Dave Kalama interview on the Blue Planet Show- lifetime of innovation- episode 36

[@maartendeleeuw8930]

Thank you - this is great stuff. Dave Kalama = a great athlete, a deeply analytical mind with decades of experience and an ability to communicate really well. Truly words of wisdom not just for time on the water but life in general. Cheers!

[@blueplanetsurf]

Yes, plus a good sense of humor makes Dave a pleasure to listen to. 🤙🏼

[@fishcakes2]

Dave is a legend , so much positivity, this was a pleasure to watch.

[@blueplanetsurf]

Thank you! 🙏

[@deantwyman116]

Always a pleasure to hear from the leaders in the foil industry.Thanks Robert

[@blueplanetsurf]

Thank you, I appreciate that!

[@nielsvanwessem4523]

Great potcast once again, mahalo Dave for helping bringing foiling to the next level. Love those stories about the watersport history, keep us positive and stoked

[@blueplanetsurf]

Thank you, I'll keep them coming!

[@o4pureh2o]

Thank you Dave Kalama for all your energy, innovation and your infections enthusiasm for fun. Your ripples are felt around the world and have been for over 40 years.

[@blueplanetsurf]

Indeed, well said!

[@rnetsch]

Dave is always worth a listen, really liked his "open mind" remark.

[@blueplanetsurf]

Yes! 👍

[@gcammar]

I've listened to every single podcast Dave put out there, and there's always something to learn. Thank you for doing this interview.

[@blueplanetsurf]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@aquaman1]

Robert. You have the skills of a professional interviewer. You know the type of questions to ask, how to listen and how to make the interview flow smoothly. Does this come naturally for you, or do you have formal training?

[@blueplanetsurf]

Wow, thank you, that is a great compliment. I'm learning as I'm going, I'm definitely not a pro and have no training, just practice from having these in depth conversations. I had some comments previously that I'm rude and interrupt my guests too much, so I'm learning and trying to become a better listener. It helps that I love the topics, I do research before the interviews and make a list of questions to ask, so preparation is important, especially for an introvert like me.

[@fluiditynz]

I love Dave's honest discussion of his background and trials as well as successes. Interesting seeing another designer's look at design vs riding, my own skill set is definitely stronger on design than riding but riding is usually the driver of my own designs. On that DW board, definitely water line length. At 58 I'm one of those people who remember the old non planing formula, "Vmax (in knots) = square root of LWL (in feet) x 1.34". In metric: In km/h = 4.5 x (the square root of the waterline length of boat) in metres. So for example, 8.2 feet is 2.5 meters, vmax works out at 7.12 km/hr. With a high aspect thin foil of enough area, that's enough with a big paddle down a wave. Down to 6 foot, that works out at 6.01 km/hr. K1 kayaks vs surfskis are an interesting comparison. K1s are shorter and yet they can go faster- with a lot of power, I think due to less wetted area drag. Yet a long surfski will easily paddle to a good running pace with very little power. The DW boards are interesting to compare primary and secondary stability, you can go low volume but with high bow, stern and your stability can be good if the mid section is low volume. I haven't made one though! But swing weight affects yaw steering a lot. I don't have surfer background, that part is coming slow to me but if I can get there physically condition, weight wise then I'm keen. That pop-up rocking start, a lot has change in foil design over the last 2 years. Many manufacturers now using high modulus carbon, thin foil sections and then the Ludwig Prandle Wingtip twist that Albion Bowers did an awesome youtube on and that I posted to kiteforums build thread back in May 2021. Triton were first with foil wingtip twist, 3 months after I posted and about another 3 months later, Gofoil announced in 2021 with their 2022 series, not a twist,but a discrete rotation of an outer portion of the wingtips only. I did my OPENSCAD algorithm for progressive twist in feb 2022 and loved the result, my wings designs are all parametric and I just add in rules for anything else I want like tubercles. After starting my own wing journey in 2021 as a kiting alternative when we were only slowly easing out of New Zealand Covid restrictions with poor gear choices in foil size and a gutless S26 5m Naish I've now learnt a lot, all on my own foil designs and it seems like many foil designers are converging on very similar design solutions for specific conditions and types of foil disciplines. I have nothing on the waterman background of most of these guys though, some electronics, SW design, 3D design, RC jetboat and jet pump design, RC hobbies, these have been my passions as well as wind surfing and kiteboarding, winging. I feel so privileged to have been able to try all these new sports within my own lifetime. It's amazing to see all these designs advancing and kudos to Dave Kalama for his own contributions. I can relate a bit on Dave's discussion of mowing the lawn wing surfing and trying not to bust a gasket DW. My own observation here has been that lawn mowing experiences on foil are so much free-er with a fast, low drag foil. I tell people that the pull you feel on the wing while on foil is directly proportional to the drag on your foil. This is why manufacturers analyse every part of a foil kit's under water surfaces. All of it is drag but a good design is an absolute pleasure to ride with glide, stability and carve-ability all in abundance. OK.. I keep adding to this as I listen to Dave's humble descriptions of his experiences. The foils I design and make, I make to fit Axis though only the fuse is left Axis now, I made my own carbon mast to drop the drag of the 19mm thick aluminium mast, I make front and rear foils. But here was my huge mistake for a long time, I used to steer like I steered a windsurf board and a kiteboard, foot steering with roll. Then Axis brought out their Advance fuselage and I needed a new one, wanted shorter and there were some good rumours about it. And I instantly realized that yes, it's yaw was a lot freeer because the front foil is closer to the mast's verticle axis of rotation. With that realisation, my next foil designs were highly influenced, I refined outer wing thickness to make yaw even easier and I retrained myself to yaw steer. Now with Dave's frustrations with steering high aspect foils, I absolutely understand the limiting factors and the frustration. You need high modulus foils, thinned, especially outer sections. You need to taper to pointy, not impact friendly at all, but a pointy foil with bigger chord mid section is much easier to roll. A bit more mid section chord is not a problem if the foil is thin. Look at Axis spitfire, it's not really there. Code is. Armstrong is working on it, they have the right general idea. But the other thing is look at your board ends. The board ends are swing weights. A ball has the highest volume to surface area ratio, you need to look at how to reduce circumference at each end to reduce skin weight, make it rounder and save the high performance materials for the ends if your board can't be priced on all carbon. Anything increasing swing weight at the ends makes yaw steering harder, I made that mistake when I made my own wingsurf board, if I'd made it half the weight, I'd be a year ahead of my current progress, it's what had me using roll instead of yaw to steer.

[@blueplanetsurf]

Thank you for the in depth comments, I'm glad to see this interview is thought provoking. You have some good insights on design and construction!

[@fluiditynz]

@@blueplanetsurf Yes, Dave is still provoking thoughts here. I'm thinking dw isn't so unrealistic for me to get into after all, and I'm contemplating my next foil shape and size for my weight to optimise for dw.

[@jordangilbert7757]

8:40 - may I object? Small race foils can definitely be paddled up in flat water with hand paddles ;)

[@blueplanetsurf]

Ok, never say impossible but let’s say it’s very challenging to say the least.

[@jordangilbert7757]

@@blueplanetsurf Very challenging with a SUP paddle in hand too though :) There's a small number of elite paddlers that can do it with a SUP paddle (we're talking about paddling up race foils in the 600-800cm2 range), and they'd certainly find it easier with hand paddles with the same investment of time. This is truly an untested field - there's one kook in Sydney committed to it (myself), but i don't know of any other individuals that have taken on Hand Paddle as a genuine option in all scenarios (yes, I omit Bennetts). If any of the top 20 went hard at it, in the manner they worked on progressing with SUP, it would upend some ideas. There's a limiting belief here that is worth challenging.

[@blueplanetsurf]

Most of the top SUP foilers here on Oahu started as prone foilers doing short Kaikos runs where they had waves to chip in on, they never intended to use a paddle. In mediocre conditions it’s just easier to get up on foil if you are already standing up and have a paddle, that’s why they all learned to do it and never looked back.

[@rioford1]

absolute legend, Dave is such an inspirational shaper 🤟

[@blueplanetsurf]

Agreed! 🤙🏼

[@wsurfn]

He is awesome

[@blueplanetsurf]

👍😎🤙🏼

[@mikeuptegrove]

Rob, howzit?! Glad to see you’re still going man. 🤙🤙

[@blueplanetsurf]

Thank you for the comment Mike!

[@Kitefuchs]

great interview- thanks! Just wondering why you did not talk about that parawing trend? That new winging/DW style is on in maui !! greets

[@robadair]

The brm only went public a day or two ago. At the end he says this was recorded before M2O

[@fluiditynz]

Yeah, that's likely the next big thing. Every wing manufacturer is going to be looking at copying or licensing the idea or putting their own quirks on it to make something that looks original. Definitely it's lighter and probably able to be made higher performance than the Ozone flux although the design can be tweaked a lot to give different sorts of performance and to optimise somewhere between power and speed. Just the lines on it, will give that jerk of power that the guys using them will be using as an assist, trying to time it with riding off a wave tip up wind or to sync with a DW wave face going down wind. Not the danger and power of 22m of kite lines but still useful, especially as they won't pump away from the body like an ILE wing. Also, people will fly them back and forth across the wind window like a kite to get the pull of more air because they are so light. That's going to mean the shape will get optimised to avoid the water economically at the tips. The reactiveness to the stick control is going to be a subtlety that occupies manufacturers for years.

[@blueplanetsurf]

Yes, that could be the next big trend

[@lateampizza]

You inspire the world with barracuda

[@blueplanetsurf]

🤙🏼🔥👍

[@ironphil62]

👍🍺🏄🏼

[@blueplanetsurf]

Thank you Iron Phil, it was great to see you at the M2M and M2O races, you are an inspiration!