Nations Cup 2023 GRAND FINAL | China vs Canada Best of 7

[@kf167]

That was the best migration game I've ever seen

[@luc3vallets]

The 2nd game is completely insane!! The best of the tournament for me

[@TheXeeman]

i got exhausted just watching that

[@wayeb7715]

Thank you for being vague on the outcome given that this ended up as top comment

[@coolhand1620]

The 2nd game is completely insane!! The best of the tournament for me

[@coolhand1620]

@@wayeb7715let’s kiss

[@merdufer]

Game 2 felt like the turning point. Canada took out China's entire trade, and China just laughed in post imp Byzantines. I can only imagine how demoralizing that loss was.

[@Wysch]

Dave, thank you for uploading this. I don't play this game anymore, I don't watch (any) streams as much as couple of years ago (in fact, I don't at all because I have no spare time), but from time to time I catch a game or two up on youtube. And you, dear sir, are my favourite (co)caster, so this upload is a win win for me. Thank you again.

[@frankxu1365]

Lol Dave you got give some more credits to the team China, they played the most games in the tournament lol, so many rounds! I really thought it’s already game over that Canada would be champ before the game, they are so good all along the tournament and with the the default win. I guess Tim is the key here for team China, the old man is the legend!

[@lukelangman4948]

Such an amazing series. As a fellow Canadian, it really hurt to lose in the finals after such a strong tournament, but all the props to China for a well played set. Top class!

[@troydowns7748]

It feels like I've been waiting forever for this series!! GGs for both!

[@tanssi2145]

What an incredible series! Every game was outstanding!! On the edge of my seat for 3.5 hours, how often can you say that about watching anything!!?! Congrats China, Congrats Canada and thank you Dave for such a great experience

[@wastefultreemangaming4763]

Amazing showing from China and Canada here. Honestly both played amazingly well, game 2 migration was probably one of the best games from this set, maybe even the whole tourney. Im excited to see them next tournament :) thanks for your hard work for castibg this its much appreciated. You and T90 both keep us all in the loop

[@Bako9901]

Totally love that u cast and upload all the Team-Games

[@ryantuckerman2356]

Amazing! Been trying to work out how China won game 2 when it looked so lost for them. Canada were definitely on the front foot while genxbows and elephant meat shield were on the map. Defensively, Vivi & Yo were fantastic even though they took so many losses. Tim had a ball of arbs (gold units) that survived vs the genxbow mass and Canada's gold stores which helped hold the meat grinder map centre. Lyx with halb and tower spam and keeping the trebs alive that killed hera (first) then the rest of the castles. Also attacking the home islands was crucial both to kill eco, force it onto the raidable main island and deny any water trade. Again - Amazing

[@Aedanz31]

Crazy to see your casting difference between real events and everyday streaming. Good job with all the effort you put into this cast, pat yourself on the back.

[@cokeaim]

Best thing about game 2 was Dave nearly answering the question of what is Canada. Also the gameplay wasn’t bad.

[@siddheshpatwardhan4920]

that 2nd game was the craziest I have seen!

[@WillyMacShow]

Crazy good tourney

[@Dunewarrior00]

Hell of a matchup. Really good tournament!

[@bobnob4393]

Just found this channel. How have o not been recommended this before. Been watching T90 for years. Love when you're in the vids Dave

[@APolitically]

Thanx for casting, Dave!

[@watchman835]

The reason Canada lost migration is because three of them lost their home islands and the farming eco. It should not be a problem if they replace them on the main island. But the island was out of space. They should have deleted some military building for farm eco.

[@Sheppo42]

Tim's play there was clutch for sure. Canada were 150-170ish vills behind forever, but those islands crashed them to behind in vills, a mortal blow

[@breitsight3167]

so much fun to watch, thanks for casting and uploading!

[@karladajca3205]

Unbelievable Game 3 migration lol! What a comeback!

[@琳寒雨]

Amazing, Tim only got APM ~30 in game 2! He is 40+

[@NoraNoita]

If anyone says it is unfair Canada got this advantage, I want those people to play 2 full best of 7 sets so all 14 games first and then they are allowed to give their real answer.

[@cja1374]

Honestly, I haven't seen the final results yet, but regardless, I feel like starting with only 1 free win isn't enough of a reward. It should be at least 2. The main reason it isn't is presumably because there would be the potential for a super short 2 game set. Alternatively, this is a game played online rather than in person at a hired venue on a specific date, so I think there is an argument to be made that they should get no advantage and just do a typical bracket reset, but with the second set (if needed) played at a later date (because as you say two sets in a row would be ridiculous).

[@ks_movies]

​@@cja1374 While I agree to the idea and that 1 game award is insufficient, the prospect of not finding out the results the same day as "THE FINALS" of a tournament fizzles out the hype, and will reflect in weak live viewer numbers. IMO AOE tournaments cannot afford bracket reset at all. There should be a round robin with buchholz, which gives players 2nd/3rd chance as intended while making for exciting matchups. And the playoff bracket should be a knockout series. This was implemented in NAC4 to great success.

[@paradox_303]

People complained all week that 1-0 was too much kekw

[@BayWa4eva]

​@@cja1374 nah 2 is a stupidly strong advantage in bo7. they can draft more than 8 civs so in the case of a 2 game advantage fully draft 2 maps with the best civs there. you can throw away games far too easy with that. 1 game is totally ok. another possibility would be 1 game up bo7 if they haven't met before and a bo5 + previous result if they met before. so in this case it would be a bo11 with starting score 3:1.

[@cja1374]

@@BayWa4eva I mean I don't think you can argue any amount of advantage is stupid (other than from a spectator interest perspective) when they literally already beat them. But your second suggestion makes sense, I like that.

[@karladajca3205]

Well done by Team China. Their superior teamplay helped beat the formidable Canadian opposition. gg wp!

[@jerejarvinen625]

Yo is so good under pressure

[@TheRomanAoE]

Shoutout to T-West for the map scripts!

[@paradox_303]

huehue and Zetnus also helped out, but Travis done the majority of the work.

[@moriki4085]

Very nice game, thank you!

[@valkyrieloki1991]

Bro that comeback in the migration game was insane.

[@khangbob]

Tim cleared three islands lololol

[@watchman835]

Such a good day for the world that Canada lost.

[@rahilshah4965]

Chaos Pit is not Canada's home map. It is Lyx's home map. 11

[@damasinternacionales]

team fight is the future of rts

[@SkreltNL]

used to love arrows/ranged DE arrows are something special

[@ErikAkerman]

You know it's a good caster when you go from being a viper fanboy to a dave fanboy.

[@mistertallar]

Looks like the practice tournament really helped China

[@alphaaether597]

Wow! What happened Canada? I had them as the favorites to win it all. They were making this tournament look easy, cruising through at times, but when it mattered most they collapsed. Congrats to China though, they played well this game, but I can't help feeling as if Canada also played poorly which led to their loss.

[@bits_for_bytes]

Canada played “their game”

[@belisarian6429]

At least for some games its seemed like it was messy, and for instance Vivi thrives on messy. And also they pushed down/slowed Hera in some of them, which I imagine helped a lot. So in short better in terms of establishing their terms of battle. Maybe also Canada does not have such great players for team games like for instance TheMax.

[@WillyMacShow]

Spoiler Is weird you host a double elim tournament thats gone on for this many weeks and then for the final you don't actually do a double elimination. if you just keep it to best of 5s in theory it would at most be 10 games. Many grand finals in age have been Bo9.

[@bits_for_bytes]

Canada always crying

[@ks_movies]

Agreed with the problem but disagree with the solution. The problem with BO5 is we will keep on seeing the same civs and maps and lacks deep civ&map drafting strats. I prefer a long BO7. As for the solution to the problem I can't think of any. The playoffs should've never been a double elimination in the first place if you ask me.

[@paradox_303]

BO9 for a 4v4 finals is insane sorry to say.

[@Nysyarc]

@@bits_for_bytes Didn't realize anybody this ignorant and hateful even existed in the AoE2 community. That's a shame.

[@CG-eh6oe]

Game two felt like Canada overinvested into one thing over and over again. The treb stack looked impressive but are 12 trebs so much better than 6 trebs or just more expensive? And the water comeback was very nice to snipe trade, but to send two players full on water while still not controlling the home islands seems like a huge investment with very little payoff. Their Ele+genbow army was impressive but it didnt push much faster than Lyx with his few trash units. Ofc its easy to judge when spectating, but it seems that Canada could have had the game if they had been able to achieve a lot with little investment - like China did.

[@briannaherrington949]

Some wild af Nomad, jeez!

[@meanmole3212]

Dave, can we have the live chat on screen for these recordings?

[@Ddotsattack]

Love your casts Dave. In the future could you disable subscriber notifications during the cast?

[@himmelkami3308]

the second game is amazing

[@Philippe275]

omfg the second game WHATTTTT

[@wolfeloma]

sheesh never seen some insane pro gameplay

[@xingjicui]

i am chinese and i'd like to know if aoe is popular outside china?i think there are only less than 0.1million players in china :(

[@jawstrock2215]

I don't think Canada had a single dissivive military battle on Migration, they kept losing their group(and resources) over and over :/

[@frostedhams]

who is dave’s favorite canada player?

[@jerejarvinen625]

Migration game was so crazy what the hell

[@SH-dl4jk]

WHY WE DONT SEE TIM ANYMORE IN GENERAL

[@travelinman70]

I heard the winners pot for this was $55k.

[@apdj94]

1:33:32 pog moment

[@khangbob]

Bruhs, I come here to comment on the migration game and I see everyone already comments on it lololol

[@Crushnaut]

Game 2... Is this what it's like to be a Leafs fan?

[@AwesomeGermanWatcher]

HYPE :D

[@chiajencheng7062]

I feel Hera was distracted by the 1v1 with viper. I think that might have taken some team fight mentality away in the first couple games. Canada was playing very defensive first game. they never should have given up the water when water takes up half of the map just my opinion

[@Lancemoolied]

host captain Canada guest captain Yo

[@fibonachos4810]

Not that the 1 game advantage is unfair but there are plenty of examples where tournaments decided to just role with a strait 0-0 final for entertainment purpose even if they come from different stages of double elim. The last deathmatch world cup in aoe or the avp beachvolleyball series come to mind.

[@alexzuno4070]

Hello Dave, As much as I appreciate the upload and commentary. It was at times very difficult to enjoy and watch since you were very much so just focused on Canada. I understand the bias behind it, but 80% of the commentary was heavily just focused on all the positive/negative things Canada did. It was difficult to see what led to Chinas victory on each match since you had tunnel vision set on Canada. As a commentator you should focus on both teams. I understand the bias behind it but hopefully you keep this in mind for future cups. As other comments had already stated. You didn't really give China enough Credit. They didn't beat Canada because Canada wasn't playing their best. We just saw China become the best. Cheers, and again take this as reconstructive feed back.

[@ivoivic2448]

mentalist threw the 2nd game by overcommiting to galleons and canada was back and forth all the time, not focusing on 1 player.

[@joelashworth1037]

why no trash swordsmen and fish traps for malay in that second game QQ

[@Daxter250]

fish'n'chips!

[@MrARock001]

Curse my ability to predict the outcome with only the video length and the first game's result 😢

[@bits_for_bytes]

Yeah Canada should have been spotted 3 games, so they only needed to win 1

[@tanssi2145]

I try not to but by the last hour I’ve usually spoiled it, some non AOE channels I watch throw up to an hour of black screen at the end so you can’t tell, it’d be much appreciated but the AOE casters are mostly invested in other platforms maybe not worth their time

[@MrARock001]

@@tanssi2145 one thought I had was they could get into the habit of uploading big long sets as two videos, with a Part I and Part II in the title. Then, you'll always be wondering if they can tie up the series before the end of Part I. Then, if it's a sweep, and you watch till the end, they'll say "there is no Part II, obviously" but by then you've already watched the full set.

[@tanssi2145]

@@MrARock001 that’s also a very smart way to go about it I love it

[@ryanforgo3500]

Oh wait, you can only send rss if you are an age ahead? Sounds unfair to the weak civs 😅 that's super unfair actually for the weaker civs considering the u balance is not in the player's hands

[@bladactania]

This is why requiring the losers bracket team to only be down 1-0 in the grand final sucks. Canada just wasn't on their game today and it cost them. Every other team was allowed to lose a whole set without being eliminated except them. Should be a 2 day (assuming the losers bracket team wins the first set) event.

[@voidgeometry794]

the canadians are the drunkst so they will win. lets go maple syrup!

[@Lunji]

lets go canada!

[@GreenhouseKeys]

Crazy second game!

[@bits_for_bytes]

Haha Canada gets 1 free win to start the series, then gets bounced 4-0 by the country that runs their government!! Xina

[@Olagfigh]

This tournament doesn't have any sense :/ They should be playing 1vs1 on small maps and not something like this

[@FinnaBusanut]

New AOE 2 player here. It makes me want to quit. FML...

[@qcembusiness1888]

so canada won 1 series and then china won 1 series and so china wins? They may want to rethink this, I feel a 3rd set is needed.

[@Entreprenoob]

this thumbnail and title spoiled the losers bracket final for me :(

[@ppatikos]

First

[@pseudosam2458]

Definitely unfair to not give a 2 game advantage to canada since that's how many games they were ahead by when they beat china in the winner's bracket. That being said the true total score between the 2 sets was 5-4 for china, so they did win more games in the end.

[@frostedhams]

Its not unfair. Thats how tournaments do it when they have a loser bracket vs winner bracket. Sometimes they have the loser bracket win 2 series but that takes far too much time so its much more common to see the winner bracket gain 1 win off the bat. that's just how it is.

[@bits_for_bytes]

Spoiler Canada got clapped