Data in Germany shows why China will kill its auto industry within 5 years

[@electricviking]

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[@murkhuddindalal]

sir, make a video on Tata Avinya 2025, if possible. thanks from India

[@m.3257]

German here. Anecdotal evidence but I have a friend working at VW. Their team flew from Frankfurt to Las Vegas this year. They had a very nice hotel and were flying business class. They stayed for around one week and learned something about autonomous driving. They were gambling in the evening and went to some nice restaurants. Then they flew back to Germany. Cost per person around 8k. VW gladly paid for the trip. Knowledge gain was minimal to non existent.

[@cool_things_collection]

The money you spend on Western products ends up funding their holidays, while Chinese companies invest all of it into intensive R&D to improve customer experience. That's the difference.

[@steveharvey2001]

VW does their hot weather testing in Arizona every year and their R&D staff are rewarded for their time away from home with R&R in Las Vegas

[@WyreForestBiker]

​@cool_things_collection Nothing to do with under the table investment by the Communist Govt then ?... so naive

[@larryc1616]

Did they have a good time?

[@LloydStoltz]

Why not do knowledge transfer over Zoom?

[@h.s.4654]

We ourselves kill our auto industry. Don't blame the Chinese for European inflexibility in production and clinging to outdated revenue models.

[@normyanke2515]

similar to your solar and wind power disaster, history shows all successful societies failed, looks like Germany is going first.

[@fredfrond6148]

@@normyanke2515France.

[@reinoud6377]

European cars and esp. German cars are just far too expensive. Even Japanese/Korean cars are getting expensive

[@grahamkearnon6682]

Just look at British vehicle manufacturing, almost dead.

[@h.s.4654]

​@@reinoud6377 And some European governments make cars even more expensive by all kind of taxes.

[@hughmungus2760]

seems like germany just rested on its laurels and took its brief industrial superiority for granted. Now its being overtaken in just about everything

[@grahamkearnon6682]

Germany vehicle production fails is the forebear of US vehicle production failure.

[@NoiserToo]

@@grahamkearnon6682- agreed, unless they return to affordable ICE vehicles. Same in Japan.

[@besovereign2032]

the management class are rotten

[@tca666]

There was no superioritynin the first place.. its all carapppp 🤪💩

[@ohcho-fg4co]

Germany doesn't have digital electronics industry. Battery is also part of it. German car industry is kaput.

[@oceanwave4502]

We know electric cars are easy to manufacture due to fewer parts (also simpler). So what makes non-Chinese companies hard to compete in this regard? China knew this so China made this "simple" thing difficult to be caught up: tons of addons, extremely cheap (energy cost to produce, rare earth materials), AI/Autonomous/Sensor stuff... EVERY software developer learned from school how to write "Hello world" program, but non of them can compete with Microsoft/Google/Oracle offerings!

[@JCSY1]

Yes. Very true.

[@stephenlock7236]

​@@oceanwave4502Hopefully the head honcos of the western car makers agree with you and that they have nothing to fear from the Chinese makers. Even get their governments to remove all punitive tariffs and other trade barriers and outcompete the competitions.

[@pbrigham]

China was the cash cow for them to be able to support the cost in Europe, not anymore, the Chinese woke up.

[@kangzhilou4207]

@@oceanwave4502 But one the main objectives of developing the electric cars is to make cars become "running computers", which is very important in modern information society. It's not Chinese companies delibrately make car producing complex so complex. It should be this way, just like Nokia -> iphone or Android.

[@LirickZ]

As a Chinese born in 2004, I have heard a phrase about German cars from my parents since I was a child: "Precise German craftsmanship". Chinese people at that time regarded German cars as luxury goods among cars. But in the eyes of young car enthusiasts of our generation, the "collection value" of German cars has exceeded the "practical value". We regard them as some kind of "nostalgic era" brand, which seems to be because German cars have not undergone any attractive innovations in the past decade.

[@justinstephenson9360]

VW cannot be competitive by cutting wages in Germany. They need to change production methods which would result in a lot more automation and a lot less employment per manufacturing plant. That has happened countless times across many different industries, it is the way new technology disrupts the old way

[@djt8518]

with less and less people working who buys the cars

[@taylorc2542]

It's actually really easy: require that BYD forms a joint venture with VW, using German workers and factories and a BYD chassis (but with German design quality).

[@tyo0815]

The over employment is not in the manufacturing.

[@supertouring1]

@@taylorc2542 VW already linked up with XPeng for platform and sw sharing in China. Meanwhile, in NA and possibly Europe, they're linking up with Rivian for sw and platform sharing. I assume they're hedging their best on working with 2 different companies/platforms due to political reasons and see which joint venture works out better.

[@cagejones7757]

@@taylorc2542 German car quality is a myth that stopped being reality decades ago.

[@johnkelley1426]

Your headline ought to read: 'Germany Will Kill Its Auto Industry Within 5 Years for Actions It Failed Taking in the Past 10 Years'

[@Discovery2024-rn8kn]

Add smug and arrogance played a role too

[@201sovereign]

The Germans are losing to China in EVs and to the Japanese in ICE vehicles. A neighbour of mine bought the BYD Atto 3 for his wife last year and just recently bought a Toyota Land Cruiser 300 for himself. Their previous cars were the Volkswagen Tiguan and the Porsche Cayenne. Apparently cost of maintenance and reliability was an issue.

[@motionsick]

Lol the BYD will last a couple years before it fails.

[@201sovereign]

@motionsick she's quite happy with it actually. She loves it more than the Tiguan she drove previously

[@motionsick]

@201sovereign Its clownish your government allows these vehicles into the country. You are killing your own industries. BYD cars are notorious for being pieces of junk. The car will be fine until its not.

[@celxoirealyx]

​@@motionsick we$tern3rs used to say this about Japanese automobiles back in the 90s. Doesn't age very well. 😂

[@celxoirealyx]

​​@@motionsick westerners used to say this about Japanese automobiles in the 90s. The stereotype doesn't age very well. And why is my comment got deleted? So much for free speech. 😂

[@aja4191]

Can we all remember when Mercedes C class was doing so well they shipped production to Mexico to save costs and then quality fell through the floor. Never learn

[@ouethojlkjn]

Funny you mentioned that - Toyota did the same and the result is massive recalls, warranty claims, dead gearboxes, swarf in the engines.

[@andrewnelson3681]

Who knew that Germans aren’t the same as Mexicans. ?

[@rogerburn5132]

Soon Mercedes will be Made in Albania to save costs Who cares about quality 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@ruilopes359]

@@rogerburn5132😂😂😂

[@rogerburn5132]

@@ruilopes359 yes,, 😂😂😂

[@ISuperTed]

The biggest issue is the deep supply chain in Germany and other countries in Europe and beyond that are dependant on the German market. If it tanks, then there are literally millions of jobs at risk and the subsequent impact on economies across Europe.

[@amandagrant4331]

It's not that serious. France does not depend on the German economy. If the German economy collapses, France may still benefit.

[@patrickpirzer4080]

That's true. Especially the Visegrad states (Poland, Hungary, Czeck Republic and Slovakia) are already suffering.

[@NoiserToo]

And then consider the political ramifications

[@dylanthomas12321]

​@@amandagrant4331 it's very serious. French two way trade with Germany is about $200 billion annually. That's many millions of jobs, not just autos and parts. German workers by French wines and so. Just look at the official data. Most of the EU will be worse off within five years. They must urgently make changes now. VW asks for a 10 percent wage cut, the Works Council (unions) demand a 10 percent increase. Incumbent players don't mean to be bad or stupid. They just locked into ways over many years, and they can't respond to change.

[@adama8570]

If suppliers go bankrupt spare parts could be a serious issue for all german cars! The whole of the european economy will suffer!

[@Knightmare919]

Thats the problem of relying on suppliers look at china at least majority of their parts are made in house lowering the cost.

[@larryc1616]

Japan too. Kodak!

[@oceanwave4502]

Russian cheap energy helped Germany's industry afloat despite high labor cost, less digitalization and high bucreaucracy. But I guess this topic is a taboo to discuss. 🤭

[@markevans5892]

They best sort themselves out then, instead of using delaying tactics and telling everyone it’s EVs fault. They have ignored the drop off of new cars for years and just continue to manufacture at pre-pandemic quantities. The only people at fault here are the people at the top o these companies for not taking the right decisions at the right time!

[@B00kman]

I also remember when the German car bosses laughed at Teslas as “toys”…

[@Anthony-qj7qe]

The fact is most of the Chinese electric cars are now better and cost less and, they are efficient at making them. I would rather buy a Chinese car, than one of these subpar German cars at twice the price....

[@jogana6909]

I agree

[@dwang552]

German people are very rigid and methodical, I worked for a German company subdivision in US, they can not make it in US. Chinese people are more flexible and daring, they can push through many projects. German will over analyze everything and never accomplish complex task

[@scrambaba]

They said the same thing about Japan in the 80s.

[@Sentymentkok]

Germans were never able to build proper cars. I know that, because i have an uncle who works for a guy who visited Germany once.

[@ragnarokws2670]

@@Sentymentkok China is not same as Japan, U.S always trying to use same trick they used on Japan to bring Japan economies to hell, the trick on China fail so hard.

[@philhealey4443]

​@Sentymentkok Well my friend's neighbour's uncle saw it on TV. Seriously though, I have to respect a nation where people use laser alignment when trimming hedges and lawns.

[@jogana6909]

Nokia, too, refuses to change and goes against consumers.

[@robertn2951]

I wish IG Metall would watch your videos, Viking.

[@gordongekko4752]

Reporter asking legacy automaker VW how they went bankrupt. “How did you go bankrupt? Two ways. Gradually, then suddenly.” -- Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises, 1926.

[@JustAThought01]

From my experience, the difference between American car manufacturers and foreign (first Japanese and then Chinese) is intent. America built cars to make profit and the foreign built cars to dominate the market. One to satisfy the builders and the other to satisfy the buyers.

[@raychii7361]

They are telling me Chinese car's a cheap low quality trash. But guess what? American cars a low quality trash so I rather pay less for trash.

[@JustAThought01]

@@raychii7361, I assume your income is not tied to automobile manufacturing. The problem for any country which cannot compete on price is how to continue to employ their workers. Companies try to increase profit. Workers try to increase wages. Both strategies work against the common interests in a global economy. Humans need to rethink our government policies and economy models.

[@R4YHAN786]

Bang on - The West always driven by greed to satisfy shareholders. Common Joe paying $$$$$s extra for a product boosted by marketing

[@larryc1616]

China builds to dominate the market now

[@infinitebeing1119]

You are right...American only intrested in profit...they even failed in India eventhough they had earlier access to the Indian market..but japnese, Korean, Chinese, Indian manufacturers are thriving.

[@pauldby1479]

The EU is trying to build its house roof first

[@stevemartin7464]

I suspect they aren't even building a roof, we have a bunch of emotional people reacting emotionally to major issues ignoring science and a considered, balanced approach instead reacting in an alarmingly unplanned and unrealistic way to many things. We need strong, principled leaders who believe in reasonable approaches and rational policies not these hysterical muppets who feel economic suicide is fine to achieve nirvana.

[@MattyMoores]

My friend borrowed a £120,000 EQS for the weekend to drive us to his boat in the Lake District. It was garbage.

[@passdasalt]

If only they focused their attention on an electric version of the Golf, instead of deep-diving into emissions cheating mechanisms, they might have my sympathy.

[@standimitrov678]

Problem is the lazy Germans. I worked a lot with Germans and it's a pain in the *ss. They don't communicate before or after working hours. They lack any business flexibility. They don't care to get deep into the problems of their partners and are not ready to communicate any suggestions in regards to work improvement. And all of this I can honestly declare to be the reality for almost all German partners we had. On the other hand, Chinese don't sleep. I don't mean it literally, but they know what is the target and work until the goal is reached and next is targeted. Eastern Europe is also growing steady despite western hesitation. Hope the German self preservation instinct will wake them up and they become the manufacturing and quality management beasts they have once been.

[@iankuah8606]

Next to slave labour. Disposable workforce.

[@Smokey-t9r]

And taking sick leave is a national pastime in Germany.

[@1949coupe]

Its not just the German auto industry. The industries that made Germany what it is today (automotive, steel production, machine building, pharma, chemical, electronics, etc.) are all mature industries with lots of cheap foreign competition. Instead of spending the record tax revenues, on education, improving infrastructure, R&D, etc., they built up armies of civil servants, laws, regulations, taxes, laws, etc. that blew Trillions on immigration and climate change sinkholes and in VWs case, overpaying and over staffing their factories. As an N. American living in Germany since 2018, Germany will not make it through the hybrid and electrification pivot without a complete bloodbath in the OEM factories and their suppliers. R&D will be in China as well for EVs. You cannot expect innovation when you restrict free thoughts and speech since Kindergarten, push kids into tightly scripted and enforced moulds and punish anyone for thinking outside the box. Critical thinking is verboten. Following the current rate of construction all of Germany should have Fiber internet by 2050. If it takes 15 years to build an airport or train station, who long do you think it would take Germany to build new gas or nuclear power plants and the charging infrastructure of handle over 60 million electric vehicles in Germany......2060?

[@optimal9094]

Germany is also occupied by the Americans, they cut their cheap energy, blew up their pipeline and enslaved in their proxy war.

[@rossdunn2317]

Sam. I attended the Bangkok Motor Show last week (along with tens of thousands of people!! 😮 - shocked by how many!!) and saw a RH drive Wuling Bingo. (No sign of the Aion UT unfortunately) If Wuling put in the work to make a RH Bingo I certainly hope they intend sending it to Oz!! Nice car.

[@iankuah8606]

Would you admit to owning a car with such a silly name?

[@protagonist9716]

​@@iankuah8606 VW Beetle, Fiat panda. . Best sellers, silly names

[@VidarLund-k5q]

China's 1,4 billion inhabitants make a huge home market to sell to in the first place. Large numbers are lower prices no matter what you produce. A good foundation for producing cheaper products than your competitors.

[@jasonmugridge]

And the Germans have been building in China for 40+ years, longer than most of their Chinese rivals have existed. But rather than capitalise on this significant advantage they squandered their lead and just sat back in German counting the money. Good job they invested it wisely... oh wait!!!

[@grahamkearnon6682]

Outside the shiny neon cities in China, there's a huge crowd of still very poor Chinese who will never be able to afford a a car, any car. That is why the push to export Chinese vehicles is being ramped up around the world, 75 country's import them today.

[@NoiserToo]

Throw in some government subsidy and you’re home free

[@horridohobbies]

@@grahamkearnon6682 China's urbanization rate is 65%. That means *900 million* Chinese can look forward to buying a car.

[@jimmylam9846]

@@grahamkearnon6682 You should go to China to investigate how many luxury cars on the roads...suburban and rural are full of electric 3 wheelers the cost of $ 800 US or less to move around !

[@weinbergfrank2252]

Chinese here. Several years ago my college friends and me worked hard to switch major to CS, cause it was basically the only industry offering western level salary in China. We were envying EU who nearly missed the IT revolution can live such a good life. Now we are know that you can't lie on something created 100 years ago like ICE car industry and gain great profit forever.

[@ToriZealot]

Yeah, cheap Energy is important but efficient manufacturing is king in the end.

[@thisplayer01]

Great episode, valuable insights - thanks!

[@johnfrancis4401]

The quality of electric cars varies, but most are very good. The problem for VW, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, Stellantis and Toyota is the value for money. Tesla and BYD are equivalent quality but much lower price.

[@vincentlehmann646]

think also about who is producing the car under which conditions. Better not being dependent on russian oil and gas or Chinese cars.

[@janh-r8h]

And Teslas speed of innovation is much better than anyone elses.

[@eish3291]

​@@vincentlehmann646 If you had the formula to be independent of Russian and Arab oil as well as independence from Chinese built cars you would be a very rich man. Think hard about it.

[@royh6526]

"Tesla and BYD are equivalent quality" I don't think so. Tesla sells about equal number of BEVs in China for almost twice the price of BYD. Chinese people are willing to pay a steep premium for a better product.

[@johnfrancis4401]

@ Tesla quality is higher than BYD. But BYD quality is equal to VW quality for a much lower price.

[@elmojito]

Please don't use how many seconds cars come out as a measure of how long it takes for them to make them. It is a measure a plant capacity not man/hours of labor and therefore efficiency.

[@Alarix246]

Yes he is ridiculous. The same goes for the average range, which is of course due to many people owning smaller EVs like BMW small one, with low range because these are not the cars used for weekends, they are shopping trolleys sort of. The higher price is influenced by more BMWs, Porsches and MBs - Sam is indeed laughable, but I'm not surprised, being and Australian myself.

[@dennisschott2352]

In response to the "German here" post, the person posting forgot to say that his friends were from the engineering group of Volkswagen. No automotive company in the world is going to send production employees on a vacation trip. They will send engineers to see if they can see what they can see, therefore can write it off as a business expense of the company. If you don't believe the Chinese do the same thing you're very naive.

[@v1ncy_vinny406]

Interesting to get back to this in 5 years

[@jamesdonaghy9143]

I was in the market for washing machine recently, and a friend recommended Bosch as a reliable brand. So i googled the reviews and was shocked to see Bosch being pillared by remorseful buyers. Its almost as if they've already shut up shop and won't honour warrenties. People reslly hate them now. This is a brand that was top notch for all my adult life and I'm 61 years old. What a fall!

[@madwolf-us4sc]

Does this mean that an economic crash is coming ?

[@HaraldinChina]

it's already here. Check for "industrial production Germany" on any search engine or AI chatbot. German industry is collapsing

[@mikafiltenborg7572]

Economic crash coming for All legacy ICE automakers, before december 2030. EV-disruption from China and Tesla.

[@amandagrant4331]

Nokia crashed ≠ Economy crashed

[@patrickpirzer4080]

@@amandagrant4331 Yes but in the german case the three pilars of german economy are in danger at the same time: Car manufactors, mechanical engineering and chemical industry.

[@user27455]

Nokis was not the main pillar for the Finnish economy. VW alone is 8 percent of German GDP​@@amandagrant4331

[@arjenchristianhelder1027]

Problem is that when 80% of the manufacturers eventually go bankrupt, which they will then you will have an unsupported car, without any access to all its proprietary things, including parts, software, and replacement circuit boards that you cannot get anywhere else, so it makes more sense to get an EV from a very established manufacturer, or if you care about repairability and cost of ownership beyond 5 years, perhaps its better to stick with a car that any garage can fix and where there is access to 3rd party repair parts.

[@nemesis1134]

Agree, Some people hear about a Fisker or Nikola Semi (a stretch ) The less common the vehicle the harder it will be to find parts for it in any scenario including the Chinese made ones. Older models in numbers like the Leaf, more reasonably priced replacement batteries may eventually become available to extend life.

[@iankuah8606]

Chinese EV companies in their home market going bust left right and centre. From 200 in 2019 to about 10 today, so no support and parts for customers and appalling customer service from existing brands too. You can find all this online in various KZbin videos made by angry Chinese customers. Many going back to ICE after terrible EV ownership experiences.

[@cheesecake7159]

I remember Top Gear episode when they review Chinese car in china, they said China's will flooded world market and beat others car manufacturers. Now it's started became real

[@pbrigham]

European wanted to create a wonder land for workers, good intentions, yes, but unfortunately not sustainable, they are starting to pay the price. The sad part is the next generation will live worse and with a bigger debt to pay than the previous one.

[@pr1stvan]

They did it and it was sustainable, but the new generation of genX/millenial leaders (and workers too) with not so good intentions ruined it.

[@hermesliteratus882]

Europeans are living in their own dream, and if they continue to be complacent and arrogant, they may wake up too late.

[@zes3813]

wrg

[@mamacryright5740]

@@pbrigham the only option left is, leave N'ATO, apologize to Russia and apply to join BRICS +

[@oceanwave4502]

Unpopular view: EU worker conditions are the result of uncontrolled mass medias: they let the people do what they (people) like (e.g. 4-day workweek), rather than do what help them SURVIVE in the long term! (e.g. work hard 996, or much acceptant to robot/automation/digitalization to compensate for high labor cost).

[@richardnwilson]

😅 I don't see how focusing on the amount of time it takes to make an electric car is significance except for indicating the total maximum output possible from a factory. Just because you can put a car through the assembly line in less time doesn't mean that it's more efficient or will cost any less.

[@ToriZealot]

In theory faster does not mean more efficient necessarily, but in practice there is a correlation 😊

[@royh6526]

Yes, it depends. Tesla makes more sub sections in parallel so building time is quicker, but still takes almost as many people. However Tesla also focuses on making parts and assembly as fast as possible, so for the same number of employees, if they can speed up the line, they get more cars/employee.

[@dylanthomas12321]

​@@royh6526 Tesla will be first to fully automate it's factories. First at FSD. Will completely disrupt Uber, Lyft etc. Industrial scale batteries (best software), green credits, they have so many pathways in to profit. It seems only BYD understood this early on.

[@kbmblizz1940]

I worked with Germans in '90s. It was hard to understand how they had such high standards of living yet worked fewer hours. I never understood why ppl would pay so much just to have the MB, BMW logo on over-engineered cars. Now 🚗 shifted from precision machinery to ⚡/🔋/SW/AI, their overhead costs far exceed the value delivered.

[@richh650]

Unless one has more of a high end professional career, these prices seem bat-seit crazy and completely out of reach for 80+% of the population.

[@TheOrangeGunner]

Sam, aside from Norway and maybe the Netherlands there is no overall strategy when it comes to EV adoption. EVs in Europe are expensive,, and come with lower charging speeds. But the real sad story is on the infrastructure side. The charging infrastructure is bad and expensive, especially outside the Tesla infrastructure. When in UK a fast charger, which is 150kw, can charge 0.8 to almost 1 pound per kwh driving electric becomes way too expensive. Whereas charging at home with the right tariff can be 01 to 0.15 pounds. This is the big stumbling block. Yes I would love to own a Zeekr 007 that can charge 10 to 80% in 10 minutes but the charging stations to do so do not exist and if they come they will be not in sufficient numbers. Europe is now experiencing the hangover from bad and expensive charging infrastructure. The early adopters of EVs have been reached but to get the rest on board is harder. This coincides with EVs in Europe being expensive.

[@iscadean6038]

Recently, driving through France into Germany and Switzerland, I found the average costs of charging was €0.50c with Tesla being slightly cheaper. In the UK the average cost of charging is £0.75p or nearly €1. Do the maths. The UK is being ripped off by externally owner businesses. And we do nothing about it. Time to get out on the streets. Or simply don’t use the chargers. I use Tesla with my Polestar and get most charges for £0.52p/kWh.

[@stephenlock7236]

You should not be surprised that the poor charging infrastructure in your country is a deliberate policy by the local car manufacturers and government to muddle the uptake of EVs in your country. That's to allow the local manufacturers to play catch up with MIC EVs before the MIC EVs dominate the local market.

[@iscadean6038]

@ UK charging infrastructure is privately owned so no state involvement in building, funding or prices. However, the UK has 65,000 chargers and over the past year numbers have risen by 43%. By 2030 we should have over 200,000.

[@jasonmugridge]

@@iscadean6038 the price structures are set at government level.

[@iscadean6038]

@ maximum prices, possibly. No minimum pricing however. 50p/kWh would be useful but as long as private industry can make their profit as they roll out the infrastructure then that’s good - for them - not the consumer. If, and when the infrastructure is complete, then nationalising the charging network to control prices might be a good idea.

[@mymingyen]

I do wonder, is fast charging worth it ? The speed of charging vs the possibility of increased battery degradation over time. Is there a goldilocks zone? Thinking sustainability wise … isn’t it worse to employ fast charging just for a little convenience? And is it selectable ?

[@gerardleahy6946]

I note your comments on gigacastings and understand their value at production stage. However, if the car is involved in an accident, it will be very difficult/impossible or uneconomically viable to repair it. The number of cars being written off for this reason will cause insurance premiums to rocket.

[@dylanthomas12321]

FSD will avoid most accidents. Tesla will begin insuring its cars. Another profit center.

[@williamlebotschy2729]

It’s not only EV prices, quality and leading edge technology . The same applies to solar. No European or US company can compete with China in the high performance segment. Europe is known to be unable to have nimble businesses.

[@JoePolaris]

One point that one seems to be discussing, with the incurred changes of costs of energy for EU and more specifically Germany. The cost of Russian energy was below market, they have to bear higher costs of production with higher energy costs. I have concerns about the quality and software maturity of non-European or American vendors, and their practices. The legacy OEMs did wait too long to get in the EV game. Save Ukraine, they have lithium supply to support EU for 100y+ according to reports.

[@grahamsmith6443]

I actually think governments slowing down the transition will be worse for their car markets. By doing this it allows for the manufacturers to slow down and take their foot off the gas, allowing developing car makers the chance to gain a larger market share and better tech

[@Stta-p5q]

bad math: 460 km is about 285 miles

[@ravipeiris4388]

I appreciate your humanity Mr. Evans regarding speaking against animal abuse.

[@reinoud6377]

3:43 indeed. Some computer manufactors in the 80-90s had the same issue

[@jensonee]

While technically any worker in China can join a trade union, Chinese car companies are not considered to be significantly unionized in the traditional sense, as unions in China are heavily controlled by the government and often function more as a channel for management to communicate with workers rather than actively advocating for collective bargaining or strikes; meaning their power to negotiate for worker rights is significantly limited. while just next door to china, in south korea, both hyundai and kia workers are unionized and their unions are very strong pro worker unions.

[@SMJ-l6r]

I don’t understand why westerners think they need to have an opinion on our government. I love the content because it’s informative but what business do you have to judge anything about the CCP or how we live in China? Do Chinese people go around saying “I’m not going to by something because Israel/colonialism?” Western opinions on China is such condescending BS. They pretend to care about human rights when they don’t even send in a single journalist to see with their own eyes or listen to what’s happening. The pretence is just an excuse to sanction or control our economy or be racist towards us when it gets hard to compete. Next to no one in China would ever trade our government for whatever is happening in NA or EU… but we don’t go around talking about how awful your nations are all day. I’m disappointed that electric Viking still thinks it’s important to confirm that he still has a negative opinion about the Chinese government to be mainstream so we can keep pretending that everything great about our country is happening “despite” not listening to the west and not because there is any chance Chinese people might know what they are doing.

[@kamyuen1478]

But what he said was "it's not what I like, personally". I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I am not even remotely offended. It's not like he said he hated the Chinese or the Chinese government. All he said was that he didn't like it. We need to grow a thicker skin. If all we ever heard was effervescent praise for everything in China, it would never change or improve. Sometimes criticism is perfectly valid, the important thing is context and how it is being said, whether it is with good or impartial intent, or with malice. I'm with the Viking on this one.

[@SMJ-l6r]

@ absolutely disagree. No one ever unconditionally praises China, it’s the exact opposite. He literally said nothing about China except a snide remark to nod at “yes I don’t like communists, you can trust me.” It has nothing to do with thick skin at all. It’s so frustrating looking at people who try to make sure that regardless of how I think about China, I’ll always nod at some vague idea that China government = bad like it’s any of your business. Let’s not even try to sugar coat this and pretend he had a criticism of substance.

[@4svideosforschool]

Americans, I am one, tend to believe there is nothing good outside of the USA. It’s arrogance plus racism.There is a long history of racism against the Chinese going way back to the 1800s. This nation specifically targeted Chinese people with laws against them, the Chinese Exclusion Act. That same hatred is still around as COVID proved when Chinese grandmas were attacked on the streets of this country. In World War 2 we even threw Japanese-American citizens into camps and the government stole their land and property and many Americans today still don’t believe we were wrong. Trump wants to eliminate the 14th amendment and throw out more citizens! Our racism is on full display and people still scream we are not racist. The number of intellectually gifted people in China is more than the population of the USA. Don’t worry about the criticism. Innovate and create and lead by example. On my trip to China I witnessed people working hard to get ahead, just like in the USA. China has a lot going for it. I do have my criticisms too, but what is happening in China today is something very unique in its long history. China has found a way to leverage capitalism and become a new version of itself.

[@Riannu-i8x]

If you have not caught on white people always think they are superior. Just 500 years of being ahead when we have thousands of years they are backwater people. The global south needs to rise if they are to destroy the institutions the west put up to keep us global south down. That's why even if the CCP are authoritarian, they offer alternative way of doing things that in some ways are superior to western oligarchy. Democracy are smokescreen they use to justify their wars.

[@wolandrew]

Hope your social score went up a bit for posting this comment.

[@ulrichbrossmann1225]

I don't think that slow DC charging speed is the main issue with German EVs the Infrastructure simply isn't there. Price surely is the main issue - simply not affordable to the general public

[@unblessedcoffee1457]

I believe in the free market. So does everyone when it suits them.

[@Greggspies]

One reason EVs lose money fast is technology, range is improving every week making older cars value drop

[@davidlloyd8135]

You can't catch up if you aren't in the race

[@James-ol6rw]

Bring back the original VW Beetle with rear 4 cylinder, horizontally opposed four and they will sell like hotcakes if priced right!

[@CJ70-]

Agree VW prices are nuts petrol and even!

[@aduckquackquack5783]

Since Germany buys expensive Russian oil from India their input costs are astronomical. Meanwhile China buys excess Russian oil at a discount. Additionally German car companies are beholden to their investors and must continue to pay they billions.

[@Mrbfgray]

Unions probably more detrimental than all that, toxic culture. Tesla makes good money there for reasonably priced top tier cars. Germany screwed the pooch shutting down nukes, high priced energy punishes everything. Add the crippling bureaucracy.

[@rolandfritz1191]

Energie is 4% of the production cost at VW, this is no excuse for me(i am german).

[@mikemalone9678]

Since when does VW use oil to make cars?

[@amandagrant4331]

Germany should move its factory to India and take advantage of India's low-priced oil and labor.

[@Rhotz-ix8ll]

Putin talking point until the last part which doesn’t make sense. Everybody’s doing it for a profit.

[@ouethojlkjn]

Skywell Chinese SUVs have just started selling in the UK. Long Range [300+ miles] BEV with every extra, yours On the Road for just under forty thousand pounds.

[@stopato5772]

As an owner of 2 German luxury brands and living in Germany, I am so over the costs of repairs - not just maintenance which gets higher every time, -but the parts replacement! So many things it has almost. cost me another car.. When they work the comfort is the best, but it has a cost.

[@andrewlim7751]

It's used to be quite reasonable even better than Japanese 15 years ago.

[@stevemartin7464]

I suspect its with all manufacturers, the price of spares is amazing!

[@georgepappas4628]

Yes, that has been the demise of the German car. If you bought a German car 20 or 30 years ago, it would last a long time, but the quality of German cars is now terrible. In Australia, where I live, sales of German cars is falling as prices sky-rocket, and owners are getting fed up with the cost of repairs and maintenance. You can buy a Japanese or Korean luxury car much cheaper and it will be much more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

[@HaraldinChina]

Life in China is peaceful, though. Not sure about Australia, but in Europe it's a mess, socially, politically, economically. China is calm.

[@leoaksil4085]

Sure, buddy 😂+9999 social credit.

[@waynerussell6401]

By decree. Try holding a protest or even an opinion!

[@yulusleonard985]

@@waynerussell6401 Isnt this happen all the time? Chinese Authorities are very afraid of protest that they always over correct.

[@mamacryright5740]

There's price to pay bcoZ EU are friends , follower & loyal to AMERICA big boss

[@zes3813]

wrr, not, outx, can outx etc any nmw and any s perfx

[@LILEE376]

Can anyone show me a cheap Chinese electric car in Europe? I mean one you can buy now. I checked the price if the BYD cheapest models here in the EU, in Hungary where the BYD is building its next factory, but their price was not cheap or cheaper at all. Before the new EU taxes. So where are the cheap or at least affordable EV-s? I think in Erope the whole EV segment is doomed, not just the European brands. The prices are ridiculously high. I bought a new japanese ICE car 4 years ago from the quarter of the price of a similar sized EV today. The price of the new cars is insane, both the EV and the ICE cars. The wages increased here in the last 4 years like by 30%, the price of the ICE cars doubled so 200%. The price of the EV-s remained the same staying very far away from being affordable. The EU achieved that not just the EV-s are not affordable, but the ICE cars too. Is this was their goal, average people no to buy new cars anymore?

[@drmap5194]

Until the European hit the price of 30 to 40k price for efficient EV then can not even sell in Europe in good numbers

[@a.m.9357]

Good. Because people are sick of unreliable cheap German cars that charge Rolls Royce money. These German brands need to go, or at least learn their lessons the hard way.

[@davidpickard9393]

The frequency of vehicles leaving the production line does not equate to how long it takes to build. The number of work stations x frequency is a closer indicator of time to build.

[@aja4191]

363kms average mileage equates to 290miles not 340miles. Problems with ev's in uk is the lack of infrastructure & the extortionate price charging.

[@TheOrangeGunner]

Funny the giga casting machines that Xiaomi is using come from Italy. Why have European car manufacturers not caught on.

[@yulusleonard985]

Because their production plant are in China. This is why they are very quick to giga casting.

[@mistermood4164]

@@yulusleonard985 why hasn’t euro oems used them

[@yulusleonard985]

@@mistermood4164 Because they need to design their cars with gigacasting in mind. Tesla only produce model X and Y. Xiaomi only have one model. Geely/smart/zeekr/galaxy/volvo use the same platform.

[@Kevin-kd6hf]

Could you pls share the source? From what i read, it's domestically developed and built with Ningbo Haitian Precision Group

[@bofomalsi4146]

Volvo's giga casting machine comes from Switzerland, still Europe though.

[@ericn3221]

Sam, In your opinion, what would happen to the US automotive industry if Tesla stopped selling Carbon Credits?

[@Harrybollox]

Energy in Germany is too expensive to do business, ironically due to shutting all the power stations for clean energy alternatives

[@nr619]

fossil is not clean..... they closed nuclear plants after fukushima ... and then the ukraine war started to make things even worst.

[@tonyatgoogle6076]

Don't forget the eu sanctions on russian fuel and the sabotaged pipeline. Yup, Germany industry is a goner.

[@DemiGod..]

They had cheap russian gas which runs their factories. Now they pay through the nose for it from america etc.

[@user-nh1yb9mk7y]

​@@DemiGod..energy prices are the same as in 2021. Check stats.

[@Khyberization]

​@user-nh1yb9mk7y Why the lie? For Germany's household energy costs 2021 €/kwh 0.16, 2022 0.19, 2024 0.28. Industrial is often a few cents more, and remember this is being subsidized by the government in Germany right now more than in 2021 so true cost is higher. When your inputs are so expensive you can't compete and this is the case now in all of Europe. Labour is a small factor. Bulgaria is only 15% more than China in terms of their labour cost index for example. But energy costs are $0.09 for industry in China and $0.31 in Bulgaria. More than 3 times China's energy costs.

[@phil488pista9]

Part of the reason is they gave up on the cheap energy. 😏

[@EMPI75]

the main problem are the EU emission standards for engines and the co2 taxes on gasoline. Many cars cant be sold anymore in the european market and a lot of car brands loose their main competence. Even the motorcycle producer begin to struggle. The euro d5+ norm ist killing their engines.

[@shanyong]

I fully agree! The EU has over committed itself on the emission standards.

[@janh-r8h]

We only need no emissions cars.❤

[@NoiserToo]

No worries, elections will decide the future of the EU - I wonder how those fired workers will be voting?

[@iankuah8606]

Net Zero is pie-in-the-sky bullshit. To achieve it civilisation would have to cancel hundreds of years of development.

[@drewsetterington9279]

They had thier time and proved that model only works when alternatives aren't present.

[@rudxde]

The rising prices of German evs can also be due BMW gaining Market share. Bmw sold 20% more evs untill Oktober than the year before. The Situation of VW ist not the same for the whole industry.

[@makis2105]

Nobody wastes 100k for a car that after 3-4 years will sell for 30k if he finds somebody to buy it. And people wait because they are afraid that new Taxes will come hurting EVs. It is quite possible to ban parking in basements or charging at home. Houses and properties got fire due to problems in Chargers.

[@ranjusranjus143]

100% guarantee taxes on EVs will be introduced: Road use tax based on annual distance travelled/covered by EV vehicle to replace the lost fossil fuel tax, and infrastructure tax to pay for the installation of public charging stations

[@dimicdragan5922]

Well, exactly, the vw top c level management made a bunch of wrong decisions... i hope they dont blame workers too like other ceos

[@ronnyb9416]

Looking forward to my new Geely in the near future.

[@lambertgiang]

As long as Germany cannot fully automated its production line then there is no way it can survive, and this also applies to Japan and Korea.

[@nicholaspostlethwaite9554]

This is the inevitable end of being able to hide behind eu protectionist import tariffs. No need to compete, or keep pay down.

[@dewfend]

My friend owns a BMW X3, after driving AITO M9, the X3 is a trash, he told me.

[@Fredoffcourse]

The clock is always ticking in the EV world, and it's the sense of urgency that ensures Chinese companies make every second count. But not in Europe it seems..

[@samwang5831]

If the German market were completely open, it would only take a couple of years. . The German auto technology is lagging far behind.

[@vincewhite5087]

What will happen is they will cut wages etc, then ask again, and again. None of this fixes the core problems.

[@philausa9629]

They can’t compete with prices because of huge UNION labor costs + huge utility costs Unions must be dissolve and workers must be a part of competition process !!

[@ericg8293]

I doubt that the labour is still 3x cheaper in China, this was the case 15 years ago, but over most of the period Chinese wages were increasing 5 to 8% a year. In such automated factories, we are not talking about basic labour as used in construction, and still very cheap with the influx of population from the countryside. These are qualified technicians and engineers. Germany on the other hand had access to cheap labour also, and favorable minimum wage conditions. This changed recently though.

[@geirvinje2556]

VW will survive. The German tax payers will have to pay. Who do you think pay for all the dividend, diesel gate and bonuses? EV's have 1/3 of the parts, compared to a fossil car. EV's will be cheaper to build, if they make the production efficient. AND, stop the subsidie insanity, that just hinder the competition, and inovation. Most of this subsidies are going to the management, stock owners, and bonuses for the bosses.

[@shaboom8787]

Just what happened in the UK in the late 60's with the motorcycle industry. Failure to adapt.

[@agibsonallan]

So 1 bar on an electric fire 1kw a kettle 3 kw electric shower 8 kw there is no chance you charge 400 kw at home

[@michael-qp9xd]

Toyota and VW last yr made each worldwide about 9 million cars. For VW workers worldwide about little less than 700,000 and for Toyota about 350,000. And Toyota workers paid much less than vw workers in Germany. No wzy given this that VW can compete and survive long term?

[@michaelmcnally2331]

Here in the Uk then BMW and Mercedes are the rare legacy automakers that actually hitting the EV sales targets set by govt for EV sales so some of them at least seem to be on track still. I also think you mean the factories in Chine roll an EV off the production line every 30 seconds, ie pops off the end of the production line. Maybe just phrasing an I knew what you meant but it wasn’t what was actually said. Apparently is 10 hours to assemble the car but they do roll a new car out every 30 seconds.

[@johnsmedley8843]

Who cares where cars are made? As long as they are good, safe products

[@leegould5306]

They’ll have to build tanks,war planes & battle ships instead like they did 90 years ago… & that turned out well didn’t it?

[@tamenyc]

Don’t think China EVs killed Germany car industry. It is the EV mandate.

[@dongeorge4037]

How can VW compete? Government intervention to "protect the industry". It won't work in the long run.

[@kennyego9264]

While I support Chinese EVs and welcome their presence in the global market, I believe their arrival is a positive development. It should push European car manufacturers, who have long overpriced their vehicles, to rethink their strategies. German carmakers, in particular, have stumbled by prioritizing profit over quality and customer satisfaction. Meanwhile, Chinese manufacturers are excelling on both fronts-producing well-built EVs and offering exceptional customer service. European carmakers have grown arrogant and complacent, assuming their vehicles remain synonymous with luxury. However, the upcoming luxury EV models from China, set to debut next year, are poised to challenge and potentially disrupt the German car industry altogether if changes aren’t made. It’s time for German automakers to head back to the drawing board. Focus on quality and prioritize customer satisfaction instead of relentless cost-cutting measures that have degraded their products. The widespread use of cheap plastics in vehicles has tarnished their reputation, with Mercedes-Benz being a prime example. Poor engine performance, plastic-laden interiors, subpar after-sales service, and frequent mechanical issues have all contributed to their decline. Worse yet, Mercedes cars seem designed to last only three years, leaving customers stranded afterward. Chinese carmakers deserve applause for their commitment to innovation and customer-centric design. Well done, and may their continued success drive meaningful competition in the automotive industry!

[@willengel2458]

Germany merely goes through its version of "Lost decades" courtesy of Empire of Lies. always wonder why the empire did that to Japan, but not Germany.

[@troll6861]

4 hours ago October bev sales numbers in Germany: Volkswagen group: 15.000, Tesla 1.600 lol Tesla, the top dog in the electric revolution, posted a dramatic 55.1% drop in sales in November, delivering just 2,103 units in Germany. Year-to-date, Tesla’s German sales have fallen by 43.6%, with only 33,669 units sold so far.

[@nr619]

nobody want a facist ev anymore specially in germany !

[@optimal9094]

The German EV market is insignificant.

[@Suburp212]

Germany is done.

[@vincewhite5087]

Also want those Indian EV’s you showcased.

[@B00kman]

I really want Europe to succeed, but the governments add so much bureaucracy, with Germany in the lead. I know the young Germans are trying to get their companies to embrace tech but it’s too hierarchical, top employees won’t listen. The ownership structure of VW is also hastening its death. Sigh.

[@george11419]

Cars are being priced off the market. In the UK alone, road taxes are due to soar in 2025. There is talk of some diesel cars paying over £5000pa. Electric cars are no-go if you live in a flat or where you have to park in the street. No wonder new car sales will slump.

[@grahamkearnon6682]

What I don't understand is why euro tech companies ain't following what a number of chinese tech firms have done and, got into vehicle production. Surely utilizing robots over union workforce is the same price in germany as in china.

[@in4ser]

What Euro tech companies are you talking about? The amount I can name is less than what I can count with one hand.