Do Wooden Bows Break Easily? | Lessons from Stress Testing Bows

[@BZB33]

"Let's break some bows," he says cheerfully. You're an absolute treasure, sir.

[@DanSantanaBows]

@@BZB33 it’s fun! You should try it

[@BZB33]

@@DanSantanaBows I'm only halfway through my second bow, but I have eight staves drying. I'll be sure to break at least one of them ;)

[@DanSantanaBows]

If you ain’t breakin ya ain’t makin!

[@knolltop314]

Awesome vid for our newish board bow builders! Thanks!

[@DanSantanaBows]

@@knolltop314 Thanks Michael!

[@musaadfelton3909]

That sugar maple board bow was absolutely amazing. I can't believe that without any backing or belly material that this bow was able to bend so amazingly

[@eastcoastlithics]

This is art my friend. The hand writing, the illustrations and editing, and your dedication to teaching guys like me how to make and break these amazing timeless machines.

[@FidelGomez-vn5hc]

Dan, very interesting vedio. Now I know my love for wood bows goes beyond the feel and now, amazing strength, as you have demonstrated. Thx yu.

[@johnhalverson2849]

I'll say what maybe Dan is avoiding saying...the only people online that recommend fiberglass backing a wood bow are NOT bowyers of any reputation, merely internet content creators looking for views. I have been in the wood bow making community for two and a half decades and count among my personal friends many of the people that wrote the books (including many of the authors of the Bowyers Bible vol 1-4) and are writing the newer books. Not a single one will recommend a fiberglass tape back. Dan's explanation is simple and still complete. Watch that section over and over until you understand what the plane of neutrality is and why it is important.

[@DanSantanaBows]

I also waste time being flustered by pop-bowyer content where I can barely agree with half of what’s being said. If I were better grounded it wouldn’t fluster me as much as it does. But I have reasons to defend it and that’s why I’m gentle about not picking a fight. Your first year learning chemistry or physics you learn a lot that will be dismantled in your second year. That’s just how pedagogy works. Many engineers are inspired to become engineers by popular shows like mythbusters, and then later move on to technical and more accurate sources of information. It’s good for engineering that shows like that did the dirty work of seeking popularity and views. Pop bowyer content is good for the craft even when there is stuff experts think are BS. They’re not taking views from other bowyers, but making the pie bigger for everyone. Most importantly, they lower the perceived barrier of entry to get into the craft. Those are white lies I don’t want to tell, but I’m glad others say them, and to have a bigger audience because of it. Critical thinkers will quickly move on to better information. I don’t mind sweeping up a few misconceptions once in a while. It’s fun talking about bows anyway

[@richardhoule4389]

Such a great way to look at it! I have to say my first bow was red oak board with fg tape.. far from the best but it got me hooked. now 3-4 yrs later I have so many staves seasoning my wife wants me to move out haha. Thanks to guys like u I haven't used fg since that first one.

[@miguelbalaguer7920]

Dan Thanks once again 🙏🏻 your tutorial are inspirational, I learn and enjoy, also the Music from your Cousin is awesome. Abrazos y Bendiciones para Vos 👍💝🙏🏻

[@TaraMatovic]

THIS THIRD BOW FROM YOUR LIST IZ AMAIZING - I AM GLAD THAT U DID NOT BREAKE IT DURING TESTING AND U HAVE TO KEEP THAT BOW CAUSE U MADE IT PERFECTLY !

[@timc3257]

Hi Dan!! Was recurving a hickory bow today, and I thought of you! Thanks for all the good info!

[@cloudyfanning328]

I love data like this! It hurt to watch but nothing is more educational than any kind of failure. I'm working on a southeast alaska video on testing the few woods we have available because nobody has done it. I hope to finish it within a couple years and share all I learn through failure and success.

[@DanSantanaBows]

Awesome! What do you have up there?

[@борзыйкот-с8к]

Наверное лучший человек на Ютубе про изготовление луков,жаль понимаю через слово,но в любом случае,на просторах ру и бел Ютуба такое не найти, спасибо за труд ❤

[@meedy2023]

I honestly only broke 1 bow ever. My first bow , made out of pine that was hacked with a machette. I think many who start making bows copy paste final dimensions of other more aggressive bows of probably superior wood and try to imitate them. I generally leave the stave very oversized and pull it to the specific draw weight on a long string right away. If I'm seeing an inch of movement then tillering has officially begun. Don't get me wrong , I'm not mad to use a scraper to get 1 inch at a time at that point but I pretty much want only 1-2 inches of movement in each rasping session. I've heard that having a bow on the tiller as little times as possible is a good thing , but I never had a bow break doing this slow method. Lenghts can be shortened at the end , limbs slimmed down , tips tapered a bit more, slow and steady :)

[@stevew2347]

Good, accurate information Dan. 56" of draw without breaking is pretty insane.

[@glenn_r_frank_author]

Excellent description of the neutral position in the bow based on the backing or no backing. I never thought about it that way. Some great food for thought in designing the bow. I have some bamboo that a fellow boyer gave me which he was encouraging me to try as backing... now I am unsure if I want to even try it. Is Bamboo backing as detrimental to moving the neutral line to the back as fiberglass is?

[@dragonsage6909]

I've been using red oak with some success, I believe wood selection is the key.. I end up searching through dozens of boards to find one that will work without breaking.. It's very exciting and sad when one breaks.. Thank you for your great videos. :) The budding Bowyer on yt

[@DanSantanaBows]

@@dragonsage6909 That’s the key. I usually end up looking at about 20-50 boards before buying. Many times I just don’t find one

[@dragonsage6909]

@DanSantanaBows ..funny you say that.. I went through my local hardware store's entire stock yesterday for over an hour.. I didn't find a good one.. lol Really enjoying your videos! Thank you! :)

[@justabill5780]

I always recommend hickory for beginner bowyers. It's just so forgiving of mistakes.

[@DanSantanaBows]

Same here. I was very pleasantly surprised with sugar maple after these stress tests. When it breaks it feels more brittle than hickory, but with a good board it’s hard to make that happen

[@andreburre8991]

Last Year I destroyed a hickory longbow, clearly my fault. Arrows a little on the light side an massivly overdrawn, 33". It warned me by developing a lot of set and compressiin fracures. One sunny afternoon, the wood split in the upper limb 😢 The shorter remains got a new tiller and a new life as a crossbow.

[@justabill5780]

@@DanSantanaBows I've never come across sugar maple. But I'll be sure to give it a go if I ever do.

[@Oxnate]

Man, that's brave. Torturing your own works of art to death like that.

[@DanSantanaBows]

I try to do it every year. Always learn something from it

[@Crabbthecaveman]

I could never make this video lol. Thanks for the information

[@danielbuhler2067]

Great content as always Dan! What kind of draw weights were those bows you broke? I recently broke a cherry bow and I think the draw weight was just too high for the piece of wood, kiln dried lumber bow.

[@DanSantanaBows]

@@danielbuhler2067 About 45# on that maple board bow. Some were higher some lower. If the bow broke during tillering it sounds like it could have been violated wood. Some boards are made from logs that have been sitting around and had time to rot, so that could have been a factor too

[@danielbuhler2067]

@@DanSantanaBows completely agree. With kiln dried, there is no way in know what its history is really. I'm curious now to see what would happen to some of my old bows.

[@DironMc]

What about bamboo & sinew backing?

[@DanSantanaBows]

@@DironMc I don’t mention those here because for the most part they’re not backings you can add to a self bow without changing the design (except for a very light sinew coat.) You would usually use bamboo or sinew to assemble a bow blank for a very different design. i mention soft backing only here because you can slap them on at any point. See my video the back of the bow 6 ways for comments about other backings

[@timnosgirg7017]

This is such a good video. You have a very good explanation

[@ValoranVale]

What an excellent video! Nay, a film.

[@organicarchery]

That board bow was nuts! Good stuff!

[@DanSantanaBows]

Thanks Correy. That was for the folks who still say you shouldn’t use kiln dried wood

[@bienyamientoefy1923]

🙂❤❤❤greetings everyone.very interesting. thank you for the information on wood bows

[@kyleaguiar3413]

Happy 20th birthday to the sheet of OSB behind your tillering tree 🎉

[@anatineduo4289]

great info thank you

[@eliford2258]

In the bowyers bible they talk about the performance gains from board bows because of the rectangle cross section but I think they were only partly correct I think a lot of the gain was from the kiln dried wood being harder.

[@musaadfelton3909]

If I'm using white wood. Do you think that adding a bamboo back and belly would make a stronger bow? Would it support the tension and compression? Also I'm not in a region where wood is cheap and I have no forest anywhere near me to have wood selection. I was lucky to get a giant bamboo pole but i can't get any other wood beside pine here and other woods are very expensive. So I might buy a white oak board. However the problem is that we don't have the luxury of a broad selection. I can't get good straight grained planks or boards. So could I just use the bamboo to back a board if it does not have straight grain and then use bamboo on the belly too to support against the compression of the belly of the white oak?

[@Silentbet1of]

To be honest I hate backing and glue on a bow period it makes the bow a different from a self bow but that’s just me I guess

[@DanSantanaBows]

@@Silentbet1of I feel the same. Last time I backed a bow was the board bow tutorial. Before that it had been years

[@Амин-т4х]

Dan I have a question. How do i know it a wood is bow worthy? I have a perfect stave but it's an obscure tree and there is no info on density

[@tonymaurice4157]

Was wondering if Maple boards can be 80 inches? For a Maple flat warbow or would a Stave be better?

[@boymarauder]

I have a question. I made a ash flat bow out of a board and its taken some set just from light pulling. It isnt wet maybe 3-4% in the thickest part and the tiller is pretty great. Is there a way to reverse the set or prevent it from getting worse?

[@christophertracey7201]

Nice vid

[@thomasnuyts9725]

How about breaking by dry shooting taking the necessary precautions as to personal protective gear

[@DanSantanaBows]

@@thomasnuyts9725 Self bows are pretty resilient to dry firing. I have yet to break one this way. I have a few bows I’ve dry fired many many times

[@thomasnuyts9725]

@@DanSantanaBows no damage at all? By the way, great guitar music.

[@duckvr555]

What equipment do I actually need to make my first bow?

[@DanSantanaBows]

@@duckvr555 see ch4 of the board bow tutorial

[@duckvr555]

@@DanSantanaBows thank you

[@iliutaborza8081]

Hey I just cut a maple tree which is about 3.2 inches diameter at the thinest and 3.9 at the thickest. I split it but not perfectly, so that the thickest part has maybe 1-2 cm more thickness than the other part. Now I don’t know what to do - leave the thick part like this, and waste o lot of wood, or split it into 2, but it may not split evenly because of a knot in the middle of the length. Can someone give me some advice

[@DanSantanaBows]

@@iliutaborza8081 I would err on the side of wasting a little more wood to make sure you get a better stave

[@samlast815]

can you have a go at making connor kenways bow from assassins creed 3 I'd like to see someone try and make that bow looks awesome tbh very unique shame I can't post a picture

[@DanSantanaBows]

The problem with a lot of video game bows like this is that if you modify away the aspects that don’t make sense you’re back at a very normal bow design. I can’t see why I’d make the bow that shape along the belly

[@samlast815]

@DanSantanaBows what about the string knocks were the loop on to the bow limbs

[@DanSantanaBows]

@@samlast815 Whoever designed the bow in the game probably copied a toy bow for the nocks

[@samlast815]

@@DanSantanaBows what about making it with pvc pipe

[@DanSantanaBows]

@ Sure. Then add the decorative bits in leather or foam

[@donalddeatom2364]

Now we need one on hinges

[@prakaschandrayadav8273]

In which country do you live please tell me😢😢❤ I want to meet you😢😢

[@jill-ti7oe]

😄👍

[@vikeneshwaran4190]

Bro can you make gaandiva like bow the strongest bow in Hindu mythology....the bows like is a 7 or 8 feet bow have 108 strings up 54 up and 54down can't ever cut

[@VSci_]

Not if Dan makes them! ❤

[@DanSantanaBows]

I still break stuff, especially if I’m trying something new. Last time was a yew crossbow prod

[@VSci_]

@@DanSantanaBows I'm going through it right now with tri-laminate bows 😂. This is the first time I've played around with tri-lam bows. It started out fun, and it is....but nailing the recipe for a new (to me) combo can be frustrating. Makes me want to go back to self bows or backed bows. But new things make us grow 😁.

[@robertmooney1492]

I cant put too fine a point on this, as im prone to strong opinions myself, however; im sick to death of bowyer elitists who might say something such as- 'no bowyer of any reputation would use a fiberglass backing '. It's exactly this sort of closed mindedness that restricts experimentation and innovation in the craft. Though, ironically, i have to agree in an odd way; i find that black gorilla tape (at least three layers) melted on with a heat gun has made the best self bow backing 😂

[@DanSantanaBows]

@@robertmooney1492 The problem is not the reputations of bowyers that recommend drywall tape, it’s their understanding of the craft and material science. Fiberglass tape and fg backs have been thoroughly experimented with in the archery industry. no reputable mass manufacturer would consider using glass backs on wooden bows. this isn’t because they’re pretentious, it’s because they’re practical and understand material science, and because they tried it out and didn’t like it. Fg is a lousy backing for a wooden bow, the material stats are just in the wrong ballpark. Some bowyers are against it for pretentious reasons, but the reason the entire community is against it is because we have better ways of making bows

[@robertmooney1492]

@@DanSantanaBows soooo..... The same conventional fb backing that I've purchased online from a bowyery outfitter, designed to supplement tensive resistance to the back of a laminated/trad bow and is generally considered to be a standard in manufacturing industry (as it is used consistently by licensed archery equipment manufacturers) is a inferior backing material (I don't specify FIBERGLASS TAPE, because you condemned FIBERGLASS backing in general in your response ). I also respond this way in context to a bowyer who has said on at least two occasions that 'the best bow backing, is no bow backing '; these words reek of elitism in the sense that the statement is essentially stating that anyone incapable of producing a bow within practical parameters without a backing material (especially synthetic) is an inferior bowyer . Also, id be real pleased to see the technical stats ruling out fb backing(by which I mean laminated fb manufactured specifically as a practical backing for production archery equipment.)

[@prakaschandrayadav8273]

Bro please tell 😢😢 your address I want to meet you 😢😢 I am big fan please😢