Daniel Smith Color Showdown S2E3: Pyrrole Red vs. Permanent Red

[@dynomax101]

F3RK70 is a more permanent form of PR 170; more lightfast. Pyrrol red is more permanent, as you know, and, IMO, is a very beautiful color.

[@OtoKano]

That's great to know, thank you dynomax! Do you mind if I pin your comment so others can find it easily?

[@dynomax101]

Dr. Oto Kano Yes...and thank you!

[@OtoKano]

Thank you :)

[@juliavalkyrie]

As an obsessive researcher before purchasing anything, your channel has been so incredibly useful. I've swatched out the dot card and done all the research on handprint and Jane Blundell's blog, but still have been waffling between some colors. Seeing how these pigments behave in mixes and washes and on different papers - invaluable. Thank you so much for all this hard work!

[@InLiquidColor]

I'm all about that Pyrrol Red! :) I prefer having the slightly warmer red on my palette since I already have a cooler red on my palette as well, and prefer the wider range in color. I haven't used PR170 much myself though, so thank you for the direct comparison!

[@OtoKano]

You are so welcome :D Yeah with these two, you definitely don't need both. I do love love love Pyrrol Red too!

[@zibbyzoo4379]

I know Dick Blick does ship internationally and Daniel Smith is MUCH more affordable here in the US. If I want Schmincke or White Nights or Old Holland, I buy from Jackson's as it is more affordable and their shipping was only $3.18 for a $90 order! That's quite a deal, in my estimation. In using both these colors, I definitely prefer the washes I get with Pyrrol Red for the same reasons you stated here. Love this series!

[@aislinngraves4291]

Thank you so very much for these color showdowns! I am building my studio ( and travel ) palettes and I am finding these an excellent help in choosing where to invest my money! I would love to see some more of these comparisons, maybe with some of the less well-known colors.

[@jengoodwyn2715]

I love your colour series. It really helps me understand pigments and colours better.

[@marionbecker4698]

Thank you for your thorough analysis and comparison. It has been invaluable! I do a lot of florals and teach a class, the pyrrole red has been the perfect warm red. I would stay with it even with the price difference as it's pigment strength makes up for the price difference in my opinion. I find it super in mixes as well and to demonstrate cool and warm colors it makes the better choice.

[@MontuckyGirl75]

I need to get this color! Look at all of the beautiful colors that you could mix to make the grand array of florals from darks to light colored ones!

[@jenniefrench1338]

My favorite is pyrrol scarlet red and I just cool it with a bit of alizarin crimson. But I used to have pyrrol red until I got my hands on the scarlet red and I am not going back. Usually one uses either a warm or cool one I have hardly ever used a neutral red and although I appreciate your work I would not be getting one. Pyrrol scarlet is awesome and is the real color of poppies and more useful. Also allows me to rid the cadmium scarlet from palette. Take care

[@gwensimmons_gigi1629]

Definitely Pyrrole Red, which just grabbed my attention in the salt effect and vibrancy, but the mixed colors were comparable. Tfs!😘👍🏾

[@debraebeling5857]

Very thorough system of comparing! Thank you!

[@lucilleeidse9407]

Does anyone have a suggestion for a true deep red? I have pinky reds and orange reds but nothing that I see as really red- would appreciate hearing if anyone has a red they love

[@berika2018]

lucille eidse i found pyroll to be the reddest red :)

[@BB-nz5sk]

Perylene red?

[@DustyMusician]

Cadmium red-deep

[@dianachase63]

Windsor red deep. It is a rich, pure red.

[@lucilleeidse9407]

@@dianachase63 next time I have a chance I will take a look, thank you to all who gave a suggestion.

[@KatieReadsKoziesAndMore]

Permanent red. I like the slightly cooler color.

[@jenniashbart8233]

I prefer the hue of the pyroll red, but I prefer warmer reds in general. I haven't used either, but the Pyroll appeals to me more visually

[@merebrillante]

Pyrrol Red comes in the Daniel Smith Essentials split primary collection, which might be a more cost-effective way to acquire it.

[@OtoKano]

Oh that's great to know, thank you for the heads up Kimberly :)

[@Foghorn-tr1je]

I know this is a year late but the essentials set comes with pyrrol scarlet not pyrrol red. It is a more orange red.

[@dannychen1064]

@@Foghorn-tr1je no there is a 3 primary color set that includes Pyrrol Red and Hansa yellow medium and french ultra, not the essential set

[@Foghorn-tr1je]

@@dannychen1064 However Kimberly is talking about the essentials set not a triad set. That was what I was responding to.

[@March22012]

This is a fabulous series. Thanks for doing it.

[@lindyashford7744]

I have the pyrrole red as Vermilion from Renesans, it is beautiful. It has the orange edge that I see in your tests. I don't like red normally, but love this colour. I had no idea it was so pricy in other brands. I don't like cad reds so this was a great comparison, and very helpful. To me the 254 sings and the naphthol one doesn't.

[@OtoKano]

Lindy Ashford I’m really going to have to try Renesans, I’ve heard so many good things about them and you’re winning me over 👍

[@atalantamountain]

I bought a Renesans Vermilion half pan when I was in Venice. I love that color. I love Venice too. We don't have Renesans colors here in Finland. Maybe I'll try Pyrrol Red in tube, it's easier to share in different palettes. Yes, I am a travel palette nerd. Don't ask how many I have, there's always room for one with different color combination.

[@everartokelli]

I have DS Pyrrol Red and love it's slightly warm tone, but don't use it a lot will probably consider switching to Perm Red when I need to replace it. The salt made a beautiful pattern, so might incorporate it into my Christmas cards this year! FYI, here in the US the Series 1 Permanent Red 15ml is $10.35 and Series 3 Pyrrol Red 15ml is $13.84 at Dick Blick, so quite a difference. Thanks for continuing this series!!

[@OtoKano]

everart okelli gosh this prices makes me cry! So glad you liked the salt effects, can’t wait to see how your Christmas card will turn out.

[@karenmorris11]

I love them both, and use them. This was helpful.

[@erins.5420]

The perm red salt looks like a distant flock of white birds!!! Food for thought.

[@OtoKano]

that's such a nice visual :D

[@barbcollins6515]

Well this was a fun find around midnight tonight! I have Perylene Red and i wonder how ut compares to these colors. Also, I'm wondering how to get those swatches boxes on my watercolor. Are there stamps that print all those sections on the watercolor paper?

[@jessamclaughlin1343]

Wow, this is super helpful! So glad I found your channel. Thank you :)

[@kathrynt98011]

Goodness, those prices. ! I use Daniel Smith paints for a lot of reasons, but one of them is that I live in Seattle, and I buy the paints at the Daniel Smith store where they are, needless to say, MUCH cheaper than you can get them in the UK … I pay about $11US for a series 1 tube (15mL) and about $14 for a series 3. That’s about £8.30 for the series 1 and about £10.60 for the series 3 at today’s exchange rate! I have to say, I’d be much more circumspect about my choices if I lived somewhere else! HOWEVER, there is one other difference between the two: if you live somewhere where to can get the 5mL tubes, the Pyrrol Red is available that way, and the Permanent Red isn’t. So it’s a smaller quantity, but it would be less money to lay out overall. I guess what this means overall is that Oto, you just need to come to Seattle sometime. Come in the winter, a Seattle winter is just exactly like an Edinburgh spring - 5 degrees and drizzly - and we’ll see if we can’t arrange a factory tour for you!

[@OtoKano]

I 100% agree with you!! Trust me, if and when I get myself back in Seattle, I ma soooo going to stock up. I will be sure to call on you when the time come :D

[@everartokelli]

Pyrrol Red also comes in the stick format for $8.74 which is a great savings and the "thicker" paints are great in stick format. Please invite me on that Oto at Daniel Smith cruise!! I think DS should host an Oto Kano workshop on the joys of gauzing with DS.

[@OtoKano]

everart okelli omg that would be amazing!!! (Lets ignore that I get sea sick really badly), it would be so much fun!

[@everartokelli]

Fortunately the store & factory are on dry land :) A suggestion that you tag DS on IG about this series to get on their radar, IG seems to be the main social media they use.

[@Foghorn-tr1je]

Same here. Lucky to live in the town they make this paint. However if you come to Seattle come in the Summer when it is hard to beat.

[@ianjackson5834]

Pyrrol red is a great colour but the price difference swings it in favor of the perm. red for me and as it is slightly blue it will be a good colour to have with cad orange red, tfs

[@chantelmcskimming6633]

Thank you! VERY careful analysis! 😊

[@lucilleeidse9407]

I prefer the hue of the permanent red but the purple red has a much softer effect in the blending- I think I will go with the permanent red.

[@Pattymelt415]

Hi. I am wondering about sennelier bright red. It's really beautiful. But I don't see a pigment color. On my tube it says n.r. What does this mean? Thanks!

[@EveBolt]

LOL the Star Wars text!! XD These are truly similar! I don't think I have the permanent red in my collection, but I don't really think I need it if I have Pyrrole Red :)

[@OtoKano]

Maybe we'll do an updated paint swap soon :D

[@erins.5420]

I’m so mad! YT turned my 🛎 off! I haven’t gotten notifications for 3 weeks! I was curious to what was going on so I searched your channel and it looks like I have some catching up to do!!!

[@OtoKano]

Aw thank you so much for finding me again Erin! Have you been receiving my messages on Patreon ok?

[@Donna_G]

Interesting comparison. I don't have either. When I got my Essential 7 set from Daniel Smith, it had Pyrrol Orange in it as the warm red. On the palette, it does look more orange than it does red; but, on paper it looks like a nice red. Next to Quinacridone Rose on paper, it is definitely more of a warm red. Since I tend to like cool colors, I haven't used a lot of the Pyrrol Orange. I have Quinacridone Rose and Quinacridone Red. I can't tell any difference between them. If I wanted to replace Pyrrol Orange with a different paint, I'm still not sure what I'd replace it with. These two colors that you compared are so similar that it is hard to tell. I'd probably go with the less expensive option.

[@OtoKano]

Donna G I agree with you about the Quin Red and quin rose. All the teddy pink Quine (coral, pink, red, rose) are so so so similar. I really have to have them next to each other to know which is which. Pyrrol orange is a hard one to replace as it’s quite unique.

[@dynomax101]

Donna G Try perinone orange...po 43... to replace pyrrol orange...po 73. Similar mass tones and tints.

[@artiskalai1970]

Thank you for the clear and thorough comparison. Really helpful. A question: you mentioned difference in lightfastness - is that not significant enough to be considered in the overall comparison? Do you have information (or a guess) on how many years each one would last under "normal" conditions of display on a wall?

[@OtoKano]

If you are at all concerned about lightfasteness, and you are intending on displaying it on a wall for a long time, then I would suggest to stick to colors that are considered excellent in lightfastness, for piece of mind.

[@artiskalai1970]

Thank you for the response. Yes, I suppose better to go for the best lightfastness, especially if one is putting a lot of time into a piece or is planning to sell. Funny that a color with the word "permanent" in it is the less lightfast and hence less permanent one, isn't it? So Pyroll red it is!

[@sarahmitchell9247]

Dr. Too- could you please do a series focusing on salt reactive colors that are good mixers please. I can go through your episodes separately and get the information but would love to see just separated out. Thanks for considering my thought. Cheers

[@sarahmitchell9247]

I actually typed Dr. Oto…what happened?

[@MsHenifer]

Is it Warm or Cold? Do you cover that information? Thank you.

[@artycraftyalchemy]

I prefer the pyrrol red lol. I must have expensive taste...

[@mischabe3]

I can’t thank you enough for your meticulous and comprehensive comparisons of two similar colours. I look forward to your next video. Thank you for sharing your knowledge❣️Did you make these test sheets yourself?

[@OtoKano]

Thank you Sachie, and yes I did make the sheets myself :)

[@kurokokoro26]

DickBlick has Daniel Smith paints at pretty good priced so Pyrrole Red isn't too painful to buy there but I don't know if they do international shipping and if they do it might not be worth it lol. I know international shipping can hit the wallet hard.

[@OtoKano]

yeah International shipping cost is the problem :( So I try to get DS watercolors when they go on sale! Thank you for the tip, I'll certainly look into it.

[@dynomax101]

Dr. Oto Kano Unfortunately, they don't ship outside of North America :

[@jengoodwyn2715]

Honestly, they are so close that if I were to have them.on my palette, I'd go for the least expensive one.

[@Via_Von]

This is brilliant - thank you!! 😍

[@OtoKano]

Via Von you are so welcome, thank you very much for watching!

[@keepyourshoesathedoor]

Pyrrol Red

[@Dan.B.Artist]

Wow there are some really similar looking colours out there. It's odd how they make both.

[@OtoKano]

Yeah the people who suggested comparisons have come through amazingly with incredibly similar colors. Very grateful for their input.

[@etienne7774]

Genuine vermillion please!

[@joellyshooshoo]

lmaoo the star thing