Danceable Shred - Ben Levin

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[@DBruce]

This is some of the coolest stuff I've ever heard. Genius status confirmed

[@OjoRojo40]

Congratulations you just discovered West African guitar style playing. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mqGweYywospmeLs

[@BenLevin]

Thank you David! It’s an exciting journey already ‼️

[@julienz2024]

@@OjoRojo40 it's what I thought from the beginning. Still very creative though

[@OjoRojo40]

@@julienz2024 Indeed.

[@olgierdvoneverec4135]

@@OjoRojo40 holly shit, i love that, thanks so much for sharing the link.

[@hisham_hm]

in this episode: Ben begins by reinventing the Spirit of the Radio riff and we end up realizing that Discipline riffs over modern beats sounds like Polyphia

[@juicebox86]

ha. just typed polyphia and scrolled to see this. cheers!

[@karinamaloney1033]

So many guitarists just get lost in that shred psyche. They're so obsessed with their own virtuosity that they don't stop and wonder if anyone's actually listening to them anymore. I love the self awareness here. Well composed guitar shred is the best. Also, evan and joe are awesome.

[@FlaxeMusic]

Aye, need to record themselves to hear back how not good it is.

[@BigDaddyWes]

So many guitarists get started in an attempt to get recognition and attention and they think playing fast is more important than music education and actually developing their craft.

[@giovanni21mas]

guthrie govan

[@FlaxeMusic]

@@giovanni21mas One of many examples of the antithesis of mindful shred.

[@TheZooropaBaby]

Eddie Hazel kind of shreds and noodles and it kind of works, for me, he moves me

[@flatterswhite]

I forgot that Ben can shred, I guess that says a lot about his humbleness

[@benjamindroogmans496]

You might wanna take a look at Thundercat's playing, he shreds like mad but his music is still nice and groovy

[@sierra3644]

dat boys music so JUICEYY

[@giladbaruch147]

80's King Crimson called and said they were 40 years ahead of everyone

[@marius9372]

Discipline surely is a total masterpiece

[@JohnsDough1918]

As usual, King Crimson's collective psyche was living in the freakin' future.

[@BigDaddyWes]

It's always a great to sit down and analyze your musical idiosyncrasies and patterns you fall into when you go on auto pilot. Trying to play something you've never played before is just as valuable to me as perfecting the things I play all the time.

[@thalesbentancour7186]

"TRY TO RELAX YOUR A N U S!"

[@emperorspock3506]

That was unexpected indeed.

[@JaMeshuggah]

Honestly it really surprised me cause I thought tight butthole = good playing

[@pedroabreu005]

I was looking for this comment lol

[@Am6-9]

Might lead to an unexpected brown note, though...

[@jakejensen810]

Hes realizing how much of his audience is on the toilet while watching his videos Its M E T A

[@taiteo558]

part of why hendrix's playing still holds up so well is that it's all of this octave jumping and complex shit, but always done so as more of an embellishment on solid rhythm playing than anything. I feel like that's what so many miss, like, do as many double stops as you want, but unless you have a good sense of rhythm and timing, it's still not going to sound like hendrix

[@oldtimetinfoilhatwearer]

Taite Brinkmann especially with band of gypsies. They’re playing beat music at the core

[@onemerlin]

Evan said it perfectly - the key is never losing the accent. Think like a drummer, throw in all the grace notes you want as long as long as the driving beat is rock solid.

[@onemerlin]

And I was wandering thru KZbin before bed, as one does, and came across a Santana show from 1977. If the guitar solo starting around 3:15 doesn't qualify as danceable shred, I don't know what does: kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4HHiJl4qbyfj8k

[@markpagslo1505]

Is your drummer really a drummer if they don't have Ben saying pizza on one of their pads?

[@karinamaloney1033]

Oh you'll like this if you havent seen it already.... kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpytf2yMed2SY6s

[@karinamaloney1033]

@@aMolleTargate pizza ordered at the :40 sec mark

[@dudeman5303]

Lol the pad thats programmed with the king of the hill quote "I DONT KNOW YOU", that episode is ridiculous. To all who dont know it, Its the one where Bobby gets put in a self defense class by his dad hank because Bobby was bullied in school, but little does hank know its a women's self defense class so they taught Bobby to yell "THAT'S MY PURSE I D0NT KNOW YOU" and then to kick them in the nuts. He ends up kicking Hank in the nuts at some point in the episode haha

[@sleepninja2350]

Lol I love youtube comments, never know what you'll find down here.

[@gab_gallard]

I think this is the ethos of many current math rock bands, and for that same reason is why that particular sub-genre is having an awesome momentum right now. It feels refreshing, shredding with substance.

[@davestubbington1832]

Reminds me of Afro-beat guitar which I think is centred around the traditional drum patterns. As always great stuff, thanks B.

[@Schwa_Iska]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@thaizzz]

And the solos are 16th notes so the rythmn doesn't get lost.

[@tmzFRM]

Also remembers Brazilian guitarrada: kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6TCfH5-qa6oqrc

[@Dr3amDisturb3r]

The melodic concepts to making the shred danceable is a well known approach in psy/goa trance music. Astral Projection, Infected Mushroom and Electric Universe are some of the big names that come to mind, who really pushed the genre in the 90s :)

[@forrcaho]

The best to my ears was approach 2 (the "tumbao") at 3:29 -- really has an afro-pop feel for me.

[@elfinfini]

I felt something at that moment too....

[@adancein]

Usually when i watch these I'm like "hey, that's awesome stuff, i'm gonna try it!" but this time I'm just like "damn ben, you so good!" and then "ok, I can't do that".

[@BenLevin]

Masterschiief you can do it! Just start slow and take your time. I spent a long time getting this stuff ready and I had lots of takes before I got these right!

[@adancein]

@@BenLevin Thanks for encouraging! I guess I'm gonna start at 50 bpm and work my way up from there.

[@sammiller9855]

I like the concept of using silence to help with the groove (e.g, rests on 2 and 4) in the video when shredding. It's like a call-and-response where the response is silence.

[@QuistJam]

LOVE ITTTTT

[@juno980]

This is neat! At some points in the video I thought it sounded kinda like the Touareg stuff that's been getting a bit more attention lately, like Tinariwen, Imarhan and Mdou Moctar. Not to mention a lot of guitar centered British dancepop from the mid 2000s had this exact sound.

[@saynomoresaynomore3683]

Mdou Moctar! ♥ There is some great stuff on the Sahel Sounds label honestly. You should also listen to Interzone (Serge Teyssot-Gay & Khaled Aljaramani), some of the riff Ben is doing here that are really similar to what this guitarist creates.

[@juno980]

Saynomore Saynomore I will! Thanks for the recommendation.

[@dclarkmusic]

Polyphia is the most danceable shred stuff I’ve ever heard

[@jowo7295]

These licks made me think of Polyphia as well!

[@Trevor_M_F]

Wow I was about to comment about Polyphia. Good stuff

[@DominicAirola]

Check out Charlie Robbins, similar type of vibe

[@arkaroy213]

@@DominicAirola love his works.... There is also Mestis- Xavier Reyes' side project

[@arkaroy213]

@@AzathothsAlarmClock yeah... Even Tosin Abasi cites Squarepusher as an influence.

[@krisluna32]

I like how members from my favorite band pop up in your videos sometimes. Thank You Scientist slaps harder than my dad

[@stefansegi2540]

Prince uses similar 3 over 4 lick in Why you treat me so bad solo. And it is... dancable!

[@An_Amazing_Login5036]

I love this! It looks like part of why I like dragonforce shredding is that they’ve really got the groove prioritised before the shred in their composed parts, and even the improv parts of their solos don’t go too far into virtuosity for it’s own sake.

[@dliessmgg]

The way I would go about this is, I would take the different elements of a drum kit and map them to different pitch areas, and create a groove like that.

[@trailblazer225]

I've kinda tried this before but I always find that melody is its own language and a one-to-one translation from percussion like that doesn't really capture what makes something groovy, and it ends up sounding disjointed and overly technical (to my taste at least). I'm not at a guitar right now but my attempt at this would be to give the backbeat rhythmic weight instead of just melodic weight. By which I mean, make the notes on the important beats (usually 1 and 3) longer and the notes between them all the fast twiddly shreddy things. The bigger the difference, the groovier it is, but even just putting eighth notes on 1 and 3 and playing 16th notes for the rest of the measure brings in some of that groove.

[@KaninTuzi]

Dave Grohl famously writes most of his riffs this way

[@snardash_1197]

When you take a MIDI track for a melodic piano or something when you move it to percussion it usually grooves fucking hard At least in my experience

[@thatoneeyedkid]

8:42 lifechanging

[@BlGGESTBROTHER]

I was literally in the act of eating a slice of pizza when the drum kit started saying "Pizza, Pizza, Pizza" and it tripped me out.

[@TheJebBushOrchestra]

I admire this outlook on music and fun over chops

[@TheChodex]

We actually have danceable shreds in Balkan in forms of "Kolo", or "Oro" (ex. Piperkovo Oro, Kalajdzisko oro, Uzicko kolo... - usually played on accordion but when played on guitar it turns into shred)

[@itsgoubie]

"let 2 and 4 breathe" That's very solid advice

[@natanielruiz818]

Not only is this super innovative, you’re effectively teaching us.

[@trisstunes]

I'd recommend looking into bluegrass! They've got some very dance-y shred going on there

[@ExtremelyVolatile-]

dude this gave concept to how ive been feeling about the guitar lately... amazing stuff.

[@mx676]

I feel totally identified with your video as a guitar player. A decade ago I used to loved guitar shred stuff (and I still do), but Now I'm into more electronic sounds and also danceable beats. Thanks for always surprising me with crazy new stuff. Love ya dude

[@ijobrien3]

I'm not even halfway done with this video dude, but you have given me more inspiration in the last 4 minutes than from any of my guitar heroes. I can't believe I just found out about you...

[@DreamPurpleFloyd]

Some of those ideas combined with that clean tone remind me a lot of Afro Beat guitarists. They always play those really crisp and danceable lead parts!

[@spacemen2629]

You're now officially my favorite youtuber

[@misterfyde]

Ben, you'd love Chon, Polyphia, and SAWCE, they're totally doing danceable shred of all different flavors!

[@ShanevsDCsniperr]

covet >>>

[@david_lynch]

Reminds me of Robert Fripp lines on 80-s King Crimson albums :)

[@blacktongue1000]

"Repetition legitimizes" - Sir Neely

[@Ludix147]

Repetition legitimizes.

[@PrinceofPersia6423]

I've been thinking about this concept from a while, and have found a lot of inspiration from horn players like Shabaka Hutchings. He's able to play crazy one note lines that are both extremely melodically and rhythmically rich. For example playing with counterpoint and having underlying repeated melodies seem to help with building this sense of something being both "shreddy" and still very musical.

[@shirimewows3394]

Love this angle and research avenue - thanks for putting this out there. I'm late as usual, but oh well - not sure if you're still working this angle, but maybe food for thought - There are several somewhat glib comments here about various "folk" dance traditions with "shred", but there might be a lot to it - flamenco, tons of Oud styles... uh, well, almost anything around the Mediterranean, African kora and ngoni, Japanese tsugaru jamisen, American bluegrass - there's got to be an interesting comparative study in there about all these (dance) musics where picked/plucked string instruments play rapid, consistent lines while still establishing/contributing to a powerful, danceable groove. Heck, might be cool to look at some of the talented folks in EDM and their heavy use of arpeggiators to generate driving textures. Closer to home, perhaps, is some of the amazing stuff Tosin Abasi is working on. Seems like once you have the technical facility, the game is to leave the mentality of "constant 1/16s at 180bpm = solo" to just exploring the cool rhythmic/textural stuff that you have access to. Looking forward to next chapter! Again, appreciate the channel! Peace.

[@robsmith5434]

The stork delivered you such a beautiful shredding bass baby!

[@broomer142]

I didn't want this to end. Such a great concept and I feel like there is so much more to explore! I really hope you do a part 2!

[@OwenAdamsMusic]

I think the more important aspect to "danceable" is what you DON'T play! Shove some *long rests* into your insane licks and you'll have booty's shaking in no time :D A tune like "One Nation Under a Groove" by P-Funk is a great example of this kind of rhythmic balance.

[@zakbarbezat]

my favorite Ben Levin video ever

[@duskoparipovic7110]

Danceable shredding is more common than you would think. The whole folk music of Balkans and middle east is almost entirely based on super fast, kind of shredding, licks.

[@SANDMAN_66]

some early hardcore/gabber has some fast melodies that are straight out of classic dance music, Knightvision - Humanoid is a great example of two 16th and one 8th note patterns

[@ToothBruv]

I'd say Will Swan is one of the most impressive "dance-shredder" I've heard. For anyone interested, check out what he does with Royal Coda, Dance Gavin Dance and Sianvra. Insanely danceable and pretty complexe. Amazing video.

[@BuckarooBeatdown]

The Chocolate Jackalope riff sped up

[@kimseniorb]

A sun saluting burning dgew is something I wouldn’t ever expect in my feed

[@AllenIverson444]

If you watch any educative content for drummers, you'll notice every one talks about dynamics and how important they are. Being able to play at different audible levels is actually what allows drummers to "shred" and sound groovy at the same time. Once you achieve that, you don't need to care about making the 2 and 4 more noticeable as the other notes. You can accent whatever note you choose to. This is what funk guitar players do I believe, accentuating some notes, muting others. Their sound range is deep, and that makes it sooo smooth and groovy to listen to. That's my opinion :)

[@lamkin9188]

I hope this gets more views, it could honestly start an awesome new musical movement.

[@SuperGroat]

Can't wait for dance-shred to hit the mainstream ! I'm gonna try to think about it in my playing but it's not like i'm good at shredding to begin with lol

[@andriinikitin6139]

Foals actually have some really great danceable guitars in their debut album, Antidotes

[@RathCampbell]

This is AMAZING! Very cool man!

[@JackMorris916]

Cool stuff! Kind of giving me a dance Gavin dance vibe

[@Kabz8]

Mannn I used to follow you back in the JP forum days. Glad I found you again🤙🏽

[@juanpanchoec]

Hi Ben. If you like the idea of "danceable shred" listen to Persiana Americana by Soda Stereo to get a good taste of it!

[@billpierce]

Great stuff, Super entertaining!

The Tumbao/Tresillo/Dembow/3+3+2 will always bring me Dance mood but the 3 gainst 4 does a great job too (Also the groovy 16th excersices). I think you are on the right danceable path 👌🏼👏🏼

[@Mattskito529]

Please make more videos on this concept! Well done sir! I was trying to articulate this exact point and didn’t do nearly as good of a job as you

[@iainmurphy9101]

Reminds me of Dance Gavin Dance. They really know how to make shred groove

[@ulfdanielsen6009]

Final result sounds suspiciously like Ghanesian and Nigerian High Life guitar playing patterns. All we need now is for Youssou N´Dour to open the ball and we´ve got a West-African traditional three-day rave-dance party going on. Good job.

[@jamiethesubtledeceiver1585]

such a great quest and one i have been on for a while. really enjoyed the video, awesome work!!

[@RobFlaxMusic]

Suuuper important point not touched on here (from a bassist and percussionist who started out as a violinist): melody gains a danceable groove when you pay exquisite attention the the END of each note. The drummer gets this for free, as each note decays the same speed (if at the same volume). But there’s a clear separation between the granular particles, and crisp transients to start the next note. (This is maybe why mallets don’t make people dance). Bassists have to work on this more, as the sustain continues if you don’t stop the note, but the proof is in the pudding here. Guest bassist/shredder is more percussive with each note, partially because the attack of the next note has to be due to alternate fingers. With guitar the pick can not alternate, but the result is a variety of note micro-lengths (to the detriment of the groove, IMO). Horn players, violinists, singers, or any other instrument that the training is focused on a sustained sound have to work against that training to create staccato grooves that feel good. Guitar is somewhere in between, and the tradition of shred a la Holdsworth or Metal is all about sustain. Something to think about. TL;DR IMO sixteenth notes groove harder when they are uniform and staccato and not legato or tenuto. Palm mute that whole thing (with some exceptions for ends of phrases etc.) and danceability might double.

[@RandyBakkelund]

Really unique licks here. Great Job!!!

[@lennyngrado6365]

Oh my god, next Bent Knee album is gonna be massive.

[@Semnyi]

Duuuuude. the second example really had some feel to it. great concept. well done

[@hase.von.b]

best thumbnail ever

[@Akhin]

This is Fripp when trying to come up with "Discipline" :D Great video, you are so creative !! Keep up the good work

[@syd502]

Levin that's groovy

[@timschellekens6233]

Riff 2-1 is soooo freaking cool!

[@Chest3rTheSquirrel]

Great stuff! The concept of danceable shred immediately makes me think to Gabriel Marin of Consider the Source.

[@rahzark]

Your videos are super inspiring. I love them because you don't come up with exercises to PLAY FASTER OMG!!!!1 but actually to be more creative.

[@jimmclimn6940]

You got my head bopping

[@ashleyispresent]

ive had this concept in my head but haven't played enough to develop it lol, pretty convinced this is how CHON writes, the secret sauce

[@user-gk1zo8ws9y]

Honestly who even dislikes a Ben Levin video?

[@TerriblethingTube]

great videos man, also just noticed i have the exact same fender tele as you! like wood finish and everything. what a world eh! edit: oops just noticed its a squire, still, basically same.

[@Redlabel0]

I also thought active accent differentiation since rythmically, on percussion or drums you wouldn't be often judged based on pitched but on how you handle rythm patterns. concentration differs from the more often approach used of: ”división melodically over an intermitent Key Signature” rather than ”consistency of a nice accompany rythm, with adequate ”fill” here and there at the ” &a's” or another.

[@redwind3475]

John Browne's (Monuments, Flux Conduct) riff are hella danceable and shreddy to boot. Just listen to the chorus from Monuments - Altas.

[@MrYourfavoritezombie]

I'm not sure if it was considered but the back beat + 3/4 may sound nice because it fits well in a 8/8 platform

[@gbdaeye]

amazing concept, really entertaining video. Your first examples of making shred danceable, to my ears, seems to turn the licks electronic sounding. i have a feeling that john frusciante may possibly take this approach on his return to rhcp.

[@DroneCorpse]

This is amazing. Thanks Ben. 🐐

[@DaveFromVh1]

Interesting fact: Joe the drummer is only 14

[@nataliatc1]

Whaaat

[@angadgianirogers1844]

You spelled 40 wrong.

[@soup2634]

Such a great video! I'd love a multipart vid of this or things like it that show more :)

[@jan-philipschoeman1023]

I did NOT expect to see thank you scientist members in this video

[@kearnsguitars2236]

Opens up a whole new way of thinking, dzięki

[@Draous1]

the one @4:09 ish is quite cool, sounds more metal than the earlier ones.

[@FrancoConticello]

This blew my mind

[@DimiLeventis]

Paul Gilbert has been talking about this for years, and I guess every musician should check it out. Search for him talking about "two types of guitarists", as well as "pulses and rhythm solos/melodies".

[@jorisbressan6412]

You found some sweet spot between: Reich, Scarlatti and Bach ;) Well DONE BEN!!!!

[@paperstr33tdanny]

Ben this was really insightful and inspiring thank you for sharing!

[@RodrigoVelizGTR]

Speaking of dancing with guitar music, there is a style of guitar playing in South America that gives great emphasis on that, they are mainly from Argentina and Peru, here are some examples: La nueva luna - Iluminara kzbin.info/www/bejne/qZKoemaVpLqWoqs La cumbia - Por que te amo kzbin.info/www/bejne/jKCvZ5R-famHsJY Mezgaya - Dejame Amarte kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGG1h2OEmc2qiMU Centeno - Enfermera kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWHXfXZ7rp6Bbrc Nectar - Muchachita kzbin.info/www/bejne/p4mbaJmnfquAbsU

[@MrKosko]

I think you just cracked the code of Dance Gavin Dance

[@jabelsjabels]

Electric Counterpoint vibes, nice!

[@theovergoat]

I think something that can help guitarists with danceable shred is using a variety of rhythms; so changing between semiquavers, quavers, crotchets, triplets, etc Lots of guitarists (especially metal players) get caught up in playing lots of fast semiquavers. There's nothing wrong with this, and in certain contexts it's perfect, but it lacks rhythmic variety, which makes it less danceable. You don't want to make it too crazy with the variation of course, but a little rhythmic variety can definitely help with groove

[@RodrigoVelizGTR]

Don't forget syncopation, it got common using it for riffs, but I haven't see it on solos yet (At least to the degree that it's used on rythm.

[@theovergoat]

@@RodrigoVelizGTR definitely!

[@miguelfernandezmillan2829]

hey benn, I think theres something not too many people take into acount when shreding with groove which to me is key. silence and different rithm paterns. you could ad one silence in your 16th note run in a groovie spot to ler it breath and ad a lot of groove or you cod ad a triplet or a 32nd or something. I normally think about it like making a grovie riff, but with single notes, really fast, and finally puting it in the upper register of the instrument, which makes it less groovie to me but much more shredie. cheers and absolutely amazing vid

[@yboy898]

You look and talk like super nerdy yet amazing on the guitar! #amazingguitarnerd

[@phillholbrook9515]

Your second example reminds me SO MUCH of Minus the Bear

[@srogers500]

Dig the concept. Subscribed!