My Mixed Feelings On Hazbin Hotel

[@virson4204]

i think my problem with hazbin hotel is that it's trying to be a cosmic political drama ending in an epic final battle when the pilot pitched a more episodic show about the question of if bad people can redeem themselves and honestly that show sounds a lot more interesting to me, i'm not even saying the heaven v hell conflict couldn't be intesresting, just that as someone who watched the pilot when it came out that this show just isn't the premise that was advertised to people all those years back honestly i'm still in shock alistor isn't even the main antagonist despite how much set up there was for that in the pilot

[@TheUnmitigatedDawn]

At least Helluva Boss knows that it just wants to be some romantic drama now.

[@anerdyrat]

Yeah, I feel like if they should've started off with a more episodic season one of the characters doing a bunch of excises to try and get better, then the revel that happens in episode 1 could happen at the end of the season. Then they could through the whole "heaven is corrupted" storyline with the big finale, after we've already had a season to grow attached to the characters and could see them wanting to protect the hotel.

[@kaykay8855]

⁠@@TheUnmitigatedDawnwell Helluva Boss, at least the pilot, advertised itself as a startup mercenary/assassin group. Their premise was that they go up to earth and kill humans, for the half of season 1 and most of season 2, they don’t do that.

[@cassidyarnold505]

Yes it tried to be epic

[@Poyoki.]

@@kaykay8855went from imps in hell working as assassins and killing humans on earth for money to the stolitz show😞

[@UltimaThe-mz8ih]

35:46 that is a thing that annoys me, the only reason I know how these characters got into hell is because I just watch a lot of deep dives on the characters. None of them ever tell us what they did to get down, you’d think that’d be important, and so far none of the characters talk about their human days at all which is such wasted potential. Why in a show about dead people trying to get to heaven by redeeming their sins they committed while alive do we hardly talk about the sins they committed while they were alive? That’s so stupid

[@rutyqutykandi1361]

Someone tried to argue with me that we "already know their bad people, why do we need to know about what they did on Earth." Then why is this show set in Hell? Yes we can see them living in their sins. But is that even what they did on Earth or is it something they started in when they got sent? This is never explained.

[@UltimaThe-mz8ih]

@@rutyqutykandi1361 yeah like all of angel’s habits could’ve been started in hell, the average watcher wouldn’t even know that he was part of a MAFIA FAMILY like why does he never talk about that? Why do they never talk about the reasons they committed sins, any trauma, this show could just be a fantasy with a demon/angel hierarchy and it’d basically be the same

[@rutyqutykandi1361]

@@UltimaThe-mz8ih I always thought Angel's stardom only started in Hell and because of the show not really mentioning what people did in life, some might have thought all of it started in Hell.

[@UltimaThe-mz8ih]

@@rutyqutykandi1361 yeah and I don’t even know what sir pentious did to get into hell, seriously I’m curious about this stuff, there is so much wasted potential in this show

[@rutyqutykandi1361]

@@UltimaThe-mz8ih We don't even know what time period he's actually from because it can easily change. We know he's paranoid and makes crazy inventions, that's it.

[@dietben9309]

Husk should’ve had a beer gut

[@Fluffycakez5]

Definitely, he should had been CHONKY, because cats are usually Chonky and I call that a missed opportunity

[@iwantedtobethatanomaly2270]

​​@@Fluffycakez5 and also because he seems way older than the rest of the cast + he doesn't seem like the kind of person who cares much about their own health or looks even.

[@manuba_]

​@@iwantedtobethatanomaly2270 it's funny cuz he's actually one of the youngest, I believ he died in the 70's or 80's while Angel died in the 40's, Nifty in the 50's i believe, and Alastor in the 1920's

[@SlimeMcfly]

⁠​⁠@@manuba_He seems to have died the most recently of the main cast(so the newest to hell), but Angel was born in the 1910s, Husk in the 1910s/1900s, Alastor in the 1900s/1890s, and Sir Pentious was was born in the mid 19th century?? Nifty was born the latest(in the 1930s) and is the youngest. But Husk is the “Oldest” in that he was alive on earth the longest. If that makes sense?

[@manuba_]

@SlimeMcfly yeah he died the oldest but does that really mean anything? their decades in hell still count, sure they don't physically age but they still accumulate life experience which should make a difference in their relationships for sure, unfortunately like a lot of the backstory info from these characters, it's not really considered in their writing

[@Birdyboys]

“Alastor always smiles so nobody knows what he’s thinking” Alastor: constantly explains his motives and plans Bravo Viv you’ve done it again

[@chaosinrush4033]

He doesn't ever explain his motive or plan. At best he hints at it in the very last song of the series. You're delusional

[@Brittany_Oliver]

You realize he's lying right?

[@shelly4537]

​@Brittany_Oliverdude please, everyone in sh9w knows he's got ulterior motives, literally the only unknown thing about him is the contract he's under

[@noahbutler7057]

@Brittany_Oliver Zero reason why Alastor would even lie about his motives and such. Why would he put himself in that spot in the first place? Bro's most interesting detail was the mystery surrounding his plans and motives, and he hid it behind a facade. Up until they decided to rip that out of his character and have him yap about those motives both in regular convos & during a whole song.

[@Brittany_Oliver]

@noahbutler7057 yes actually he does. He has plenty reason to lie. He also has secrets that being as he never told any of the other overlords why he was at the hotel yet when he was at the hotel suddenly he says it is for his amusement? He's been acting like a big baby this whole time and suddenly it's for entertainment? No. The show mentions he sold his soul. So the reason he's at the hotel likely draws somewhere over there. He also hides why he was gone for 7 years and he hides the fact that he's actually weaker than he seems to everyone. So yes he has PLENTY of reason.

[@JitterJatter]

Funny you mention the salt thing. As an artist I have my own hyper fixations and am currently writing a comic. I like to think of writing a story as baking a cake. What are the main components of cake? Flour, sugar, fat, stabilizer(eggs or seeds). Flour is the main story, sugar is the characters(too much is too sweet, too many characters are overwhelming) fat is lore(a little is okay but too much can overpower) and the stabilizer is the themes i guess. The fun of baking a cake is choosing the flavors. A chocolate cake can be simple and rich(simple stories that are compelling). A spiced cake is complex and intense(deep lore heavy stories). Vanilla cake is simple but can be made great with the simple ingredients being fleshed out. I hope I’m making sense. You can have cakes that have mixed flavors(stories that take on a plethora of topics, stories, and world building). These cake can be fantastic but are often hard to do correctly. Think a chocolate cake with cinnamon spice added to it or even a slutty brownie(the cookie often has to be cooked longer than the brownie so you might get an over baked cookie and an undercooked brownie) Hazbin Hotel is a cake that originally had a good amount of flour but it eventually added too much, had too much sugar in the beginning, had too much fat, and not enough stabilizers and they also added wayyyy too many spices and add ins. I hope this all made sense. This video is hilarious btw.

[@Gazpachooo1]

@@JitterJatter I feel like I'm autistic enough to comprehend all of that lol. Beautiful analogy I guarantee I'm not stealing it definitely

[@JitterJatter]

@@Gazpachooo1 can’t wait to see the cake analogy next video “Helluva Booty”

[@outlawbeagle7458]

I agree with it, chef

[@runawayfromtoads674]

This made me really crave cake 🥺 I shall look for one while savoring how good and satisfying your analogy is-

[@peterjones426]

​@@Gazpachooo1Oh, thanks for validating my autism bro.

[@breadloaf4675]

What really irks me about this show is that it doesn't focus on what we were promised. Redemption. instead it focuses on a heaven vs hell plotline, which isn't what I came for, nor wanted. I also must ask, how does Charlie even plan to redeem sinners? using scout exercises? she doesn't even ask any of her patrons about their past or what they think landed them in hell in the first place. Charlie also never hired help, I'm sure they are some demons or sinners that were/are therapists to help with her hotel about redemption. The hotel is basically a rehab center.(Since rehab is a thing in the sister show) If Charlie wants to help sinners get redeem, I would assume the first thing she should do is ask about the sinners pasts so then she can figure out how to help from there, or hire actual therapists to also help out. I don't know if I got my point across well enough, but still TL;DR: Charlie's hotel is basically a rehab center and she should hire actual therapists.

[@raydarable]

There was an entire episode centered around how Charlie didn't know how to redeem sinners, that was the entire point of 'Welcome to Heaven'. And how do you know there are good therapists in Hell?

[@breadloaf4675]

@@raydarable The point of of "Welcome to Heaven" was that no one knew how to redeem a sinner or what gets a soul to Heaven, not just Charlie. but still, I'd still think she should've asked about her patrons pasts as humans, to see what she could've done from there to try and get her patrons to change their ways and help them get redeem. also I never said Good therapists to help, I meant more like just people who are trained therapists to help Charlie, or have someone Charlie can ask for advice to help her with the hotel and her patrons. I hope this cleared some things up? I'm not good at laying out my thoughts,

[@raydarable]

@@breadloaf4675 Charlie only had two patrons, one of which from before the pilot. It's implied she either already knew Angel Dust's backstory or Angel Dust refused to open up. As for Sir Pentious, I agree they should've delved more into that. As for the therapists, there's still no proof any exists in Hell.

[@breadloaf4675]

@@raydarable There's a comic about how Angel Dust got to the hotel in the first place, but I don't think the regular watcher is going to go out of their way to find it. Charlie doesn't really know Angel Dust in the long run either? She didn't even know what Angel's job was before the events of Masquerade and that's pretty telling on her progress of redeeming sinners. The show never really delves into Angel's backstory either, only die-hards who go looking or knew the character before the show aired would know he was in the mafia along with his family. and Sir Pentious, I don't have any thoughts on him because we don't know much about him either, but they could've shown these two's backstories of what got them into hell, like their backstories, then we can see the progress of these two. for the Therapists, the only reason I bring them up is because Rehab is a thing in helluva boss which implies there are medical assists in and around hell. and for rehab you're going need therapists to help you get over addiction or other things. So it implies there are therapists, and sinners were still people on earth, I'd assume some of them are trained therapists too that Charlie can hire, or they don't want to work as therapists again, which is understandable.

[@raydarable]

@@breadloaf4675 Angel Dust said what his job was in episode one. I feel like his backstory is being saved for season 2. And weren't the Helluva Boss therapists in a different ring?

[@Coldvi]

The fact that Viv didn’t even write the pilot and the first ep of the show, it was her friend 😭😭

[@megtrapmaid]

Plus, the first episodes were the ones that Viviane Medrano had the most hand in. So, the worst episodes- Take'er out of the team, then the second season will be great.

[@Donnies_left_eyebrow]

Is that why it sucked so much? (It’s not bad, just not my favorite)

[@teapartytaIes]

i thought the first episode was entirely written by viv

[@Randomyoutuber-4831]

No, they just worked on additional writing for the script. They were credited as such.

[@stellaomera8489]

source ,,trust me bro'' right

[@BreadBush]

Cant wait for the episode where Charlie has a duet with Hitler about how it starts with sorry

[@adrianwallerborg8865]

@@BreadBushXD

[@V_MC]

Alastor is probably the most fumbled character in the show. He went from the pilot where he was charming, funny, had that amazing voice and sound effects that mimic 1930s radio entertainment, an aesthetically appealing design, and of course, the unnerving mystery behind his intentions. In the show, they watered down that personality to basically just "oOoh he's EVIL, check out how mysterious and EVIL he is" ..not to mention the horrible shift in color scheme. PINK DOES NOT SUIT HIM, WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!

[@roxycauldwell544]

Alastor got BODIED. He went from a southern manners manipulator to a cringe Twitter yassqueen. The Radioapple ship makes me want to gouge my eyes out.

[@StupidSemyazza]

Pink AND the white line on his jacket that by color and luminosity theory makes you capture your attention in the bright color (white again) and not look at him in the face. Also, there is no white anywhere else in his design, so it's taken out of nowhere :b

[@Novaurawr]

Apparently I saw a lot of ppl saying that the reason Alastor voice was changed and why he doesn’t have sound effects anymore is bc in the past fans found it annoying so viv changed it but I’m not sure esp bc everyone now says they prefer the old much more 😭

[@retcongecko1016]

Edward Bosco’s (pilot) voice is great because it sounds like a man putting on a trans-Atlantic accent: his voice cracks, there are moments when it slips a little bit, his tone gets frustrated to match his mood, etc.,. The performance is just so much more alive. It feels like he’s putting on the act of a radio host rather than it being his only gimmick. The show’s voice relies so heavily on the static to make you think he’s still performing for radio, the VA himself is just pitching up his voice, which anybody can do. Seriously, I hear him and all I can think of is online comic fandubs done by teenagers (no hate the actor himself, but the voice is a downgrade). Don’t even get me started on his plot relevance. His contributions to the plot can literally be summarised as “tells Charlie angels can die” and introducing the cannibals, who are literally just there to be cannon fodder. Pilot Alastor was great because he showed the audience how desperate and out of her depth Charlie was. She’s forced to rely on someone she knows is untrustworthy because the hotel is literally falling apart. Within seconds of the two of them making a deal, he remodels the whole place and gives it 2 key staff members. Not to mention him stopping the hotel from being destroyed by Sir Pentious. Hell, he’s the one who came up with the name “Hazbin Hotel”. The writing clearly showed how much more capable Alastor was, which made him, if not threatening, at least someone to keep an eye on. Why does someone who so clearly doesn’t believe in the hotel invest so much time and resources into it? The show cut so much of that context out, so now he’s just “character with a funky gimmick #6”. The show wants you to worry about what he’s up to but he never does anything, so he spends the whole time posturing to artificially draw attention to himself. The writing is so amateurish in the show it drives me insane. The pilot had its issues, but the comedy, characters and setting had some actual thought put into them. Watching the show reminds me of the stuff I wrote when I was 13, except this was written by people in their 30s.

[@V_MC]

@@retcongecko1016 THIS. THIS is why i don't like the show Alastor, all these points summarize it perfectly!

[@ariachermansky7836]

IMPORTANT Vizie also refused to let the pilot voiceactors use their own voices for a charity stream for one of the voiceactor's partner who was battling cancer He died

[@Gazpachooo1]

On one hand that sounds far-fetched. But on the other hand I don't like her and I'm going to choose to believe this anyways

[@ariachermansky7836]

@Gazpachooo1 If you look up a video titled "Vixiepop is a bad person" it goes deeper into it It sounds far fetched, but actually happened. The creator of the video also calculated that Vizie has a 50% turnover rate PER EPISODE compared to 25-50% average YEARLY turnover rate for animation

[@dollzo]

​@Gazpachooo1 you're literally me

[@michellehernandez5697]

I'm pretty sure this came to be from her contract with A24 (the studio who helped produce the show). Before things were fully secured with the studio, Viv was pretty okay with the voice actors using the characters for charities and streams and would even play along with them or give facts about the characters. I'm assuming that something in her contract with A24 and the fact that it's the original voice actors involved (aka could influence the audience) forced her to keep the show and its characters under wraps. Though it is horrible what happened, it is obvious that she would not jeopardize her own show.

[@kamiwriterleonardo6345]

Never ask Viv why there isn't any WW2 German or a certain Austrian in Hell, but instead there's a bunch of LGBT people

[@doagii]

i was about to say “well they have jeffrey dahmer” and then remembered… right… he’s gay too i guess…

[@russiantreeman5976]

im pr sure they explained in a live stream that people like the austrian painter were kept secluded from the rest of hell and tortured or smth which is a copout but wtv

[@kamiwriterleonardo6345]

@russiantreeman5976 Which isn't explained in the show, and defeats the whole purpose of HELL. You know, THE secluded place where sinners are supposed to be tortured.

[@doagii]

@ “hell” in hazbin and helluva does NOT look like hell tbh.. like where’s the eternal suffering and punishment for their sins??? they’re still able to indulge in their sins too like alcoholism, drug abuse, abuse in general, COPIOUS amounts of sexual activity too, like… just because they have an extermination every year does NOT mean it’s hell, this is literally just earth

[@russiantreeman5976]

@@kamiwriterleonardo6345 yeah i agree i was just saying what i know 😭 the show definitely romanticises hell way too much

[@Pancakes-n-Waffles168]

Guys, just because you swear, have ses/sex jokes, and lots violence doesn't make your adult show mature It also has the chance to ruin your writting

[@F1guRas]

FR, I think what makes an adult film adult, is when they talk about complex topics like taxes or politics or buisnesses. Like you can have an adult show without sex. Sex can be used as a plot device ig but only if done right

[@lusaminefushiguro5332]

Let me say something: Viv should really,and I mean REALLY,have someone,ANYONE who keeps her focused and tells her to rail it back a bit and also tells her to not make animators suffer with ridiculous overdesigning I feel like it's more obvious in the spin-off show Helluva Boss,but Viv has a terrible,terrible bad habit of derailing plots. Helluva Boss' pilot showed the concept of "The Office,but they're assassins from hell" and that was great,but at some point,who knows why,it turned into "the drama of this asshole imp and the owl aristocrat dude" which is... Very wild And I get that feeling,for example at one point I made a fantasy story about defying fate and forging your own path. I got kinda derailed and became obsessed with the romance between a dwarf and elf side characters cause I thought they looked extremely cute together. Difference being that *I ain't making an actual show* and if at one point I did that *I'd have to tone it down and focus on the plot I stablished* Viv lacks this awareness to stay on topic. So that mixed in with a crappy industry that thinks EIGHT episodes is a reasonable lenght for this premise (it's not). Make up for a show with god awful rhythm,lack of focus,and extremely good concepts that get buried under questionable writing

[@sof-rh8jp]

THIS oh my God aside from everything else I think that this is the reason BOTH shows have a huge storyline issue. They give you a premise (simple but decent, even good in hazbin's case) that should be at the basis of the plot for every episode, with SOME extra stuff to dive deeper into the characters, but then it just becomes this deep "emotional" (not really, it just feels forced), politically correct mess, where at some point people just get bored and lost. If we got to ask viv the question "what is this show about, in 3 words?" she'd probably go bonkers

[@TheUnmitigatedDawn]

Trust me, Viv quote tweeting an SA fetish comic is only a fraction of the reasons she's terrible person. The treatment of Spindlehorse's employees cannot be overstated. That company has 50% turnover rate.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

W H A T

[@TheUnmitigatedDawn]

@@cosmicspacething3474 Search up the video "Vivziepop is a Bad Person Part 2" and take a look at the spreadsheet linked in the description. It analyzes the known employees credited from each episode of HB and HH and through computation it turned out that it hate an average turnover rate of 50%. Meaning that a lot of people leave the company in only a year.

[@MillyKKitty]

1. Vivzie called Kendraws, who worked on the pilot, an abuser to everyone she knew, after they had simply asked for credit for them and their friend, and for her to not use their ideas, which they talked about privatively BEFORE officially working on the pilot. Vivzie also misgendered them on purpose during this. 2. Stopped the ex-voice actor of Cherri Bomb from taking voice requests during HuniCast to collect donations for her late husband's medical bills. He had also been there when she'd found out she wasn't recast. 3. Called the creator of Chicken Nugget, Kyra (Back when they were voicing the Buzzfeed Cupcake character) a fake, man-fearer, victim-wannabe person inconjuction for getting to Buzzfeed. Later Vivzie suspected Kyra of talking behind her back, so she sent one of her friends to basically stalk her, and when that said friend said Kyra said none of the short, Vivzie blacklisted her from ever working with her projects. 4. Stopped Erin Frost from working on Farfetched by telling Ashley (the show runner) that Erin was too mentally unstable "out of concern" for them. 5. Some of the original voice actors couldn't join the self-funded Goodbye song because, in the words of Edward Bosco, "It could jeopardize my role in Helluva Boss". 6. Joked about warning Ashley about Fable (the now director of Lackadaisy) of being annoying, but not doing it only because they were active in a cleanup/animator channel. 7. Allegedly Nicholas Cole Jordan (a background artist on the pilot) and their girlfriend were treated badly while working on the pilot. 8. Vivzie Said that an (undisclosed) agender artist they used to like was just "a female ashamed of their gender." There's a lot of stuff on the Kendraws thing and a recent video too, so def recommend that.

[@cosmicspacething3474]

@@MillyKKitty oh.

[@xavierhouston4650]

@@MillyKKitty No wonder she likes gays so much.

[@Spiderlass]

The best way to describe the vibe of this show is that it was written by an edgy Tumblr fujoshi theater kid. The sex jokes, the obsession with gay guys while the one lesbian relationship is left to rot, the random musical numbers, the overabundance of swearing, the creepy antagonist who smiles all the time but actually comes off as a try-hard, the entirety of Charlie's dad's character, the overwhelming telling and not showing, the fact that nearly every male character is a skinny Tumblr twink, angel dust,literally everything. It's not like... Irredeemably terrible I guess, but as someone who's been exposed to the internet since I was like 12 years old, all of this just SCREAMS that Vivian is someone hyper obsessed with fandoms who probably reads a LOT of fanfiction about gay characters from TV shows she likes.

[@avablair]

Emphasis on focusing on the gay guys and neglecting wlw 😭 I hateee it

[@scootie_scoot]

Fun fact! The fetish comic was done by one of the storyboard artists of the show, who storyboarded the poison segment! Oh joy!

[@Gazpachooo1]

@@scootie_scoot WHAT

[@Pancakes-n-Waffles168]

@@Gazpachooo1 "WHAT" is correct :D No seriously, WHAT

[@Battam_hates_UHHHHH]

WHAT??????

[@cresoma]

EUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

[@caiacw]

@@Gazpachooo1Raphielle (the storyboard artist) drew non-con NSFW art since before they started working for Viv. They made an animatic, which depicts Angel and Valentino’s relationship, and various frames of that animatic are so similar to some in the Poison segment in the actual show. So yeah. That’s disgusting.

[@katherinesmallbean3594]

Whenever I get into a story, one big thing I tend to care about is just that it makes sense. I can look past pacing being wonky, certain beats feeling contrived, characters having a bit of plot armor to keep things going, etc as long as the story is clicking. I can even forgive characters just "not thinking of something". Like, one of my favorite plots is the Ace Attorney Trilogy, and that story involves physics breaking stunts and parrots testifying in court. It's stupid as hell, but I can suspend my disbelief because it follows the dumb logic it set up. But then theres Hazbin. And for the life of me: the story about Vaggie being an angel drives me insane. They all think angels can't be harmed, yet she is an angel who was harmed. They say angels can only be harmed with angellic weapons, but Vaggie's wings were torn off by bare hands. And Lute's arm was wrecked by rubble. So... what the heck??? Did I miss something? I still had fun watching the show overall, but hiccups like that bug me so much. It just confuses me that details like that make it through the drafts.

[@Ashenhooks]

My biggest issue with the "vaggie's an angel" storyline is that as someone who went in completely blind, I had no idea her being an angel was supposed to be a secret until the reveal. Literally from episode one I could tell she was an angel and was really surprised when none of the characters knew.

[@catbunny4785]

Hazbin hotels fandom is just miraculous ladybugs fandom they think of what it couldve been instead of what it is

[@Birdyboys]

Something I never see anyone mention is that it feels a bit… contradictory that a show this meanspirited is about redemption? And this isn’t me complaining about the characters in hell being mean spirited, because they should be, but narratively this show seems to really enjoy punching down kinder characters like Pentious and treating SA survivors as fetish material who can’t escape their abuse no matter who they tell. Charlie is meant to be a Disney princess equivalent but she’s selfish, arrogant and has done more harm than good for the cast. Angel Dust was only improved thanks to Husk and Pentious is so flatly written that it feels like he would have turned good if someone patted him on the back.

[@ShoukoNishimiya17]

Finally someone who understands that and doesn't try to protect Charlie that she is nice and misunderstood 😂 god even Rachel Gardner from angels of death which has little problems and trauma is more kind and misunderstood than Charlie princess 😂 Charlie has narcisstic disorder and is horrible judging selfish hypocrite person I can say why

[@hubertberrum6242]

my only excuse for her is that...she's the Devil's daughter

[@lanahope04]

I was hoping she would have some self awareness but I guess she doesn’t

[@snorpington5910]

"I want to redeem my people so they are safe from extermination. Let's live where the exterminators are. Yay!"

[@Ninjafrog301]

pretty much everything about hazbin hotel was better in the pilot than in the full show

[@AlternatingShows]

REAL

[@squares4u]

I could not disagree more with this hot take… but I respect you for saying it 🫡

[@MrMisterTM]

Literally falling to my knees and punching the ground because there’s so much potential in this show! It could’ve been a Good Place situation where ideas and concepts of morality are discussed. What constitutes “good” and “evil”? The show even sorta starts to touch on it by having the angels not know what gets someone into heaven but then they just fucking drop it right there 😭 combine that with sloppy pacing and horrible dialogue, this show is the literal embodiment of wasted potential.

[@0x13horizon4]

My problem with Vivienne's writing is her lack of writing skills. I absolutely love it when creators are given as much free reign as possible to write what they envisioned but in this case it definitely needed some more time, more episodes, and expert drafting. Viv's writing style reads way too much of fan fiction. Which, for the shows main and huge audience, isnt a bad thing, but it makes it so so so much harder for it to be the hard hitting mainstream media it deserves to be.

[@abacaxigomes4416]

35:48 believe it or not...mafia. It would be cool if the series actually poked on this fact... Or explored ANYTHING about the characters' lives before eternal damnation. They say the word "redemption" every episode. However, I have a suspicion that Vivi doesn't REALLY understand the meaning of that word.

[@lauraw2526]

I get where you're coming from on this show, because I hate it but I'm also loving finding other people who say how much and why they hate it too. It's bad because it could have been great. I genuinely love many of the concepts and the potential direction of the story/many of the characters - if there was ACTUAL DECENT WRITING behind it. Makes me want to do my own remake of it, redesign all the characters and come up with a script and jokes that aren't complete .

[@yob757]

I thought the vees coming off as immature and non threatening was the point😭 alastor on the other hand who's actually supposed to feel threatening rarely curses

[@bunshark]

Sure, that could've been an idea. IF VALENTINO WASNT A R@PIST! How can you even begin to think about a r@pist to be "immature and non threatening"?

[@bunshark]

(Btw I'm not trying to be rude sorry if it comes out that way)

[@Novaurawr]

It’s not rly the vees but more so js vox who i think’s entire point was to make alastor seem cooler tbh

[@bunshark]

@@Novaurawr yeah but that's even worse in terms of writing

[@shukuchishikeishuu9540]

YESSS!! It warms my heart to see that even the people who aren’t fans of the show can’t help but love Sir Pentious, and (rightfully) refer to him as the best character.

[@TheUnmitigatedDawn]

Glad that even haters/detractors still think the soundtrack is awesome.

[@Birdyboys]

Admittedly the only song I find unpleasant is welcome to heaven and whatever it takes.

[@peterjones426]

This show has literally made me rethinking everything, specifically how to conduct my stories and characters. And for that, I hate it and all it stands for. Mostly because I realised I was doing the same thing due to loving my characters too much.

[@user-id3my6cr1r]

Good point, me as well. You can definetly tell that Alastor and Angel Dust are favourites of Vivsie since, to me anyway, they seem to sometimes be there just to be there. This video actually gives good advice about writing stories and character design in my opinion, well at least for me it made me think of writing stories in a more macro zoomed out way rather than my tendency (and likely many others) to overly focus on our favourite characters and have them mess up the story by being there just because we want to shove them in as much as possible.

[@secret1851]

It is stupid that THIS video made me rethink my character designs

[@Gazpachooo1]

@@secret1851 I'm not a real artist I'm just some gay dude in a devil costume please don't take my advice😭

[@secret1851]

@Gazpachooo1 No dude, your advice seriously changed my perspective. As someone who wants to release an inde show in the future, this vid helped an embarrassing amount

[@Kawaiipony_Productions]

@@Gazpachooo1 You still gave some solid advice actually for character designing. I myself do a bit of character designing every once in a while and you talking about what makes a design good or bad are actually some big talking points about character design.

[@F1guRas]

@@Gazpachooo1I AM an artist and your points were good, I can see you did your research on character design.

[@nicholeisherestill]

@Gazpachooo1 no your advice was amazing I'm a artist and character designer and the advice is amazing

[@jaderoze9156]

Every time I see the full version of Hazbin I wonder how they went from the awesome creative taking itself serious piolet to whatever crap it is now.

[@MrSophire]

I am Catholic, I was drilled in my head at a young age that foundation of your religion is key. The issue with HH is there is no foundation. For example, as a Catholic, sex before marriage is a sin. There are many reasons for this but the foundation reason is because we are created in God’s image and the purpose of sex is sacrifice oneself for the other which could produce life. Since God is life then that is good. Sex out of marriage reduces the persons participating in it to sexual objects instead of sexual beings, because they don’t want to sacrifice for creating a life but just misuse it for purely pleasure. A foundation of Catholicism is saying yes to life. Hazbin doesn’t have a foundation. Why is it this a sin? Why is it bad? I am trying not bring my religion into this but if the show is about redemption then it needs to know what needs to be redeemed.

[@jaderoze9156]

@@MrSophire That makes sense but I was mostly referring to how bland the characters got. Like instead of them being fun and mysterious they are now goofy and annoying. But you had a really good analysis.

[@MrSophire]

@@jaderoze9156 thanks

[@calamaria9221]

Viv threw out and burned bridges with the majority of people that worked on the pilot. All the good parts of the pilot came from other people.

[@jaderoze9156]

I think people would be a lot more forgiving of the character designs if it was actually explained in the first season that the demons character designs are based on how they died and lived. It honestly makes no sense as to why that wasn't shown in any way.

[@Austin-zc9gp]

You mostly will have to go to old Viv streams because I’m pretty sure she talks about the characters and how they died, but that’s not a good thing because the show should be the one to explain that. Not just from old livestreams Viv did.

[@jaderoze9156]

@@Austin-zc9gp literally

[@raydarable]

I thought that was pretty easy to figure out.

[@Goovdluck687]

Husk did fly in the last song of Hazbin Hotel but I dont blame you for not realizing that. It was like a one second thing

[@regularly_priced]

19:59 He acts like this because he’s being hypersexual. Hypersexuality is a trauma response from people who suffer from repeated sexuaI abuse. Because of his recurring sexuaI trauma, he believes his only worth is through sex or sex-related things, so sex becomes his whole thing. It’s a facade, too-he acts that way because it’s easier to see people reject a caricature of himself than it is to see them reject the real him. (A therapist explained it better) I’m not saying his character is written well, or even that this part of his character is written well. But I am saying that there is a reason he acts that way.

[@Gazpachooo1]

Yeah I definitely picked up on that and probably should have brought it up in some way. Unfortunately he is annoying so I don't care

[@Ecstacy333]

Also i think the sexual harrasement could possibly be a result of hpd, though thats just a theory of mine

[@Birdyboys]

Hypersexual people don’t behave like this and it’s a massively common misconception that hypersexual sexually harass people for fun. It’s also worth pointing that Viv writes a lot of her queer men like this. Blitzo, Moxxie, Fizzarolli, Stolas (season 1 Stolas anyways), etc are all sex obsessed and only Fizzarolli hasn’t sexually harassed another man

[@regularly_priced]

@@Birdyboys ah I forgot about the sexual harassment. I wasn’t thinking about that part, I was talking about how he objectifies himself and makes sex his whole personality. I guess the harassment is another reason that this part of his character is not written well. And Viv does write a lot of her characters like this yeah. But in the story, it’s almost explicitly stated that Angel acts this way as a coping mechanism

[@HONEYDROPGALAXY]

For all your questions about husks character design- he was designed by a child that’s litterally it he was designed with zero personality or story in mind other then to be angels partner, that’s it there is no logic there is no concept art he’s just that

[@mirzasilva737]

You know, this show did a terrible job of making me "sympathize" with the Sinners. And you know why? Because they didn't give me any reason to think that they're redeeming themselves. Angel never has to face the consequences of the actions that landed him in Hell, his only problem is Valentino and drugs. At no point is Sir Pentius questioned about the fact that he's a weapons manufacturer who profits from wars, no, his only problem is that he behaved like a "cartoon super villain". I don't mind Adam carrying out the Exterminations, in fact, I'm glad to know that, even if it's just for one day, Adam is giving the sinners the punishment they deserve for being the scum of humanity. Aside from the day of the Extermination, Hell doesn't feel like Hell, there are no demons to make the sinners be punished, they have complete freedom to do whatever they want and they actively choose to be sinners and enjoy it. If it weren't for Valentino, Angel seems to enjoy Hell, doing shit and getting away with it. When we get to episode 6, and Emily has the nerve to call the Sinners "innocent souls" I swear I've never wanted to kill a character as much as I did at that moment. I just thought: I don't want the Sinners to go to Heaven, after all, what about the victims of these sinners who are in Heaven? And what's the message? Is it "You can be a shitty person and make other people's lives hell while you're alive without any problem, because when you die, just go to the Hazbin Hotel, cry a little, say how poor you are a victim of circumstances, sing a song and boom, you can go to Heaven without problems." ?

[@WeebGuru6]

Yes my brother I agree

[@AngelloGomez-nh6cc]

This is easily the dumbest thing I've ever heard first of all You do realize not all sinners are evil right? I honestly don't blame Emily for thinking it was wrong because it definitely was it was not in Sarah's place to decide to kill sinners she had no right to do that not to mention she lied about it from heaven for who knows how long and second of all you don't even know the crimes they committed so calling all of them the scum of humanity is a little bit ridiculous if you ask me the sinners in hell have their own children they have families like hellborns are you saying those demons deserve to Die too? If so why what did they do wrong it's not their fault they were born in hell I'm not saying all the sinners are innocent I'm also not saying all of them are guilty it's not always in black and white sometimes it's in Gray

[@WeebGuru6]

@@AngelloGomez-nh6cc yea no this is the dumbest thing u heard of

[@mirzasilva737]

@@AngelloGomez-nh6cc So prove it to me. Which sinner doesn't deserve to be in Hell? Which sinner is "not so bad"? Which sinner shows genuine regret for his mistakes on Earth? We are in a series whose villain is just pure one-dimensional evil, Heaven can't even give real arguments to prevent Charlie's theory from falling under its own weight. A show that denies Lucifer's mistakes reduces them to simply a "misunderstanding." A show that refuses to show the actions that led sinners to Hell. A show that denies Adam his entire origin because it runs the risk of people sympathizing with his actions. A show that treats Sinners as people who "just made a few mistakes," that denies the consequences of their actions. A show that treats Heaven as wrong when Sinners have never shown in 10,000 years that they were interested in redemption. A show that refuses to create real rules to judge people. A show where the only thing sinners have to do is apologize and solve the problems they have in Hell. Fuck the victims. Fuck what these shits did in life. All that matters is the sinners' victimizing cries. There is no "gray morality," no sinner is confronted about their past on Earth. Sera is wrong and screw it, her point of view doesn't matter. There is no moral discussion here. The series is clearly divided into good guys and bad guys. Should I be mad at Heaven for killing sinners? Why? Sinners kill each other and enjoy doing it. Lucifer is responsible for Hell, but he was a negligent, victim-like coward who preferred to keep making useless ducks. It's very easy to go to Heaven in Hazbin, you can be a shit intentionally your whole life, don't worry! Just go to Charlie's Hotel, sing a song apologizing and ""sacrifice"" yourself and that's it! Now you can live in the same place as innocent people and people who tried hard to be decent human beings. Again, there is no gray morality in this series, Charlie is right, Adam and Lute are wrong, Lucifer is just a misunderstood victim... you call that ""gray morality""? Please don't make me laugh.

[@AngelloGomez-nh6cc]

@mirzasilva737 you kind of ignored that point about hellborns what about them? Do they deserve to Die to if so why The Exorcist literally kill children sure their children who are demons but they're still children nonetheless and again not all the Sinners are bad this is like saying if a black person was a serial killer this makes every black person a serial killer you don't know most of the Sinners crimes you have no idea what they did or what they do in hell day-to-day you are jumping to conclusions way too fast

[@darkreflection9087]

44:37 I looked up when Gravity Falls ended and it said on Google February 15, 2016 it feels like the show only ended recently but it’s actually been like 8 years ago f$&k realizing how old we are hurts

[@MitsandChips2]

I found my way to this video because I just finished the latest episode of Helluva Boss and - as someone who casually followed both Helluva and Hazbin (mostly on youtube, not really on other platforms,) since both pilots dropped, all I can say is…I’m tired, boss. I’m tired of missing key backstory or context because so much exposition is posted to social media, but not included in the actual shows. I’m tired of being pitched a really interesting characters that Vivzie strangles because she can’t be bothered to (metaphorically) kill her “pwecious darlings!” I’m tired of being promised mature, nuanced themes that end up manifesting as mid 2010s-era tumblr fanfiction of itself. I’m tired of the backends of the shows being a toxic mess, and that chaos translating to random ups and downs in quality (imho). I saw all this happen before when I watched the Voltron reboot on Netflix. I hate watching it all happen again, with some differences here and there but otherwise just as painfully.

[@zennzero5617]

I just want to point out that the pilot's events are cannon, just not the nitty gritty details of character interactions. So fun! Alastor's original character was more of a goofy character with a 'dark side' and ended in the final being a "dark" character with minimal goof. There is a reason people liked Alastor's original personality than the one that came to be.

[@WeebGuru6]

Nah episode 5 and 6 really show this problems in full stride being Charlie has no idea what she is doing and the story bends over backwards to make her right

[@Ididtherightthing]

And her “daddy issues” that get referenced so much earlier in THE SAME FREAKING EPISODE are resolved in the last third of episode 5

[@Viasyl030]

I can admit that this show may have its problems but I am also aware that I had fun watching it. There’s a lot of writing issues and the pacing is atrocious and yet I look forward to the second season. I wanna see them improve

[@eliselianaboyd2547]

If you don't like something dosen't watch it. There's more than one show in the world to watch and viv not going to change anything because you don't like it seeing that she got four more seasons to nake and alot of people wanting to see them

[@toxicannon3670]

@@eliselianaboyd2547 my brother in christ they said they enjoyed the show even with all its flaws, not absolutely despised it and demanded changes😭

[@nicholeisherestill]

Yeah I agree I think ima personaly redesign them and re write a good bit of stuff

[@Collie-King]

I love the show, I know it’s flawed and not very appealing to a lot of people, but as long as the criticism is fair I can 100% get behind it. Great review!

[@incubabe]

Little rant thing :pp - When it comes to Vox, I love him. He stands out from the rest of the cast bc he isn't just different shades of red, and his silhouette (specifically his TV head). HOWEVER, he really was wasted potential. If I can remember correctly, his biggest "threat" to the main cast is that at some point in the past, he almost defeated Alastor (which seems pretty easy to do ngl) and almost got him to join the Vees. It would've been cool to see his take on a more active role in the final episode in some way. - Alastor doesn't really seem that strong bc the majority of the people he attacks/kills are weak demons like the loan sharks. He was never shown actually DEFEATING someone stronger, like the overlords that he was IMPLIED to kill (w/o ever actually showing how he did it, great job at showing character strength Viv!!). That's why it feels like he's so weak, he mostly kills much weaker demons (that even Angel kills in ep 4) and he gets his ass handed to him by Adam without landing any major damage on the dude. - Angel is flawed, and I could see where they were trying to go with him, but it's horribly executed bc they don't show Angel facing any actual consequences. It sucks more with his trauma bc it feels like they're defending him by saying "Hes traumatized!! Hes a traumatized lil baby who can do no harm!!". Which, really sucks to see bc trauma like Angel's shouldn't be used as a justification, but rather explanation. For example, a way Angel should've been characterized is: Angel Dust is hypersexual due to his trauma of working as a "homosexual adult worker", and due to the industry and Valentino never asking for Angel's consent on "fun time", Angel makes people uncomfortable around him by how overwhelmingly sexual he is. His trauma clearly affects him, and it shaped him into who he is today, but it doesn't justify his actions in the first half of the series.

[@AlbinoHammer]

I didn’t even know Charlie was supposed to be a goat, I thought she was just a typical demon. She looks NOTHING like a goat, they couldn’t even give her a little tail or goat legs?

[@ChibitaliaLoverEiri]

She's not a goat. She's supposed to be based on a marionette doll, iirc

[@darth_autismo]

I thought her nose was to resemble a puppy's nose to highlight her innocence or something.

[@seal8092]

This show… Is like a giant identity crisis. It doesn’t know what it wants to be or do. The first season is paced bad, and everyone says it’s the episode count, and I get that it’s a small season… However, even *if* they had let’s say 17 episodes, that would still not be big enough for the fat stacks of ideas and concepts they tried to ram into a first season. This show, is clearly Viv’s baby. She made it, grew up with it, loved to draw and make up stories so it was perfect. She loved it and then made it into a series… And honestly, I feel like behind the scenes… Nobody knows what’s gonna happen to the show, time line wise. Like, they got *no* idea what the resolution is to this show, which is kinda annoying considering the huge fact that this show has been rattling around in Viv’s head since 2015.

[@MasonMendes]

"Kenneth David" Yeaaaah this video ain't for me.

[@rutyqutykandi1361]

35:50 So, this issue about why is everyone in hell, is due to the fact that Vivziepop made a show that only her closest followers can truly understand. Or people like me who go out to seek the answers. I won't get into to much history about Viv's original story, Zoophobia, but a lot of the characters come from it or were inspired by it. The current understood canon about why Angel is in hell is that he was the son of a Mafioso and a coke addict. His spider appearance is due to the "web of lies" or something. Of course this being a made by Vivziepop work, we will likely never see the characters actually have to confront their actions on earth so you can also entirely through this out. If anymore lore or backstory of how this project ended up being such a mess is needed, I am happy to answer.

[@kyarabarrion4523]

Tell me everything or where to find it

[@raydarable]

I thought just from watching the show it was obvious why most were in Hell: Angel Dust due to drug abuse Husk due to alcoholism and gambling addiction Alastor due to being a cannibal voodoo artist Niffty for obvious reasons Charlie for being born there and Vaggie was the only one the plot needed to answer.

[@rutyqutykandi1361]

@@kyarabarrion4523 So a lot comes from old streams. KZbin is finicky around links but there are wiki's out there over Zoophobia, the Hazbin development process, and her controversies. You can also dig up some stream archives.If you need anything more or still need help on a piece, ask, I'll answer.

[@rutyqutykandi1361]

@@raydarable That's the problem. Vivziepop changes her mind on certain character aspects. Coke didn't exist in the 1940s, also Angel should also be in hell not just for drugs, but for the people he's killed. So, the focus being on his sex and drug addiction doesn't actually address what he did in life, the people he wronged, or how he actively refused to change. We only get the issue he developed in hell, and one half of what he did in life.

[@raydarable]

Those issues are implied to have existed when he was alive, only made worse in Hell. That's his punishment. And coke did exist in the 1940s.

[@raydarable]

I think the show's biggest problem is that the first three episodes (not counting the pilot) were the three weakest episodes. Episodes four onwards were great, but the first three episodes didn't do enough to introduce the characters/plot-lines/lore. Also, it felt like there were supposed to be more episodes before the season one finale, but it felt like we ended up with an abridged highlight package instead.

[@ohenthevoidwatcher3939]

damn. only after the leak situation did she finally get off of twitter. i wonder who she pissed off to cause the leaks in the first place

[@Faithless_goat]

31:15 Didn't husk fly in the Finale when he was puting light bulbs in a sign

[@MegaBond101]

Loved the vid! Highly wish Viv stayed w/ the concept ideas for both Hazbin Hotel and Helluva Boss. For HH redeeming sinners should have been top priority. Angels could have still been antagonists as they do not believe sinners can be redeemed. The way they were presented in the unreleased storyboards felt so much better than the final version! The angel of death pitied charlie and wished he could help but sadly the angels could not do anything to help her. It was never "Angels are EVIL" . that sudden tone change made me sick cause what normal person looks at the lore of angels and are like "ah yes they swear and love to kill things". If i could summarize HH it would be "Mean Spirited" with great songs(who's pacing gets ruined with random slurs thrown in) and lost potential 4:00 during the beginning of Hazbin I felt uncomfortable with Angel dust, the pilot version had personality other than just horny. This one was giving "seggzual harrasment is quirky" vibes 6:50 massive respect for using the breast chicken as an example (RIP the one that got a ridiculous amount of salt) 8:12 exactly what i've been sayingg 13:45 I agree. I thought Alastor looked goofy like that. Maybe if the lighting was darker w/flickering lights or if they stayed with the pilot design or SHOWN the voodoo symbols floating around him w/ some glitching could have helped 16:56 literally me when Episode 1 began! I LOVED the pilot and seeing the completely different tone and atmosphere made me cringe every second! I had to rewatch the pilot to wash the bad taste off myself and I felt upset over what they've done to the series. 21:46 I agree. I used to admire her but everything she's done lately is just mind boggling 27:18 every viv character design ever 27:29 got me questioning why they even gave him wings in the first place 27:58 his old designs did justice on the spider qualities and as time went on it was completey forgotten besides some of his bed sheets and room patterns having webs 28:12 poor animators 28:46 only knew she was a goat because some fanart improved her design making it have more goat qualities and the post said she was supposed to be a goat 29:10 EXACTLY! I think it was done on purpose however with Viv making the seven deadly sins being circus themed (luci being the ring master if I remember) 30:15 i prefered her pilot design. This one looks more akward with big hands imo 31:38 Viv designed Alastor in Middle School... 33:31 funnily enough a year before this show released I remember someone used that line as a joke and said "hey guys imagine if Lucifer said that" so im 99% convinced that line was stolen from a random user LOL 35:50 Angel was part of the Mafia. His old design was more straightforward with this . Would have never known some of that lore if it wasn't for the perceptive comments below vivs older vids 35:57 Pentious created weapons of war or smth. Crazy that for the one to get redeemed we never explored his backstory 36:07 THATS WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING!!! Would have helped if they hinted that the exterminators TARGET these sinners or prioritize in taking them out rather than just random civilians or less worse ones like Angel Dust. Instead viv choose to "make hell" for her people. Which she stated in a tweet. 36:30 SHE COULD HAVE USED PENTIOUS AS AN EXAMPLE AUGHH 36:52 That child was from cannibal town which means he ate others..my second guess would be that he's a hell born but sinners cannot reproduce and hellborn aren't targetted by Exterminators. (NOOOO the rest of the time stamps got deleted! Now I have to write it from the less incorrect time stamps) 41:05 Viv could never this write peak 45:02 Alastor is literally a ripoff of sans atp 46:43 missed this energy of his so much 47:14 something to point out is how it was funny not because it was trying so hard to be so BUT because Camila didn't act out of character to throw in a swear word here and there. She acted in character and as a result the viewer found it funny 49:52 they did Pentious so dirty! Shouldve let him fire that lazer and have adam survive 51:34 literally what ive been sayingg 53:33 I hate what Helluva Boss has become. Just a cringe sloppy mess. Imo should have stuck with the pilot concept rather than this. There was a young lady whom I disliked but was starting to warm up too. She was an awful "new" friend to my old friend and basically got my friend to act in a way she normally wouldn't. We were sort of getting along until she brought up this HB Short and saying how it was "so good" and how they were calling out the "toxic fanbase". I had to HOLD back my laughter because this girl in the short was LITERALLY A SELF INSERT OF VIVZIEPOP. She CREATED an episode to mock the people acting like this while SHE LITERALLY DOES THE SAME. Needless to same the lady and me did NOT become friends. 53:37 I wholeheartedly agree. This is EXACTLY how ive been feeling about the show. I have a friend who has been in a toxic relationship and what he described was not far off from how I felt about HH. It's a bad show and not something good to watch BUT you just can't stop coming to it. Maybe it's the art style, the music. The colors. Who knows. All I know is the more people come back to it the worse the quality will get

[@unripetheberrby6283]

so true 👏💚😔

[@lieutenantgremlin8787]

watching it when I was stoned was like amazing! but watching it again sober I'm like.... "what?"

[@Pancakes-n-Waffles168]

Conclusion: Hazbin was made by drunk people for drunk people

[@SodaFrizz666]

​@@Pancakes-n-Waffles168 stoned means weed. So correction: made by weed, and made for weed!

[@Pancakes-n-Waffles168]

@@SodaFrizz666 *le gasp* :o

[@lieutenantgremlin8787]

@@Pancakes-n-Waffles168 Omg your so right!

[@sarcophiliac]

Angel’s design makes me so pissed because he has SUCH good themes, being a spider, a mobster, and a drag queen. Those are awesome that’s such a cool combo. And then he looks like NOOONNEEE OF THEEEEMMMMM

[@theresivy]

your critics i mostly agree with aside, the reason theyre in hell is cus angel died from overdosing his namesake drug and is the son of a mobster family when he was human (same goes for his brother who made a cameo near the end of the season) as for pentious, in terms of the leaked voiced animations the best i can describe is it relates to him having multiple eyes as a demon as for the cannibal kid, the cannibals as a subspecies used to be hellborns in the pilot but was changed to sinners in the show, this is also why the cannibals are the only sinners that look the same since sinners are supposed to have a unique design

[@thetwotasksgirl1535]

Charlie is supposed to be a goat?? What???

[@Squiffed_not_Sozzled]

RED VS BLUE JUMPSCARE THANK YOU I LOVE YOU SO MUCH ITS A MASTERPIECE

[@6peony6]

im digging your style quirked up white boy

[@TheMikesShow1]

That's a good point on Adam's swearing. I agree that this show overswears but many people tend to view Adam as the prime example, but I saw him as the only one getting a pass in this regard since it's who he is.

[@an_0_mal1ce6]

40:53 I know I’m late to the party but I just want to add to this point. In my opinion, a good example of a very edgy antagonist that doesn’t completely break immersion would be Cyn from Murder Drones. I’ll refrain from spoiling too much but, throughout the series it’s made clear that Cyn, similar to Bill Cipher, is taken seriously by the world around her, but could not care less about that world. This is made clear by her very nonchalant and sometimes playful dialogue, spoken with a fittingly robotic voice. It’s not that she, or it, never reacts, but she is quick to recover. Her momentary reactions make her feel grounded while her quick turn around uphold a sense of apathy. I think what makes Cyn work the most, and come off as truly threatening is the depths to which she truly does not care. The audience is given a glimpse into how much she knows about some of the heroes, making it clear that she is fully aware of the emotions they feel. How does she react? By playing on those same emotions at every opportunity she gets. Diving into vague spoilers: This is also what makes her defeat all the more fitting. She cares so little about the heroes that she views them and their emotions as play things. Though she likely could’ve taken a far more convenient route, she chose the path that would mess with the protagonists the most. In other words, for as much as she doesn’t care about the heroes, she also enjoys playing with them, purposefully making a spectacle whenever she gets close to killing any of the main characters or someone close to them. She even says herself that she enjoys the way the characters surprise her sometimes, but she fails to consider just how surprising they can be. In the end, the world was right to take her seriously, and Cyn was wrong not to take them seriously enough. Anyways, just had to gush about my fav show rq, I’ve been on such a kick with it lately and I really do admire how they manage to make what could easily be a middle-schooler’s angsty wet dream still work as a genuine threat through both characterization and the context of the story. Hell, her final design (or final form if you will) is the epitome of edge, but it works because there is actual reasoning behind it, especially when you consider it from the perspective of her preferring the most manipulative route. That and it doesn’t include an unnecessary amount of detail.

[@calamaria9221]

I liked Charlie's pilot outfit, but man I still don't like her new clothing in the show proper. The shoulder pads and the bottom of her untucked undershirt poking out looks stupid. The undershirt poking out looks even more stupid when you find out that it's tucked in when she's not wearing the jacket. Also it's funny how you can also tell when a character cussing is supposed to be a "oh shit" moment for viewers, but it doesn't work since they cuss all the time anyway lol.

[@spinjitzumasterfalcon]

9:44 Perfect examples of good writing for comedic villains. Especially Lord Hater

[@crystalin_N]

I don’t know if he hates either Hasbin Hotel or RVB Zero more.

[@justsomeferalminor]

Here's hoping for a 'keeping the good fixing the bad' reboot in ten to thirty years from now

[@MegaBond101]

3:38 bro looks like a Team Magma grunt

[@iwantedtobethatanomaly2270]

im gonna cry

[@CloudsAndDays]

29:15 Not done with video yet, but I wanna interject that I’m pretty sure Charlie and Lucifer are both meant to have clown elements. Hell is supposed to have some circus theming going on, with Lucifer being the literal main ‘ring leader’ of the rings of hell. I agree that the goat themes could have gone harder though. Also for design shit, I think they could totally keep Alastor’s permanent smile, but when he’s freaking the fuck out, why not make his hair stand on end, make his ears pin back and then prick up as people approach. Make him move in jerkier, more alert motions. Use those animal characteristics the characters already have. That’s like the best part of giving them animal characteristics!

[@agentumbra2374]

9:18 I LOVE RED VS BLUE

[@Fluffycakez5]

Valid… BUT! The way you wasted that chicken breast hurts my low budget college student soul…. I could had turned that into chicken tenders…

[@Gazpachooo1]

@@Fluffycakez5 I only wasted one for the bit where I poured salt over one of them don't worry. I don't like wasting food so I tried to minimize that bit lol

[@bluevern904]

About the character designs, did you know there's not one, but two arthropod-themed characters in the main cast? If you guessed Vaggie, you're correct! And if you guessed MOTH, you're also correct!

[@Gazpachooo1]

Yeah sure she's a moth who cares anymore

[@xalamontdragmire5080]

Tbh huge props to you for giving it a shot! I will admit I am a big fan of the show but I understand it's not flawless and tbh, it taught me a lot on what to and what not to do with my own story I've been writing! Also nice to hear you like the music!!! Great video!!!

[@Raggiefoul582]

i feel like you perfectly explained my issue with alastor lol

[@idyllicomeraki]

I agree with many of your points as a vid. That said, as an artist, i would like to talk more on what makes a good character design. You're true on the point that a good character design should be able to give insight what the character is about, so making a countertuitive design is not. Personally, i disagree on that. A countertuitive design can be done right as a storytelling device, particularly one for plot twists. There's quite a few examples to pull from- Nui from Kill la Kill, and Pride from FMA. I would like to hear your thoughts on character design used as plot twist device

[@DragonitaPurple]

Agreed too, especially since most of the characters are meant to be in hell and are sinners or demons, making the protagonists look softer would kinda defeat the point of "any sinner should be allowed a chance to redemption". Simplifying their designs and giving them better differentiating traits would definitely improve them, but i don't agree that it should be at the cost of sanding down their edges.

[@ellasorrow4stolas445]

I will be honest. I don't like Vizzi, but I love this show. I'm begging please let someone else write the show.

[@nicksoutforharambe]

If it stopped trying to be a comedy first it would be good.

[@raydarable]

Is it even being a comedy first?

[@cCyberDragon]

​@@raydarableI'm not sure. I didn't really laugh until Alastor said "fuck" when fighting Adam

[@biggamer7001]

This show has so many chances to do something good and then passes on it.

[@longsock6160]

you should watch the pilot, while its not without its flaws it is much better then the actual show and its what made people originally like the world

[@chaosinrush4033]

46:00 alastor actually does show expressions. You just have to pay attention to his eyes and body language. Youre too focused on the smile, meaning his trick actually works on you. You cant see past the smile. Its like in Ouran Highschool Host Club, the twins pretend to be incestuous lovers to make girls swoon over them, but in reality they think girls who do that are losers. Yet the fandom in real life actually has people who ship them and find the idea of that hot. They're literally the target of their facade. Youre basically one of the twin shippers in regards to you never seeing Alastors hidden emotions.

[@RhysezPieces]

As someone who did enjoy the pilot for HH and didn't really like the first season: it just felt too fast paced for me, and the humor focused a lot more on the parts I didn't like from the pilots vs the parts I did. I do enjoy the songs tho, which were one of my favorite parts of the pilot, so I got what I wanted out of it :]

[@WeebGuru6]

Alastor shouldn’t be in the show as much if u want someone like him to work u gotta use him in short burst

[@simple-commentator-not-rea7345]

Characters did seemingly NOTHING to deserve to go to Hell, but since they're there, they get to have the moral high ground against Angels that are in-your-face evil and hypocrytical, also Heaven is super corrupt and no better, but still when the main characters are redeemed they should still get all the benefits of Heaven that are yet to be shown. I didn't realize how entitled the writing is until I reflected on this first season. I'd hate to imagine I'm biased because I had a bit of a Christian upbringing. And it wasn't even strict or anything, I haven't been to church in AGES

[@vinbin-h6t]

You should watch the pilot it is honestly much better than the show I think you would like it over this and specifically pilot Alistair I think you might enjoy more

[@cappella264]

Urm actually Alastor is constantly smiling because……..uh, I think there is a reason but I forgot and don’t entirely care BUT that could’ve been made cool IF they used his voice and eyes and ears and stuff, HE HAS WAYS TO EXPRESS HIS TRUE EMOTIONS ON CERTAIN SITUATIONS BUT THEY JUST STAY THE SAME AND IT SUCKS…………So yeah uhm……..WHEN ARE YOU MAKING A HELLUVA BOSS VI-

[@maplemothgirl]

I used to adore Viv and her work, I followed her projects since 2016 and it makes me so sad that she basically became money hungry.

[@cakefrosting6451]

Basically Mammon

[@gummykyunno.2010]

Fun fact the reason Bill Cipher has a silly voice is because it’s inspired by David Lynch, and there are a handful of scenes that are inspired by his works like Twin Peaks.

[@2Tune2]

Show for the adult band kids

[@Q33Rwitch]

Hazbin Hotel's plot follows two different things: 1. can a soul sent to hell be redeemed, and 2. a story about corrupt angels vs demons. Hazbin Hotel has eight twenty-minute episodes. In this time I think it is feasable to write a compelling character-driven story about the redeemabilty of souls, or to write a compelling plot-driven story about hell vs heaven. You cannot do both. Sure, if they had a greater amount of time they could be able to do a good job at both of these concepts in one show, but again. Hazbin Hotel has under three hours of time.

[@MewGamer-bj9in]

I think they should have had more episodes since 8 is so little

[@Austin-zc9gp]

Yeah and unfortunately that’s all on Amazon.

[@MewGamer-bj9in]

@@Austin-zc9gp yeah I completely agree Amazon didn’t do it justice

[@Birdyboys]

@@Austin-zc9gpactually if the rumors are true (and I could be wrong) it could have been Viv’s fault. The show could have had 10-12 episodes but it was cut down to 8 due to the expensive voice cast. I can’t imagine Katie killjoy was originally going to be voiced by Brandon rogers, feels like a last minute decision

[@MewGamer-bj9in]

@@Birdyboyswait whaaaaaaa???

[@PrometheusRewound]

32:57 the thing though that drives me bonkers about episode 5 is that it reveals how passive Charlie is as a protagonist. She has spent the past 4 episodes doing nothing but complain about her plan. This is the first time any progress has been shown towards her goal. Why didn’t this dad plan come up immediately???? And Alastor being a father figure comes out of literal nowhere as he’s been doing literally nothing for episodes. Like when they reveal how close to the deadline the were it was baffling. Like nothing has happened!!!! Like this episode is honestly good but comes out of nowhere and reveals how inept all previous episodes were at forwarding the plot.

[@PrometheusRewound]

And episode six just makes this point clearer. Like in the courtroom when asked what she has done to prove this she literally has NOTHING because she’s done NOTHING. Like Angel Dust isn’t a bad person also. Him as an example is barely relevant.

[@Fang24-wu2cp]

Some of the designs actually do make sense. Granted, if you have outside information, but they do make sense. As an example, why is Alistair so skinny? Because he's based on the windago. A cannibalistic deer spirit. Why is husk so colorful and all over the place because he's an addictive gambler that ran casinos, known as the gambling overlord. Charlie doesn't tend to look like a goat because she covers up most of the features and hides them Trying to look more human because she wants to look less threatening to sinners. Angel, I still haven't figured out. He's just kind of a furry version of his normal human self with extra arms. Definitely something that would have helped out a lot there is letting him keep that big fuzzy tail thing he had during his song.

[@DrawciaGleam02]

Angel's a spider because he and his family had a "web" of crime.

[@SodaFrizz666]

Yeeaaaah, I'm pretty sure vivzie needs a refresher course when it comes to character design Lol

[@Fang24-wu2cp]

@@DrawciaGleam02 i'll give you that but he is still not very spider. I just thought he was a 4 arm furry until poison when he had that big poofy tail attachment then i saw the spider idea.

[@HanleyBrook-pz9iw]

All of this doesn't work in arguement because that's outside information. If it's shit that's important to the character, it should come across clearly. If people can't grasp something based on the design immediately, you have failed character design. Also her basing a character off of a creature you're not even meant to say the name of in the culture it comes from is vile, especially when that creature... Isn't even actually a deer. They're not deers.

[@Fang24-wu2cp]

@@HanleyBrook-pz9iw Did you read my post? Qoute "Granted, if you have outside information, but they do make sense." the second line. That is me agreeing it's not in the show and it should be while also filling in the gaps the show didn't with info I found. Oh ya that voodoo argument again. Sure it's bad. So is he. Yes you can't say it. But you know what it is? An evil creature with an endless hunger for human flesh they stalks and tortures it's prey before eating them. Oh hey Al when did you get here. Weird it's almost like he is being punished by having to live with the fact he is one of the most evil tortured creatures in the belief for doing the things that would turn you into one.

[@funkey6737]

47:12 audibly laughed, cheers man Good video breakdown.

[@ultimaterizzlord]

i wish tuco had a villain song ngl that'd be peak

[@idontdrawstuff]

GOOOOOODDDD banging my head against the wall because Vox is my absolute favorite character BUT he was honestly just a waste of space in Season 1, along with the other Vees (except for Valentino, specifically cuz of Angel Dust) Vivzie should have just introduced Vox in season 2!!! 😭

[@BlBl-wm6hb]

I definitely agree with what you say but I feel like every character is very sophisticated in the way they act no one changes the story in any significant way except Charlie and Adam

[@loganrosas2226]

One of the biggest problems I have with the show is that everything dosent make sense. The whole shows premise is based on redeeming souls but nobody believes that's possible except Charlie. Why? No actually why? Why is it possible? But most importantly why dose charlie actually think it's possible? None of it makes sense.

[@erinbathie-moore8478]

My favourite character in this whole bloody show is Rosie... All the other characters? I prefer their Pilot versions (both design and character wise). Love the OG premise, but the show tried to start running, and immeditaly fell, before stumbling the rest of the way through. (This is why I stick with fanfics on ao3, ironically the writting is better)

[@LazarusZeptre]

I wont spoil anything but you may come to loathe her in the next season!

[@Flugel_Halogen]

The kid Vaggie spared is actually a cannibal form cannibal town (they are one of the many hellborn species in hell)

[@Gazpachooo1]

@@Flugel_Halogen oh I just figured the people in cannibal town were cannibals when they were alive would have been great if they explained that in the show huh?

[@Oreo-kv4gc]

Yep Kid a cannibal killer There kid that killed another kid in real life reality...

[@soundtrapgaming1009]

I think if it was longer instead of 8 episodes that are barely 20 minutes it would have been a lot better. The episodes aren’t even 40 minutes to an hour like most modern shows, instead it is horribly rushed. Maybe another ten episodes, so we can truly see how powerful yet detailed Alastor is, seeing Angel Dust develop and actually have Vox do something. Then Helluva boss refuses to change its characters so even when it has a good episode it is ruined by the fact they are the exact same the following episode. I have watched both Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel hoping it “gets good” when I know it won’t beyond what it does. Especially since I do like the ideas behind both shows. I doubt Hazbin hotel will get better because it won’t be given more episodes, and again Vivzie can not right to save her life.

[@fionna_cool_girl]

The only way I'd like Angel Dust is in season 2 they made him less sexual. He opens up to Husk about why he's always so hypersexual to the point of making everyone uncomfortable. It's a huge character flaw he has, not that having flawed characters is wrong, but a character needs character development. If in season 2 he doesn't dial it back and actually respect Husk's boundaries, then there's not a lot to like about this character just because he's "aww sad boi who's being abused in the sex industry". There should be more to him

[@doveodes]

i havent seen your content but i REALLY enjoyed this video- hope to see more!

[@tadtacosinc]

46:13 nobody tell him that autumn exists

[@Gazpachooo1]

I should have said dark gray but you get my point

[@tadtacosinc]

@@Gazpachooo1 I know, but I still thought it was funny

[@elbuhogrunon8957]

one argument I was personally thinking, what if the big plot twist was that heaven always was about beliefs, most of the people (that end up being pretty good) ended up there because the standards of a sin are practically minimum: It would be wonderfull if the point of repentance was breaking the black or white morality of christianity

[@kacperkarbowiak6947]

this is a amazing review great job man !