Hazbin Hotel Is Bad And That Makes Me Sad

[@darkvioletcloud]

EDIT: I swear if this becomes my most popular video then I'm going to throw myself into the nearest river. I'm way more passionate and happy with my Made in Abyss thematic analysis videos. ;w; Please go watch those if you want to see me gush about a show I love. If you complain about me using Made in Abyss or Devilman Crybaby as good examples, or complain about the Dragon Maid gifs, I'm deleting your comment --------- Oh yeah if anyone is wondering why I’m kinda late to the game on reviewing Hazbin, I’m the sole creator on this channel. I’m also still in college and have a part-time job, so most of my time is taken up with that. I had planned to get this out over spring break, but I had a really bad flare-up with my chronic pain that left me bedridden for weeks. This chronic pain usually just impacts standing and walking, but this time, I couldn’t sit up at all, and laying down was difficult. It was a mess and I was mostly just frustrated that I couldn’t do anything. It broke my flow with editing, because before the pain flare-up, I was on a roll! And then the Stardew Valley 1.6 update came out and all my free time was sucked up by that, once my pain let up and I could sit at my computer without issue. All in all, I’m glad I took my time with the video, because a major rework happened due to the pause. The first cut had a lot of issues and disorganized thoughts. I wouldn’t say this video is perfect, because I do think I could’ve expanded upon certain things, and there were better ways I could’ve said them, but hindsight is 20/20, and every video project gives me insight on how to make the next one better.

[@blackqweenmars]

I commend you for your work. Take as much time as you need. I’m also a small channel and I’m in school so I understand

[@staysafe_eatcake6587]

I have chronic migraines that make it really hard to function day to day. Seeing other people with chronic pain doing and creating amazing things makes me feel inspired to do things too ❤

[@kojoattah3987]

You did really good pookie bear I knew the show was a mess anyway but you put it so beautifully

[@MooMooMoons]

I thought u might enjoy hearing that I’m a made in abyss fan who found your channel through those videos but I appreciate this analysis because i truly don’t think this series is critiqued enough; people hate on it but there are fundamental issues with the story and it’s message so it is very refreshing to see those problems articulated. but yes your made in abyss videos are awesome!!

[@copieopie5335]

It’s PAINFUL how some strangers on the internet could rewrite this show so effortlessly into something good and the writers who had over 4 years couldn’t handle the challenge.

[@Milky_Yippee]

just like the strangers who rewrote WISH

[@copieopie5335]

@@Milky_Yippee no fr😭🤚 they do so good im convinced they made wish with AI

[@Milky_Yippee]

@@copieopie5335 me too bud

[@thecartoonwolf]

This is so true. There's a person on youtube called Lovesart23 who does her own special take on the entirety of the hazbin Hotel, like the sins and imps and all of the characters and decided to make her spin on the show but with a completely different redesign and character take due to copyright and trying not to get in trouble with vizzie

[@sarcophiliac]

I'm willing to bet vivzie has an iron grip on the writers and that's why it's so flawed and rigid.

[@avivastudios2311]

Ah yes, the finale where everyone is singing together made no sense. I get it, it's meant to be a found family story but at no point did they ever feel like a family.

[@Jdudec367]

I dunno...they felt like a good group of friends to me so...I dunno I would argue it made sense.

[@cashiermori]

@@Jdudec367 LOLL, you have to be some type of troll

[@Jdudec367]

@@cashiermori How am I a troll?

[@cashiermori]

@@Jdudec367 my brother in christ, you spent weeks on ends replying with roundabout, stammering, arguments in defense of a nothingburger series.

[@Jdudec367]

@@cashiermori Actually know what stammering means before you accuse my arguments of it. And weeks on end doing that? Nah I do other stuff too. I have brought up good defenses and continue to do that, and how is the series nothingburger? It's far from that and if anyhing is kinda crammed.

[@Tjnovakart]

Hazbin Hotel reminds me of that Tumblr post that's like "every time a new Star Wars movie or show is announced all the fans are like 'OMG Glup Shitto is back 😭😭😭.'" So many Hazbin characters are Glup Shittos- random characters with barely any plot relevance that only serve as easter eggs to hardcore fans. They want to show all of the character ideas at once, and it just leads to the cast feeling bloated.

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@Tjnovakart Yeah you nailed it. But at least with Glup Shitto, those characters are established in the novels, comics, etc. and have some form of establishment in the greater Star Wars universe. Whereas with Hazbin, these Glup Shittos have only ever existed in concept art and spitballing ideas.

[@Reptilia1987]

This but with freaking MIMZY. She was NOT needed for the damn show, and I reacted the same way Lucifer did when she was introduced, which was "....Who?"

[@AlyaAdrianna-nk2tx]

​@@Reptilia1987 I remember people on tiktok getting mad and calling others newgen for not knowing who she is and finding her annoying 😭

[@jorami4838]

Vox literally did nothing but bitch about Alaster. He could have EASILY been written out of the plot.

[@Cardinal_claw]

​@@jorami4838 Probably should have, along with. Many of the others all things considered. Too many main/central characters. Too much background info needed. Wayy too much focus put on certain goals without having any buildup to reach them. A could be huge antagonist defeated by one of the joke characters, right after fairly easily defeating the "im powerful cus everyone says so and is scared" characters. Powerups that do nothing. The storyline is like someone summarizing a 5 seasons 20 episodes each show instead of an actual story.

[@avivastudios2311]

The fact that the genocide isn't taken seriously is one of the biggest problems with the show and even the KZbinrs who dislike Hazbin Hotel have not made that point once. I'm so happy that someone finally did. Thank you.

[@Jdudec367]

It is taken pretty seriously since episode one by Charlier though/

[@avivastudios2311]

@@Jdudec367 Episode one? You mean the one where she dances through hell and sings a song and then pitches her idea to Adam with crayon drawings. Yeah, sooo serious.

[@Jdudec367]

@@avivastudios2311 It's called being optimistic and trying to present the plan in her own way, she was clearly upset when Adam told her that the next extermination is only in 6 months and at the start we literally see her reading a storybook to help her calm down while the genocide is going on in the background...of course it's taken seriously.

[@avivastudios2311]

@@Jdudec367 There's not enough focus on the suffering in hell. It's just "Whoop, better go pitch my idea to the angels cause I'm kinda bummed about this whole genocide thing." That's what it looks like to us, the audience. There had to be a bigger focus on the loss. Maybe have Angeldust or Husk lose a friend to the genocide so that we can talk about it more.

[@Jdudec367]

@@avivastudios2311 I disagree there is more then enough suffering reallly. I mean she had to pitch it soon at that point really. We saw the loss with the genocide though. I mean yeah that could have helped actually but still we saw it pretty clearly.

[@AZ-ty7ub]

You know what else gets me about Loser Baby? In the song Husk says it's fine by him that Angel is a drug addicted sex worker, then when they go to the bar a couple episodes later, Angel goes to drink and do drugs and Husk scowls at him and says he thought he was better than that. ????? What was the point of the song then??

[@darkvioletcloud]

Oh that's an EXCELLENT point!!!

[@artistanthony1007]

It had no point, nothing about the shows' universe makes sense and I came to accept as it is, dont think about it or you'll get more confused.

[@AZ-ty7ub]

@@artistanthony1007 It just bums me out that the standards so low that you have to literally not engage with the material in order to enjoy it :( this show had more potential than that.

[@Jdudec367]

Because Angel got himself into some real trouble there and was being reckless, that's different. The point of the song was them both being losers.

[@Jdudec367]

@@artistanthony1007 It had have a point actually, a lot of stuff in the show's universe makes sense. Nah think about it actually.

[@calamaria9221]

Remember when Mulan (1998) had musical numbers until they came across the destroyed village. Imagine if Episode 4 was handled the same way. Also imagine if Charlie talked to her dad about soul contracts to help Angel Dust (whether or not Lucifer can actually do something or just give Charlie information about soul contracts). You can even explain Charlie not doing anything to Val by writing her as realizing how bad Angel's situation really is and she doesn't want to make it worse (or provoke him enough that he orders Angel Dust to never go to the Hotel again).

[@mr.j3rs3y]

That was such a cool and dark moment in the movie. All the whimsy and fun banter brought to a screeching haunt upon the army’s witnessing of the decimated village. It’s such a good use of mood whiplash.

[@T_E_G]

​@@mr.j3rs3y True. And the fact that they basically showed the viewer that they weren't there to party and have fun like any normal cartoon, they showed us what war truly was. Dark, graphic, depressing, ect. Even for the characters themselves which was so good

[@rutyqutykandi1361]

I said the same thing, in that the episode might have been better without the music. If not then maybe more people would have criticized it more on release.

[@Jdudec367]

@@rutyqutykandi1361 Wouldn't it be the opposite when there were those that criticized the music itself?

[@sarcophiliac]

31:18 "If you cannot say no, its not consensual when you say yes." Beautifully said!

[@Dharpik]

Gold rule is to hear the clear "yes" or "no". Whatever is not them arent count

[@sarcophiliac]

@@Dharpik Egh case by case

[@Dragonmongamer]

Consent is the ability to say yes or no willingly and having no harm come your way.

[@L-W-ko1hn]

@@sarcophiliac what?? a no means no if somebody says yes for me its not concent

[@nebaidossarkans3306]

One thing that I don't understand about the show is, whyyyyy is it set in hell, when the sins they commited in life don't come up *once*? We don't know who these people were in life. We don't know what got them into hell. How can anyone be redeemed if no one knows what they did?

[@BrokenCornholio1537]

This show could've benefitted so much from just being able to breathe. The plot is going way too fast for the cast and setting to make any sense.

[@IDrankVinegar]

probably on some random 7 year old tumblr post that's barely canon anymore because of couse you gotta go after some massively underground post to understand the importance of the one background character that shows up for 0.2 seconds never to be seen again

[@L-W-ko1hn]

@@IDrankVinegar mimzy *cough** cough*

[@lauramaue]

I get the idea that "Loser Baby" was going for: Misery loves company, and when you're in an awful situation, you can find strength in connecting with others who've had similar experiences. But when Husk called Angel a "whiny bitch" in the song after Angel *just opened up to him about his abuse*, it really undercut the message. Add Husk's hypocritical judgement of Angel's drug use later on, and you have to wonder why Angel would confide in him about anything after that. Husk is allegedly supposed to be wise, but the way he handles things in the show is just thoughtless and tactless, and it's clear the writers didn't pay enough attention to him to keep that characterization consistent.

[@blackqweenmars]

I mean he’s an alcoholic living in hell so what do you expect?

[@GoofyMann69]

I agree. Without the context of the scene before the song, the song on it's own is okay but with the context we have; Such as Angel literally just telling Husk about his abuse, it doesn't work. With different context, like Angel DIDN'T just open up and Husk was just assuming based on Angels previous actions or the song being between Husk and another character. It would be fine

[@Loaf........t]

It could have been a great song... For season 2... It was tone deaf at the time

[@diromiz]

Husk is not supposed to come across as wise, he is a dumbass who sold his soul and he SAYS THAT HIMSELF he calls himself a loser as well because he is a dumbass and the show knows that

[@jadecoolness101]

The song would've worked much better if Angel hadn't just properly opened up, but was truly just surface level whining. Loser Baby definitely isn't the worst offender. No. That goes to Poison, which was animated by a R- f3tishist that VIV DEFENDED. You cannot argue that song is in ANY way respectable when that fr3ak was able to get his grubby hands on the animation, and when the creator defends R- f3tishes.

[@jorami4838]

The main audience for this show is edgy teenagers. I'm not surprised the fans don't see how tone-deaf and shallow everything in HH is.

[@Justanotheruselessaccount]

@@jorami4838 glad I'm not the only one who thought this

[@dollzo]

Nah I'm an edgy teenager and I don't even like this show. (I liked demonophobia btw)

[@ahhno4662]

i know a couple of people in its target audience who refuse to hear any criticism of it, and this is because they relate to it. Vivziepeop can get away with her poor writing because she is exactly the same as, and therefore relatable to, her audience. Edit: and by “exactly the same as her” i meant that they’re childish. The people I’m referring to are teenagers.

[@Youngmacho]

I’m an edgy teenager and I was SUPER disappointed. Like I was trying to like it but I just can’t, I rewatched it & that was worse. Never again, I prefer Helluva Boss.

[@Spinelsofficalwife]

As someone who’s been a edgy teenager this is just not it, I think it’s actually geared more toward pre-teens, I definitely would’ve been interested in that animation when I was younger and on the internet fucking up my brain cells when I wasn’t allowed to even have KZbin

[@alkaline8681]

The fact that this was supposed to be vivzzipop first show and helluva boss was supposed to be her second show. A lot of people criticized the pilot and helluva boss for its flaws. That fact that vivzzipop has not learned from the the criticisms and made the same mistakes with Hazbin hotel. That’s what’s so disappointing about the show.

[@Spookatz.]

I actually think that helluva boss is really good, hazbin hotel... not so much...

[@xFantasy_]

@@Spookatz.honestly I kind of agree, I prefer Helluva boss over Hazbin.

[@Jdudec367]

Nah Hazbin Hotel isn't as bad and both are good shows overall and she is improving really. It really isn't that disappointing though.

[@jorami4838]

@@Jdudec367 Nah, they are both mid and rely on swear words for comedy.

[@Jdudec367]

@@jorami4838 I disagree, they are flawed but above average and the comedy is not just swears, kinda funny when I hear people say that that they actually think that.

[@Moonbeanie]

Not just that, but whenever Angel Dust is clearly making Husk very uncomfortable and disgusted by his OWN sexual harassment, it is all okay??? Husk has literally told Angel Dust to fuck off and when ANGEL DUST faces this all (and way worse, sure) it is NOT okay? I don't know man, the double standards are crazy here.

[@olivermaclean5897]

it's because they're the good guy good people are allowed to sexually harass one another ( I say sarcastically)

[@Runana57]

​@@olivermaclean5897I agree.

[@jadecoolness101]

@@olivermaclean5897 Sir Pentious being dragged off to a s3x room against his will, presumably being R-ed. But it's played off as a funny joke in the scene.

[@DylanoRevs]

@@jadecoolness101 The worst part is that was the only joke that I ever laughed hard in the show

[@Kazbur-qp8xk]

I think it would have been cool if in the beginning charlie was the only one to sing, specifically about her dreams. And they could have it to where the other demons comment on it saying it's weird. Then they could build up the patrons of the hotel singing to show that they've started believing in charlie's dream

[@crunchybanana252]

I love the show, but I agree this would be cool. Might need to be a bit longer for this to work though

[@dollzo]

​@crunchybanana252 Viv might need to manage her time better

[@crunchybanana252]

@@dollzo no like the series would need to be longer

[@unripetheberrby6283]

Kinda like the pilot...

[@a.n.9800]

The opening montage in the first episode seems to imply that singing is a way to power up in this universe (saying Lilith “empowered hell with her voice/songs”), and honestly I always kinda liked that as an explanation since it meant there was an in-universe justification for the musical numbers. Sadly that wasn’t enough to make them good 😔

[@theresivy]

btw speaking of vaggie, her angel wings didnt do jack shit and instead she had to sacrifice one of charlies childhood friends/bodyguard dragons cus she was too fucking lazy to fly to lute herself

[@darkvioletcloud]

OH MY GOD YEAH and Vaggie getting her angel wings back out of nowhere was such an odd decision?? Why then? What caused her to get them back? Aren't angel weapons supposed to do lasting damage? My friends and I were laughing our asses off at how quickly that one dragon got killed. I don't even remember which one it was because they were such a non-presence in the show.

[@ixxpizzasternxxi]

​​@@darkvioletcloud If I remember correctly, her wings were ripped off by lute by hand and not with the weapon so maybe that's why she was able to get them back? tho vaggies backstory itsself is a massive plothole so idk

[@mythic-m7p]

@@ixxpizzasternxxi When did Lute's sword not count as an angelic weapon? Lute isn't stupid to just get a random sword and use it for exterminations.

[@Jdudec367]

She wasn't being lazy but like...the dragons would obviously be quicker tbf so I don't see the issue there really.

[@ixxpizzasternxxi]

@@mythic-m7p You can see her wings being ripped off by hand and not with the weapon. Lute used the weapon to stab vaggies eye, but not for her wings. I never said it doesn't count as an angelic weapon, you misunderstood

[@mythicalthings1796]

Honestly my biggest problem with Hazbin is how Viv used the pilot VAs to do all the leg work for merch, in jokes, keeping the show relevant while it was on basically complete dead silence... And then they all get the boot for a mostly all star cast. THAT pisses me off. "Yadda yadda it happens" but it didn't HAVE to. Michael even said it would take a single page of paperwork and a few hundred bucks. She could have kept em... but didn't. And the best "reason" I've seen was... "Well the others could already sing soooo" then let them suck at singing! That's how musical theatre does it! There's a bigger focus on singing IN CHARACTER not necessarily singing well! God. Everything about this show pisses me off.

[@darkvioletcloud]

It's so scummy that she tossed away all the pilot VAs. From what I've heard, they weren't even invited to the premiere of the show!

[@mythicalthings1796]

@@darkvioletcloud They weren't invited to the premier???? What in the actual hell????? Man everything surrounding this show is just insane. I'm so glad I realized it was gonna be the most low brow, uninteresting take on the subject matters it was tackling well in advance.

[@MillyKKitty]

​@@darkvioletcloud Y.I.K.E.S At least Alastor's original voice actor is still in Helluva Boss, but it does say a lot that they weren't even invited...

[@Riley-vy5qm]

​@@darkvioletcloudI can understand changing the VAs, but not inviting them to the premiere at least is cold...

[@Jdudec367]

Was it mostly a all star cast? The actors who played Charlie and Vaggie and Angelt etc aren't all star. I mean...it kinda did, with it being a musical it would clearly cost more to have multilple actors for a single character. It made sense for him to repalce them though. Why let them suck at singing? Seriously what musical theatre does that? I mean...they should be able to sing well. Everything? Including the actual visuals and animation and music?

[@Alluringspace]

I interpreted Husk calling Angel a loser for selling his soul, like "Wow you sold your soul? So did I, that was stupid and we're both losers as a result" but this makes so much sense!

[@artistanthony1007]

Difference is Angel is an icon in Pride and the city is like only a mile or so big & wide, it's hilariously small that people would spot him and give him attention, Husk doesn't have the same treatment and image so no, they are nothing alike.

[@202cardline]

The one line in the song where Angel talks and says “I’m a coke addict to cope with abuse” definitely indicated at least part of the context. But it’s a fast paced show, the brain stops functioning partway through. Mine did.

[@Dharpik]

Omg, literally. It probably what happened to me​@@202cardline

[@Justanotheruselessaccount]

My main problem with the show is that it thinks swearing in itself is a joke, and it thinks its "adult" by doing everything else adult swim has been doing with their crappy shows for years. The show seems to think being gay is a personality, and it in itself is a joke as well. "Did you know angel dust is gay? Look at how gay he is! Laugh now, please." It's also pointlessly sexual for no real reason. It's very clearly secretly for children because it knows putting raunch in it will be funny to 12 year olds. I do like the art style and concept, but it's just so wasted on trying to be "with the kids," at least in my opinion.

[@Ihazfunkitty]

Vivz said on twitter that she grew up on south park with kids swearing as a deflection and no its us who are the problem who think that having every fucking shitass crap line contain a swear isnt the funniest shit ever. Shes ignoring the fact that south park first aired in a whole different generation, a whole different environment when swearing wasnt common on tv, they pushed boundaries back then, not all the jokes were just the boys saying fuck, it was their reaction to the situation that was funny. Besides i havent watched modern south park in a while but i don’t remember them swearing as much and they definitely dont use it as a comedy crutch. I dont know how old vivz is, i know shes an adult but her humor and behavior on twitter highlights she hasnt matured beyond teenager, shes a very immature person.

[@L0c4l_Idi0t6]

​@@Ihazfunkitty If I recall, Viv is nearing her thirties or probably is in her early thirties. 😭

[@FayeLawnKrack3d]

​@Ihazfunkitty in fact, I've heard South Park did an episode that pointed out that the swearing punchlines are no longer funny when they become a very frequent punchline. Pretty much same goes for other punchlines, especially the "edgy" and "shocking" ones.

[@Neganerd]

​@@IhazfunkittyViv is 31...big ass woman acting like that 💀

[@mistyy_.watterfxll]

As a 10-12 yr old, this isn't even funny to me it's so cringe and immature... unnecessary s3x jokes and stuff and I don't swear as much as this show I only swear for reactions or if im in serious pain or extremely mad (only at school)

[@MillyKKitty]

Knowing that Poison was storyboarded by someone who actively draws shipping art of Valentino and Angel makes it even more clear it is intentionally or perhaps subconsciously made to be leered at. I gotta be clear I am not 100% sure if they were a storyboarder but they did have a part in animating a lot of it, not sure though.

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@MillyKKitty They’re on the credits for Episode 4 as well as Addict, so I think it’s safe to assume they worked on Poison specifically.

[@MillyKKitty]

@@darkvioletcloud The fact they worked on Addict aswell... Now it has an entirely different vibe to me. 👁️👄👁️ Horrified.

[@notshardain]

that person has said they did the storyboarding for Poison too.

[@maddeninghustle6919]

Must be nice living in a glass house.

[@exoticcats6119]

Thank you for bringing up the Sir Pentious “because I’m having sex with everybody” joke because I watched multiple reactors and NONE of them brought it up as an issue 😭

[@darkvioletcloud]

My two friends and I were all disgusted by that bit. Just cut it off with cheering or something! Don’t have him get dragged away screaming and pleading!

[@yalovoyhznepomny]

Because it's just forgetful shitty joke

[@haveagoodday7021]

Honestly it wouldn't be as much of a problem (though still very questionable) had they not want to take a huge stance on SA awareness and calling out abuse. Which don't get wrong, is a very noble and good cause, buttttt it kind of rings hollow when the writers still want to make a joke implying SA. It was so easy to just not have the joke or rewrite it, even if it's some stupid-ahh MCU kind of line when Sir Pentious goes "Ermmm that sounded better in my head! 🤓☝️" and that's the end of the scene. It'll keep the general idea of the joke, without it demolishing the integrity and message of your previous episode about how SA is horrible (which it very much is) But I guess your SA only gets taken seriously when you're Viv's golden child OC.

[@blackqweenmars]

I mean, I thought it was kind of funny though but again, why are they taking angel dust things so seriously seriously but put that in as a joke

[@T_E_G]

​@@haveagoodday7021 PREECH. They also did the same with Moxxie. Worse that he was sort of the punching bag character throughout the season.

[@NANA-su5ql]

I described this show as an OC showcase where you just get to see a bunch of viziepop characters with a sparknote of who they are. Viv just wants to show everyone at once so that people can make fanart and fanships. I also think a show about hell could easily bring in a huge diverse cast of demons from other countries. Like how lame is it that we just get furries when we could get all different theologies interpretations of demons. I also don't understand how almost everyone who's dead seems to be either American, British, or Australian (with the exception of Valentino).

[@Ditto_Montto]

This is exactly how I treat the show. Honestly, binge-watching it, I thought it was kinda boring for me in a way plotwise. But the characters are interesting, so I just rolled with it. I don't really care for the show itself much, despite how much I wanted to, it became just me looking for lore on characters. Frankly, same can be partially said about HB for me, except I'm actually a bit interested in what's gonna be next lol

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

Isn't he Spanish?

[@Ditto_Montto]

@@MASTEROFEVIL I'm not really sure, but he is either Latino or Hispanic

[@Jdudec367]

It really isn't that though, it's rushed but we do get to know the characters and see some of them develop. No Viv did that because she wasn't sure if they would even get a second season or not, stop blindly assumping stuff, also she didn't really properly introduce everyone or even show all characters at once. I mean Nifty is Asian and possily Japanese really.

[@Sofia_Writes]

I'm more so bothered by the fact most of the characters died in the 40s-80s and no recent deaths happens or none of the characters contemplate the fact they're in hell and that it's real.

[@avivastudios2311]

44:24 Oh, yes. We don't even know why anyone is in hell!! I always thought that this show was going to consist of 50% backstory in order to explain who these people were in life. But they didn't do that. They didn't explain who anyone was. We don't know any of these people! I thought that Angel was a part of the Mafia but we didn't get to see that. Did Viv change her mind?

[@artistanthony1007]

Viv obviously changed that and didnt want to stick with Vaggie's original info on her being in human trafficking or what I think was that, her being an Angel that just lost an eye & Wings as she was left behind is not serious as being in human trafficking and we see how soft everything is especially in comparison to the Pilot, nothing about the show despite me not watching it makes me feel or think this is Adult and humans are vile, Pilot did better especially with Katie, Alastor and Angel saying things like "Dont get your Taco in a twist baby" and "Whatever pisses you off more" in Vaggie's response. I expected the show to go all out and be so mature, unhinged and hopeless that I'd feel like shxt like I did with those like Pilot Katie.

[@JorSweeds]

I’ll be fair with you, I’m scared regarding the backstory of a few characters especially the ones that lived far in the past. Depending on their situation, you’ll have to do some amount of research to present their situation properly. I feel like Viv changed Vaggie’s backstory because she realized how much work she’ll have to do to cause human trafficking in El. Salvador was (still is) a real issue, especially in the 80s when a CIVIL WAR was occurring. That and possible fan service. My personal take on Vaggie is that she was a child soldier who lost her parent during a shooting, forced to join the military to survive as an orphan but lost her eyes and died from blood loss.

[@blackqweenmars]

Fr like we don’t see any backstory or flashbacks or anything, and most of the characters are flat and static

[@blackqweenmars]

Only characters we know why they’re in hell is Charlie(she was born in hell), Vaggie(she had her eye cut out and was banished for refusing to kill a demon child during and exorcism), and Lucifer(he wanted his own domain and was the first demon).

[@avivastudios2311]

@@blackqweenmars The non-humans. And I thought this was going to be a show about sinners.

[@VEGA_173]

this shows version of hell is pretty stale, all the imaginative interpretations of hell throughout all of time and this shows hell is just GTA online with a red tint

[@midnightgamer-21]

And then people will come in like “BUT HURR DURR EACH LAYER HAS A DIFFERENT COLOUR” and we only SEE those layers in Helluva Boss, not Hazbin, making Hazbin Hotel just red central

[@konata4567]

@@midnightgamer-21 Even then, it doesn't make a difference still! The rings are just GTA with different skins overlayed.

[@midnightgamer-21]

@@konata4567 honestly I agree

[@nyeh7205]

This single comment blows out those hour long videos and essay length posts on why they hate hazbin hotel. This comment is more accurate and genuine than a lot of the criticisms I've seen, minus the boatloads of genuine critiques. I'm just tired of bad actors. The show has issues and is outright bad at times, move on and stop making a war out of a playground squabble

[@VEGA_173]

@@nyeh7205 wtf is bro yapping about💀💀💀

[@glwgameplayer1716]

The thing that feels the most like Fanfic to me is that everyone acts like we're supposed to know who everyone is already. In Fanfic you usually already have a cast of canon characters or an established world to draw on. If you're writing a Star Wars fanfic and drop a "Luke Skywalker" everyone and their mother is going to know exactly who that is, or at least who they're based on/named after (There's plenty of AU and Elseworld fanfic where a character named Luke Skywalker may be nothing like the Luke we know, but generally the point is to have the character at least start like their canon counterpart.) This generally leads to lots of fanfic where the characters get dropped in with a small or nonexistent introduction and assuming you're part of the fandom, you don't really need a bigger one. You know who this is, what they do, what they look like, and so on. There is barely an attempt to introduce anyone in Hazbin Hotel. These people act like they know each other, but we don't know them. Some named characters have like, single-digit lines on screen and aren't important but everyone acts like they are. We don't get any Alastor backstory until episode 5, and before then he's just Charlie's silly, scheming uncle/dad figure. In the Pilot there was this whole sequence painting him as The Radio Demon who slaughtered people for fun, everyone was anxious and scared of him including Charlie. In the show proper, while he's a charming character we also know jack shit about who he is and what he wants until the literal finale where he sings about his freedom. There are theories and theories about Husk being a war veteran, Nifty murdering her husband, Angel Dust being a mafioso, and I can't help but think that all of these are good ideas. But they're not in the show, they're not canon, at least not yet. This is like reading a fanfic and then scribbled in the notes at the end is some background stuff that they didn't include in the fic itself. Makes me wonder if they intentionally left blank spots in these characters to fill in later. Also, There are characters on the wiki who haven't even appeared in the show yet, but they were included in pre-release material or streams so they got slapped on the wiki anyway. Why is there a page on a character called Roo, who's only public appearance is a beta design from a stream 5 years ago? Which, again. Feels to me like a fanfic writer playing their hand too early and gushing about a part they can't wait to get to.

[@montserratmarroquin400]

THE WIKI THING IS SO TRUE, I got a short saying "Do you know who this is character is and what the purpose is" and like??? NO I DON’T THEY’RE NOT IN THE SHOW Same with Angel dust’s sister, I only learned about her because somebody drew her

[@L-W-ko1hn]

thats what i feel mostly with angel dust people claim hes in the mafia like its cannon or that alastor hes a serial killer and a hunter mistok him for a deer and killed him ITS NOT IN THE SHOW

[@CharcoalMarsh]

I think the reason why is bc the show’s target audience isn’t people who have never heard of the show it’s people who already have a general idea of what the show is since the pilot has been out for FOUR YEARS

[@Bingus933]

Ironically MLP (G4) did a better job addressing slavery imprisonment and war seriously than this show made for adults. The dark music in the movie when Twilight was imprisoned by Tempest is super good at setting the depressing and hopeless tone, the songs for the villains are also AMAZING! Some villain songs are "This Day In Aria" and "Open Up Your Eyes". Can you tell I really love this show? Btw the slavery is in the episode Crystal Empire part one or two (I think its one) and it shows how the Crystal ponies were in chains at the hands of king Sombera and the MLP has the movie imprisonment and war if your curious.

[@darkvioletcloud]

YES yes yes I totally agree! This Day Aria absolutely slaps. It's gotta be one of my favorite songs in MLP.

[@Dharpik]

MLP is strenght Hazbin is grave

[@RDrawzDragonz]

what the fuck happened in mlp i watched it when i was 5 or smthing why does this sound so serious 😭😭😭 should i rewatch it??? like wtf it sounds genuinely good for all ages-

[@_kaleido]

@@RDrawzDragonz there’s a reason the show got such a giant fanbase of full-grown adults back in its heyday. Watch it

[@cxiuart]

@@RDrawzDragonz YES LMAO the show is peak!

[@TheApoke]

I really wish they cut mimzy out of the show completely. All she did was interrupt the dad's song, give exposition about alastor, bring some guys for alastor to fight, then she leaves. It really feels like they created the characters first and then wrote the story around the characters, and not the other way around

[@Yellowguy0619]

Keep Mimzy, Lucifer's song was poorly executed and out of place

[@dontneedyourlove]

that's because she was. Mimzy was a character that Viv made even before the show started, Viv just put Mimzy in there for people who have been following her for a long time. Mimzy was also supposed to be a main character but got replaced with Nifty

[@blackqweenmars]

Why did they even put Mimzy into the episode in the first place instead of maybe diving more into the rivalry between Alastor and Lucifer?

[@th7298]

​@@blackqweenmars He was trolling appearently, according to viViepop

[@dollzo]

I was confused about who you were talking about for sec cuz she's so nothing

[@elderlybrunch4169]

22:03 "I thought that no one else could relate" right. Because gambling away your fortune on purpose is in ANY WAY relatable to being r*ped and abused over and over and over every single day. I hated this song from the very beginning, and I didn't even make the connection to Husk blaming Angel Dust. I pictured this song as a really fucking insincere bandaid to suddenly make Angel's situation all better so that the episode could wrap up cleanly in a half hour. It seemed very Bullet Point-y which yeah, this show really is just marking off its bullet points... like, "we can't focus on Angel's abuse in the next episode so we have to make it all better by the end of THIS one" and that's the only significance to which I hold Loser Baby. And yes. I get the very basic point. "We're both losers because we both sold our soul." Except there is no way Husk, a bartender, could EVER relate to Angel Dust, A RAPE VICTIM! The WORST part about Poison is that I LOVED the music video and still do as long as I look at it as its own entity. I watched it by itself without having seen the rest of the episode and that made me watch the entire show because I enjoyed it so much... then I realized they SEVERELY mishandled Angel's abuse. I have other issues with the show but this is the one that gets to me the most.

[@darkvioletcloud]

Something I forgot to bring up is that Angel Dust just did a line of some drug right before Husk dragged him out of the bar. The dude should be starting to feel the effects of the drugs by the time Husk calls him a loser for being a rape and abuse victim. What a trip. I'm not sure the writers know what it's like to be on drugs. Especially not the vague white powder that Angel snorted, which I can only assume is PCP because that's what Angel is named after. Yeah, people build up a tolerance to certain drugs, but if Angel has a high tolerance, then he should also have serious withdrawal effects.

[@elderlybrunch4169]

@darkvioletcloud (dark joke incoming) the plot twist is that Loser Baby is a PCP-induced hallucination and Angel has no idea that Husk never sang to him because he should NOT HAVE SANG THAT SONG AND DOWNPLAYED HIS TRAUMA IN THE FIRST PLACE!

[@Reptilia1987]

THANK YOU!! I had heard this song with context, and I thought that I was the only one that had this problem!!!

[@justanothermonster6442]

But Husk also gets abused by Alastor. Not sexually, of course, but physically and emotionally. So far we haven't seen the full extent of it as much as we've seen Angel Dust's, but it's still there, so it's not like there is zero ground for Husk to relate to Angel.

[@redpanda6497]

I would be ok with it if there were more scenes where Husk is abused by Alastor, but I feel like the show doesn't let it happen because he's a fan favorite. It seems like he's left alone to do whatever he wants freely except when Alastor needs something.

[@clover2698]

I just feel like this show and Helluva Boss kinda fetishize gay men and romanticizing guy on guy r*pe/assaults. And you don't really see the same treatment to lesbians and female characters. In general people seem to be more generous to guy on guy violence in media.

[@T_E_G]

There's actually some saucy merch of Charlie and Vaggie, but I'm guessing they don't want to be lumped with the people that sexualize lesbians because "sexualizing lesbians is bad" which, it definitely is. (Same with guys, not defending either, like pls stop the fetishes and sexualization) But that's just my guess. It's still obvious that they (Viv) favour their male ships/leads over everyone else.

[@RominaIsJesus]

Amen to that! I'm going insane about how many fandoms do this or accept it and the hellverse really is big on this

[@Dharpik]

Fr. It especially clearly seen in the yaoi or whatever it pronouses. Just almost every first work has it. The fanfictions from the same hole. I just dont get it

[@digestiveissue7710]

Absolutely agree with this. How come people never bring this up?

[@maximillian1109]

Yeah... The openly gay as well as more feminine men in both shows are super kinky and seems to "enjoy" being treated like shit to the point it's their entire identity. I'm talking about Solas (is that the owl prince's name?) and Angel, btw.

[@Wolf_Blob]

Fact: The pilot script was wrote by Viz's FRIEND. The story of the pilot wasn't even hers. And there were ACTUAL professional writers who wanted to help Viz in the show, but she decided to not work with them because her ideas shouldn't be changed. So yeah, the show could have been much better if Viz tried to pick up a pen in the first place.

[@Jdudec367]

Not true Ken didn't do it all alone. It was mostly hers actually. When did that happen? She did pick up a pen though.

[@Blargadlaif]

​@@Jdudec367 It was Ken and Dave.

[@Jdudec367]

@@Blargadlaif No it was Viv too.

[@Blargadlaif]

​@Jdudec367 Read Ken's logs. She admitted she wasn't good at writing and took lots of Ken's ideas (including Sir Pent's hat from Ken's character the Fool.) I've spoken to Ken and they said Viv didn't really write any of it. She obviously had ideas in mind for her characters but Ken and Dave were the heart and soul of the pilot.

[@Jdudec367]

@@Blargadlaif Did that already. She said that but a lot of her stuff has been well written really (eh no that wasn't confirmed that could just be a coincidence really.) What I've seen shows otherwise, Ken came up with ideas but not all of it. I disagree Viv herself clearly played a big role too.

[@lincolny2220]

The fact Avatar the Last Airbender, a show marketed for children, is leagues more mature and intelligent than Hazbin Hotel, especially when it comes to topics such as war, politics, trauma, and redemption...

[@RDrawzDragonz]

tbh atla does redemption a kabillion times better than hazbin hotel and thats supposed to be hazbins main theme... i love atla so much its so good.

[@yoggothemadgod6196]

That's because Vivziepop herself is a morally deranged idiot

[@neviemrobitsgooglom5142]

Loser baby feels like if one were to vent to their grandpa about being bullied and the grandpa replies with "well I get harrassed by my neighbour so you don't have it so bad", but all the neighbour does is have 2 dogs that bark when they see a squirrel or something.

[@rocket6108]

Vivziepop tends to conflate critizism with hate, so she tends to suround herself with yes-men

[@wolfrosefrost5475]

On the topic of the rewrite, Alastor, Husk and Niffty could be introduced to the hotel during season two. Alastor and Husk being hinted at being hunted at during a season 1, having Husk as an Overlord who has gone missing and having Alastair’s broadcast take over the normal channels for periods of time, emphasizing his return.

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@wolfrosefrost5475 That would’ve been so cool!! But the fans would riot if Red Onceler wasn’t in the first season.

[@wolfrosefrost5475]

If one wanted him to make an appearance in season one, he could make an appearance later in the season, taking advantage of Angeldust’s position to eliminate Valentino as an Overlord. In season 2 he could play a bit of an antagonistic roll, spending more screen time around the other Overlords while using Husk and Niffty to spy on the hotel when he isn’t there. He would be supporting the hotel for his own amusement, but by the end of the season his support of the hotel would be more genuine, leading to him playing more of a supporting role in a potential 3rd season focused on heaven and the angels where he would spend more time around the hotel.

[@raiubat]

One of my issues with hazbin is also like- why didnt they include anyone who went to hell for an unreasonable reason? Like there are SO many "thou shall not"'s in the story but instead of having someone being sent to hell for having sex before marriage or smth, our cast consists of Psycho housecleaner Basically a steampunk war criminal An army man who probably has his fair share of kills A mafioso And a serial killer cannibal I wish it was more like the good place in the sense that heaven is unreasonable with who's allowed in so we have a reason to root for our main cast other than “b-but their life in hell is so bad 🥺” as if that wasnt the point of hell. Or fuck it, have people who did what they needed to do for good reason, like someone murdering their abuser. Like- alot of our cast took people's lives when they didnt need to, what reason other than "feel good fluff" do we have to want them to be redeemed. Edit: AHH I shouldve watched further since u make this point too, but yeah I agree :D they should explain the concept of sin MUCH more

[@darkvioletcloud]

I don't know who the army man is and I did not know Sir Pentious was a war criminal. I can only assume Husk was in the army. I would've loved to see a character mad that they're in Hell for unfair reasons! Heck, the show being chock full of LGBT+ characters could've discussed how some people (unfairly and grossly) say that gay and trans people are sinful! Could've had a character who was murdered for their sexuality and they don't know why they're in Hell. They were a decent person for their whole life! They were the victim of a crime! Have Charlie challenge the idea of sin and what sins are redeemable. The fact that she doesn't want to contest Valentino because "it's so mean" implies that she may think he's forgivable?? Or that she shouldn't stoop to his level? Wouldn't self-defense be justifiable? I dunno! The whole concept of redemption seems like it was added in the last minute.

[@raiubat]

@@darkvioletcloud i thibk my comment got deleted or didnt send but yeah, husk was in the army! (Good job conveying that in the show Viv……..) and I was kinda exaggerating sir pentious since im not actually sure what he did but based on his weapons and stuff, i figured it was along those lines. Viv also didnt wanna go with the "gays go to hell" thing which i kinda get but isnt heaven supposed to be unreasonable? Lute even calls charlie and vaggies relationship vile and blasphemous. As far as im concerned, with all the hurt/dead people and broken families due to said deaths caused by the sinner’s actions, i have to reason to root for them in an "oh these r the good guys" way yk? (Also this may be nitpicky but they act as if now that theyve defeated the angels, they can get more guests for the hotel buttt…. If there's no threat of death then what reason do they have to want to be redeem yk? Bc like- hell is pretty much your average dangerous American hood/ghetto.)

[@TOMNICE]

Actually, that would have made the show way worse. I actually wanna see a villain getting redeemed instead of "they were actually a misunderstood innocent victim!!!!" It is so boring.

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@TOMNICE I didn’t say every character had to be like that. I said it’d be interesting to explore what actions are redeemable and what actions are considered unforgivable. How sin is ultimately a matter of perspective. We can have a character who is unfairly in Hell because they thought they were righteous, another who’s in Hell because they were considered sinful in their time but modern sensibilities see them as average, and yet another who’s a scumbag through and through, all of whom can be forgiven. What I want is variety and actual exploration into the moral conflicts that the pilot implied would’ve been explored, not for everyone to be a misunderstood victim.

[@raiubat]

@@TOMNICE they dont have to be completely innocent, they can be a victim of circumstance. Like I said, someone who killed for a good reason like killing their abuser and getting sent down to hell. Really question the morals of heaven and all that stuff. We rly dont have any reason to hate heaven other than "grr theyre killing sinners!!" Oh you mean the sinners that were killing each other? Bc mind you, prior to the heaven vs hotel war, carmilla was selling angelic weapons to other demons. It doesnt help that the show barely focuses on the redemption of the hotel's patrons either. The little sweet "calm before the storm" gathering with all of the main cast in ep 8 before they fought heaven was so unearned too

[@VampSans]

As someone who was a survivor of abuse, it’s taking years for me to cope with and grow from my situation especially since it started out when I was very young; so I thought I was disgusting and a horrible person for ever going through it. When I watched “Poison” and “Loser Baby” it reminded me exactly of how revolting I felt as a person once again and how my situation wasn’t being taken seriously by anyone in both my actual life and in media. It just felt uncomfortable to me, like I and other victims were a silly joke..

[@SevenReads007]

THIS! This is exactly how I felt when watching the show. I couldn’t finish it because I saw myself in Angel Dust, but instead of seeing him healing his situation was turned into a silly mlp style joke. Even watching some of these clips made me feel a little panicked.

[@JorguinTorpedo-ff5vk]

@@VampSans Praise be Silent Hill and Black Phone, Abuse is something only truly explored in horror media🗣️

[@KrayKrayKrill]

13:22. I hate when this happened. It is frustrating to THINK about. Why is a main character, a character we are supposed to love and care about, literally raped as a joke!!! A FLOOK!!! AND WHY ARE WE TREATING RAPE LIKE A JOKE!!!!!! 😦

[@voca-voca9469]

because this is hell, it is not out of context

[@KrayKrayKrill]

@@voca-voca9469 eh, i mean yeah it is hell but its treated (well AND GOOD) 2 episodes ago.

[@canarymothly]

@@voca-voca9469it’s still not okay to downplay rape 🧏🤫

[@damainortiz]

I love Pentious so he doesn’t deserve that. Even if it was for a joke it’s still pretty tasteless.

[@KrayKrayKrill]

@@damainortiz yeah :( he kinda just WALKS IT OFF too.. like dude at least write him to have HUMAN EMOTIONS!!!

[@Birdyboys]

I appreciate you calling out Angel dust’s trauma for what it is: exploitative fetish material. There’s a lot of evidence implying that Viv knew exactly what she was doing when handling Angel Dust’s abuse but you’re one of the first KZbinrs who just says it outright instead of tap dancing around it.

[@darkvioletcloud]

I wanted to pull out the archives of the storyboard artist’s Red Smoke comic and Viv’s tweets endorsing it and various other fetish stuff, but my goal with this video was critiquing Hazbin as an isolated narrative experience, not calling out the creators. I didn’t know the behind-the-scenes stuff until I dug into it, though. I was able to peg it as fetish stuff right away when I watched the show. If someone have that fetish… idk man keep it safe n consensual, do roleplays in the bedroom, whatever, I won’t yuck someone’s yum unless it’s causing harm to others. Bad stuff can be simulated safely. But the fact that Viv said it’s supposed to be a serious story about abuse and the adult film industry is disgustingly dishonest. I’d rather read some gross pervy visual novel or fanfiction that’s up front about its intent, rather than this.

[@Birdyboys]

@@darkvioletcloudcompletely agree

[@ibraahimdureng7482]

Nah, I disagree. Could just be me but it didn't seem like that to me.

[@Jdudec367]

It really isn't exploitative fetish material. What evidence? This wasn't exploitative or fetishy at all. Because those claims really aren't true.

[@Jdudec367]

@@darkvioletcloud Viv didn't endorse fetish stuff though or saw this as fetish stuff. How is it dishonest? story boarders can keep their kinks seperate from a serious story. This is up front too, it's very upfront about how the story.

[@Birdyboys]

Coming back to this: I think the biggest problem with Loser Baby is that it’s a song about self control being lectured to a sex slave. This is a song you sing to a friend who loses his loved one and becomes an alcoholic. Someone who makes their life worse before making it better. A bojack horseman type. But Angel dust isn’t choosing to do these things for fun. He’s doing it to cope with being someone’s slave. It’s literally inescapable

[@rashan141]

Technically, though, it was still Angel Dust's fault. Sure, we know his soul being taken is kinda end-all be-all but he had to SIGN IT AWAY. Souls are given in Deals, we know this, the fact Angel Dust's signature is even on the contract means he purposefully did it for reasons we still don't know. Throughout the show, hell even _Alastor_ is a showing of it, Deals aren't something you can force. It's gotta be pro bono, both have to take a hand in it to fix it. Angel Dust clearly made a mistake but, just like Husk, HE sold his soul. It's not like Val had/has the power to take Souls. So far, NO ONE can just steal a Soul.

[@PoppilyPoppy]

⁠​⁠@@rashan141 It’s not his fault. He signed a contract, sure, but unless we get an actual copy it’s safe to assume that the contract was misleading and prettied up into something he was comfortable signing with the promise of being a star. The sex work industry irl is incredibly predatory and centered around grooming, lies, and abuse, hell’s would be no different.

[@rashan141]

@@PoppilyPoppy We don't know that, all we know is that Angel DID sign a contract. It didn't need for it to be my misleading because its his FREAKING SOUL. That's still all on Angel.

[@PoppilyPoppy]

@@rashan141 Selling your soul to be a famous porn star is not the same as knowing you’ll become a heavily abused sex slave. And let’s be real, there’s no way in hell Valentino would be honest about his abuse and most likely pushed the fame and luxury. However he did, Angel was clearly misled about what he was getting into.

[@Jdudec367]

I mean....he did agree to the contract even if it was misleading, the point is he isn't alone in dealing with a crappy life like that.

[@Sofia_Writes]

The pilot's tone for what it was was way better than the actual show tbh

[@moldycheese6635]

FR! The rundown vibe of the hotel, the hopelessness of Charlie’s first song, Alastor’s chaotic charm, and Vaggie and Angel Dust’s sibling dynamic… It’s all gone

[@ma_cherri]

​​@@moldycheese6635 Thanks for putting into words why i felt so disappointed by the series. It felt like it just wasnt the same show at all

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Fandom is INSANE. On tumblr I was arguing with someone who keeps saying look at the instegram posts (it was about HB especially about the nonsense of Stolas's character and how STUPID his childhood nonsense was) and she just keeps insulting me for saying outside context isn't context for a SHOW. I don't need to nor want to research to understand a show. If you need instegram posts and twitter shows to explain your own shows you FAILED.

[@darkvioletcloud]

Outside sources are good for further, nonessential worldbuilding. Each volume of the Made in Abyss manga has really neat worldbuilding tidbits, such as how the helmets work without electricity or the biology of the various creatures. They're not essential for understanding the story or themes. They're just neat ways to flesh out the world! They're supplementary. Something like how the Curse works is essential to the plot of the show, so that NEEDS to be in the main story. Supplementary info is what the HH/HB Instagram and Twitter posts should be about. They could be in-universe, too! Make an example of a Vox Tech product advertisement, maybe. Fun little tidbits of lore! It's neat to learn them, but a casual viewer won't be utterly lost or confused if they watched the show without seeing the little lore bits. Hiding the explanations about how sinners aren't being killed when Alastor eats them and they respawn or something NEEDS to be explained in the show, for example. I still don't know if that's the case or if it's just fan speculation that I stumbled across! It's absolutely not explained.

[@FayeLawnKrack3d]

I must admit that the Stolitz childhood really ruined HB for me. I don't know much about writing stories like this, but I just feel it would've hit harder if it was Stolas being a lonely guy looking for someone who actually cares about him genuinely and finding it for the first time.

[@MoronicPlague]

@@FayeLawnKrack3d Oh my god, imagine if they kept him as a villain? I would've definetly watched that over the current version!

[@96Kohaku]

Fully agree on your take of "if you can't tell the story in the studio given time frame, don't tell this story". It irks me immensely whenever people excuse Hazbin's awful pacing as "Vivzie wasn't given enough time to tell this story". As if it wasn't on the creator of the show to understand how much time they are given (which she would be informed of beforehand) and pace the story accordingly. Every writer is constantly faced with decisions on what should be included or excluded from their work, what is actually necessary to tell the story vs what is pointless and you just want to include because it's cool/fun, what information can be conveyed in more concise way, whether any characters can be merged into one for a more cohesive narrative, etc. It is fully on Vivzie that she did not take all this into account, and it shows her failings as a creator. It is not the studio's fault for not giving her more time - she knew she had 8 episodes and went ahead with cramming all of her ideas in anyway, because she is not a good writer, can't edit her own story, and constantly chases instant gratification in her storytelling.

[@declanmckenna6854]

There's also the fact that your number of episodes is agreeded (key word agreeded) upon before you start the first draft of your scripting (you have your outline before this point). Viv and her team knew exactly how many episodes and seasons she was initally greenlit for before they started production. From what I understand she was given, and agreed to, 2 8 episode seasons which is more than enough time to tell a story. Now if she originally was signed on for more episodes and the studio had to cut those down after production started that would be different, but nothing shows that happened.

[@dollzo]

​@@declanmckenna6854*agreed

[@prestonflinders9209]

If every flaw in the writing is attributed to Amazon then you ought to attribute every boon to them also.

[@MagmaSpacer]

@@declanmckenna6854Didn’t the lack of guarantee regarding seasons and the final episodes of Korra alter things with that story? A situation like this sounds familiar

[@herbarium3573]

Charlie is a princess of hell and a third powerful creature, it makes no sense that she doesn't try to do anything about Angel's contract at all. And if the contract is to powerful to her, why not ask Lucifer, the man of hell, to help?..

[@darkvioletcloud]

Because then that'd mean we can't have more episodes of Angel's abuse getting shown off as eye candy- I mean, actual totally serious conversations about male victims of abuse!! Totally not the writers' not-even-disguised fetish! Totally a real and serious portrayal of abuse!

[@moldycheese6635]

About Charlie in episode 4, I think it would’ve made more sense if Charlie was reluctant to apologize. Instead of apologizing a bunch and having cute sound effects, imagine if Angel and Charlie were sitting alone, and Charlie quietly said “Angel… I’m sorry.” I think it’d be a lot more impactful because it doesn’t mess with the tone as much and Charlie is shown to have trouble admitting her flaws. She denies her daddy issues, denies that the hotel might not be the best idea, and doesn’t understand those around her yet claims to know what’s best. Maybe seeing Angel I so much pain is what breaks her and makes her admit she’s wrong. Idk just an idea Edit: Spelling fix

[@magivenderstudios]

Yes that would work !! And write a fanfic about that !! ❤❤❤

[@nari.oh.356]

Alright, someone has to say it. Husk and Angel literally have nothing in common except for the fact that they are both losers which is basically them trauma bonding. (Would've like to see a mentee and mentor relationship but they kinda already flirted or whatever and they are an official future couple. But then again, Husk calls Angel 'kid' or "Good job kid" to be specific when he stood up against Valentino at the club like in a way a proud parental firgure would. Its kind of a odd dynamic. They should've gave more attention to the main couple of Charlie and Vaggie but they didn't because Viv clearly has a favorite pairing.) Also Husk calling Angel a 'whiny little bit*h in 'Loser Baby' is pretty tone deaf when obviously, yeah he's gonna complain about being sexually/physically abused. Also i wanna bring up the fact that Angel Dust never apologized for sexually assaulting Husk and when he threw a broken bottle at him when Husk rejected him. Just because your being abused and going through stuff does not mean you have to be toxic towards other people and harm them. Husk can feel bad of course but Angel going through stuff isn't an excuse to do that stuff. They should've had him him apologize to Husk and then talk more about Angels issues instead of singing 'Loser Baby'. Also Vaggie got on my last nerve when she made Husk go after Angel like thats such a poor execution and idea. And thats the best scene they could come up with. Also yeah, in smiling friends I believe the grandma was still kinda suspicious by the way she sucked that lollipop. Even Charlie was surprised and kinda weirded out. But maybe she did do something else when she was alive that sent her there.

[@danielmatson4209]

Viv said that HB was focusing on male leads and HH was supposed to focus on female leads, but HH just proves she can't make female characters at all.

[@cosmic_cookie5669]

​@@danielmatson4209yeah, they have a pre-established relationship but Charlie and Vaggie are kinda...nothing? Like, yes, they have a very codependent relationship and are openly girlfriends, but they don't really feel...romantic? I can't word it properly, but it's like, yeah, they flirt sometimes (like with Vaggie's wings) and get love songs (rather, 1 love song, because Vaggie's duet with Carmille felt very one-sided and purely about her deep devotion to Charlie than anything else). But it's like they unloaded all the sexual jokes and shite on Angel Dust and Husk...when Husk was clearly written to not be receptive of then? Why not have more flirty and romantic stuff with Vaggie and Charlie instead of overusing the "joke" of Angel harassing Husk? Idk, the main relationship just feels lackluster to me

[@mr.rathalos1155]

I feel like a better backstory for Vaggie could’ve been during a cleansing her wings were “clipped” and she wasn’t able to return to heaven with the rest of the angels so she had to wait in hell until the next cleansing and while in hell she began to overly indulge in the pleasures of hell and became a fallen, some real Emperor’s Children chaos space marine type shit

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@mr.rathalos1155 That’d be a more subtle and fun way to show the cruelty of the angel army! They promise Vaggie that they’ll come back for her but they never do, thinking she’s a weak link.

[@mr.rathalos1155]

@@darkvioletcloud exactly and since Adam is like the leader or general of the Angel army it would explain her distrust towards men (though I can’t remember if that’s like a big part of her character I might be mistaken I just remember seeing somewhere that she held distrust towards men lol)

[@mr.rathalos1155]

also completely unrelated but I feel like “Overlords” get there power in a very Warhammer 40K fashion by gaining a boon or power up from one of the main sins by doing something that caught that sins attention, like going on a huge anger fueled rampage would gain the eye of the Wrathful sin lord and they grant you a boon that makes it so that you’re more dangerous, of course this is just theories all of the overlords could very well be very successful hotdog salesman

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@mr.rathalos1155 …I don’t know anything about 40k other than Sanguinius is hot lmao The friend I mention in the video, the one who’s in love with Angel Dust, keeps trying to get me into 40k lore but it goes in one ear and out the other whenever he explains it to me. 😔 Also I feel embarrassed to say that I only recently realized Overlords have power because of the souls they have command over. The fact that only Alastor and Valentino are shown owning souls, while all the other prominent Overlords are business owners, made me think it’s optional for Overlords to own souls and that their whole shtick was the business stuff. Demon Vi could still be an Overlord! He gains souls by trading them for hot dogs.

[@mr.rathalos1155]

@@darkvioletcloud I am in love with 40K lol and I totally get how the 40K lore passes through the ears, before I really got into it I only really know about space marines and Orks lmao, Sanguinius is SUPER hot but just wait until you learn about Fulgrim (at least before he became a daemon) his entire legion of space marines (The Emperor’s Children) are a bunch of pretty boys I didn’t know that either again I was just thinking about in terms of 40K to rationalize it to myself but now that I read it again it actually sounds exactly like the chaos gods of 40K, Nurgle the plague god becomes stronger the more people are afflicted by his diseases and rot I would sell my soul for a hotdog 👀

[@KittyBGaming]

The fact that s$$ual ab$$e (censored for my sake) was flipped between serious and silly/joke, I couldn’t support vivzie. (Helluva boss has this issue too) I wish they didn’t flip flop. I wish they treated it right and seriously. On a lighter level, I wish there was more screen time to show things than tell it. Show don’t tell would do wonders. Don’t tell us that Angel changed or anyone changed, show it. Showing goes a long way in a story. 8 episodes was never reasonable

[@Jdudec367]

I mean they did show it with Angel, he would not have stood up to Val in Episode 6 like he did in say episode 1.

[@prestonflinders9209]

@@Jdudec367dude stop. Just stop. The show is bad with its theming especially with heavy/serious topics.

[@charfieldmoment]

feelin sorry that you have to put up with all the hazbin fans misinterpreting and assuming what you say in the video, some of these comments r yikes worthy

[@darkvioletcloud]

Honestly I'm more offended by that one guy saying that I didn't put any effort into the video. There are going to be people who willfully misinterpret my words, yeah, but c'mon, no effort? Not even a lil bit? I just slopped it out for content??

[@charfieldmoment]

@@darkvioletcloud right! if they think 1hr+ videos are able to be easily shlepted out carelessly by ONE person, then they probably think youtube commentaries in general are content farming slop troths. yknow, unless they cater to their opinions. it's only then that they can magically notice and appreciate all the hard work and back breaking effort that goes into constructing a video.

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@charfieldmomentback-breaking is almost literal in my case haha I had issues with my chronic back pain that actually sent me to the ER during the editing process of the video! It wasn’t while editing or anything, but it prevented me from sitting up. It certainly felt like my back was broken at times, but I’m good for now.

[@charfieldmoment]

@@darkvioletcloud oh mannn i felt that. chronic back pain gang

[@Jdudec367]

is disagreeing misinterpreting or what? I mean this person does the same thing with the show tbh.

[@rutyqutykandi1361]

I am super happy with your section on tone. I have seen many people defend Valentino's portrayal as "like real life" how abusers will appear un-threatening to others. The problem I have is that this behavior is never framed as from the perspective of another character, its framed from the perspective of the audience.

[@paradoxtatorstudios9681]

I also cannot with the last song of the show lol. it is a period of recovery for all the characters (especially alastor who was wounded from angelic steel, who knows how long that takes to heal because i doubt even overlords can just fix it with a snap of their fingers ) and the building of the hotel. and yet it is a montage done in.. what, 4 minutes? how long it did actually take? a week? a month? who knows because it does not give any indication of a time frame💀 also you are spot on with the show feeling like fanfiction. the style of it adheres all too well with the mindset of a fandom-obsessed teenager who loves making edgy ocs, and i would know because i am one and my friends are as well lmao

[@templebeast1324]

The only part of the final song I liked was the V's part. Even though the lyrics don't make sense.

[@Jdudec367]

It took time...maybe all night? Not too long with Lucifer's power. Nah it really doesn't feel fanfiction really. Nah not really it feels like a good original story tbh.

[@paradoxtatorstudios9681]

@@Jdudec367 I see you everywhere defending both shows. May you at least say more of _why_ instead of saying "nah not really" to everything? Because that's not a good defense, just your opinion. I'd like to hear actual reasons, if you'd like to elaborate.

[@Jdudec367]

@@paradoxtatorstudios9681 I don't even say "nah not really" to everything though like the first half of my comment. I mean...just saying something is something without proving it isn't a good argument either. I fail to see how this show feels like fanfiction either. Even going through parts of the video and the reasoning it doesn't make sense...how is Alastor being manipulative and acting like a dad to Charlie when he is also canonically ace somehow just Vivzie trying to "shut up any Charlie x Alastor shippers" that doesn't make any sense she wouldn't focus on that and obviously something like that would have never happened anyways for many reasons. Overall even the reasons I hear for it being "fanfiction" are bad and weak.

[@paradoxtatorstudios9681]

@@Jdudec367 That's fair. I will try to elaborate on my part, though I feel like you will disagree with me no matter what I say. The way I see it, it feels like fanfiction in the self-indulgent way it's written, and also has a lot of angst, typical of fanfiction.. though fanfiction isn't quite the right term for it, I must admit, but I used that because young people are often the ones writing fanfiction. And, to me, the show still the vibe of an passionate teenage writer throwing everything at the wall. Or a teenager eagerly dumping a ton of lore about their ocs on someone. Things just happen because the author wants it to, instead of making choices that benefit the story as a whole. It's all kinda done on a whim of "what if we do this, this will be cool" and wanting to get into the action as soon as possible. Characters are established but not cemented-- for example Carmila Carmine, who is given an emotional song after just having met her, which is not really effective. It wants to jump straight into the action without proper build up. I do not know if I worded this well enough but I hope you can get were I'm coming from, as a previous fanfiction writer myself. And fyi, calling something fanfiction doesn't automatically mean someone finds said thing bad.

[@angelmancrybaby]

I didn't expect Devilman Crybaby to appear in Hazbin Hotel review but I'm not disappointed other than that the criticism of this show is actually a great way to learn on Viv's mistakes so future indie creators can avoid them, I love to watch these kinds of reviews so I can improve my writing

[@Vanished584]

I think we all do.

[@WeebGuru6]

Ur correct hazbin & helluva are both fanfics that got lucky to be produced I could remove angel dust character & the stolitz plot line & that would improve both shows being better

[@donutcat5535]

I think Stolitz could work, if it was done better and didn’t take over the entire show

[@WeebGuru6]

@@donutcat5535 then don’t have it

[@dollzo]

​@@donutcat5535that's like saying stolitz could work if it wasn't stolitz. It's made on a shitty foundation

[@Haunted_Plush]

This video is better than sex

[@darkvioletcloud]

thank you garfield i will not turn your beer into a slushie i promise

[@yourpsychicfriendfredbear]

22:30 probably, but substances are just set dressing until the plot demands. Husk downs alcohol like it’s nothing and he never acts drunk or tipsy, no one comments on a smell or uncoordination. They’re there for the characters’ aesthetic, not something serious again until the plot demands.

[@Dharpik]

Fr. Drugs and alchogol do nothing. Just remembering how my dad axted when he drunk way less amount of alchogol then guys did in this club just reminds me of how actually all this shit is destructive

[@nebaidossarkans3306]

Remove husk's useless wings (he flies for like, three frames in the background during the climax), and he becomes a way better character design. Still a lanky silhouette, sadly.

[@janesdead6802]

He should have a beer gut or smthn, nake him a bigger dude. He could could be like a grumpy alcoholic gambler uncle who does secretly care a little bit but ultimately lets his habits define him. Adding other body types, especially other larger people whose sins are unrelated to their bodies could help prevent the correlation of fat with over-indulgence too

[@twoheadedmotherrr]

it also really annoys me how charlie never brings up what she saw happen in the studio -- she SAW angel being abused by val but the only thing she could address or apologize for after he came back to the hotel was ruining the set. why wouldn't she ask about the clear abuse she just saw happen to one of her close friends? they treat it as if she never saw it and that REALLY gets to me. I know they did that just to speed things along but it's another instance where the character's relationships with each other seem very shallow in comparison to how vivviene wants us to believe they are. It also says a lot about charlie that she can overlook something as serious as witnessing sexual abuse, and the way they paint her apology as this uwu i'm so sowwy angel uwu is so disgusting to me. i wish literally anyone else wrote this show

[@Spinelsofficalwife]

Something rubbed me the wrong way about her before even learning about the show itself, in my eyes it’s like she’s made to be seen as the good kindhearted one everyone adores but ignores stuff if it doesn’t benefit her internal plans, If she wasn’t a childlike little blonde girl she wouldn’t be given a pass I really believe.

[@twoheadedmotherrr]

@@Spinelsofficalwife yes!! another instance of "tell don't show" with hazbin hotel. we're TOLD charlie is supposed to be kindhearted and good intentioned, but are never actually properly shown that. they paint her to be a cinnamon roll type of character, and yes that can sometimes be tied into the character being a good person, but i don't think theres ever a time in this show where we're shown that charlie cares about the opinions of others and actually helping them with their personal issues. she has tunnel vision, and honestly i think she had to be that way, because if it wasn't for charlie telling you the exact plot of the show i would have no fucking idea what the show was abt from seeing the other characters and their sideplots

[@Spinelsofficalwife]

@@twoheadedmotherrr Literally and this is why shows need filer episodes too because I feel like we don’t get to see the characters just doing anything in the show

[@blackchickiedee7]

Not to mention Angel brushing it off like "eh, it's fine I was just beaten within an inch of my life it's no biggie" 🙆🏾‍♀️🙆🏾‍♀️ how are y'all friends again? And Charlie doesn't just disregard what happens to Angel, Husker is under a contract with Alastor and yet she doesn't step in to address that with him. Soooo you're running a hotel for redemption but it's okay for Alastor to hold Husker against his will? Make it make sense

[@cosmic_cookie5669]

Yes! And also, she apologizes for ruining the set? What about "Angel, I'm sorry I messed up and Valentino took it out on you"? Just a crumb of something that matters. If she's supposed to care about these people as friends, why would she be sorry about ruining the set? Seeing what her so-called friend goes through in there, and as the princess of HELL, she should want that place burned to the ground; not be sorry she messed it up a little. She gets mad at Val for like 3 seconds and then completely forgets about everything there. The show wants so hard for viewers to find Charlie as an uwu sweet girl, very kind, very nice uwu but she's just...incredibly selfish most times. Which would be fine for a princess character! If the show acknowledged it

[@EldritchBoiUwU]

It's super weird because despite being a survivor of horrific sexual abuse I really liked poison and thought that it was a genuinely good portrayal of tragedy and disassociation. I thought that the objectification was excusable because it's supposed to be "symbolic." But after this video? I can rethink things. The scene was too graphic, too flashy, and a lot of it was storyboarded by an artist who (despite never being a victim of rape) actively drew rape fetish art of Angel and Valentino while somehow making their relationship even more horrific than in canon.

[@theone-eyedwitch900]

I also really liked poison, but didn’t like loser baby. I stand by absolutely loving the entire studio scene (disagree about the tonal dissonance being a bad thing in this specific instance but agree overall because Charlie apologizing profusely while everything escalates rapidly over tonally dissonant music while angel is petrified, made it hit even harder for me. It somehow instilled even more fear than if the soundtrack was tonally consistent) but I don’t like everything after. The music video is like everything I wish I could impart onto people about what dissociation is like but loser baby felt like a character speedrun

[@adir6094]

They draw wHAT

[@AlexMourning5635]

I have a lot that I could discuss about Angeldust specifically. You put it perfectly at 29:37 when you said "What am I supposed to get out of this", the abuse he goes through just feels egregious and edgy without understanding the problem they're trying to tackle. Seeing Hazbin Hotel or Helluva Boss, I'm just reminded of the mistake Mattel made with the Earring Magic Ken Doll from 1992, taking from the gay scene without intending to, but on a much larger scale. TW: drug abuse and actual reality about pimping and prostitution This is my take, since I haven't actually heard anyone bring it up, but Angel's songs Poison, and especially Addict before the show's completion, implied that Val wasn't controlling him through a soul contract but through keeping him high. Angel smoking a cigarette with the telltale smoke we see associated by Val was a perfect setup for this. The pink smoke that forms heart shapes and "I'm addicted to you" imagery really felt like it was going down the road that Angel liked Val at some point (and maybe that's why he sold his soul or stays around pre-learning about the contract). But I haven't seen anything that confirms (or denies I guess) that Val's special smoke does anything but look cool and form heart shapes. The pink smoke swirling around Angel while he listens to the voicemails doesn't do anything to him, and it's clearly not influencing him since he isn't reacting to or being swayed by the discordant messages. I thought they would go down a route that Val had access to special magic that influences people in his power or physically keeps them coming back, but that hasn't actually happened. It just forms a chain when they're emphasizing the soul contract. Angel isn't affected by it in the show, and it doesn't get used on anyone else in the series. Getting hooked on something is a very heartbreaking reality for some people in prostitution, victims who don't choose that route are dulling what they're going through by being hooked on something by their pimp or stomaching through it by turning to dangerous coping mechanisms like alcohol or addictive drugs. That in itself is sometimes a gradual or slow decline, and sometimes pimps lead their victims on by making the victim believe they're in a loving relationship only for the victim to be pushed to do worse things to themselves. This just doesn't exist in HH and we're only shown "ooh, evil (but sometimes silly) villain who owns Angel and can make him do things" but nothing of the hows, whys, when, etc that should be included in to the why Val is so dangerous for Angel. Angel uses alcohol and drugs to cope, but he doesn't seem to be physically affected by them or high in the series. You could argue he's always high (despite being stated to be clean in the pilot and he relapses), but the fact the overtones of Angel somehow being addicted to Val is just stated in his songs but doesn't really exist is just... I keep saying it whenever I comment, but it's lazy. It's another rehashed storybeat we're just supposed to pick up on and fill in the gaps ourselves to be edgy about a dangerous and very real situation.

[@AlexMourning5635]

TW Over, but I have another paragraph in me. My biggest problem with Viv is she keeps proving she only can see surface level aesthetics, but can't understand the underlying reality of these situations. The late 90s to 2000's party scene and even older speakeasies are clearly an inspiration as a foundation, but she's just appropriating the visuals without the core understanding of how Jazz was built on the backs of marginalized people of color or how serious pimps are in real life. She sees a closed (marginalized) religious practice and adds it to her scary evil character (but invents other magic symbols and abilities for other characters), then when the choice gets backlash she just makes the character half of the marginalized race she's taking from while still misappropriating the source material. She makes a housemaid Japanese because her actress can speak the language, and makes her alive during Japanese Internment Camps. She makes her only Jewish character stick out like a sore thumb and gives her a hooked nose (I don't believe that she's based on a chicken, guys, look at Mimzy's earlier designs). She whitewashes St Peter and Adam. She adds bland storybeats about someone wanting to protect her daughters for character motivation, doesn't flesh out those daughters, but then has those daughters make weapons deals on her behalf. She incorporates pop culture mixes of Christianity, but gets fundamental things like "Jesus/God doesn't exist here" wrong by adding St effin Peter, or Lucifer being the snake, or the fruit of knowledge of good and evil being an apple of free will (how did they choose to eat it?), or Lilith being the lover to Lucifer and her only sin being refusing Adam's advances (she slept with the Archangel Samael, who is conflated with Satan in later mythos, and Satan IS NOT LUCIFER nor is he the snake!).

[@SvrakaMagpie]

Im sorry if someone has already said this, but I'm so annoyed by the angel designs too, barely any effort to make them look more disparate from the typical Hell designs... Like really? All of the fever dream, biblically accurate angel designs and all you came up with was an inverted Blitzo with wings? Laaaaame

[@clownrat5759]

Something I just realized around this time 32:37 regarding Charlie and Valentino. She’s a princess.. why can’t she just.. free angel?? 1:03:48 LMFAOOOOOO

[@darkvioletcloud]

I stood at the other side of my room and yelled that line because I thought it'd be funny ehehehe

[@clownrat5759]

@@darkvioletcloud it’s honestly hilarious that the exact thing I thought *was* voiced. Like, wow. How did Viv *not* think of this? Oh right, she probably did, just keeping Valentino around for the reasons you stated 😭

[@Jdudec367]

Val owns his soul, it isn't that simple.

[@clownrat5759]

@@Jdudec367 she is the princess of hell. Why *can’t* she free angel’s soul from a contract.

[@Jdudec367]

@@clownrat5759 Her being the princess doesn't mean it's easy to free someone's soul from a contract.

[@sinfulpuritan3430]

The thing is is that I can totally see Valentino being a very overreactive, but still SCARY villain. If they treated his overreactive and even erratic behavior as less of a silly thing, and instead as more of a frightening unpredictable aspect of him, it'd work better than what we have. Maybe not the best, but still better than what exists in the show. There's many people in real life who do act erratic, overreeactive, and can switch on a dime, and while that doesn't make them a bad person, meeting someone who is a horrible person that also happens to have extremely unstable is terrifying! From firsthand experience, you don't know what to say, do, or if you should even do anything to calm them down and just leave. If I had a chance to rewrite a bit of he show, I'd focus more on that, because a lot of the time in shows overrreactive characters are played for laughs when in reality a person like that can very well be a frightening one to meet. It can have a small scene implying the abuse towards Angel, however, in turn it can show how unstable Val is while even just talking to the other Vees and taking out some of the scenes where Val is very calm and composed in the face of anger, or have him look like he's barely holding back. Then, the audience can make an inference as towards how that behavior could tie in to other aspects of his treatment towards Angel and his workers.

[@zero603]

This show gave me another reason to hate it. Its using a war crime as a fetish (I don't care if its in hell or not, the writers shouldn't have put that in). Edit: Also, with Valentino, I wished they made him like how Paranoid DJ made him. An actual threat to Angle Dust and even to Vox. Edit: Val should've also been an abusive bf instead of a slave owner. He would abuse Angel, yes, but also the show could've made Val apologize in a form of manipulation. basically, the highs and lows as explained in the video. I dunno if it'll be good or not, I just thought up this premise while working.

[@krampus7520]

Thats one my irks with the show. Paranoid DJ's voice was interesting and unique, and gave contrast to the other characters, but canon show Valentino's voice is impossibly average-male voice with an american accent that sometimes slips into a semblence of a spanish one, as if they cant really decide to make him spanish or not and it makes me angry.

[@axesandrabbits7226]

Fr Eyes On Me had me in a chokehold, itd add so much depth to each character (Vox, Val, and Angel)

[@Decandyce]

(Oh boy, this got very long, so sorry for my ramblings) I feel episode four should have been about Charlie's awakening call over the real troubles sinners face, like most of what Charlie does are like very simple, basic exercises as her plan to rehabilitate, things that don't help much, the encounter between she and Valentino could have been a bit later in the season but we as the audience would know the deal he has with Angel, but there would be visible signs that Charlie could see, stuff like Angel being extra tired, coming to the hotel crying, him lashing out, being paranoid, etc, all after coming from his work, yet Charlie only tries to cheer him up instead of giving him space or tryng to talk to him, this because she, well, was raised as royalty and is sheltered wanting it or not, so she has no way of deducing something horrible is happening to Angel. This attitude and habit of her's could be the actual cause of why the hotel has no more than 2 patrons and it's said to not be working in episode 5, as the demons that come check it out realize how Charlie acts more like a babysitter and treats them like children, so they don't stay long. Then in this scenario one day Angel doesn't come back to the hotel, Charlie gets worried and goes to see him at work, she messes things up and while Val is (barely) civil to her (because come on she is the princess of hell) he then takes Angel to a private room an the whole scene where he is abusing Angel happens as normal, but here Charlie sees and hears what´s happening through a door gap. And so her rose colored view of the world shatters, she leaves mostly because she is in autopilot trying to process what she saw, until she gets back to the hotel and has a bit of a crisis, being now hyper vigilant on the other's actions as to not miss any signs of trouble again (maybe instead of poison there could be a song about Charlie's shattered world view), but from there she realizes her approach to rehabilitate sinners has to change for the good of her patrons, and the next episode could be about that while she also tries to handle her crisis at the same time. I think a change of the sort could have made her success feel more rewarding to the audience and would had developed Charlie (the protagonist i might add). But then again i'm not a writter so maybe i got it all wrong.

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@Decandyce This would’ve been GOLD. Legitimately this would’ve been worthy of being the best episode of the show.

[@Decandyce]

@@darkvioletcloud Thanks!

[@TheQipaoMistress]

I'd like this episode idea if it also focused on Angel's world view too. Because otherwise it's just a genderbent version of the story trope of when a woman is S@'d and/or murdered and that's instead of their own story being talked about or touched upon, it's used as the mc's inspiration

[@ohno7153]

still cant get over that st peter is a white guy with blue eyes and blonde hair lmao

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@ohno7153 And all the characters who are human but not explicitly white have gray skin. No melanin allowed or else you’re turned to ash. It’s why my guy as a demonic overlord has gray skin. No olive tones allowed! Though, his hair should’ve been straightened. There’s no textured hair outside of background characters. Charlie’s hair doesn’t even have that fun little wave from the pilot anymore.

[@ohno7153]

@@darkvioletcloudshow is honestly for white peoples/white queers, especially younger people with the show’s entire ‘safe edgy’ vibes. don’t even get me started on mimzy’s design 😭

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@ohno7153 The thing is, I’m also white! Just not the “right” type of white, I guess. It’s for white people with perfect porcelain skin and clean, straight hair, not me with my brown tan and icky curly hair. 😇😇😇 (I regularly get mistaken for Latino IRL lol) The show is also not for you if you’re fat or a trans man. The only fat character is annoying and her purpose was to mess things up before leaving. Viv has also said really unsavory things about trans men in the past and I haven’t seen anything to suggest she’s changed her tune. It’s really embarrassing how same-y the character designs are. Tall, thin, sharp features, straight hair, big eyes with fluffy eyelashes… It feels so unambitious, like the character designers are afraid to draw other body types. I had a character line-up of some of my OCs in my Monkey Wrench video and, while I try drawing diverse casts, I feel like I can push it further. People in real life come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes, and I want my cast to reflect that.

[@ohno7153]

@@darkvioletcloud viziepop has openly stated that she doesn’t like drawing muscular characters and it shows. she also has a pretty bad past in general (n*zi sausage party oc..) and good on you for ur ocs!! Honestly, anything better then the same slender/twink oc that wears a striped suit, bow tie and some other over-designed mess.

[@notshardain]

@@darkvioletcloud i can never forget the way viv has talked about her transmasc staff. Absolutely vile how she treats transmascs, and I haven't seen any proof she's changed OR apologies, either.

[@chickenelafsworld7105]

On the fanfic-ness of the writing, I’m not someone who sees fanfic as inherently worse, less valid, less artistic writing. It does, however, exist in a context. The reason professional writing can’t be written like fanfic isn’t because fanfic is low brow. It’s because fanfic assumes you already know the characters, so seeing them interact, seeing content that would be bloat in the main story, that’s the highlight. You don’t *need* to establish characters, relationships or worlds most of the time in fanfic. When you do, the other aspects tend to be there for you to fall back on. Emotional investment is assumed, so you don’t have to spend as much time on that. It can work incredibly, beautifully well if the fanfic author is good at it. Generally, fanfics that change more of these aspects (au fics, fics that add OCs, etc.) need to be structured more and more like traditional stories until they basically are original works. Eventually, some fics are basically origina, stories. If it’s fanfic of a classic piece of literature, you can even publish it as a retelling, because you changed enough that fanfic rules no longer apply. Hazbin is a fully published work, a standalone story, and it never moved to the methods of standalone published work. And it suffers for it. Well, that and generally poor writing even if it were a fanfic.

[@darkvioletcloud]

Yeah that was the point I was trying to make but I don’t think I conveyed it properly. Whoops. ;w;

[@j.jonahjoestar7924]

over 1 hour long hazbin roast videos are like twink characters to Vivziepop. Just cant get enough of em.

[@LittleCrustacean]

I did not know of Angel Dust's characterization and story until now and was not aware of how much I really relate to him. Seeing him unable to escape his abuser honestly has me very hurt and reminds me of things that could happen to me if I couldn't make it away from my own. The fact that this kind of mindset gets praised is rage-inducing even and I hope that the future holds more awareness to male abuse because how is that even comedic?

[@darkvioletcloud]

Charlie had every opportunity to break Angel out of his abuse, but didn't do so because it'd be "so mean" to use force when dealing with Valentino.

[@godzillaboy011]

​@@darkvioletcloud and that is why Charlie is an incompetent retard.

[@Jdudec367]

@@darkvioletcloud Again I am pretty sure it's because it's not that easy, Val legaly owns his soul...or what "laws" there is anyways.

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@Jdudec367 Not defining the rules of this vague soul contract is the root of the problem. Just have Vaggie ask Charlie why she can’t just ask her dad to intervene or something, and Charlie says “You can’t destroy a soul contract without destroying the soul it’s attached to!” I made this up on the fly. Establish some sort of lore that gives a reason beyond Charlie thinking it’s *mean* to intervene. As it stands now, she’s a horrible friend to Angel because she won’t be a little bit of a jerk in exchange for *freeing her friend from slavery.* There’s no implication that there’s anything else restricting Princess Charlotte Morningstar, Daughter of Lucifer, from either breaking the contract herself, buying out Angel, getting her dad to intervene, or straight up killing or imprisoning Valentino.

[@Jdudec367]

@@darkvioletcloud I mean there are some rules, the details just differ from contract to contract. Like with Angel it's mainly in the studio really but Val still owns his soul. I mean instead of telling they showed that it doesn't seem easy to break a contract like that, even IRL contracts can't be gotten rid of easily even if you physically rip it up. So I would say there is lore besides just what you propose of Charlie's supposed reasoning, I would say it genuinely is hard to get rid of, again ripping it apart wouldn't really make it invalid. I disagree, again it wouldn't be easy to just get rid of a signed and agreed to contract like that, she isn't a horrible friend for being literally unable to do something. I mean there is, again contracts like this wouldn't be easy to break even if they didn't kill the soul, like look at how signed contracts IRL work. Buying out Angel? I dunno if Valentino would do that with how valueable Angel is to him, he can be stupid at times but I doubt he would do that. Lucifer may not be able to help with that either. And I dunno if Charlie has mastered her powers yet or could kill Valentino...and I dunno if they even imprison people normally in Hell...I mean it's hell. Even then it would make the news and be big if the Princess of Hell killed one of the Vees and that may not be good either.

[@violetqueen8927]

Seeing the way Viv writes and paces her own show and story makes me realize that my writing and pacing isn't so bad. It's sad to see the way she rushes her show. When first watching the show I was so lost on how many days really passed during the show, then I was confused onto why the show was rushing into so many different plot lines and stories. With Angel and Alastor. They're backstories and current story is so interesting but the way its written and portrayed ruins the entire vibe of what Viv is trying to convey. Alastor is supposed to be a scary intimidating overlord that rose into power in only a few days but then is shown as a goofy laughable character, the same with Angel Dust. Viz needs to understand that her show is not as good as people make it out to be. She needs better writing, showcasing, tone of the situation, and pacing. It's frustrating to see her not take the advice and constructive criticism properly.

[@tylerdaniell2270]

Viv said Hazbin was meant to be a lot longer in the 1st season than just 8 episodes. But shows nowadays are practically forced to be fast-paced if they wanna tell their story, or even a bit of their story in case they get cancelled. Especially if its story orientated

[@Jdudec367]

I mean eh....the wriitng isn't that bad but yeah the pacing has issues. How is how their written and portrayed ruins the vibe of what she is trying to convey? I mean...he can be both goofy and scary look at The Joker for example, and no Angel isn't meant to be intimiating or scary and he works. I mean it is a good show and it isn't as bad as some people make it out to be either.

[@kriksi7775]

I HATE the idea of AngelHusk. Angel sexually harassed Husk and Husk literally called him loser, fucked up vine-kid cry baby basically, FOR BEING ABUSED by Valentino! They should NOT be a couple. Husk basically told Angel to suck it up, deal with it and accept it. NO ONE SHOULD ACCEPT BEING ABUSED. Bad idea to ship them. very bad. Gross. Angel never even apologized to Husk for the sexual assault. Every time we see Husk and Angel talk, Husk is clearly uncomfortable. Yet people ship these two?? But when Angel gets harassed by Valentino - IT IS NOT OKAY AND VAL IS BAAAD. Wow ...really? Why is Angel's actions towards Husk considerate OK but Val's with Angel - not? Double standarts.

[@pjdixon6199]

Just say you're homophobic and leave

[@MoronicPlague]

Val didn't just harass Angel, he also sexually assulted him, tortured him, and literally commited slavery. The worst Angel Dust did to Husk is sexual harassment (unwelcomed flirting isn't considered sexual assult), which while still is wrong (like seriously it should be called out, if Husk was a woman and Angel was a straight man then I don't think there would be as many people shipping them together), it should not be compared to what Valentino did, as if those two crimes are anywhere close.. Bonus! Husk did indeed call Angel that, yet um.. You missed the part when he said ", just like me". Husk isn't saying those things to Angel Dust just to insult him, but to give him non-artifitial hope- uh. They're both in a bad situation, so they both can relate to each other and like help each other or smth? I'll play the line: "But just maybe if we eat shit together, things will end up differently". :> Have good day plz! ^^

[@olivermaclean5897]

@@pjdixon6199 not supporting the ship does not make someone homophobic I'm gay but I don't support angelhusk

[@olivermaclean5897]

@@MoronicPlague it could be a situation where the abuse victim takes on aspects of the abuser it does frequently happens

[@krampus7520]

Cause Husk is coded as an old guy--old guys cant get sexually harassed, duh. /s

[@AlexMourning5635]

OMG SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THE ARTISTIC NARRATIVE OF ME!ME!ME! I love you now.

[@AlexMourning5635]

9:33 They just stole the "Mole's ambiguous backstory" from Disney's Atlantis. We don't even get enough depth to these characters to make it funny, their backstories are irrelevant!

[@theresivy]

1:03:18 THANK YOU, also if you ever delved into the fandom back in like 2019 or 2020, viv got mad cus the charlastor ship was getting more attention than she was on her own birthday (which vivzie’s crew chose the day to air the pilot on) so this whole father daughter dynamic happened lmfaoo

[@blackchickiedee7]

But Charlie is her self-insert, if anything she should have been happy but okay 😅 HH and everything involved with it is like a fever dream

[@krampus7520]

thats INSANE narcisism behavior

[@DragonGirl2000]

​@@krampus7520 For real, and it's very childish too.

[@DragonGirl2000]

If you don't mind me asking, did Vivziepop got mad about it during a birthday live stream or on Twitter?

[@theresivy]

40:51 not just that, but within 8 episodes they kept doing timeskips like WHAT,ARE. YOU DOING?!

[@5P_OFFICIAL]

Problem with hazbin hotel is that there's no *hazbin hotel* It's like hotel itself is just a decoration that doesn't does it's purpose which is supposed to do in pilot - redeem sinners Instead, all 8 episodes barely touched it and were focused on heaven's approval of redemption, more than on redemption itself, we even got fight for hotel before it started getting visits, why should you protect hotel if it is useless? Why didn't Viv make heaven more hidden, more unreachable, to keep that mystery that was in pilot

[@mystikimchi6016]

As a former prostitute and recovering drug addict, “poison” and “loser, baby” were such close songs to my heart; I felt understood, and worthy as a person even when I sold my body and (what felt like) my soul. However, I can understand where you’re coming from with those songs. Depending on perspective, it comes off as either well-done, or insensitive. It’s interesting to see different takes on those songs and that episode.

[@darkvioletcloud]

@@mystikimchi6016 I hope my criticisms of the show didn’t come across as insensitive. ;w; I don’t want to invalidate anyone’s personal experiences. There’s so many basic storytelling issues that the show has that ultimately failed to justify Poison and Loser Baby, in my opinion. I wish you all the best in your life. 💜 Though I’ve never dealt with either of those issues, someone close to me has dealt with drug addiction, and I saw how tough of a journey recovery could be.

[@mystikimchi6016]

@@darkvioletcloud oh no no you didn’t come off as insensitive at all!! Your take was very well done and just as valid. This whole review in general was done extremely well. And thank you so much!! I hope you’re doing well, as well

[@lordtachanka903]

All I gotta say about hazbin: Cons: safe edgy, full of self inserts, only exists for shilling bad music, repetitive plot AND subplot, “haha Christians bad and Satan good, our dads are all bad, get it, because we call God ‘the father’ WE’RE SO ORIGINAL”, tiktok comedy, tonal whiplash, Pros: I like the art style, the animation is fairly smooth for the most part, sometimes the background gags get a laugh, every 1 out of 1000 jokes occasionally lands, *rule34* PS: I hate vaggies name too Edit: wait I just realized all the non straight characters are in hell, and no one in hell uses any hate speech, what is Vivziepop trying to imply by making it that way?

[@Selfdestructingwii]

I mean I'm pretty sure nifty is straight. That's the only one I can think of.

[@CMitchell2849]

Building off what the article said after reading it, I went on a little deep dive. Vivzie seems to base the show more off of Jewish mythology compared to actually religion/Christianity. Lilith is not once mentioned in the book of Genisis, she’s a character in Jewish mythology that personifies the death of children and correct me if I’m wrong, but also STDs. Vivzie claims she was raised in the Presbyterian church, yet I would not assume that from watching HH? It’s clear she has some unsorted religious trauma, but how were you brought up Presbyterian and proceed to produce something based off JEWISH mythology, not religion, mythology. It’s clear she’s chosen Lilith as some sort of female empowerment character with her rejecting Adam because she wanted to be equals, ignoring the fact she’s a myth that represents the death of innocents. Lilith is referenced ONCE in the book of Isiah to refer to a demon or creature of darkness, not a person. Lilith is considered something of a synonym to monster, which is why it’s replaced with/ replaced with words similar to monster in other translations. Vivzie clearly wants to call out homophobic, conservative Christians, yet she can’t even properly display their religion, the same religion she says she used to question as a kid. This is only a VERY small problem of everything else that went on in HH, but I think a part of the reason why HH isn’t good is because Vivzie wants to write about her own religious trauma without keeping other people that are in similar situations in mind. How DID we get Saint Peter but not God, Jesus, or even the Virgin Mary? Vivzie can’t decide whether she wants this to be a biblical based story or biblical fanfiction.

[@rootfish2671]

I really wanted to like this show but I just couldn’t get into it. Vizzie needs a talented writer for her series very badly. My friend asked about it and I told him imagine a musical cartoon set in Hell and every song and character essentially says “We’re gay and we’re in Hell and we’re horrrrny! Also we love to cuss a lot!”

[@starr-pw6bh]

It's honestly SO disappointing to see people who argue with "Well it's just a show!" for these specific issues. Yes, it's fiction; yes, it's just an edgy cartoon with a bunch of tumblr sexyman wannabes, but why exactly does THAT type of show get to handle these issues, and then treat them as if they're just another layer of edginess? SA is one of the worst things a human being could ever be subjected to, and yet it's totally fine to consume works that either make fun of or completely butcher it.

[@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475]

I see this show has another Fifty Shades or Twilight moment. Someone just managed to get lucky with their bad story fanfiction and are now backed by actual studios to give it the illusion of depth. It's like any media piece that has an over-reliance on the visuals and "quirky characters" (getting really bloody tired of that these days) almost like key jangling to distract you from looking at the show objectively and not seeing it for the mess it actually is. Writing isn't a cakewalk, especially professional writing. Vizi should have just stayed being an artist cause the future isn't gonna look bright if she continues to present any of her shows like this.

[@Jdudec367]

I disagree, I mean I've seen quite a few takes explaining the character depth and it is there. I mean not all of the characters are "quirky" or well...Angel Dust (who clearly has depth especially as seen in episode 4), how is it key jangling? Objectively it's flawed but not bad. Nah so far it's a good season just rushed.

[@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475]

@@Jdudec367 You have to rely on others to explain what the characters are instead of the show doing that which is what it's supposed to do? The Key Jangling comes in the form of the musical numbers and pretty animation to distract you from any depth. People will gladly throw any critical thinking away if "Aw but look it has a musical number like when I used to watch Disney!" personal bias plays too much of a factor.

[@Jdudec367]

@@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475 Not really, you can infer what the characters are pretty easily tbh. How does it do that? It does give characters depths and many people including me have explained the character depth before. That's your assumption, and frankly it's pretty unfounded and unproven tbh, a lot of people who praise the show still know it has it's flaws but just because it does doesn't mean it's as bad as people like you think it is.

[@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475]

@jaydenc367 Mate, I get it. You're a fan of the show. I've seen you reply to nearly anyone who has issues of it.

[@errored415]

The writing deserves a spot in hell but I mean removing that / just not giving a fuck about it makes it actually enjoyable. It's one of the shows that really doesn't need you to be invested (you'll just end up confused)

[@katiaplantscientist]

That's another good point - if Charlie is the "Princess" of this place why does she act like a downtrodden nobody?

[@xx_.mikanowhere._xx2404]

Istg i wish charlie and lucifer were atleast intimidating to the sinners 💀

[@tylerlong5112]

The most tragic part for me is that the concept is so good and had so much potential. People who are dammed getting redemption and becoming better, I felt like the show needed a tone like Bojack where you can feel sympathy towards a character wail also showing that they dug their own grave. That’s what I wanted in the show have a backstory episode for each character and show that despite how much you feel bad for them show why they deserved their fate and how they can be saved. Also don’t make heaven out to be in wrong

[@Emiko-chan-is-here]

I will never forgive Hazbin for the way they treated Angel's abuse. The worse is that episode 4 was storyboarded by someone who activly gets off on ABUSE and isnt a victim of trauma or anything, (they said so themself btw)

[@Void_Daddy]

Wrong. The animator didn't animate those scenes, and yes, they ARE a victim of abuse. They initially denied being a victim because they didn't want to have to justify their victimhood. People were harassing them a ton for being someone that has a kink / fetish (no they aren't the same thing) by drawing art of a toxic ship, to deal with their trauma. They were drawing fictional characters on an openly labelled 18+ account and people were so upset by it they were harassed off Twitter.

[@choofcx]

@@Void_DaddyI mean they also threatened to send nudes to a minor too and no amount of trauma can justify that

[@caitlingoins2103]

28:21 the problem is that her fan base is 80% children. There's children fetishizing Val and Angel Dust then you have Viv saying it's okay for people to like Vals character and to ship him and make fan fic because he's not real. Kids should not be watching the show they do not understand the heavy topics being shown. Kids should not be saying they want a relationship like Val and Angel Dust. It proves had badly and unserious the topic is written

[@JitterJatter]

I weird part for me was when Angel stood up to Val. I really did not like that personally. I feel those who are abused should not need to face or “stand up” to their abusers. Although I am not being held against my will in a magical hell contract, I do remember being in relationships where I really did not want to see the other person. I felt more comfortable ghosting them than standing up to them. I know Angel stands up to Val because he is defending Nifty but I still feel he should not have to face his abuser unless he wants to. Just my thoughts tho. I really like this video.

[@blackqweenmars]

It’s best to stand up to people instead of run away. I don’t know if it’s just me but I don’t like unfinished business and the person might come back to finish it which wouldn’t be good.

[@JitterJatter]

@@blackqweenmars I agree. I think standing up is a good thing and I like how he stood up for Nifty. I just feel it is not always necessary to have a victim/survivor confront an abuser. I also just did not like how comedic the scene played out and how…cliche it was. Abuse is not a thing to slap onto your tumblr oc. It’s real and it’s painful.

[@blackqweenmars]

@@JitterJatter I mean abuse is one of the most popular forms of trauma to put on your OC and it can be done right but when you’re a teenage girl who still thinks that abuse is something aesthetic and attractive that you’re probably not going to make an accurate depiction of it

[@JitterJatter]

@@blackqweenmars completely agree

[@artistanthony1007]

It's also a stupid decision because Val's an overlord and that will have consequences or should have but Viv's writing doesn't work for that level of seriousness and commitment.

[@artmoonsilva]

I feel like the biggest issue with "Mascarade" and Angel's storyarc is that it's not actually an arc. The episode really just serves as a "look how shitty his situation is", but does not do anything about it. It would have been so much better if Angel came into the hotel because he didn't have a place to stay because only models/stars could live in Valentino's mansion. Then show AD's relationship with Valentino (and actually make them a relationship, not a owner/slave dynamic) and have Angel have to decide if he wants to stay at the hotel or sign a contract with his boyfriend. We skipped all of Angel's journey just for a snappy music video about SA. Maybe I'm a minority but I would have loved to see Angel and Val as toxic boyfriends, and THEN have Angel stad up/break up to him because of his "found family".

[@NoriSausrus]

They had 4 years to cook this show and somehow it still come out raw I swear Viv just create the show to show off her ships with 16 years old humor

[@swampwench]

god im so happy im not the onlt one that got such a bad taste in my mouth with loser baby being the song that was sung at episode 4 it is such bad timing and in such bad taste who let this get out of storyboarding and into the final draft💀

[@SurnaturalM]

14:03 As someone who worked in the "movie" industry when I was younger, when you have done 12hrs filming, you feel tired and the first thing you'll do is to take a shower, something that can get help you going through the night, and you don't want to talk about it to anybody. It's the very last thing you do. It also make any kind of romantic relationship impossible, because the last thing you want is to get home and do what you did all day long. The thought of it is disgusting. A good piece of cake is great to have, but when you have to eat 3 whole cakes, you don't want to even think about it 1h later. That's the same thing. It took me years after that to be able to bond with someone and have a normal relationship. I'm very lucky to have been able to turn my life around, have a wife and kids. We lost many people over the years by self deletion because they didn't saw any way out, it's a very serious situation that shouldn't be treated as being mundane as they did in the show, just in case that a misguided young fellow might think it's a good idea. It's not. Not everyone can fix themselves after such expérience. Even less if you're a straight guy. People usually laughed it off and told me how "lucky" I was to do that job.

[@Azestii]

btw Loser Baby I think was about not blaming yourself for the abuse. Angel has low self esteem and is ashamed of the situation he's found himself in. Husk is saying that "it doesn't make you a loser look how far I fell. Things may suck but we have each other". Its not perfect but its the first step to Angel getting out of that relationship As a victim myself, its easy to think of yourself as loser for continuing to endure it. You start to think you deserve it. Husk is showing Angel there is something better and that's the point. We're in Hell but we're in Hell together and we can support each other. It parallels real world examples of queers supporting other queers despite their bad situations. I think is the wider message of the song and its nothing to be ashamed of. If Husk tries to say "you're the best guy in the world and you should leave Val" Angel will reject this notion. Not only because he can't leave but because he thinks he deserves the abuse. It also reminds him of the fact that he signed the contact and bring up feelings of shame and he might start blaming himself. Not defending the shows choices. I am really really not fan of the fact they decided to make slavery a thing. "I own you" is such AN AWFUL. And I do mean AWFUL FUCKING LINE. It makes a really simple story a whole heckin' more convoluted since you're right Angel is literally bound by a contact, he's a slave and its not as easy as just packing it up and saying enough is enough. Its very weird and has some pretty terrible real world parallels. Kinda wish they had made it so he's in a contract or Val threatens to just straight up send him to the exterminators if he leaves but NO its gotta be slavery. Just.. ahhh

[@Shiftarus]

One of the major plot points of the entire series is contracts with devils. Its a show about demons.... thats one of the most common and understood elements of demonic lore.

[@Azestii]

@@Shiftarus im down with the idea I just don't think Viv executes it very well. It feels very convoluted and just kind of off-putting.

[@templebeast1324]

The problem I have with the song is that Husk and Angels situation isn't the same. Alastor is not that abusive to Husk as Valentino is to Angel Dust, even though they are both psychopaths. The rest doesn't bother me and I do like.

[@TheUnmitigatedDawn]

@@templebeast1324Alastor *is* abusive to Husk, that is shown in Episode 5. It's just a more insidious type of abuse than sexual.

[@julianogueira714]

Actually there's something in the show that indicates angel could walk up, in episode 6 he says val can do anything to him *in the studio* like their contract says, i don't remember the rest but even the chain was on his wrist, not neck and it seemed to be weaker, i think it implies that angel if angel never came back to the studio he wouldn't have to obey valentino Sure valentino could meet him on the street and drag him back or kill him, but now angel is friends with the literal princess of hell and husk, and alastor probably would help just to piss the v's I think poison is how angel tries to pretend he enjoys it all, the sex the drugs the attention, that he is living the life, and he actually enjoy some parts, but despite how he tries to delude himself, he hates it, he is miserable and he knows he can't escape and that it will kill him one day

[@Nigh_Temptation]

The more I really think about this show, the angrier it makes me. Some people say the only positive is the musical numbers, WHAT? These are some of the worst musical numbers I've seen. They add nothing to the story, all the characters sing the same type of song (even though they are all from different cultures and time periods), and the lyrics are usually... a choice. When the show first came out, I rewrote the whole thing to try and see how much I could fix, and honestly you really can't just fix a few things. The entire story, the themes the designs, the mood/tone, the characters themselves need a massive overhaul. I remember naming my Hazbin AU "The Only Way Out is Up" or something like that. Great video my dude, sorry for rambling in your comment section :p

[@gunking_ghoul]

absolutely huge fan of the fact you just SAY the words you mean, no stupid workarounds that make it feel like a joke, they’re horrible words associated with horrible traumatic acts but i really appreciate that you don’t sugarcoat it.

[@aridatina]

A huge issue I had while watching the show are these moments it has where characters do something together and it's supposed to be this huge payoff, but I just never feel the impact that I feel like I should. My biggest example is in the courtroom when Charlie and Emily start singing together about how Heaven is a lie and such. It feels like it should have this big impact of "omg these two are finally standing up against the big bad together!!" but I just don't feel it - and it comes from the show not building relationships. Charlie and Emily barely interact and get to know eachother, and that in turn prevents them from connecting in a way where both of them standing up against Sera and Adam in court feels like a huge payoff. If they had taken the time to build a relationship between the two, then I feel like them singing together in court would've had a much bigger impact, but instead it just falls flat because this show and its' horrible pacing just can't build relationships. For instance, Emily could be excitedly asking Charlie about how it is living in Hell and such, since she's a curious soul or something. Then Charlie could mention Extermination day at some point during that convo, for Emily to then be confused and initially claim that Charlie is lying about it because Heaven wouldn't do that, would they? Eventually they both learn about how certain things don't add up and both realize how bad Heaven is - where the last straw is in court and they finally stand up against the Seraphim together. Idk, I just feel no connection between the characters. If the show just took the time to build these relationships, the actual happenings in the show would have such a bigger impact. Like Charlie and Lucifer reconciling? Felt nothing, because their "broken" relationship or whatever was not portrayed at all, so the payoff fell flat. The PILOT did Charlie's daddy issues better in one tiny scene alone - which is .. oof

[@smoky7924]

From what I've seen, Angel is always held to unreasonable standards. He's in an horrible situation where he's constantly abused and can't get out, but according to the show, he's supposed to: 1- be cheered up by a stranger (Husk) trauma-bonding with him, and have a brighter outlook on life after that 2- forgive and cheer up his friends when they mess up and make his situation worse 3- stand up to his abuser when he picks on his friends, even in the face of getting worse repercussions for it 4- passively forgiving Charlie who claims to care for him but, let's be real, has the power to free him from his abuser and simply doesn't. The whole moral surrounding him irks me, for a character who's supposedly surrounded by the "good guys" they sure do nothing to actually help him get out of his situation. It sure feels like the show implies that abuse victims are beautiful tragedies to admire, but nothing can be done to help them. If I were writing this show I wouldn't make his "rescue" easy, but I sure as hell would make the other characters TRY at least.

[@マヤ先輩]

I'm a casual watcher of Hazbin Hotel, and when I first watched hazbin hotel it felt like reading a book without using your imagination. It was a good watch, but if we're talking about how serious the theme is the show, it felt like watching one of the worst series in nickelodeon😅 in my opinion, the characters didn't have that much deeper depth and are just characters who are just stereotypical like angel dust being the stereotypical gay guy and Charlie being the naive immature character. And when you said how it's written like a fanfiction, it's really embarrassing for Viv when some/many fanfiction have better writing than Hazbin hotel. Hazbin hotel just brings 2014 Tumblr edgy phase or wattpad esque.

[@nighthawkcry]

if your gonna watch hazbin hotel,just watch the good place

[@remnants9974]

I saw some speculation that the story changed focus from "sinners in hell trying to be redeemed" to the heaven vs hell plot because the good place already did the former, but that doesn't make a lot of sense... it's not like the latter is any more original anyway.

[@SupremePotato]

As someone who has a lot of gripes with Hazbin and wishes it was better, you managed to nail them perfectly!

[@darkvioletcloud]

Thank you! These weren't even all of my issues with the show, but the biggest ones that I had. I could go on and on about the characters themselves and the plot, but making this video took super long as it is.

[@MarionNatsu]

Poison is such a tonal whiplash in Masquerade. Addict music video does a way better job at portraying Angel's character, the terrible situation he's in, AND his relationship with Cherry Bomb all in 5:24 minutes compared to the entirety of 1st season . They used flashbacks but in a far better way then show ever did. Just boggles the mind.

[@brother_leonardous7950]

Im not too surprised, the show turned out bad. What do you expect from a narcissistic tumblrist? A lot of em are like this, and they suck at writing.

[@Jdudec367]

How is she a "narcissistic tumblrist"? You say they suck at writing but that's easy for you to say is it? Not making an entire indie show along with others and making it this big. But sure she is apparently a narcissis.

[@SodaFrizz666]

By narcissistic tumblrist, they are referring to Vivzie's inability to take criticism. Truthfully the Hazbin cast are her old deviant art-tumblr ocs, she doesn't want them to change, and doesn't see her writing flaws. All she does is fight and defend every ounce of criticism, even the kindest criticism, on Twitter endlessly. She writes what she wants even if it literally feels like a fanfic that sucks! So narcissistic tumblrist is not far from the truth

[@Jdudec367]

@@SodaFrizz666 I mean she can take some criticism and has in the past tbf, I wouldn't say she is really narcissistic, she doesn't display true signs of being a narcissis. I mean...her cast has changed designs and roles and have developed too so I would say they have changed, and maybe she can see some writing flaws, she has acknowledged the millie criticism before actually. Not all of the criticism, just some she feels is unfair, certainly not the kindest criticism. I don't see how it feels like a fanfic tbh at all, and while some of it clearly sucks most of it honestly isn't that bad. Nah it seems pretty untrue really.

[@Sofia_Writes]

Ig you could argue the only good "Tumblr cartoon" was that one cancelled cartoon on Netflix that was actually pretty decent... But maybe people hate that one too because the main characters are not neurotypical cis and straight lol

[@al8951]

​@@Jdudec367bruh you are so embarrassing its insane

[@inklingplush7592]

low key the fan fiction i’ve read for this show has more put together plot than the show

[@GustavoSuperSonic2001]

This has to be one of the better views of this show, I seen that Episode 4 is one of the favorites of the Hazbin Crowd, and you just speak all the issues I've never notice witt the episode, I will take notes on your critique, I really liked your notes on Pacing. Great video!