Cessationism 9 (The Pagan Origins) Daniel Kolenda: Off The Record

In Episode 9 of the "Heresy of Cessationism" series, Daniel delves into the history behind cessationism, drawing inspiration from John Wesley's response to Conyers Middleton. The episode challenges the cessationist stance, revealing its potential to undermine fundamental Christian beliefs. It emphasizes the dangers of a rigid, Procrustean interpretation of scripture and urges listeners to reevaluate their views on the supernatural within Christianity.
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To view the other parts of this series about "The Heresy of Cessationism" visit:
Cessationism 1 (The Scriptures)
• Cessationism 2 (A Casc...
Cessationism 2 (A Cascade of Lies)
• Cessationism 2 (A Casc...
Cessationism 3 (Has Prophecy Ceased?)
• Cessationism 3 (Has Pr...
Cessationism 4 (Have Tongues Ceased?)
• Cessationism 4 (Have T...
Cessationism 5 (Gifts of Healings)
• Cessationism 5 (Gifts ...
Cessationism 6 (Evidence of Modern Miracles)
• Cessationism 6 (Eviden...
The Heresy of Cessationism 7 (Miracle Workers)
• Cessationism 7 (Miracl...
Cessationism 8 (More Calvinist Than Calvin)
• Cessationism 8 (More C...
Cessationism 9 (The Pagan Origins)
• Cessationism 9 (The Pa...
Cessationism 10 (The Godfather of Cessationism)
• Cessationism 10 (The G...
Cessationism 11 (Miracles in the Middle Ages)
• Cessationism 11 (Mirac...
Cessationism 12 (Awakening & Revival)
• Cessationism 12 (Awake...
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#danielkolenda #cessationist #offtherecord
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[@kennethcooley3445]

I've supported Christ for all nations throughout the years. The Holy Spirit has never been diminished in His work. The gifts never ended. NEVER!

[@elijahmcgrath5918]

Hey Daniel! I want to share a testimony with you. A few months ago you were speaking at Virginia Beach Alive. A friend of mine who works for CFAN said he could sneak me into your meet and greet so I decided to make the drive down to the event. Sadly because your flight got delayed, I wasn't able to actually meet you, but I figured there had to be a reason the Holy Spirit brought me to that event. During the healing altar call later that night I noticed a woman go up for healing who did not get healed and looked sad. I felt like the Holy Spirit told me he wanted to heal her and press in, so I went up to her and asked if I could pray for her. It took 45 minutes total of prayer, but around every 10 minutes a new symptom went away. I had only seen my first healing just a week prior to this. THANK YOU for teaching about the continuation of the gifts. It's has blessed me immensely

[@jsmalayama]

Praise God! Thank you for sharing that!

[@chrisbashline2318]

Wow. Yes, we are the body of Christ. Every one of us ministers, healers and anointed for purpose. The days of the great anointed preachers receiving the glory bc the body doesn’t believe it can do what Jesus did are over.

[@oliverubay4497]

Hallelujah!

[@NDCCMTX]

Wow!!! What an amazing testimony!!!!! God bless you for hearing, answering, _and_ accepting the call!!! Most people would have given up after 5 minutes, but you pressed on!! Thank you for sharing that detail. That is literally life and death.

[@RealSnail3D]

God be praised!

[@danielscountry9884]

Daniel tapping into his D&D dungeon master role, leading us through a medieval adventure. haha

[@Ruth-Thal]

I am so enjoying this series. I realized that I have been listening to Cessationists(some of them in that conference) I stopped listening and reading my bible more. It causes double mindedness. I believe God is the same Yesterday, Today and forever. Thank you Daniel.

[@GoodGospel_]

So we should just continue animal sacrifices too then, right? Nope. Animal sacrifices had their place in redemptive history and so do signs and wonders and miraculous sign gifts of the holy spirit.

[@jtika1978]

@@GoodGospel_🙄 you’re comparing pre-Jesus animal sacrifice with the GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Cessationists have one thing they very much excel at: logical fallacies.

[@worm_and_no_man]

​@@GoodGospel_bro it is sad to believe that the gifts of God were just removed in this age. What type of faith is it where people believe in a God that doesn't do the impossible?

[@fidelamoah9115]

@@GoodGospel_ please quote a bible verse that says miraculous sign gifts ceased in the apostolic age.

[@Travis_Rosenthal]

@@fidelamoah9115interestingly enough they can’t because there isn’t even a verse that uses the term “apostolic age.”

[@4jesus1981]

This should be taught in every church. This is truly anointed. This is not sensational like most things that people click on lately. This is truly from God.

[@DanielKolenda]

Thank you 🙏

[@ShowCat1]

Fantastic talk! I am looking forward to further episodes. My cousin had a son who was thirty-eight-years old who had the mentality of a 6-year-old due to problems at birth. When talking to him on the phone it sounded like you were talking to a first grader. Everyone called him Little Marty. One day he called me and was crying. I asked what was wrong, and in his sweet, crying voice he told me that he had stepped on something and injured his foot. I told him to put his mother (my cousin) on the phone. She filled me in on what had happened and said that he needed surgery, but they did not have the money. She said his foot was swollen to twice its normal size and was black and blue and that he had been crying for two days. Clearly, he was in great pain. I felt faith and compassion rise in me, so I told my cousin to put him back on the phone. I asked him if he wanted Jesus to heal him and he asked, "will Jesus do that?" I told him to go outside and hobble around while talking to his foot. This really got his attention. He asked, "What do I say to my foot?" I told him to say "foot, by the stripes of Jesus you are healed." He said he would. A half hour later, his mother called and was ecstatic. She said his foot had gone back to its original size and that all bruising was gone! She said, "his foot is as pink as his other one." All of us who took care of him marveled at what God had done. Then the scripture came to me "Why marvel ye at this?" Acts 3:12. We should all be like Littel Marty, a thirty-eight/six-year-old. He went back to his simple world and never even marveled at his own healing, he just simply believed and received. He never hurt again. In his childlike mind he did not doubt that Jesus would heal him, he just obeyed the word. BTW: I told a Calvinist this story. He was quiet for a minute and then said "Well, you know that Satan can appear as an angel of light." In other words, he was saying that Satan had healed Little Marty in order to deceive us into believing that God did it. He also said the "Satan can only do what God sends him to do." I guess that means that God is in the business of decieving Christians. Calvinism is from the pit of hell. I know what I am talking about because I was trapped in Calvinist concrete for 23 years, but Jesus set me free!

[@richardbernard8491]

Oh that we all had such childlike faith! Miracles of healings would abound. God would be magnified. Jesus said “only believe “ It’s His command to us. Be blessed!

[@JimiSurvivor]

Calvinism is like the venom of the Coral Snakes which we have hear. Once you are bitten your your bodily processes slow down and become paralyzed

[@roebbiej]

Insanely riveting story telling, together with revealing information that actually increases my faith. I'm shocked at how good and interesting this podcast was, thabk you David and thank you Holy Spirit for working through him.

[@loisthiessen9134]

wow! A fascinating, enlightening and intellectually stimulating lecture. Just happened upon this and I know you're an evangelist so I was pleasantly surprised and appreciative of how you see cessationism in light of church history going way back and that you're a student of global European church history, not just seeing this topic through recent western, particularly the N. American evangelicalism and charismatic timeline. God bless your ministry and your outreach to christians that want to understand these things and are asking pertinent questions during this chaotic, confusing time in church history

[@debbiebroughton7701]

Thank you so much for your dedication and diligence that you put into these teachings. We are so blessed and honored to be a part of CFAN.

[@designedforvictory]

Thank you so much for doing this series. Keep it up.

[@oliverubay4497]

Only halfway through and can’t thank God enough for this message and teaching. Can’t wait to deep dive more in this series you got going. God bless brother and keep up the good fight! Even with all this complicated theology, the simplicity of the gospel is of crucial importance, that our Savior Jesus of Nazareth saved us from our sin on the cross and having victory over death in His resurrection. ✝️

[@soozin2u]

I’ve just been on a trip to Europe and visited several events, hundreds of years apart, and didn’t even have to put on my jacket to leave the house!

[@wordtojapan]

Not even half way through but this is absolutely fascinating! Will listen to more

[@esthergatuma2790]

Powerful podcast, very well produced, anointed, the very best!

[@soteriology1012]

Good Job Daniel. I never heard any one explain it this way. Thank You.

[@dawnatanasio4871]

Daniel, I’ve been blown away by your episodes in this topic. In my mind I wondered how you could possibly drag out this topic for so many episodes. But with this episode I can now clearly see that there has been a broader historical impact that has wound its way over hundreds and hundreds of years, which I and many others knew little or thing about. You laid the foundations for your arguments, then systematically built upon them one after another in such an intelligent, well articulated, engaging, and challenging way. It also makes me wonder why no one else has taken up this bullhorn. How much of this information were you aware of beforehand, and how much further research did you need to do? You went deep! There’s almost two thousand years of history to pour over! Surely you are not the only continuationist to know this much detail about the subject. Then again, maybe you are because I don’t know, and have not heard, of anyone else going to through this much detail about the subject. Maybe there are books out there but I honestly have not searched. I’m enjoying your videos on the subject far too much. My respect for you has grown even more with this episode. Keep it up! I’ll be sad when these are over.

[@DanielKolenda]

Thank you for the encouragement! Hundreds of hours of reading and research over several years has gone into this. I’m glad it’s helpful to someone 🙏

[@timchristensen764]

What you describe in this episode with Paggio and the Enlightenment are in general processes of 'elitism'. And when you look at it from that lens, then you see that the root of cessationism actually go back to the first process of 'elitism' in the church beginning as early as the third century growing out of the Ascendancy of the Clergy with Ignatius of Antioch. When the Clergy (pastor gifting) took to themselves the power to judge doctrine and denied the power of the Spirit within the general believer to be sufficient to protect the church. This Ascendancy of the Clergy robbed the giftings of Apostle and Prophet and instead built the power and control of the Clergy (Pastor). Some of the efforts of the Clergy in this was well intentioned, trying to address the heresy of the time and protect the flock. But in the end it belied a lack of faith and trust in the power of the Spirit to take care of the Church. Of course, this elitist ascendancy become further corrupted under the politicization of Constance and the further development of the power structures of the church (both east and west). The reformation then established its own power structures and took the next steps to preserve power of the clergy. It is interesting that that same distrust of the Spirit is what is at the heart of MacAurther's rants. It is a 'control thing'. To allow the Spirit to exercise the power that Scripture describes, would reduce the power and control of the office of the Clergy and spread it among the other gifts and the whole congregation of believers.

[@isaacscustoms227]

This is a strawman argument. Cessationists don't claim there's no modern miracles but that people that claim a gift do not control miracles. They (the majority) claim the sign gifts have ceased not miracles. You weaken your argument by not staying your opponents position honestly.

[@sheluvssmokedupeyes1]

Signs and wonders are also under the category of miracles

[@V3ryan]

Funny enough he literally addresses your comment closely at 1:06:09

[@RGee-b5e]

This is part 9 the brother has extensively and meticulously explained all angles of both sides

[@Dvjpr]

Pastor Daniel Please pray for my nephew he is 2 yr old child he is 80 % deaf in both the ears please pray for his healing . Almighty God has done many healing in our family . Please pray for my nephew now . Thank you

[@davidwireback8621]

I would suggest that you pray. If you're a Christian . You can hear from God. Ask him if he wants to heal your nephew. And he says yes and pray for him. You have the same Holy Spirit in you the Daniel or any Christian has. I pray that you hear from God and that you can pray for your nephew and he is healed

[@NielPetersen]

GREAT episode! Thank you!

[@jcol317]

"a state of suspended disbelief". That last sentence deserves those glasses from the thumbnail

[@Nellyvansickle]

Just found your channel 😮 I’ve been binge watching/listening all day!

[@yan24to]

Great story telling.Really liked this video.

[@dysonwitwer6430]

This was in four letters... epic

[@DanielKolenda]

Thank you 🙏

[@whitewolf4096]

Matthew 3:9 New International Version 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

[@PhilipJ72]

Very well done. Thank you sir.

[@mynameis......23]

10:35 21:15 22:28 49:35 john Wesley's reply. 57:15 wrote book in 21 days 46:15 diffrent Spirit?

[@chadmharris7061]

Very fascinating!

[@abc92066]

I've never heard this back story before. Revealing. Is there also a connection between this and atheism, and that which is enshrined in the practice of science?. Do other key thinkers reference this book's discovery? Wesley's response is really apt. Didn't think I'd ever want to find out more about him. I tend to lump a lot of these people together in the too time-consuming to unravel category.

[@richardbernard8491]

In listening to many of our modern day cessationists it also occurred to me how is their questionings are the same as athiests ? They claim to be believers but they air their doubts. Modern day Thomas’s. May God grant them repentance and a love for the truth. Only believe the Bible.

[@abc92066]

@@richardbernard8491 In a similar way, in that there's a linage of people citing predecessors or book itself on the secessionist side, I wondered aloud if this book also influenced key atheist thinkers. I'm not comparing atheists to cessationists. I've found that both groups of of people tend to be sincere (the later whether they like it are not are brothers and sisters in Christ). However, that said, it has hurt when I've shared some of the most precious, miraculous things I've seen / experienced, and they've responded ever so sharply, sometimes even scornfully... "but you're a scientist... how can you..." Sometimes the said atheists and cessationists are family. There's no other option but to get over it, and to love them. It's not an at-arms-length problem for me. The trouble is, sometimes I feel compelled to share. The responses can be hard to deal with on a personal level. It seems easier to talk to non-christians who aren't invested in either of these camps about the goodness of God.

[@wolfgangrumpf9842]

Thank You for your Work Mr Kolenda i use your Impacts in my homeland , cause im surrounded of anticharismatic or sceptic Christians !

[@GoodGospel_]

I’m a cessationist, I completely believe God can and does heal today. He has healed me and He has healed others through my direct prayers. When I hear about miracle stories coming from whacky charismatics or those in the hyper charismatic/NAR movement, my first response is never to say “that never happened”, but my response is never to just openly praise God for performing a miracle which I don’t know if He actually did, especially when I don’t trust the movement where the claim is coming from. So… because I believe God can do miracles whenever He pleases, I usually respond with, “If that’s true, then praise God for that”. So yes, I’m skeptical of certain claims in charismatic movements, as we should all be, even you. It’s foolishness to accept and believe any and every miracle claim without using wisdom and discernment. That being said, i’m a lot less skeptical when cessationists claim healing and miracles, I believe them more easily because they’re not caught up in a false signs and wonders movement as many in the NAR are.

[@thegrigs777]

If you are a cessationist..you dint believe God speakes directly and personally and the gifts are not in operation..this is false

[@incredulouskirk]

@goodgospel you stated the case very well. Thank you. 👍

[@jtika1978]

I I I I me me me me …it’s not about you or what you think or believe. And no one even asked.

[@charishalomvictor]

Jesus commanded His disciples to heal. He never withdrew that commands. Jesus still heals and do miracles He uses His people.

[@innocentkumwenda8139]

With that mindset you can actually limit God's power, but actually I believe people can claim miracles and falsify them, but miracles and power are what make and builds the church and they are very present the more in this present day.

[@AaronNelmuso]

Daniel, do you think that cessationism could be a demonic stronghold?

[@DanielKolenda]

I think that’s very possible

[@johnmoore3521]

Why wouldn't Satan seek to remove the power of God from the minds of His children? Who better to be deceived than a person who doesn't believe in the power of God?

[@4jesus1981]

Honestly after this video... I believe that ANY cessationist video or preaching is WAY MORE dangerous than any atheist content. Far more dangerous.

[@kristapsvarna]

Thank you Daniel. Very interesting deep dive in history. I honestly never understood cessasionism. If miracles dont happen, God is dormant, and i am misserable sinner, where’s the difference between christianity and islam and all other religions? I love that real christianity is so unique, like no other belief. We dont have only God, but Friend, Father, Lover of our souls. We have someone who isnt distant but he is with us❤

[@3-5-9-61]

First, I appreciate you do not have ads that break concentration. I also enjoy the provoking of more conversations with God. --- Does the Bible say God changes? Before all things are made new, do we need God and His gifts and power to help us fulfill his will? Respectful question for Johnny Mac: Does the Bible say our Holy Spirit utters and groans in us and through us, and God is the master of the foolish, meaningless jibber-jabber? What did Paul say? How many languages can God speak? What is the actual purpose of praying in the Spirit? What different types are there? What purposes do they have? Why did Paul ask us to pray in the Spirit as much as he did? What tree did God tell Adam and Eve not to eat from? Is believing, "Knowledge is Power," without God's presence dangerous? Is self-righteousness and judging others for wanting to go deeper with God's presence Godliness? Does God speak of gifts he gives us to equip us and empower us? Why, while sin still prevails in this age, would God stop giving his gifts to help us? Yes, there will of course be odd actions by carnal human beings. No doubt whatsoever carnality will be ready and willing to pervert God's will. We need people like you who are willing to speak up, but do we then shun God's supernatural presence? How about we agree we desperately need God's presence and gifts, to become more and more like Jesus? --- Jesus holds the keys to, "the Pit." Where do we demand demons go so they are taken into captivity? Under Jesus feet. Under our feet because God lives in us, right? What was the cliff, and what was the water picturing when Jesus sent the demons into the pigs? Where were the demons begging not to go? Did Jesus teach us something to do now so demons can no longer have power in this present age? What if we are to be taking out one demon, or one legion, one after another? Who gets cornered and chained last in the Bible? Question: I'm not so excited about the part where Satan is released again. Oh my lands, really?! Again?! Am I missing something?

[@preciousmcdaniels3725]

Good day God's servants, shalom. Can anyone please recommend non Calvinist continuation Charismatic Theological colleges or universities? Thanks

[@greentree14]

Yay for John Wesley!!!

[@williamblickenstaff7686]

Thankyou!

[@johnpatmos1722]

How can Jefferson have been both Epicurean and Deist? Also, a nitpicky point, Old English is another language.

[@dianebergsma7898]

Amen

[@dianebergsma7898]

Really enjoyed the music and story in the beginning!

[@TrueM-qc7kd]

Do one on pagan origins of ecstatic gibberish speaking

[@sheluvssmokedupeyes1]

Do you want on pagan origins of not believe in the Bible?

[@johnmoore3521]

Could the origins of Cessionest have been influenced by th Sadducees?

[@TrueM-qc7kd]

Charismatic confusion and all the nonsense associated with it is heretical and blasphemous.

[@ThembaMaselane]

Sorry sir you need to go research of why Jefferson did what he did not denying his not being a devout Christian and please check out some of his writings on the centrality of Biblical christianity.

[@sheluvssmokedupeyes1]

Do you know a lot of the founding fathers, and the heads of the Baptist church association is churches were masons, right? No wonder they don’t want speaking in tongues in their church.

[@AlexRodriguez-oq1mn]

I have logos software too, I love it.

[@coolbreeze6198]

There's evidence we've been lied to about the cosmos... ???

[@GTX1123]

Well researched, excellent presentation. Very impressive. I agree with almost all of it but I vehemently disagree with your characterization of Thomas Jefferson. Sure, there were two seasons in his life inparticular where his faith was deeply shaken to the core and he questioned many things, including the very existence of God; once when his wife died after a terrible illness and then a period near the end of his life. But throughout most of this life, Jefferson was an orthodox Christian. It's important to point this out because there's a lot of revisionist history touted by the Left that the founders were all deists who rejected orthodox Christianity. It's NONSENSE. All one has to do is read their writings. Were they influenced to some degree by ancient pagan philosophers? Sure but not to the point of heresy. I would encourage you to be more careful when dealing with that issue in particular. The devil is in the details of how the Left very cleverly twists these things by cutting and pasting quotes and writings in such a way that is downright DEMONIC. David Barton has done an amazing amount of research in this area and has been under withering attack from the Left for over ten yrs for taking them on and pointing out their despicable dishonest. I would encourage you to carefully consider his work in this area.

[@chadmharris7061]

Exactly!

[@paul.awaraji]

Daniel completely destroyed cessationism with this podcast series 🥲. It will likely take cessationists a few decades to regain their footing after this.

[@John-Christchurch-NZ]

So sad that at ths point the video has 3200 veiws and only 169 likes Does this show how much Cessationism has infiltrated the Church on KZbin

[@tboned1]

Are you related to the upper peninsula Kolendas?

[@DanielKolenda]

Most likely ☺️

[@tboned1]

@@DanielKolenda ...fron Iron River Michigan

[@pristinepersians]

😂😂😂 This is hilarious.