Danny vs Christians: God, Love, and Punishment

[@-Monad-]

These guys weren't tracking the most basic explanations. You have the patience of... a really patient person.

[@leoskyi]

I think they knew where that track was leading so they tried to avoid it

[@lincolnwilcox]

@@leoskyi They 100% knew where it was going and purposefully being dishonest.

[@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke]

“Punishment is giving someone what they are due.” - when someone owes me money, their act of paying me back would be them ‘punishing’ me.

[@DannyPhilTalk]

Yeah he gave like…three terrible definitions of punishment.

[@jettythesunfish]

So a parent beating their child is abuse, but a god burning its children for eternity isn't? 🤔

[@leoskyi]

I think it requires a sort of mental illness to think like that. And we don't have it

[@scottduke]

I’m looking forward to watching this later!

[@utubepunk]

Scotty D... not a true fan. Noted! 😏😉

[@scottduke]

@@utubepunk I was babysitting my grandsons. You cannot watch live while doing that!

[@utubepunk]

@@scottduke Hey now, don't be weighing me down with your facts & details!

[@displacegamer1379]

24:10 what's interesting is that he read that and he knew that directly underneath that definition was another definition that lined up perfectly with what Danny said. The fact that he chose not to announce that but to purposefully conceal that from the conversation shows you a little bit about that person.

[@callmeflexplays]

Its forgivable that they misunderstood you at times, but when you literally tried to say "no that's not what I mean, let me explain it" and they wouldn't let you because they want to ramble on based on their misunderstanding, that's weak.

[@MrBlef666]

FAM FAM BRO, FAM...BRO DANNY DANNY...listen listen what a christian gangsta out there

[@CainMadness]

I couldn't watch more than half of this. That Dr. Drops guy was extremely hard to listen to. I commend you on your patience and tolerance.

[@hsvenss0n]

What is perfect love? This, apparently: ”And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.” ‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15‬:‭32‬-‭36‬ ‭(KJV‬‬)

[@googleuser6250]

It is so hard to listen to people who either intentionally misunderstand or are simply ignorant, that insist on being heard and worse, RIGHT!

[@apinkandblueshark]

The mic drop at the end🤌

[@utubepunk]

They need a Christian moderator so a 1 on 1 debate becomes 2 on 1 debate. Easier for them to steamroll & mute Danny.

[@displacegamer1379]

25:09 If punishment is meant to be a deterrent for behavior, then an eternal punishments is an unjust punishment. Because the punishment never ends so therefore it cannot deter the action. The punishment is not acting as a deterrent in the sense of hell because you have no way of ending the punishment and then seeing that it actually deterred that event that got them into hell.

[@judethree4405]

Point on!

[@frederickfairlieesq5316]

Danny made the point that judges give out punishments for a few different reasons. 1. Firstly, it can keep someone from committing future crimes by physically restraining them. 2. Punishment can also be used to help rehabilitate the criminal so that they no longer have to be locked away forever. 3. Punishment is also a way to deter the criminal on trial as well as OTHERS from committing the same crime. Judges are restrained from doling out punishments that are considered cruel and unusual. Judges can hand out life sentences in order to protect the rest of society, but they can’t hand out life sentences in solitary confinement because it doesn’t do anything to keep society safe. Thankfully we are teaching the point in society where even the death penalty is seen as immoral because it is solely used as a tool of revenge. God punishes by way of eternal torment. Does he do that because he’s trying to rehabilitate the sinner? Nope. The sinner is never leaving hell. Does he do it as a deterrent for others to see what happens when they sin? Nope. No one even knows hell exists until the day of judgement when we are all judged at once. The only way human courts and God’s court can be viewed as even slightly similar is when punishment is used to separate the criminal/sinner from others as a way to protect others from the guilty party’s sin. If God’s motivation is separation to keep others safe, why the conscious torment? Why not just destroy the soul like in Matthew 10:28? What is the torture adding here? Nothing. But it gets even worse once we try to reconcile eternal torture with the loving actions of a parent. God isn’t judge Wapner handing down punishment to strangers. God is prescribing eternal torture for his CHILDREN! If your parent said they were going to tie you in the basement and torture you until you die because they love you, would you believe that they love you? Of course not. You would either think they hate you or you’d think they were a sociopath.

[@displacegamer1379]

@@frederickfairlieesq5316 I don't know what your comment has to do with my comment. My comment was very specifically responding to something the Christian said. My comment was not talking about something Danny said. Your comment seems to be trying to address something Danny said. This means that you're comment has nothing to do with my original comment which means that it's a meaningless comment in the context of my comment. You probably should have just created a whole different comment to the video instead of posting all of that inside of my comment as a reply as it has nothing to do with what I said.

[@frederickfairlieesq5316]

@@displacegamer1379 I liked your comment, and it got me thinking about all the ways the theist's arguments failed. I wasn't refuting anything you said. I probably should have posted the comment elsewhere, but I left it there as a sort of further, more indepth discussion of the problem you raised. Honestly the only reason I take the time to write out a comment is because it helps me organize my view on the topic. I find that writing is immeasureably helpful in finding holes and mistakes and non sequitors in my thought process. In other words, the comments I write are primarily for my own edification. It helps me think critically. So don't think anything I said is in any way a challege to what you said. On the contrary, your comment is what got my mind thinking about how I understood the topic, so the idea to post it elsewhere never crossed my mind. Sorry for any confusion.

[@displacegamer1379]

@@frederickfairlieesq5316 I didn't think that you were disagreeing with me. My issue would not have been with you disagreeing with me. My issue was with the content of your reply. It seemed unrelated to my original post. Now it may just be my preference, but typically replies within a comment should have to do either with the original comment or with the content of another reply within that same thread. Your comment did not seem to be addressing someone else's reply and it didn't seem to be addressing my comments. It seemed to be talking about some other points. It seemed as if your comment should have just been its own comment to the video. This is what I was trying to address. Again, just to reiterate, my issue is not that I thought you were disagreeing with me. My issue was merely that it seemed as if your comment had no meaningful relationship to my original post.

[@sticks1990]

Theism survives on might makes right.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

yep, obey or burn.

[@uninspired3583]

That's why the moral argument is so funny. Start with a problematic moral standard and then use it to argue for a perfect moral source. Lol.

[@sticks1990]

@@HarryNicNicholas sounds perfectly loving, if you're a sociopath

[@alexcartagena1983]

Their wierd attempt to semantically gerrymander "punishment" to mean only "repercussions to actions that are appropriately meted out" doesn't even pass the basic muster of everyday usage. If that were the case the normative demand to "let the punishment fit the crime" would be a pointless tautology, rather than the revolutionary ethical innovation that it was in ancient babylonian law or whatever.

[@uninspired3583]

It also doesn't help their case. Eternal torment for finite crime is not justice.

[@PeteAtoms]

I wonder if these guys think the phrase "cruel and unusual punishment" does any actual work in a theory of justice or if it's just a bunch of empty words we use in the legal system.

[@JustinShinobi]

I came to see if anyone clocked that it is cruel and unusual PUNISHMENT not called abuse.

[@utubepunk]

Fam, fam, fam. Lemme finish. I'm not done filibustering & interrupting you.

[@42Oolon]

Of course if god makes moses sick and threatens death to encourage Moses to "c" his child, he isnt deterring or punishing, he is coercing.

[@BathwaterBender]

One-siddee mute-city. Quite absurd that not only could they not understand a very basic concept and argument but that they couldn't keep their mouths shut for more than 60 seconds before muting you.

[@leoskyi]

I think Danny should have granted them that "unloving punishment" is "abuse" if that how they wanna define it. I say that because it allowed them to drag him into a useless tangent about what "punishment" and "unloving" means and I'm pretty sure they understood what Danny meant by that. Moreover this detail doesn't affect Danny's main argument in any way imo. But that's what these guys are good at : focusing on the most irrelevant details to ignore the main problem.

[@beedub_]

The whole circumcision event takes places before Moses returns to Egypt. The whole “what about the people he was leading?” objection doesn’t matter because he wasn’t leading Israel yet

[@treyexists]

couldn’t even stand drops’ yapping his dishonesty became very annoying. i blocked kwamz becuz i’ve had convos where he’s been intentionally dishonest…terrible interlocutors.

[@ChristinaFromYoutube]

When a dog is destroying something you value they also think you're mean when you make them stop.

[@javoncore]

yeah bro idk how you talked to them for that long 🤣

[@cajunking5987]

Saw you on Pinecreek Doug and thought you were so cute I had to come to your channel lmao

[@benroberts2222]

Arguments centered around definitions of words are super cringe

[@displacegamer1379]

8:03 see they don't even believe this. You can easily tell that they don't believe this when you start to introduce God. All you have to do is say that God's justice is not loving. And then all of a sudden I imagine what you're going to start to hear them say is that God's justice is love. Directly contradicting what they just said. I am almost 100% certain that is what will be said.

[@mattgyrich1531]

Fam. Fam. Fam. Fam. Fam. Fam. Bro. Fam.

[@anthonydesimone502]

Brooooo!!!! Bro! Fam.

[@MLamar0612]

People like this, i would rather talk to in-person so they can see my face when they say some of the dumbest shit....

[@displacegamer1379]

6:58 what's hilarious is that he made that response well knowing that just a minute ago when you gave the example he laughed as if it was ridiculous. So before he was laughing because it was a ridiculous punishment and now he wants to say that the punishment is justified.

[@Jidom_101]

they basically accept that unloving punishment can be a form of abuse but either don’t realize it or choose to be disingenuous lol

[@treyexists]

i’ve talked to kwamz as well he’s very difficult to communicate with.

[@PHDinADHD]

He gonna deter Moses by Minecrafting his ass.

[@HarryNicNicholas]

we need to define "farce" too.

[@displacegamer1379]

1:14:43 He's completely not understanding. Given the nature of God and what we know about his ability to access knowledge, and his ability to actualize events in reality, God would have the ability to achieve his goals without having to kill Moses.

[@glorybtoGod]

Ever read the Bible? Ever tried to seek God? Ever tried to open ur heart to him?

[@DannyPhilTalk]

Yeah…

[@displacegamer1379]

1:15:52 God could have simply just not given the commandment to Moses. Moses wasn't needed to achieve the goal. Given that God has foreknowledge of the consequences, then God could have not instruct in Moses and then the ripple effects would not have happened. Or God could have instructed Moses in a way that only he was aware of the commandments and thus the ripple effects would also not happen. There are many ways that you could have constructed the scenario that did not resolve in a ripple effect. Then giving God's power and God's knowledge he would know how to implement these scenarios.

[@crazystart8581]

An hour and a half of people who were just not gonna listen. Maybe I'm late on this but I'm realizing that monotheism just eases people into accepting tyranny so easily. Like 1 claim is really all you need and people will do quadruple backflips to justify it for you.

[@user-u9g8m]

For example, "love your neighbor as yourself" can just mean that you can freely hate your neighbor, as long as you hate yourself. I don't find anything contradictory in it, because there is no commandment to love yourself in the 613 commandments.

[@lincolnwilcox]

These guys were just being dishonest and steamrolling. Typical behavior. They were not trying to understand at all.

[@Smayor75]

So it seems that “adjectives” are not allowed. 😵‍💫

[@miscalotastuff733]

God is a just, vengeful, and fair. He is not loving. Also getting cancer or getting sick is not from sin. It the way of the world. We are not free from those rules.

[@utubepunk]

Dr. Drops interrupts Danny like 5 times while the host looks up the definition of fallacy then immediately whines when Danny interrupts him. These clowns are redonk. DD is so afraid of a subject matter expert defining the word fallacy he's compelled to stop Danny while the host looks for a definition.

[@SonuSingh-sn8qg]

These two clowns 😂😂😂.

[@displacegamer1379]

26:01 If someone got a bad grade and their parent beat the child excessively that's still a deterrent. That child is going to take that punishment and most likely not do that act again because they know that they're going to be beating in that way. So nothing he just said is actually an argument against Danny's point. Or actually a support for their point. In excessive punishment, or an abusive punishment, can still be a deterrent. It's actually more likely to deterrent then a loving punishments. This is why people used to get their hands cut off when they stole things. Because this extreme measure deter people from doing it again. But it was still abusive.

[@displacegamer1379]

35:20 It's abusive punishment. The abuse is in relation to the punishments. It's called abusive punishment. I don't get how this guy doesn't understand their different types of punishment. What about corporal punishments?

[@HarryNicNicholas]

okay, so the fall is our fault - how come we're fixing it, look at the list of diseases we've cured, not to mention surgery, opticians, dentistry - the list is very long. is god losing his grip? is he slowly forgiving us? does god exist?

[@utubepunk]

Exactly. Aren't we spitting in god's face by doing these things? We're subverting the consequences he intended us to endure as a result of sin.

[@displacegamer1379]

32:47 we don't know what you mean by deterrence. From the way you just used it, it seems to insinuate that you mean the threat of punishment is the deterrent, not that the actual punishment is the deterrent. The way you were talking about earlier was as if the punishment itself was the deterrent for future actions. If someone is dead obviously the punishment can't be a deterrent for a future action because the person's dead.

[@technomancermagus8357]

Then if god exists what they did was abuse not punishment.

[@displacegamer1379]

30:41 well we can go to the dictionary since they like going to the dictionary. The dictionary definition says retribution. Retribution has nothing to do with deterrence. Retribution can be a deterrent if done correctly but it doesn't have to be.

[@robertcarlyle6102]

This is just pathetic.

[@displacegamer1379]

13:55 in the same way that you're defining what Danny is saying is abuse, you're defining punishment to be justice. You're doing the exact same thing that you just said you can't do. Your equivocating punishment with justice.

[@akindelebankole8080]

Cancer, diseases, natural disasters have been in existence way before human evolution. How that helps

[@displacegamer1379]

15:51 You said that Danny can't use unloving punishments as terminology because we already have a word for that. And that word was abuse. This means you're insinuating that Danny should only use the word abuse and not unloving punishments. And then Danny illustrated that you can't just use the word abuse because abuse can indicate other things outside of unloving punishment.

[@technomancermagus8357]

I mean I don't mind if Christians want to correctly point out that according to the bible they are in an abusive relationship with god.

[@frederickfairlieesq5316]

These guys are either terrible interlocutors in general or they were afraid that Danny was going to make them look stupid. Either way their persistent dishonesty was obvious.

[@utubepunk]

16:13 Parents have absolutely done this. This jabroni is filibustering, interrupting Danny & being pedantic because he knows if he admits what Danny is saying, his arse is cooked.

[@displacegamer1379]

1:17:18 You still missing the point. The point is that God commanded Moses not any other person. Only Moses. So if Moses didn't do this command then he disobeyed. So in the story Moses did disobey God.

[@bridaguy]

@@displacegamer1379 But also you gotta remember Jesus gave up his life to attone for our sins meaning his sins too

[@JerryPenna]

Dude doesn’t understand what an adjective is! 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@mmafreaks4871]

Man these two guys are pretty ignorant. It's hard listening to them.

[@utubepunk]

These clowns are soooo afraid of nuance.