Dark Souls: The Board Game (Steamforged Games) Review by Man Vs Meeple

[@EBToriginal]

And I thought I was feeling impatient for my copy to show up before.

[@liesureleeminis8268]

Jennifer R I'm there with ya. with reviews today, I'm feeling like a crackhead waiting for my fix

[@doules42]

Yeah, but can I invade your map and backstab you? Looking to solo this...along with Gloomhaven. Praise the sun for soooo many great games!

[@EBToriginal]

I am looking at it like say Fire Emblem or Shining Force. Grid based turn based strategy RPG. Just with interchangeable chunks instead of totally preset levels.

[@DuraheLL]

Look up Massive Darkness! (the board game)

[@satuhogosha]

Souli Thong haha, i bought bloomhaven and dark souls boardgame yesterday. love it.

[@sambright8322]

"There you have Andre, he is the giant" Ah, what a beautiful slip-up. No, not Andre the Giant, the wrestler, but Andre the Blacksmith :P

[@nathancurnutt8074]

Sam Bright he might of been remembering that there is (was ;_;) a giant black smith.

[@CRidgway]

Wonder why the stamina tokens aren't green? Oh well, looks like fun!

[@Aldenwar]

It was made black to make it easier for people with color blindness to recognise it as far as I know.

[@atinybard6594]

It was a colorblindness issue, they couldnt tell which cubes were which so they made them red and black. I got mine yesterday and they seem like they could easily be repainted

[@venrajful]

And i'm just sitting here serfreshing my mail waiting for a tracking code. Great review please more of this game

[@DieNische]

I would like to Add that Galaxy Defenders showed how to make Boss fights brutal, intense and tactical as well.

[@Chuusoul1]

Great review! Couple of questions. How are the minis? Was teaching/learning the game difficult? Is it a long set up time?

[@Chuusoul1]

Thanks, I'm super excited for my copy now!!

[@BackLOGmovies]

Heck yeah, thank you guys so much for the review! I'm personally happy to see the Rotten Ghru Dagger. One thing we haven't seen a lot of are the effects like bleed and poison. Did those come up for you? How did those feel to you?

[@TheSpiritDr]

Thank you for prioritizing this review. It means a lot.

[@midknightfox17502]

I have a gameplay question. Many thanks in advance if you get around to answering it! If you go in and fight the boss, it powers up at a certain health and the deck shuffles when you add the heat up card. What happens if you die AFTER that heat up card and shuffling occur? Does the heat up card get removed and the new order is what you have to remember? Do you keep it as it is and just have to fight the boss, but it's harder now and you'll add another heat up card when the time is appropriate? Or are you supposed to make note of the attack order before adding the heat up card so that you can restore it to how the boss faught before the heat up card got added?

[@davidwaybright]

Interesting question. We have actually not encountered that yet. I don't have the rules with me at the moment, but my guess is that it the fight would start fresh without the heat-up card, and potentially even different pre-heat-up cards (if that makes sense). The bosses we've encountered start with a base deck, and not even every card from that base deck. My guess (and I stress guess) is that you would fight the boss just as though you were doing it for the first time. That's how it would feel in the video game too.

[@jaredw.7712]

forums.steamforged.com/index.php?/topic/35980-rulebook-unclear-rulesmechanics/& This is a thread about rules questions and clarifications. In the entry (summary) post you will find this quote about the behavior deck from Alex Hall, one of the designers, "The 'resetting boss' rules you're looking for can't be found because they don't exist... Quite simply because they don't need to. The wording of 'Once the players choose to enter the Fog Gate' on page 28 is very much intention. Entering the Fog Gate is the trigger for the start and setup of the boss fight, and these steps occur each time you enter a boss room irrelevant of whether you've already fought the boss and lost or not. So the second time you face a boss there may be cards in the deck you haven't seen yet (running on the assumption that players haven't sat and studied them all. Some players will want all the information, some will want to go in blind.) Short version: You do the 'Starting a Boss Encounter' (page 28) steps each time you enter a boss room, irrelevant of if you've already fought the boss or not." Here is a link to the rulebook PDF: static1.squarespace.com/static/56728f72a128e6b1e548ec55/t/58ebed0b15d5db2d9d8ac36c/1491856693806/DS-Core-Rules-lores.pdf

[@HistoricalConflict]

I love the video game I love this. much better than the crappy 3-5 player bloodborne card game (which really missed an opportunity) also my standard rule is if tom vassel hates it I'll probably love since he's basically a sad Euro Gamer. good review thanks

[@-LiQuidGaS-]

Difficulty and fun wise, how would you compare the boss fight in this game to fights in Kingdom death monster? Would you still recommend getting this game if I have KDM on the way this summer? And playing through the campaign, does the fight ever feel repetitive after awhile given how blend and same-y the tiles look? One of the things that deterred me from backing this was the map tiles that made the game looked really mandune (and in perpration for how much KDM was going to kill my wallet). Thanks in advance for your answers!

[@-LiQuidGaS-]

Man Vs Meeple Awesome am glad to hear that! Am glad there was no kickstarter exclusives so I might just pick that up at the retail. I was hesitant at first but your review made it look amazing, thanks!

[@brandonyoung7138]

Question: Would you say it gets aggravating when you draw items that you simply cannot use for many rounds until you're high enough level, or because you've invested in the wrong stats? I heard that was a concern, that a team may acquire unusable equipment often. Thanks.

[@LoremasterRyan]

Brandon Young so I think what people have missed is that you can sell back items and gain a soul, which is what it costs to buy an item. So if you've got awful items you can sell some later game stuff to get mid game stuff. However once you sell something it's gone irrc. So you have to make a hard decision.

[@davidwaybright]

If you're playing with a group of 3 or 4 players, this shouldn't really be an issue for the most part. As a team, it's wise to follow the built-in strengths that each class is meant for. If you do, then there is plenty of equipment that will come up with almost every draw. The game, like Dark Souls, can be aggravating at times, but I never felt it was in a bad way. It's certainly not perfect, but we thought it was a really good time.

[@brandonyoung7138]

David Waybright I appreciate the response. I was very skeptical of the game, but after your input I will be acquiring it soon.

[@rienmoeyaert5642]

Sell back items to gain a soul? Is that so? I looked in the rulebook and did not find any mention of this rule. If I missed it, could you point it out to me? Could be a good house rule either way :)

[@davidwaybright]

Rien, you know what? In retrospect, I think we may have misinterpreted something we read in the rule book on this topic. I don't think there is a sell-back, as I too have looked for it again in the rule book. But like you said, there is probably a good house rule to be formulated to help burn through that deck.

[@procowtipper1]

I was wondering how many of your play throughs, if any, ended with you actually losing the game? I've seen the rule book and know how the sparks work and everything, but is the difficulty pretty linear going from one player to two or more?

[@esierrra9]

been waiting for this one. thanks!

[@Artemisth]

You guys just got me even more excited to get my copy! Great review also, and it seems that from what you have said the board game replicates the video game experience quite well, which is what I wanted. Just one question, will your live playthrough be uploaded online?

[@jellyguides]

where do you buy it from??

[@TheManAmongAll]

For a game system based around learning and improving your success rate based on experience and skill, why in the hell is combat dice orientated ... :| Surely they could have come up with something more fitting.

[@davidwaybright]

I must admit that the one area that could have had more of a presence thematically, is the experience (not XP) gained through repeated attempts as in the video game. Not sure how they could have done that. Maybe tile set-up cards that had progressively weaker/easier variations each time you go through the tile.

[@Deuterium2H]

My only comment is that those Blue Yeti microphones look absolutely ridiculous when used in this setting, which is an intimate, 2-person desktop presentation. They may be fine vocal audio mics, but they should be heard, not seen...especially when they take up so much real-estate on a tiny set. Reminds me of this scene from "Top Secret": kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3vShXWiecuJns0

[@AquamanHoodie]

These guys sound like Red Letter Media's "Nerd Crew".

[@Sacrilege83]

That is not a compliment.

[@georgestorey3087]

Am I right by saying you can go back to the bonfire room to level up and what not without using a spark?

[@Slick_Tails]

George Storey Should also point out your character luck token (which you can use to re-roll a single die) can be reset WITHOUT using the bonfire, as technically you are using the fire keeper for that, so you can get it back after each encounter. Also, health and stamina replenish after a successful encounter. Your estus and class-specific hero ability, however, can only be reset by using the bonfire.

[@georgestorey3087]

SohJinh Yeah, thanks. Managed to work all that out now I have the rule book in hand.

[@wyattfertig3026]

Do you know when the stamina/damage system changed? During the kickstarter I seemed to remember that they were using markers. The cubes seem way better.

[@wyattfertig3026]

Man Vs Meeple Well I also seem to remember most of it coming out in an expansion packs so fret not (although it will likely be way more expensive separately haha)

[@theperson98]

Wyatt Fertig It was probably about halfway through the campaign when they finally made the change permanent, but I think they were looking for the best replacement for the markers from the beginning. And the only thing you will have missed out on from the Kickstarter is a discount on the expansions. There were no exclusives, just a sweet discount for the backers. Just as it were, £80 on KS, £100 MSRP.

[@wyattfertig3026]

theperson98 Good to know!

[@bobdole8830]

a lot of your research is lacking, the game takes way longer, some of the stuff about the video game were not on point etc.

[@woltergeist9175]

The consequences of bad luck when dodging are way too harsh in the game. The dodge mechanic has too much variance based on luck. To fix this I implemented a dodge mechanic in the game that I call 'low variance dodging'. Use the normal dodge mechanic when a failed dodge isn't fatal. Use the low variance dodge mechanic when a failed dodge is fatal (under normal dodge rules). Low variance dodging means that you perform a dodge dice roll for every single damage and take damage equal to the number of times the dodge dice roll failed.

[@yogibbear]

I would have preferred if you showed more of the mechanics of the board game at play rather than clips from the video game. I just want to go play the DLC now for DS3 rather than play this boardgame.

[@yogibbear]

Ok awesome. That will be much more helpful!

[@midknightfox17502]

Man Vs Meeple Will there be a VOD available of this after it happens? I'm not certain I'll be able to catch it live.

[@jwspiker]

Dice Tower didn't like this, i personally loved Demon souls, wasn't able to get into Dark Souls thus far, and no time to play it now. Is there any character permanence in the game? From scenario to scenario do you reset your stats?

[@jwspiker]

thanks good to know that is how the campaign works. I'll be keeping an eye on this. part of what makes the Video game work is the feeling you get when playing it. Demon souls is one of my favorite experiences playing video games. Not sure this game translates to that well or not.

[@sublimentality1]

Great review MvM! I must say you really DO feel like you "get" what the game is trying to achieve. Your guys' taste in gaming definitely reflects more of my own than certain other reviewers. Based on your review I'm confident I'll enjoy this game when it arrives hopefully really soon.

[@RicoCordova]

Adem Selzler I was just noting this too. I find most reviews are so focused on family friendly gaming experiences. We are an adults-only, exclusive gaming group. All the puff coming from so many (other) reviewers forces me to watch so I can be aware of what's coming out; but their thoughts and opinions, however, totally worthless to me. MvM matches my tastes in games more than any other (that I've found). Except Splendor...how can you not love Splendor? haha

[@sublimentality1]

Rico Cordova Hehe I know what you mean. Although I play games with my 10 year old son a lot so I enjoy family games as well. I guess, like my musical tastes, I enjoy all styles and themes of games. Lately MvM has been covering my needs quite well with Rahdo picking up the slack on many of my other needs. At least Rahdo is honest about his biases so you know before even watching if he won't like it. I think I may have to go through my KZbin subscription lists and make some adjustments.

[@sublimentality1]

Splendor has worn a little thin with me as of late. I am however much looking forward to Century: Spice Road as a possible replacement. I have it preordered with the mat.

[@garesonc9672]

@Rico What "non family friendly game" reviews have you appreciated on MvM? When it comes to The Dice Tower's family friendly mantra it is about their media presentation, not their preferences. In fact, I see far more crossover in approval of good games by DT and MvM than disagreement. Your preferences may differ from the DT and that is fine, but I am confident that the "family friendly" issue is irrelevant. In fact, though they don't say it, I have found Man v Meeple to be family friendly.

[@RicoCordova]

@William Smith You're just trolling now. I didn't mention anything about DT. I wouldn't say MvM has "non family friendly" content. The games they feature have a higher percentage of adult oriented games. As a single example, I wouldn't expect that DS is appropriate for people of all ages - therefore it is not family friendly. Yes, DT did a review on DS too, but they also did like 558 reviews on HABA games. I don't recall ever seeing a HABA game being reviewed here. "A higher percentage of adult oriented games". If I see a reviewer give a positive review to a kids game, then I will take note that they are more likely to differ in gaming tastes than myself. Nothing definitive. Just more likely.

[@timpavey3979]

Thanks for the review guys. I was worried after having backed a lot of the extras for this game on Kickstarter and having seen the largely negative review on the Dice Tower but am reassured that this game is for me having watched your comments. It would seem that a great deal of the video game series has been successfully captured. You are clearly fans of the video games and Tom Vasel admits he hasn't played them. Do you think that is the main reason for the hugely contrasting options on the board game?

[@windyhillbomber]

Backed Kickstarter release for Birmingham and the updated Lancashire version. Have never played and so I'm very excited to get my hands on both games. Agree 100% regarding the graphic treatment. Game looks gorgeous.

[@420BilboSwaggins]

What were your play times like?

[@davidwaybright]

We've only had the game for about a week, so not a ton of data. With that said, all of our games have been in the 90 minutes to 2 hours range. As long as you're not learning as you go, it's really just up to how much you want to re-try any of the tiles before heading in for the boss fights.

[@trashmyego]

Does Man Vs Meeple ever not just heap praise on the games they 'review'? I'm getting this overwhelming sense that you should be using a different label for the games you cover, it's always universally positive.

[@garesonc9672]

Then maybe "review" isn't the way to frame the games that you highlight. Perhaps "Game Highlight" or "Games We Like", "Games We Recommend" or something else? I honestly have no problem with the way you run your channel...it's a great one, other than if you are "reviewers" then I think that means you discuss "The good, the bad, and the ugly" of games to cement your credibility. I understand that you want to stay positive...if that is your channel's identity that's your right. However, even if you bring us one of the games that you recommend, at least be sure to tell us of any possible drawbacks. Just my two cents.

[@davidwaybright]

Well it's still a review, so I think we're just getting down to semantics. Jeremy and I were just talking about this today. When it's all said and done, we want to help guide people to good games. We don't really want to spend our time guiding people away from bad ones. To be quite honest, I think most people are able to identify the bad ones without much assistance. The drawbacks comments is certainly valid, and we have pointed out many "cons" in some of our reviews for sure. Maybe we'll make an effort to identify some more of those when they exist. Thanks for the comment, and for watching.

[@Doomonster]

Great Objective Review on the positive side. But you missed out the dark spots, the bad things overall that i cannot give you a thumps up. Still you kept the review clear without any fan-ism. THanks for that.

[@davidwaybright]

As I'm sure you know, we like shining a positive light when a game deserve it. With that said, we might try to discuss any "cons" that a game has a little more often. In many cases though, one person's con can be another person's pro for a game. For example, in Dark Souls, the game can feel very punishing at times. Many people might not like that, but others may thirst for the challenge--particularly those who embrace what the video game tries to do.

[@haydenadams3503]

Love the Coldplay shirt, David!

[@pryzmgaming]

Just ordered this and after watching Vassals review(hated it) and this, im pretty torn if i made the right purchase.

[@BrianLiles]

Thanks for the input fellas. I can't wait for my copy to arrive!!

[@GaijinKnibb]

Don't know if you have a gameplay embargo but if you did a short play through you would be the first to do so. There is a lot of people waiting to see gameplay rather than just the first half of a demo boss battle.

[@jcmelon5771]

That play time is way off. Steamforge's own play through video, grinding to the mini boss and on to the dancer, totalled about 4 hours. And they had no messing about, no breaks for the loo or food, and they really knew the rules. So my group would be looking at a 6 hour game I reckon. Seemed repetitive with very little in the way of interesting decisions, outside of risk-reward regarding stamina spent against damage likely to be received. And because you get more powerful towards the end of the game the game gets less exciting rather than ramping up. I'm thinking of selling my copy.

[@MitchAV66]

You don't get souls x2 for every enemy you defeat in an encounter.... You get 2 per player.

[@matts3155]

I see Ethnos sitting back there. I have it shipping next week!

[@davidwaybright]

We've barely had a chance to play it, but we plan to get it to the table a couple times very soon.

[@thylight6620]

I really wish I watched this review before the Dice Tower's.

[@BarryDoubletBoardGames]

Would it change how you feel? It didn't for me.

[@Stroggoii]

Both reviews are very complementary and paint a better picture of the game. Tom doesn't care about the IP and found all the aspects of the game that could bore or dissuade an average dungeon crawling/light skirmish fan. Jeremy and Dave like the video game and found the flavor good enough to forgive said mechanics. Now it's up to you if you want to play this game for the crawler/skirmish mechanics or the IP.

[@Melinikus]

Another thing to remember is Tom didn't like the randomness of this game... Loves arcadia quest though and you could conceivably one shot every opponents model buy chaining crits every single combat. Also Tom got at least one rule wrong. End all be all of this is if it isn't family friendly or has a dark theme Dice tower will not like it, and they will (correctly) not deny this. Reviewers are different. I don't look to the game boy geek for miniatures games reviews because he says he doesn't like them.

[@Sacrilege83]

There's a second Dice Tower reviewer that LOVES this game. So even Dice Tower critics are split.

[@jasoncoker4031]

Can't wait for it to arrive!

[@theotakuprince8753]

this seems a bit dnd does it require a dm?

[@MaggotKing556]

No. No one is telling a story in this game

[@chriswinston1223]

These guys like everything. Wonder why?

[@RicoCordova]

@Man Vs Meeple It would be cool if you guys did a 5 minute monthly segment "games that sucked for us this month". No explanation needed. Just name the games you played this month (new or not) that you didn't enjoy. The two of you don't need to be in agreement on them. If one of you thought it sucked, mention it. There are WAY too many crap games these days and we need more people calling them out. (p.s. I agree Mysterium is crap, haven't played T.I.M.E. Stories yet)

[@garesonc9672]

Man Vs Meeple While I understand that may be your approach, it undermines credibility as "reviewers" if we only hear the positive. Maybe not use the word "review"? It's your channel, which by the way I have enjoyed, but maybe you shouldn't make "reviews" but rather "highlight" games that you enjoy. I think while other reviewers of this game out there may highlight issues or possible drawbacks of the game...I really didn't get that from this 'review'. I heard one concern(dice combat) that you discarded as a non-issue. Again, you are entitled to your opinions...but if you're only 'reviewing' games that you like, and not even pointing out shortcomings in said games...I'm less likely to trust your future reviews. Since I heard that there's nothing wrong with this game I assume you'd give it a 10/10 if you ranked it numerically? If it's a 9/10' what's the -1 for? Those kind of comprehensive critiques establish credibility. I'm not saying you need a numerical scale, but more of a "pro-con" approach rather than "pro-pro" video would carry more merit. Like your videos a lot and this is offered as constructive criticism only.

[@garesonc9672]

I appreciate your response and honesty. If you feel a game has an imperfection that keeps it out of a 10/10(even if you don't want to use numbers) rating, it might be helpful if you share that in a review. That being said, yes I also like Rico's idea above.

[@Replect]

And the waiting game for my box immediately feels 100x worse! Thank you! ;-(

[@Replect]

Man Vs Meeple Seems like Tom from Dice Tower goes quite in the opposite direction and finds it boring, gear and luck dependent, not very special and interesting old mechanics and grindy. I'm with you guys here! Hope my actual own sessions will confirm that feeling...

[@thedicetower]

Tom may have no experience with Dark Souls, but perhaps a little with board games?

[@Replect]

Man Vs Meeple Agree! The board game will likely split the community just like the video games do and there probably is a good chance he wouldn't enjoy that either, but that is obviously guessing at that point. I'm mainly concerned how easy/quick people take opinions as fact these days which quickly have bad impact on reputation, especially if people were already on the fence and kind of made up their mind already. Well, I hope I will enjoy this for a long time, hopefully not being forced to have solo sessions only... I'm All-In on Kickstarter with all the megabosses...

[@Replect]

The Dice Tower Didn't mean to cause a mean discussion here and certainly not by MvM too! After all, even though I dont agree about most things said about what the game relies on mostly, everyone will have his opinion and should make up his opinion after having a game played themselves in best case... But that is the issue as said: People take others opinions as facts these days way to fast and don't give games a chance on the table after all. Same with movies and anything which is there for entertainment. Luckily there are 1.000 games out there and if someone wants more then a combat focused game, there are a lot of others out there. I like the focused on combat game, not every game has to have a story involved and what not. Enjoy!

[@RicoCordova]

@TheDiceTower While I appreciate the content you guys produce, I have to say that you guys have a general "group think" about the types of games you endorse (even for most of the extended cast). I find I have very little overlap in my preference for games as you guys. You may have more experience with board games than anyone in the world, but your general focus is so family-oriented and "friendly" that I simply can't relate.

[@kosterix123]

nice artwork

[@ShaughnessyMusic]

Hawkeye reviews

[@tonkdumbledonk]

This game is sooooooo boring. You just grind until you have good equipment (which generally takes around 5-6 runs depending on how many people you have) and once you have good equipment you literally steamroll everything. My friend and I would just stop bothering with the room because the enemies had such a low low low chance to even damage us, and we had a 100% chance to kill them in one shot on our turns. The bosses were slightly better, but the AI deck just doesnt work, and often the Boss will just turn away and wiff it's whole attack. Even if they did come to do damage to us we could heal it back up, or not bother since it was usually only 1 to 2 damage anyway because we were embered. Played Knight Herald BTW. Assassin is garbage so if you want a challenge I guess you can go with an Assassin and warrior or something. But the game is just mostly boring.

[@tonkdumbledonk]

I should clarify we were playing campaign mode.

[@Osborne4Life]

Tom Vasal panned the game. And unfortunately, his review will stand out more than MVM's simply because it's Tom Vasal and will effect the game's authenticity. It sucks. -_-

[@davidwaybright]

Differing opinions for sure. Jeremy and I both come to this game with a lot of appreciation for the source material. We also came to it with a fair amount of skepticism, but after playing it, we were pleased to see how they made the video game experience come to life on the table. I feel I can confidently say that if you like the video game series, and consider yourself a board gamer, then this game has a high chance of entertaining you. Certainly worth a look anyway.

[@DieNische]

StarryAqua His reviews have a high impact on the Future of a game. B-Sieged got ruined as well.

[@SteelWarriorON1]

1 dislike because you fail to mention the PC format of the video game at the beginning.... lol

[@SteelWarriorON1]

Haha :) In truth i hit the thumbs up all the same!

[@bobdole8830]

Boy I can't wait to see this lying under the christmas tree #optimism

[@bobdole8830]

also: those minis look really bent

[@MaxsonAtTheFort]

Bring in Darkeater​ Midir!!!!!!!!!

[@nathancurnutt8074]

What ungodly fight do you want?

[@BlueSapphyre]

I remember playing the Dark Souls video game and there being RNG involved. Oh wait... It's a pure skill game without any random elements. I cannot comprehend why dice are involved. It's the antithesis to the Dark Souls experience.

[@LoremasterRyan]

I thought the same thing until I played it. It represents great moments in the video game. I mean, the range of damage from a weapon is tiny. If you're rolling a blue die, its like 1-3 damage. So if you're rolling 2 dice, its 2-6. To me it represents those moments in the game where you think you're just close enough but the enemy pops their shield up in time, or you were just shy of a critical hit or whatever. The game doesn't rely on those dice, it relies on skill. The dice are there to add another layer of tactics as building your gear setup essentially builds your dice pool and allows you to tweak your damage the way you want.

[@Mobile-Game-Magic]

Very Good Friend;)

[@NixBuffaloBill]

The only good review ive heard about this game lol

[@BogartFace]

I passed on the KS and now I regret I did...Your reviews are so unhealthy for my wallet! :D

[@BogartFace]

Luckily, as far as I can tell, there were no KS exclusives, so I guess it's just the discount we missed. One question, though: How much replayability is in the base box? Is there enough content for the game not to feel repetitive too quick?

[@peanutbutterjellygamer6986]

Emanuele Lillo all the otter reviewers all say it has great replayability

[@ViZiOMusic]

Hm, excellent :)

[@Mad_Mithra]

Can you parry? :D

[@MrTimebomb12]

They've never played a Dark Souls game ever before, they probably watched like a 2min video before they started recording

[@LoremasterRyan]

lol no. These guys are huge Dark Souls fans.

[@nzieli6486]

And the pc.... just lost my sub

[@davidwaybright]

Ha! We know that it's also for the PC, but Dark Souls is just one of those games that we used our consoles to play. We're PC players too, but for other types of games.

[@nzieli6486]

Good!! Sub gained!! :)

[@davidwaybright]

Surely that worth at least you getting some of your friends to sub along with you. :)

[@nzieli6486]

David Waybright maybe man who knows :)