DARK ANGELS ARE RUINED BY MEMES AND LOLCOWS. A RANT.

[@Wylding756]

I’m just getting to this now, but I like them the way they are because I view The Lion as showing Luther MERCY during the duel out of love. It’s been said by greater men than I that “The power of just mercy is that it belongs to the undeserving. It’s when mercy is least expected that it’s most potent-strong enough to break the cycle of victimization and victimhood, retribution and suffering. It has the power to heal the psychic harm and injuries that lead to aggression and violence, abuse of power…” I see The Lion as showing mercy to Luther even to the point of his own death as Luther’s last chance at redemption…NOT that Luther was more powerful. One cannot show mercy to someone more powerful. Mercy, by definition comes out of a place of overwhelming power.

[@AdamMichalMarkowski]

Luther if I remember correctly not only is just a Space Marine, but also incomplete one. He was too old for full process, same as Kor Phaeron. So yeah, he probably got about as much of Chaos Juice as Abaddon currently have.

[@Daemonik]

I remember back in the days before the HH series, when the suggestion was that the Lion deliberately kept the First back from being involved deeply in the Heresy - so he could see who won before declaring his koyalty to the winners.

[@troublemaker9899]

I actually think that the Blood Angels' and successors relationship to Khorne is an interesting dynamic. In my opinion, the Blood Angels are the legion that Khorne really wanted to control, but instead he got the World Eaters. I like to think he's not just coming after the Blood Angels because "woo hoo, more for Chaos", but because Khorne actually has a long-standing grudge over the fact that they just wont fall to him completely.

[@jamesespinosa690]

This is the correct take! Obviously to anyone with a brain. The Blood Angels were or would be Khornes desired traitor faction. The people who think Slaanesh is what the Blood Angels would fall too are smooth brains. ;)

[@RSBurgener]

In the original Angels of Death Codex, it says that "it is whispered" that Sanguinius's gestation pod was the only one actually penetrated by the powers of Chaos and that his wings are a mutation of the warp. It's also implying the red thirst and black rage are, you guessed it, the influence of Khorne. Not sure if that's still in print or anything, but that's the dark conspiracy theory about BA and its been there since the first codex. I'd say Darkness in the Blood has put that to rest, what with Mephiston's near death vision about the two angels, but it's still very interesting. BA have always been tied to Khorne.

[@SuperOmegaBerserker]

@@jamesespinosa690 not smooth brains, khorne doesn't obsess with drinking blood its spilling it with no other thoughts or excess of pain as that feeds slaanesh, what also feeds slaanesh is artistry and aspiration to be more, which defines the entire blood angels chapters on baal.

[@jamesespinosa690]

@@SuperOmegaBerserker Wrong. What defines the *Blood* Angels is their literal thirst for blood. And Khorne is literally the god of *BLOOD* is he not? This is literally why Ka'Bandha is obsessed with turning the blood angels. This is why in the Blood Angels HH book, Sanguinius and his sons have no problem stomping the Slaaneshi deamon, but they struggle greatly from the fight with Ka'Bandha, and are forever linked to him and his *Blood* God. The art and desire to be more is literally a distraction from their true nature. An aspiration to be more than the blood thirsty flesh deamons that they feel that they are deep down in their soul. This is why when they fall to the Black Rage they don't suddenly become obsessed with painting and art. They become obsessed with violently murdering people. There is a reason why they aren't called the "Art Angels". Furthermore "an aspiration to be more" is something that Tzentch prays upon. It's written here in my 3.5 Chaos Codex that Tzentch calls to those who want to be more than they are. Slaanesh is the god of excess. Not of art. So yes, it is a smooth brain take indeed.

[@jamesespinosa690]

@@SuperOmegaBerserker Oh and Mephiston literally opens a warp portal to which god realm? The mutherfucking *BLOOD GOD*.

[@jeoster7400]

I have to disagree on the scouring of the shire, it is the hobbits applying all they learned on their journey for the betterment of their own homeland, they fight their own battle for their own land, it's beautiful.

[@imperialguardsman9733]

In regards to the Scouring of the Shire, and following a Theologically Christian viewpoint, that battle is meant to represent the continued battle with ‘Sin’ after its defeat. For example, the Ring is sin, Frodo has to overcome that burden, Sam is the Christ figure walking the whole way with him and being the one to throw it into the fire, defeating sin. BUT, there is still a fight that we must struggle with even after sin’s defeat at the cross. That fight being illustrated by the Scouring. I hope I explained that well enough. 😅

[@jamesespinosa690]

It also shows that once Frodo and Sam save everyone else, they have to go save themselves. Tolkien's universe doesn't really have a "happy ending". They defeat one evil, and advance the age. But then they still have lesser evils to deal with. We see this in Tolkiens draft of the sequel series. The New Shadow I think it was called.

[@SoonGone]

Tolkien couldn't stand Allegory. There is very little hidden meaning in his writings. Lotr's is a story that stands solely on its own merits.

[@ScionoftheDreadwing]

The Death Korps of Krieg have the same problem of people thinking memes represent the lore. Which really sucks because they are one of my favorite armies and i hate it when people make stupid shovel jokes or think that the dkok are just suicidal maniacs.

[@Sephvion]

Really feeling the itch to make some 30K version of the Dark Angels, in 40K.

[@thorshammer8033]

Dark Angels have the best Heresy lore. The dramatic highs and lows, the Rangdan zenocide campaigns. The forbidden archotech weaponry. The orders within orders, honestly more historical Templar than the Black Templars.

[@joesheridan9451]

Best heresy lore? They were barely in it lol.

[@captainchaos5922]

The dark angels are my favorite because of the contrast between the Lion and Leman Russ: one is a Man pretending to be a Beast, the other a Beast pretending to be a Man.

[@northernexile]

I love the low key incel accusation put towards Leman Russ there xD

[@seaofenergy2765]

How is Leman Russ a beast? He has too much honour to be a beast surely. Angron is a beast, even before his change (even if it was because of the nails), Russ isnt...

[@jamesespinosa690]

@@seaofenergy2765 That's why he said "pretending to be a beast" mate.

[@seaofenergy2765]

@@jamesespinosa690 eh? The order they were said in seems a lot like Leman Russ is the one being described as a ' beast pretending to be a man'

[@critanalysis9546]

@@seaofenergy2765 true he mixed the order up but im pretty sure it’s the lion pretending to be the man not russ

[@hyakushiki9438]

Most 40k memes are so overdone. The shovel memes ruined Krieg for me. There’s so many examples across factions and sub-factions. As you said, and I loved it, “3 brain cells”

[@stevenschnepp576]

40k tends to attract the... dimmer wargamers.

[@drakor98]

Orks and the waagh is another one. To the point where the entire faction is seen as a joke.

[@lastsurvivingemothefox9797]

Alpharius told me they are chaos worshipers

[@SirBrasstion]

I always liked the ambiguity of who was traitor, if either. 'Dark Angels are traitors' was a misunderstanding of the Fallen lore that turned into a meme that was encouraged by GW that was overenthusiastically rejected in the books. You're right about the First being secretive because they know/have access to things from when they served the Emperor directly. The Dark Angels hunt the Fallen because of what they know, not because of the shame. 40k-era traitors are not counted among the Fallen. I disagree with the Lion and Luther being twins. The fall of Caliban to me was a disastrous misunderstanding between the planet and the fleet that grew apart, not a personal duel between figureheads. I also cringed a little at 'Magnus-level closet psyker' but I'll let it slide. I wish the relationship between the Unforgiven was highlighted more. The Dark Angels are the kind of pragmatists to play by the Codex Astartes whilst still operating like a legion. Making their aloof and suspicious nature a bearable price for their ability to work well with successor chapters. E.g. an Imperial commander only needs to haggle with one chapter master instead of five bickering with one another.

[@packe93]

Late on the cake, but definitely agree with the psyker thing. Just why? And kinda feels like a Marty Stue thing. I'm on the fence on the twin thing, kinda cool as then the first and last chapter would have twins, but at the same time you could just make it like someone else said, a mercy thing. Instead of being on an equal powerlevel.

[@Philtopy]

Oh man you are so right with them! I really dislike the DA because all this super secret secret stuff annoys me so much. On one hand they are supposed to fight like all other SM and on the other they let everything fall to pieces if they have the chance to get their hands on a fallen. GW should realise they can do both at the same time without fucking the Imperium and their allies twice over. Like you stated they should have a specialized group of DA who are handpicked to hunt Fallen. The other DA can do the normal SM stuff just fine. They do all that crying and secrecy about the fallen in a universe where literally everybody falls to chaos left and right. really annoying and flat. To me the current DA are more edgy and crybaby than even the raven guard.

[@eleanordawes8634]

Love the dark angels but making a primarch with more psyker power then the psyker primarch magnus takes away from the uniqueness of the thousand sons and magnus so in your idea Luther is a primarch that's not the best combat primarch but still very strong and has beyond magnus psyker powers that really annoys me but its your little fanfic so it doesn't matter what I think

[@drakor98]

I felt the same way when there was mention of Lion El'Johnsson and Luthor being twins. It sort of takes away from what makes Alpharius and Omegon unique.

[@filipess1916]

Conversely the Necrons have the Celestial Orrery if they wanted to snuff out the Sol system...

[@justicar5]

Thing is, Abaddon who has the blessings of the 4 etc, can give a Primarch a decent fight, gul vorbak can take on custodes and Horus went from Primarch to near Emps in power, so we have the precedent for Chaos levelling it's tools the hell up, especially on tainted worlds.

[@northernexile]

Perhaps. But Abaddon could give a fight sure, he'd still get killed by all Primarchs - that's why they NEVER let him actually face one in 1v1 combat in the new lore. Its in art sure, but if he comes across Guilliman its a fleeting exchange at best. Plus he's the main antagonist, not a good guy to use as an example as GW HAVE to prop him up in power level. Horus was a Primarch and we are told he only strikes down the Emperor because the Emperor is trying to bring him back to sense rather than fighting. As soon as the Emperor realizes Horus is too far gone he just obliterates him in an instant...so another bad example really. So no I don't believe an Astartes can defeat a Primarch under any circumstances. MAYBE a Custodes if they have surprise and Chaos powers on their side...and even then its a maybe.

[@justicar5]

@@northernexile I reference you to Argel Tal and his squad tearing apart Custodes in First Heretic (in fact that is the reason I mentioned Gal Vorbak, not all possessed as in lore they are more powerful). As to the Emp killing Horus, yea fair enough, Horus was beyond the other Primarchs but throwing down with a god was beyond him I don't think Luther could (or should) have won, but having him being powerful enough to bring a reasonable challenge is well within lore. Hell TT Abaddon beats Gulliman like he owes him money, but TT and lore haven't been on speaking terms for a long time. Apart from that I agree that DA need more going on than 'ohh look at us do super secret fallen things. I just thing yet another Primarch isn't the way to do it (Actually if Luther had been an Alpha psyker he could have been a major antagonist, as shown by how Malcador can mind choke Horus and endure being struck by Lorgar, add that to the gifts of probably Tzeentch, and you have someone who could ramp up for a short time to insane levels.)

[@darthvader1494]

1st & best chapter!

[@knightofcaliban146]

I second this

[@darko-man8549]

As a Legion, yes. As a chapter….no

[@knightofcaliban146]

@@darko-man8549 ASMODAI!

[@mykyzer23]

Yes! The Lion and Luther being Primarch twins is great head cannon

[@riolufan2249]

I liked the idea of Luthor being a Primarch, but i wouldn't go so far to make him a Psyker that could overshadow Magnus, that's the Thousand Sons player in me talking, but that's my bias

[@IvyMyki]

27 years of being a dark Angel fan here, my first army and still love them

[@Kydor]

That’s some fair devotion to Chaos right there

[@luckiller019]

the funnies part about this is that my homebrew (which started as 'what if DA but with BR colour scheme,' later I change it) has its veteran vanguard who just this. Robed MK10 with Grey knights helmets

[@stevenmcgrath5114]

Had I not discovered the BLACK TEMPLARS, I would have been most definitely a DARK ANGLES Player. I love the esthetic, lore, and I agree that they are the best overall legion of the Astartes. 💀☠️💀

[@grassynaga9092]

Luthor is one of the older soldiers. If I’m not mistaken Luthor and Lion’s fight was breaking the planet. Would it make more sense if he was possessed by a Daemon Prince? That and the actual description of his transformation leads me to believe he went through a similar process as the Custodes. It would also explain why he’s still alive and kicking in 42k. Custodes age slower than even Astartes do.

[@cloudst850]

I like their look now, but adding in more knightly units would be cool too. Having Luther be a primarch is a great idea, unfortunately I don't think they will do it.

[@jamesespinosa690]

No thanks. Luther being a Primarch sounds horrific. We already have twins. Luthers character is already pretty decent. They need to work on his motivation for turning a bit more. But the fact that he remains loyal is a very nice touch.

[@wutebear9656]

I started collecting Dark Angels first. And yes I was drawn to what supposed to be the knightly order of Space Marines. I was subsequently confused by Black Templars and Grey Knights, as well as the constant meme joking that I was playing a Chaos faction (bear in mind these gamers we're 1000 sons and World Eater players). Still collecting and defending the secretive green boys.

[@granttennis]

No no no no. I’m with you on most things, but on this I disagree. The scouring of the shire is a poignant tragedy for Frodo. He fought so hard to save the Shire only to find that it was forever changed anyway. It’s a leitmotif and representative of the soldiers returning from the First World War to an industry driven home.

[@kurthasedd7923]

I wouldn't change Dark Angels lore as much as clarify. The only thing I would change about Luther is make him a proper marine, it can be done with those advanced in age, like Leman Russ's original retinue undergoing the process, but there are more notable instances of just enhanced humans as space marines rather than true genetic marines, like Kor Phaeron. Other than that I would have the fight play out similarly, Luther and the Lion fight, but the Lion gets the upper hand and at the last the chaos gods decide to intervene and that's how the Lion is defeated, not technically beat, but both are knocked out and while Luther is left, the Lion is whisked away by the watchers in the dark. As for their hunt for the fallen, I wouldn't change that really either, but expand on it. Yes plenty of Blood Angels and Ultramarines have fallen to chaos, the worst guarded chapter secret has to be the Death Company and the Black Rage and Red Thirst, but for the Dark Angels this is something that has snowballed. It isn't about whether or not the Fallen exist, it's about the trail of dead loyalists in pursuit of it. Allies abandoned mid battle to pursue other made up objectives, the murder of allied soldiers, other marines and even inquisitors. The existence of the Fallen isn't a big deal anymore, there are only a few thousand left, but what would an inquisitor the even the high lords think if they knew the full account of how many they've killed to cover up the secret? That I think is the true reason, the Dark Angels still pursue the Fallen because it is their duty, but the Fallen are still a secret because it's not about the Fallen, it's about the cover up. For the things I actually would change, I would still have them keep up on gathering forbidden technology, but only of more specific kinds, such as things related to psychic powers. I would do this because even though the premier psychic legion is the Thousand Sons, trusting the Thousand Sons not to use something of psychic providence is like trusting an Iron Hand alone in a room with a rusty knife and any exposed part of their skin, which is a good segue into who I believe should be the actual holders of this tech; The Iron Hands. The Iron Hands have their own vault filled with nasty stuff that they even keep away from the Mechanicum and the "keys of hel". These guys are THE premier technological based legion, they love the stuff, in many cases it is literally what they breathe because they've replaced their soft, squishy marine lungs with something better, many of the weapons other primarchs wield are weapons not made by the mechanicum, but by Ferrus Manus, these are the marines that should be the guardians of this stuff because it just is who they are and the Dark Angels are like the conspiracy theories about the Templars come to life. I think those are the secrets they should hold: what happened to the IInd and XIth legion? No one knows save the Emperor and the Dark Angels. Why did the Emperor go back to Terra? The only primarch and legion officers that know are the Dark Angels. The presence of other machines like the golden throne throughout the galaxy? Knowledge belonging to the Dark Angels. Xenos that need to be hunted to extermination, catalogued and forgotten about? Dark Angels. That's the kind of secrets they should have

[@stevenmcgrath5114]

In the Crusade of the Ophidium Gulf Castellan Raimer. Fought alongside the Dark Angles to capture the "Voice of the Emperor". After captureing this "Voice of the Emperor", the Dark Angles departed with so much as a thank you. After a single communication the strike cruiser Ophidium Gulf has not been herd from since.

[@OverlordOfEcchi]

I completely agree. I enjoy the dumb fun of Angry Marines and other stuff. But I enjoy the more fleshed out lore too. It helps that I too collect Dark Angels 🤣

[@Jfk2Mr]

@northernexile While scouring of Shire is something that looks like it's bloating the book, it is the part that seems to escape you - going into meta-analysis, it's Tolkien commenting on his own experiences - leaving home for journey/war and returning to see how everything around them changed as well as how you have changed and how you adapt to post adventure/war reality. Tolkien, just like Frodo, had been scarred mentally, they could not integrate back into the society as well as Sam, Merry and Pippin/C.S.Lewis did. It's a commentary on war veterans and PTSD. Scouring of Shire and aftermath of it is not flashy, it's exact opposite, but it's a real food for thought for which I appreciate that part.

[@caspianbchalphy]

I think they should be given more love and I do like this. I do have two problems with your idea. Luther SHOULD NOT be a psyker so powerful that he rivals or is better as psychic stuff than Magnus. That feels like you’re taking away from Magnus (I am a Thousand Sons fan so I am biased). I’m fine if he would be the 2nd strongest psyker primarch but while he can’t beat Magnus psychically he beats him in every or almost every other way. Only other thing is you shouldn’t give the, helmets like the Grey Knights. I think they should have first crusade looking helmets since people associate that helmet with the knights Templar and that order does seem to be an inspiration for the Dark Angels. The Grey Knight helmets look like knight helmets from a later point in history so they don’t fit the theme in my eyes. Other than that I think if handled well that would be amazing

[@jaytwokay3265]

Woah! New background footage and North talking about a chapter I really like. Is it Christmas already?

[@Ugobro1]

What I've gotten form Descent of Angels was that the Lion had come to the same conclusion as the Emperor prior to his arrival. So the Lion knew the existence of chaos and the need for its eradication. The Emperor recognised this and gave the Lion whatever was available. This would explain the secrecy of the Dark angels and their use as the first Legion and the trust the Emperor put in them and the Lion. Also would explain why the Lion would keep his fellow Primark's at arms length as they did not know of Chaos as he and the Emperor had and the Emperor had not entrusted the information with them. Just my take. This could have been a more interesting conflict then Lion and Luther in my humble opinion.

[@DarkKnightCuron]

This might be Heresy, but hear me out: What if we took both the Dark Angels and Grey Knights and combined them into one Legion? Then we would have many reasons for the secrecy, lower the power level of the Grey Knights, and maintain the cool Knight aesthetic. Thoughts?

[@charlesromano7463]

I solely play and collect Dark Angels you blew my mind with the idea of Luther and Lion being twins. Makes the secret of the DA have a lot more weight. Enjoy all of your videos thank you for all you do

[@jamesespinosa690]

That sounds sooo bad. Sooo bad. We've already got twins.

[@wintermute4978]

I'm glad someone else thinks the Horus Heresy Dark Angel's book are a problem. I've always been a fan of the Dark Angels initially because they were the only chapter not running around in brightly coloured armour which screamed "I'm over here please shoot me" and because of their reclusive secret. The original story which influenced the lore of the chapter is of a charismatic leader who wields a sword of power, betrayed by his most trusted lieutenant, mortally wounded, taken away by mysterious figures to be healed and prophesied to return when he will be most needed to save the kingdom/empire. Yes the story of the Lion is that of King Arthur. I've been interested in 40K since 2nd Ed. The lore for the DA as presented in the Codices (and the Space Hulk DA expansion) was always messy and constantly being changed until the Horus Heresy Novels. The American Native Indian influence and iconography of the DA was said to be because the Chapter recruited from a world settled by Native Americans. The original Deathwing short story also alluded to this (GW even produced a full colour comic of the story in the late 90s/early 2000s). As well as not being a fan of the novels I'm not enamoured by the knightly orders introduced in the books either and to be honest prefer the Chapter as it was presented in 2nd and 3rd Ed. North, may I commend you on not mentioning the usual insults thrown at DA players/collectors, I think you know which one I mean, which allegedly originated from GW head office about their 'real' dark secret? I suppose that's what you get for taking the name of the Primarch from the poet Lionel Johnson and his poem Dark Angel.

[@theezekarion164]

I thought space wolf's in deathwatch short story sumed it up best The secret is they all like to oil each other up an play with "P-Nid" shaped swords while Worshipping "Lebarotchi" (The Lion) 😆 🤣 😂

[@jamesespinosa690]

The Dark Angels do realise that they are the "Jack of all trades". They come to this realisation with the help of the Lion. It's before his rediscovery that they had a growing grudge. Not after. Afterwards they come to terms with their stoic nature. And it's given purpose and meaning through the secretive culture the Lion brought with him from Caliban.

[@DiavloPL]

Its incredible how brain works, when I've heard your bad and that you'd change something I thought automatically, shit another one, and wanted to end video, but thought lets hear it. Damn maybe it wasn't perfect, but pretty good, nice one. Thanks

[@evulutionofgaming]

Sects' sects, sects, sounds like CM Valrak advertising a brothel.

[@slavetotheparasites413]

When do you reckon we'll get a dark angels outrider squad with coconut halves instead of bikes? Hopefully soon.

[@013wolfwarrior]

Making them twins would be a bit tricky, becasue that would mean they were in the same pod so both would need to be smaller regular marine sized like with the Alpha primarchs.

[@richkanu]

Similar but perhaps less dramatic retcon: What if a young lion had wandered out of the forest and encountered a young woman, before disappearing back into the jungle for a couple of decades. Luther, his son, grew up more quickly by virtue of being half human, establishing himself as a natural leader on account of his preternatural talents. Ironically it was Luther who lead the party that discovered the lion many years later, without either knowing that Luther was his son.

[@diamondeyethunderbow5678]

You know, they could really stick with a theme too: Lions, Ravens, Angels, which one is it gonna be?

[@JDSG360]

A lot of 40k is ruined by jokes and memes, its why i dont like some of the 40k "lore" channels.

[@kennetheisenbraun5217]

Actually there aren't many traitor Blood Angels chapters. The mots I can think of is the Knights of Blood who were just renegade and died defending Baal

[@blackalgae370]

The unremembered empire was my first warhammer book, and it's still my favorite

[@gilbertzzz7110]

15:53 SLAANE... oh yeah yeah yeah, Sanguinala. Huray, all hail the pigeon boy, yes yes yes.

[@t-rex_tion9612]

Necrons also have the ability to supernova stars. Forgot what its called, but its like a map they can just tap them out of existence...

[@t-rex_tion9612]

Its the Celestial Orrery.

[@lockyb2001]

Not gonna lie, when hearing about your fix it reminded me a little of Tyrion and Teclis of the high elves.

[@sincenobodyasked3123]

The biggest problem with the Dark Angels is Gav Thorpe, one of the easiest to place among the worse half of BL writers.

[@frederickflores8152]

That's why I love my sneakie beakie boys. What's better than depressed Edgar Allen Poe reading plague doctors? Other than being portrayed as being melancholy in 40k their lore doesn't differ too much from 30k as far as I've read. I love them regardless of the memes/jokes. They're based heavily on my favorite author and they do what reasonable soldiers would do rather than charge into a hail of gunfire

[@RSBurgener]

I'm part of the Old Guard of 40k. I've played since the time between 1st and 2nd edition. So what you say about getting irritated with memes strikes a chord with me. I remember a time when they didn't exist. I get it. 40k is a bit more serious than it used to be, and a lot of people want a release valve for it, which is fine; some of this stuff is really funny. The problem comes when the meme becomes the touchstone for the faction and that's what people think of. I think you're implying GW has a hand in the meme-ification of the verse and I'm sure there's some truth to that. The internet also has a way of boiling down a nuanced concept into a snarky little line or two. Not everything has to be wrapped up in a cute little package.

[@tramico96]

On the Dark Angels and their lore, you are right. Where are the the Dark Angels Techmarines? All that tech, "forgotten". And on Luther, it is sad, he was supposed to be the BEST Caliban human, a hero only seen in millennia, saviour, hero, champion and a psyker. Having his "spot" stolen be the Lion is well, sad. Him managing to fight on an even foot with the Lion, Chaos juice or not, is dumb. Imo. Will wait to see how GW will write their story. I do like the DA and how they are in the modern lore is not to my liking. One thing I would like to see or read is, when Luther goes to become a Marine, he dies. And the Lion using what he learn from fighting Chaos beast and the Order knowledge, part a piece of his SOUL to revive Luther, Luther won't be a Marine but he would still be able to follow the Lion. Allowing the Chaos gods to empower Luther and the Shard of the Lion soul in Luther. Why the Lion couldn't kill him? Part of his soul would also be destroyed. Iron Within.

[@connorburns8447]

I think the best way to fix the meme is when the lion returns, he tells guilliman what happened and the DA can start a new chapter of the story

[@jeagerblackpaw2922]

Always prefered the ambiguity that came with cypher/luther/the fallen as potentially being the real loyalists... the main section of the legion having fallen (however briefly/whether they repented).

[@CptReaper0232]

GeeDub didn't make them memes. The community did. Space Wolves aren't werewolves, they are cunning warriors wearing a cloak of the savage. Blood Angels aren't vampires, they are artisans and nobles. Dark Angels aren't "secretive dickheads", they had half a Legion turn traitor. That isn't having like 10% of your Chapter grow fangs and fur, or start really enjoying blood. That's hundreds, maybe thousands of Astartes turning to Chaos right after the Imperium got bodied by Horus. The Inquisition may very well know about it. If they know, they also know that the Dark Angels are doing their job - tracking down the Fallen and purging them. As for why, narratively, the 40k era Dark Angels are only portrayed hunting Fallen...it's their thing. Take away the Fallen as the antagonist of the story and now you can swap the Dark Angels for literally any other Chapter and lose nothing from the story.

[@darko-man8549]

Mmmmm I do not like the idea of Luthor and Lion being twins. However I agree that Luthor shouldn’t be able to fight so easily. If I were to put together something very quickly: Lion and Luthor fight but the lion is clearly holding back, trying to talk to him and explain. Luthor is mad already and self absorbed so won’t listen. The Lion eventually feels no other choice, but in a very un-knightly way, Luthor employs agents of chaos to back stab the Lion that number enough to catch even him off guard causing wounds. Many Fallen see Luthor’s act and are disgusted, which is what leads some Fallen to not be heretics but renegades

[@wutebear9656]

What is your opinion of current lore Cypher is Omegon running around stirring things?

[@stevenmcgrath5114]

Should you find yourself in the BOSTON area, bring your Dark Angles and we shall seek he who dares call himself the Voice of the Emperor. 💀☠️💀

[@B1llzy1010]

I absolutely loved the unrembered empire novel.

[@azrael1045]

the scouring of the shire; when good people come home from defeating the threat there will always be clean up to do at home because the worst in society were allowed free reign while all the good people were away

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

Complains that GW butchered the DA lore, then proceeds to retcon and super butcher DA lore and more besides.

[@jamesthelamenter5464]

I would like Exile's views on the Ultramarines and other legions. As a former 5th edition Ultramarine fan it would be interesting to hear...

[@northernexile]

Next week its Space Wolves and the Emperor, following week its Ultramarines. :)

[@jamesthelamenter5464]

@@northernexile looking forward to it. 😊

[@nightwingtrp7399]

@@northernexile Can that week possibly include discussion of Magnus doing nothing/everything wrong?

[@azrael1045]

The Dark Angels are probably the best space marine legion and continue to be a legion in all but name (Azrael could summon and command all the successor chapters if he so choose)

[@volcano3493]

Memes are trash. I am glad GW neglects my Iron Hands otherwise we would have had the following junk to bicker about: A retcon into marines wearing white body shells wherein the ghost rests coupled with neon coloured scenery.

[@gankistani9528]

What do you mean "if" Girlyman was a traitor?!? Obviously the one we got with Indomitus is really Alpharius in disguise...

[@BloodStoneFortress]

My favorite Loyalist chapter!

[@Drobeis]

Luv me Dark Angels Luv me Fallen Luv me 'oods and wing 'elms Luv me Luther an' Lion 'Ate Night Lords (not racist just don't like'em) Simple as

[@jamess3430]

Wasted potential HH Dark Angels - wasted potential Currently Dark Angel model line - wasted potential Just potential..... wasted

[@trajanthegreat2928]

I'm not a huge fan of your idea for Luther being a Primarch. I think adding another pair of Primarchs is making Alpharius/Omegon cheaper and having Luther be a Magnus-level psyker cheapens Magnus' status. I also think that your story makes the Emperor too stupid by leaving a Primarch out of the Great Crusade (yes, I have issues with the way Angron's backstory is written as well). Here's my solution to the Luther/Lion fight: don't write it. Leave it a mystery that the Imperium knows basically nothing about and the Dark Angels themselves never speak about because of the shame of losing their Primarch. We don't even know out-of-universe what happened. Have it be that it was the Dark Angels' own Dark Age tech that broke Caliban, though which side it was that caused the breaking is left unknown. By the time of 40k, the Dark Angels themselves don't even know if what they know is the truth, but they keep their traditions alive. The 40k Fallen can then tempt the Dark Angels with knowledge, with many of the veteran Fallen having been on Caliban at the time, setting up a tension for the Dark Angels of resisting the temptation whilst longing to know what happened to their genesire. With the Lion and Caliban gone, the complex web of secret orders and ranks became impossible to keep track of, with only the members of each order even remembering what their purpose is and sometimes acting contrary to (but not against) another order because they simply don't have the full picture. Aesthetically you would keep all the strange icons and symbols of the 30k Dark Angels, and have the chapters of the Dark Angels be based on the loyal knightly orders of Caliban that survived.

[@za907777777777777777]

No the twin idea no just no. I think your forgetting it's a Kain and Able story. Now a twin brother story like this maybe.

[@croyx1a900]

I agree they should be better than their current selves, but the twin thing just makes it too much. I'm having troubles explaining what my mind is telling me, but it just seems done to death in the setting. Brother vs brother, son vs father, mother vs father, it's kind of refreshing that Luther isn't tied by blood and instead more by honor. I don't know.

[@biome3]

Guys, my favorite space marine chapter is totally badass, and not cringe and meme-worthy, you'll see. Jokes aside, why are you letting things like facebook posts effect your perception of something in-universe? To me that seems like you're just looking for things to prop up your augment where there isn't really anything to be found.

[@Scotty_C15]

Did I hear the Dark Angels are interested in the Greater Good?? 😂

[@Disc147]

Aren't the winged helmets related to the Hussars?

[@jamesmacken9501]

I believe they're taken from the native American astetic they have in parts of the chapter

[@thomascrabtree]

You must be trolling, Dark Angels would wipe out Necrons? My brother in Trazyn, you obviously haven’t heard about the Celestial Orrery… Necrons literally have a 3D projected map quantum entangled with the real universe and they can blink to wipe out entire galaxies, oh and it’s fully functional.

[@apothecaryjahn5083]

There lame and deep down you all no it, jaghatai is the storm

[@Theoreticallyyou1234]

Do the Adeptus Custodes count as Space Maines? I know they are far more powerful and are the hand made Ferrari compared to the factory line made Fiat that is a space marine, and a guardsman bieng a skateboard with no wheels

[@manosanastasiou4405]

I like them the way they are b4 primaris reason being some of my older kits look near to camouflage the way I shaded the green n brightened it with warpstone snt green in those days deathwing gave us something else to look at besides green but now when you see a primaris force everything looks too dark n really green n boring