Dark Aspects of Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door (Part 3: Twilight Town & Vivian) - Thane Gaming

A remake of my Dark Aspects of Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door analysis for GameCube, now covering the remake on Switch! In this episode, it's all about the dour chapter 4 and a pair of shadowy characters adding intrigue to the main plot. Doo_liss the shapeshifting Duplighost has stolen Mario's identity, and Vivian (a former enemy) teams up with our hero to stop him. I do discuss the latter character's gender identity after careful research on the matter, and report on whether it was always the intention of the writers for her to be a trans woman.
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Music used (in order):
♫ Win Battle, Partner Fainted - TTYD [GameCube]
♫ Twilight Trail - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Palace of Shadow (Courtyard Tower) - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Training - Luigi's Mansion
♫ Megalovania - EarthBound Halloween Hack
♫ Creepy Steeple - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Twilight Town - TTYD [GameCube]
♫ Twilight Town - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Doo_liss Drops In - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Crystal Palace Crawl - Paper Mario [N64]
♫ Creepy Steeple (Cursed) - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Doopliss Battle - TTYD [GameCube]
♫ Twilight Trail (Cursed) - TTYD [Switch]
♫ It's-a-you… Mario?! (Doo_liss) - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Event Battle: Atomic Boo - TTYD [Switch]
♫ We're the Three Shadows! - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Vivian (Primer) - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Event Battle: Three Shadows - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Birdo's Theme (Arranged) - Mario Strikers Charged
♫ Soul Rumblings - Paper Mario: Color Splash
♫ Shadow Mario - Super Mario Sunshine
♫ Battle: Imposter Mario - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Peace Returns to Twilight Town - TTYD [Switch]
♫ Bobbery and Scarlette - TTYD [Switch]
Sources & further reading
Additional video clips:
⍟ Leon Theremin plays "Deep Night" - Charlie Draper
• Leon Theremin plays "D...
⍟ Spooky Vibraphone - Lorenzo Bergamino
• Spooky Vibraphone
⍟ Mortal Kombat footage - deathmule
• Mortal Kombat All Fata...
⍟ Paper Mario Gets Confused - Doobus Goobus
• Paper Mario Gets Confused
⍟ Mario & Luigi Superstar Saga footage - Ninbanyan
• Mario & Luigi Supersta...
⍟ TTYD Japanese GameCube footage - ヒラ
• 【名作】神ゲー確定の『ペーパーマリオ』シリー...
⍟ Doki Doki Panic footage - やまだくん
• 夢工場ドキドキパニック プレイ動画 / Yu...
⍟ Super Paper Mario footage - つちのこゲームズ
• 【爆弾マリオが強すぎる…】モノノフ王国ブブド...
⍟ TTYD JPN GameCube credits - niyout
• ペーパーマリオRPG 239
⍟ One-shotting Doo_liss - SmashMarioPro 2000vvvvv
• What Happens If You On...
⍟ TTYD JPN Switch footage - Daidara Games
• 戦うのはマリオの仲間たち！？『ペーパーマリオ...
⍟ Crash Bandicoot: Warped footage - Ruba
• Crash Bandicoot N. San...
⍟ King of the Hill clip - Arc
⍟ The Nightmare Before Christmas - Top Clips
⍟ Squilliam clip - EvanTheEaglesFan2009
⍟ Runaway Brain clip - Smile's Looney Bin
⍟ Soylent Green clip - rschreck
⍟ The Emperor Arrives clip - Star Jedi 951
⍟ The Princess Bride clip - Movie Clip Microcosm - what movies mean to us.
⍟ Muppet Classic Theater clip - King Midas
⍟ Hanna-Barbera's Rumpelstiltskin - NerdyGirlFilms
Images:
⍟ Official TTYD sprites in thumbnail uploaded by fawfulthegreat64
www.spriters-resource.com/nin...
⍟ 90's Apple Promo still - Blake Patterson
Articles referenced:
⍟ The Cutting Room Floor TTYD regional differences
tcrf.net/Paper_Mario:_The_Tho...
⍟ TCRF Super Paper Mario
tcrf.net/Super_Paper_Mario/En...
⍟ Birdo: Under the Bow - The Mushroom Kingdom
themushroomkingdom.net/birdo....
⍟ Legends of Localizaion - Atai
legendsoflocalization.com/per...
Sound effects & music:
⍟ TTYD GameCube music uploaded by ViviVGM
⍟ TTYD remake music uploaded by Charisma entertainer
• Paper Mario: the Thous...
⍟ Baby Kate voice clip - Zak Wolf
Follow me for channel updates on social media:
► Twitter - / thanegaming
► Instagram - / thanegaming
0:00 - Opening
0:08 - The darkest chapter?
0:40 - 4 = death
01:04 - A sketchy warp pipe
01:37 - Welcome to Twilight Town
02:36 - Pig curse
03:32 - Creepy music
04:31 - Transformed Twilighters
05:56 - Doo_liss
07:15 - Identity theft
12:13 - Say my name
12:55 - Luigi in the crowd
13:36 - An unlikely friend
15:18 - Vivan is transgender
19:47 - Stealing back the "p"
20:16 - Learned crows
20:42 - Doopliss showdown
22:45 - Doopliss = Rumpelstiltskin
23:52 - The aftermath
24:31 - Patron thanks
24:38 - End screen
#papermario #thethousandyeardoor #papermariothethousandyeardoor

[@AnimaMandala]

Gender identity can be a very nuanced thing. As you said, Vivian herself doesn't elaborate much on her specific situation, but we do know that she considers herself a woman despite what everyone else chooses to see. At the end of the day, that's all that matters. But it couldn't have been easy for her embrace and express this about herself, since we see how much it means to Vivian when Beldam refers to her as a "sister". And I don't know if it was intended, but I'm convinced that's the reason she decides to help Mario get his identity back. She knows how it feels to not be seen as who you really are. She can't just sit by and let someone else loose their identity after she had to fight so hard for her own.

[@MetroidSolid]

I always found it odd, but Wholesome, that at the time Mario came back to the town, Vivian would still be a villain to him, like she and her sisters still wanted to destroy him, but Mario saw her upset, as she dug through the grass, and his kind nature just made him wanna help, cuz he knew she was having a hard time, and even letting her share what's been bothering her, which gained him a new Ally, she really is one of my favorite PM partners!

[@avanelletheclockfriend2515]

Dupree in this chapter hitting on a man’s wife with said man standing right there really solidified that he & Bobbery would be the “I also choose this man’s dead wife” meme.

[@johngameboy6887]

The fact that Doopliss can somehow VERBALLY differentiate when Mario uses a capital P instead of a lower case p is funny af

[@tripplec6798]

when I got to this part I actually thought I was being smug and typed his name in all caps cause I figured "oh the P is there so take that" only to instead be the one getting owned

[@ClaireSoelberg-op8id]

I like to think that when Mario says the name "DooPliss" out loud, Doopliss can hear the over-emphasis on the P consonant and knows right away that his trick worked. 😂

[@michealforguson5317]

"Now guess, Slick! What's my name?!" Mario: DooPliss. "Wrongamundo, Little Nobody! What kind of mother would name their kid THAT?!" Mario: Yours. "NOW LISTEN HERE, YOU USELESS SHADOW!"

[@SergioRamos-iv6qw]

DooPliss is pronounced as doo-pee-liss

[@tysondennis1016]

I feel like the reason the Cree_y Stee_le has stained glass _ortraits of Doo_liss is because he was worshi__ed by the Twilighters long ago, to the _oint where they built the stee_le as not just a home for him, but a _lace for them to worshi_ him, but when his tricks started to become more and more dangerous, they _laced the seal on the war_ _i_es leading in and out of Twilight Town, so a being like Doo_liss who is _owerful when his name is unknown, but weak when his name is known, could not esca_e and wreak havoc on the outside world.

[@Applemangh]

Makes sense

[@MySnugglePuppy]

Honestly this is the best fan theory for Doopliss’ backstory, and it honestly makes me happier that he was able to find a way to enjoy himself without hurting others in the postgame.

[@twilighttoast01]

I think it’s actually implied that one of the four heroes built the steeple to house the crystal star (most likely the Boo), but this theory could still work if you just changed it so Doo_lis instead took over the steeple and built the pain glass mural himself/had someone else do it

[@HRR-]

That is a _retty interesting theory. A _aranormal _rankster who let the _raise go to his head and wanted great _ower so he cursed his followers to become _igs!

[@micahdavidson1]

​@@twilighttoast01The boo would be the spirit in the key chest in Twilight Town. The previous story by Grifty mentions that the heroes are trapped when they would let go of their respective Crystal Stars.

[@MrNobody_37]

A few bits I’ve thought about the chapter and/or some of what adds to the generally unsettling feel… - Duplighosts are like Shy Guys insofar as we never see their true forms-the ghosts have eyes and feet but are otherwise covered by a sheet; the latter always wear masks. - The solo crow poetically laments an existential crisis: “Alas, this twilit world is too full of pain and contradiction, too full of broken dreams. |Perhaps I was only given wings so that I could flee the terror of mundanity...” (His musings have two new iterations as the game goes on) - The parrot is (by implication) left to die-in the GameCube version, it says in later chapters, “Doopliss left me here and ran off... Somebody let me out of here! Oh, I give up...” - And perhaps worst of all… Doopliss is forced to watch his shows on a small CRT TV. Now THAT’S a depressing thought!

[@Alex-n3t]

At least he is enjoying his “me time” WITH a tv in the first place

[@alexdehatter2151]

I like that Doopliss healing with Life Mushrooms isn’t just there for the devs to stop you from beating him too early and missing the cutscene with Vivian, but it also makes sense from a story and character perspective. You can buy Life Mushrooms in the Twilight Town shop - he’s not just pulling them out of nowhere. Plus, it fits that he would use them to try and cheat his way out of losing, like how he hid the letter “p” away to stop you guessing his name.

[@Taurmega]

Vivian is just one of those characters that everybody loves. Like genuinely probably the most beloved charcater in the series, even before the remake. To the point where it's hard for me to imagine anyone that could actually unironically dislike her, LOL Also helps that her existence as a party member makes certain bosses that otherwise would have been nightmares into things that are WAY more manageable. If Vivian wasn't in this game, it would probably be much tougher I think. But yeah, Viv is great. Just goes to show how good of a game TTYD is, with its writing and charcater designs!

[@ivanbluecool]

So dark the sun isn't even out. Now that's dark. Jokes aside the pig scene was actually pretty dark especially if dooplis did it once and someone gets eaten. Lucky he was doing it fast.

[@RTD_Dev]

“Twilight Town” was the most _interesting_ Mario Location I ever saw back when I was a kid. (The plot-twist with Dooplis caught me by surprise, though. 😮)

[@nathanlehman9415]

I wish Nintendo wasn't so afraid to make games like this.

[@uroskesic6117]

Isn t origami king dark 😑

[@Wanesaie]

​@@uroskesic6117 Olivia lifts the mood even if she talks a lot

[@nathanlehman9415]

@uroskesic6117 it's not about the darkness, though even with how dark origami king is, the full scope of the horror is censored by the paper theming and Olivia being so happy. It's more that they are afraid to introduce new character designs, have unique species,and overall try to innovate on a major scale.

[@uroskesic6117]

@@nathanlehman9415 I mean they did innovate with the battles but I do understand what your saying.I do believe that the team wanted to put original characters in the game,but weren t alowed soo they had to figure out a way with the limitations they had

[@uroskesic6117]

@@Wanesaie Why do you hate Olivia.Because if soo 😠

[@poweroffriendship2.0]

Doo_liss' gimmick reminds me of the story of _Rumplestiltskin._ Both of them are mischiefs who are ridiculously overpowered when they are unnamed yet their invulnerability just wears off once you figure out their names to the point of getting defeated. The difference is that Doo_liss not only he committed an identity theft on Mario, he also rigged the keyboard by taking out one of the keys. Dude just showed off his 4D Chess move on that poor plumber.

[@volvoman5262]

His real name Is Rumpel In everywere but English version of the game EDIT: Even thane gaming says in the video

[@ThaneGaming]

Yes for sure! I do talk about it at 22:45, but his name in Japan is "Ranperu" (Rumpel), based on Rumplestiltskin. I laughed when I learned that, it makes a ton of sense!

[@FlowMage]

Definitely reminds me of that, too. I love the references to old fairytales. The name stealing makes me think of the stories of the fae stealing your name, or even changelings, who’d take the place of human children in European folklore!

[@WackoMcGoose]

@@FlowMage Relatedly, I don't think Freak-Inna-Sheet _can_ leave Twilight Town as Mario, specifically because of the source material's focus on True Names. Ganking someone's identity lets you "be" them, yes, but nominative magic still somehow "knows" that name doesn't belong to you, while "Nameless Frank" can't leave because he no longer "has" a name. Once his secret is out at the end of the chapter, he no longer has a _need_ to protect his True Name (to the fact that he _corrects others_ like "Um, my name is [REDACTED], actually" after becoming the new Third Shadow), so he just wrote down his True Name and was able to use the pipe. ...In theory he could have left as Mario if he _did_ write down his True Name (nothing says that it has to be the _only_ name you currently have), but that would have left him in danger of the others going "hey, what's that weird name on your butt" and then the jig is up.

[@Baka_Crazy]

​@@volvoman5262 Oh rly? I thought it was a German thing... Aw man...

[@whackareal]

Luigi getting munched by a piranha plant with no animation is hilarious

[@MySnugglePuppy]

I love how Mario is canonically accepting of just about everyone because he has apparently “Seen some crap” and isn’t dumb enough to make assumptions or give up on the people around him. He is, however, perfectly content with sleeping while Luigi talks about his adventures in the Waffle Kingdom. Edit: I will also say that I infinitely prefer the new Twilight Town track to original since Twilight Town never felt like it was supposed to have the most creepy vibe to it. It felt more somber and sad, especially since most of the townsfolk had seemingly accepted the situation and are just wallowing in their despair instead of trying to leave to escape their muddy fate. The added section in the remake’s track really captures the lack of hope everyone in the town felt.

[@Applemangh]

I figured Dooplis was using the power of the crystal star he held to enhance his power, and that's the reason why no other duplighost even approaches his ability to completely steal a person's identity, or to transform other people into pigs with no apparent effort. We know the crystal stars have no bias for being used for good or evil, and at least one other villain had figured out a way to use one.

[@ThaneGaming]

Oh that's actually a really cool thought I haven't heard anyone bring up before! I especially like it because chapter 3 explores the power-enhancing capabilities of the Crystal Stars, but none of the other bosses really take advantage of their potential. This theory works within the context of the rest of the game too, because chapter 4 is the only segment where he displays abilities beyond what a standard Duplighost can do. Thank you for the comment, this is my headcanon now and it may very well have been a plot point the writers had in mind!

[@justinukah7441]

That…makes a lot sense actually. Wscpecually how Grubbs was utilizing the Gold Star.

[@Applemangh]

Thanks, I also had the idea that Cortez's crystal star might be the real reason for his apparent immortality, though that's even more of a stretch since Cortez had no idea it was special in any way. But it would explain why he's much stronger than the average ghost.

[@kios3a]

love how he censors the boss's name.

[@WackoMcGoose]

I always call him _Freak-Inna-Sheet,_ because that IS canonically his name (at least according to Beldam) as well as a technically accurate description of him and his species.

[@Alex-n3t]

I mean that is part of doo_liss’ character so it makes sense

[@wurtknurte7283]

Honestly, the whole thing with Vivian really shows how much effort Nintendo put into the re-translation. The fact that they revised the text to match with people's growing acceptance of trans people in the modern day is quite nice. Instead of trying to ignore the issue, they tackled it head on and, in my opinion, made it rather tasteful. Also, did you really expect Vivian, part of a group who needs a picture of someone's face in their hands to recognise someone, to realise she was helping Mario until the last moment?

[@volvoman5262]

@@wurtknurte7283 honesly once you know that Vivian is trans, her "redemption" becomes the most predigteble thing in a game

[@wurtknurte7283]

@@volvoman5262 Did... you just try to spell "predictable"

[@volvoman5262]

​@@wurtknurte7283yes The pain of English not being your first leunge

[@wurtknurte7283]

@@volvoman5262 Oh, sorry, I didn't think of that. But anyway, about Vivian's redemption being predictable, I think that was just foreshadowing. There were multiple points beforehand that showed that Vivian wasn't liking her situation, with every scene with the shadow sisters showing her abuse. Then, in the literal gloomiest place ever, she finds one person who just accepts her. I think that's nice, so if it's predictable, it was leading the player to already be used to the idea of having Vivian on their side, since we were already on her side in terms of the abuse.

[@Emery_Pallas]

@@volvoman5262 this only gets mentioned in the remake when she's an actual partner, before that she's presented in a very cinderella ish manner regardless of version that probably makes it more obvious then her being trans.

[@theghosttm8245]

2:08 When I was playing this on my switch my little brother walked in and said “Is that Sans?” I couldn’t unhear it.

[@HRR-]

Now I can’t either 😂

[@ivanbluecool]

Honestly the whole Vivian thing wasn't even that big part of the story that most people for or against try to make a big deal. You could honestly miss the line if you click fast enough even. I honestly enjoyed the original joke in the early parts where the x nauts and even the shadows were trying to skirt around it. That was funny since even the writers were basically asking "what do we call them since they aren't sirens anymore" I was laughing so much how 4th walk break it was

[@nascour5991]

yeah its not like this is ps4 spiderman 2 there isn't like heavy politics it's one line

[@ivanbluecool]

@@nascour5991 not really a good example since you didn't mention what they said and clearly missed civil war

[@nascour5991]

@@ivanbluecool I'm talking about the spiderman ps4 game, vs the ttyd remake in how to do minority rep right. You can disagree but I wanna be clear I'm not transphobic and I have no problem with minority rep so long as it isn't super preachy and condemning normal people like nobody wants to be shit on while playing a game. Vivian is a example of how to do minority rep properly without getting too political cus politics really have no place in games imo unless done like vivain was.

[@infinityheart_tm9270]

I.E King of Skill not noticing when he was playing through Chapter 4 and probably indifferent to the whole thing.

[@nascour5991]

@@infinityheart_tm9270 yeah not everyone is gonna care about that and that's ok. So long as they aren't like wow vivian is trans I want all my viewers to go harass trans people unironically like I can't get behind that.

[@WackoMcGoose]

Interesting design choice in the remake: the "guess the monster's name" is the ONLY point where you have a full in-game keyboard (wait, isn't it also for the door codes in Chapter 7...?). When naming the Yoshi Kid, _you use the Switch keyboard._ Now, I know why they _didn't_ use the Switch keyboard in this case, it's hardcoded and they couldn't conveniently delete a letter from it... but I wonder why they didn't use an in-game keyboard for _every_ keyboard interaction, the way the original did?

[@alicestarkwing]

I guess the devs didn't want players to name their Yoshi something offensive and inappropriate so they used the Switch default keyboard for that specific instance (it has some built-in word filters iirc)

[@WackoMcGoose]

@@alicestarkwing It... actually literally doesn't, I've seen a LOT of posts on r-slash-PaperMario of naming him with outright expletives that went through fine.

[@alicestarkwing]

@@WackoMcGoose huh, that's funny af

[@blakeskit]

The switch eshop disables some letters for entering gift cards, so I don't know why they couldn't do something like that

[@WackoMcGoose]

@@blakeskit That's a hardcoded behavior mode intended for that exact purpose. From my understanding, there's no way to _arbitrarily_ disable specific keys, only preset modes like "digits only", "ascii but no confusable characters", and of course an "everything" mode for each language.

[@sorrel_leaf_vespers]

I feel like Doopliss feels so weird and nonsensical because they're just an inherently fourth-wall breaking character. Stealing your letters, breaking through the background, the way their illusion tears off, the way they start screaming their name at any given opportunity after chapter 4... I think they might be aware that the fourth wall and the player exist in at least SOME capacity.

[@lordmarshmal_0643]

As an aside, one thing that I always appreciate in any game is when they allow for boss rematches, especially if the 2nd time around they get a buff of some sort (Mega Man's RPG outings for instance) - I'm not alone in this as a hack of the original PM, "Master Quest" (which is extremely tough but has a "junior" version that dials the numbers back towards vanilla territory), offers rematches for a star piece each one you can conquer Doopliss could've served that role, all things considered - canonically he probably needs a visual reference for the copying, sure, but like, have him stop by the Pit in the post-game as a part of the Exhibition Match list similar to Prince Mush, and go from there

[@Mr_Magolor]

A gameplay change that I much appreciate in the Remake is how you can take damage from Doo_liss at Twilight Trail now. It was always weird how in the original he talks about deleting you but then you're just as invulnerable to his attacks as he is to yours. Maybe the idea was that he was passively draining Mario's power and just messing around? Anyway I think it adds to the narrative that not only can you not hurt him but he can absolutely murder you if he actually decided to get serious. It really adds to the feeling of powerlessness. Bonus Fun Fact: I don't know if this is different in English versions of the tale, but in the original German version of Rumpelstilzchen when the miller's daughter guesses his name the first thing he says when freaking out is: "THE DEVIL HAS TOLD YOU THAT!!!". He really screams it at the top of his lungs too. And every adaptation I've seen has it. Would've been something had Doopliss/Rumpel done that, if maybe only in the Japanese and/or German version.

[@andre_601]

I feel like it was dooplis' effect accidentally going on mario... Think about it: If not knowing his true name makes him invulnerable, would making you a shadow (Aka a unknown identity) also invulnerable? After all does Mario say his name was stolen, hinting at him not even recalling it...

[@Crimson-Hat]

I love Beldam posting man. Best thing we ever came up with.

[@memeboi6913]

True as fuck

[@maxgambin3758]

The twilight town footage and “got it memorized” reference… kingdom hearts chef kiss

[@justcallmeleonardo]

I've actually 100% the game now, it's very fun

[@hugsterjim2794]

Kind of wish the ca_tions also followed through with the missing letter and then return to normal after you show the _ in the video

[@cadethumann8605]

My personal take on the controversy regarding Vivian's identity is this: she's essentially a malleable spectre/ghost. I doubt they would be strictly tied to physical biology. So, they can change their genders however they please (or not have one to begin with). So, whether Vivian is a trans woman or whatever version/interpretation you go by, I'm sure she can be whatever gender she feels at peace with. In the end, she is still struggling with being mistreated over her identity and must find others who accept her (in fact, Chapter 4 is about Mario reclaiming his identity whilst being treated as an enemy by others and only finding companionship with a like-minded individual). By the end of it, she holds true to her identity, becomes a stronger person (and one of, if not the most powerful party member. Her Fiery Jinx is so good), gets back at those who wronged her, and helps save the day. But hey, that's just my headcanon. I also find it a fun existential thought about spectres and the like.

[@HRR-]

13:02 I was _leasantly sur_rised to see that Luigi knows that the shadowy silhouette is his actual brother and cheers for him to get revenge on this _etulant _oser. Also, I don’t I think I can forgive that _iranha _lant for eating him. Ho_efully, Luigi had eaten a 1-u_ mushroom beforehand.

[@sparrowflyaway]

It always annoyed me playing chapter 4 that the capital letters are all still there. You can write his name in all caps and he'll say it's wrong, when we know dang well it's not. I wish they'd removed both the upper and lowercase P from the keyboard instead of making us feel gypped when he won't accept us shouting his name at him.

[@MatthewWeinberg-lr6kv]

Personally, I think the remade version of Twilight Town's theme going for more of a dramatic and orchestral style as opposed to a creepy style works rather well. Contrary to Twilight Town and Creepy Steeple, which give off very genuinely unnerving vibes, Twilight Town isn't really supposed to actually creep you out or make you unsettled-it's not really creepy so much as gloomy and somber. And in spite of that gloomy vibe, it is still the calm before the storm and your safe haven in the midst of the untamed horrors surrounding it. To me, the music in the Switch version makes it feel like a quiet prelude to a genuinely creepy ordeal, and emphasizes that the town is depressing, and yet at the same time a quiet respite in the face of everything else in Chapter 4. As for the original theme...in my opinion, it makes Twilight Town feel no different from the spooky wilderness surrounding it. It does a better job at being scary, but I honestly don't think that's what Twilight Town is supposed to be. Long story short...I think the remake's version of the song captures the essence of Twilight Town far more accurately than the original song.

[@Sharpteeth32]

Doppelgangers in general are one of my favorite tropes in fiction and Doopliss is certainly such a great example. Doopliss really stands out in the game because he isn't doing anything for an ulterior motive or any particular goal. He's an asshole, and he decides to steal Mario's body and screw with him because, again, he's just an asshole. Chapter 4 is my third favorite chapter in the game.

[@lewis9s]

I’m honestly glad they clarified Vivian’s gender. Not the first time I’ve actually been confused about a Paper Mario character’s gender. Apparently Watt (from PM64) is actually a girl?

[@edgytoucan3444]

The Vivian segment made me really happy! I’m really glad that the remake brought this into the English translation. I’m not trans myself, but I have a handful of friends who are, and I’m really happy that there’s positive representation of trans folks in a Mario game of all things.

[@volvoman5262]

@@edgytoucan3444 technicly the dialoge got changed She was always trans but the way it's said is way diffrent even in japanese version

[@nascour5991]

It's cool yeah and it isn't too preachy and trying to make other kinds of people look bad or change their sexuality like other games. Werid though cus Japan isn't exactly pro trans and Nintendo doesn't really like politics so it's surprising the vivian trans line was left in

[@JArt872]

@@volvoman5262 In both Japanese Original and Remake, she wasn't trans, in Original she was just a crossdresser and Beldam can't handle that her crossdressing brother is prettier than her and sibling, remake made Vivian ambiguous, as in she can be either boy or girl, doesn't matter. America just made her trans so anyone can't call it "accurate"

[@volvoman5262]

@@JArt872 a new japanese description " she has a body of a man but a heart of a woman "

[@sleepyheadlbp55]

@@JArt872 Beldam speech bubble

[@cadethumann8605]

I also want to point out that the cursed theme in Twilight town has an unusual tune (if you can call it that). Its difficult for me to describe, but its like theres only a couple of notes, with some sounding eerie, others somber. Its as if Mario feels lost as well as sad that no one recognizes him. What do you make of it?

[@justinukah7441]

I was taken a back for a bit listening to the cursed variants of Chapter 4. The most creepy of them in my eyes is the Cursed Twilight Town theme. The slow ambience of gives of like you said an unsettling and sticky situation vibe; further amplified how the Twilighters giving praise to who you they THINK is Mario but actually the monster that cursed them parading around town with his face.

[@geekyvoiceacts]

I really love your analysis ! I've been enjoying TTYD and this is a perfect in depth summary! That's so sweet that Luigi showed up in the crowd against Doo_liss!!

[@serenepastel]

Before starting the video, the thumbnail is genius

[@justcallmeleonardo]

I thought of a fun tidbit about Doopliss. In italian he was actually translated as "Rampel", so there too you can clearly see the fairy tale connection.

[@FairyPrincessSerenity]

Freak-sheet's powers remind me of that thing where you take an oath to gain immense power, and as long as you follow the terms of the oath, you're golden. In his case, forced to give up his name and trapped in the spook zone. Speaking of which, a warp pipe that blocks the nameless is an excellent way to block any sort of nameless fae from using it. Is Freak-sheet a fae? Maybe.

[@Zora.pk76]

I don't know if this is me but chapter 4 needs to be changed because once you know the gimmick of this chapter it becomes unfun or it just becomes okay I got to do this and that. I feel like a way they could have fixed it is given that the body thief takes your identity and the party he could use all of your abilities meaning if you had a overpowered build just before fighting the body thief they will have that exact build or depending on the amount of badges you have the AI or system will create the optimal badge setup with the badges you have. You've gained like the crystal stars or appealing we're getting star points because well they don't know your Mario they see you as an enemy you're more likely to take damage from the stage . Cherry on top they can use the crystal star abilities and switch partners. Bada bing bada boom this chapter is fun to replay and there'll be more hints to guessing his name oh and there should be a bad way you can become Shadow Mario again Oh by the way love the video and these dark aspects of the game just make it a lot more chilling a little bit as I know I'm asking for too much with this idea keep on making these videos though love them

[@uroskesic6117]

If only shyguys where in here this would have been a top tier comedy game

[@andre_601]

Another detail in the original (Not sure if it's in the remake) is, that when fake mario takes the star, you hear a ominous background noise, making the overall scene feel more creepy... Like something really isn't right... Also, Vivian being trans is something I never noticed, but welcome either way. She's cute after all.

[@superdean9966]

vivian is my favorite character :>

[@ThaneGaming]

I would say Vivian is the TTYD party member I like best, next to Goombella! Is Vivian your favorite overall?

[@NathanYouTubeGaming]

I’m sure he can’t ruin your opinion on them by pointing out random things……

[@bogbastard4243]

@@NathanKZbinGaming who said anything about that?

[@superdean9966]

@ThaneGaming yes my 2 favorite characters of all time are ness and vivian

[@superdean9966]

@NathanKZbinGaming oh no

[@uroskesic6117]

Question.Now that mario and luigi is coming do you think that paper mario should stick with the action adventure formula cause I really enjoyed the open area exploration and the paper macho fights

[@miguelgarces8946]

1:35, the Super Mario Wiki says Yoshi wears pants. I don't see it since there are no pant legs, and he's a cute little baby after all. I did an edit about it, but it was undone twice. How did the partners not act suspicious when "Mario" took them back to the imposter's home? There's no way Vivian can be a boy. "Vivian" is clearly a girl's name, and she has pink hair, a girly color.

[@legatosaldana3870]

2:11 honestly they sound more like spamton

[@svxd7369]

I absolutely love how Nintendo is now more accepting of Vivian's transgender identity. I also love that they made the male Twilighters sound like Sans from Undertale. I can see why chapter 4 is a lot of people's favorite chapter from TTYD, Doopliss stealing Mario's identity definitely caught me and a lot of other people off guard when playing for the first time.

[@volvoman5262]

Basicly Vivian being trans was always truth, but the way that she is represented is not the original developers intentions In original, a but of a joke. In the remake positive representation and even removing the Transphobia, I mean at least Beldam no longer hates Vivian because of that ( at the very least not officialy ), she just want's to bully somebody, DooPliss can confirm

[@nascour5991]

it may not have been transphobia just wanting to avoid controversy but yeah

[@supermarioplushybrotheradventu]

Yet even using a uppercase P does not work

[@alexandrevachon541]

Vivian is such a sweetie, she deserves a lot of love.

[@bucko2356]

Has anyone else noticed that the video in the bottom left says _art 3. Real nice touch

[@ThePonderer]

20:40 it really is sad- having played the remake with very little memory of the original, I assumed that crow dialogue HAD to be a new addition.

[@SkyanUltra]

i'm so glad that the remake retained her gender identity as a trans character, not just because of how important it is for a massive company like nintendo to actually have undeniable positive LGBTQ+ representation in an official product of theirs, and how much that means for gaming as a whole, but also because it only helps to reinforce her morals and overall motivation to help mario in the first place. she knows how it feels to be treated like someone you know you aren't, and that resonates with her own life story and gives her a great reason to ditch her abusive family to help mario in the first place. not only that, but there's also the fact that the remake does a great job at retaining her gender identity while treating it respectfully, unlike the original japanese translation which constantly had everyone misgender her and make her the butt of the joke for no real reason other than stereotyping. heroes should be heroes, treating those around them respectfully even if they may not fully understand, just as villains should be villains, and beldam being a dick to her sister and not accepting her for who she truly is is some pretty good motivation to make me want to learn the timing for that frame perfect 4th power bounce and beyond just so i can hit the power bounce cap with a shit ton of attack badges on her ass LOL

[@Daniel_Coffman]

This may be a hot take and I may be making a pig mistake posting this; I may even get roasted for my insuboardination; but I found this chapter rather boaring. Don't worry, I don't actually think that; I only said it for the puns, lol.

[@patcahill3724]

Nice of Thane Gaming to invite us over for a dark aspects video, gay Luigi? I HOPE HE MADE LOTSA SPAGHETTI!

[@daniellelondon439]

Loving this series!

[@Skillaway]

vivian is so fire haha get it

[@Blowter]

Yay a new episode of dark aspects :D

[@nascour5991]

Can't wait till you get to chapter 8 and the postgame :D

[@TopTierGamerMan]

To be fair, I think Nintendo realized how complicated it would be to keep Vivian being trans as a joke due to the internet and Twitter, so they just affirmed it. As for me, I was just like, “oh, that’s funny.” The people making a big deal of it are just lost causes.

[@newerboomerangmiaro7778]

Actually i wonder how long till we see the Luigi's mansion 2 Dark Aspects video?

[@jayglenn837]

Where did that Mickey Mouse clip around 7:30 come from, I have to know.

[@ThaneGaming]

It's from the animated short Runaway Brain (1995)! Mickey's playing a game based on Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs 😆

[@sonnitude]

I’m so glad that Vivian is given her original intent back, and Beldum not withstanding, which IS accurate to the original, everyone on Mario’s cast is accepting of it! I believe Goombella’s tattle book entry was even changed to reflect this positive viewpoint if memory serves

[@toypikachutheoctoling6029]

When you tattle Vivian during the first Shadow Trio Fight, Goombella will call Vivian cute which is really adorable

[@sonnitude]

@@toypikachutheoctoling6029 I thought so! I thought I was making that up, but I’m so glad I was wrong.

[@BriceTerry04]

I never cared about Vivian when I played the original version, but when the Remake came out and we found out that she's trans, I was so freaking happy. So happy in fact that during Pride month, I made some art of Vivian holding a trans heart (Ala Mario getting a pure heart in Super Paper Mario.) and one of Baby Luigi giving Vivian a trans flag drawing he made for her. Vivian and Birdo are trans goals.

[@gboogie3257]

This Remake brought me into my favorite thing ever now *Beldam Speech Bubble* (Also ima assume cool video not gonna watch fully since it’s my first time playing TTYD and currently starting chapter 2’s Boggly tree but I can’t wait to keep going the games been very fun)

[@evagarcia865]

15:34 Shadow pun intended?

[@ThaneGaming]

@@evagarcia865 it was, I'm glad you noticed 😅

[@themadxd1274]

I'm gonna be honest your reasoning behind Vivian makes no fucking sense, if that were true then they would've said it in those menus, joke or not, it makes no sense to not mention it. There have been obvious transgenders in anime before the game, but apparently they didn't have the balls to say it themselves?

[@ThaneGaming]

My reasoning is that even back then, she clearly identified as a girl, so she always was a girl. The menu descriptions were products of a time when it wasn't very common for people to understand/see transgender girls as girls. In hindsight, the writers were making fun of a trans female who was assigned male at birth (haha, look at the "guy" who thinks "he" is a she). The menus did not have to explicitly say "this character is trans" for it to be true

[@shadisnotamused]

Bless the beldam speech bubble, its been so funny

[@volvoman5262]

I don't know what's funny aboud spamming the picture of karma-houdini

[@superbropr0]

crows

[@toypikachutheoctoling6029]

I loved Vivian as a kid even before I found out she was canonicaly trans, cause she went through what alot of people around the time the original ttyd came out. Vivian felt like she couldn't be herself she was put down for it every time by Beldam, but even through the constant beratement, that one act of kindness from Mario made her realize there is kindness in the world,and it made me love Vivian even more as a character

[@uroskesic6117]

After chapter 4 the other parts (exept maybe 8)get kindof dull in my opinion

[@LordDarner]

It's almost funny how there's been more progress for publicly talking about trans people in children's media than there's been for reducing the use of fossil fule.

[@volvoman5262]

@@LordDarner your not wrong, but like why do you care Whacka?

[@LordDarner]

@@volvoman5262 Even Whacka needs clean air.

[@MugenAeternum]

I'm strangely more okay with Vivian being a feminine looking boy of this blatant look. You don't see it very often in games is that said characters are rare since they tend to look physically male if that makes sense. This is why I really like how they did Forrest in Fire Emblem Fates.

[@blakeskit]

What buggs me about vivian and *her* backstory is that *ONLY* the her gender is fixed in translation. I'd think most people (especially those who chose to use the beldem spech bubble reaction image) would expect vivian's struggles as a backstory to also be intact. Instead of a trans character being bullied and made fun of for being trans, its a trans character who is bullied and made fun of, which in my opinion is the wrong message to send to people especially considering mario games generally go for a younger audience.

[@sadib100]

Japanese Birdo preferring Cathy over Catherine means Catherine is a deadname.

[@ThaneGaming]

@@sadib100 you're right--same thing with Birdo. According to the US Super Mario Bros. 2 instruction manual, Birdo prefers to be called "Birdetta"

[@sadib100]

@@ThaneGaming It's just weird that she already has a girl's name.

[@ThaneGaming]

@@sadib100 yeah that is odd, I can maybe see a case for Birdo sounding slightly masculine with the "o" so she prefers Birdetta, but there's nothing like that with Catherine -> Cathy. It just sounds like she wants others to call her by a nickname (is it because Cathy is more cutesy?)

[@sadib100]

@@ThaneGaming Maybe someone on the dev team thought Catherine was a manly name or something.

[@authorbat5562]

Way too many people spend way too much time talking about gender crap. Good grief.

[@JamestheGamingEngine]

DooPliss: "If you can guess my *REAL* name, I'll give you a chance to get your body back." Thane: "Can't be too hard on repeat playthroughs or players coming from the original" *Sees the missing P on the keyboard* "Poop." DooPliss: "Got 'em." This is just a comment I thought of for comedy purposes, and I said "Poop" instead of the other word just to keep my channel's Family Friendly status. I hope everyone understands.

[@qwacktrap1459]

Mario being unabashedly a trans ally genuinely made me so happy when playing this chapter

[@recentlydeleted]

"I'm all for freedom of speech, but..." So then you're not for freedom of speech. That's fine, but at least be honest about it

[@ThaneGaming]

@@recentlydeletedsupporting freedom of speech does not have to mean supporting speech that is absolutely 100% free of limitations. I was trying to establish that a comment with a different opinion than mine is fine, so long as it isn't hurting anybody with hate speech. You're right though, I should have phrased it differently

[@nascour5991]

Finally you're covering one of the most improved chapters in the remake, and now one of my favorite. My favorite chapter is now chapter 8 cus it was fixed but yeah, can't wait for you to cover the rest of the game. Sidenote with the Vivian trans thing that's how I prefer political topics to be covered just mention them without heavy indoctrination, like you shouldn't be transphobic and all that bs cus people don't wanna hear that playing games. Just Vivian is trans and that's it we don't need to be preached like other modern games, nothing wrong with minorities in games btw I just feel like preaching to people with different views is immersion breaking and doesn't work. I shouldn't have to say this but I'm not transphobic and idc what someone is so long as they aren't hurting others. Edit: I have no problem with minorities my point is I think how a lot of games do rep with that doesn't work, (paper mario ttyd remake does it proper) not that trans rep or any minority rep shouldn't be a thing that's insane, I'm not that close-minded.

[@taatiklarian4516]

Appreciated the discussion ab menu text and such a lot, its not my first language but im a trans girl who played through the original spanish version recently and its essentially the same as the japanese ver it sounds like. Also came to the same conclusion, yea it wasnt handled super great being 2004 and all but she 100% reads as trans to me based on her description of herself

[@taatiklarian4516]

Also if anyone wants to reply "youre not a real woman" or some bullshit to this uh skill issue

[@alexcattv]

I didn't know about that Vivian fact. Slay, queen!

[@IsabruhMoment]

You handled the section on Vivian with such nuance and it genuinely makes me so happy, we’re so glad to have you as an ally 🏳️‍⚧️

[@ericanightshade]

Hot take: Vivian is a much better Trans icon than Birdo (I love Vivian! ❤)

[@michaelkaduck1915]

I really appreciated the way that they brought back Vivian's trans identity. I think the dialogue was well-written so that anyone regardless of age or amount of knowledge can understand her, and thus, open their minds. The switch remaster of this game is truly amazing with all the stuff they restored from the original version, while updating the gameplay, graphics and music! It's now my favorite version of the game!

[@Kitefel]

The darkest aspect of Paper Mario was the transphobia we found along the way

[@yusufthecatwithagun]

I am BAFFLED that the whole discussion about Vivian's gender identity lasted a whole 4 minutes and 30 seconds but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't pleased :]

[@ThaneGaming]

@@yusufthecatwithagun the segment was going to be at least 30 seconds to a minute longer so this is the trimmed down version 😆

[@BrawlSnorlax]

They game would be mutch shorter if that witch didn't protize Tranphobia to the mission.

[@jaredbarker9515]

I don't buy into the Trans ideology because I think it's unnecessary to label yourself based on which gender stereotypes you exhibit, same with doing elective surgery on your body to look more like the sex that is associated with those stereotypes or to look more like the sex you relate to more. I also don't like the way society treats people who don't buy into it. I see it as very hateful and intolerant, basically the same as religious bigotry. However, I don't think it's okay to hate trans people and I still like Vivian as a character, regardless of what gender Vivian identifies as. (If this comment is considered transphobic by many, than it's proof we live in an Orwellian society)

[@IsabruhMoment]

…Marilynn speech bubble…?

[@taatiklarian4516]

​@@IsabruhMomentguh

[@Charles-sb9ky]

bro can't handle transphobia😂

[@Alice-May]

Love VIvian