Dark Souls 2 Dissected #4 - Tombstone Revivals

[@calingligore]

Is this in game wait time?

[@illusorywall]

Yes, but I couldn't actually confirm at a deeper level exactly how the time check works. I'm only a novice when it comes to cheat engine but I searched for any kind of float values counting down, up, ANYTHING, doubles instead of float, among other things. I had no luck at all. I think that instead of running any kind of realtime counter from the moment of an NPC's death, it's more likely that it logs the moment the NPC's death occurs, then says "whatever that in-game time was + x seconds = when the tombstone is allowed to spawn". Something that backs this up, and that it's not just a simple countdown timer, is that when hacking their wait times to be shorter (I would change their wait times to be 1 second in cheat engine), I could get their tombstones to spawn right away. Then I would increase the timer to something higher again, and the tombstones would disappear after reloading the area. The fact that the tombstones could go away again strongly suggests that it doesn't just simply count down, because if it did it probably should've permanently ended the countdown when I changed it to 1 second. So when you reload an area or rest at a bonfire, it likely does the math "whatever that in-game time was + x seconds" every single time, and makes sure your current IGT is a bigger a number. If anyone can confirm/deny and find out more that would be highly appreciated. edit: I didn't address it in the video, but you don't have to wait in the same area the NPC is in.

[@capperbuns]

I killed off chloane and Killed covetous demon and mytha. And was stuck for hours on iron keep and came back there to get some items on that swamp and her grave was there

[@Wes]

@@illusorywall If CheatEngine allows one to change their in-game time, this theory could be tested. From a development perspective though I think it's the most likely answer. There's no need to have a dedicated revive flag when you can run a single conditional for their spawning. It's cheaper than running multiple clocks anyway.

[@Sharpstoned]

Hey dude i wish you would do a video on how the bone of order works in ds2. @@illusorywall

[@Spencer-wc6ew]

You should be able to pay the laddersmith's ghost to build a ladder only it ends up as a semi-transparent ghost ladder that's completely unusable.

[@Maesgae]

Nah, it's a ghost ladder on the bottom 3/4 that you can start climbing down and then you just drop

[@Snack-Sized-Femboy]

Ask him to build a ladder to heaven

[@DivineBanana]

You need to be cursed to use it 😂

[@LaBarata12]

Where were YOU when he built the ladder to heaven?

[@MrNazzrain]

or you need to be dead to use it

[@teldoroteldoro4476]

While I agree it was probably a mistake, I like the idea that Saulden’s grave timer was intentional. Maybe he has the longest timer since he’s the last person who’d want to come back to the living world. “To walk this earth… That’s the real curse.”

[@leonardo9259]

"man, I finally died" "Oh I gotta go back wth"

[@obsessivelyobsessed5263]

It's like when you get home from a long day and you plan to sleep all weekend, and then on Saturday you get a phone call from work

[@Lyghfe]

Just one question tho: why do you answer the phone on a weekend in the first place, if work is calling? If you have certain responsibilities to always answer the phone or if its an emergency etc. I get it, but thats kinda on you for accepting that position; otherwise I'd just turn off my phone or ignore it. Like seriously: what they gonna do? Fire you for not working/being available in your >free< time?

[@s0vnds]

​@@Lyghfethis. I don't pick up the phone on weekends and never to a number I don't know

[@Nuvizzle]

The soul cost to revive him is cheap because after 10 hours of being dead he realizes it's actually just as boring as being alive.

[@Trandhal]

This man is single-handedly filling out the Dark Souls II wiki with empirically tested data, slowly building up the knowledge to the benefit of all. Goddamn hero

[@TheJamesAraujo]

He's a hero indeed, but I don't think there is any benefit of knowing DS2 at all.

[@WhompingWalrus]

@@TheJamesAraujo muh hitboxes

[@specialnewb9821]

@@TheJamesAraujo My favorite of the 3.

[@TheJamesAraujo]

@@specialnewb9821 it's my favorite too xD

[@j.e.g.9513]

@@TheJamesAraujo understanding the mechanics of DS2 can allow for one to gain a better understanding of why certain mechanics (whether they are good or not) occur. And thus, a person learning game design can gain insight on how to do better or what to avoid. For players, it could allow them to experience the game with a greater sense of control and understanding, but if the game isn't replayed, then it can be used to appreciate the craftsmanship of games the other games. Personally, out of the dark souls games, 2 is my fav of the trilo. It rewards patience and dedication in a really nice way to me. But Bloodborne is currently the best Souls-like.

[@DankeyChang]

Crestfallen Saulden’s tombstone takes ten hours to appear, mirroring his desire to not be alive

[@FrankDux-uo7ig]

If he didn’t want to be alive wouldn’t it be immediate?

[@AutumnWynds]

​@@FrankDux-uo7igmy dude finally gets to die and get some rest and you want him to jump up at the bearer's attention in minutes lol

[@steel5897]

Always found this hilarious. A very uncanny tombstone just standing there where the NPC was, it reminds me of old Dragon Quest games where dead characters would literally turn into walking coffins.

[@kakyointhemilfhunter4273]

Dead characters turning into walking coffins? That sounds pretty metal

[@Demonskunk]

I dunno, Sauldon taking the longest fits with his general crestfallenness. He's not exactly chomping at the bit to come back.

[@kimballbelliston5925]

Man just wants to Rest In Peace

[@ladyabaxa]

And he's so cheap to revive because he doesn't have much willpower to resist your summons so you only have to dangle a few souls in front of his grave to get his attention.

[@MaximumRaxx]

Andre is such a patient soul, letting some punk punch him over 100 times before laying the dropkick down on them.

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

Then again, look at the size of 'im. The big lad probably doesn't even feel it.

[@jaws2210]

Andre would have to be some punk to let a patient soul hit him a hundred times like that bro

[@xantishayde-walker4593]

@@jaws2210 I've heard the idea that choosing not to do violence because you're not capable of it doesn't make you a good person because it's not really a choice. It's choosing not to do violence when you know you can because that is a real choice. In that case, I'd say Andre is a very patient and truly good mountain of a man.

[@jaws2210]

@@xantishayde-walker4593 the guy hitting him 100 times is always more patient though

[@cheesaliciousable]

At that point he's definitely given them courtesy enough.

[@Thraim.]

Making killed NPCs spawn somewhere as hollows where you then can pay human effigies to give them back their humanity would've been more lore friendly. It would also have been a bit of a side quest that further discourages players from killing NPCs left and right.

[@StarshadowMelody]

Imagine killing and reviving the same NPC ten times with that system and they just say "You need to stop this. You're wasting effigies, and you'll need them yourself. Either stop killing me, or leave me hollow next time. All right?" And then you do it an eleventh time, and they're like "Okay. Fine. You've made your point. Just remember you won't have anyone to blame but yourself when you can't find any more of them." Also come to think of it it could have some sidequest potential, like you _have_ to kill and hollow an NPC then lead them somewhere else(somehow) before reviving them to complete their questline for some reason.

[@MamaTrixxieAsmr]

@@StarshadowMelody I'd rather not lead enemies to places The stupid pig for the pickaxe was enough of a chore, and npc pathing is just...wouf. I have witnessed lucatiel walk of a cliff no less than 3 times, and get blown off into the water by the exploding hollows at least 6 times cause she stopped to fight them

[@lordilluminati5836]

That would require NPC's to have been undead, which not all of them would be.

[@redgarlicbred6228]

@@MamaTrixxieAsmr lmao I remember having to knock that stupid pig off that ledge near the second bonfire. Kept fucking up, didn't even use that pickaxe

[@MamaTrixxieAsmr]

@@redgarlicbred6228 they put a rare friggin exploding lizard down there But are too ruthless to have put a singular pig closer to it... Friggin trolls

[@ironrose6]

16:34 If you look in the ESD for Majula, you'll see that the only NPC's for that map who have the gravestone placement event are the Emerald Herald, Gilligan, Saulden, Cale, Melentia, Maughlin, Chloanne, Rosabeth, Lenigrast, Carhillion, and Licia. And yes, you're absolutely correct at 17:21 :). You'd need to place new gravestone OBJs in MapStudio, add new state machines to the event ESD that reference these new OBJs, edit the current state machines to keep them from respawning the way they currently do, and offer your firstborn to Velka for your sins.

[@capperbuns]

I want shalquoir dead so much. Gonna learn how to cheat engine to just kill a cat.

[@WhompingWalrus]

@@capperbuns Just be sure to launch Steam in offline mode so that you don't let DkS2 go online while you're hacking away. And to be safe, best back up your save beforehand, and then replace it afterward. Your save file is uploaded to From's servers each time you go online - when the main menu loads up - and if it detects certain unnatural, normally-unobtainable values in your safe file, it'll permanently softban your account. Not an issue if you just play in offline mode and don't ever take a modified save file back online (: If you wanna learn to CE, CE actually includes a great little tutorial which is pretty surprisingly comprehensive these days. You don't have to complete the whole thing in one go, and you don't even have to come close to have already learned how to hack games to pieces. But going further in the tut will always grant you new fancy tools with which to do so. & you can never be too paranoid about making *sure* you've closed CE before launching any other game. Some anticheats don't like to see CE running at all, even in the background, even if it's not attached to the game.

[@specialnewb9821]

@@WhompingWalrus Aren't the DS1-3 PC servers off because of that bug?

[@WhompingWalrus]

@@specialnewb9821 I think the multiplayer matchmaking is still down atm, ye. But I wouldn't trust that the login server would be down along with them, & I totally wouldn't trust it to not come back online in the middle of anyone hacking the game, lol. Best to be safe, imo.

[@CreativityCurve]

Honestly the most interesting thing in this video for me was learning that the elderly Fire Keepers even have names. I feel like you just filled a gap in my Souls knowledge that I didn't even know existed.

[@TheNickofTime]

You know, just yesterday, I was wondering when the Dark Souls Dissected series would take another look at DS2. This is perfect timing. The topic I'm most excited for is an exploration of its cut content, like in the out of bounds episode for DS1!

[@illusorywall]

Ooh yes, I was just thinking about how mechanic-y the last three episodes have been, so some cut content exploration might be in order soon.

[@darkphoenix2]

I don't think people really consider just how many things DS2 added to these games. There's the obvious new features like true dual wielding, bonfire ascetics, 4 ring slots, weapon parrying, etc., but there are also improvements to various things in Demon's Souls and DS1. If someone made a list of every positive change, it would be a pretty long list.

[@lordanonimmo7699]

Carrying three weapons,being able to choose to use pop many souls at the same time.

[@darkphoenix2]

@@lordanonimmo7699 Exactly, there are lots of small things you don't really think about.

[@stygianskies4776]

I will always maintain that DS2 is the best of the trilogy by a country mile in terms of gameplay, and that just a couple bad-egg aspects of it stick out to people to create its negative impression in the community (the narrative being the biggest offender, of course)

[@darkphoenix2]

@@stygianskies4776 Absolutely. I think it's fair to say 90% of the reason these games became popular is the gameplay, and that's definitely my main reason to play them, and DS2 is the most balanced and deep of them. The world design may not be as intricate and creative as DS1 and it doesn't have as much spectacle as DS3 but it's the best game when it comes to the pure combat experience.

[@Warcrafter4]

@@stygianskies4776 I never understood the narrative complaint as even the main youtuber who complained about it made an apology video. It was that his original video wasn't in good faith and he skipped the entire story despite complaining about it. Aka he lied about the story being bad.

[@sapphic_sophie]

Shoutout to the basilisks right outside of Ornifex’s room in shaded woods, which can kill her using curse breath through the door before you’ve even unlocked it.

[@cptnoremac]

That's brutal

[@karolinakira8576]

oooh so that's how she died

[@leonardo9259]

I always do a 4 run cleanup of that area before entering her room, after three times the area is clear of that BS lmao

[@arabidllama]

The Maiden in Black apologizing to you for not being able to die is such great storytelling.

[@dmdk1119]

It's very sad that when you try to kill her, she feels like she has let you down

[@michaelmcarthur2944]

Genuinely great and sad storytelling in only a few short lines

[@Techhunter_Talon]

Reminded of how in Elder Scrolls Oblivion that NPCs more easily forgive you for accidentally hitting them while in combat. Meanwhile, in Skyrim, one hit is enough to get the entire village wanting to mount your head on a pike. Thankfully, both allow for you to lower your fists or stow away your weapons and you'll likely disengage a fight with a normally friendly NPC while Guards will move in to initiate dialogue where you can either allow yourself to be arrested, to pay off your bounty, or continue the fight.

[@Monody512]

Except for whatever reason that doesn't always work in Skyrim. One time I was fighting a dragon in Morthal, and hit it with an Unrelenting Force. Apparently the shout went through the dragon and hit an NPC on the other side who was hitting the dragon in the butt. I killed the dragon, but the NPC remained hostile even after lowering my hands.

[@doctorvontacos4568]

No, in oblivion hitting a NPC in combat won't be a auto forgive if you do enough damage. Anytime you do it though you can block and interact with them to yield in combat.

[@MrNuclearz]

@@Monody512 what, something not working in Skyrim? That's crazy, never seen that before

[@chillhour6155]

It gets worse when chickens are involved

[@Trynt33]

@@chillhour6155 "YOU KILLED MAYOR CLUCKINGTON!"

[@mothmantis0708]

If you want a lore justification: Wellager's already a ghost, and seems to think he's alive and normal most of the time, even though he's slowly going crazy from being 'stuck in time', if we want to think of the ghosts like that. By extension: whoever killed Wellager did so right there in front of the throne room. My money's on Raime.

[@DonYagamoth]

I... Actually never knew about these tombstones at all - I've played through the game about 5 times, but never bothered to kill an NPC, so this is rather fascinating

[@MrDalisclock]

One time but this is literally the first time I've heard of this

[@illusorywall]

One kind of interesting detail I didn't mention in the video. I sort of glossed over NPC dialog, because for the most part there's nothing relevant. The tombstones normally just continue whatever interactions or loop of dialog that you'd expect, there's nothing cool like new dialog. But I did find Darkdiver Grandahl's dialog loop interesting (the one that happens when you kill him too soon). He simply says "Young Undead, my work is done…" and nothing else. I'm not sure what to make of this. The wikis claim that this is supposed to be part of his final dialog for gifting the Dragon Chime, but every video I've looked up starts one line later. Simply saying "I bequeath these to you. Take them on your pilgrimage…", instead of "Young Undead, my work is done… I bequeath these to you. Take them on your pilgrimage…". I don't know if I'm just missing something or if the wikis made a mistake. I could see how sifting through a text dump, or whatever, might've caused the wikis to put otherwise "unused" dialog in the wrong place. I know that's how a lot of dialog was added in the first place, rather than just manually typing everything out by hand. Either way, it is possibly the only example of unique dialog from a tombstone. And if it isn't, it's still not a line of dialog that he would ever be expected to loop, so they had to go out of their way to pluck that one specific line and apply it to his tombstone loop. I'm not sure if we see "customized" tombstone dialog like that anywhere else, but I'm pretty sure we don't.

[@Chyguy]

I always thought the tombstones were kind of morbidly funny This guy that killed you for whatever reason revives you and forces you to do business with them Also Saulden taking ten hours to reappear is some spicy secret lore about how he really don't wanna be here, even if its a typo Gotta get that lore somewhere

[@NemesisOgreKing]

With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.

[@AnterresGaming]

Ah yes, poor Maughlin gets killed for his dress every playthrough

[@nu1x]

Every speedrun you mean. There are alternatives for increased soul gain if you play slow.

[@capperbuns]

@Plain Water *sweats nervously*

[@nu1x]

@Plain Water Killing the guy after the Chariot boss is actually a better option (Nahr Alma set, esp. the armor which increases soul gain by 10%, 2x that of Tseldora Robes)

[@thisstatementisfalsenothin5312]

@@nu1x where is he after the chariot

[@obscure.reference]

@@nu1x sure but fuck maughlin gotta kill him anyway

[@c.l.a.u.d.e]

The "protective aura" in Sekiro is clearly a late patchwork, as all the regular NPCs have dialogues for getting attacked and dying, all of which can be "restored" by simply changing their TeamType. Considering how the Dragonrot seems to have been able to actually kill the infected at some point in development, I guess these two are the reasons why the Offering Box for drifted items next to Hanbei will always be empty in most playthroughs. Even more interesting, there are unused animations for the Sculptor and Kuro being injured, with the latter even dying and resurrecting on spot.

[@illusorywall]

It makes me wonder if they had a moment where they were like "wait a sec this dragonrot mechanic is way more brutal than Demon's Souls World Tendency, oops", then watered it down. 😆

[@c.l.a.u.d.e]

@@illusorywall Considering how dialogues and prompts suggest you had to keep your own "Blood Stagnation" under control before sacrificing Resurrective Power to craft one measily Dragonrot Pellet that can cure only a single NPC, yeah I can see that.

[@thewolfofthestars1847]

Since you bring them up: Bonfire Ascetics are the one mechanic that I really, really loved from DS2 and wish they brought back for DS3. The devs really seemed to care about making the NG+ experience different and more interesting, which I thought was super cool, especially considering a lot of people don't even get through the first NG for most games. If there's any interesting fiddly mechanics to do with Bonfire Ascetics or NG+ cycles, I'd love to watch a video from you about it!

[@cptnoremac]

There are quite a few things in DS2 I liked and wanted to see come back in other Souls games, including bonfire ascetics. Like power stances, and the ability to buff infused weapons. Who doesn't want a dark lightning sword or a poison flame hammer?

[@capperbuns]

I don't quite enjoy the fact that some things are locked behind ng+, yes it gives more value to ng+ but it also makes it a stain in the aprons to get those items because you have to either kill a boss in a stronger form. Or go through a area but harder this time.

[@IrvineTheHunter]

@@capperbuns I felt that a lot in ds3, because you have to beat the ENTIRE game, multiple times, but if it's just stronger gear, it doesn't matter too much. That said, DS2 has questions to answer in the form of ring of thorns +2, and the broken sin weapons [prisoner sword.] But a lot of DS2 NG+, was just a cleaned up gravelord mechanic.

[@kendlerkendler2667]

I didn't remember this at all from my playthrough. Made me realize that you could make an April Fool's video of a fake DS2 mechanic and I would probably believe you.

[@GuardianOwl]

Per the wikidot page it is interesting how they handle the Rat King and the Belfry Guards differently. The Rat King is clearly supposed to be one person since killing him causes the gravestone to only be in one place. He is moving between burrows to meet you. Though killing the Belfry guard in one location causes it to disappear from both locations. Given the distance and different dialogue it is reasonable to think they are supposed to be two different individuals. They were created by the puppetry magic of the Prince of Alken and the Princess of Venn to guard the tokens of their forbidden love, so perhaps the fate of the captains of the two guards are linked. When one dies, so too does the other.

[@jmv333]

3 Dark Souls Dissected videos in just 6 weeks of 2022! We are so lucky to be getting so much of this content! It is incredible and I can't even imagine the amount of work it takes for this frequency of turnout of such incredibly in depth and fascinating material! Your videos are some of my favourites of all time and I am so happy to get to see new stuff so often! Ah! It's amazing!

[@Ajandrew100]

Pumping it out before elden ring over shadows it

[@Leo-pw3kf]

Something that always bothered me about Dark Souls is that the in-universe story dictates that killing characters shouldn't result in their permanent death. They're undead! Like, they should just respawn when you rest at a bonfire and address your aggression in dialogue, raise prices, get angry, fight back, etc. I think that this DS II mechanic was a step in this direction, but failed to go all the way.

[@indigocloud8408]

Being undead doesn't guarantee you'll come back to life though, for all you know they could be on their 500th death and just around the tipping point where hollowing sets in and they become another wandering enemy.

[@NightZap]

I think it would be cool if NPC hollowed if you kill them. First, they revived as sane hollows, and you have to give them humanity to reverse their hollowing and souls as recompensation for attacking them before you can interact with them normally again. But if you kill them a second time, at which point you get their death drops such as Lautrec's ring, they go completely hollow and wander various areas as respawning enemies, punishing the player for murder by making the world harder to traverse. I bet a few players would think twice before killing Lautrec at Firelink for an earlier Ring of Favor and Protection, if that meant there was now a stronger version of him walking around in undead parish and harassing you every time you pass through that area.

[@theblah12]

@@indigocloud8408 Also if we take Solaire's line that "There's no telling how much longer your world and mine will remain in contact" and that "heroes centuries old (are) phasing in and out" literally, then each undead exists within their own separate reality, and by killing them they might still be revived, but the connection between their world and ours is severed in the process.

[@Leo-pw3kf]

@@NightZap That would be really cool. And, yeah, disencentivize players from murdering everyone for loot

[@Leo-pw3kf]

@@indigocloud8408 I mean... that works as sort of a headcanon, but when you first meet, say, Solaire, he is clearly purposeful and jolly. Doesn't make sense for him to hollow immediately after you kill him for the first time. He would still be searching for his sun when he respawned.

[@Jesse__H]

I couch-hit a couple NPCs back in the day, for sure. But as someone who's never intentionally killed an NPC, this is all new information to me!

[@chompythebeast]

I hate end-of-run, pre NG+ murder sprees in Souls games, but they _make_ you do it for unique equipment. The fact that some of them are so betrayed is heartbreaking. FROM knows what they're doing, putting loot like that behind guilt trip dialogue: torturing the immersed completionist

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

@@chompythebeast Eh, that's really only in DS1 though because there's an achievement for getting all of the "rare" weapons in the game. I don't think any NPC weapon is actually on the list the game checks for that, but the player doesn't necessarily know that, and so is incentivized to kill Andre or the Giant Blacksmith for their hammers a bit more there.

[@rondamguy9999]

@@MidlifeCrisisJoe You have to kill Priscilla and Gwyndolin in order to get the achievements though. Considering that they're explicitly not aggressive to you and have dialogue before the boss fight the intent was always there. Also Sif low health animation and alternative cutscene.

[@MidlifeCrisisJoe]

@@rondamguy9999 Yeah but they aren't the merchant/crafter NPCs that the sin and redemption mechanics were centered around. Those were optional bosses the player had to initiate conflict with. And Sif is completely different, as you have to kill Sif to get the 4 Kings Soul, and there's no sin or absolution related to Sif at all.

[@mkv2718]

The moon butterfly set npc interaction, while probably an oversight, is still really funny. So for that reason alone I’d wager they didn’t fix that

[@caiooa]

First you invade their dreams, now you also interact with their tumbstons and ghosts? Truly the Hollow Knight of Dark Souls games. Memes aside, i always liked how it is represented by the ghosts that comes from walls to attack you and the Chancellor. Even if you never kill a npc for their armor set, you will still meet those ghosts in a way. It helps that Chancellor was one my favorite npcs.

[@waltuh11121]

19:08 I love how he points with his finger like an angry grandpa. I've never hurted Saulden

[@7isAnOddNumber]

I haven't played DS2, but I have seen all of Our Flag Means Death. Hearing Izzy Hands' voice for one second shocked me so hard, I had no idea his actor was in this game

[@Hilton_]

Thank you for continuing to upload this type of content it's funny and interesting to see the mechanics in these games!

[@Rahnonymous]

I agree! After playing this game for 2k hours, platting and beating both versions, and doing all the builds you wanted, it's really hard to find new things about this game you never knew. These videos fill that job so succinctly

[@protonjones54]

Actually, I don't think Fromsoft went far enough with these player punishments. For example, if you decide to kill my boy Siegmeyer """""""by accident,""""""" he doesn't drop any souls on death, or any items, he does not leave a tombstone, you instantly get ambushed by 20 Basilisks who inflict curse on you, your game crashes, your save file gets deleted, then Miyazaki comes to your house and beats your ass

[@Greywander87]

And you think that isn't going far enough?

[@schw4rztee502]

Well, why is he just sitting around under some stairs while I'm Zweihander plunge attacking the manserpent that just fell down? And why is this onion of steel so fragile?!

[@cheesaliciousable]

Alternatively, you could kick him into one of the floor panels for a quick reflex test... Or see if he can stop a boulder with his bare hands. If you have terrible luck in Lost Izalith he can land in one of the blender demons and get his armor rekt.

[@Slayer_of_Demons]

These dissected videos don't come out often and they're always incredibly interesting to watch. Usually when a new one comes out I find myself rewatching the other ones. Probably my most anticipated series on youtube, great job.

[@pependosnik7507]

Forgiveness? Jokes on you, I killed Oswald on my first playthrough cuz i mistook the guy for channeler

[@TheAntiSanta]

Chandler from friends?

[@hollylucianta6711]

I did the same thing, the guy scared the hell out of me as I was climbing down the ladder and I just started hacking away.

[@imethdup5050]

Very first playthru of ds1 i did the samw thing was out of estus aftwr the gargoyles and thought he was gonna ambush me on my way out the door

[@AntiNihilist]

First time I played Dark Souls I killed Oswald. He surprised me because I thought he was a statue, then realized it was a human entity, and since he wasn't there when I entered it makes more sense to suddenly pop a new enemy into an area than a new ally, especially in an area that was recently hostile

[@pockystyx4087]

there' something more morbid about this system than the older ones. Like; using souls to bring these poor bastards back, just to buy stuff from them. And all the while; they don't even remember being killed by you.

[@ovencorgi]

Don't know if anyone mentioned it prior, but the 3 hit mechanic to anger the npc's is a lot like how they were mindful of players breaking chests. You have to hit multiple times to break a chest, even a great club will have to hit twice if you are intending to break a chest. While not something I'm fond of, it is an interesting mechanic.

[@Markus-8Muireg]

Sadly enemy hits count as well, so if you're unlucky your anti-mimic safety hit oneshots the chest.

[@ovencorgi]

@@Markus-8Muireg yeah there's a specific one that comes into mind after ruin sentinels

[@stuv1996]

@@Markus-8Muireg Just check the chain to see if it's a mimic without hitting it.

[@Markus-8Muireg]

@@stuv1996 there is no chain in ds2

[@Hello-lf1xs]

In DS2, iirc all mimic chests have padlocks or something - though I’m not actually sure if that applies to wooden chests, but you can look at the side of the chest to see pink

[@tripple-a6031]

"Finally, I will have peace..." Maybe he just doesn't want to come back?

[@selfawaretrashcan4594]

I know I’m quite late to this video, but I always appreciate your first hand experiences with testing mechanics in the early days

[@illusorywall]

Thank you! I'm working on another DS2 video that'll cover something else that I wanted to know more about back in the day but didn't get to do the deep dive until now. :)

[@86fifty]

Oooh, I learned the names of the other Firekeepers from this! Considering how "Shanalotte (child)" was listed in the credits with a voice-actor for English as well, even though she was cut from development, I thought those extra NPC names were just leftovers as well. But I don't have the artbook that would give that info for certain.

[@arkan_k4c582]

I was looking so hard for this info last year. I love you Illusory wall, don't know why nobody bothered to check how gravestones worked in depth before

[@Celastrous]

Editing improvements are really good. I love this series

[@TheMaddWatcher]

These dark souls dissected videos are seriously the best content on KZbin. Continue making a These forever and I’ll be the happiest man alive. Thank you very much.

[@homefront1999]

Dark Souls 2 I kid you not was one of the most chaotic first playthroughs I ever had. I was young and relied on my friend with a modded character to coast through DS1. So DS2 I was by myself. Last Giant I kid you not I died to the most tell at least the mid point of the game. I struggled a ton, I eventually started relying on summons, but died too much and would burn through effigies. I eventually ran out and at some point got desperate. Thought I might as well kill the firekeepers at the start. Eventually learned you can respec and was devestated. Then there was the case where I opened the door for the bird lady and immediately started attacking her, and then the scorpion dude that I immediately started attacking. I screwed myself over so much.

[@banehthistle7709]

Hey man, I really appreciate these videos. I learn cool new stuff forsure, but the things I already know are a joy to hear you go over. Your depth and passion are A1

[@God_gundam36]

Stuff like this just adds to how weird dark souls 2 feels in asceticis compared to the other souls games It just feels so fantastical, more like a fairy tail than a post apocalyptic fantasy world. Like literally ghosts rising from tombstones instead of the more grime idea of waking up a few hours later and slowly decaying over centuries

[@chaoticstarfish3401]

Aesthetics*

[@scantyer]

wrong

[@ValeryPetrov1]

Fantastic. Yet another Dark Souls mechanic I never knew about, despite playing it for 50+ hours. Thank you for your work on dissecting it! It's a solid stuff.

[@FooMaster117]

I was this many days old when I found out about the tombstones in DS2. I've 100%'d the game and played through at least 5 full runs, so really surprised to learn about this. I think I was genuinely so worried that I wouldn't be able to complete an NPC questline if I killed them that I never purposely attacked them, and just got lucky with regards to accidentally striking any. Brilliant vid!

[@arcticdino1650]

I like to imagine that the bell keeper's ghost physically picks up his grave and moves it between spots

[@KonStafylides]

Love the DS2 analysis! This channel is one of a kind

[@blakebailey22]

I'm so excited for when you start making Elden Ring Dissected videos!

[@RED01SEA]

finally another DS2 video , i"m way more interested in DS 2 stuff compared to the rest of the series

[@mongrelshadow14]

In the end the mechanic doesn't sit right with me. Having tomb stones for unimportant/halted questline characters just seems like they exist because the mechanic exists. Then there's the weirdness of the lore conflictions with it. And on a more personal note it bothers me how disconnected the interactions are. They have no reaction to being killed let alone being dead in general. There's debates that could be had on why it is that way (probably the easiest being they didn't want anything important dialogue wise tied to killing npcs,) but regardless it never felt right. It's still an interesting mechanic none the less.

[@GuardianOwl]

The tombstones seem to be the same thing that happened to Chancellor Wellager, just in a more imperfect form since the NPCs don't stay summoned. He appears to have no awareness of his own spectral circumstances, so I guess they follow _The Sixth Sense_ rules of the dead not knowing they are dead. Talking Undead NPCs staying dead in DS1 didn't make any sense lore-wise either, some things just happen for the sake of gameplay mechanics.

[@jdantas6612]

Honestly, I do feel like it is in line with the lore, what with ds2 having a preoccupation with the way a soul lasts after death. It gives you a boss soul after every boss, as opposed to ds1, which only did it after certain bosses, and once you go into ng+, there's a bunch of old souls from long dead ds1 characters that are said to still have an influence over the land. Their lack of reaction to being dead is weird, but I think really the only reasonable option for most of them would be to still be hostile and refuse you services, which would defeat the point of the tombstone mechanic in the first place. Plus, all of the characters that have tombstones appear for them are the total of the npcs that haven't gone hollow. So, perhaps it's them not having gone hollow means that their soul is yet able to exert it's influence on the world from beyond the grave.

[@MrFluffyWolf]

@GuardianOwl Talking NPC's staying dead in Dark Souls could be explained in several ways. Depending on the character, they may or may not even be undead. Or if they are undead, then they may simply have been reduced to a wandering mad hollow. The other possibility is they could have "given up" and gone still. We see this in all 3 games in the form of the "corpses" that litter the land. Eventuality when a hollow loses all willpower, it just gives up. The DS2 blacksmith kinda gets at the idea vaguely in dialog. Further, we actually see this in DS1 with Siegmeyer's corpse in Ash Lake. The dialog with his daughter combined with his body simply laying there imply he isn't gonna get up anymore, despite being undead. So those "dead" undead NPC's are either wandering hollows, or just simply.... _crestfallen._

[@chillhour6155]

*accedentally hits Andre* , ok screw the lore

[@Greatot]

Can't wait for the Elden Ring dissected videos. The game has so many interesting mechanics, the second I saw a normal enemy's eyes suddenly glow, I knew this channel would have a lot to cover

[@illusorywall]

Thanks! I hope to have my first Elden Ring Dissected up before the end of the week! :)

[@imethdup5050]

I love the golden eyed enemies esp when using rune boosting gear

[@armandsoulliard3296]

As an aside: the fact that you still update the wikis with your findings, so many years on, is admirable. It's a reason I always use the wikidot wikis for pre-DS3 content instead of their Fextralife counterparts!

[@lunnefisk4344]

I always love seeing more about DS2!

[@holschermarc]

I wanna take a moment to thank u for all ur incredible work. Sure u love the games like we do and its kind of a thing u wanna do, but that shouldnt deminish the insane amount of time and work u put in uncovering every detail of those games. I think i speak for the entire Soulsborn Community if i say that i value u and ur work greatly. Continue being as great as u are and dont go hollow, we would all miss u.

[@salbasile]

I've never left a KZbin comment before, but I have to let you know it's Christmas day any time I see a video published by you. Keep it up, man.

[@illusorywall]

Thank you, I appreciate it!

[@bigdog517]

Excellent video! Still can't get kver how much I love that intro music

[@vibrations999]

My day just got all the more better! Thankyou for this

[@CookieTrainFTW]

Finally, Ive been waiting for more Dark Souls 2. this should be great!

[@Megamike144p]

I have been waiting for more DS2 Dissected for so long.

[@slommie1649]

Almost always watch these vids as soon as I see them. Great stuff

[@erikreddington461]

Bro I dig your shit. I want more. Maybe that's part of the secret. Always leave us wanting more. Great original channel bro. Thank you

[@LautrecOfCarim]

If I left a gravestone behind every time I get murdered we'ld be living in an age of gravestones by now. Heh...

[@Don-ds3dy]

I had no idea these mechanics existed in DS1/DS2, I guess I've never attacked/killed a friendly NPC that wasn't asking for it (or didn't have a cool set of armor)

[@Vonalbright7]

I love this channel and all the info you bring to the souls community, even if it's random obscure knowledge. I hope you keep making these awesome videos, and I hope that part 2 for the Mr. Gimmick video comes out soon! Keep up the interesting content👍

[@Bioguy5]

I have a soft spot for Dark Souls II, so I really appreciate these videos. I've been looking forward to your video about the world layout of DSII. Anything that adds to the lore is a big plus for me,

[@illusorywall]

Thank you! I promise to start continuing back in that direction, my next episode will be about another DS2 prototype map. :)

[@Ready_Set_Boom]

After playing DS3 and DS1, I was so confused when I saw the first tombstone when I killed Pate.

[@HiCZoK]

NICE! Love your vids. Can't wait for another one. Vanilla and SOTFS obscure differences would be very interesting

[@charoleawood]

One of my absolute favorite games and I had no idea this mechanic existed. Demon's taught me to NEVER, under any circumstances, attack an NPC unless I absolutely wanted them to die.

[@charoleawood]

Oh, but the Milfanito at the shrine has died for me several times and reappeared as a gravestone, that damn pyromancer usually gets her with splash damage. I never put two and two together that this was a mechanic for all of the NPCs...

[@aidan_g]

I must have always played this too nice. Played through DS2 about 5 times and never knew this mechanic existed.

[@zsebesimarcell495]

I've been waiting for this🙏

[@Koppu1doragon]

If we cheat to kill the cat it laughs at us and comes back to life.

[@endermage77]

What I find most cheeky about NPC aggro is that the position the game places you at when you spawn into Majula is *facing directly toward Melentia.* So if you tab out after warping home and accidentally fire off a spell...

[@MazeMaker4Life]

Kind of wish there was unique dialogue for each character when you revive them. "Why the fxck are you here, you killed me", or "what, you again? You here to kill me again? XD

[@eternalnate]

I played through this game three times and I never knew this.

[@dragoonman1478]

I love the 8-bit intro music. Makes me calm and happy

[@illusorywall]

thank you!

[@dragoonman1478]

@@illusorywall idk if it'd be weird to you but I admit to binging your ds2 dissected videos, especially the gutter one, quite a few times over these past months. Idk why but after so many times, that tune just helps me relax now. All your videos are great but the gutter one fascinates me the most. Everything about ds2 and it's cut content fascinates me. Keep up the good work man

[@illusorywall]

@@dragoonman1478 Thanks so much, I do really appreciate it. And I've also got good news, my next episode will be about more cut DS2 content. :)

[@HeavenlyHavoc]

Yes!! Was just bored and opened KZbin and now there's a new ds2 dissected

[@bruce1947]

The dissected series is currently the best on youtube.

[@pendantblade6361]

God, I love these deep dives on super obscure mechanics!

[@665Sunshine]

Dark Souls II: Scholar of the first Serial Killer Great video. Now we can feel even less regret, without penalty.

[@uNpOpuLArOpInION69]

Thank you for this in depth clarification! I soak this kind of trivia up like a sponge

[@kristianj.8798]

I like to think that Shalquoir's laughing, if you manage to kill her, is expressing a kind of silent acknowledgment of the fact that you wouldn't have been able to do it, unless you went as far as tinkering directly with the game's numbers

[@lostindeadspace6098]

I love your videos. Your very cohesive and I can tell you have passion for the souls series that I respect ✊

[@eastcoast_red89]

Love I can put 1000 hours into this game and this is the first I've heard of this mechanic. What. A. Franchise.

[@bastian_5975]

for the aggro mechanics, I think it'd be better to have a temporary agro/forgiveness thing where you can do something like use some special item, unequip a weapon (potentially with some way to sheath your weapon), do some gesture, etc. to signify that you accidentally attacked them, but then also add in both a cap to how many times you can hit and how much damage you can do before they don't forgive you. Hell, depending on the mechanic they use, it could be also extended to give a way for you to surrender during a duels/pvp, allowing you to take a less severe punishment for losing (with, of course, some way to reject the forfeit and continue fighting)

[@megalogoro6388]

I told my older brother to just run in talk ornifex and run away, but he got stuck in the room by the basilisks and they killed her 😅He was pissed when he learned he couldn't get boss weapons until new game+ good memories😂

[@ivanlagayacrus1891]

1:27 gave me flashbacks to my sl1 ds3 run that I ended up having to do without Tears because of a tragic R2 bump

[@gyrojet1704]

1:31 christ i never knew andre would just dropkick you jesus

[@MrDalisclock]

I finished SotFS, all 3 dlcs and literally didn't know this was even a thing until now

[@TengrioftheCrimsonSky]

Gotta know if you pre-ordered Elden Ring, I feel like you really deserve to get it free for all the hard work you put into essentially translating the series from "random events" into known interactions.

[@BEEZUS45]

I think the 10 hour wait time is only because his line "finally I can have peace". If the tombstone came back immediately, the line would be goofy.

[@Redvox57]

I'm sad there isnt more dissection videos of ds2. I'd love to see more out of bounds, or cut areas, even if just a speed run through everything. Or even a map speculation video where the final areas were all originally meant to be placed

[@cheatsykoopa98]

I actually like number of hits better as an aggro system the first time I met the rat king I thought he was just another enemy and attacked him, and since I played DS1 and 3 first, I thought I had screwed up a questline, but then I realized it was alright

[@erikreddington461]

For those whom likely won't see my comment response from IllusWall himself...he's planning on dropping an Elden Ring episode next week! So excited (and hopefully not too big a secret) and yes I'll keep commenting anything for algorithm till you get subs you deserve, my master. ;-)

[@jewpower42]

Thank you so much for the work you do