot of speculation that Bloodraven (or maybe future Bran) has been warging into Ghost in order to guide Jon. Things like making sure he doesn't accept Stannis' offer and Ghost is the one who finds the wights that attack Mormont in AGoT. It all seems to be part of Bloodraven's plan. So considering what I think is a strong parallel between Jon-Ghost and Dany-Drogon that raises the question of whether someone is skinchanging into Drogon for their own ends as well. And I do think that's quite likely.

[@leoferwer1813]

Is there any chance Dany will never go to Meereen again? It seems kind of awkawrd for George to reintroduce the dothraki army out of nowhere just to solve the meereenese knot. It will be a deus ex machina of sorts. And just to tell them to go west and then return to Meereen alone would be as awkawrd, if not more. Nobody seems to think about the possibility of yet another divergence between books and tv show: Dany not returning to Meereen.

[@210SAi]

Highly doubtful for her to abandon Meereen not only the citizens but all her personal connections she has there. She can’t just take Westeros with just her and the Dothraki

[@carlrood4457]

So, was marriage of Daenerys to Khal Drogo done with Varys and Ilyrio figuring Viscerys would piss them off and get himself killed or was he supposed to stage an invasion that would soften up Westeros and possibly temporarily install himself as a "bad king" that Faegon would then save the nation from?

[@210SAi]

I used to think Viscerys was a complete loose cannon but the more I read and learned about the Targaryen line the more I see he’s just like many of the other mad kings in the line. I doubt Varys and Illyrio could have predicted what Drogo would do to Viscerys

[@carlrood4457]

@@210SAi I don't mean specifically the way he died, but sending this entitled prat amongst the fiercest warriors around with no real protection, it can't be a stretch to figure he'd piss someone off, eventually, and it wouldn't end well for him. Think about it. They were marrying off Daeny to a potential army that doesn't like getting on boats to fight for a guy with nothing but is name and no actual leadership skills. Meanwhile, they've been training what they see as their "perfect king" in secret.

[@210SAi]

Carl Rood obviously I can only speak on what information we have after DoD. Again Viscerys was typical of Targaryen Kong’s before him but I think Aegon was definitely their plan B all along.

[@davidjones272]

I always assumed that Viserys was always a foil to create chaos in westeros. The original intention was for him to be given an army by khal drogo and invade at a time when the big houses were already divided. It wasn't supposed to succeed, rather weaken the great houses and allow young griff to come in as a saviour, rescuing the realm from the savage invaders.

[@justincurll1110]

Dark flame isn't Blackfyre?

[@Antisocialpessimist]

Dark flame refers to the red priest moqorro on his way to meet Daenerys.

[@anthonyufert8477]

I can see Olenna joining (f)Aegon’s side when she turns on the Lannisters. However, I think Olenna will see something is not right about (f)Aegon. When Dany arrives w/ the dragons some people will see she is the true Targaryen heir. This along w/ some small victories by Dany’s forces & some questionable decisions made by (f)Aegon could lead 2 some of his allies abandoning him 4 Daenerys.

[@210SAi]

Why would Olenna support a female Queen? The Tyrell’s don’t have a male suitor to pair her with.

[@anthonyufert8477]

O G The Tyrells do not need a male suitor to support Dany. Houses have aligned against common enemies 4 other reasons than just intermarriage. Revenge, hatred & money all come 2 mind

[@210SAi]

Anthony Ufert Currently the Tyrells have a Queen (jailed) but still the Queen and members of the high council. Why would they give any of that up to support a foreigner invading Westeros? They have too much to lose even with th assurances by Dany.

[@anthonyufert8477]

O G I do not expect Margery 2 be alive when Olenna declares 4 Dany. I’m not saying this is happening immediately. Expect Winds of Winter 2 be a LONG book.

[@210SAi]

Anthony Ufert ah if Margery is taken out of the picture it’s more probable of a theory.

[@thorstonmanderlay5010]

I have to disagree with your assessment of Doran Martell. All his plans were really good and solid. That they so far all failed was never his fault, or a fault of the plan. He couldn't possibly foresee Robert's rebellion ending ion his sister's & her children's deaths. Neither could he know what would happen to Viserys. That Quentin's quest was a bit of a long shot seems to have been clear to him. Why else the alternative plan involving Arianne who he knows is far more competent than her brother. Oberyn was playing his own game. Sure, Doran gave him his blessing, but he he probably knew well enough that he had no power over his brother once Oberyn was outside Dorne.

[@210SAi]

In the end Doran’s plans (good or bad) have all failed. He wants to be a player but he isn’t even in the game. The only thing he’s got at this point is a damaged Myrcella

[@jamiemckenna2254]

Another excellent video, Robert. Question: What if Blood Raven & Quaithe (Shiera Seastar) weren’t backing different horses so much as they intended Jon & Dany to join together to defeat the others? Thanks @in deep geek for all the fantastic content.

[@210SAi]

Quaithe is by far the oddest character to me. If I didn’t know any better I’d assume she has superpowers the way she can pop in and out of Daenerys physical locations.

[@reneebarger5194]

A WoW scenario has been brewing in my brain for a while, I had been waiting for you to address the importance of Barristan to Daerys. Does Barristan know who she really is? Why was he driven to serve her after the deaths of her husband & brother? Her name says it all: Dayne Aerys Storm born. Why does he tell Danny that she reminds him of Ashara Dayne? Because she is the daughter of Ashara & Aerys. He knew that Ashara had been “violated” but she “turned” to the Starks to protect her instead of him. He was a Kings Guard, he even rescued Aerys. The Kings Guard had done nothing to protect her to this point. Barristan knew that the Baratheon’s wanted her dead. He let her mother down but would not let her daughter down. Will he tell her in a deathbed confession in WoW? It would be a great reveal.

[@MayumiSaegusaShiba]

This is going to have to be addressed: "No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words. “Fire and Blood,” Daenerys told the swaying grass." -Dany X This part felt like a turning point for me-like she was rethinking her whole worldview. I personally think Dany's quite over all of her plans failing-or at the very least fed up that they don't meet her expectations. She's tried her very best in a lot of hard decisions, but even when she tries to do what she thinks is the "right thing", they always seem to bite her in the back. A lot of radical people, both in fiction and reality, have abandoned their own morals in lieu of an effective path to reach their goals. After all, plans are much easier to accomplish if you remove any kind of morality in it (a Machiavellian reasoning, as he argued that leaders need to have a separate view of 'morals' while they lead). It's certainly a decision a smart character would make, or at least a character that is fixated and cannot be swayed away from her goals. I think she's going that way too. There wouldn't be any point to her dragons and how GRRM described them in such destructive detail if there wouldn't be a scene where they actually wreck irreversible havoc. The tricky part is how GRRM chooses to approach it. I honestly think she's going to choose to do something bad (highly likely that it would be burning KL, as Tyrion seems quite keen on sending her there and at the same time, torture and maybe kill Cersei himself), but will end up regretting it in the end-unlike what the show gave us. But as I said before, the damage will be irreversible and unforgivable. People tend to forget the existence of Quaithe who, I think, has always been an eerie reminder of what Dany's really capable of. GRRM himself compared her dragons to nukes. She is someone who could bring the world to heel, and there's this mysterious figure seemingly urging her to do so. I think we're going to see Quaithe's words have a physical manifestation in Dany-she's finally going to be a dragon. But what does "being a dragon" really mean? Dragons represent power, destruction, magic, majesty, mystery, and in a more awe-striking way, beauty. Sound familiar? Though I concur that it might not be as simple as this, such similarities cannot exist for no reason-at least not for an author like GRRM. Ultimately it's a problem of determinism. Is dany's destiny pre-determined? She's obviously shown traits that stray from the tyrannic destiny she seems to fit so much. How much of her life is determined by the things that she's born with, and how much can she control? She's always felt like a person that's eventually going to be trapped by "destiny", but I don't think it's going to end that clear-cut. Certainly an interesting thought.

[@jayceepooze]

If I may be so bold as to offer up an audio-related suggestion: You may want to consider the use of a de-esser on your microphone track. I'm finding the sibilances in your speech a little on the piercing side if I'm being honest. A de-esser will tame those piercing frequencies and make for a much more pleasant listening experience.

[@brandonlambert9768]

Dany turning evil is too predictable, and I saw it coming a mile away, and I hoped they wouldn't take her there.

[@idontuploadanym0re]

Dany=Ash Drogon=Charizard i’ll see myself out.

[@benjaminnorris3746]

Hey Robert, I am unfamiliar with how Facebook ads generate revenue for content creators. Is it more beneficial to you if I endure the whole ad without skipping?

[@JoniukasVader]

In Deep!

[@christophertracy383]

I doubt very much that Queen Daenerys will burn King's Landing and there's no breaking the wheel talk in the books. I'm rereading them up 2 Feast of Crows.

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

Who is Faegon's Mother and Father if he IS INDEED a Blackfyre? How will Feagon die--obviously in order for the "weir wood net" computer named Bran to be King, Feagon must die though everyone says he will be a good ruler?

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

Except for the dragons - which we know will be killed because magic is big bad and scary (yes GRRM IS a typical fantasy writer though everyone thinks he is special), I really think Dany is superfluous. She IS an outsider as is her army and really Dany is conflicted about wanting to be in Westeros--that was all Viserys. I think GRRM got himself involved in writing about a character that really belongs in Essos and because he tangled Dany up in the "War of the Roses" he is committed to doing SOMETHING with her. Typically Dany becomes an "important" characters (Jon Snow) "wife" and then somehow goes INSANE so she must be killed. Poor Dany and oh so sad Jon who seems to have bad luck in his love life...as does Dany. Yeah that GRRM has a perfectly yawning fantasy approach.

[@ningenJMK]

Robert could sell gold and I'd buy all of it.

[@jackiec9139]

i doubt Dany will be captured by the Dothraki in the Winds of winter seeming she is with Drogon when she sees them, but still a good chance she might burn them. Or they bow and accept her as queen simply at the sight of Drogon, no fire needed.

[@chippersonsencyclopediaemp1318]

Or he will fly away and they will take her as in the show

[@abhiramk7623]

@@TGJoeyT yes she is with drogon when the Dothraki see her

[@TGJoeyT]

@@abhiramk7623 just re-read that part of the chapter, you're right. I can't believe I forgot about that.

[@WW-br9tp]

I feel as though the prophesied kneeling crones must be the dosh khaleen though? Which would imply that she’s been taken to Vas Dothrak

[@jackiec9139]

Idk if she would need to be "taken" to them for them to kneel

[@lastpenny849]

I like the idea of John taking his baby that he had with Dany at the end, when she dies, and he makes a similar promise to Dany, as Ned did with Lyanna.. George did say bittersweet ending...

[@harryfrejens618]

bittersweet? dany has been raped lost an unborn baby sold into slavery lost dragons all her baby relatives tossed at walls due to 2nd name alone soooooo much more, only main that suffered a ton, not bittersweet at all, just bitter for her man. most iconic character as well, like wtf

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

Thus that sappy ending at the dock where Sansa, Bran and Arya watch Jon leave off to the Elysian Fields with Gandalf. Oops...Tormund.

[@soupforthefamily8378]

What if bran wargs drogon and makes him burn king’s landing

[@harryfrejens618]

that's what happened

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

Poor Dany she needs "fighting" men and "leaders" of men cause she is this helpless little girl. Yep Jon will be the one thought there little romance will be destined to end with Jon killing the woman he loves ONCE AGAIN in order to save his little world. Alas GRRM DOES do fantasy tropes.

[@TheMarlinlask]

Can someone help me understand this.? Jon snow was still born a bastard maybe highborn but still a bastard. Dany would have a better claim against a bastard even though Dany is a year younger. The whole book talked Robert obsession with with Dany why not Viserys he was 8 years older than Dany older, older than even Joffrey it makes no sense mot trying to eliminate him.

[@LSK1]

Hey

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

You know what? If what you describe about Bloodraven/Bran manipulating Jon to kill Dany (fire) and then I assume getting Jon to feel so horrible and to find him a MURDERER so that Bran becomes King is pretty damn sad. Everyone then is just a pawn and ultimately Bran is just a pawn to some insane sorcerer. GRRM the "special" writer with a long convoluted story really about nothing--a chessboard filled with pawns including Kings and Queens and Knights.

[@karenthomas1456]

Robert would you ever consider (or be allowed to, legally) narrating the books themselves? I find the official audiobooks lacking and the mis-pronunciation of names and places really irritates me. xxx

[@orphanedhanyou]

Who has the correct pronunciations? Martin himself says some in interviews and they should so wrong and not how id think to say them or have heard anyone else use. I thought he even spoke on this topic and said whatever voice you are reading with is yours and you should read how you naturally would.

[@210SAi]

They are GRRMs books. I’m fairly certain he would have had to green light the final pronunciations in the audiobooks.

[@SHARKVADERS]

IDG!!!

[@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast]

Does anyone think there's a possibility that Daenerys is not the daughter of the Mad King, but instead the illegitimate child of Tywin Lannister? I think that would be an amazing twist and if done right, could make her descent into madness even more significant, realizing she's not the legitimate heir to the iron throne, but sadly, very far from having any claim on what she believed to be her birthright. I don't think it will happen but I just wanted to here your thoughts. I thought I read somewhere that Tywin may have had an had an affair with Danys mother but prove me wrong.

[@Story2ScreenMovieReviewPodcast]

@John Trevolter I meant the Mad King, her father, not the Mad Queen.

[@210SAi]

Enough with the tinfoil hat theories

[@harryfrejens618]

dany g o a t fictional character

[@mattheusgreen8663]

his language choice for dany, he hates how she is best shades of grey character, a dominant woman more revered than his favourite men. put some respect on this iconic fictional entity!

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

It seems AGAIN pretty trite to have primary characters manipulated - Bran by Bloodraven and Dany by Quaithe and Sansa by Littlefinger. Bran, Dany and Sansa are definitely young and manipulated by those much older but AFTER A WHILE the manipulation just gets BORING. I'm bored with the Bran struggle to get North and the on-and-on with Bloodraven. I'm BORED with Dany traveling all over Essos and getting NO WHERE only confused and learning NO THING. I'm BORED with Sansa being used over-and-over by not just Littlefinger but all those others - Sandor and Joffrey and Cersei. I just want GRRM to give it all a break. Much of this trivia just does not move the story any direction and provider ZERO insight into the characters--they are flat little empty vessels filled by THE OTHERS - that's a joke BTW. YAWN. Same with Theon. After a while cutting off his testicles, fingers, toes and making him a dawg just is BORING. Often I found myself rooting for Theon to DIE so we could get on with it.

[@tscchope]

You really are fixated on Daenerys invading Westeros, aren't you? Why would she do that? What's in Westeros for her? Returning was Viserys' dream, not hers. As you point out, she's no support in Westeros. She'd be acutely aware that no women had ever held the Iron Throne in her own right. She'd also be aware that without a Targaryen on the throne, Westeros is reverting to the seven warring kingdoms it was before Aegon conquered it. Ruling in Mereen and Dothraki is also a male preserve. There's no reason for Daenerys to solve the situation she finds herself in in Vraes Dothrak quickly. her dragons are not old enough to incinerate someone. Quentyn got burnt by two dragons and took days to die in agony. Other than Vraes Dothrak, the Dothraki don't have fixed settlements her dragons could burn. Daenerys wants to free all slaves. The Dothraki have lots of slaves. There are a couple of cities the Dothraki would like to raze and enslave their population. One on the northern coast and the other Ebb, sorry Ib, on an island off shore. She had begun to forge a path of her own in the Dothraki Sea before her Mereen intermission. The people she met and worked with there forced her into compromise after compromise. She's no reason to want to return there, either. She's not herself there, whoever 'herself' truly is.

[@210SAi]

tscchope so based on your observations what’s the point of her arc? Seems liked she’s screwed any way she chooses to go. Why would GRRM even include her in the story if she’s destined to do nothing at all?

[@tscchope]

@@210SAi That's a very good question. At the end of book 5 part 2 there are quite a few characters whose futures are murky and not particularly bright. Daenerys' already survived the death of her Khal and still has bloodriders dedicated to serving her, who didn't deliver her to the Dosh Khaleen like they were supposed to.There are successors to Khal Drogo to whom she's an obstacle. She's conquered Meereen, Yunkai and Astapor. She's made another political marriage to secure her conquests, which is certainly not working. Had Drogon not dragged her out, the Sons of the Harpy probably would have killed her. Daenerys has got people who are devoted to her, working for her in Mereen. The dream Viserys castigates her for turning her back on the Iron Throne. But she know she has no support there, no intelligence, is seen as a foreigner and no army. The Dothraki have destroyed civilisation in the Dothraki Sea, except in Vraes Dothrak. Introduce them into Westeros and they'd do the same there. Martin has said his characters will face challenges and he's going to cull their numbers. Winter is coming, so there's not much mirth coming his characters' way. Like others, Daenerys will face adversity. We know what Varys has planned for her once Young Griff is crowned. He plans for Young Griff to marry Daenerys. Euron plans to marry Daenerys. Marwyn is hot footing it to tell her something important. The point of Daenerys' future story is the fashioning of her own destiny and choices she makes to get there. A wrong move and she won't make it.

[@210SAi]

tscchope I get what you are saying but it would not make sense for a primary character like her to never even get to Westeros. I can’t think of any decent book where you have a primary character who remains completed detached from the main plot line. If she doesn’t at least get to Westeros there was really no point including her in the books. The main story would not be effected if your premise holds and she was never included in the books.

[@tscchope]

@@210SAi I don't see Daenerys as a primary character. There are several factions in Westeros that want to involve her . Her marriage to Drogo was to secure a Dothraki invasion of Westeros. She's a plot device, a prize, not a primary character. The main plot is Varys' design to marry Young Griff off to Daenerys. Everything Varys has done has been to bring that event about. The question is will Daenerys go to Westeros in The Winds of Winter? I think not. Martin may set it up so she doesn't go there in a Dream of Spring.

[@210SAi]

tscchope Young griff wasn’t even present in the first 3 books so you can’t say he’s more significant than Daenerys.

[@annawisdomsdottir4947]

"Rushed a not natural" really? How about that schmaltzy flying the two dragons Disney-like scene to the icefall? OMG what utter trash. And speaking of the OMG I can't sleep with my Aunt!!!! And the OMG tears and begging by Dany that Jon keep who he is quiet. Nonsense total and utter crap.

[@myheartleila9058]

I get so irritated at people that say, Dany went "MAD". Honestly, I don't buy into that about most of the Targaryens. The "mad king" was rightfully paranoid. Rhanyrah, was rightfully enraged over her crown being stolen by her Daddy's glorified girlfriend. Visary's was rightfully resentful, frustrated and angry. And, Dany was pure ambition. She killed her brother and took his crown. She is a narcissist, that has psychotic tendencies. Her desire for safety, is no different than any other rulers hopes and dreams. But for her, home is the entire world. I do think she freed the slaves, out of pure compassion. But, its also another reflection of how self absorbed she is. In her mind, she says "I didn't grow up with slaves. Why should you?". And, this is a LIE that she has been telling herself. Then she takes action, that announces to all her new subjects, "IM YOUR NEW RULER. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT, I WILL KILL YOU." Plus, Visarys was her slave. He literally, lived to save and serve her. That's why he resented her and rightfully expected her to return the favor. She betrayed him. She has been waited on by servants for her entire life. So, Dany doesn't "GO MAD". She was always psycho. I can see Dany and Sansa eventually going head to head. She will see Sansa as a better version of herself. A beloved Natural Born Queen with the ability to create an army large enough to kill her Dragons. Sansa, is more of a threat than Cersei. And, I hope that Sansa and Jamie GET MARRIED. Restoring Roberts dream of making and Northern, Southern, Wetlands, Vale alliance. Once Jamie sees that he can't keep Cersei safe from afar. He will go back to her. Find out that she is pregnant. Then he will kill her and the baby. That baby will bring nothing but war in the future. He will truly see this as a Knight. The Man without Honor... Knights, at times, have no honor. And must Kill when necessary. It will all come back to the conversation Jon and Jamie had in the first book. And in the end Jon and Jamie both will go down in history, As Men Without Honor. The Queen is dead. Long Live Queen Sansa.

[@myheartleila9058]

Jon has betrayed the Nights Watch and therefore, he betrayed The Starks. He and Dany will have a short affair. But, the nature of their relationship will change once he is accepted by the Dragons. Dany will start to fear him. And Dany always kills what she fears. They will battle on Dragon Back. Jon will win. Tearfully, he will give her one final stab. Leaving The Starks as the Ruling Family. Bran, still becomes King. Mostly because, he cant have children. Forcing everyone to embrace the same election process they use on the Wall.

[@myheartleila9058]

??? Why do people think Tyrion is such a genius??? Sure he reads alot and has a sharp tongue. But how does any of that make him this SUPER SMART character that should know precisely how to guide a queen??? He had a grip on Kings Landing. because he was TYWINS son and the brother of the Queen and the baddest knight alive. Every decision he made outside of his families influence, was a BAD CHOICE. It was not rushed... people just glorified certain characters and created the Cancel Culture, manding GRRM rewrite the show. Tyrion was always STUPID. He really thought a girl that had just been raped, wanted to have sex with me. He Too is a NARSISSICT. Shay saw through him... thats why he loved her. ANOTHER STUPID CHOICE.

[@chrisonderon1124]

I am sick and tired of all the mad-queen bullshit arguments.If Tywin had dragons, he would have done the same, being known what he declared at the end of season 3:``There is no difference between killing someone in battle and killing someone at a wedding``.So, I am asking you,using the same standards of warfare and scortched earth policy:Is Tywin mad?``The answer is no.Ruthless,definetly!Preston Jacobs emphasized in one of his Season 8 videos that Daenerys has always been a character treated with double standards by the viewers. Therefore, when other characters from the show commit acts of violence against people outside the battlefield, everybody shrugs and conclude:It`s in their nature! but when Daenerys commits acts of violence against people outside the battlefield, everybody loses their freakin` minds!I am not denying:the writting was atrocious during the last 2 seasons, but EVEN BAD WRITTING DESERVES AN INTERPRETATION!Thank you Robert for your providing us an objective analysis of Daenerys`s actions and decisions!

[@dustin628]

So you think everything will be the exact same from show to books. Great.

[@fritzvoncranach6268]

How much of the video did you watch? That‘s not at all what he said.