Daggerfall to Skyrim - Limitations on the Creative Process: Graphical Fidelity, Demographics, & VO

This is a cumulation of things I've gone over with Live-Stream viewers a few times, and I figured I'd codify them in the form of a KZbin video I could point to. I'm going to ramble about 20 mins on my preferences regarding the Elder Scrolls then spend about 10 mins explaining what is limiting the creative process and why we are suffering the 2 steps forward 1 step back syndrome with each successive game. From Daggerfall to Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim each time a new game is created, for the most part everything gets thrown out and restarted, not a progression of features. The main culprits are Demographics, Graphical Fidelity, and Voice Acting and I'll get into discussing those as well. A lot of people are going to jump to conclusions based on my comparisons to the Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim's cinematic experiences, but as per usual, anything gleamed at the beginning of the video is likely going to be wrong.

[@williamarthurfenton1496]

One of the worst things about voiced characters is they inevitably have to use the same actors over and over, due to budget constraints. It completely takes you out of the experience when Lord Brakkken has the same voice as Jolad the Pheasant Plucker.

[@MrKamillordo]

@TheVoiceOfTruth "Thank you kind sir!"

[@Zyrdalf]

Unless you are someone with no memory of voices and tone deaf. Then all the voices sound the same anyways. 👍

[@nachfullbarertrank5230]

No more! I yield! I yield!

[@shekelboob]

@@Zyrdalf that would be me, the only reason i realised that voices were reused was bc some of them have unique accents, making them memorable

[@colonian83]

@@abc-ug5ym lol the blame doesn't lie solely on the VAs, it also lies on the voice director. text based is definitely a breath of fresh air though

[@kevinjensen9674]

Vampire just died. Vampire just died. It just, died man.

[@criosray]

How can someone already dead die, I wonder? Sounds like an oxymoron...

[@samjupp8127]

DDDDDDIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@RAM3NOV3RLORD]

kono dio da

[@moesirwan4307]

hinjaku, hinjaku! the vampire died! DO YOU UNDERSTANDU!

[@luisortega8085]

In skyrim some ghosts taunt "Only a fool tries to kill the dead!"

[@DarkGrif]

"You can Roleplay in the bedroom." I literally lost it there. Thank you Zaric for the smile. Been a rough day and I needed it.

[@Firstlast-ue3wp]

lol

[@sennahoj777]

That was the last time I roleplayed ;) ;) ;)

[@RAM3NOV3RLORD]

Johannes Birkenfjäll What as?

[@sennahoj777]

A sexy lord

[@MrBrbowles]

Virgin confirmed

[@79acastaneda]

If the Todd scrolls/FO4 have taught me anything it's that Bethesda is far less interested in keeping fans as they are in getting new ones.

[@travus111]

why should they? they are a company which goal is to make money though making games I think everyone should stop treating Bethesda like a fan based company that's for the fans, no it's for the money just get over it

[@79acastaneda]

Change the word fan with customer and if you think that's a good business model in the long run, don't ever own a business. Bethesda is relying more and more on hype for their games along w/doing things like only giving pre-release copies to people who will help push that hype, why, b/c when they start alienating a large chunk of the existing customer base sooner or later they will lose all word of mouth goodwill and have to rely solely on hype in advertising. The season pass being sold on wishes and promises for FO4 is another example of them trying to milk as much as they can on previous goodwill, which by the way with the people I know has had the opposite effect. If you want to buy what ever turd they shit out simply b/c you would buy anything w/ the BGS logo on it is your business, I'm a customer, not a loyalist, and if the product isn't good I'll move on.

[@justiciar1964]

"I don't like how Oblivion pretty much forces fast travel." Wat? As shitty as Oblivion was, it didn't force fast travel. Its map was tiny! The problem was its compass immediately told us everything without having to find it out first, like locations of hidden shit. Have you ever played Arena and Daggerfall? You're constantly zipping between dungeon and city! Ya I know this post is months old. Interstellar lag n shit.

[@resdyne9590]

Exactly

[@MrPizzaslice]

"Todd scrolls" You do realize the guy directed Morrowind right?

[@TheLogicalChoice]

I hope TES and Fallout doesnt continue down the path of being less and less like an RPG

[@roach9397]

How much further can Fallout go? I don't even consider Fallout 4 an RPG.

[@samuelgrant1549]

I don't mind the direction TES is going but I would prefer the old rpg mechanics. However I despise fallout 4. The way to do a modern fallout is definitely new Vegas

[@Harry_S._Plinkett]

The Logical Choice I don't know about TES, but so long as Obsidian gets to make Fallout games in between the "main titled" games, Fallout will be fine.

[@roach9397]

Harry S. Plinkett TES has become more streamlined, not to the same degree as Fallout but it's happening. I enjoy the new Elder Scrolls games, but I hope they don't become any more streamlined than they already are. Also I'm glad to see my favorite sniveling armchair critic here.

[@Harry_S._Plinkett]

Rick Berman McCallum I think Oblivion is perfectly streamlined. Not as complex as Morrowind as to not scare off newcomers, but still complex enough to be appreciated by series veterans. I think Skyrim went way too far. It's not dumbed down like Fallout 4 is (at least there are still skills), but it's way too oversimplified.

[@STUV101]

Indie developers aren't just creative because they aren't tied down by a publisher, their creative due to their own limitations.

[@bingobongo1615]

STUV101 And because they have to. If you own the Star Wars License and have a well working engine, you dont need a lot of creativity. If you dont have a good license and will not be able to play in the top league of graphic fidelity you will need creativity to sell any copies

[@localvoidlander8093]

As a growing indie developer, I find much of my creativity stems from limitations that force ingenuity!

[@CrissCHG]

@@bingobongo1615 that iswhere we are

[@origintrackz5235]

Exactly! i made a similar argument when talking about older games. the limitations of the hardware they were working with pushed them to be more creative! now a days i would say that's lost a bit.

[@adamaccountname]

Morrowind is the perfect mix, characters have greetings, but the dialogue can be highly detailed.

[@themk4982]

If I were Bethesda I'd invest in text-to-speech and things like that, they're getting really good now.

[@Nethan2000]

I had the exact same thoughts. Instead of having the voice actors record all the minor conversations and directions for the player, just let them teach the TTS engine. Most of the game doesn't even need good voice acting; just someone to read the script out loud. And for important, emotional moments that could really use an invested performance, just record them separately. I don't know how feasible it is right now, but really feel it's the future of RPGs.

[@criosray]

There are mods for Skyrim that do that already. They use TTS to read the books aloud for you for example.

[@definitelyadarkangel9225]

I dunno I sort of miss the Oblivion voice acting lol. That being said Terrence stamp, sir Patrick stewart, and Sean bean are awesome.

[@lazzledazzle7827]

Yeah and in 2040 when es6 comes out it will sound human

[@armoredmilkman3288]

SOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOISOI

[@masternest]

Especially true with the first meeting Serana part. You can't kill her even though you are part of the freaking Dawnguard. I found it so weird and laughable first time I came to that.

[@jesuspinto9805]

Nobody is waiting for a sequel of Fallout 3. Everybody wants is a Fallout: New Vegas 2.

[@kazumablackwing4270]

Jesus Pinto idk..i kinda wanna see a fallout midwest game, and maybe bring in what's left of the enclave..since it was alluded to that enclave chapters existed in the midwest

[@Kaucukovnik666]

A friend of mine was unimpressed by FO:NV, because "he already played Fallout 3". New dialogue to click through was of no interest to him. He found the power armor opening/closing animation in FO4 rather impressive though. Guess who is Bethesda's target audience? Me or him?

[@titangaming8627]

Kaucukovnik666 you have a point but a good game (particularly RPG’s) isn’t just about animations. You could work on the game’s system, economy, mechanics etc.. before start to work on animations. Edit: improving the mechanics and overall gameplay

[@redseagaming7832]

Not me I would not mind sequel to Fallout 3 cuz that's my first Fallout game I ever played from beginning to end thousands of hours into it wow Fallout New Vegas I only put like a hundred hours into it and went back to Fallout 3

[@janisir4529]

20:40 That's the most pixelated nipslip ever.

[@hmmmooops]

I'm always dissapointed by the "cities" in video games. In World of Warcraft there are almost no civilian buildings. Orgrimar looks like 100 people max live there. Darnassus is a square. Razor Hill and Goldshire are stops on the road. I immidiately loved Suramar because it was the first city of convincing size and buildings.

[@conradkellog926]

Alex Dagos I though morrowind had good cities

[@Nerobyrne]

Blizzard: "This is the capital of all of humanity!" Me: "There are like 200 people living here wtf?! Germany has bigger hamlets! In fact, Germany had bigger hamlets during the middle ages!"

[@holysparkbatman]

Play asherons call then

[@AragornGhost15]

The Witcher 3 :)

[@origintrackz5235]

@@AragornGhost15 Definitely! you can get lost in Novigrad!

[@voxlknight2155]

"Daggerfall is a glorious, broken mess" Just like any good Bethesda game is required to be!

[@Mary42877]

man, would i like some politics in an elder scrolls game...

[@PinInCruiZ]

Yeah, all we get instead is "Thalmor are literally Hitler"

[@sirellyn4391]

Normally I'd agree about more politics, but these days, all I want is less politics. Everywhere.

[@NaZtRdAmUs]

Give me Morrowind graphics and i'd be happy with the any game they make.

[@peterma3560]

Morrowind actually looks amazing when you bump up the render distance with MGE XE

[@kiefscooper7]

I'm lucky you archive the streams I keep missing them cuz we are in different time zones so it's always really late to watch for me

[@gregramos2292]

Cynical mug I watch is streams at 4 o clock in the morning 😂

[@sunder9363]

Cynical mug He archives the streams? I haven't been able to find them...

[@connorforce01]

Fallout was an RPG where you had choices and differing results, until Bethesda bought it.

[@Psyfonify]

daggerfall has such a special charm.

[@TheLogicalChoice]

Didn't Todd Howard work on Morrowind as well/

[@Vic-jf9ls]

And the Project Leader of Morrowind.

[@beckbeckons7150]

Morrowind was Todd Howard's first main ES title as game director, I think.

[@letsplayFan666]

HardWarUK but Mass effect is an rpg, isn't it?

[@frignes3323]

HardWarUK Oblivion wasn't "100%" Todd Howard. Oblivion didn't actually have a credited director position like every Bethesda game since Morrowind. Ken Rolston, Gavin Carter and Craig Lafferty were actually big influences on that game. Also if you read a lot of the early Morrowind interviews a lot of the features Morrowhiners constantly bang on about we're Todd's ideas: Specifically the lack of fast travel in favour of the transportation system, favouring the "adventure" aspect of the game, the focus on the faction system in relation to the disposition and how they went about redesigning the skills to make them as "macro" as possible (which is something he continues with to this day): www.imperial-library.info/content/interviews-MW-team

[@valdimardotof930]

Frignes Haha, your comment really ended this thread.

[@OttoVonGarfield]

Speaking of Daggerfall Unity, I wonder what would make the perfect daggerfall game, and really enhance and fortify the game in terms of its strengths. If only there was a video that I could use for my opinions instead of actually having to work to form my own opinion, but what hero could produce such a video? What madman would make such subjective fanfiction unlikely to ever happen, but significantly more likely thanks to the Daggerfall Unity? Who, I ask, who?!?!

[@lxjuani]

Who indeed? I had a vision of a hero in a suit, one who rejected his title as loretator

[@Winnetou17]

Spell of Unity Fortify Gameplay 100% Fortify Graphics 50% Constant Effect

[@rkcpek]

Distinct cities, rivers and roads, lakes and bridges.

[@sanguinecalamus191]

It feels to me like Minecraft and to a lesser extent Mount and Blade borrowed some of these good aspects that the later Elder Scrolls lost.

[@kingharlaus43]

Rudolph Consuegra ITS ALMOST HARVESTING SEASON

[@patchthelad]

The Elder Scrolls 11 is gonna be wild, what with its flawless text-to-speech.

[@animefuckingsucks8204]

Poland has different business types. In the case of CDPR, they're a publicly traded Company, but it works like a publicly traded LLC. I suppose it's the both of both worlds. Germany is full of GmbH (LLC) Companies and the CEO rules with an iron fist and have the option to ignore want the shareholders want so they can get more artistic integrity.

[@voldlifilm]

I really don't get why so many people making games (or films) seem to have no idea that people acclimatize. If everything is AWESOME then nothing is. If everything is going at the same pace, even if that pace is a hundred miles an hour (is that much? I'm kph man), then it isn't moving fast at all. Modulate that scale, man. Make my avatar a weak little reject at the start of the game, send me on slow walks across vast empty landscapes. Then fifty to a hundred hours later it means something when I am leaping across mountains on a cryomantic snowboard while fighting the physical manifestation of entropy to save the world. I am awesome NOW because I wasn't then. It ain't hard! or maybe it is, I don't know anymore. Seems hard enough for lots of talented people to not get it. Anyways, great vid man. Love your stuff, as always.

[@codeman7780]

Wasn't Todd Howard the project leader for Morrowind? O.o

[@ArmouredProductions]

I agree with you on Oblivion's Combat vs Skyrim. Sure skyrim is more flashy with cool fx and killmoves and "perks" but too me it's like Micheal Bay movies, lots of flash and nice looking, but no intimacy. Now Oblivion is no where near perfect, which is why there are so many big overhauls (me personally I use Francesco's + a whole bunch of other mods and some personal mods) But I felt I liked Oblivion's combat much more, it's more versatile, just with the aforementioned Spell Casting. Having spells bound to hands sucks, and I never liked it, which is why i never used much magic in Skyrim. But oblivion makes hybrid classes viable, and magic in general.

[@Aewon84]

Personally, I don't like Oblivion's combat system because it makes playing a mage/warrior hybrid, like a spellsword, far too easy. Or just a plain old warrior, for that matter. Everyone uses Restoration magic when they're hurt, even if they're playing as a pure warrior. In Skyrim you're more likely to not bother with healing spells if you're a pure warrior, using healing potions instead. Furthermore, if you're a spellsword you end up having to sacrifice armour rating for the ability to heal yourself.

[@bailaohu7819]

We have two different interpretations of the words 'flashy' and 'cool effects' if you use those terms in a non-sarcastic way when describing skyrim's combat.

[@maxwestphal]

The combat is in every bethesda game a bad mess! Why arguing whats the best?! its bad! Its shit!!! i hope, thay will change that in the next game!! maybe learn sonthing from chivalry or upcomming mordhau!

[@criosray]

There are mods For Skyrim that allow casting spells by a keypress no matter what weapon you hold right now (even 2handers even a sword and shield). There are mods that will cast spells for you automatically without any interaction (like heal when health is low, or recast buff when it's down etc). There are tons of combat mods as well for Skyrim. That's the beauty - you can make your own game with your own rules. Of course there are mods for Oblivion too, but the engine doesn't allow as much as Skyrim one does.

[@four-en-tee]

Armoured Productions Oblivion's combat in general just feels overall more fluid and pleasing to use. '_'

[@billete37]

I remember on the xbox 360 i used vivecs palace including the sewer as a museum, and the outside was covered in lanterns and candles it would glow at night, it looked so cool

[@Optimus6128]

If you think about it, when the technology wasn't enough for voiceovers, old games were closer to literature than movies. Sprawling texts of dialogues, hidden notes, big walls of text in all the oldschool RPGs, a lot of content that was taking some kilobytes, but if you were to voice over all that today, besides the extreme budget and time you need, it's gonna take too much space. People went mental when games since the PS3 era started resembling movies, but it takes away other aspects of games. Even back in the days, there was Loom the lucasarts adventure game and later there was the enhanced CD-Rom version with speech, and the creators were forced to reduce a lot of the text to fit it in one CD (also notice how the EGA 16 colored graphics are more moody and atmospheric than it's VGA remaster). I liked Daggerfall because of the feeling of vasteness, even though most of the outside are plain and bland but I just like to walk out endlessly through the fog, through the nothingness. The dungeons might look bland but were so scary and you could get lost. I am also testing the new Daggerfall Unity port with all the mods and it's brilliant at times, the landscapes have bigger elevation and far distances, beautiful skybox, yet it keeps the vasteness feeling, too long to move from one pixel on the map to the next but now you see endless beautiful far landscapes!

[@smsmsmsmsmsm]

One thing about the elder scrolls that I've noticed is: you can interact with the world but the world hardly interacts with the player.

[@TazzeOptical]

14:45 many people confuse "playing pretend in your head" with roleplaying

[@magnos_decimus]

I think Spoony said it best when he described 2nd edition DnD as a messy room but a room you wouldn't change for anything as I paraphrase. because that's how I feel about Daggerfall and all its problems

[@SpaceP1rate]

16:03 Sassy valley girl Zhakaron says: "I like the mall."

[@resdyne9590]

spacep1rate hahaha he just said it

[@TyRuS168]

I completely agree voice actors n graphics costs. Is costing the players so much content for the illusion of a bigger better upgraded game. All I see in game as far as upgrades go would be voices graphics n more fluid movements. While we lose variations of spells, towns,and dialogue. Weapons that swing differently. And so on.. but it sure takes a good screenshot. N people don't complain of voices being over used for multiple characters

[@BurgerFred1]

8:54 This may be my Diablo senses talking, but isn't it a bad idea to equip an enchanted item before identifying it?

[@ShadowAngle]

Diablo 1 didn't apply the bonuses or penalties of unidentified items. Diablo 2 didn't let you equip unidentified items altogether. Same with Diablo 3, but those items might as well have dropped identified items for how easy it was to identify them.

[@Archived0]

It really is sad that game companies are gimping their games for console sales. Especially for the Elder Scrolls series. RIP.

[@xyzzy-dv6te]

Daggerfall is proof great PC exclusives existed in the 90s

[@memegazer]

Nobody makes a brand new engine from the ground up. Red Dead Redemption 2 was built with an updated RAGE engine that still has legacy code from the Angel Game Engine, which is a decade old, in it...does that mean Rockstar has a dated engine?...does Rockstar need to start from scratch and build a new engine from the ground up?...of course not. Bethesda does not need a new engine...they need to do a better job of updating their existing engine.

[@2prize]

Why don't they try a new engine? It's not like they are trying to promote their Gamebryo.

[@dallyink7412]

Thanks for this. The streams have been difficult to keep up with for me, so it's very nice to have a concise video based on some of the interesting talk that goes on.

[@pacecory1]

I've been hearing this argument a lot lately. It is an unfortunate truth that modern gaming is becoming more challenging for player choice. but with the rise of the indie scene hope is not lost. We still get some awesome games coming out from there. XD

[@Khotgor]

You know what? I bet a game like Daggerfall/Oblivion and its many pros that both brought to the table.. could be replicated to its fullest potential with the Doom Engine. Not Doom 3, or Doom '4' Engines. Doom 2's. I tried Daggerfall, and the controls and combat was a lot more complicated than it had to be. Having a Doom 2-esque RPG with Oblivion-Based Combat with enemies having different flags of 'mana pool' to determine when they can cast spells or not, scripts that determine when enemies will block/dodge, or make fast or heavy attacks... Doesn't seem like an impossibility. Also to take the philosophy of the Radiant AI of Oblivion and Radiant Quests of Daggerfall and combine them into a massive world, a world that can readily be 'extremely large' as the Doom engine was designed to run on... anything, when it was first conceptualized, and the issue of lag with too much sprites was already solved with Daggerfall and Doom 2 had little lag to begin with... so a massive world the size of Daggerfall, give or take, and taking and combining elements of it and Oblivion seems plausible. Plus, the Doom Engine in itself still looks pretty descent when looking at it today

[@Lornext]

It is funny to listen to this and hear you mention "voice acting" as a limiter... Just a few years later now, AI voices can easily be used to completely remove this limiter.

[@Zhakaron]

VERY possible, on a technical level we are there NOW, but as usual the law is a decade behind or so. There are some things to be ironed out regarding compensation for the source voices and/or litigation regarding lack thereof after the fact. Countries may also place sanctions on its use in the future. Any of this could throw a wrench in the works for commercial use in games.

[@EKOrTT]

What is your opinion on the likelihood of speech synthesis reaching a point where it can take samples of voice actors and recreate paragraphs of dialogue? This would enable Bethesda to create the voiced dialogue for meaningful choices.

[@templarkiller2926]

MEDIAN My opinion is no voiced protagonists

[@StrifeRixa]

Oh boy chat bot NPCs please

[@imperishableneet]

My thoughts exactly. Google is working on this now, look up Wavenet.

[@PinInCruiZ]

It's some sci-fi shit and not advanced enough for present generation

[@shupasopni]

Check out the Skyrim mod "Amorous Adventures" To see how good it can get with some modder doing the work. If a modder with no money behind them can do stuff like that Bethesda should be able to do far better.

[@stal2496]

if you ask me oblivion is memorable for its side quests and side questlines plus the shivering isles and the knights of the nine DLCs rather than its combat. you can get 2 mods for morrowind and it will be like oblivions combat but you cant get a mod that changes every side quest

[@morrigan7454]

I crapped my pants laughing when Zaric popped up suddenly on the corner xDDDDDD

[@QuantumParticle]

I think Dragon Age Origins represented one of the best balances between graphical fidelity/immersion and player freedom. It didn't have voice acting for the main player character but the other characters were voiced. There were multiple, impactful plot branches that allowed the player to explore his or her own sense of morality without a binary "pick this good or bad option".

[@JETWTF]

I preferred Oblivion, and with mods it still looks and plays decent today. I enjoyed it most because it was the most lighthearted... Annoying Fan, Dunmer asking about the fines for necrophilia, do a quest to make a court nude during dinner, Get a ring that weighs allot from a well to be told to drop it because it's worthless... Then it wasn't all handholding but it wasn't obfuscating, How to join the Dark Brotherhood or Thieves guild? In Skyrim they were forced upon you regardless if you wanted them or not. Tale Of Two Wastelands is pure awesomsauce… play FO3 then when bored after the ending move to the Mojave and get shot in the head. Lone Wanderer becomes The Courier.

[@williamstiefel8916]

this video is just think kind of thing I like to see from you.

[@elbvidya1968]

You know what, I think I can enjoy Skyrim and Fallout 4 a lot more after your explanation of what the Todd Howard games really are. Elder Scrolls and modern Fallout just being fun action games makes a lot more sense than the dumbed down RPGs I have been regarding them as. Thanks! I will reinstall Skyrim and try and enjoy them using that perspective. I think it's going to be much more fun now. With that in mind, Todd Howard made the right kind of decisions (besides using a terribly old engine)

[@jormungandr7885]

I can't say what my favourite Elder Scrolls game is either. Some things i like the most in Morrowind, some things about Oblivion. The only thing Skyrim did better than the previous games was graphics. I havn't played Daggerfall though, yet.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

I'd argue that Oblivion had better factions than Morrowind but I loved your perspective of "things are taken out but things are also put in" it's my view as well people look at it only as "the dumbing down" without considering the context of the changes

[@EasyGameEh]

oblivion factions are dull without any real substance to them. some interesting quests (heavyly scripted) - yes. but better factions? no way.

[@cyberninjazero5659]

EasyGameEh for one The Dark Brotherhood your argument is invalid for two Morrowinds guild were nothing but dull Oblivion kept Guild bureaucracy but also added interesting quests and characters. Morrowinds guilds had nothing but bureaucracy with no interesting quests (they have the always popular "kill rats" quest)

[@EasyGameEh]

if it's just kill rats quest for you then i won't even waste my time anymore here. good luck.

[@petyrbaelish4245]

+EasyGameEh Someone has to do the job.

[@northernvigilant4203]

Morrowind has far greater and more interesting guilds, there's no comparison when it comes to that. In this aspect Morrowind even beats Skyrim by far.

[@JamesDeal1982]

"So you could shoot a fireball like that. Awesome."

[@williamwilson1870]

“You can roleplay in bed” instant like.

[@spartanq7781]

He's not wrong.😏

[@RedGalago]

You could argue that the very caste-focused aspect of Morrowind was part of what made it so easy to assign dialogue groups in that game, because linguistically members of a certain group would sound very similar. Though I do think that the more recent Horizon Zero Dawn hit an excellent balance between cardboard-cutout NPCs that are assigned a specific role and the actual character NPCs that you interact with on a regular basis.

[@Fractal_blip]

After playing so much on a few Arma 3 rpgs, I had to cut it out. Too much time for too little of a reward

[@ColeWolfsson]

your videos are always on point

[@MisterClassified]

HALT-HALT! You don't need classes to give one's character some background. Classes are as clumsy as the "press R to ready your hand for spellcasting". I like that Skyrim ditched classes. However, I think that some sort of "background" should still exist for a character. For that we can have the "choose your background" dialogue. Depending on what one ansvers to questions, one will start out better in certain skills and stuff. If one wants to implement that different characters have a knack for different things, then this charGen dialogue would also ask the questions that will set one's affinities and weaknesses.

[@ZenoDovahkiin]

Complains about classes being "clumsy", then proceeds to replace custom classes with a stupid dialogue. A classic ES custom class would always give you the ability to make any character you liked, while the "answer some questions" method just always gives you a default class. In what way is having a default class after some questions better than making your own class? (Hint: It isn't.) And yes, I know you said "no classes", but your dialogue will always have a finite amount of outcomes. A bunch of your questions would just determine some flavour or "you get +30 lightning res and -20 fire res", so let' say the selection of actual attribute and skill altering questions have a total of sixty different outcomes. Congratulations, you made sixty different classes, which I can't choose directly since you insist there are no classes, so if I want to play a specific one, you go full PMD on me and make me try to get what I want out of your little quiz. In what way is that better than giving me a custom class option? The best way we saw so far were Oblivion and Morrowind: Choose your main abilities, what attributes to focus on, that then determines what abilities will start higher and how fast you can improve which ability. What Skyrim did was put everything on 15, give to abilities +5, one +10 based on race, advancement in all skills is the same, and all your characters play the exact same, because all of them can do everything no matter what. Taking attributes like strength and intelligence out was done so you can't really misspec your character into certain strengths and weaknesses you might want to revise later, a skill that reaches 100 can be reset and you get your perks back because god forbid your character has any sort limitations as a result of not having infinite respecs. So maybe what you describe as "clumsy" are *well defined characters.*

[@MisterClassified]

Don't even get me started on the "attributes and skills" subject. I am glad that Skyrim buried that abomination - I even applaud them for it. But aside from that, the remaining stats were still as meh as they have always been. The pre-Skyrim attributes were just a silly over complication. Such stat complexity suits only into isometric or text based RPG's. In Daggerfall, the use of them was justified, since the game couldn't really simulate most things with its gameplay,. Anyways, back to the topic - indeed, not having a "class" can be considered as everyone being the same class. I can also claim that by having classes, everyone doesn't really have a class. There are just a bunch of skills with modifiers attached that increase or decrease experience gain. So, lets not delve into that, since this only leads to arguing about semantics. Besides, if you are just gonna choose your skills from a list, why even use a class. What's the point. You can just start up Skyrim and only use Two-Handed Swords or whatever. Besides, having to choose the most vital things one is going to use at the beginning of the game is a really retarded design choice. I am amazed that such a thing has persisted for so long. Again, kudos to Skyrim for mending that retardation. Also, your beloved classes are nothing more than vestigial parts of the early DnD(pre-1st ed, 1ed, etc) legacy. There they were needed, due to the unique gameplay constraints that these games had. Games like Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim are a different league of games alltogether. And you are here arguing for "classes" simply because they have been in most RPG's. Also, not having classes doesn't mean that characters should start out at 5-15 in every skill. The charGen dialogue/menu options can grant boosts aswell. In the end, we are both arguing for the same thing, but from different angles. We are arguing for ways to customize the background of the character. You insist on classes, I insist on less hamfisted method. I, for one, would even be pleased, if future games kept classes, but didn't call them classes - removed anything that mentions one's class. No class name in stat screen, no "major skills", no "minor skills". Instead of "major skills" there would be "Talents", instead of "minor skills" there would be "Aptitudes". Only place where you could pick your class is in character generation where you are asked "What did you do for a living before becoming adventurer?". There you could answer that "I was a militia recruit(Knight)" or "I was involved with the mafia(Thief)" or "I was a personal assistant of a mage(Mage)".

[@Amonny]

Oh boy, you don't ask too much from a game, do you?

[@MisterClassified]

It really is not that much.

[@scorpiothegreat1]

Its because of these conversations that I subscribed. Great job!

[@manarayofhope2374]

your new years eve steam was a blast you are in my top 10 for you tubers

[@geraltgrey-mane695]

kingdom come deliverance!!!!!!!!!!? cant wait for it ^^

[@gungun1836]

Geralt Grey-Mane hell yeah

[@abc123a5]

Geralt Grey-Mane do you like it now thats its out?

[@cendresaphoenix1974]

abc 123a I do I think its great although could be improved a bit I still really like it.

[@Ed-ealmighty]

Zaric about the tricking ppl into thinking your world is bigger... The witcher 3 basically used what i call the Llittle Big Planet theme Where u creat a game like Lost Planet 2... Your character and the world is actually small and the enemies and objects (buildings, etc) seem to be much bigger but its because the camera is so close to your character... Thats what they did with the Witcher 3 and thats what the Elder Scrolls could do. Imagine being able to control the camera similar to Skyrim... Lets use Mirrors Edge for 1st person view and Dead Space 3 for 3rd person view) either way we are supet close to our character Now because Elder Scrolls uses the Micheal Bay theme (Everything has to be Ginormous) is why they have so many graphical limitations.

[@jon-from-tx]

Speaking of Planescape: Torment, have you had a chance to check out Torment: Tides of Numenera?

[@wolfgod6443]

Remember this: The game Todd is said to have the most control over, his full vision: Elder Scrolls Redguard. The game Todd has said is the best TES game, even recently: Oblivion. And many writers and even some people who had already left Bethesda at the time were extremely proud of Oblivion.

[@Zyrdalf]

I don’t remember what I was expecting when I clicked on this video, because it was 11 minutes ago. But i just remember it being something completely different. Good video though.

[@Liam-B]

That intro gave me chills.

[@7643764]

Yeah, we are moving towards an interactive movie experience. And that's all we are going to get from "realistic high fidelity" games in the future. But hey a game could never tell a story better than a book, the same way a movie can't. To do that we would need different media, such as the anime format, or manga format. Here is the catch though, as early as 2030 we can get SAI (super AIs) these beings comparable to gods will allow us to do all sorts of stuff that we would never be able to do without them. Basically after you learn about AI and how it's going to change the world, scifi will be ruined to you forever...

[@themk4982]

Gustavo Silva When we get super A.I's they will literally do years of scientific discovery in hours, it will be insane and confusing.

[@imperishableneet]

That's why they call it the singularity.

[@PinInCruiZ]

Damn I'm itching to dive into some VR AI-orchestrated hentai game

[@davidrossington9756]

Gotta say, you got pretty far in that dungeon without falling through the floor

[@sonic333ful]

I agree with the whole idea of "The Todd Howard Scrolls". If you checked out his interviews you can tell that he wants the player to be the center of attention and be awesome, which is not a bad thing imo. You basically affirmed that with what you said in this video.

[@ZenoDovahkiin]

Zaric already said power fantasy is fine in theory. And I'm with him on this. It's just not what the ES games were originally about, and the newer games in some respects implement power fantasy oriented mechanics very poorly. Like with the world treating you like a nobody or as mentioned here, giving you a power fantasy and then limiting player choice.

[@sonic333ful]

Oh. Yea I am 100% on you with that. I don't hate it at all. I just thought how his whole "Todd Howard Scrolls" thing does actually have somekind of proof to support it.

[@Chrisfragger1]

I got Daggerfall recently and tried playing it. I don't know if it's just my game, it's broken or what, but EVERYONE hates me, no matter what race I am, no matter my personality, it makes it HARD as hell to play, especially when I need to get info, like someone's home location for a quest. Everyone basically spits in my face, regardless of my character. Noble Knight? Murderous Kahjit? Doesn't matter they hate me just the same.

[@512TheWolf512]

Only the "race" part of PCMR is ironic. PC's are OBJECTIVELY better. There's nothing to argue about.

[@kingcobrajfssepaboosterclub]

The fallout 1 and 2 maps are bigger than fallout 3 but 99% of them is basically as much fun pointing a Lazer pointer at a blank map of a desert

[@The_Gallowglass]

I preferred Oblivion to Skyrim, for a lot of reasons. The world looks so much better in Skyrim though. That's life.

[@imperishableneet]

Very good points. Voice acting however isn't insurmountable. Procedural text-to-speech is getting better and better. Apple Siri was handcrafted from a recorded actor pronouncing sets of phonemes to chain together with TTS software. Check out Google's upcoming Wavenet TTS that can construct semi-realistic sentences from arbitrary datasets of a given voice. event[0] had TTS VO that could respond to your input. Half chatbot and half command line parser. It didn't have to be realistic since it was a robot/AI. Let me tell you, I haven't played any voice-acted game with as rich a dialogue system. You don't get a much better dialogue system than a full-blown parser.

[@Darkdodge]

I hear Zaric impersonate "lower class", I upvote!

[@StratEdgyProductions]

I feel under dressed for this classy video.

[@kylespratt4419]

So Arena: story scope Daggerfall: size and freedom Morrowind: story detail and physical combat Oblivion: magic Skyrim: visuals

[@metallicarabbit]

Morrowind is also "Todd Howard scrolls" he was lead on that too

[@Zhakaron]

Ken Rolston was the creative lead of Morrowind, he was still on the project for Oblivion but he took a more hands off approach due to having his attention split. If you want to look at Todd's mark on Morrowind check out the Imperial Legion quests, the worst faction in the game. There's a reason he would in future games stop working directly on them and take a more administrative role.

[@BazookaTooth707]

That's why big time actors are more involved in games now. It's moving towards a cinematic experience only Hollywood can provide.

[@BazookaTooth707]

The amount of money needed to produce these games is tremendous. Investors are willing to invest more money then ever but less willing to try out new things because of the potential risk. If more people moved to PC, I think things would be vastly different

[@MegaVice10]

I'd love hearing your perspective on the differences between Warcraft 3 and Wow in terms of storytelling. For me WC3 was the height of Warcraft lore and storytelling and wow even though I loved the game it really did kill the story of the game by limiting its creative scope transforming it into a static world.

[@MemoriesLP]

15:00 - I dont get it. What is a rpg for you? Being able to change the outcome of things? So Life is Strange and Walking Dead are rpgs?

[@marialuke2116]

Wait, but isn't there a modding project trying to make such a big world for TES3: Morrowind? What was it called again...? was it Tamriel Rebuilt? I know it had an .esm called "TR_Data" or something similar.

[@medianoob9010]

My main question I have for you is, why does a story have to have multiple branching paths and choices and possibilities to be a good story? Now I agree that that's the point of a more rpg oriented game, but i also agree that that's not TES style. Oblivion has some of the best quests in the series for me! The entire dark brotherhood storyline is amazing and has such a good end with th whole traitor and the psycho feel. Not to mention the mission where you murder everyone in the mansion! Now their was a few choices of how to complete that particular mission, the overal storyline was linear but still amazing

[@ZenoDovahkiin]

You are talking about games that claim to be open world RPGs. A linear story can be good, but is bad if you emphasise player choice and then take player choice away in favour of cinematic storytelling.

[@medianoob9010]

ZenoDovahkiin No one is going to say no to more choice and more ways to complete quests (even if not multiple outcomes) But I don't think they claim to emphasise player choice. I think they claim to offer a sandbox with activies where a player can assume their own roles and create their own stories.

[@jacobcarden814]

A great video, I also want to point out that I wish more consumers would have the viewpoint of businesses and corporations that you do as I see far to many people having extreme expectations (fallout 4 being a prime example here) when the thing they should take into consideration is that, at the end of the day, the only thing that corporation wants from you is your money. Low expectations are always preferable for me and I think that I'll be taking a bit of a break from Bethesda games in the near future in order to pursue older RPG's made before my time which I find intriguing.

[@hansolav5924]

why did they not keep ANYTHING from daggerfall?? why did nobody copy it AT ALL? the best game I've EVER played, and NO gamedev seems to have ANY INTEREST in copying it in any way, shape or form.

[@Kaucukovnik666]

And when VR finally becomes successful, we'll be back to Space Invaders grade gameplay. Game design will center around making the most basic activities playable with MAXIMUM IMMERSION! You won't be able to do anything else than swing your weapon for a while, but it will be the most realistic and impressive weapon swinging games have ever had. And before implementation of the full range of usual RPG activities in VR is figured out, there will be yet another revolution to set us back.

[@kingslayers7]

Hey Zaric I was thinking about the reply vid about the Altmairi Dominion and who they want to return to a time before time before Man existed and they lived forever. If that happened would it mean that the Altmairi would declare war on the Dardic princes? I Mean a end to time would be a end of the Hunt for Hircine, a end to the Domination that Molog Bal wants, end to the Madness and Fun of Shagorath, end of disease for Namira, no more souls for the Ideal Masters etc... just wondering your thoughts or anyone's really Sorry for misspelling.

[@hikerwolfspaine8200]

Letting you fail should be a more explored option in game design. If you kill the quest required person then you should just fail the quest as you would expect to.

[@GrizzlerBorno]

I think the bigger discussion here is the contemporary irrelevance of (singleplayer) Roleplaying games as a form of escapism. Your description of Daggerfall being a fantasy life simulator is appropriate, but it also existed prior to the hundred of other games that allow you to escape reality in much more immersive ways. True, most players on mmorpgs aren't 'playing roles' (although EVE online and smaller games show how serious they can get) but they are still long-term investements because there is a community aspect. The 'content', so to speak, comes from the community. That's why the only people still playing Skyrim are the mod-lovers. The community keeps bringing them back, even if it isn't a multiplayer game par se. Which is perfect for us, lame-ass nerds that want to FEEL like we're part of a community, without actually having to interact with people XD

[@1luarluar1]

42) Stories in games are rather basic but there is no reason why they couldn't reach deeper levels; the same is for the characters, the NPCs; I exhort the modders to concentrate their attention on a single NPC trying to give it exceptional deepness, to show what can be achieved in a game; a very deep NPC could bring life to the whole game. 43) Voice-acted technology does not work, even if the acting voices are well done (which is very rare) there is always the feeling that are detached from the NPCs; I prefer much more just the writings and simple unique sounds to give presence and to the NPCs; for example, an hostile NPC could have aggressive sounds, while a friendly NPC could have some relaxing sounds; I would like to suggest to give at least one unique sound for every NPC that suggest its personality; voice-acted technology is about realism but reality is an false friend of games. 44) Most of the NPCs usually communicate informations that the player usually does not want to hear, is better silence then boring informations; keep them at a minimum and convey emotions instead of informations. 45) Older RPGs have usually more mystery and have a more immersive quality, because they were relying less on realism and more on the feeling of the story, on the deepness of the characters; don't let the technology drives and wins over the art of imaginations which is much more powerful. 46) A world with simple graphics like using sprites or very basic 3D models with maybe just few important texture can be much more complex in therms of characters, story and gameplay; I suggest to modders to use an older engine to create a more immersive world; what about Bethesda using an old engine to create a new game, I'm sure it will be a very unique experience and will challenge the team. 47) I think a game should let you create the story and characters in your mind, it has to push you to imagine. 48) I think that receiving and completing missions or quests from an NPC is a rigid way to be immersed in a game and it feels like the open world game suddenly become like a narrow experience. 49) Simple and non realistic graphics have a charm that for me is more powerful, for example, Gothic 2 has a great atmosphere that other more recent games have not. 50) Sometime the best games in terms of complexity, graphics, sounds, budget, are actually not working to create a sense of immersion and other games, more simple, less complicated, with a lower technology succeed instead to create a believable and immersive world. 51) A masterpiece is a game that constantly surprises the player with new locations, new NPCs, enemies, behaviors, stories and; I think that the more the game is simple, the more it can be deep and engaging. 52) Instead of working on creating a very detailed world, is better having a varied world; for example for the sound, instead of having hundreds of sounds inside a village, I think is more effective having just few sounds typical for each different place; I much more prefer having sounds that characterize uniquely different places instead of having the same hundreds of sounds in every village, for example. 53) If you need to use voice-acted technology, instead of using hundreds of actors, just hire a really talented single one that does all the readings; a powerful warm voice is much more engaging and emotional effective. 54) A sprite enemy NPC with a great sound has a bigger presence then a super sophisticated 3D model with a weak sound. 55) The dialogs, the voice acting, the missions and the story have to belong to the world the game creates and not from our modern time (most of the RPGs set in a magic world make this mistake, they are not believable because all the elements I cited feel like from our time); Build the dialogs ancient dialogs, eerie dialogs, craft the missions like they were from a different culture, a different time, create a story that does not have modern values, but ancient, completely out of our way of thinking, make us confront a new reality not just a transposition of something we already know...and the voices...please..the voices...make them mysterious...ancient, primitive, full of wonder, not spoiled by our way to understand life.... 56) Keep it simple and you will be more free. (Bruce Lee) 57) A game should always remain mysterious, open constantly to new interpretations...like a Kubrick movie... The game is always in the mind of the player, a game is like a key that unlocks the multilayered places of our souls. 58) Use less polygons, use more interesting textures. In Might and Magic 6,7,8 for example the world is created with very simple structures, very few polygons but the textures compensate in a big way as they characterise the places in memorable ways and some few focused details instead will bring the world alive. 59) If a game is made with too many people and money will most probably fail or become unintersesting because it loses its visionary integrity, keep the developer team relatively small. 60) Is a painting that reproduces perfectly the reality interesting? I think it is not interesting, it lacks of imagination, which is the first and main tool of our doing as human being. So, in a game, do not be real, use the imagination, in shapes, in stories, in colours, in Npcs, in crafting a world, in crafting a quest, in crafting an enemy....use your imagination eye, not the technological eye...do and observe what you are doing, do not be slave of reality, do not be slave of a technology....if you can create a detailed Npcs with fluid animations...well, try to create a simple Npc, with no fluid animations, with little polygon count, trust your emotional eye....an emotional eye prefers to focus on the primitive, on the simple, not distracted by distracting details. 59) Because a game has to be mysterious, do not create an engine that has a long drawing distance, keep the fog, keep the mystery, let the player discover things and places, do not guide the player; also keep the night dark, night is made to rest, the night asks the player to find a shelter, a place where to rest and meditate about things, the night has to bring a new gameplay, activities that have to be different compared with the daylight..use the power of the cycles that nature offers, follow the cycles of the lights, of the weather, of the actions, of the rests, of the excitement, of the calm, of the violence, of the grace, of the noises, of the silences.61) There is a strong and unnatural detachment from what is recorded in a studio from the actors that are reading lines of dialogues and what happens during the gameplay; I think this happens for two orders or reason: 1) actors read lines of dialogues and cannot connect properly from what happens on the screen because they are not there, this feels so unnatural. 2) the recordings happen in a studio, so from a completely different place compared with a forest, street or any other place the games are set. The solution? Recording the dialogues and sound effects on real places; this would gift the game of a powerful and realistic sound. I know that is hard and costly to implement, but I think it could be done limiting the ammount of dialogues and complementing it with written txt. In a way, there is no need to act everything , just very few important lines to give the feeling of it. 62) Use framerate as a specific tool for creating particular moods. Very often developers consider a high framerate as a golden goal to achieve at all costs; I disagree as a low framerate has a magical quality that it is worth to implement and try. 63) I don't want to press a button and see my character to do a lot of performance, it feels like not being in control, this is the trend of modern games where everything is done for you, click!... And the character is flying, kicking and grabbing and slashing...I think someone introduced this style and then everyone copied it because it was a novelty, but what are the consequences of this automated system? The consequence and result is a less interactive and engaging game, detached from the control of the player, so much much better to simplify and go back to the old system, a click, an action. 64) The first thing that a game designer should think of is: how can I create a game that interacts with thre fantasy of the player? realistic graphics does not do that, at all, on the contrary realistic graphics patronise the fantasy of the gamer, and we don't want to patronise anyone.

[@vogonp4287]

The player character in Morrowind most likely mantled the Neravarine. They did the things that were set down in prophecy so well that they became indistinguishable from the actual thing thus making them the actual thing.

[@eogh]

I know Fallout:NV isn't made by Bethesda directly but in my opinion it was the best of the Bethesda formula mixed with the best of Mass Effect choices.

[@linguisticallyoversight8685]

So if you took the main quest from Arena as well as the size and scale with the fantasy Life aspects of Daggerfall as well as it's massively diverse skill sets added in the attention to detail and feudal governance found in Morrowind with the combat and spell-casting of Oblivion and the graphics of Skyrim that would be literally the best game ever made

[@thermallance7947]

To me, only Daggerfall can be considered a true RPG. Hell, you can even get loans and be expelled from a kingdom for being an asshole... Pretty much IMO the only game in the series that can be considered that way. Arena was kind of too simplistic and the later games became more and more streamlined. Crawling away from that strong role-playing foundation. Sure the main quest itself has multiple branch but it is not as extensive as some other RPGs. But, everything else is pure roleplaying goodness. In any case... While I do understand what you mean when you call these games action games with RPG elements. I have to disagree in the specific case of Daggerfall. That game went so far away compared to it's predecessor it cannot be ignored. Kind of reminds me of games like Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder. Except you got free movement and actual meaningful choices. EDIT: In fact it REALLY reminds me of Dungeon Hack with it's randomly generated dungeons.

[@NobodyDungeons]

I wonder if you could computer generate voices to read lines that would allow you to completely remove the cost of voice actors, and hopefully allow you to add more dialogue to the games themselves as it would be much easier to have a computer talk into a microphone 24/7 without a salary than have a voice actor work a 40 to 50 hour week and have to pay them

[@thomashuffcutt9414]

You are the Dovahkiin. Yet you can't end Riften's corruption, the plight of the Reachman, nor can you drive back the Thalmor.

[@vahloksekun646]

Some points: 1. About voice acting, I found this video about a new kind of software which is supposed to be able to dynamically generate voice lines: kzbin.info/www/bejne/faa9eH5thtSfl6c I'm not much of an expert on this and I'm highly sceptical it actually works this easily, but if it does, voice acting might become a lot easier to manage. 2. The Skyrim Tamriel Worldspace cannot be expanded much further without going over the 128x128 cell limit. But, a possible workaround would be to make each Hold its own worldspace, the size of the Vanilla Skyrim Worldspace. Of course, this wouldn't be very feasible as a lot of land needs to be recreated, let alone all the compatibility issues with existing mods.

[@HamanKarn567]

I agree that Combat was the best in Oblivion. I think Morrowind has the best designs in the way everything looks as well such as most armor and weapon designs and of course the diversity. I did hate that in Skyrim how I couldn't kill her because she is a Vampire and I really did want to kill her. I think some things like that should be in the base game and you shouldn't have to mod certain things for the games.

[@andrewc3336]

You just banished the English language to the shivering isles. Please attempt to retrieve it.

[@Harry_S._Plinkett]

Andrew Corbett In the English language, we tend to capitalize proper nouns, such as the Shivering Isles.

[@BazookaTooth707]

Harry S. Plinkett Caught him slipping

[@criosray]

Skyrim ranged combat is waaaaay better than any previous TES title, though.

[@MrTaxMan666]

It would be cool if characters came in specific classes regarding whether or not they could be killed or are essential. Main characters, Supporitng CHaracters (followers that cant be romanced and other plot/story/quest oriented characters as well as Nobles, Jarls, Kings, leaders of factions, etc. Standard characters (merchants that aren't supporting or main characters, gaurds, bandits and bandit leaders, etc.) Then generics or commons/unnamed. Unnamed characters cant kill or encroach upon standard or supporting and main characters. Standards cant kill supporting or main characters except in scripted events. Supporitng characters as well. Main Characters can kill Main characters and only YOU can kill other main characters. If you do, then there would be multiple ways for quests to be completed without the need of a quest giver to talk to at the initiation of quests and the end and rewarding for completions.

[@BarokaiRein]

Meanwhile Divinity original sin 2 came along and said ''yes,you an have branching dialogue and also have voice acting''

[@vogonp4287]

An indie Daggerfall/Arena spiritual successor would be great.

[@lexsduck6892]

It helps to have a map

[@roach9397]

Helps to have a map.... Helps to have a map...

[@wilhelmrk]

Detraks do the same I did in minecraft , drawing one on the go

[@ZenoDovahkiin]

Who needs a map?

[@criosray]

3d maps in a huge multilevel dungeon of Daggerfall... were very helpful (not).