The Real History Behind the 'Masters of the Air' Bombing Campaigns in WW2

[@Tld0026]

My uncle was a b17 pilot in England. He survived barely, came home and never got into a airplane again. Drove a RV everywhere. I never understood it but it was his service photos hanging on the wall that had me intrigued so today I fly planes for work and think about him often. There was a price paid by these men, even the ones that survived.

[@brucefreifeld4763]

Similar story-my Uncle flew 98 missions in the P47 Thunderbolt. He was terrified of heights thereafter-even living in a second floor apartment was too much.

[@galatians-2.20]

And I'm grateful to men like your uncle who paid that price for me and for you. God Bless America and Long live the King

[@andrewstevenson118]

When I was a kid I used to think "being in an a/c would be good because you could always bail out." Once I learned more I realised how horrific it was. The Lancaster rear gunner, for example, couldn't wear his chute in the turret. So if you need to bail out you need to crawl back, find your chute, find the small escape hatch. Jeez...

[@dabda8510]

I've heard of pilots of WW2 never every piloting another plane. And then there's those who flew until they couldn't get near the very end of the life. Like 10, 20 years ago, an ex WW2 US Navy pilot piloting a private plane crash landed his plane on the freeway in southern California when the engine started running very routh. I remember the short cilp of him being interviewed by local TV station about how he barely landed. Excited but didn't seem like one who just had a close brush with death. I'm sure he's passed on now but he obviously flew even after WW2.

[@richardsmith2684]

my fathers group was lined up for the mission take off,,very timed ,precise roll for each airplane,,,the first off was a new crew ,,mission one,,someones decsion,,,,they went ,climbed and a few hundred feet off the runway banked right ,,into the ground next to the runway,,,everything exploded and a huge black smoke,,column in front of the group watching,, the group commander came on ,told them to calm down,,do the normal take off over it,,my father took a photo as his airplane went over ,,,and the the smoke,,,,face that first thing on that days mission,,

[@Wheelgauge-bt7ox]

Grandfather flew in a B24 as a ball turret gunner and I will never forget the massive hole in his back from flak that ripped through his body. The stories and pictures of him at the bases I will never forget! Miss you and love you gramps❤

[@davidhollenshead4892]

That must have been before they started letting the ball turret gunner ride out the flack in the fuselage. The shortest airmen really got the short end of the stick on that one. A friends grandfather was also a ball turret gunner late in the war, who managed to shoot down a BF109 while getting back in the ball turret gunner, as well as "shooting down five locomotives, complete with boiler explosions". I can only hope that the crews of those locomotives died instantly... I also miss my grandfather, who served as a Front Line Field Surgeon in the US Army. I can't imagine how horrible it was for him, as an OB/GYN, trained to bring new life into the world and having to Euthanize a third of his patients. As he put it, "a third you can & should save", "a third you might be able to save", and "a third you shouldn't save for their & their families sake". When I asked about the latter, he said "A teenager who set off the mine he was digging up, no face, no eyes, no jaw, no hands, whatever could I do, whatever could I do"...

[@ajseastrand]

My grandfather was a ball turret and sometimes tail gunner in the 457th ( The Fireball Outfit ) He also had the scars from flak with the dark blue green were they couldn’t get it all. The flak jackets helped but weren’t a guarantee. Being in the fuselage also wasn’t really better concerning the flak according to him. Funny thing regarding the trains, he also commented on them as it was a big deal to score one.

[@Whimpy13]

@@davidhollenshead4892 Imho I think he could have been up in the fuselage because they could patch him up and he survived.

[@emitindustries8304]

I was lucky to get a ride in a B-17 (9-0-9),and I realized that you were in a large aluminum can, and in WWII, would be with hundreds of tons of gasoline and explosives sitting next to you. With the windows open, at 15,000+ feet, and unhappy people were shooting at you. In a tube made of thin aluminum. Try shooting BBs at a Coke can, and imagine that you're inside it. Dang!

[@tedseltman4919]

My grandfather was a tail gunner in a B24. His plane was hit somewhere above Italy on his 27th mission I think. Plane broke in 2, he was the only survivor. Broke his leg when he came down behind enemy lines but he was able to make it back across and get home. I can’t even imagine. Unfortunately almost all off these men are gone, I hope we can keep their stories alive.

[@jacobklinger4830]

My great uncle was a radio man in a B17. The only time, and the only thing he said about the war, was that people have no idea how horrifying it is to hear your friends falling 5 miles down and usually on fire. He said that they usually screamed out for their mothers. You could see that he always had it on his mind by how he would stare vacantly at nothing. That being said, he was a gentle and kind man. I miss him, and hope that he now has peace.

[@Traero]

Your grandfather sounds like a very wise and good man, may his soul rest in peace

[@richardsmith2684]

my father was also a radio op,,maybe they trained to gether at Scott A F base,,,jump training if possible to bail was "count to ten and pull the cord",,not a lot of chances in a sky full of airplanes,,flak etc,after surviving my time in Viet ,my father an i talked about losses and our mutual feelings about them,,,if the experience hadnt happened to both if us it would have really been not able to share or describe,,most veterans have it,,it cant be shared with those not involved,,just the way it is,,

[@left-hand-threaded]

Why make it up

[@atatterson6992]

Hear your friends falling? My apologies but you realize that is impossible right?

[@JeffCribbs]

Over the radio!!​@@atatterson6992

[@markladendorff4904]

My grandfather was a navigator on a B17. He was 19 and the oldest member of the crew was the Pilot who was 21.. absolutely wild.

[@peternewman7940]

Many - maybe most - were just kids, barely if at all out of their teens. Looking back to the same age, we were very young. But we were privileged to enjoy the freedom won by the lives they sacrificed on our behalf.

[@bradmarkell12167]

My granddad s were 23. Considered "old men". 😅

[@richardsmith2684]

my dads pilot,,"the best there was" was a 22 year old captain,,squadron leader was about 25,,,Major,,,the group commander was 34,,Col.

[@dabda8510]

@@richardsmith2684 Thing is these 22, 23 year old had far more actual experience versus 40 year old offivers with 20 year peace time service...

[@bawalmagisip1]

@@dabda8510Wouldn’t you be surprised if it were the other way around?

[@Lynne-28]

Deeply disturbing. My dad flew B-17s in this horrific war. 52 missions. No wonder he became alcoholic. Most certainly in order to SLEEP. He, like so many of his fellow flyers, was not allowed to grieve his traumas. Wasn’t “manly” to cry. May we never again allow such atrocities to besmirch Mother Earth and her children.

[@fluffybunnyslippers2505]

But, of course... we will..

[@Rich6Brew]

@@fluffybunnyslippers2505 I can't give your comment a like, but I do agree with you.

[@Voucher765]

B-17s and B-24s did most of the bombing raids in Europe especially in Romania to cut off German oil

[@davidhollenshead4892]

Agreed on all... During the war against Fascism, my grandfather was a Front-line Field Surgeon in the US Army, who had to euthanize a third of his patients. He drank a fifth of rye with a fellow veteran, who drank his own fifth, on my grandfathers Garwood speed boat while drifting in lake St. Clair, every night for three years after the war, before he could start living again. Neither of them could really swim...

[@Lynne-28]

@@davidhollenshead4892 ...and it’s highly possible that we, the offspring of these traumatized souls sadly carry on their agonies in our DNA. PEACE ON EARTH, PLEASE!🌎🌍🌏 ENOUGH UNNECESSARY, CENTURIES-OLD SUFFERINGS!

[@johnfenwick7641]

My uncle was a tail gunner in a B 17 Flying Fortress he was shot down in the raid on the ball bearing plants he spent the rest of the war as a POW I always loved him for his bravery and honor

[@greenies1491]

He’s damn lucky, they usually didn’t keep bombers as POWs

[@normannokes9513]

Wrong Place Wrong Time a stunning account of 305 Bomb Group. Misty UK weather upset departure plans with defensive grouping incomplete. Fighter protection at that time sadly limited. The German fighters enjoyed a turkey shoot plus 88mm flak. The author interviewed survivors ex pow's providing a detailed account crews struggling to survive and exit a stricken aircraft constantly under attack from 20mm cannon dire.

[@dukecraig2402]

​@@normannokes9513 There was absolutely nothing about attacking a B17 box that was a "Turkey shoot", people somehow or the other think that the number of bombers shot down on something like the Schweinfurt raid was all there was to it bit they're gravely mistaken, if you check into German fighter losses at the hands of the defensive gunners on those bombers, which no one ever does, you'll see that on average for every B17 shot down the defensive gunners shot down 2 German fighter's, that's confirmed kills not a figure based on claims after a debriefing, those are number's based on how many fighter's were confirmed shot down by the intelligence and claims board who sift through all the after action reports and claims turned in by gunners. Contrary to what people think attacking a B17 box was an absolutely horrifying prospect for a German fighter pilot, the defensive gunners were firing .50 cal machineguns that had an effective range of 600 to 1,000 yards depending on which position was firing and whether or not it had a lead computing gunsight like the ball and upper turrets did, and a box could easily be bringing a dozen of those gun positions, some with two guns, to bear on an attacking fighter and the gunners manning them were well trained, that's why for every B17 shot down there were two German fighter's shot down by them. This is from a letter written to a friend back on the Russian front from a German fighter pilot who'd been sent to the west to deal with the US bombing campaign; "Back there in the east dogfighting was kind of fun, sometimes you'd shoot them down and sometimes they'd shoot you down, but the first time I turned into a B17 box every sin I ever committed in my life flashed before my eyes, and what's worse than that is ordering these young men beneath me to do the same thing knowing that I'm probably ordering them to their death's", attacking B17 bomber boxes was by no stretch of the imagination something that was fun or easy for German fighter pilots, but even though they had a 2 to 1 kill to loss ratio one bomber had 10 men on it who'd either be killed or captured along with a B17 costing substantially more than two German fighter's which had two pilots who if not killed weren't bailing out over enemy territory in which case they be back in the fight, so from that standpoint the German fighter's come out on top, but that was little consolation to the two pilots who found themselves in a plane that was shot up and going down that even if not mortally wounded are faced with the prospect of finding out whether or not their parachute was going to work, fighter pilots tend to have a different view on parachutes than people who use them for sport. In the Pacific it was even far worse than that for the Japanese pilots attacking B29's, despite the mistaken belief by some that the B29's defensive guns were removed from a later variant because they didn't work well the fact is the computer augmented remote control defensive guns on the B29 actually gave it an 11 to 1 kill to loss ratio against enemy fighter's, that's higher than the P51's 10.2 to 1 kill to loss ratio that were assigned to escort the B29's after they got the 300 gallon drop tanks making escorting B29's to Japan possible, a post war USAAF report actually states that using the P51 to escort B29's was a waste of fighter resources that would have been better used elsewhere. Side note, the defensive guns were removed on the B29-B because it was produced especially for low level night bombing against Japan, since the Japanese had no night fighter program and worrying about B29 gunners shooting other B29's at night from mistaken identity the decision to remove their defensive guns was made, it wasn't to lighten up B29's so they could carry more bombs and have longer range on night mission's, that's another myth, they were first removed from B29's in theater used for night bombing while production dropped them for the night bombing variant simply because of the fear of friendly fire.

[@doomhippie6673]

@@greenies1491 "They" usually did.

[@StaticSkater]

​@@doomhippie6673Nazi sympathizer?

[@richardsmith2684]

My father flew 48 B17 missions as Radio Op.never flew again in his life,,"no odds left"

[@richardsmith2684]

thank you@@righteousisthelord180

[@jarrowmarrow]

My grandfather was in the RAF. He looked at things differently. he never talked about his war experience and called himself a parachute packer. He said very few people are heroes and hero’s during the war weren’t really appreciated. He blamed. The politicians bankers and captains of industry for the war and said Switzerland where the money was kept should have been the real target of the bombs.He said war is murder and nothing else. A very humble man he never associated the war with any honor or prestige. Most of his friends were killed in those raids.He saw war as a human failure.

[@MitchFerrera]

My great grandfather was the navigator of the b-17 Memphis belle but unfortunately I wasn’t old enough to hear his stories this show allows me to have a somewhat clear idea of what he and many others witnessed it’s incredible and terrifying

[@truthtriumphant]

Have you seen any of the documentaries regarding the Memphis Belle? They are a good watch. The Hollywood movie, Memphis Belle, is not too bad.

[@MitchFerrera]

@@truthtriumphant plenty still love to watch some here and there just wish I could’ve heard some first hand stories haha

[@PappyGunn]

That old thing is in the USAF museum in Dayton Ohio.

[@realwealthproperties5671]

Your great grandfather was DB Sweeney? 😂

[@brettcurtis5710]

Don't forget that the British Bomber Command alone suffered 44% casualties - 55,000 out of 125,000 aircrew who served, and then add the USAAF crews to that total as well - these British and Commonwealth airmen flew night after night (or day after day for the USAAF) and well-knew the terrible odds facing them! Yet they alone, out of all the Allied personnel involved in WW2, were denied a Campaign Star or even a clasp on their Air Crew Europe Star medal!

[@stinker43]

This is really not about the background behind "Masters of the Air" It is about the battle of Britain, followed by the night bombing by Bomber Command over Germany. There is little about the 8th Airforce bombing over Germany.

[@brianboyle2681]

Yes. And it’s important to make the distinction. Before the US was one power among many. The 8th airforce was the first projection of the US as a nascent superpower and the ‘worlds policeman’.

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

@stinker43 "There is little about the 8th Airforce bombing over Germany." For A Change. BTW I'm an American.

[@pdwcave]

Unashamedly 'Click bait'! However, this is a fairly balanced view on the effectiveness and moral dilemma of the allied bombing campaign. Unfortunately there is little about the men who flew over Germany and the cost in materiel and men. The 55,000 men of Bomber Command who died shows that Germany was not entirely defenceless.

[@stevenwiederholt7000]

@@pdwcave Click Bat, I've come to expect it. Not like t but expect it. A lot of the ideas behind strategic bombing came from Giulio Douhet, "The Command of the Air" Thing is we can look back with our 20/20 hindsight and see all the mistakes they made. Which makes me wonder What Mistakes Are We Making?

[@richardsmith2684]

nonsense,,the 8th was and is the most famous U S command in the history of the U S

[@tonnywildweasel8138]

Our freedom is so dearly payed by so many, in so many ways. I am a grateful Dutchman, and I Salute all of them. That we NEVER forget !!

[@spcflicker]

It seems as though almost everything is forgetting because we're trying to start doing it all over again. this time Switzerland wont even be neutral.

[@tonnywildweasel8138]

@@spcflicker : Yes, I'm afraid humanity is incredibly hard-nosed indeed..

[@DickWillis1]

Your countrymen saved my father’s life. He was shot down on 3/6/44, taken in and moved by way of the Comet Line through Holland and Belgium into France. He was repatriated on 8/6/44. The bravery of the Dutch and Belgian resistance made my life possible. Thank you!

[@SwornInvictus]

"freedom" sure

[@jleechadwick]

My dad went into the US Army Air Force after the first semester of his junior year of college. After going through training as a bombardier (he was 20 years old), he was sent to England and was stationed at Deenethorpe with the 401st BG in England. Their crews participated in many bombing missions. Their worst mission was on Politz, Germany in October 1944. That was one day after they participated in the second attack on Schweinfurt, Germany. The 401st were attacked by fighters and the flak was very heavy. Five crews didn't make it back to England, including my Dad's unit. His crew and one of the other crews flew to Sweden and were there for the rest of the war. The other 3 had been shot down. Only one of them had evidently had some guys get out by parachute. The rest of them probably were either killed when it crashed or ended up POWs. Those who saw the planes go down saw damage around the bomb bay area. Since that was my Dad's position, I suspect that my father was very lucky that he wasn't killed that day. A lot of our dads didn't talk much about what it was like on those bombing missions they went on. There were too many men that didn't make it back or were killed. Most of them were in their early 20s. Unlike a lot of others here, my father rejoined the USAF after he finished his engineering degree and worked as a civilian for a year. He served 28 years all together. He decided that he wanted to go into the Aeronautical Systems Division of the Air Force and they sent him to MIT to get training in aeronautical engineering, and they used his experience as a bombardier in WW2, as most of his projects involved precision bombing. Dad flew his entire time in the Air Force, especially afther he married and had a family, he wanted the extra money to support us.

[@dukecraig2402]

The two raids on Schweinfurt were in Aug and Oct of 43 and the 401st did not participate in them. The 401st primarily flew mission's in what was known as The Oil War, that's what the mission on Politz was about, it was the synthetic oil and fuel facility that you hear so much about that the Germans had because of their lack of access to crude oil reserves, the 401st only quit flying on petroleum facilities for a short time leading up to and just after D-Day in support of it, afterwards they went back to attacking petroleum facilities which is when the Politz raid happened in Oct of 44, they were flying B24's at the time and is what the 5 bombers that diverted to Sweden were.

[@dlbdlb3919]

@@dukecraig2402 , your dad murdered children

[@DustyR-bn2ci]

My Dad’s cousin was top gunner on a B-17. He got shot down in January 1944. No one back of the bomb bay survived. Everyone in front of the bomb bay survived except the co-pilot who is MIA to this day. He wouldn’t talk about it at all.

[@cutindu]

Almost 80 years after the end of the WW2 in Germany we still struggle with the bombs. In 2022 there were found 1443 bombs (2021: 2135) only in Northrhine-Westfalia. Because bombs with acid detonators are particularly dangerous, all bombs have to be defused on the day they are found. All residents within a one kilometer radius of the site must be evacuated before defusing can begin. Most of the time the detonator can be removed, if it is too dangerous it has to be blown up. Already this year, 3 bombs were found in my hometown of Duisburg, not far from my apartment. I don't know how often I crossed the place, where two of them were found...

[@clockdva20]

The Legacy for most of the Major German Cities and their surround ereas are still tons of un-exploded Bombs that now heading towards 80 years old , thus now become more and more unstable and harder to make safe.as someone now living in Hamburg since 2009 these left overs from the war are still an everyday danger especially when it comes to constrution projects any new building programs have to go through a proccess to risk access the chances of them finding un-exploded bombs deep in the soft ground the City is built on. Someone once told me here in Hamburg that I would take over 1000 + to find every single bomb. Most build sites have specialist teams based on site just in case they discover such items. Hamburg was bombed several times even after the Firestorm. By the end of the War 60% of city was gone and over 50.000 estimated dead though the true fugure was proberly higher , with refugess flooding in from the Eastern German states as the Russians advanced. Lots of the Historic city was rebuilt over the following decades. But you live with the scars that this city still carries in the from of the modern building that replaced what could not be saved . I happen to live in one of the surviving building from that period and you can still in some this aparment block see the cracks and the rebuilding that took place after the war. The fact that everything behind our street was built after the War show just how much was distroyed also because this erea was targeted as the drop point because the flight path leads directly to the Habor and the Ship and the U-Boat factories. As someone born in the industrial Middlands in the UK I grew up with the British version and the legacy of the Blitz and Coventry. But never the less it was a very somber feeling visting the Ruins of the Cathedral here in Hamburg the first time now a monument for Peace and twined with the Catherdral in Coventry. Also having talked or seen the many Documentries on the Hamburg bombs with first hand accounts of those few that are still alive since it was 75 years in 2023 since the Bombings of 1943. Of course all wars are horrors what is right and wrongs goses out of the window. Was it justified of course and I do not no any German who would say other than that. It ended the Nazi party and allowed people hopfully to build a better world, even if currently with a War in the east and the rise of nationlist polotics across the world again things look a little shaky again. We just have to pray that such events never happen on such a large scale with the horrors in Weapons that the major powers now have to play with.

[@philipeoverton]

Yes, an unexploded bomb was dealt with just this week in Plymouth, England. As stated in this documentary: "Civilians are the greatest casualties of modern warfare."

[@robtebay2]

My Dad piloted Halifax bombers in 10 Sqdn Bomber Command for over 1500 hours, often flying deep into Germany. Dad was awarded the DFC for sustained action against the enemy. He and his crew were demobbed, and the very next time his plane went on ops, it failed to return, its entire crew lost in action. Very sad, yet incredibly fortunate for my father.

[@PappyGunn]

If there is a story worse than the Bloody 100th, it is the story of the Canadian bomber Group that the Canadian government insisted be formed. At the time, not quite enough experience and leadership. Lots of guts, but lots of losses. Flying Halifaxes mostly at the beginnig. We knew some of these guys, one had done a couple of tours in Pathfinders. I hope some day Great Britian or Canada get off thier asses and produce a series to remember them. The RAF had a couple of Schweinfurt moments that are just apalling.

[@dukecraig2402]

​@@PappyGunn They had mission's that were far worse than the 8th Air Force's mission's on Schweinfurt with percentages of losses of over 40%, it's because of them that they stopped daylight bombing. The RAF bombers just couldn't protect themselves with their .303 guns and only having a few positions of them at that, for the life of me I will never understand why the British bomber designers thought that a .30 caliber anti personnel round would be able to protect a bomber, they were the designers of war machines and should very well have known better than to think that a cartridge barely up to the task of shooting down fabric covered wooden biplanes that also were armed with .30 caliber guns in WW1 would be able to defend bombers from all metal fighter's with cannons moving at about 3 times the speed of WW1 aircraft, if the speed of enemy aircraft increases then the range guns needed to have to shoot at them also must increase, along with the cannons giving them greater effective range means there's another reason you have to up your game when it comes to range, as a result of them selecting a .30 caliber anti personnel cartridge for their defensive guns which have an effective range of 400 yards, and that's being generous, the German fighter pilots quickly learned that they could start their attack at the 700 yard effective range of their cannons and break off at around 400 yards and they were virtually immune to the defensive fire from the RAF bombers, after bombing raids where 40% and over of Wellington bombers sent out didn't come back they immediately ceased daylight bombing and started night raids, the worst damage inflicted on 8th Air Force bombers which was the 2nd Schweinfurt raid only produced a 26% loss but that included something like 17 aircraft that returned but were damaged so badly they were scrapped, the 40% and over RAF losses during daylight bombing were bombers that didn't even return, with number's like that they absolutely had to quit daylight bombing or they'd have run out of crew's if not bombers first, and in not too long. The US bombers were far better at protecting themselves because of their use of a cartridge that was not just anti personnel but also anti material, the .50 caliber guns not only had the same range that the German fighter's guns did but also two of those gun positions, both of which were twin guns, had a lead computing gunsight along with the twin tail guns that had a 1,000 yard effective range, a tightly grouped B17 box was a horrifying prospect to attack for a German fighter pilot, one who sent to the west to deal with the US bombing campaign wrote in a letter to a friend of his back in the east; "Dogfighting back there in the east was kind of fun, sometimes you'd shoot them down and sometimes they'd shoot you down, but the first time I turned into a B17 box every sin I ever committed in my life flashed before my eyes, and what's worse than that is ordering these young men beneath me to do the same thing knowing full well I may be ordering them to their death's".

[@christopherkennedy1807]

My uncle died on his first mission in a Lancaster

[@LynneConnolly]

My Dad flew in Halifax bombers on the 1000 bomber raids. He was a radio operator. Stationed in Yorkshire, in that cluster of air stations, part of 102 Squadron. A sergeant, because all members of the flight teams were sergeants and up. Going through his papers, I found a tiny picture of him in uniform, the only one I've ever seen. He was 18. He kept the bullet that zoomed past him and embedded itself into his radio. After the war, he refused to fly again because he'd used up his luck, he said. Britain bombed at night, the US teams during the day. They kept themselves going with uppers and downers, issued by the RAF and USAAF. He used to show us his appendix scar and say it saved his life, because he was in hospital with peritonitis when his crew went out and got shot down. I tried to check that, but it's pretty much impossible.

[@familyfishing4865]

My great nans house on portsdown hill, Portsmouth still stood after the houses either side had been struck directly by German bombs during the blitz. She used to make ammunition for the war effort. This was the house that I used to visit as a child

[@bayman49]

2 of my uncles, they were brothers, gunners in B-17's . Both shot down over Germany. Both survived but were captured and were POW's.. both made it back home after the war..amazing..

[@stephenhenning2538]

My Nan's Cousin was a Pathfinder with 96sqn RAF (Bourne Cambs). He was killed on a Hamburg raid; shot down by a Night Fighter.

[@Laughingjedi]

That aviation historian Victoria Taylor is so incredibly beautiful and intelligent.

[@nancysmith38]

My dad was a B17 pilot. Did 35 instead of 25 missions- later part of 1944. I sent his bombing mission list and bomb group to a young man working on this series.

[@rogerbourke5570]

My grandfather was a ball-turret gunner in a B17 flying from East Anglia in 1943-44. This was a surprise to us because he told grandma he was in the Navy. He died from cancer last week. At least now he is flying with Jesus. Well, we hope anyway.

[@PatFoteff]

I read the book at least three or more times. The thought of 25 and then 35 missions to complete your tour of duty, must have seemed an impossible task, to those brave and talented men. Thank you for helping save the world from fascism.

[@PappyGunn]

The crazy thing is that some British had 50+ bomber missions. Pathfinders especially. Crazy SOBs that were volunteering at that point. We knew one, with a DFC. Travel agent. Nice guy.

[@lesliemaitland3551]

Hi, Dan. An episode on the role of Bomber Command in North Africa would be interesting. Thanks for an interesting episode. My dad was never reconciled to his role in Bomber Command

[@claytoncelander6263]

As a good friend told a story about his uncle who jumped out of a b17 with no parachute after it got shot down over France. Landed through a glass train station roof and somehow survived after breaking almost every bone. Apparently there is a plaque to him outside the station today

[@jeffcauhape6880]

My late father was a co-pilot on a B-17 flying out of the Midlands. He told me that during the worst part of the war, the odds of getting killed on every mission was 50%. With those odds, you can see that the probability of still being alive after 7 missions is less than 1%. At 26 years of age, he was the oldest man on the crew, and likely the "adult supervision". From the stories he told me of goings on their way back from missions, they could have used a bit more supervision.

[@davidperdue7506]

My father was a Navigator on B-17's with the 100th Bomb Group. I think the the pictures of what sort of devastation the bombers left in their wake is probably why he rarely talked about actual missions.

[@stevedavis9466]

what squadron and plane was he on? Mine was on the Piccadilly Lily of the 351SQ/100th BG.

[@Paul-q3q6u]

Thorpe Abbotts?? Lucky to be here with that groups reputation

[@stevedavis9466]

@@Paul-q3q6u 57 of the original 350 combat crew reached 25 missions

[@staciemilmeister151]

My great uncle was a Navigator on B-17th with the 100th Bomb Group. I wonder if they knew each other. He was shot down over the Frisian Islands on 12/31/44, they were bombing an oil refinery in Hamburg. I cannot imagine the courage that it would take.. to do what your dad, my great uncle and all of those men and women did. I thank you both for his service.

[@stevedavis9466]

@@staciemilmeister151 They probably did not know each other. My Dad was with the original 100th BG that came in JUN,'43 to Thorpe Abbotts. He completed his 25 missions on OCT4, '43 and was a gunnery instructor until DCE,'43. They then sent him back to the states for R&R and then he decided to go back into combat. He went to the 15th AF/ 463rd BG out of Foggia , Italy in Sept '44 and started flying combat missions in OCT, '44 and flew an additional 29 combat missions until mid '45..

[@Maverick_682]

My grandfather was a B17 pilot in WW2. My grandmother was a navigator. My great uncle was a ball turret gunner. My 3rd cousin was a tail gunner. My great aunt was a bombardier. All in the same bomber.

[@shaggybiasi8109]

i could listen to victoria talk about planes all day long

[@jladdyost]

People always ask why war factories weren't pinpointed. Bombing high enough to avoid anti-aircraft fire was just not that accurate in the 1940s.

[@robashton8606]

Why didn't we have history teachers like Victoria Taylor when I was at school? I enjoyed history, but she would have had my undivided attention.

[@jbwads2001]

Creeper

[@thethirdman225]

🙄

[@abnurtharn2927]

@robashton8606 She isn´t exactly hard on the eyes either.

[@smokymcpot5917]

Ikr. My history teacher look like one of the golden girls. Lol

[@markwilliams8369]

Yes, but I doubt you'd have learnt anything 😆

[@dalj4362]

HBO should have made the series Masters of the Air. Especially when you compare it to the Band of Brothers.

[@rossgodding9676]

My Father was a Lancaster Pilot in the RCAF in 6th group. They were refused their campaign medals at the end of the war by the Canadian Parliment who labeled Bomber command as war criminals. The leadership was the ones who directed the course of the war and choices. I don't apologize for the bombing campaign. It by its self with its destruction didn't directly cause the winning of the war. However the resources Germany and its allies had to direct to defense of their homelands , the withdrawal of AA and fighter squadrons undoubtably hastened the defeat of their forces in every theatre whether the Russian front or Mediterranean or Western Europe. The loss of life and property destruction is lamentable further evidence you shouldn't start wars, war is hell.

[@kariannecrysler640]

It’s important to be as critical of ourselves as we are of others. It’s how we learn & improve. Excellent coverage here thank you.

[@Scottkellyandthedynamics]

2 great uncles flew bombers for the RAF. They both survived the war. But, were obviously changed forever.

[@sancho-4457]

did they flew mosquitos? i'm from Germany and my grandmother told me about an air raid an her hometown merzig in southwest Germany flown in an mosquito. interesting detail that a twelve year old girl remembered the type of aircraft.

[@OldmanGamerYT]

Congrats on passing 1M subs!

[@looneylozzer]

My grandfather 2as a pilot in ww1 and their life expectancy was 6hrs! He survived but many didn't.

[@hannibalb8276]

Was great to see Max Hasting in this, his books Armageddon and Overlord were huge getting me into history, and specifically ww2 history. What a legend.

[@Dickie72002]

It is criminal this channel doesn’t have more subs. Great work as always History Hit!

[@dukecraig2402]

They're not that accurate, for example at one point they claim that by mid 42 the 8th Air Force was "regularly" flying mission's against Germany, not necessarily in Germany itself but German facilities in occupied Europe. This is far from true, when the 8th Air Force was formed in January of 1942 it had 7 personnel and no aircraft, it literally needed to be built, by the middle of 42 the first members had arrived in England but they had no aircraft of their own, at first they generally rode along with RAF crews to learn the lay of the land until they eventually started borrowing American built RAF bombers like the Lockheed Dakota to fly along with RAF bombers taking the lead, the first B17's didn't arrive until late in 42, it took until the middle of 43 before US crews with their own aircraft were in England in enough number's to start flying their own mission's in ernest.

[@andrewharrison7767]

@@dukecraig2402 glad I'm not the only who saw just how inaccurate this was - although why reference the series? This had zero connection to the series & was basically an idiots guide to bombing command's role in ww2

[@dukecraig2402]

@@andrewharrison7767 They mentioned it because it's hot right now being in the middle of the series premiere and all, a lot of KZbin channels are using the title of the series to get people's attention. The vast majority of these channels that cover the 8th Air Force's bombing campaign do nothing but repeat all the age old myths about them and the B17 basically because they use each other as source material or go back to the original sources of the myths which was poorly researched books written in the year's after the war. There's a channel called WW II US Bombers that the creator is a volunteer at an air museum, as such he has access to every war time and post war USAAF report and document you could imagine and he shows them on screen with critical sentences from them highlighted that's his source information so there's no doubt whatsoever that the information is authentic and correct, for over a year now his videos have blown the lid off of so many common myths that typically get thrown around about the 8th and B17's that usually come from sources that people think are gospel, information like the true bomb load of 6,000 lbs that B17's carried on deep penetration mission's and not the 4,000 lbs myth that's so common, the true accuracy of the Norden bombsight and not the nonsense figures that get thrown around by supposed historians who include results from thing's like human error such as navigators flying entire formations to the wrong target resulting in a "zero bombs on target" average, even if the bombardiers absolutely plastered what they were actually aiming at, that gets factored into their math that they use the results from as their "proof" that it was inaccurate, but the biggest error in their math is including the results from when the Norden bombsight wasn't even used to aim bombs but instead the H2X ground scanning radar system was used especially in winter months when overcast skies prevented optical aiming, 66% of the bombs dropped by the 8th Air Force used the H2X system to aim them, which was needless to say far less accurate than optical aiming, but all those supposed experts include the results from using that system in their math when talking about the Norden bombsight's accuracy, I doubt they even know that the H2X system even existed because I've never heard any of the Norden bombsights detractors even mention it, of course maybe some do know about it they just don't want to talk about it because of a bias they have that goes along with a personal desire to do nothing but constantly bash the 8th Air Force. In all fairness to the H2X system even it shouldn't have all of it's results rolled up and hung around it's neck, early on while the crews were learning to use it there was plenty of human error and things like equipment error that can detract from it's accuracy, it wasn't as accurate as optical bombing but it's results weren't too bad and it sure beat dropping all those bombs unarmed into the English Channel on the way back because bombardiers couldn't even see an entire city do to overcast skies, which is the reason the 8th started using the H2X system in the fall of 43, too many formations had to turn around full of bombs because they couldn't see their target after going through everything they had to just to get to the there. His channel has some real eye opening information some of which is just astounding, like the fact that the computer augmented remote control defensive guns on the B29 were so good they actually gave the B29 an 11 to 1 kill to loss ratio against enemy fighter's, that's better than the P51's 10.2 to 1 kill to loss ratio that was used to escort the B29's, after the war a USAAF report actually said that because of the effectiveness of the B29's defensive guns the use of P51's to escort them was a waste of fighter resources that would have been better used elsewhere.

[@leecooper8589]

In all fairness he actually states that the US was regularly flying sorties over Germany by mid 42. A sortie is a single aircraft flight, not at all meant to represent the sort of missions on the scale that would be seen later. More an expression that within months of the US joining the War in Europe, the 8th was finding it's feet in operating from bases in the UK a very long way from home. By August the 8th had enough B17s and the infrastructure in place to do regular missions over occupied Europe and Germany. That's an achievement in itself. Oh and if we are going to indulge in pedantry, I should probably point out that initial missions with US built RAF Bombers would have been Lockheed Bostons, not Lockheed Dakotas which were Douglas designs not Lockheed and not even Bombers😂

[@AnthonyBrown12324]

@@leecooper8589 Douglas Bostons or A20 in US terms

[@keithwolstenholme4238]

My mother’s cousin Fritz was a bombardier on a B17. He was killed when his plane was shot down over Hamburg.

[@adamsjerome1839]

My dad navigated Lancaster's. He guided his" kite"to Dresden and dropped incendiary munitions. He wept when he infrequently recalled Dresden. A young man guiding his Lanc to kill thousands. RIP dad, hope your bees are doing well.

[@tiborjedovszky980]

And the brain of Dresden's bombing, the butcher Arthur Harris has a monument in London.

[@dannwhitehead6193]

I went inside a b17 at the Palm Springs air museum while it was in the hangar. Something that struck me as off was how basic the instrument panel was. Just a few gauges mounted in plywood. One of the docents said they build them assuming they were not coming back. Pretty sobering perspective.

[@gimpycanuck2]

Just like the Sherman tank.

[@draufganger620]

My paternal grandfather was a b-17 pilot with the 96th bombardment group. Shot own on his 9th mission near Celle in 1944. Was freed after 10 months and 9 days as a POW following time at stalag Luft 3 and stalag 7a in mooseberg. Side note: my maternal grandfather was a flak gunner in France. Told me he pissed his pants as a young teenager the first time he heard the thunderous roar of countless bombers approaching from the north. The family “joke”" was always that grandpa shot down my other grandpa. Both lived to ripe old ages

[@benelsdon4326]

Dan, the reason you could do this documentary in English is the very reason this was necessary. It’s very easy to look back and condemn those who, at the time were fighting for their lives. If actions then, looked like an inappropriate use of force,when faced with an enemy who had no regard to the regulations of war. It’s the only way to victory. Those men and women served the nation with pride.

[@pherbst502]

The job of a historian isn't to write monuments it's to write history. Honest appraisals of the efficacy of the expenditures of the over 100,000 Airmen that died in both the United States and UK Air Forces is prudent and required. Wide scale area bombing was not the magic pill it was sold as by the likes of Arthur Harris and Ira Eaker. There were a great many lives wasted by the time they figured out oil was Germany's weakpoint. We don't do future warriors any favors by not critically examining how their lives were wasted in the past. Sincerly, a US Air Force Veteran.

[@napoleonhochiminh]

@@pherbst502 very well said. History should be look back with facts

[@thethirdman225]

@@pherbst502 It wasn’t that it took them a long time to realise that oil was a priority target. It took a long time for the capability to be available to carry out those attacks.

[@pherbst502]

@@thethirdman225 if that were true they wouldn't have wasted thousands of lives going after ball bearing plants (which were functional again with days) and submarine pins (which were never harmed due to the massive concrete protection) with the very same aircraft that were later sent to oil refineries. Albert Speer said as much as do most histories of the 8th. The United States clung to the idea of the unprotected bomber stream far longer than was indicated.

[@willywonka6487]

the idea that everyone would be speaking german now is such an utter delusional propaganda line that betrays a complete lack of understanding how large and complex the world is

[@anti-Russia-sigma]

The title is wrong.A better question to “Had it worked?”=“What else could have worked?”

[@michaelw2288]

The strategic bombing campaign had some impact on German arms production , causing delays to major operations. The biggest impact was the quantity of military resources devoted to " Defense of the Reich". Over 1million men, tens of thousands of artilliary pieces, thousands of aircraft and pilots were kept busy, not fighting on the Eastern Front. In 1943/44, about 40% of military resources were aimed upwards, not Eastwards.

[@eslp7627]

It says in Coventry: "They have all sinned and fall short of His glory". This really touched me: if we haven't learnt time and time again, it's because we're all sinners... And we simply fall short...

[@carlosspiceyweiner3305]

My great uncle flew the F-5 (PR) Lighting over Europe, he had copies of some of the BDA missions he flew. It was shocking how much damage was done around the target.

[@ArthurWright-uv4ww]

The lack of German aircraft over the beaches on D-Day was a testament to the success of the air war, though at a big cost in human life.

[@gailcarey3597]

My father was Operations Officer under Buck Clevan for the 100th. He piloted Durations Plus Six on the mission to Kiel, Germany. The ship mushed out. He landed it intact in the North Sea. Only three survived because it sank so fast. Danish fishermen rescued he and the two airmen. When they docked the German officer greeted my father by name and said they were waiting for him. The German intelligence was incredible and frightening. My father suffered three years in Stalag Luft III and survived the March from Mooseburg. It is crushing that Hitler’s Jewish Solution didn’t die with him.

[@Foontflaky]

"Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind"...

[@mygremlin1]

I read the book "Masters of the Sky". What horror these poor souls had to deal with........

[@bradmarkell12167]

Except in the series, the men are whimpering crybabies. In real life, they suffered like men

[@Magyarmeister]

I am so angry and disillusioned seeing this. The world is walking into what could very well be the end of us all if saner minds don't prevail. The thought causes me no end of pain.

[@fotograf736]

Just read the comments to see not much has changed.

[@Hillbilly001]

Everytime I see stuff about those fellows that fought those things, makes me glad I grew up to be Infantry. Nope. Better to have a hole in the ground. One can't hide from incoming up there. I was a US Army Ranger and people said I was crazy, those guys were crazy...... crazy brave. Cheers from Tennessee

[@Crashed131963]

I think the Navy was the safest place . Not counting subs .

[@richardvernon317]

@@Crashed131963 Don't say that to the US Navy guys who were fighting in the Solomons campaign. They lost 2 Sailors for every grunt killed on land.

[@Crashed131963]

@@richardvernon317 Your right ,I did not know that . Land soldiers hand 2X more wounded .

[@Doc.Holiday]

The USAAC did daylight precision bombing of strategic manufacturing. The indiscriminate civilian carpet bombing was conducted by GERMANY AND ENGLAND. England bombed primarily at night when losses were reduced but precision bombing wasn’t feasible. They carpet bombed at night using approximate dead reckoning navigation to time the release of their bomb loads over broad population centers. Germans used the same on England and also Buzz Bombs and V Rockets that were totally indiscriminate.

[@nickdanger3802]

"As the Luftwaffe encountered more Allied heavy bomber raids, it became apparent that great increases in defensive fighter firepower were needed, especially against the even more heavily armed American bombers. This dynamic led to the development of ever more heavily armed sub-types of fighters, including some Focke-Wulf 190s with six 20 mm cannon, the most ever mounted in a German single-engine fighter (Dill 2015, 50-4). This sub-type entered service concurrently with the most powerful weapon used by German fighters during the war, the 210 mm rocket mortar, which was used in significant numbers from July 1943 onwards both on the Western Front and in the Mediterranean, but not in the East (Forsyth 2016b, 53-7). The ultimate result of these developments, focused on the needs of defence against strategic bombing, was that the aircraft types retained on the Eastern front were ever more poorly armed in comparison to those in the West. Just 15% of Luftwaffe aircraft guns were allocated to the East by January 1944 (Table 4), a much lower proportion that the 34% of combat aircraft allocated to this theatre (Table 2). While the desperate German attempts to develop technology to confront Allied pressure have been noted in the literature (van Creveld 2011, 116-7), as has the German tendency to use older aircraft in the East (O’Brien 2015: 65, 291). What has not been sufficiently emphasised is that these aircraft possessed considerably less firepower, on average, as demonstrated here." page 15 How were German air force resources distributed between different fronts in the years 1941 to 1943 pdf

[@kennethvenezia4400]

Well, that was very uplifting 😢

[@brad6576]

Victoria Taylor is smokin beautiful! Best looking historian I have ever seen!

[@drgondog]

I enjoyed the presentation. That said, the role of American airpower in both drawing out the Luftwaffe to destroy it with fighter escort and attacking critical industrial targets was understated. The sacrifices of both Bomber Command and US Strategic Air Forces to ensure defeat of Germany IMO were worth the results. As to the question. "did the onslaught from the air actually work" to destroy the enemy industrial base"? Was airpower alone sufficient to defeat the Axis? Not in Europe, but ultimately Yes. Did airpower end the Axis ability to continue fighting? Ask the Japanese.

[@lyndoncmp5751]

Yes but without ground and naval forces taking the islands where the B29s flew from in order to drop the atomic bombs well it couldn't have happened. 😉

[@grumblesa10]

Except that the Japanese had 500,000 troops in China and were STILL fighting, and wished to continue. It took a direct order from the Emperor for them to quit.

[@thethirdman225]

@@grumblesa10 Not really. The Red Army cleaned them out of Manchuria in a couple of weeks.

[@jonmulack4226]

@@grumblesa10 And Russia kicking there behinds on a second front

[@Idahoguy10157]

“The bomber will always get thru” was the prewar mantra of airpower

[@bigblue6917]

I always thought that claim was wrong headed.

[@Idahoguy10157]

@@bigblue6917 … prewar there wasn’t radar. Radar was new and experimental and their effect on aerial warfare was unknown. Also bombers were frequently faster and flew higher than fighters did. Which made for low chances of interception before bombing a city. Hugh Dowding created an integrated air defense system and didn’t advertise Britain now had one

[@jackwinemiller8358]

And the norden bomb site was accurate enough to drop bombs in a pickle barrel too, right lol🤣👍👍

[@klaus-peterborn1370]

@@jackwinemiller8358 yes sometimes they were able to hit the correct city.

[@orangelion03]

They had it rough before they even left the US. Almost 15,000 aircrew killed or missing in training. In training.

[@keithwolstenholme4238]

My father witnessed a dive bomber pilot die in training. They figured that the search lights blinded him as he dove into the ground.

[@twentyrothmans7308]

Something that's often overlooked.

[@WhocaresWhy44]

Kurt Vonnegut was never the same. Before Sirens of Titan, and Slaughterhouse 5 he tried being a crime reporter and covered Sports. He was disenchanted with that beat. "The damn horse jumped over the fence." Dresden focused Vonnegut.

[@drandana3661]

It's truly horrifying. Asking the question of whether it was right is the wrong question. It clearly wasn't, regardless of the options at the time. How we prevent it from happening again in our lifetimes or our children's lifetimes is the most important question. Nationalism is a dangerous weapon that is rarely wielded by the virtuous.

[@christophercrockett6912]

Vonnegut and my father both attended the same high school (Shortridge High) in Indianapolis. Vonnegut, an editor of the school's DAILY newspaper, wrote multiple articles about my Dad,a high school All-American football player (and apparently a huge social butterfly!) Later at a book signing in Indianapolis, I introduced myself to Mr. Vonnegut, and he asked me if I was related to Jim Crockett (my Dad); when I replied positively, he temporarily stopped signing books to tell me some personal stories about my Dad. I was blown away...

[@johnshawdocherty7594]

Can't wait to see this series love band of brothers

[@tripsaplenty1227]

Masters of the Air stinks. I'm disappointed, I love BoB and The Pacific.

[@samshepperrd]

In an interview of Arthur Harris, (available on KZbin) he said that one concern regarding bombing Dresden was that it's rail lines would be used not only to take German troops to the front but also evacuate them back to the rumored "alpine readout" in Bavaria that turned out not to exist.

[@tiborjedovszky980]

And this Arthur Harris the "butcher" has a monument in London...

[@samshepperrd]

@@tiborjedovszky980 The dedication to Arthur's monument was attended by a large crowd of protestors, mostly or all British who disagreed with the excessive destruction of the bombing he commanded over.

[@tiborjedovszky980]

Harris in the 20ies in Iraq did the same in smaller scale. When he took over the bomber command in 1942 said: the permanent carpet bombing will brake the Germans' backbone and I shall finish the war by spring 1944. Did he?

[@percyprune7548]

Proud to have contributed to the Sir Arthur Harris statue. The statue organisers stated that thanks to the publicity from protestors, the fund was raised in a fraction of the expected time and with a surplus.

[@fulcrum8583]

My grandmother was a teenage girl 17 years old when Dresden was first bombed in a night raid. Most survivors of this first night of bombing thought that after the devastation, no more bombing raids would come. My grandmother had the wits to leave the city after the first night of bombing. Had she not, I might not be here typing these lines. She died a few years ago and never was able to speak about that night. It's been utterly terrifying for the population, be they polish, dutch, british, german, japanese, or any other nation subjected to strategic bombing raids. There is no honor in mass-bombing civilians, no matter for what reason. Only shame.

[@doomhippie6673]

I agree. My mom was a little child in 1944, about 2 years old. She doesn't remember much of the war but she remembers the shaking walls of the cellar wars and the sound (she says the clatter) of the bombs leaving the bombers right over their house. She lived and still lives in the village of Flintbek, just south-east of Kiel, which was heavily bombed during WW2.

[@onenessbe9991]

There's actually no honor in killing another . No honor in killing anything . Full stop ! It was appalling what those civilians , and the troops suffered , and people are suffering every day on planet Earth ! To understand how we can be so stupid I look back at our tracks . I have some German DNA . It's seen from history that the world was fairly warlike .Germany , and much of the world accepted war as a fact of life . Humans are capable of appalling behavior . I'm just trying to say that it was considered kinda 'normal" to live in a time of war . Germans were good at war , and in those times it was considered an honorable occupation to be a soldier . The trouble with war is that it destroys life ! It destroys historic things . It destroys cultures , and we know that war is a terrible AND UNNECESSARY thing in a civilized society . Wars are always started for stupid reasons . Innocent people are the victims . Most people in Hitler's Germany had no idea of what was really going down . I've spoken to old folk who were there as children during the nazi period . They were aware that Hitler united Germany and there was food to eat . Most people have no idea of politics . They close their eyes to evil as long as it doesn't touch themselves personally. They are swept along by the collective society - just like a crowd of football supporters , and always , always , it is those psychopathic leaders like Hitler , Stalin , Putin , Trump , etc etc , who start trouble by demonizing a group of people . For Hitler it was the Jews , the communists , and any non-Aryan type . Currently in Europe refugee immigrants are the subject of right-wing hate groups . Trump uses the same tactic - it's the Mexicans or the Muslims , and on it goes . The Jews , having been victims of the Holocaust are now behaving like nazis towards the Palestinians whose land they took by war . The psychopathic leader harnesses the psychopathy of the general population. People are pissed off because life is so hard . The psycho leader gives them someone to blame and , bingo ! Violence follows ! The unstable nations of our world are usually unstable because of outside interference - colonialists wanting the riches / resources of that country . The British , Dutch , Germans , French , Spanish , and Portuguese all destabilised so much of the world in their efforts to gain wealth , and now we see some of those results with vast populations displaced by war , unrest , famine , elemental disasters . By starting the world wars Germany caused a huge escalation of military industry . Russia and America were sleeping bears that ; once aroused became mighty military industrial machines capable of world domination with their output . It persists today and is met by Asian military industrialization . The big three money earners are : Armaments , Oil , and Pharmaceuticals - although these are being challenged now by newer industries . If your business is making armaments to sell , well you're going to need some wars to create a demand . This is such a sad story for the beautiful human race . I suggest we turn back to the heart . Humans are capable of such love , such kindness , such creativity in art , agriculture , engineering , technology etc . We are absolutely amazing creatures when we get together in the spirit of love . Can we just be kind , share , love each other as we would be loved ? That's our next step . It's up to you and me . God is LOVE . My religion is LOVE .

[@jds6206]

Only the USA and Britain had the capacity to conduct Strategic aerial bombardment. Germany did NOT; Japan did NOT; Russia did NOT; Italy did NOT. Two nations who conducted successful war-shortening strategic bombing campaigns; four nations who could, at best, conduct tactical bombing IN SUPPORT OF their armies. . HUGELY different.....

[@johngregory4801]

In other words, FAFO.

[@RivetGardener]

And.......you conveniently forget the German air assault against the British in 1940? Their wholesale city bombing of British cities spawned the Strategic Bombing against Germany. Get your facts.

[@densnow4816]

The sacrifices of airmen depicted in “Masters” is the more impactful knowing how marginal the efficacy of each mission, let alone the moral qualms and consequences on civilians.

[@Andy_Babb]

Very, very true. You’re 100% correct. I had an uncle who was a navigator on a B-17. Really though it was the sacrifices of that entire generation. I had a number of uncles who fought, some didn’t return home. My grandfather was in the 9th infantry, field artillery division as a forward observer/scout and radio operator, two of the most dangerous jobs for a soldier to have, crossing enemy lines to radio back coordinates. He was in N. Africa, Sicily/Mediterranean, France, Belgium and Germany. What those men (and women) did to literally defeat the seemingly unstoppable spread of hate and evil by an army of what must have seemed like super-humans. Thank god hitler didn’t have internet.

[@walterm140]

"As early as June 8, two days after D-day, Spaatz had taken advantage of Eisenhower's generously loose rein upon the strategic bombers to order both the Eighth and the Fifteenth air forces that the denial of oil to the enemy's armed forces should be their primary airm. German aircraft and armaments production were specified as secondary targets, with ball bearings to receive particular attention. Even with Ike's generosity, diverse calls upon the heavy bombers, including Crossbow raids as well as support of the ground forces restricted oil targets to 11.6 percent of the American strategic bombers' efforts in June, 17 percent in July, and 16.4 per cent in August. Yet this restricted effort cut the amount of aviation fuel produced for the Luftwaffe from 156,000 tons in May to 54,000 tons in June, 34,700 in July, 17,000 tons in August, and 10,000 tons in September--while the Luftwaffe had consumed 165,000 tons in April alone. Production of other petroleum products dropped in similar disastrous proportions...” --Eisenhower's Lieutenants, Russell Weigley, p. 379-80

[@easyegg9760]

⁠@@Andy_BabbI always think about that. How easily/quickly Hitler conquered France/Poland the British must’ve been looking for any way to get the soviets and America involved

[@Andy_Babb]

@@easyegg9760 Especially after Dunkirk. But yeah, these were these massive soldiers with weapons never seen before being used with ruthless efficiency. We do know that Churchill was all but begging for the US to get into the war. I have so much respect for the Brits of that time living through the Blitz.

[@atatterson6992]

Finally, after 80 years, we have the REAL history... My Lord

[@steveprocter6241]

Nice to see Victor Gregg briefly. I recommend a read of his autobiographies, especially 'Soldier, Spy. A Survivor's Tale' in which he recounts his Dresden experience in more detail.

[@Orillionn]

Dresden what happened to that city was a war crime....that was not industrial city it was all civilians an was overkill.

[@lindsaydrewe8219]

No- one comes out of a war with clean hands, anyone who believes otherwise is deluded

[@kcmayo215]

I’ve gotten to climb inside a b-17 and they’re far less spacious than it seems in movies. About as much extra space as a coffin.

[@staciemilmeister151]

Sadly it became a coffin for far too many, including my 25 year old Uncle, Arthur Cohen, he was a navigator with the bloody 100th. then he wasn't. :(

[@redbearracer]

It is so great to honor these heroes. I love the individual stories of the airman. A new book, Bomber Boys - WWII Flight Jacket Art by John Slemp does the same with over 100 jacket telling the stories as depicted by the art on the jackets. So cool!

[@fotograf736]

0) With this episode I have observed a palpable advancement in graphics and info-visuals. Great stuff. Keep getting better. As a humble advice, a subtitle for older speakers may help us better understand them. And in the main HH channel, a playlist that lists videos chronologically, otherwise the first video I come is one posted 2 months ago or something. 1) Tom Holland subscribes to Air Marshall Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harriss' (AH from now on) argument that Russians wanted Dresden bombed, Prof. Richard Overy disputes that in his book The Air War: 1939-1945 (definitive work and a must read for anybody interested in air war IMO) and writes that Dresden was not on a list of targets given by the Soviets to the Allies. Dresden is a hot potato nobody wants to claim, unlike Hamburg which AH defended to the full. 2) It's a glaring omission that AH's name was not mentioned in Churchill's victory day speech. It cannot be an oversight. Was Churchill angry at AH for luring him into a campaign of terror that would ultimately be his responsibility? Or did he support it fully, only to make a 180 to distance himself from the heavily criticised attacks on Dresden? His war history (The Second World War) has no answer why. AH, in his many interviews doesn't give an answer either. I would love to be filled in on this subject, the source is no doubt in people close to the two men. 3) There are many interviews with AH on KZbin. In his defense of the bombings, he takes full responsibility (except for Dresden, which he also blames on Russians), and is not evasive at all. He curiously mentions (Royal) Naval bombardments that caused many civilian deaths but were never discussed much. He also brings the example of English concentration camps in the Boer Wars, placing the bombing offensive in a continuum of war time necessary evil. He also mentions his times as a younger RAF pilot flying counter insurgency missions in the Middle East. Again, curiously he says he had never read Italian General Giulio Douhet, who is seen as the originator of the "win by air only" school of tought. Douhet had flown as a pilot in the Turko-Italian War of 1911 over Libya, part of the unit that dropped first bombs from an aeroplane in history, we don't know if he was the first. 4) There is an anectode, which is probably just an urban legend, I only remember it from a documentary and don't have any other sources for it, so feel free to debunk/or confirm(less chance). It goes like this: A young police officer stops AH driving fast to work. The police officer approcahes the car as the window rolls down: "Sir, please be careful, you almost killed a few people!" "Son, I kill thousands of people every day."

[@le13579]

James Holland, not Tom Holland?

[@fotograf736]

@@le13579 Yes, you are right. Two famous historians having the same surname is quite confusing. Thanks for the correction.

[@StevenJackson-re6qm]

They could, and should, have concentrated on more military targets. Oil, for example. Harris refused to release bombers from mass destruction raids and refused to countenance better precision…. Sorry, but Churchill was right to omit his name.

[@coachhannah2403]

The price of not sleeping in the mud. My father joined the Navy (CVE 57 Anzio) with the concept that if he had a bed, it would be dry, if he didn't have a bed, it no would longer matter. Taking all those highly trained me and throwing them away like that was tragic.

[@MaxExpatr]

I am here thanks to the French Fighters who hid my father for two months after his B-17 was shot down June 14 1944. The pilot, Russell Schroeder was killed when he tried to bail out. Captain Schroeder held the controls until all his crew were safely out. Every June 14 I remember him and his courage. I plan to thank him in Heaven. Vaya con Dios

[@mortaljorma69]

This channel is so awesome.

[@chochonubcake]

Good summary of the bombing of Nazi occupied Europe, even though it had a profound British bias (the dam buster raids were NOT the most famous bombing raids of the war - that would have to go to the atomic bomb raids on Japan, followed by the German raids on London, followed by Dresden, and then maybe the raids on the Ruhr.) Still got a lot out of it; the photos and interviews are heart breaking.

[@robertdelacruz2951]

Excellent documentary!

[@brazil-y2y]

I'm trying to find some info for my mum. She saw a doc years ago about a RAF leader who defied his superiors and was instrumental to winning WW2. Post WW2 he wasn't given credit and shipped to a post in America. Thanks if you know the mans name of this man.

[@Dr.Wumbo4]

It is so shocking to think that these men who fought and died were all likely younger than I am now

[@oneshotme]

I enjoyed your video and I gave it a Thumbs Up

[@christophercrockett6912]

My father was the pilot of a 15th Air Force B-24 who, on his 13th mission, was shot down over Graz, Austria On March 4, 1945. All crew members except his co-pilot (age 19) were lined up by local militia and machine-gunned to death. Both my father and the co-pilot were interred as P.O.W.s in Stalag 7, liberated on April 20, 1945, by Patton's 3rd Army. Two professors at the University of Graz researched the incident as a war crime, passing along their write-up to the International Court at the Hague. The one surviving instigator in Graz was incarcerated at The Hague, stood trial, and was convicted in 2020. A small monument to the crew's fate was placed in the field where the murders occurred.

[@ruscador1]

great to watch this history thanks for sharing

[@andrewcoulter323]

my old bosses father inlaw was an aircraft gunners assistant in Hamburg, he said the british lancaster bombers were the most frightening due to the amount of bombs they dropped..., he said the bombs would start hitting the ground and bombs were still coming out of the aircraft...

[@AnimalMother98]

Should make a documentary about the Siege of Malta

[@KaitainCPS]

My grandfather joined the USAAF during WW2 hoping to become either a pilot or a navigator. What he didn’t realize was that he had deuteranopia (red-green color blindness). This ended up keeping him off air crews and he was switched to planning and logistics in the Eighth Air Force, eventually going on to serve in the OSS (forerunner of the CIA). It’s a bit of a family curse, as both my brother and nephew have the same genetic issue, inherited from him. Yet given the terrible attrition rates of B-17 crews, it probably saved his life. If he’d had regular vision it’s a very real possibility that none of us would ever have been born.

[@thomasrotweiler]

When describing the RAF heavy bombers, was there any reason to omit the Handley-Page Halifax ? Over 6,000 of various variants were built and equipped numerous RAF and Royal Canadian Air Force squadrons. It remained operational until the end of the war in Europs.

[@Crashed131963]

Still just too short of a service in the war to be mentioned most of the time. Look how the B-24 does not get mentioned much and they more of those than the B-17.

[@richardvernon317]

@@Crashed131963 In Service before the Lancaster. Biggest Issue with the Early Halifax models were they were flying coffins. The aircraft had some really nasty vices, like going totally out of control if you lost an outboard engine.

[@mattjohnson7369]

Probably down to the Dambusters raid which made the Lancaster very famous and other things like Tallboy and Grandslam, also heard Bomber Harris wasn't particularly fond of it.

[@richardvernon317]

@@mattjohnson7369 Harris thought it was a crap aircraft (and he had the same opinion of the Hampden, when he was the AOC of No 5 Group who operated that aircraft). Stirling was crap as well. Neither of them could carry a 4000lb HC bomb, let alone anything bigger. Stirling couldn't fly very high and nor could the Merlin powered Halifax.

[@Fiasco3]

Bomber command knew exactly how much damage it would do. They set the bomb drops up to create the firestorm effect. They didn't have a nuke at the time, so this was their substitute.

[@Evulnation]

Watching this, the carnage of it, yet people think Israel are doing the most awful thing in the world right now even though they were the ones mercilessly attacked. People seem to forget history and how barbaric it used to be. Not even that long ago.

[@andrewstevenson118]

I only learned recently that "Chain Home" was outward facing. There was no RADAR over Britain. There was the Observer Corps and they did a great job.

[@jladdyost]

The Soviets, and now Putin, can hardly say that they single-handedly beat Hitler, when it was the UK and US who did all the aerial damage to German factories. Yes, they lost many times more people, but then they lost many millions of their own to Stalin eventually. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of trucks and jeeps that the US gave directly to the Soviets.

[@paulzeigler7616]

It's disgusting that one very twisted man could have resulted in so much destruction and human suffering.

[@ianjackson5150]

Captivating and magnificent.

[@richardsmith2684]

At the time my father flew,,mid to late 44,the mission tour in the 15th AF was 50,,my father received double credit for two high risk,,he landed in the water once,,damage to the plane at times and was flak hit,,never flew again in his life,,,he credited his pilot with saving them more then once,,

[@lasicaist]

Just in case no one knows. Germany did flatten many cities, for example Warsaw. See Warsaw photos post 1944 Warsaw Uprising

[@flywheel986]

The decision by Churchill to bomb Berlin heavily, was a stroke of genius. At the time of this decision, the Luftwaffe, had pretty much decimated the active RAF interceptor squadrons, and had completely disrupted aircraft production. Estimates were that Great Britain was within a few weeks of being without an effective counter to Germany's constant attacks. Hitler blew his easily blown stack when British bombs fell on Berlin. He redirected Goering from airfields and aircraft factories, to destroying London. That as they say was that.

[@ianlawrie919]

Phenomenal video. Dan Snow once again enlightening us with a superb presentation 👍👏👌

[@charlieboffin2432]

Thumbs down from me I can’t stand him

[@JackHedleyGale]

The meeting of the British POW and survivor of Dresden firestorm was incredibly impactful. Truly it’s only those who experience such devastation that appreciate war for what it is - needless extinction of innocent life. Rutger Bregman’s Humankind: A Hopeful History starts with a chapter on the efficacy of bombing and its impact on a nations moral. We in Britain still talk about “the Blitz spirit” in positive almost inspirational terms - it’s clear that bombing London only increased our civilian moral and bolstered war support. Why it was thought the same tactics would crush German spirit is beyond me. I can only think we arrogantly wanted to even the score and in that arrogance we lost our morality. As the proverb goes: an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

[@christopherwojtan750]

Its a short doc so I get glossing over a few facts. Namely it was an Italian general at the end of WW1 that proposed civil bombing as a means to break the spirit or will power of a nation. The strategic lessons learned at the end of the WW2 conflict showed this was not the case. In Japan, Germany, England, and USSR moral and quality of life was impacted but societal determination to win the war was drastically increased. It also sapped resources from bombing actual critical targets like infrastructure, manufacturing, and airfields. A major case point is the battle of Britain when the Germans had the British air force virtually on its knees and diverted huge amounts of resources to bomb London and other cities. The civilians suffered but it gave the RAF time to regroup and go on the offensive. The need for repeat attacks on sites also gave adversaries time to divest their major sites into distributed sites across the country including to the famous underground plants. The USAF during the Vietnam war employed many of these lessons learned from the era.

[@sih4143]

All as a result of that single wayward German bomber, is shocking how often such a small mistake can lead to such loss. From the Blitz all the way through to the Manhattan project. The "what if all sides retained a military target only agreement throughout" is a tough one thinking how the war could have progressed if that original bomber had not gotten lost.