Danny Tackles Andrews Jones: The Source Point 8! Spoiler Alert (It's Really Good)

[@davep2945]

A long time ago when this channel starting getting traction Danny was routinely beating on Klipsch products for the poor crossover parts used. His audience loved to bash Klipsch along with him even though they had obviously never looked at the crossovers in their own speakers. At that time I told people they needed to quit pretending the parts in their favorite speakers were any better even if they paid double or triple the price. Over the years this has been shown to be true over and over not only on this channel but several others. Top quality parts cost money and people already complain about a speaker that costs even $1000 much less 3 to 5 thousand bucks. Getting the crossover design right is far more important than the parts themselves. Combine that with good drivers and solid cabinet construction and you've got a speaker the majority are happy with. At that point crossover parts quality would be little more than the cherry on top of a great speaker. The problem is by the time you get to the point that upgrading crossover parts starts to make the difference you've already got a pricey speaker on your hands. And unless you're a company like Wilson or Focal who can find buyers for their insanely priced speakers then getting enough people to pay for that last fraction of quality they likely don't know or care about is not a viable business option. You give folks as good as you can give them for a profitable but attainable price point and sell in volume. But as I've said to many an arrogant audionerd, if you think you can do better than these manufacturers you love to hate then, by all means, show us what you got. Give us the cabinets, drivers, crossovers and wiring you think should be used for the price points you always pretend manufacturers should be selling their products for. I would say I'll wait but I know they can't do it because I know what the cost of doing business actually happens to be.

[@mikeinmontana8875]

Still using our 1996 Klipsch Chorus II speakers ( last year produced) that we purchased in 1998. Not once have we decided to try a different model or 'upgrade' crossovers etc... 'cheezy' (Dan there calls whatever he sells fixes cheeze I guess) parts seem to be working fine for us. Folks want to spend more on speaker 'upgrades' etc.. go for it. All good. But Dan, you truly do come across like a snot nosed, smug car dealer. Ran across one of your vids a long time ago while you were actually laughing at the companies speakers to sell your own parts. Lighten up. Make some speakers of your own and show everyone what for.....or send your own crossovers to companies to install in their own speakers.....and then they too will obviously raise the price point. And obviously my hearing is the shits if I don't purchase from ya! Pretty much automatic isn't it? 👌 All the best to you and yours~

[@stephenyoud6125]

Excellent work by Andrew Jones again and a great improvement by Danny. Is that 3 videos this wee? What a great week it's been.

[@ThinkingBetter]

Just talked to Andrew Jones a couple of hours ago here in Costs Mesa. Small world. I like his design views.

[@rhalfik]

It's not really settled if all the changes he did are an improvement. The reduction of the midrange may be a good decision, but if the high impedance was from a series notch then Danny may have increased distortion by removing it. Notice that Danny never proves that he does proper blind tests of his modifications. You only trust him because he's a youtuber.

[@stephenyoud6125]

@@rhalfik I trust him because of his experience not because he’s a KZbinr that’s no qualification at all

[@mcgovernjimmy]

@@rhalfik I've been in his home to hear his NX-Treme speakers and he's done new crossovers for 2 different speakers I own, one of which I was present when he did the work, and the final tweak was a resistor value when listening after. What's your experience with his work, speakers, and watching him design a crossover in person? What he can do to a speaker is transformative, and they are the best speakers I've ever heard.

[@mikevalentinas6766]

People whining about the price 1) don’t need to buy them and 2) don’t realize that you aren’t paying for a pile of parts. You are paying for the engineering, design and experience of the designer. Mofi also needs to make a profit and factor in returns, unsold stock, etc. Their manufacturer likely has a (large) minumum order. It is a business, not a charity. Overall it seems to be a well-designed speaker with a somewhat novel baffled design that sounds good. The upgraded parts will be of interest to some but others will be happy with the way they sound. Even at this price point it will be difficult to find a commercially available loudspeaker with absolutely no compromises. But people like to whine, especially arm chair audiphiles who have never even heard the speakers in person.

[@gerryb5459]

Agreed. Danny would have Vincent Van Gogh rummaging through the shops in Paris looking for the “best” oil paints instead of being outside actually painting.

[@davidnewell3232]

@@gerryb5459 What are on Earth brings you here then?

[@Bradimus1]

Erin's audio corner has spin-o-rama data for the 8 and the 10 and he subjectively preferred the 8. Less high frequency lift, though a bit less low end extension. The latter addressed by the towers coming out. I haven't heard but would likely leave be this line of speakers.

[@stevengagnon4777]

Pretty much my foregone conclusion the the eight is going to perform better than the ten. Too much compromise crossing over to the tweeters. I believe that the eight will a sub( a couple of subs) will just sound better in the long run

[@nathanevans6277]

​@@stevengagnon4777I couldn't agree more. The only addition I'd make would be to plug the ports. The point source's bass driver would basically become a midrange driver. A port is designed to extend low frequency output but it does so at the expense of bass quality. When using a sub extension of the main speakers is not important. I'd also stick a suitably valued capacitor between the pre and power amps to roll the bottom off a little more. This cleans up the bass even further.

[@stevengagnon4777]

@@nathanevans6277 I believe I've stuffed all of the ports on all my speakers since I've been doing that for decades. Definitely restrict the power on the bottom end Sotheby's amplifier can have alot more head room above the sub / bass cross over. I have done that in the past too. It really makes a difference at higher volume levels. You don't have that mid bass driver struggling with poor response at the bottom end either. Currently my speakers don't see much more than one watt so I haven't done that with them yet...it's still a work in progress from the ashes of my former life.

[@brandondempsey6833]

I bought these Source Point 8s and my Polk Audio lsim 703 still sound much better to me. So I sent the source points back, now just waiting on TeeJay to finish the Polk xover upgrade. If he recommends it I will 100 percent buy the upgrade. I just know TeeJay will help me with the process. I just haven't done much dyi upgrades. Love what you do Danny Richie

[@jimdavis5230]

Regarding steel parts in the signal path I recently inspected several power amplifiers with a magnet to see what components used steel. I found all the capacitors, resistors and transistors had tinned steel leads. The TO3 power output transistors not only had steel leads but also steel cases. I also inspected a valve power amplifier and found similar results. All the valve pins were steel and the output went through a transformer with a laminated iron core. Are you confused? I certainly am.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Sounds like a lot of areas for improvement.

[@kjellrogerjgensen60]

Some brands are replacing steel part, among them som crasy exp. Danish speakers....

[@hwr9675]

I prefer paper in oil amps, very smooth round next level sound.

[@mattholland315]

The steel claims are snake oil. Really nothing to worry about. It was proven on ASR. Can’t find the link sorry.

[@HiFiWright]

Steel cases on t03 are completely irrelevant and are electrically isolated from the signal. You are correct on the leads, inevitable on transistors, but as Danny said, there's definitely room for improvement then in the caps resistors etc. also, keep in mind, steel parts in a speaker matter more because you're talking about low impedance signal transfer vs high impedance like what you have in an amplifier aka current is affected because it's much greater through the speaker so apples to oranges on that point. One complaint I have with amplifiers is how many blindly choose cheap parts because they often use so many. Vishay, KOA Speer resistors etc. and even most caps can be ordered with copper leads (power supply electrolytics etc do NOT matter because that is 60hz mains we are talking about. The answer for amplifiers IMO is to get either well built tube since they generally care more about parts quality or do what I do which is make (or buy) solid state that uses short signal paths and 2 or 3 gain stages tops to preserve detail and coherence. You had an ok point, but you were pointing the finger (mostly) in the wrong direction. I don't always agree with Danny and do think he puts a bit much emphasis on the steel nuts, but he's technically correct regardless about anyone's emotional reaction to it, and even when i disagree with him I won't say he is wrong he just has a different opinion or puts more or less emphasis on something with level of importance than I would.

[@philipeli1192]

This speaker is not needing any more money thrown at it for the very small difference.I have had many Pioneer floorstanding towers from Andrews designs.Weirdly the sf 52 measure 11.0 ohms across its terminals. It had 3 5.25s one a mid the other two 250hz and down,they sold millions of these.Great job here Danny.

[@clarencehoover6748]

Very educational. Thank you, Danny.

[@gdwlaw5549]

Wouldn’t it wonderful to both of them In the same room!

[@phantomplastics6582]

I used his Dynaudio Special 40 kits and wow, what a revelation. Bough the Magnepan 1.7 kit too but unable to install it so far.

[@timothywild9980]

I couldn't click on this video fast enough!

[@annebokma4637]

I am not watching most of this channels content. But this one was indeed decided in a second 😂

[@spacejaime]

Amazing transformation on an already good design. Danny to the rescue!

[@ChicagoRob2]

The impedance mod is a thing of beauty.

[@nathanevans6277]

Another great upgrade video from Danny. It looks like Andrew Jones did a great job as usual. If he had built the crossover to the standard of the GR Research upgrade it would have doubled the price of the speaker. This makes Danny's upgrade a steal. If I owned these I would definitely plug the ports and stick a suitably valued capacitor between the pre and power amps to roll off the bottom end. I'd then hand bass duties over to a pair of decent subs. Ports are always a trade off between bass extensions and bass articulation. Plugging the ports would clean up the mid-bass no end. Let the subs do the heavy lifting.

[@kjellrogerjgensen60]

Not shure if plugging the ports would be a good idea, a closed box might increase the cone travel. The advantage of port is that the air in it also act as a "anti resonator" and keeps the cone travel down, same with passive radiator. Yes the extra bass level do come from the air, (or a passive r.) but the main sp.element will be a better "horn" for the tweeter with less cone travel. A crossover between pre out, and main in, or in the separate subbs are the most important point of course. But you will get there😊

[@nathanevans6277]

@@kjellrogerjgensen60 All very true. The addition of a capacitor between the pre and power amps will add an extra 6dB per octave roll off. This will limit cone movement below where the speaker is naturally rolling off.

[@kjellrogerjgensen60]

​​​​@@nathanevans6277My sub with built in amp. have variable low and hipas crossovers so i can continue to main in on the amp for the sidesystems. I think that is the normal solution in active subs, and also sub amps you can get to for DIY.

[@simplereef4854]

I feel sorry for you if you think plugging one port will improve anything. In fact, it will do the opposite of what you think. That double ports is a very careful and deliberate design, altering it will only make it worse.

[@nathanevans6277]

@@simplereef4854 I feel sorry for you that you know so little about speaker design if that is what you really think. I was suggesting plugging all ports, not just one if there are multiple ports. Plugging a single in a twin port design will increase the tuning frequency and would likely induce chuffing. So I agree, not likely to be good. I was not suggesting plugging the ports in isolation. I was suggesting to only do so when a subwoofer is added to the system. Plugging all ports will change the speaker from being ported to being an acoustic suspension. For the same driver in the same size cabinet an acoustic suspension design will have a lower Q than when ported. This is why ported speakers are generally larger with the same driver. Lowering the Q will result in a cleaner tighter bottom end but with less weight. As I was suggesting handing bass duties over to a subwoofer this is not an issue. Plugging the ports and sticking a suitably valued capacitor between the pre and power amps will result in a cleaner more resolving midbass and midrange.

[@paulgyro]

I have to say anyone can pay a bunch of money for expensive components. The true talent comes from the design making the most of the components they do have.

[@dannyrichie9743]

That's true. In this case though, just a little more could have been spent on better components and these could have been brought up a few notches pretty easily.

[@jianboo]

I totally agree!!! You really hit it by pointing out money can pay expensive components, but I've yet to see Danny's offerings that are worth considering at this value proposition (that are made complete and are plug and play).

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@jianboo Are you kidding me? These are easily surpassed by just about everything we offer, especially models in our X-Series and up (not even close).

[@jianboo]

@dannyrichie9743 Thanks, I don't doubt that you believe in your own creation, but selling these component upgrades in your youtube videos says otherwise.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@jianboo Ha, we do these upgrades as a service to help those that purchased speakers that don't sound as good as they felt they should have. Typically because they are loaded with garbage on the inside. Try checking out Ron's (from New record Day) review of the Mofi 10 and have a listen to the sound clips. Then compare those sound clips with the same sound clips that he made from any of our speakers. Even in the sound clips of a compressed KZbin file the superiority of our designs easily can be heard.

[@BostonMike68]

It must sound so much better with the upgrade parts on the crossover, it's to bad people have to pay so much money and still get a sub par product. I watched an interview with Andrew Jones and he said he had to limit the x max on the woofer because it was messing with the tweeter response to much. So he couldn't get as much bass and that's why he originally went to the 10" woofer. But I wouldn't expect it to give you the same bass as a regular quality woofer with more x- max . There's always a compromise. But I like the baffle, I am already planning a baffle shape like that on my next speaker cabinet.

[@carlitomelon4610]

After watching quite a few of these show&tell videos, it looks like cheesy xover parts ARE "par for the course" even for high end speakers 🙄

[@n.lyndley.9889]

To Too Two Three, different words.

[@BostonMike68]

@@n.lyndley.9889 thanks mom

[@carlitomelon4610]

@@n.lyndley.9889 Yeah I was also tempted to be the grammar police. Nice job. Stay tuned. KZbin comments will be a full time job!

[@davidnewell3232]

@@carlitomelon4610 One exception in recent years was the Dynaudio Heritage Classic. They built the crossover from Mundorf components. They are similar to the components Danny uses. Dynaudio normally just makes drivers. When they decided to release a speaker to feature their best drivers, they built a crossover the Danny would have. The bookshelf speakers were $7000 US a pair. Dynaudio were so exited about showing off the crossover, that you can see every component on it. The speakers can be built from scratch for less than $1500, even if you buy the components individually at online retail.

[@BarryBianculli]

I had the opportunity to take a brief look inside the Source Point 10. The crossover looked very similar to the 8’s parts-wise.

[@matthewhilty4209]

I thought the point of the speaker was that it sounded fun and not really accurate. I did notice when demoing these that they did not have much "sparkle". I am glad there is a fix for this and improving the impedance curve making it synergise with more amps.

[@davidnewell3232]

Shouldn't the music bring the fun and then the speaker accurately relate that fun?

[@AndrewB23]

From my understanding they're supposed to be an accurate speaker but sound louder than it is

[@54tristin]

Certainly the room has far more impact than binding posts!

[@carlitomelon4610]

The 888 upgrade should be interesting.... That impedance curve was scary! Some amp owners might just want the "impedance trap" as a kit....

[@ChicagoRob2]

You would think that Jones would have seen that in his testing and fixed it.

[@benjamink.6286]

Again a nice one - thanks Danny! Maybe you could take a look at the new Epos models eg. the EPOS ES 14n which is designed by Karl Heinz Fink (a well known and deemed developer - at least in Europe). All tests praise the speakers to the skies. Another interesting speaker would be from the italian mafunfacturer "Rosso Fiorentino" - like the "ELBA 2" often described as a real secret.

[@einarbk885]

the baffle makes it look huge even with just the 8"

[@chrisdraper1976]

Great video as always. Got to get my butt in gear and send my Monitor Audio Bronze 100 and see what they need

[@sidesup8286]

It's good that we have such a consistently good speaker designer as Andrew Jones. Has he ever put out a mediocre speaker? They all seem to be good. I am also a fan of Michael Kelly who is the owner and designer of Aerial Acoustics. His model 10 from the 1990s when the company was new, is still considered by some as among the best speakers of all time. What good parts quality crossovers they used.It's first review was in a great short lived audio review magazine called simply, FI. The magazines owner/editor/reviewer was another Michael K. Michael Kay to be exact. In around the 4th or 5th issue Michael Kay admitted that he had serious hearing loss in one ear, but he had other reviewers confirm or non-confirm his impressions. I really miss that magazine. They sent out free issues of their new magazine for many months, whose names & addresses they must have gotten from buying a mailing list from somewhere. Maybe another magazine. I enjoy the videos. Maybe some day Danny will be flabbergasted at how good the parts are in something.

[@MichelLinschoten]

Tbh at that price pretty cheesy crossover. Wasn't expecting that at all

[@dennycote6339]

I read the Stereophile review of the 10, i cant believe anyone disagrees with your mods. Its all science

[@teknolojigundemi]

i am suprised , expected better parts. Thank you.

[@Reyfox1]

Well, he did say it was built to a price point.

[@thepracticalaudiophile]

I thought they were going to talk to each other.

[@thomosburn8740]

This video was really something - and I already loved the SourcePoint 8 as it was. Do or can you offer an assembled replacement crossover/board so that "assembly challenged" people such as myself will have a completed circuit that can just be attached to the drivers with the barest minimum of soldering?

[@lexicon612]

I'm not great with a soldering iron. My local electronics repair shop agreed to do all the soldering I needed for 50 bucks. A rewire & Tube Connector's mod. EPOS Epic 2's...Sadly, I learned the EPOS crossover's were the same 25.00 ones in this video. To say they all do it is an understatement. The Epic 2's were msrp 800 pair. 25.00 crossover's. They do sound better but the real bottleneck is the crossover itself. When I'm ready to part with them it will be a kit from Danny to replace them. Me too...couple of speaker leads is all I'm capable of. Danny's reasonable. Completed crossover is probably doable with an up charge. Otherwise do a local repair shop. Take care.

[@ChicagoRob2]

I’m surprised they didn’t bother to radius the rear edge of the woofer opening.

[@truman4956]

I would love an ABX test with stock speaker vs the upgrade. Will you offer a similar kit for the 888?

[@sloboat55]

I'll say, the Sonicaps and No-rez, turned my Pedest'ale Tower speakers into instant Heirloom speakers. Excellent vid

[@veroman007]

still kicking myself for not getting those!

[@The_Story_Channel]

@@veroman007 you and me both.

[@MARVELOUDIO]

Would be interesting to see on a Scope what influence IRON has over current on a signal! And how much it changes when a static magnetic flux is applied , up to saturation of the iron!

[@ThresholdZhor]

That narrow ringing is the Doppler effect on coaxial speakers

[@mattholland315]

Really? So you’re saying the ringing wouldn’t be in the measurement if the test signal was a sine sweep, but would be there if broad band noise was used?

[@ThresholdZhor]

@@mattholland315 the doppler effect increase if bass is present, I mean music, coaxial is only worthy if the woofer is cut above 600 hz the the doppler is minor but that need a 3 way design like the upper model Dany mention in the video

[@patrickmccrank8414]

I didn't see an upgrade video for the SourcePoint 10s. Would they use the same upgrade kit?

[@dannyrichie9743]

I have not looked at that model yet. Maybe someone will send one in.

[@BruceCross]

Textbook case of a speaker that measures well, but still has issues.

[@larrygaines7462]

My opinion, same coax is moving in and out wave guide. I see a nice spot for tweeter, and plenty of space to mount an a amp and dac, xover for the expence.

[@richardnelson1684]

That looks like a nice upgrade until the customer has to build that pile of parts inside the enclosure without a new circuit.

[@ultraneight]

I bought the sourcepoint 10's, they dont offend and that's about it, I wanted to love them as this is the most I've ever spent on speakers, but after swapping amps, pre-amps, sources and moving them many times, the best I got is, they sound like flat studio monitors. Either I'm delusional or everyone else is, there's definitely better speakers for the money and I own many.

[@RacingAnt]

I don't think anyone's delusional here. I think you have a preference for speakers that add distortion and colouration to the source. Nothing wrong with this at all. But, that doesn't make others delusional. So long as everyone is happy with what they're listening to, everyone can be right.

[@ultraneight]

@RacingAnt I appreciate your input. I've continued to listen to them and my opinion hasn't changed much. You're right when saying I like speakers for how they can color or distort the original signal but there wouldn't be an industry if we were all looking for flat uncolored sound. For what it's worth, I've found these speakers sound best (to me) when they're completely off axis, the more the better, tweeters way above the ear and pointed out, away from center listening position. I'm in no rush to sell them but they still haven't completely sold me.

[@jsb6937]

Wish I was closer (shipping costs), I have a pair of quite rare Posselt speakers and I'm really curious of how they measure. The downside of these transformations is that every speaker seems to be awfully made. Would love to hear mine upgraded.

[@adamkuykendall9891]

I guess I need to watch a video on making a crossover board. No idea what I’m doing.

[@donaldharrell6915]

Those parts are sad. I have a pair of Elac Adante stand mounts and the crossover parts are much better for less money. Guess the profit margins at MOFI need to be much higher. Still like Andrew Jones speakers though.

[@Charles12509]

Have you looked at the Volti speakers and if so what do you think?

[@Joshualbm]

Easy with the MOFI bashing. There is no better product out there for reissues of classic recordings. They use DSD as part of their process because it is a vastly superior step in retaining the analog essence without further degradation of the tape. The format was introduced by Sony as an archival process that was essentially a direct, exact copy of the master recording. So Sony had to encrypt it on their SACD reissues because of the exactitude with which the recordings are rendered. Talk to any recording engineer out there and they will attest to a DSD dub as being indistinguishable from the master. The 1 bit recording process follows the amplitude of the signal and can be played back with only a simple filter directly through analog equipment. It is not a file that can be manipulated or written over because it is not a binary code. Everyone who bought a MOFI re-issue recording from this process has the best possible rendition of those original recordings. Give them a break, they're producing amazing stuff and should continue to do so for the benefit of humanity who are slowly being brainwashed by garbage.

[@James-l8i6g]

Do you work for mofi, or Sony 😊

[@Joshualbm]

​@@James-l8i6g No, I just have an informed opinion.

[@richardgrant418]

@@James-l8i6g maybe he’s just a guy who like reissues that sound great But as you asked that - do you have evidence that he is wrong?

[@jdlech]

Phase shift is definitely among the most misunderstood aspects of speaker design. I just deleted about an hour of writing. It's beyond the scope of this comments section. I was once tasked to teach a co-worker how to handle a certain tool. It took me all of 5 minutes to demonstrate it's use. But it took me nearly an entire day to explain all the things one has to consider in order to use that tool properly and safely. In the end, he reported to my boss that, "he made it look too easy". Danny, you make driver phase management look too easy.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Thanks, and yes, it is not an easy subject.

[@edgewound]

Phase shift is addressed in the time alignment of the dual concentric design.

[@AllboroLCD]

I need one of those t-shirts for my lady!

[@54tristin]

Maybe I’m wrong , but if EVERY speaker Danny works on has steel binding posts, I find it hard to believe this is an I,ports t issue. It would too easy to switch the material in the posts if it made any hide difference!

[@markgaches1961]

Daniel is on fire this week another incredible job done.

[@thomasschafer7268]

What job? Overprized upgrade 😅😅😅😅

[@aceofspades6667]

@@thomasschafer7268overprized ?

[@davidnewell3232]

@@thomasschafer7268 Do you go by Thom or Mr. Asschafer?

[@NotAnAudiophilePodcast]

I wonder why the reflex port tuning saddle in the impedance chart changes so much? Is is the extra volume of components inside the box? Probably not as the tuning frequency remains the same but when the two charts are overlaid to show the improvement in the mid the change of shape of the saddle has magically gone away 19:00

[@rickg8015]

Hi Danny.. Do you also provide the new boards for the larger XO parts with layout instructions? Plus, Assembly instructions inside the cab?

[@dannyrichie9743]

It does not come with a board to mount the parts on.

[@DannyRichie-uc8sw]

new boards are not provided, you will need to figure out the layout and mounting.

[@rikardekvall3433]

@@dannyrichie9743is there an extra DannyRichie-uc8sw that answer the comments?

[@NosEL34]

​@@DannyRichie-uc8swdoes that mean you only ship a box of passive parts? No lay out diagram or instructions? Thank you

[@stevenpaul3886]

The cross over kit I got from Danny for my SVS towers are absolutely amazing, but it took two years for me for them to sound there very best considering I was told it takes 500 hours for everything to break in. Yep, it really did take that long, before that they just sounded plan before the OMG happened. The speakers unreal and better then my friends B&W 700 series towers. No joke they fill the room so much better, it just took a long, long time for them to get to this point. It’s actually hard to explain how good they actually sound unless ur able to experience it. Thx Danny! Wow

[@paulgyro]

500 hours of break in? What if I told you it was 50? How do you know who's right?How long until it just breaks? Why doesn't break in continue past 500? At want point are they just worn out?

[@stevenpaul3886]

Doesn’t matter what you think lol… All I can say is it took a very long time for them to sound 3 dimensional with a beautiful soundstage. You have no clue the amount of caps that go into this so ur really talking out ur ass, u sound like a snowflake lol. I can hear one coming a mile away! 😂

[@fredemny3304]

"Break in" is better known as "expectation adjustment" or "bollocks".

[@LugsyTL]

​@@fredemny3304One well known reviewer has best response "why does everyone assume every audio product improves with use"?

[@larsv6144]

Will you make an upgrade for the SourcePoint 888 too?

[@dannyrichie9743]

I will if someone sends one in.

[@haasmail1]

@@dannyrichie9743 has anyone sent in a pair of 888’s? If I send mine in, what is the process?

[@davidfuller581]

These are about the best two-way coaxials on the market, bar none. Unfortunately tehy still have all the usual 2-way coaxial problem: high IM distortion because the woofer does a lot of excursion and modulates the loading of the tweeter a bit.

[@robertfournier7050]

Your T-shirt says it all. Yet a question on these drivers is where is the magnet?

[@dannyrichie9743]

They use a small neo magnet.

[@lexicon612]

Can't believe you pulled out another 25.00 crossover out of another not cheap speaker. Keep remembering that 4k Revel bookshelf you exposed awhile back. Thanks' again for clearing up all the undue hype behind this speaker. I can guarantee his crossover's in his living room system are not those 25.00 ones. That is what sucks about this. Your the best Danny TY.

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@bunjidogg That is true.

[@lexicon612]

@@bunjidogg Those were some amazing reviews of those 25.00 crossovers. That tells me all I need to know about so called expert reviewer's. We had to put some cheap shit in them to be competitive in the speaker market doesn't fly with me and frankly I'm surprised it does with you. With all due respect. Offer crossover options then. problem solved.

[@Artcore103]

@@lexicon612 or maybe it tells you that the whole "parts quality" thing is marginal at best in any improvements it can bring. simple electric circuits, not magic. the parts shape the frequency response curve, they don't magically make your sine waves sound better.

[@AudiS4orce1]

Dude, he’s adding $680 to cost of the speaker. In any company, you need to triple the cost to recover it. So that alone adds $2K to the cost of the speaker.

[@rikardekvall3433]

@@Artcore103if you can’t hear it, why comment? Better parts do matter, same in food.

[@thinkIndependent2024]

Danny As I grow older the need to listen to speakers direct is less and leans more on the theory of light and rear projection just like Alan Blumlein intended when he invented Stereo circa 1929. Is it possible Americans were so hooked on mono they missed the rear projection concept let me know if you are familiar.

[@FOH3663]

Will you elaborate please? .... interesting

[@thinkIndependent2024]

When I studied 1933 archives the goal was to replicate a " Life Size" Image they redeveloped new microphones and speakers to meet that target and remember he got the Idea in a movie theater!! The math in his notes point towards speakers angled to produce a mirror Image from reverse just like light from the front in fact the vectors in the formulas are light based When all is right you get the direction of the piano keys and the singer around 5-6 feet high and most instruments 3-4 feet a true Analogue I'm not referring to Vinyl but the true definition of the word.

[@georgemunteanu4040]

Hello! What about the 888 floorstanders?

[@Kthl19504]

Will there be an upgrade available for the 10s?

[@dannyrichie9743]

If someone sends one in then I will have a look at it.

[@wyup]

I'm glad such videos exist to realise how much a speaker is overpriced, all Hi-Fi is speculative, prices of products such as these jump in the thousands: 999$, 1,999$, 2,999$ to mount polyester capacitors and ferric binding posts. Making this speaker costs so much less than the asking price.

[@johnpeterson99]

Steve's rather 'loud' silence on the source point 10s is rather interesting to me. He didn't even give them an honorable mention at the end of '23. Anyone else notice this?

[@BruceCross]

Steve Guttenberg?

[@BrentLeVasseur]

Why couldn’t they move the center tweeter slightly forward closer to the edge of the speaker cone and then slightly delay the signal response to time align it with the woofer such that the cone movement wouldn’t affect the tweeter response?

[@n.lyndley.9889]

Two ways to time align. Analogue: physically move the driver. Digital: independent delay of frequency band.

[@ciprian810]

I get old school Technics sb m300 vibes, seeing these.

[@ClaytonMacleod]

Not that this is something that could physically be done with those specific parts and how they’re built, but what might happen if you could do this? Say that tweeter is 3” behind the woofer mounting ring. What if you put the tweeter on a 3” post to bring it forward, away from the woofer cone? So it is still in the centre of the woofer in X and Y, but is now forward in Z by 3” and thus out of the cone area by that much. Is that going to be enough of a positive with regard to its location relative to the cone to solve that issue? Or is that only going to lessen it by a certain amount?

[@dannyrichie9743]

That would cause a significant phase shift.

[@ClaytonMacleod]

@ If it helped alleviate the existing issue do you suppose that might be better or worse than how that shift in phase might sound? Is the existing issue the lesser of two evils or the other way around?

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@ClaytonMacleod The shift in phase not only messes up the time arrival, but causes cancellation that creates a hole in the response.

[@ClaytonMacleod]

@@dannyrichie9743 Yes, but the problem you were discussing was its placement was causing too much constructive interference. Might be interesting to test this coaxial arrangement with a way of varying the tweeter’s distance to see if there’s a happy medium.

[@ThatGuyAM]

Shirt kinda matches the baffle shape.

[@BruceCross]

Ha, it kinda does.

[@Ricky-cl5bu]

Where is the money in them if the crossover is no good , it’s only a box with a 8” full range driver 😮

[@RennieAsh]

The cabinet, and the driver probably takes just as much to design a good coaxial motor system. Otherwise it's the same old thing, there's markup everywhere

[@theoracleprodigy]

​@@morlidorhave you ever tried updating a crossover? It can make a massive difference especially when it's junk.

[@davidcross890]

​@@morlidorwhat???

[@theoracleprodigy]

@@morlidor lol try again. Replace one sand cast resistor on a tweeter and tell me you didn't hear an immediate difference. Until you do that you can't state that it makes no difference.

[@eddietours3728]

I wonder if you test in a anechoic chamber again would the change too much not what jones was looking for 🤔

[@dannyrichie9743]

We've had a 23 foot long anechoic chamber. I can measure down to 200Hz using a gated time window, outside of the anechoic chamber, and get the exact same results.

[@scrivs1976]

Way to go on the thumbnail, slow-Yoda!

[@andrefortune8278]

What reference tracks are there for this ringing 🫣

[@mndlessdrwer]

I'm sure it and the 10" version are nice, but I inherently distrust 2-way designs that claim to be full-range. There's just no way you're getting deep bass and clean mids at the same time. Compromises will be made. If you don't like a lot of bass then it may be an acceptable compromise, but I love bass, so I'll stick to proper 3-way designs.

[@andrewsefcik1242]

What can you do for my JBL 100 Classics to upgrade them

[@dannyrichie9743]

Send one in and I'll take a look at it.

[@54tristin]

Sell them

[@solarman30]

The thumbnail is hilarious! Dan

[@dannyrichie9743]

That's all Ron (my editor). I don't see them until you do.

[@ianorigbo7617]

This is a big one.

[@stevengagnon4777]

Small wave guide for the tweeter? Or will that fix one problem and create a worse problem? Really is there a win, win solution to eliminate the woofer cone as a wave guide. I always thought thst the moving wave guide (woofer) would create some problems . Perhaps the shape near the tweeter thought is not right or could be tweaked to minimize the effects. This can only be addressed in the design and development phase of manufacturing. Thr art of manufacturing speakers is certainly addressing the the trade offs and pit falls to achieve a pleasant sound.

[@hoth2112]

The main issue is the voice coil former for the woofer sticks out 1-2mm above the tweeter's mount. Trimming the former back to just behind the tweeter mount would help a lot, as pushing the woofer back to push the former down helped to smooth out the response quite a bit. Adding another/separate waveguide could work, but it would likely cause issues for the woofer, especially at higher volumes, or it could also make the tweeter response worse as well. (see the SoundArtist SB8C)

[@stevengagnon4777]

@@hoth2112 glad to hear a reply. It does seem like a little refinement at the voice coil former and adjacent area could go a long way. As I suspected a separate wave guide will not be easy to implement and still cuase worse problems. The moving cone of the woofer has been one of my concerns along with the actual shape of the cones. I believe that the shape ideal as wave guide for the tweeter may conflict with the ideal shape for the woofer.

[@Rocker6969]

Danny, Is that big/thick baffle an improvement as far as you can tell or just there to look good ?

[@dannyrichie9743]

The faceted design does minimize some surface reflections.

[@revelry1969]

We need an upgrade kit for sourcepoint 10…. I got a pair.

[@dannyrichie9743]

Send one in.

[@hamidrezahabibi8111]

Will you upgrade the 10s as well?

[@dannyrichie9743]

If someone sends one in than I will take a look at it.

[@dannyrichie9743]

I think someone is sending one in.

[@turbo5483]

Hi Danny, can you explain why steel is no good on crossovers and speaker terminals

[@dannyrichie9743]

It will store and hold a residual electric charge that causes smearing.

[@japansh]

How difficult and expensive is to use brass nuts and washers? its probably another 25c. Don't understand this at all!?!?

[@MFKitten]

I wonder if a coaxial speaker made with a flat or dome shaped cone would be better, eliminating the moving waveguide aspect. I have seen the ones that have the little cone on the tweeter itself to be the actual waveguide. That's one way to get around the issue I suppose.

[@DannyRichie-uc8sw]

Nah, then you'd just have a moving baffle which would likely be worse.

[@kurtcurran]

Thiel 3.7 designed driver with wave membrane but flat surface so tweeter not in a wave guide.

[@pauldavies6037]

Andrew is a great designer but is probably told by the accountants only to use the cheapest cross over parts

[@great100m]

Very interesting. I would like to hear Andrew Jones' rebuttal or whether he agrees.

[@michaelmarcin1003]

I doubt Jones would complain about using better quality parts. At most he might dispute the value of any changre or improvement. Frankly, it would be nice if MoFi offered an option to buy the speaker with higher quality crossover parts.

[@TheAgeOfAnalog]

Would you say concentric drivers are basically a gimmick?

[@dannyrichie9743]

No, they have merit.

[@paullordi5154]

How come kef meta doesn’t have those problems

[@driftingbunnies]

Does the upgrade reuse the stock crossover PCB?

[@hoth2112]

No, the new parts (as seen on the table) are much too large to fit back onto the original PCB, which is also mounted to the rear binding post cup. you will need to mount the crossover onto a couple boards and fit them between the braces on the floor of the speaker.

[@benjoe999]

I would like you to check a KEF C95. Maaaan.... It took me a lot of time to update it

[@dannyrichie9743]

Send one in and I will take a look at it.

[@freeradical6390]

Wawa at Mission Ridge.......its a double black diamond. :)

[@12622outback]

Short run but fun

[@IanKnight40]

Ringing at 3khz.....is this due to the notch filter ?

[@dannyrichie9743]

No it has something to do with the response of the tweeter right at the inside edge of the woofer cone.

[@MotownAudio]

Can I send you my 10’s to upgrade them ??

[@dannyrichie9743]

I'll be glad to take a look at one of them.

[@MotownAudio]

Great how do I go about it

[@dannyrichie9743]

@@MotownAudio Send one to the address that is at the bottom of every page of our website.

[@BrianHaselden-ek7jv]

Can you modify the grill to remove the Mobile Fidelity badge, lol?

[@HansDelbruck53]

A Dremel tool works wonders. LSMFT

[@carlosoliveira-rc2xt]

You can easily put a Bose badge on it or a custom Magico plaque for the rear if things like that matter to you.

[@FOH3663]

​@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Yes, like a SS 454 badge ... "is that a real 454 SS?"

[@robk5745]

Everything is really cheap, not shocked for an over marketed product. Still a 3k speaker here in Canada, that’s crazy

[@linandy1]

How colored is that poly cone ?

[@dannyrichie9743]

It was a paper cone.

[@pandstar]

Ha! I just heard these yesterday at T.H.E. Show in Costa Mesa. I almost immediately heard what is going on at 3K. They were driving them with a cheap Pioneer receiver, so I thought that was causing the problems, but what Danny points out here is probably more of what I was hearing. All I know, is the sounded a bit harsh and glassy. Not what I was expecting. And I also heard the lack of soundstage detail and layering. My friend and I made the exact same comments when we left the room.

[@pulDag]

How does the glass sound?

[@davidcross890]

My references are ultra high performance and the sourcepoint was unbearable to listen to compared to a full synergy designed and built ultra high performance setup. I could not settle for the vast limitations that were clearly audible when I listened to them. I would never affiliate my name to less than par excellence minimum under any circumstances

[@maartenmulder2630]

Has anyone actually tried this upgrade yet? From the video i get the impression you guys havent listened to the speaker acter the upgrade. Regards

[@DannyRichie-uc8sw]

the person who sent the speaker to Danny is currently having them built and installed. so no, no one has listened to them yet. We never do the installation work in-house, just the crossover design work.

[@maartenmulder2630]

@@DannyRichie-uc8sw Ah i understand, Thank you. Does that mean this kit was developed without being listened to? Curious cus I'm considering doing this upgrade in the future

[@timpollack4606]

@@DannyRichie-uc8sw Do you put your kits in the speaker and listen to them or is it pure speculation that they will sound better?

[@oluhamilton2121]

TELL 'EM, Danny.

[@darrenmarrable2530]

Wish I could hear the difference....😊

[@AndrewB23]

He wishes he could hear the difference also 😂

[@JulioCSolar]

Like one of my audiophiles friend says: why reputable designers and companies don’t offer upgrades? For him having Danny go through their design and rip it off doesn’t make any sense when they can easily offer 2 different iterations of the same design and leave people with the choice. I agree.

[@dannyrichie9743]

I am not ripping it off. We are just servicing our customers. You are correct though in that they could offer a higher quality version of it. We do that with most of our DIY kits. We have a budget level version and upgrade options.

[@LeonFleisherFan]

Probably it's a way of admitting the standard version is built to a price point versus the promise of marketing hyperbole? Having said that, I agree full heartedly, it would be the pragmatic way of going about it, not to mention if crossovers were external or somehow plug-in, which is technically speaking highly feasible, it would allow people to get their dream speaker at its entry level price and save up for the upgrade as an option, without having to rip out drivers and unsolder and re-solder parts etc., which is probably not everyone's cup of tea.

[@kjellrogerjgensen60]

They dont do uppgrades, for some reason, but it is good for Danny. Maybe they dont trust their customers to uppgrade filters instead of bying new more expensive speakers with new bad filters instead. Its a question about educating your customers instead of exploiting their lack of knowledge. And most of the brands seems to have chosen the last option. But at wery high pricepoints the priority are leaning the other way. So Danny are making gold out of grey rock. All honour to him for that. I hope they dont hate him for that. Car manufacturers does not mind if cars are being modifyed, or improved as far as i know, only in som countryes, but that is from safety and tax reasons...

[@mndlessdrwer]

CSS offers that kind of service, at least for their DIY speaker kits. They offer multiple tiers of crossover components, though I think they're all the same basic configuration, just a difference in quality.

[@mndlessdrwer]

@@dannyrichie9743 Exactly. Figure out how they tuned it by reverse-engineering the existing crossover, determine if that is optimal for the desired tuning, then replace or add components in a higher quality to ensure better performance, more consistency, and better longevity.

[@TriAmpHiFi]

. So it is the same MoFi.

[@bw8827]

Charge a premium price and what the eye doesn't see............Well done Danny. I doubt Andrew Jones will respond.

[@gdwlaw5549]

Hi, I’m Andrew Jones AI😅

[@rap-soldier2185]

@ Mr Larwence go play tennis and no meat. ⁉️​@gdwlaw5549

[@ilianstoimenov6619]

MoFi likes this video 🤣🤣🤣

[@justasimplefox]

That crossover 😂

[@thomasschafer7268]

😅😅😅klipsch ist keinen Deut besser!!!🇩🇪

[@mattholland315]

There’s nothing funny about it at all. Sold engineering at appropriate costs. The gains from Danny’s upgrade had he not tweaked the response would be very very subtle. Erin measured this speaker and it did not display failings you could point towards the crossover.