Darth Vader VS Kylo Ren | Who Would Win?

In this video, we go over Star Wars Anakin Skywalker AKA Darth Vader (Prime/Using Episode 6 Lore) VS Ben Solo AKA Kylo Ren and see who would win! Who's stronger? Who's more skilled? Is this topic even worth discussing? Is Darth Vader weaker than he was before his suit? Why did Kylo Ren lose to Rey in Episode 7?
(Includes lore from current Disney Canon, and uses information only available from 2014 onward, including the mainline movies, clone wars, and what is officially deemed as current canon, including the 2015, 17, and 2020 Vader comics, Star Wars Age of Resistance: Villains Kylo Ren section, the current Star Wars guidebooks such as Ultimate its lore, interviews etc)
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[@SethTheProgrammer]

*breathing* Also I meant to say WEAKER than Maul level threat at the beginning, wasn't trying to call Darth Maul weak. That'll be a mistake worth a couple thousand dislikes for sure.. Lol. Vader's current suit is designed by HIM, not Sidious. I showed him constructing it on screen and Vader actually gets angry when Sidious even tries to imply he'll construct it himself in the new canon. There is no Sidious nerfing him argument after Kirak and it doesn't make sense since in the new canon Sidious wants Vader to surpass him and live up to his endless potential, not suppress him. In fact, Sidious is upset that Vader was held back by his injuries and grief if anything he tries to empower him. Different narratives. Yes Vader still has endless potential and the potential to surpass Sidious this is stated in new canon as well.

[@Random1nesss]

*Farting*

[@ey992]

DADDY!!!!!!!!!!!

[@playboycartisson2080]

Same

[@ManishPLAYS]

Whens the avatar vid coming?

[@Random1nesss]

@@coconut412 Pissing

[@miguelneno5627]

Long answer: Anakin Skywalker Short answer: Vader

[@Nemoidz]

You mean Long awnser: darth vader

[@miguelneno5627]

Yes exactly, Anakin Skywalker.

[@motchiman5423]

@@miguelneno5627 Lmao so true!!

[@lennyjenkins9931]

@@miguelneno5627 Late comment but 2 different personas

[@Null82085]

Longer answer, the chosen one

[@Ro321chile]

Short answer: Vader Long answer: Vader

[@oastyboi]

*Long answer: vader stomps kylo

[@pumpkinpai5503]

the long answer should be “The chosen one”

[@rshadowyt5555]

Long answer darth vader

[@znobbz__2874]

Long answer: Darth Vader

[@scprwbysportal7202]

Long answer: darth vader Short answer: vader

[@sodagirl1092]

The person with the biggest Jedi kill count of his era Vs His emo grandson.

[@kakashihatake6052]

Vader once again holds back because he loves his kylo

[@DARTHSKATER7]

LOLOLOL EXACTLY

[@kakashihatake6052]

@Dragon with Internet connection He also didnt meet luke much but still sparred him and sacrificed himself for luke, He wont be able to kill kylo

[@PhoenixAce]

@@kakashihatake6052 the difference is that Luke was his son who was good while Ben is his grandson who’s evil Vader will kill someone he sees as himself: a failure

[@nothingspecial705]

@@PhoenixAce Imagine this : Kylo is dueling vader who is just toying with him , not even taking him as a real threat .Vader finally stops playing with his food and cuts kylo arm off, then he lifts him up in the air with the force. As kylo struggles to set himself free he realises that he never even stood a chance he finally asks" Why? All I wanted is to big like you ! Vader looks at him and for the first time in a long time he starts laughing , he would cry if he could , then he stops . For a moment Kylo felt as if the world stopped the only sound that could be heard is vader breathing . Vader finally says looking him straight at him, enraged and he would say" Only a fool would want to be me like me" Then finally he snaps his neck , being disgusted that someone would want a life like his

[@cooperrichards2434]

Kylo when mad: throws a fit and destroys important stuff Darth Vader when mad: threatens and kills unimportant people and is actually kinda scary

[@GabesEdtiz]

Wdym kinda? He *is* scary.

[@ICr4zyI]

@@GabesEdtiznah, just kinda

[@Therealnonsequitur]

Important stuff like his dad

[@siddharthujwala9212]

"Can kylo ren defeat Darth vader" Well no but actually no

[@kingofallgodzillas9901]

Lol

[@camulodunon]

@@kingofallgodzillas9901 out of all things that a human is capable of saying, out of all ways of expression and means of communication that mankind has come up with, all you have is "lol". Shameful.

[@Depressed_until_dead]

@@camulodunon deal with it

[@camulodunon]

@@Depressed_until_dead Not-fun fact: I copied a reply I saw months ago.

[@anti1training]

Vader was the most skilled lightsaber duelist in the Temple.

[@nocturnalgamer8285]

Kylo hasn't faced anyone is saber combat as well... vader hunted down and killed jedi

[@zechariahscott9536]

All of them and fought a ancient sith that cut of most his limbs

[@Ivbo]

We know a whole lot about Vader since the character has been around for 40+ years though...Kylo is still rather new and we don’t know all his feats as of yet...but they are hinted at in canon a lot, the entire galaxy knew him as *“The Jedi Killer”* and it’s not public information that Kylo is Ben Solo or anyone from Luke’s temple so that title didn’t come from the destruction of the temple it came later, which suggests that he has also been hunting and killing Jedi throughout the galaxy, there’s a whole 6 years of time that Kylo was on the dark side prior to TFA that we know next to nothing about...we don’t know how many Jedi or force users fell to his hand in that time period but we do know there’s no sign of them in the sequels past Luke and Rey, that suggests Kylo’s probably killed a whole bunch of Jedi himself... The canon comics show him taking down a damn Zillo Beast singlehandedly and bringing a whole planet to heel, they refer to him as the best duelist in the entire Jedi Temple, undefeated...they show him handling three Jedi his age at the same time while they’re trying to kill him and he’s just defending himself not trying to hurt them, still he slaps them around like they’re nothing and even accidentally killing one through reflex...they show him killing the former master of the Knights Of Ren in single combat while supposedly force lightning is literally pulsing from his body...his eyes go Sith yellow when bleeding his crystal and he pours so much power into it that it cracks, he did this in one go...even Vader couldn’t bleed his crystal straight away. People really tend to downplay Kylo big time but there is a legit case to be made that the Kylo Ren from TROS could take Vader in a fight...and that case is just going to grow stronger and stronger as time goes on and we inevitably see more of Kylo in comics and other series’...I mean some people refuse to even acknowledge that Kylo is a top tier force user...they won’t even give him that...even though he’s had more training and experience by the events of TROS than Anakin had by the events of ROTS, (Anakin in ROTS is 23, Kylo by TROS is 30 and both started training at around the same age) I mean it’s just sad really...you say anything good about that character, mention any of his feats, even suggest he could defeat anyone from the past two trilogies and you get hopped on by a mob of screeching “fans”.

[@zechariahscott9536]

@@Ivbo I still don’t think kylo can take Vader but maybe a older kylo would be able to because he lacks the power to turn his rage or anger to power while Vader can that’s the vary point of the dark side that’s the reason maul didn’t die while being cut and half and why Vader lives through most of the worst injuries and Vader is way better then kylo at dueling even using the force to lift and move his body while dueling or fighting and him being a adaptive duelist like paptine and having more experience because him having dueling sessions with sideous,mace windu,yoda,and obi wan.he is also way more durable and smarter then him as well in the force.I find it kinda bs that kylo would beat Luke because he has a higher midicolian count and is better at dueling, but I believe mando Luke or movie Luke would beat him. One thing Seth got wrong is that Vader did kill the zillo beast the same way kylo did while only having one stormtrooper left and Vader/anakin also has a higher midocoloian count then him and because his prosthetics he also is more stronger then him but a adult kylo maybe able to take him in a fight and Vader could of easily livied and survived the force lightning but he chose not too and we seen him where his suit was fucked and he used the force on his injuries and his whole body.

[@zechariahscott9536]

@@Ivbo even at all ankins battle more exactly dooku vs anakin he was able to use the dark side when he fought even a past anakin would win against him

[@pedroj3432]

@@Ivbo and yet he gets beaten up by a random person with no training who lived in the desert her whole life. The problem with the sequels and their lore is... none of it makes sense.

[@schizoreze]

Kylo: *Uses Force Mind Tricks* Vader: "Genjutsu of that level doesn't work on me"

[@Rapscalian]

Then vaders breaks his arm and says "Jamada"

[@aliveandwellinisrael2507]

Kurenai vs itachi all over again

[@Galm02]

😭

[@Cyborg_Lenin]

Kylo rips the Vaders mask off. Vader: hey you weren't supposed to . . Chokes

[@lebruhjames9007]

@@Cyborg_Lenin Vader negates it with his force

[@CinnamonFudge2229]

even while heavily injured and conflicted, it's hard to believe Kylo would lose to people who have never touched a lightsaber in their lives. while Vader hunts down Jedi every second he breathes

[@1065chris]

They’re still well versed in melee combat. It’s not like they never used a melee weapon before. Rey grew up on a post apocalyptic planet with a staff and Finn had training with the baton that FN-2199 had.

[@CinnamonFudge2229]

​@@1065chris a lightsaber would be way different tho. the blade is practically weightless, so it would be far different from a baton or a staff, top-heavy weapons. Even if that doesn't affect too much, it still would create a difference in skill between someone who's trained heavily and someone who has never used such a weapon before

[@Elephantsaresupreme]

@@1065chris wasn't finn a fuckin janitor??

[@1065chris]

@@Elephantsaresupreme Wasn't Kylo shot with a bowcaster?

[@Elephantsaresupreme]

@@1065chris OK good point. I actually wasn't being against anything. I just fuckin hate the fact that finn isn't allowed to be a morally grey character because instead of being a storm trooper who had to slaughter hundreds, he's just a frickin janitor that was promoted

[@indianwarlord6935]

Fought Ventress, Savage Oppress, Dooku countless times (and killed him), apprentice to Sidious, the chosen one, could hold down the Mortis Gods, killed countless Jedi in the temple and afterwards, held back the ocean, insane force powers, mastered all 7 forms Vs Couldn't beat Rey

[@neonwaffle3327]

And killed you

[@dreamwar1586]

He did beat Rey though.

[@tryhardgaming2862]

@@dreamwar1586 barely by the hairs on his chiny chin chin.

[@dreamwar1586]

@@tryhardgaming2862 He did it effortlessly lol

[@sometransgal9412]

@@dreamwar1586 Kyle got beaten by her when she hasn't even used a lightsaber before. Kylo stands no chance against vader who is able to kill jedi masters in his weakened state.

[@zetten4109]

You called me a madman, 5 years ago I was banned from Seth's discord server because I asked for a Star wars video. Today, I finally celebrate my victory.

[@deadx0092]

You deserve it ma men lets drink some wine and remember it for ever

[@brother2865]

Gg

[@allblek4699]

Thats kinda sad tho, getting banned and being called a madman gg to you

[@TheYungDyrude]

It shows that Seth became the very thing that he swore to destroy

[@billycarter155]

Not the hero we deserved but the hero we needed!

[@Remix-pr4xd]

Kylo: I do not fear you. Darth Vader: Then you will die braver then most.

[@fatboisplitzomja5741]

Badass anakin right there

[@christopherwashington663]

"You do not fear me because you do not know me. Soon, you will die, and you will know me. Then your fear will be complete.' .... 'you little punk-ass"

[@AndrewAce.]

"Perhaps I was wrong..."

[@markyboi2449]

Rebels reference

[@dylanaguirre3425]

They made Vader perfect in rebels man doesn't care at all what you think he'll kill anyways

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

kylo ren is a character who is poorly handled in the film series, he could have been written much better.

[@chanceofbliss8175]

Isnt that almost every character in the trilogy lol

[@TearsOfThem]

@@chanceofbliss8175 in the prequels and sequels. The comics make Anakin a good character not the movies

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

@@chanceofbliss8175 Original characters where good, Yoda and Obi wan where fine the prequels and so was qui gon jin. Anakin is much better in other material. Kylo ren was poorly handled and was always a joke it seemed. I can believe he is more powerful than Vader or even Maul.

[@chanceofbliss8175]

My point was really just talking about the episodes 7,8,9. Nobody in that trilogy was well handled. Even the prequels did a better job of portraying characters except for anakin. And even then I like him more than all the MCs in the eps 7-9

[@RomanHistoryFan476AD]

@@chanceofbliss8175 yeah i understand, Anakin's character needed better direction and script i think the actor was good when given the chance to properly act.

[@kerobady5968]

Jedi slayer that can crush a ship with the force VS An emo with a glowstick

[@K.Pershing]

Also an other thing vader freed an alien race from a montain size monster named The Ender with almost no scratch

[@somehistorynerd]

Kylo would still lose. If Vader went all out, Vader would crush his skull as easily as crushing a very soft cookie.

[@zwabwaguette234]

@@gurbaz7764 it is canon. He beat the ender aka a giant monster that wiped out an entire civilization with ease. He even killed it and just went on with his merry day.

[@hunterhale9000]

So Vader doesn’t have a glow stick?

[@kerobady5968]

@@hunterhale9000 nah he has a proper lightsaber Kylo has a glow stick

[@Roe777]

The only way Kylo wins is if Vader feels conflicted about stomping his grandson.

[@vrj8791]

The only way Kylo wins is if Vader is an action figure... Unless Kylo injures himself in the process.

[@olah547]

Vader: I'M A GRANDPA?!!! THIS IS WONDERFUL I MUST TELL EVERYONE I'M A GRANDFATHER STORMTROOPERS!

[@blueguygaming1330]

@@olah547 hell yeah a HISHE reference

[@sauceboss4788]

Facts

[@deleted868]

@@vrj8791 *HEY BEN,I TURNED MYSELF INTO AN ACTION FIGURE-*

[@uchihamadara5844]

I feel like while the comics TRIED to establish Kylo Ren as a serious threat, what we actually SEE tells us he cant hold a candle to Vader.

[@tempest8342]

"Notice the wording of UNTAMED. This could mean anything from masterless to straight up- ARBY'S." Perfect ad placement.

[@b.o.a.9861]

I got a offset voting commercial

[@tempest8342]

@@b.o.a.9861 dam 😞

[@kaptainkibiroproductions45]

I got a law firm ad

[@brobi_jaun_kenobi]

Kylo Ren isn't canon. He's just part of a very expensive fan fiction.

[@linus2506]

A very bad one

[@miridor123]

Good fan fiction, glad id wasnt Cannon 😅 maybe we Will never get the sequels.. if thats so.. Then This is the Way

[@anakinvader9120]

Agreed

[@shaggy5052]

Ya pretty good for fan fiction but glad not canon

[@augiehicks4588]

Lmao agreed

[@serendipitouscomet]

How can Kylo Ren have potential greater than the person that was literally birthed by the force?

[@dylannichols3577]

@Patient Devil but Kylo wasn’t born from just the force though...

[@dylannichols3577]

Oh ok

[@tasonjodd5151]

He doesn't. But he does. You see if Vader was still Flesh and Blood, his potential would be limitless. Abaloth, the Infinite Emperor, Lord Vititate, sidious, Luke... He would be untouchable. But the suit limited him. Due to it being electronic, and his hands being robotic, using force lighting or powers similar to it is (in some sources) called impossible, and in other sources is called Self Sabotage. Kylo didn't have these limits. If this was Vader BEFORE the suit, then Kylo wouldn't have more potential. But since he has it, it's a big limit.

[@serendipitouscomet]

​@@tasonjodd5151 New canon has nerfed how much Vader's suit limits his potential. A lot of the writers now are saying he's currently stronger than Sidious. In legends, your argument might hold a little more weight. But at the same time, Vader was trained by the best and grew in times of war. On top of that, the sheer fact that Kylo is the offspring, of the offspring, diluted by the blood of a non-force sensitive, of the person who was birthed by the force - he should have way less of a connection to the force than... the person who was actually birthed by the force. It's simple logic, really. And it might seem like we're angry. But we have right to be. It's so disrespectful for a writer to be given the privilege to contribute to such a legendary series. Only to disrespect its mythology and established characters by making a character stronger and more special than the person who is supposed to be the strongest and most special.

[@serendipitouscomet]

@Patient Devil No, but Vader was trained more often and by better force sensitives (especially considering he was trained by soy Disney Luke) and experienced far more combat, even in his short time with an able body. Kylo in comparison did way less and shouldn't be stronger by any means.

[@iphunniblackman4114]

In canon and in legends, vader outclasses and outdoes Kylo’s feats even during his lowest points. He’s a master duelist with decades of combat experience against jedi and dark side users alike, his armor (despite having some weaknesses) grants him protection from injuries that would either cripple or outright kill Kylo, his force abilities are very potent in their control, precision and magnitude compared to Kylo. With that all being said, there’s a strong chance that the fight doesn’t even progress beyond lightsaber dueling because Vaders massive edge in that area may very well finish off Kylo outright. A djem so strike, an ataru flourish or a Makashi stab, the end result is all the same: Kylo Ren dead and the battle being over.

[@THEWolfBlade3622]

also, (at least in legends[not sure about canon]) Vader's suit literally lets him chill in lava

[@WarriorofSunlight]

Now THIS guy knows his Star Wars.

[@Lethal_Swordsman]

@@WarriorofSunlight no he doesnt

[@ethanweimer-kopf6907]

Kylo is much more powerful in the force than vader was. Vader's suit and cybernetics hindered his force ability greatly (he was missing 4 limbs and all of the midichlorians that would be in those limbs). We see that kylo has immense power in the force, being able to freeze people and blaster bolts, use psychometry, and interrogate people in his mind like Legilimancy in Harry Potter. However, I would say that vader is the much better duelist. That being said, I think focused Kylo, being able to use both the light and dark side of the force like his potential states, would be able to defeat vader.

[@davidschneiter9729]

@@ethanweimer-kopf6907 Vader is missing 4 limbs dude...don't try to do a statement if you don't even know the most basic facts

[@zero082294]

Regardless of what people think on who would win this battle, a fully realized potential anakin skywalker is the most powerful being in the Star Wars universe that is unquestioned. Sad that we never got to see it.

[@DaKillaCroc859]

What about Darth Revan and Star Killer? Please don’t yell at me I’m just wondering lol

[@HiHello-wb9yq]

@@DaKillaCroc859 Star Killer at his peak(Which he also never reached) could definitely handle Vader and most likely even Sidious. But at most Galen at his peak would be like half the power of a fully realized potential Anakin.

[@anidiot192]

I refuse to believe litteral Force Jesus doesn't have the potential to solo the entire universe extended and all.

[@dentman5679]

Luke is a god in legends and I believe anakin would have been on the same level if he still had all of physical body but idk if he could handle some of the sith like darth bane darth nihilus and exar kun

[@TetsuRiken]

@@DaKillaCroc859 they are both very powerful but someone else pointed out how powerful vader is if he wasn't in that suit he would stomp Starkiller and Reven but I think at least Starkiller is his equal in combat but not the force

[@SDesWriter]

"You will not stop me! Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!" Sideous to Yoda.....The reason he never killed Palpatine wasn't due to his strength, it was due to Vader's fears and doubts.

[@jonathonmyles172]

YEA IF VADER WANTED TO KILL PALPTINE ALL PALPTINE NEEDS TO SAY IS I KILLED PADME VADER WOULD FUCKIN RIP PALPTINE INTO PEICE'S LITERALY TEAR HIS BODY APART BLOOD EVERYWHERE ARMS ON THE FLOOR EYEBALLS SMASHED INTO WALLS ETC

[@randomkid8007]

Nah Palp would trash him pretty hard

[@tachimesan6133]

Palpatine tampered with Vader's armour to prevent him from reaching his full potential. They could've made a better armour for Vader but purposefully chose not to, this is why Vader became slower after he wore the armour. This in turn forced him to develop a new form of light sabre combat so that it can compensate with his now heavier yet stronger body.

[@marra2887]

And force lighting palpatine best force power is Vader’s weakness; cuz paplatine tampered Vader’s suit.

[@ponglenis9273]

@@randomkid8007 may I remind you that without this stupid million dollar fanfic from disney, vader DID kill palpatine??

[@gasstationsushi1999]

“It’s skin is too thick, I need to kill it from the inside” “Skin is the same thickness from the inside”

[@cygnusx1858]

Isnt the point of getting inside is to destroy its insides to kill it?

[@gasstationsushi1999]

@@cygnusx1858 it’s a guardians of the galaxy reference

[@cygnusx1858]

@@gasstationsushi1999 yeah dude i know, im just saying...

[@blockytheblockgod4567]

@@cygnusx1858 it’s alright dude.....I wish you could’ve gotten your question answered

[@105saphira]

@@cygnusx1858 Yes but he shouldn't be able to cut his way out

[@darthcarnage12]

One moment I always think of is when Vader first meets Luke in the comics. He uses the force to yank the lightsaber out of Luke’s hand, mocks him, and is about to one-shot him before noticing it’s Anakin’s lightsaber (than Han attacks him with an ATAT which he goes on to destroy). I know Kylo’s hurt, but having so much trouble against untrained people using a lightsaber for the first and second time is just embarrassing for someone supposedly as powerful as him.

[@aliveandwellinisrael2507]

Yeah, it's pretty pathetic lol. He obviously had a good amount of training with Luke (more than Luke first got anyway lol) and Snoke supposedly taught him too, so he shouldn't have had anywhere near as much trouble with either Finn or Rey in their first fights. He just can't make full use of the dark side since he's still pulled by the light. Opposite of Anakin. So fighting Vader, who is essentially fully in the dark, he wouldn't even be able to use his own full power against Vader, let alone beat him.

[@dallasweasley2521]

@@aliveandwellinisrael2507 *Edit I made this comment before watching the video* I'm not one to defend the sequel trilogy, far from it but one thing that always gets me when people hate on Kylo for taking that L against Finn and Rey was he was shot by chewies bowcaster which earlier in the film sent two or three (don't remember exact number) first order storm troopers flying back, and Kylo literally got hit in a pretty vital spot on the body, so I can see his loss at the end of the force awakens reasonable, anything after that though is just Disney being lame

[@1KQ_]

You can attempt to make the argument "oh kylo just went through a lot the 6 hours prior, cut him some slack" but then you can remember Anakin fought his former master and was out muscling him after days of no sleep taking out other jedi earlier.

[@twilightparanormalresearch186]

Vader would have fucked up rey and I would have laughed

[@corymccarty8603]

Sorry... But even if he had been shot by a bow caster there is NO WAY that DARTH VADER would have EVER have allowed himself to get his ass kicked by a girl who had only just been told that The Force exists and had never used a lightsaber before. Just.... No way.

[@stelhart6139]

Feels as if Kylo is intentionally beefed up or “OP” just to scale to Vader which obviously proves that Vader was stronger and makes the comparison harder.

[@stelhart6139]

@Laith Rajha the knights of ren don’t compare to the countless times Vader while in his robo suit meaning he is slower compared to his natural body fought multiple Jedi knights at once, just saying but nice reply!

[@anthonykwesiokyere1019]

@Laith Rajha I know that the Star Wars material is pretty convoluted but the general consensus is that because of the heavy suit he wore he was not as agile or fast as his original body which is why he adopted a different lightsaber style which allowed for more power behind his blows to make up for the lack of speed

[@anthonykwesiokyere1019]

@Laith Rajha And what is the base speed he is basing that statement off of exactly and If that we’re true why did Vader change his lightsaber style for no reason I just want too know I don’t read the comics like that

[@thedarkrider987]

@Laith Rajha are you going off of 2014 and up comics or the older stuff?

[@zzzdee1980]

@Laith Rajha What? Palpatine in the comics intentionally made Vader weaker than he used to. Pre-Vader Anakin was the best lightsaber duelists during the clone wars with exception of Yoda and Mace Windu. He mastered both Form IV: Ataru and Form V: Djem - So/Shien. Both fighting style required the practitioner to have incredible speed and physical strength. After Anakin became Darth Vader, he can't use form IV anymore because the armour prevents him from doing any acrobatic movements, so he created a variant of Form V which is originally was based on defending with solid blocks and parries, then immediately countering with strong counterattacks and ripostes. With Vader's new variant, he focused more on sheer power rather than quick counter attacks. His fighting style became more direct than before due to his cybernetics.

[@chris5159]

Kylo got stomped by an untrained Rey, what do you think a prime Vader would do to him? I know you touched on this in the video, but being nerfed by the force due to conflicting thoughts in his mind just makes Kylo weak in the force

[@Vader255]

kylo was nerfed against rey, he was also physically nerfed by the bow cawster

[@znahejebe4063]

@@Vader255 which a true sith would have deflected.

[@Vader255]

@@znahejebe4063 well he was shocked after killing his father and he just stood their wondering if what he did Really happened so he was caught off guard

[@kobizarre2003]

@@znahejebe4063 Kylo isn't a sith lord

[@equatiks97]

@@Vader255 vader was constantly in pain like literally 24/7

[@ImGeekinn]

I love how you say kylo isnt a “darth maul level threat” but maul would also wipe the floor with kylo💀

[@liambrasier6590]

I would argue that. Maul would get bullied by kylo. Not only is he the grandson of the strongest force entity ever born(which if even a fraction of that beings potential fell to kylo would be more than enough to murder maul), but he was also trained by the strongest grandmaster the jedi ever knew, and snoke(the guy with more force knowledge than even sidious, who trained maul). The only thing you really got against kylo is that he lost to rey, but even sidious lost to her, and I'd be willing to bet money that she'd beat vader(who we all know for a fact would erase maul). It's kinda what happens when a mary sue fights literally anyone. They just win If we judge purely off training, kylo has an undoubtable edge over maul. Like I'm convinced kylo could beat maul with an electrical stick(like vader did to that one jedi master).

[@sovietcheeselord9102]

@@liambrasier6590 your arguement is a glorified “his grandpappys stronger so he wins”

[@qqqrss2683]

@@liambrasier6590 Does this guy know who mauls mom is.

[@suffering-everyday]

@@liambrasier6590 mother talzin was powerful. that was maul's mom. by your argument, maul and ben are equals and that my friend makes no sense because legends existed and some of that is canon

[@toren2099]

@Shamiul Pervez I hate Star Wars fans there more worst then Batman fans

[@justsomejerseydevilwithint4606]

From even a training standpoint, Anakin got official training from an actual jedi master On coruscant, then direct training from the strongest sith in the series, whereas Kylo only got passed-on notes from a jedi informally trained and indirect orders from a sith in hiding. Vader's moves are methodical and polished, whereas Kylo swings about his lightsaber in wild, flailing swings. Given their shown power and lineages, I'd say they're about medi-chlorian Equal; I'd say Vader Wins.

[@generalkaiproductions8680]

Sidious very very rarely taught and trained vader but vader would still stomp kylo.

[@KARL00300]

Kyle got stomped by...ahem “A girl who had never even held a lightsaber” Meanwhile Vader butchered millions while being a cripple

[@Kenzie1-l1n]

Tbf he got shot by Chewbacca's bow caster and was really conflicted about why he killed his father (or something) and as he said confliction is a HUGE nerf

[@KARL00300]

@@Kenzie1-l1n Dark side users become stronger from pain That’s why palpatine made Vader’s suit painful to wear It’s also why kylo was beating his wound throughout the fight

[@coolcoll1262]

@@KARL00300 kylo ren is more of a dark jedi than a sith

[@pablo1006pr]

@@Kenzie1-l1n i mean vader never had legs or arms, were unconfortable, painful, badly design, he didnt have lungs and they guy had a serious depression

[@The-X-Territory]

Rey is a Mary Sue, she would’ve have won against anyone. Scaling doesn’t matter in that bitches case.

[@Jedword]

The entire sequels is about how kylo can never be as powerful as vader

[@thevaden2024]

Lmao true. And about how powerful “Women” are like Rey

[@bruggger6287]

@@thevaden2024 kylo is stronger tho

[@mopnem]

@@bruggger6287 Literally non of these matters in the least..all it would take in the past is lucas to come up with another bad idea & nowadays, disney with star wars has nothing but bad ideas movie wise..

[@bruggger6287]

@@mopnem mando was a good show tho, and bad batch was decent

[@mopnem]

@@bruggger6287 Agree, which is why I def said movie wise. I might give rogue one a pass tho

[@TheAntiTrope]

One was beaten by a little girl with 0 training. The other annihilated an entire Jedi Order...

[@jonathonmyles172]

i think you mean an entire galactic republic

[@DeathMetalThrasher]

lol A former stormtrooper was able to land a hit on him

[@powerjolt7215]

@@DeathMetalThrasher 💀💀💀

[@ShamanMcLamie]

I don't think that's fair. Rey is a Mary Sue after all.

[@TheAntiTrope]

@@ShamanMcLamie the time has come for us to rename Mary as Rey

[@ambiguumspectatoremespecta9803]

In terms of raw force power: Darth Vader would win (He has superior command of the Darkside). In terms of lightsaber skill: Darth Vader would win hands down (From what I can observe Kylo Ren lightsaber style is similar to that of 5th Brother's and 6th Brother's)

[@brianmoore4240]

Darth Vader lived a life of war. Training under some of the best Jedi’s of all time. (mace, yoda, Obi, many more) rose up through the ranks in the middle of the clone wars regularly fighting sith, dark side users, and army’s of droids. Cheated death countless times against dooku, one of the best duelist of all time, eventually cutting his head off with his own light saber. The chosen one.. The one who was supposed to bring balance to the force and then slaughtered hundreds of Jedi’s right after embracing the dark side. There are too many feats to type out that happened after his transformation. Darth vader is a battle hardened VET who was half machine and fought like he wanted to die. Ren... a battle virgin. Luke, Ren, Ray, these people didn’t know what true war was, they never saw it the way darth vader did. Even if Luke came right out and directly said he thought Ren was more powerful it wouldn’t matter, from viewers of the whole timeline we know more. Ren has his cool force abilities that we’ve never seen but it doesn’t mean he’s more powerful in the force itself. Duel? Ren would get gutted in a matter of seconds. Force? Vader would break his neck with a force choke before ren even activated his mid-evil lightsaber.

[@jocab4409]

That was a long reply

[@HoHhoch]

Luke absolutely understands war. There are many years between A New Hope and Return of the Jedi, and Luke did a LOT of fighting during that time.

[@brianmoore4240]

@@HoHhoch very true, I’ve done a lot of lore studying since I made this , but I still do believe it wasn’t on the level of darth vader counting his clone wars experience as well.

[@cybertrofia]

​@@brianmoore4240 I mean, Luke was 19 in C4 and Anakin 9 in C1, the former started his "warrior path" at a much later age then his father, just that makes a huge difference between them...

[@accywacky2699]

@@HoHhoch the conflict of rebellion vs empire is rather different from the republic vs trade federation galactic war, both in duration sheer scale.

[@sschuster2180]

the fact that people would even consider asking this question offends me ...

[@JayPlusForerunner]

Every masterpiece (Vader) has its cheap copy (kylo)

[@ChainRG]

I was gonna comment the same thing, like why are we even asking the question? Kylo is just weak and Vader easily destroy him.

[@mr.n0noob228]

Exactly

[@Kurama_02]

@@ChainRG Kylo wanted to be Vader so bad but he is really just a softie cosplaying as a Sith

[@ChainRG]

@@Kurama_02 fr

[@slantingmage0asg295]

Keep in mind; Vader in his prime took on the entire jedi academy with a couple of clones Kylo in his prime could not even kill a scavenger who had little less than a week days of training

[@Theleaver5088]

Agree

[@pablo1006pr]

actually no training

[@glato978]

Yeah. I hate how Disney handled his charecter. He was trained by both sidious through snoke, and luke. Making him pretty powerful, but because strong female charecter he loses.

[@ChromaticEagle]

Isn’t Rey supernaturally gifted, combined with Kylo’s doubts.

[@Goblin_Hands]

Yeah, it was like 10 hours of no training whatsoever. A little less than a week?? Rey got the saber like halfway through 7 where she was imprisoned by Kylo, then escapes, then wins against Kylo who barely fought off a stormtrooper. Her training amounts to tripping homeless, telling Han how to fly his own ship, and of course out-interogating the supposedly powerful Kylo Ren, who's only feat in the franchise is freezing a bullet, unless you count losing, he's pretty good at that. The bullet scene adds too much inconsistency to Kylo and should be cut, he couldn't even repeat it again like when he was shot at by the bowgun. He fought worse than Rey in the Throne Room, and again against Sideous. He's just bad.

[@Evokai6419]

"Captain Phasma is stated to be able to outlast Boba Fett." How though? I'm genuinely confused on that to this day.

[@cadenixon9741]

women have more stamina than men? /j

[@mrBluesky1986]

Boba fett: im the most skilled powerful feared bounty hunter in the entire galaxy. Disney: she's a women.

[@skylersimpson4692]

It’s just Disney feminist retcon bs. boba fett would destroy phasma and Finn at the same time

[@mrBluesky1986]

@@skylersimpson4692 heck yeah man

[@freetoplayking7362]

He's older and is smart enough to not use too much energy

[@microwave4928]

Anakin literally made the embodiments of the force get on their knees Kylo killed people while they were defenceless Easily Vader

[@anakinskinwalker1724]

And stopped an OCEAN flowing.. in his SUIT!! And his suit feeds his rage, rage makes him stronger.. Vader

[@theantianimeassociation7574]

well....to be fair Vader also killed the defenseless

[@generalyido]

@@theantianimeassociation7574 but he also killed powerful individuals. Kylo Ren has the jedi kill count of 2 or 3 (which were not even knights or masters but rather padawans) and he even struggled against the emperor's guards. Anakin literally made the embodiments of the force kneel before him and has killed several Jedi masters and a crapload of padawans and younglings. Also he literally yeeted Palpatine while being electrocuted.

[@demosxn6722]

Kylo would try that trick on Vader and Vader wold just crush his organs in response

[@abdes6234]

@@demosxn6722 bruh, I'm not even a fanatic about dtarwasrs but I do know enough about Vader and kylo Ren to say that Vader easily shockes this one home.

[@ivancerecer5758]

Regardless of power, Vader would win because he is patient... He learned self-control from his defeat in Mustafar, something Kylo does not have...despite losing multiple times

[@dreadwolf2684]

Thank you

[@hokagedlo6133]

He lost 3 limbs in that fight id hope anyone would learn from that and not make the same mistake twice

[@ASmartNameForMe]

He seemed pretty calm in episode 9 Well maybe not calm but tired, anyway he wasn't as angry and quick to slice and dice in 9

[@mysteriousstranger9182]

Took the words right out of my mouth

[@danoobsta6890]

@@ASmartNameForMe he's never fought obi wan tho......

[@spectralknightgaming8364]

Answer: Vader Why: Because Vader is literally the chosen one any sequel trilogy character would be humillatiated in a duel with him

[@bruggger6287]

why: because you like him more

[@Alex.Hustad]

@@bruggger6287 he is stronger tho, if you disagree you’re dumb

[@IsNotAngelic_TTV]

ANY sequel character..? So like... dooku? A-and obi-wan??

[@bruggger6287]

@@Alex.Hustad there is an arguement for kylo being stronger, but ye vader prolly wins.

[@zachary8249]

@@IsNotAngelic_TTV well he killed both of them too.

[@geekymetalhead5112]

Kyle Ren: Grandfather, I'm going to beat you! Vader: *goes from breathing to hard laughing*

[@trevoryeo559]

When Vader laughs you know you’re going to die

[@commandercheese7408]

Now I'm hard laughing 🤣😂

[@cosmic_calamity1760]

Them he starts making those wheezing noises

[@commandercheese7408]

@@dyshtrack745 lmaoooo

[@Grameris]

💀💀💀

[@simpleclonetrooper2740]

No way Phasma could beat Boba Fett.

[@cocolahoff4292]

Fr tho, Boba would stomp her. Maybe if she triples the price he’ll let her live

[@legendaryplayz394]

@@cocolahoff4292 best comment ive ever heard just got back into battlefront

[@alexdeghost2729]

If it's stated, it's fact. She can take him on regardless if you like her or not.

[@simpleclonetrooper2740]

@@alexdeghost2729 The way i see it she ain't proved herself enough like Boba has that's almost like saying Finn could beat Fett which we know he can't.

[@MajorWrestlingSyndicate]

@@simpleclonetrooper2740 she could take boba unfortunately she is literally a tank

[@drummstickydd93]

As far as potential ill always go with the guy who was LITERALLY conceived from the force

[@yokenshi4869]

But kylo ren is anakin’s grandson so that means he is also conceived with the force

[@drummstickydd93]

@@yokenshi4869 with 2 parents?

[@dread3165]

@@yokenshi4869 no not the same anakin was literally born from the force as generations go kylo is just human with a great connection to the force since anakin->leia->kylo no where near raw force potential as vader/anakin

[@RubenMakaya]

@@yokenshi4869 no

[@Somesom33]

@@dread3165 agreed, very different.

[@TheImperialSoviet]

Anakin at his full potential had the power to one-hand not one, but TWO omniversal Force Gods who can literally manipulate the fabric of the Force itself, and made them both kneel. Even someone like Vitiate and Nihilus, Sith Lords who can devour entire galaxies' worth of life force without breaking a sweat can't defeat the goddamn Chosen One, even Anakin as an older teen could decimate Kylo.

[@imskar3441]

If Vader didn’t lose to obi he’d be sooooo strong like god tier strong.

[@jonathonmyles172]

he is stronger than og anakin vader has unlimited potential

[@carsoncrandall1146]

His suit hurt him giving him more money age when fighting, Vader is stronger with the suit

[@imperialknight4176]

He would decemate anyone in his path

[@Drewitall54]

Anakin in TCW brought 2 literal gods to their knees (the son and the daughter). He basically was a god

[@hopelesswolfkin5353]

Only if he disciplined himself as thoroughly as he did post amputation; the biggest reasons Vader was so terrifying are in tandom the necessary refinement of his force powers into near surgical level precision as opposed to his near barbaric bludgeoning through combatants because he didn't have to train to be strong in the force pre mustafar; alongside his constant agony from his ever present injuries and intentionally sadistic suit bringing him great power in the dark side through pain. Had Anakin (or early Vader if you will) won against Obi Wan it would be a much longer process for him to become so skilled as opposed to gifted in the force.

[@zacharycooper3106]

Kylo Ren killed a big lizard. Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader got the literal embodiments of the force to bow before him, combated numerus Sith and Jedi alike, both in the temple during order 66, and hunting down surviving Jedi of the order after pretty much spearheading the downfall of the Jedi order as a whole along with the Republic. Also, Darth Vader literally tore down the barrier between the living and the dead, and killed a planet sized creature by himself. On top of that, he showed the galaxy what "fear" truly felt like, annihilating entire divisions of troops single handedly on many occasions, killing a number of other considerably dangerous creatures, etc. Vader can also keep himself alive for a time using the force alone, as seen in various instances when his suit is badly damaged. And again there was the point made that the suit itself was a rather nice buff to Vader's abilities. So now imagine all of this on rage mode with a burning desire to kill his opponent no matter what. Kylo, your free trial of life has ended, please contact Jesus if you would like to renew your account with a subscription, or just accept that Darth Vader would stomp you the same way Australians stomp pesky spiders. Darth Vader would win.

[@rafaelcastor2089]

Vader killed the younglings with no issue, Kylo lost to an overgrown one. Enough said

[@aiddan5077]

I mean anakin was literally born from the force so imma go with him

[@kingleoxvii2463]

The way Kylo Ren uses his lightsaber, you would think it's his 1st time using one. He swings it like a club.

[@tron1007r]

Is this a joke. Kylo isn't even really a character and he was a terrible duelist.

[@liambrasier6590]

Can I ask what you're basing the "terrible duelist" comment on? If it's his fights with rey, I really feel like a loss to a mary sue shouldn't be counted on your record. Cause he did solo all the knights of ren at once, which were supposedly each better than phasma who could take on boba fett(another legendary jedi hunter). Granted we don't get to see him fight anyone else for real(not counting that bullshit they did to Luke).

[@cruximperator]

@@liambrasier6590 Lol darth maul would stare at him and kylo would lose his shit and run he is the justin bieber of the star wars shitty fan fiction they now call canon.

[@ItsMeStrider]

@@liambrasier6590 you're answering your own question. His feats are heavily reliant on assumptions about his enemies power, never actually fought a jedi master in his life, has trouble defeating one stormtrooper and one amateur force user with a lightsaber even though his hate and sadness over killing his dad should have buffed him in the dark side. He soloed guys who "should" be around boba fett level, with no real way to compare them to each other, and all his other feats are either offscreen or don't say much about how strong he is in the force.

[@darkwolf4434]

@@cruximperator Maul litterarely had a hard time even defeating jedi Padawans.

[@justinedwards8006]

@@darkwolf4434 let's not just gloss over him killing a top 3 jedi master in the universe at the time...while at the same time fighting their apprentice who was a jedi knight at the time (or of that level). Also, struggling against padawans is a serious misuse of the term, he would curb stomp entire groups of Jedi padawans along with their master, with very few instances of struggling to a point of concern. Sidious almost took maul in as an apprentice instead of Dooku and would've if not for obi Wan

[@wross5961]

Darth Vadar took full power of electric storm in a metal suit from Senator palaptine and still threw him off the edge--Darth Vadar

[@arturius9715]

Vader would wreck him without even igniting his saber

[@flashyk2430]

He won't beat dathh maul without his force abilities

[@carito2939]

@@flashyk2430 vader would beat maul with and without lightsaber

[@flashyk2430]

@@carito2939 theirs a comic where, Vader had to beat maul using the force dumb a** GOOFY!!!!

[@flashyk2430]

@@melmao6531 yeah, and I said he couldn't heat him, if Vader only used a lights saber

[@LightAndDarkMdness02]

He does to Kylo what he did to Cal and Cere.

[@LiterallySpikeSpiegel]

I love how Seth literally explains why Kylo shouldn’t be underestimated or downplayed at the beginning of the video, yet the entire comment section is just people downplaying him. Gotta love the Star Wars fanbase.

[@projekt2745]

People believe that Kylo sucks, which he does. Seth's explanation of why he shouldn't be underestimated sucks as well.

[@Nerazmus]

Saying Vader would demolish Kylo is not underestimating Kylo. It's what would happen.

[@LiterallySpikeSpiegel]

@@projekt2745 And that’s YOUR opinion, dude. I personally have a mindset of “everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it differs from my own.” I’m not gonna be a douche about it if someone likes something I don’t. And I like Kylo Ren. Ooh, fuck me for liking an unpopular fictional character.

[@LiterallySpikeSpiegel]

@@Nerazmus No shit. I’m talking underestimating Kylo’s power in general.

[@projekt2745]

@@LiterallySpikeSpiegel Mate, I like Kylo as well, at least his design and potential. But he sucks. His character development, his motives, and his overarching story all suck. They made him a crybaby and expected us to still like him. People underestimate him because he lost to a girl that hadn't even wielded a lightsaber while trying to become more powerful by using the pain from a bowcaster to increase his rage. He is a buffoon, an impersonator for someone he will never be able to live up to.

[@KevDurantula35]

Holy crap... SETH’S SCALING STAR WARS NOW?!?! It’s LIT!!!🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@shaunadams297]

"I find your lack of faith disturbing" Vs: "Mom says it's my turn on the Xbox"

[@chironthecuddley6144]

I still haven't seen the sequel trilogy, but even I know that Darth Vader would have no issue with curb stomping Kylo Ren. Darth Vader was able to hunt down most of the remaining Jedi even while being held back after having all of his limbs cut off and becoming mechanical and his suit causing him a lot of discomfort on his stubs.

[@demosxn6722]

You saved yourself some brain damage then, Vader would murder Kylo within 3 seconds no contest

[@darthbane5357]

Silence anime pfp

[@XenophonQ]

None of that is cannon anymore, he goes over that in the vid.

[@DeadnotAlive]

@@XenophonQ yeah the Vader fanboys will say anything to make him look better in every way. I like both but I honestly do know Vader would win, Kylo would put up a good fight though.

[@jeffbezos3501]

@@DeadnotAlive I honestly don’t think Kylo would even put a good fight against Vader. Let’s be realistic. Anakin has WAY more experience than Kylo.

[@savelgravel9993]

well if kylo got stomped by a scavenger and almost by a stormtrooper obviously he get stomped by the dark lord of the sith... Vader (dang thx for all the likes guys)

[@blueblade6174]

Not really fair to point out to his heavily nerfed state.

[@metalreignz6557]

@@blueblade6174 his prime would be dogwalked

[@blueblade6174]

@@metalreignz6557 not sure what that even is supposed to mean

[@metalreignz6557]

@@blueblade6174 kylo in his prime loses to weakend vader

[@flashyk2430]

@@metalreignz6557 no

[@drharrybhardwaj893]

Darth vader: I wear a mask to survive Kylo ren: I wear a mask to look “cool”

[@maggogieraffe3296]

Don't act like it isn't cool.

[@skeptic_lemon]

@@maggogieraffe3296 It isn't cool. If you're gonna wear a mask to make yourself look cool then choose a less flat design. Kylo Ren's mask isn't horrible but Vader's is way better. So is Malgus'.

[@anxietyplague]

@@skeptic_lemon I prefer Kylo's, Star Killer's, Darth Raven's a shit ton more then Vader's. I 100% dislike Darth Malgus's GTA v re-breather.

[@skeptic_lemon]

@@anxietyplague I agree though that Revan's mask is really cool

[@anxietyplague]

@@skeptic_lemon just like I said in a halo video it doesn't matter the beauty about how different every damn thing is. Is that everyone can find something within that universe that they like and get involved with the community toxic bs.

[@retrox2776]

Imagine a darth vader with patience, with all his limbs if he killed Obiwan. That would be a big bruh moment through the galaxy

[@retrox2776]

@Excelsior he did in a game too

[@retrox2776]

@Excelsior I loved anakin so much that I loved that ending

[@LightskinKingSimp]

@@retrox2776 which game? I’m curious bc I like the idea of full potential anakin

[@retrox2776]

@@LightskinKingSimp Star wars Revenge Of The Sith game (2005)

[@knightwhosaysno4392]

@@retrox2776 That game was my entire childhood. It did lightsaber duel multiplayer action so well

[@godslayerfiles687]

You can call it “casuals” if that makes you feel like this is a close fight. Vader wins this 10/10. Lazy, weak writing aside losing to an ex storm trooper and a noob Jedi after all his impressive background makes it even more embarrassing. Never heard anyone use the “he was upset” argument in one of these before lol.

[@porkypile]

Yeah, you need to read the novels written afterwards where they try to patch up the plot-holes in their crap movies.

[@pipeborrero]

Vader, like Anakin (EP 3), was always good with beasts and taming them. He understood them as he saw himself in them. So maybe he took the approach of controlling and taming the beast, which I think is a win for Vader as taming a beast is way more difficult than simply butchering it.

[@gamingdragonofmordor3770]

Is this battle even a question? The winner of this battle is obvious... "Messa be a killin you both now!!!!"

[@and8091]

Watto is the obvious winner.

[@superiorcustomer2.037]

Darth jar jar will beat both of them at the same time in one second

[@gamingdragonofmordor3770]

@@and8091 nah, on second thought, Dex would clap both of them

[@anidiot192]

@@gamingdragonofmordor3770 nah, Gonk droid solos all of them.

[@superiorcustomer2.037]

Darth jarjar kills them then dies to Dex which dies to cloners they die to gonk droid

[@meticulousCheese]

Let's forget about raw power which *might* **theoretically** ***perhaps*** reach Vader (but never the full potential of a literal pile of midichlorians). Experience in battle is a big deal. It allows for a fight like Obi Wan vs Anakin to happen when Anakin has much more force potential, immense talent, and an incredible amount of combat experience from the clone wars. Forget the fact that Anakin lost himself the battle by jumping his limbs into Obi Wan's lightsaber, if raw power was truly the deciding factor in all conflicts it should have been more one sided than it was. And then he just kept fighting until there was nothing left to oppose him. If Kylo is skilled enough to bring his potentially scaling power to bear against Vader as an equal in combat, this isn't a universe I'm interested in knowing the canon of. Completely disregarding the years of struggle and conflict Vader endured to reach his status is not cool.

[@jerod5636]

Dude talked so long I never noticed when he said who would win.

[@miguelsacramento4416]

I actually paused the video and just read the comments.

[@jonathonmyles172]

it sounded like kylo wins but thats BULLSHIT SAID BY A FANS OPINION VADER EASILY SURPASSES KYLO

[@keylimetrpt]

The biggest case for Vader is what he embodies. He is walking death, he may batter himself against his challengers, but he calmly destroys all. Kylo is always conflicted, unsure, chasing a shadow he needs to overcome. Vader is that shadow.

[@librajedi3347]

I like your content. I also think Kylo was one of the better parts of the new trilogy. But bro, it should not take almost 30 mins to explain that Vader would crush him. Keep pushing us good content Seth and may the force be with you

[@alexlovcoffee]

Vader can (canonically) hold up/push 136 million kilograms worth of water using the force. Kylo Ren would never be able to do even a quarter of that, Vader had 10x the knowledge and battle experience as kylo as well, Vader would beat kylo whether it was Ep 7 or 9 the cold truth still is and always will be Kylo Ren loses to Darth Vader. If you don't believe me about the amount of water vader held up someone did the math, look it up. Have a good day Vader and Kylo fans, love you all

[@derekmundy]

Kylo ren - Give up, you're surrounded Vader- All I am surrounded by is fear...and a dead man

[@VexedVergil]

I feel Vader would easily win, his force powers were Insane let alone his saber combat skills. Yet kylo loses to a jedi with 0 training so I think that makes it clear as day

[@njtoday5713]

Not just once but three times

[@liambrasier6590]

Ok, but that's an unfair argument. Rey is literally a mary sue. She physically cannot lose. Like how she had most of her powers stolen by sidious, and then proceeded to still beat him. For lack of a better example, it's like saying god goku should lose to krillin because he lost to arale. It's not a good argument Vader would still win, sure(mostly due to force ability). But it's not nearly as one sided as you think. I would even venture to say if you give kylo another 10 years to train he could actually catch up to vader. 15 and I'm certain he could surpass him. Remember, even with the most conservative estimates, vader still has 20+ years of training over kylo. And if he's able to get stronger over time being dead like yoda did, honestly ghost anakin murders kylo.

[@internetman-]

Rey's not even a "actual" jedi.

[@sheadoherty7434]

@@njtoday5713 he lost once. The second duel was cut short and the final he beat her without breaking a sweat, he was only stabbed after being distracted by Leia.

[@jonathonmyles172]

yea vader lost 1 lightsaber duel in his entire life he wouldnt even need to use the force to beat kylo

[@bluefiremarkii]

I read luke saying that the strength he remembered was thr last time he felt it was kylo, not the only time, meaning if kylo wasn't around he would say the last time he felt it was Vader or palpatine. Kylo is just the most recent he felt. So i feel that argument is really invalid

[@moshehhubbard756]

Plus Luke never felt Vader outraged, he only felt his suppressed power and Vader never wanted to kill him

[@hawkgaming6663]

@@moshehhubbard756 never felt him as the narrator put it, enraged with a bloodlust with no confliction

[@bsutter04]

Vader would win without even having to pull out his lightsaber lol

[@ianalexavier5972]

Haven't watched the video yet but you can't tell me that Kylo has even the slightest chance to beat Vader!! Was one of not only the best pilot, but dualist in the galaxy, killing numerous Jedi who where ranked Masters, and Counsel Members. This Beast of a man, who you get scared shitless to hear his breathing, against a moody teenager that throws tantrums

[@Professional_Dirtbag_Hippie]

To be honest Kylo and Rey have basically no feats. They never fight a character outside of each other, and Palpatine's power in TROS is super unclear. Also Legends cannon is far superior in terms of scaling

[@sagelg]

Also it’s very clear that with Kylo & Rey they’re “super powerful” because the script demands it. Like it’s ,for the most part, one off powers or feats while Vader consistently had incredible feats.

[@shisuisalty3.034]

Kylo fights multiple other characters. Read his comic, it gives him some good feats.

[@XraynPR]

Rey would probably win against anyone else in Star Wars. Because ... well, I don't know why. She is just the best ever for some reason.

[@beanieman3461]

@@XraynPR unfortunately legends Grand Master Luke exists

[@kameronwinchester9593]

@@XraynPR kylo destroyed her in the 3rd movie and held back in the first.

[@Jangowo]

Kylo: loses a saber fight against someone who’s never used one before “Yeah Kylo has a chance”

[@paulscod]

can you do a versus with Starkiller? He's so insanely strong

[@lapplandkun9273]

he doesn't do legends continuity. If you want that, go to jensaarai1 or evannova

[@ningen6995]

@@lapplandkun9273 thx

[@nathanchristman6660]

@@lapplandkun9273 he didn't do star wars in general until this vid.. U have no clue wether he'd do a vs with legends characters

[@Michaelmyers-te3xj]

Yeah he should do starkiller

[@lapplandkun9273]

@@nathanchristman6660 In his description, he explicitly stated he analyzed vader from canon sources. Like how does that prove he knows shit about legends?

[@majik6ix]

Darth Vader: *Can basically destroy a whole empire single handedly* Kylo Ren: *Simp* Edit: bruhh

[@jonathonmyles172]

VADER ELIMATED AN ENTIRE GALACTIC REPUBLIC NOT A PLANET AMRY AN ENTIRE FUCKIN GALAXY SIZED ARMY

[@majik6ix]

Chill

[@theaveragecrusader9590]

@@jonathonmyles172 he’s saying he could destroy the empire if he wanted to, which is true.

[@No_complaints.__]

Uh didn't vader turn to the dark side for his girl??

[@grayski3324]

@@No_complaints.__ Yeah, he didn't want his pregnant wife to die in his arms just like his mom. He was also manipulated by Palpatine for years and was finally pushed over by his false promises. This would've all been avoided if my Boi Qui-gon survived the battle with Maul.

[@mat_s8]

I think Vader or better saying Anakin has more potential than Kylo, since the father in Clone wars said that only the chosen one could handle his sons, meaning the light and the dark side. Unfortunately we never saw Anakin's full potential, but he certainly would've become the most powerful living being, even stronger then sidious, since he's the only one to control the sons of the father (in my opinion)

[@GiaDante18]

When it says Vader is stronger it’s referring to his dark side connection. His base connection to the force is still much stronger as anakin although over time he learned to adapt to his weaknesses and surpass his old self. However his potential would have been far greater had he not lost his limbs and flesh

[@JCTaylor0000]

THANK YOU! FINALLY SOMEBODY GETS IT 🙄 seth qui-gon jin stated that the force flows through living things, so when anakin got his limbs chopped off his potential with the force dropped. Sidious also stated in episode 3 that anakin would become powerful than both him and yoda, that was before he got cucked. If you read the new vader comics, in one of the issues when vader was meditating and he invisioned himself. The way he was drawn showed a bunch of swirly dark side power flowing throught his body except the limbs that were chopped off. This shows that the force does not flow through vader as much as it did anakin, proving that anakin at the very least had more potential and would have gotten way more powerful than vader ever did 💯

[@rogeliorangel8748]

He said in the video he was going off the new canon for this fight such as materials and statements made after 2014 so stuff like how his potential to the force is weakened due to his body such as lost limbs wouldn't be valid for this video at least.

[@JCTaylor0000]

@@rogeliorangel8748 it still is valid because of the comic’s illustration of the dark side flowing in vader. All the parts of him that were metal were white and the all the parts of him that were flesh flowed with dark power, showing that the force does not flow throughout all of his body, therefore reducing his force power from his maximum potential

[@_Kurumi_Tokisaki_]

@@rogeliorangel8748 That doesn't make sense. Anakin had the potential to overthrow Sidious before he lost his limbs. If that's no longer the case in the new material, why did Vader never grow powerful enough to overthrow Sidious? It's obvious that the novel met his connection to the DARK side of the force strengthened but his overall connection was weakened after Mustafar.

[@kakashihatake6052]

@@JCTaylor0000 The father in clone wars wanted anakin to take his place, father also confirmed anakin is chosen one and That he would be as strong as him at his peak

[@mr.laststand5566]

Not even close vader is just a different breed of Sith.Vader is stronger than what he was as anakin because of his rage and pain the suit pushed him far deeper into the dark side than most sith could reach.Not to mention he clapped a whole hell of a lot of jedi single handedly in some situations.

[@crytonroberts3925]

His connection to the force was actually lessened because he didn't have as many limbs

[@floridafan561]

@@crytonroberts3925 In MY opinion, OT Vader is more powerful than Anakin. However, not as powerful as he would have been had he not lost his limbs.

[@crytonroberts3925]

@@floridafan561 but its not a thing to have an opinion on. Factually, Darth Vader is weaker than anakin

[@mr.laststand5566]

@@crytonroberts3925 idk man darth vader built different

[@floridafan561]

@@crytonroberts3925 Source? Sounds like your opinion... A new hope Vader beats revenge of sith Anakin. PERIOD

[@goldenpro1096]

Bro this is such a good video great job

[@evenaarek1042]

I mean, Anakin was literally created from the force. He subdued the embodiments of the light and the dark side of the force at the same time using only the force. Had he lived up to his full potential, it wouldn't even be a question. So, he gets nerfed by defeat at Obi-Wan's hands. Different set of skills. Still arguably the best Jedi slayer of all time.

[@fredjones2170]

Last I checked Kyle Ron can’t drag his underlings back from death as a phantomlike being; Vader did that with the Grand Inquisitor

[@RanMaru144]

Kylo would still clap

[@xram6673]

*get clapped

[@SonGageN]

I mean, Maul wasn't that weak if you think about it. He took down a Jedi Master and a talented Padawan that was Knight level by the time the fight happened, and only lost because of arrogance

[@christopherfleetwood5252]

True Maul was an excellent physical sith, but Kylo Ren had all sorts of Force powers that Maul had no knowledge of, Maul didn't even have force lightning (and no excuse like Vader).

[@Spartan3D213]

@@christopherfleetwood5252 I think he did have lightning but preferred to fight as a warrior.

[@christopherfleetwood5252]

@@Spartan3D213 In the books it was a plot point that Maul was being used as a Sith Assassin by Sidious and his master, the only reason Plaguious tolerated Sidious having an apprentice was because he wasn’t teaching him anything other than physical augmentation.

[@UnholyWrath3277]

How is that even a debate? The literal chosen one who is a master of the force and all light saber fighting forms. or a angry child throwing tantrums?

[@messengermal5298]

Love how u covered why Vader is actually more OP in canon than in legends because he does not have the limitations he had. Most people tend to think that he still has those limits.

[@Relekism]

The only issue I have is that in the episode 3 novel, After finally being put back together after his fight with obi-wan he gets up off the table attempting to kill Palpatine with the force and all he could do was crush the machines. It is directly stated in the book by Vader that he felt far weaker

[@jakewheeler6014]

@@Relekism That novel is not canon anymore none of the novels for episodes 1 to 6 are canon.

[@DanieleMulas-up7np]

Except.....He STILL has limtations. He still can't summon lightning, he still can't do flamboyant bladework and acrobatics, he still can't run or fight without his mask, and he STILL had a remote control that turned off his cybernetics. He's not more OP at all, you Disney drone dingbat. He's simply written out of the struggles EU Vader had to deal with, and he's put against weak opponents. God, you Disney fanboys are hilarious.

[@Hot_Grill43]

Unpopular opinion but i actually liked kylo ren. He is my favorite character to come out of the sequel era. But vader/anakin is still better.

[@Samuel-vw4yv]

This isn’t even a question, we all know who would win

[@jonathonmyles172]

VADER DUMB QUESTION SETH

[@someone-zb8we]

Dababy obviously

[@xavierhines4315]

After seeing what Vader can do in Fallen order, this ain’t even a contest

[@YhwachTheAlmighty]

Read legends comics and books. Or just even read Canon Vader comics which surprisingly, Vader is more powerful in. Vader literally takes on and kills the ender monster who is capable of destroying cities with ease.

[@natrix0]

Excuse “darth maul level threat” wtf is that supposed to mean? Better put some respect on big Mauls name 😡

[@dillonanthis4046]

No Maul slander here😤

[@a1phamalestud]

Maul would run laps around kylo

[@OK-yy6qz]

Maul Is Definitely a Beat however i feel the Tiering Goes kylo

[@OK-yy6qz]

@Angad Menon if you're referring to the Darth Maul Comic Run He Never Directly fought Dooku instead Dooku was Captured by a small army of Mandalorians

[@OK-yy6qz]

Now that i think about this I could probably Extent this down to even Grievous The Reasoning is Simple for Me His Fight against the Manga Guards shows us Kylo can Struggle Against non Force users if they Attack him fast Enough and he doesn't get a Chance to use the Force Grievous was Specifically a Master at Doing this and He Killed hundreds of Jedi that way So Kylo

[@mattmania3053]

I don't even have to look at the analysis to see who would win. It's Darth Vader by a huge landslide.

[@Crackmiser]

That entire comic were Kylo kills the zilo beast was just made to try to make him look better then vader. In another comic that came out earlier vader killed a different creature of similar size to the zilo beast called the ENDER the same way Kylo killed the zilo beast. Bad writing to try to make there garbage character look better. Because they couldn’t think of any other way of improving there characters then making them look better then the OG characters right? Look it up

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

Even if you were to assume Kylo did better, that feat is still pointless as it can't be applied to dueling. Vader has beaten several council tier level opponents (Kirak In'fila, Lord Momin, Ahsoka, Eeth Koth, Obi-Wan Kenobi) and has better showings with using the force against force wielding opponents.

[@jackdubs25]

@@jeremyleonjonas7657 Obi wan let him win...

[@demont7550]

@@jackdubs25 If the fight progressed I think it would’ve been a Pyrrhic victory on the side of Vader. He’d kill Obi-wan but it would cost him an arm or a leg.

[@jeremyleonjonas7657]

@@jackdubs25 doesn't chabge the fact that Vader would've won, hadthe fight continued

[@2gunzup07]

Yea but obi wan won when it mattered and crippled him. And vader could never beat Palpatine or ray, or yoda. Anakin got crippled and was well below mace windu in the force. Vader is overrated just kool looking

[@braydendoss7883]

vader who clap if it was full potential vs. full potential kylo

[@javierlopez9789]

One of The most Powerfull sith vs the guy who lost against a scavanger.

[@deadshot5007]

Did you watch the video?

[@javierlopez9789]

@@deadshot5007 yes, my point stil stands, Kylo couldn't even beat a scavanger, and had trouble With 1 red guard and all his feats from The comics are not really impressive compared to what vader has done, this Jacen solo wannabe wouldn't last 2 minutes against vader

[@deadshot5007]

@@javierlopez9789 "Kylo couldn't even beat a scavenger" because he was brutally injured, not trying to kill her, couldn't concentrate on the force because of his injuries and the "scavenger"(that is a fighter also) had just tapped in the force which would give her the advantage in her fighting skills. Kylo/Ben in the st won't be able to defeat Vader but in time he would have surpassed him if he lived passed 9

[@javierlopez9789]

@@deadshot5007 yeah i hardly think so, he didn't do anything impressive in The movie and while The comics fleshed him out a bit more, it is stil not enough, Im pretty sure episode 1 darth Maul would have been able to handle kylo With no problem, through The movies they tell us that he is super strong and all that crap but they never show it

[@deadshot5007]

@@javierlopez9789 Kinda hard to show it when his only opponents are a jedi with 1 year training, his band of goons that he knows every move on, some guards that aren't that impressive and a hologram :/ But we see that he can easily handle them by the end of 9 so I think he is good enough to take on opponents such as Maul or Vader in a few years since his main weakness was the dark side confliction which is kinda gone now.

[@BelgianMaguire]

This video only needed to be one second and one word : Vader

[@bombshell782]

Now this was unexpected! Imo Vader batters ren, even if you scale ren of episode 9 as stronger than vader in force power, superior swordsmen have defeated stronger force wielders in Star Wars many times before eg obi wan besting anakin in episode 3 and I don’t think there is an any argument for ren being a better duelist than vader! Id love for you to talk about these kind of things with people like Jensaari1 or Evannova 95 who deal heavily with Star Wars vs battles! Overall solid video and get your viewpoint but don’t believe that someone being better and more powerful in the force makes them more viable in a vs battle.

[@ultraradiation1919]

And the vaders force abilities are just too op

[@RandomComicEnjoyer]

Vader has WAAAAY superiour raw force power

[@kanekx5962]

@@RandomComicEnjoyer no

[@kanekx5962]

this is completely wrong, kylo is the better duelist. he killed the red guards who are superior to the emperor guards who can spar with vader

[@RandomComicEnjoyer]

@@kanekx5962 vader barely uses any skill against them at all Lmao. They barely can deflect or dodge laser bolts.

[@Ivbo]

*”Downplaying Kylo is a little sad at this point”* - Just read the comment section.

[@matthew1995king]

There are people trying to say Kylo wins. Personally I say Vader but that's my opinion.

[@calebstevens9446]

@@matthew1995king because he has a shot lol, Vader is heavily overrated, and the fact that we’re only gonna get more kylo lore is intriguing.

[@nomorechance4754]

@@calebstevens9446 lowball kylo or not, he def loses to vader since new Canon vader is a beast

[@hilde198881]

@@calebstevens9446 nobody is downplaying kylo. He just doesn’t compare to Vader. And how is he overrated? Because you don’t like him or something.

[@Motercycelgy222]

@@calebstevens9446 are u dumb how is Vader over rated he has single handedly wiped out hundreds of rebels with TANKS by him self and yea kylo is strong in the force but he is a terrible dueles

[@andrescantos2281]

The biggest problem with Kylo fight on epVII is that even being wounded and conflicted, he was still winning, and suddenly rey got an anime like power up and she stomps kylo in a few seconds, thats the real problem the anime like power up

[@scottishbutamerican1300]

Here’s why I don’t excuse Kylo loosing to Rey in TFA. I understand that he was conflicted, injured, and not at his best. But the reason I do t excuse it is because he defeated a trained soldier but lost to a scavenger that, in the words of snoke, “never held a lightsaber”

[@kanestalin7246]

I agree with you, on top of that he still has all his limbs

[@grimlord3181]

Yeah, he was clearly winning at first.

[@i_am__majestx7746]

I mean, we all in silence know a hidden secret in Sequels, which was revieled in ep.9- Fin is a Force sensitive.

[@shirothr5384]

@@i_am__majestx7746 gonna say it, Finn probably should have been the main character

[@siduxjxhdgzhdjxhxuuxxyhgg1079]

@@shirothr5384 stopped caring about the latest movies when i found out fin wasnt mc

[@jackmitchelles2646]

Kylo is pitiful Not only would Vader walk right through him, if pitted 6 Kylo Rens against 1 Darth Vader, Vader would win without even breaking a sweat

[@6ixlxrd]

Look at it this way: Rey beat Kylo Ren with NO training and after having found out what the Force was a few hours ago. Vader slaughtered Younglings with ease. Younglings have years more training than Rey, who beat Kylo. Therefore, the Younglings put up more of a fight against Vader than Kylo would.

[@marvincruz6721]

Have you even watched the sequels or are you dumb?? Kylo was hurt by the Chewbacca Crossbow and he was only blocking the attacks of Rey. In TROS Kylo EASILY defeats a full trained Rey

[@6ixlxrd]

@@marvincruz6721 Have YOU watched the sequels or are...I already know the answer. The more hurt a Dark Side User is, the stronger their connection to the Dark Side. Kylo being hurt from Chewbacca *should've* buffed him (the same way Maul being split in-half buffed him, or the way Anakin becoming crispy-man and a walking asthma attack buffed him). I mean, Disney literally took this same fact, completely broke it like they broke everything else, then used it to justify how Palpatine survived being completely incinerated on a cellular level then having the ashes of his mollecular structure's atoms caught in the heart of an explosion the force and size of roughly three nukes in the middle of open space. Besides, they even have some bs excuse behind why Rey beat him (and spoilers: it has *nothing* to do with him being hurt, which has been debunked time and time again). She has some sort of force "dyad" that immediately scales her to his power regardless of training. -Maul: *Gets Cut in Half* -Also Maul: *Gets Viewed as a Rival by Palpatine* -Anakin: *Gets Burnt to a Crisp After Losing His Legs* -Also Anakin: *Wipes Out the Jedi* -Kylo: *Gets Shot* -Also Kylo: *Gets Beaten by a Stormtrooper and a Girl*

[@davidgendron4719]

I agree 100%

[@sheadoherty7434]

@@6ixlxrd its interesting how you bring up pain buffing up characters who were defeated by the strokes that gave them the injuries. Pain may increase ones relationship with the dark side but it doesn't negate the injury. Maul, Vader and Kylo all needed immediate medical attention.

[@6ixlxrd]

@@sheadoherty7434 Pain isn’t exclusive to physical injures, but mental turmoil as well. Anakin’s connection to the Dark Side tripled his power after he basically killed Mace, but before that his visions of Padme’s death heightened the levels of his power and connection to the force. This is proven again when Luke completely overwhelms Vader after briefly giving into the pain of potentially losing his friends and sister. Kylo had JUST killed his father and it did absolutely nothing. And while pain doesn’t negate physical injures, it does negate the effects of said physical injury, allowing Dark Side user’s to get stronger as they fight the more their bodies are damaged while effectively keeping them alive through fatal injuries. Maul’s hatred (mental pain) of Kenobi allowed him to survive being cut in half from the torso (physical pain). Anakin’s hatred (mental pain) of everything allowed him to survive being burned to a crisp (physical pain). I could go on. None of them needed “immediate” medical attention. Anakin’s survived for hours on Mustafar before Palpatine found him thanks to the pain, then proceeded to survive the trip to wherever Palp took him. Maul survived without a lower torso long enough to change planets. And somehow, thanks to Disney, Palpatine’s hatred of the galaxy allowed him to survive being completely incinerated at the heart of an explosion roughly the force of 3+ nukes in the center of space. Then there’s Kylo...

[@Xogroroth666]

OH COME ON. Rylo Ken even lost to an untrained "farmer girl". God. This is comparing a Smurf to The Hulk in a fight.

[@Xogroroth666]

Also, conflict does not always weaken one. Think of Windu, balancing between Light and Dark. How this edge-dancing empowered him. He defeated Failpatine with unseen ease. Another idiocy, is that, bringing the former up, the Dark Side does not corrupt, contrair to what is been said and believed. It's one's soul, giving in into greed, lust, power hunger, ... . Not "the dark Side". In fact, there's no such thing as either, there's only the Force. Much like there is no White nor Black Magic, there's just magic. How it is used, makes it been called one or the other. Much like a knife: It can save (scalpel as example) or destroy. Same principle.