Dansby Swanson's "Bad Contract" | Cubs Fan Reacts

[@SetupManCubs]

Who is right? Setup Man or iTalk Studios?

[@Teremei]

iTalk Studios. Dansby is blocking matt shaw, he was horrible for 2 months this year when we really needed him. Just looking at War alone is simplistic. We need a big bat that doesn't choke, and has BAWRISP. We have to consider how he is an unmovable contract who is now blocking our top prospect. I'd much rather have a $300 mil player that's hitting 30+ bombs a year with higher BAWRISP and OPS than an aging, Good D SS who is blocking our top prospect. It's not just his performance, it's the Cubs FO lack of planning the roster.

[@SetupManCubs]

@@Teremei the Matt Shaw argument is incorrect. Shaw is not a SS. Nor will the Cubs consider him at SS. 3B is a stretch at the moment. 2B is really where the org wants him to be. If Swanson continues to be a 4-5+ fWAR player, $25/year will be nothing for MLB contracts in the next 2-3 years.

[@therealdjway]

@@Teremei sorry, but it’s Hoerner, not Swanson, blocking Shaw (2b)

[@Duke_Scanlan]

Setup Man

[@ricklasse]

I read comments that Dansby Swanson played through and struggled through his knee injury for most of the season, which, obviously, had an impact on his hitting. The organization should have put him on the IL until he was healthier. You should never mess with knee injuries. Having said that, I like Dansby Swanson. I like that he hits the ball to all fields. I also like that he does take a lot of pride in his defense, which is rare these days.

[@SetupManCubs]

Yup, agreed. I think Bellinger might be in a similar camp

[@ricklasse]

@ Yep….I think it was either Hoyer or Counsell who commented on how quickly Bellinger came back from both of his injuries. I can’t imagine how painful it was for Cody when he came back from his cracked ribs and swing the way that he does and not aggravate his rib issue. And I’m sure the same goes for his cracked finger injuries. I wonder if he didn’t have that opt-out at the end of the season, if he would have stayed on the IL longer for both injuries. For me, 2024 was a season that was marred by injuries everywhere…even with a guy like Christopher Morel. He never spent time on the IL but he did have a few games in a row where he fouled a ball off his front foot and that kind of injury can alter a swing. The only regular non-pitchers who didn’t have any injuries, that we know of, were Michael Busch, PCA and Miguel Amaya. The only starting pitcher who didn’t have to deal with time in the IL was Shota Imanaga….and I’m not going to list all of the relievers who went down…that’s too long of a list. And the injuries came in bunches. There was a comment on baseball-reference a few weeks ago on their daily Q & A, where one of the commentators said he would have liked to have seen what the Braves could have done this year if they had been healthy all year….why can’t we apply the same question to the Cubs. I’m just hoping that whoever the Cubs hired for strength and conditioning will do a better job than what I’ve seen the last two years. And, I’ve said this before…if the Cubs are an 83 win team, they need to improve by two games per month…one game at home and one on the road, each month. That’s how close they are to post-season. With a six month season, that equals 12 additional wins and puts them at 95 wins. I’m sure we can go back and take a look at the 2024 schedule and find 12 games that they should or could have won. And, NO, I don’t want to see the Cubs pursue Juan Soto….not at the rumored 13 year contract….eventually most of those kinds of contracts become an albatross and impossible to get out of and it can financially tie the hands of team that may want to make other moves.

[@JH-so5kt]

iTalk generally makes very rushed videos based on hot takes and emotions. It's rare when his videos seem measured by any means. His jokes are also almost always awkward and don't land.

[@SetupManCubs]

Yeah, can’t disagree here

[@chicubs5574]

We knew what we were getting for Dansby Swanson. It was the best value, which Jed likes. I would like to see him hit better. Luckily we're not locked in to him for another 8 years if things continue to go south.

[@joes-activities1]

Hi, Just watched today's broadcast, (Fri. 11-29). SetupMan! at any moment I expected you to say the following: "Hoyer is quoted as saying that he watched every ground ball fielded by Dansby the previous year." Jed never-ever said I watched "Even a few of your times at bat!!!" I'm no great detective, but I sorta feel that Jed wanted a great shortstop! There are 8 other guys on the field that are also hired to hit the ball. I've been a Cub fan since 1955!! None of you have been through more "hell" watching the Cubs. The 2016 Cubs won 103 regular season games and damned near blew the World Series... I'm 85 and I plan on seeing the Cubs in at least one more World Series. Not saying they'll win it though.. Love you show. Thanks for all you do to keep me on the KNOW. Joe Avila.. Bella Vista, Arkansas. Previously from WrigleyVille.

[@Duke_Scanlan]

I watch all of italks videos but I watched about 30 seconds of his dog crap video about Dansby. You are totally correct. I remember at the end of the first year of all of the shortshop signings and MLB Network were praising the Cubs for such a great signing on Dansby. Bogaerts was an overpay. Turner sucked his first year but his plate discipline sucks and that along with his speed will decline as he gets older and Correa is an idiot. Regardless Dansby hasn't been the best but not the worst either. italk was just rushing a video out there for content.

[@SetupManCubs]

👍🏻💪🏻

[@jeffkrupsaw6457]

You’re doing a good job of pushing back on the hot-take/idiot crowd.

[@SetupManCubs]

💪🏻👊🏻

[@rtreno]

Thanks for educating us on Dansby Swanson's contract and value. Your analysis, Kyle, is clearly more fact-based than iTalk Studio's.

[@therealdjway]

Swanson’s contract has top ten negative trade value. His OPS has dropped every year of the contract and we paid him to be at least a low 800s OPS player. He leads the list of fWar because of his D.

[@mikepatula1402]

We will save all our pop cans to help him make ends meet!

[@SetupManCubs]

Lol

[@youarethecreator1]

I just didn’t understand the logic because we had Nico Hoerner gold glove over there. People questioned Nico’s arm but that was false. So in that regard it was a bad signing. Frankly an insult to Nico in a way.

[@TheLearningCatalystCoach]

I'm not happy about Swanson's 2024 season, at all. However, as a SS, Dansby's fielding basement is above Nico's ceiling. The same can be said for his bat. The Cubs need more out of Swanson's bat, but at its worst, still much better than Hoerner(which is why I'm also an advocate for dealing Nico... hopefully the spring time it takes him to get healthy, Shaw will have proved a much better bat and good enough glove(compensated by being surrounded by GG at SS and GG contender at 1B).

[@youarethecreator1]

@ I hope you’re right.

[@SetupManCubs]

Do you think Jed cares about how his moves might insult others? (David Ross is a good example)

[@youarethecreator1]

@@SetupManCubs Truth.

[@Aetnaboy73]

Overpaid. Hopefully he has a year to make my comment look stupid. Great show dude!

[@SetupManCubs]

Thank you

[@chriscarlson9556]

Hi Kyle, here is a video from Fair Territory Ken Rosenthal. Can made a list of baseball owners that probably should be replaced. If you go to the 16 minute mark that's where it starts. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZrKpXxsiMeZhNEsi=GcuvL2Et03VJMQWq 1:39

[@ttanne7838]

Swanson : Bad contract? way to early to say. But probably. Very good D. But the bat,Okay. But the CUBS wanted a very D shortstop.

[@patricklee4316]

It was a bad signing. The cubs were planning on going to the playoffs with Dansby. They won’t be now though. Dansby is going to have be around for a rebuild. I would say trade him, but that can’t happen.

[@SetupManCubs]

You don't think they will make the playoffs even once in his 7 years?

[@patricklee4316]

@ well he has 5 years left now, right? Honestly, I don’t think so. They have another rebuild to go through and lord knows how long that will take.

[@jordant568]

Is it a bit of a overpay? Probably.. The Cubs didn't really need to sign him in the first place since Nico was more than capable SS.. Would've really liked to have a bigger bat the last couple years...

[@iangrinols4370]

Life long Braves fan here... 25 million a year for Dansby is criminal. Besides 2022, he has always been a below average hitter with a good glove. He is a great clubhouse leader, which is valuable, but i didn't lose any sleep when he chose to sign elsewhere

[@laylowe7528]

Maybe the Braves are just cheap and let all their good players walk when they hit free agency…they’ve done NOTHING in the playoffs since they let Freddie and Dansby walk!! Great clubhouse leaders are valuable!!

[@Mcgee3880]

Cubs really overpaid on dansby. I agree with italk, 170+ million for a glove first short? Please it's really a firable contract, ya had Nico damn good defender at ss, you also had kids on the farm that might of developed for that position. Anyways this contract isn't at all good it's the reason cubs sit on their hands during the off season. Can't understand a team getting a premium tv deal and thanking their fans by having their headline players dansby and cody lmfaooooooo no thanks. Don't care about dansby being better than Correa, dansby is dog shit for more then half the season every season

[@Mcgee3880]

*with the bat

[@Jkend199]

Reality check... Defense doesn't get you the big bucks, it never has... HITTING is what get you the big bucks, it always has been. Dansby Swanson is a league avg hitter, on a good day... that is the truth... on a bad day he is a below average hitter... and he just got superstar money, for 7 years... This was a stupid decision. Swanson is a 12-million-dollar player, if he hit better than maybe 20 million, but he doesn't... this is an overpay and it's going to look worse and worse year by year. I'm a Giants fan and we just did exactly the same thing with Chapman, and were gunna regret that just like you're going to regret this. league avg hitting (at best, most of the time below league avg. hitting...) is not worth 25-million 6 years... I DONT GIVE A SHIT WHAT HIS WAR IS, Dansby Swanson is not a good hitter, he is an average hitter at best, and below average hitter most of the time, just like Matt Chapman, both of which were bad deals their teams will regret.

[@SetupManCubs]

So, if Dansby drives in 80 runs and saves 20, that’s a total of 100 runs created. If Pete Alonso drives in 105 but loses 10 runs defensively, that’s 95 runs. Based on the numbers, Dansby is more valuable in that situation. But based on your metric, the defense doesn’t matter?

[@Jkend199]

@@SetupManCubs Dansby Swanson is gunna have 80 RBI's LMAO, oh man you're funny dude, tell me another. FYI Pete Alonso isn't as great as everyone thinks he is... He hits .220 and strikes out A LOT, he's also not good defensively... He's gunna get a superstar contract to be a DH... and whoever does it is going to regret that too.

[@antonio962]

italk is a clown, he talks 💩on other teams and players just so his channel can get views but no his Red Sox

[@Mark-ph5nh]

He is ok but not great, but to pay that much for 7 years is totally crazy

[@SetupManCubs]

You don’t think he’s a top 5 glove in baseball?

[@Jknows22]

I like Dansby, I do. But we are the DAMN Chicago "big market" Cubs. Forbid they act like it. So we have a 4war player at SS. Which is fine, if you have big boppers around him. Ya dont.. Therefore, Dansbys looking worse than he is. They're asking him to be the face of this team & he's not an exciting or good enough player to do that & i dont think thats his fualt. Dudes a baller he can play. Im glad we have him over scum like Correa. But please for the love of this team GET THIS MAN SOME HELP!!! Good content per usal setup 🫡

[@SetupManCubs]

Yes, that’s the biggest issue. We need a 7+ WAR guy so guys like Dansby don’t get unrealistic expectations put on them

[@Andrew_-nr7zt]

having seen both videos I do think that the Dansby contract isn't necessarily a bad signing I think it's fairly decent deal because we're mostly paying Dansby for his defense and granted while his offense slumped a bit during these past two seasons I think he will bounce back and be the player and possibly leader we need in this clubhouse and with Cody we're just hoping that he has a similar season to what he had in 2023 but if they trade him then idk what the plan is if we go into the 2025 season with the roster we have

[@thehappyhermit01]

He's worth it for his glove alone. Yeah, his hitting was bad the 1st half of the season, but he hit very well the 2nd half. The other guy's a drama queen.

[@JamesColestock]

Mentioning WAR and other don't believe your eyes derivative stats doesn't qualify as facts. That's like saying some girl is hotter than another because most bros say she is a soft 8 or similar nonsense. Not a fact..its like a FICO score. Not someone's true credit worthiness just a lazy take in the rating agency's best interest. So vacuous. So bad for baseball and for people who love and played it. People who play and coach the game mention the things that happen on the field--we should follow their lead and respect that practice. People deserve to be evaluated on their actual performance, the things they actually do on the field. There is no fair replacement for that...period. Disceptive "advanced" stats, politicized awards, other lackluster deals, etc., are not the best way to assess the "badness" of a contract. Perhaps it would be a good contract if another team would be happy to assume it.. Or we could use opportunity cost. What else could the Cubs do with close to 30 mil. Would whatever that is be better? Could we replace 80% of Swanson's production for $750K? Or we could get into the actual measurables, the eye test, impact on goals, but both videos make it clear that there is no appetite to do that. So, we are left with inept fanboying or reductive stat du jouring. Nevertheless, I love your content and root for your success. I can do that and at the same time poo poo this particular take. Keep it up!

[@SetupManCubs]

Thanks for the comment, and thanks for watching. I wanted to make sure to respond since you took the time to be constructive about your argument. But literally, the only stat that matters is WAR. I don’t care what your batting average, slug, etc is. If you add wins to my team, that’s all that matters. PCA is a perfect example. He was an average offensive player, and for much of the year, he was horrible at the plate. But, because he play great D and ended up being an average offensive player at the end of the season, he had a solid WAR (based on the limited games he played). He will continue to be a 4-5+ WAR player even if he hits .250. Just like Dansby. Saving runs is just as valuable as creating them. Simple math. And, good luck telling a bank that your FICO score isn’t real lol 😂 🏦

[@JamesColestock]

Lol. Thank God for payday loans! Appreciate you taking the time to explain your perspective further. You care about what Cubs fans think even when you hold a different view. Respect. WAR skeptics like myself don't see WAR as simple math (I have studied it) or as achieving or explaining what most people profess it does. WAR has gone through myriad changes over time because even practitioners see its shortcomings and can't seem to nail all the inputs/adjustments. For this, and countless other reasons, evaluating talent, value, what have you, remains a holistic endeavor. To me, that means taking that number with a grain and comparing it to other stats, my eyes, etc. For me, that is more fun and the nuance provokes conversation and allows me to consider each players unique contribution, including qualitative stuffs that makes watching 162 doable. I hope the pendulum swings back and we can get back to more of that at some point. We can agree on one thing for sure: Go Cubs Go!

[@uwupandaXD]

i can't lie the italk video kinda sucks. sure, i think swanson needs to be a 110 wRC+ guy to have a more fair value, but swanson's the top defensive shortstop in baseball via statcast, that's his value.

[@krishdasgupta7313]

Dansby contract is a crime

[@dalejarman2754]

It’s definitely a bad contract. What special skill are the Cubs paying for?

[@VegasLoungeAct]

Dansby is vastly overpaid. He's always been a defensive first SS that has consistently been a very, very average hitter throughout his career. Not sure what the Cubs thought they were getting. Oh, wait, I know.......a "good clubhouse" guy. 🙄

[@SetupManCubs]

Do you feel this way about PCA too?

[@VegasLoungeAct]

@SetupManCubs So far it's looking that way, but not nearly enough data on PCA to really tell yet.

[@SetupManCubs]

@@VegasLoungeAct I just think if we are so stoked about PCA, the question is why? 1. Defense 2. Speed 3. High ceiling on the bat If his bat never gets past a league average bat, you still have the defense and speed. And that’s only one more tool than Dansby. Meanwhile, Dansby also has the “clubhouse/leader” tool. So arguable that he and PCA are similar.

[@SetupManCubs]

PS: love me some PCA

[@VegasLoungeAct]

@@SetupManCubs I've never gotten that stoked on PCA. His defense and speed are great, but his bat has a long way to go. Never going to win anything having a team full of great defenders that can't hit very well.