Repertoire: The BEST and WORST Partial Beethoven Symphony Cycles

There are many conductors who planned to record the complete Beethoven symphonies, but who, for whatever reason, didn't finish the task. In this video I discuss nine (well, eleven) of these partial symphony cycles, some exceptional, others horrifying. Some of the very best Beethoven performances on disc can be found in these sets, so you'll definitely want to know about them.

[@johnoconnor683]

Poor Klemperer! He was not included in the best Beethoven symphony cycles video because he did not record the nine as a cycle; and he's not included in this talk because he did all Beethoven's symphonies. That said, he's very present when the individual symphonies are discussed. But Klemperer was so very special in Beethoven.

[@alfredolabbe]

Klemperer was absolutely fabulous in Beethoven!

[@johnrichmond1946]

And S-L-O-W.

[@JamesCello]

And at least he got mentioned, right? Unlike Lenny B.??

[@poturbg8698]

I really like Reiner's Beethoven--the Pastoral in particular was surprisingly affectionate. But Giulini deserves the Scarf.

[@methanatmer]

I can only agree with that. Fortunately, all 9 symphonies with Reiner are available, if you consider the Pittsburgh recordings and the 4th from the CSO archive.

[@chriswrenn6732]

Thank you Mr. Hurwitz. I'm new to your channel & have been encouraged & moved. I had many of these unfinished Beethoven cycles before I found your channel--including Barshai's (because of Shostakovich's praise of his friend's cycle, which he compared to Klemperer's, and I really wanted to hear how a great Russian conductor & a Russian orchestra played Beethoven's symphonies). And on your recimmendation I've purchased Markevitch's Beethoven cycle. And also the complete cycles by Klemperer & Wand. I've 2 confessions to make. I need to listen more to classical music, which I loved all my life. Your always encouraging reminder to "Keep on listening" at the end of every video is important for me to hear. My 2nd confession is I took a risk, and bought an unfinished Beethoven cycle by Martinon, based on your positive reviews of his insights & musicianship. So that'll be coming sometime soon. Thank you so much again.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

You are very welcome! Thank YOU for watching and listening.

[@geraldmartin7703]

Thank you for a fascinating, educative talk. The obsession with conductor complete symphony cycle recordings is likely driven more by understandable commercial and collector demands than conductor interest or preparedness. I remember reading that Kertesz did not like Dvorak's first symphony and recorded it only because he was contractually committed to Decca to do a complete Dvorak symphony cycle.

[@lukesinclair4337]

Thank you so much David. You've seen my comments in the past about my love for Fricsay's Beethoven. One of the best things you've introduced me to.

[@musiconrecord6724]

Very excited about those Markevitch boxes..... So glad you mentioned Keilberth - that box set is full of unexpected treasures, including the Beethoven. I have been a huge fan of Friscay since I discovered his Bartok recordings years ago. I have both the DG complete recordings "cubes", and they are a source of endless joy, including his marvellous Beethoven. One big surprise was his disc of J. Strauss - wonderful performances in lovely sound. How might our history of recorded music be different if he had lived longer.

[@tomross5347]

To anyone who doesn't collect classical records, it must seem nutty to be weighing differences in quality between numerous good versions of familiar works. Still, I often find that your strongest recommendations really do make a big difference. I recently tracked down a used copy of Michael Tilson Thomas's BSO recording of Tchaikovsky's "Winter Dreams" and Debussy's "Images". Others make those pieces sound attractive; he makes them sound riveting. A difference like that will always be worth a lot of trouble to seek out. That's why we Keep Listening!

[@OuterGalaxyLounge]

I always feel guilty when you mention ... "The Ninth"... and I'm wearing a plain white T-shirt...

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

As well you should!

[@francoisjoubert6867]

Snap. When you started, I thought Fricsay! I then ran to the end and Tadaaa! The finale of the 7th is just ferocious. Pity he never did nr 4.

[@estel5335]

Yup. Luckily we've got the smoking, sizzling Kletzki 4th, also from a time where these recordings mattered.

[@djquinn4212]

Speaking of Fricsay, there was an app of THE 9TH that dg put out where you could following along with a scrolling score of the piece, explanations, a graphics of where the orchestra lit up when each section was playing, and you could jump between Gardiner (yuck) Bernstein Vienna, Karajan 60’s, aaaaaand FRICSAY. Fricsay is so underrated, my god what a great performance of those symphonies.

[@Rillotinspanish]

My first experiences of Beethoven's 7th and 8th were Barshai's, when I was a child, from an Italian LP classical music collection which had the rights to recordings from beyond the Iron Curtain. What memories! They were good. All the first listenings are memorable, and luckily these were also great performances.

[@artistinbeziers7916]

Thank you, for this, yet another fabulous talk. I have more than enough LvB symphony sets, so I'm not in the buying market. Nevetheless, I found this talk top-class!

[@ftumschk]

Good news about the Markevitch reissue on Eloquence. I've been trying to find an affordable set for ages!

[@jfddoc]

The Eloquence website is advertising 2 boxes...26CDs of Philips recordings and 21 of DG recordings. No release date that I could see.

[@ftumschk]

@@jfddoc Thanks. I guess it's a matter of "watch this space" :)

[@carlconnor5173]

Interjecting yourself in a shirt and tie for the 9th is very clever, David.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It was the easiest way.

[@JohnDoe-jt4ju]

I liked Keilberth's early mono recording of Smetana's Moldau and "From Bohemia's Meadows and Forests" on a 10 in. Telefunken LP. Moldau slow "Water Nymphs" section has a mesmerizing dreaminess to it.

[@matthewrippingsby5384]

I'm excited by what you say about Giulini, Dave. As you may know if my posts have ever penetrated, I am a fan of the very, very slow Böhm Ninth, precisely because although it isn't played for tension, even the interminable pseudo-operatic hell of that finale, gains a strange energy when you take it on its own terms. Like the Eliot Gardiner Berlioz Messe Sollennelle, it grows on you. Böhm is attempting a statement from eternity, and, when I was 18, I accepted his pretensions. Now I know he conducted a performance in Nazi Germany, I get why he went Cosmic in scope. Giulini sounds like he's done the same, more or less. Except with less cultural shame to replace with relief and awe.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Does "cosmic" always have to be slow?

[@matthewrippingsby5384]

​@DavesClassicalGuide Good question: not necessarily, perhaps, but, in a way, yes? For, the listener dwells in long notes - mediaeval music is addicted to them. Nevertheless, it was disconcerting to find obvious points of tension taken absurdly slowly - but, I consulted the Penguin guide and prepared to learn the symphony. On my first listening, I got fruitfully lost in its transformative vastness and gradually came to understand what I was hearing. I thought it certainly deserved both the Penguin assessment and the slow treatment! And, perhaps it does!

[@nickhamshaw1234]

Presumably the Ninth 👔 is so often missing because of the expense? In all cases, though, you’d imagine there will be archive performance that could potentially be sourced.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Love the tie.

[@nickhamshaw1234]

David Hurwitz you set the rules, we follow the rules!

[@martinhaub6828]

Remember the Beethoven symphonies on PBS from Detroit with Dorati conducting? It's been 40 years since I've seen them, but I was very impressed back then. I wonder who owns the recordings? Or have they ever been on DVD and I missed them?

[@bbailey7818]

Fun survey. I love Markevitch, though I could never forgive the inexplicable cuts he made in his EMI stereo Nutcracker Suite. Beecham was famous for his iconoclastic avoidance of Austro-German pieces that everybody else felt they HAD to conduct. But he did record #2 (three times! the one LVB symphony the other conductors neglect, leave it to Tommy) and 3, 4, 6, 7, 8. There are extant a live 5 and 9. But never touched 1. #2 (the second LPO recording) is fantastic and #7 has a wild finale, best heard live. Generally though he's best in even-numbered Beethoven despite a disappointing 4th..

[@fernandoleon7606]

I haven't heard it in a long time, but I've got several Beethoven symphonies with Cluytens and Berlin Phil that as far as I can remember they were worth to listen to.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

That was not a partial cycle.

[@fernandoleon7606]

@@DavesClassicalGuide It surely wasn't. I can't even remember how many of them were. Sorry!! :)

[@fred6904]

Hello Dave! I would like to ask you to consider to make a talk about the Anthony Collins box on Eloquence. Best wishes Fred.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

When I receive it, I may.

[@Dan474834]

Love the content. However I think you should focus on the type of videos where you introduce pieces to new audiences with commentary. Recordings reviews are a very niche thing and presuppose a specialized audience.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I don't see this as a zero-sum game. I can do both.

[@JohnWilmot1179]

Celi was of course insane 🤭

[@johnrichmond1946]

I am sorry that Monteux didn't do...THE NINTH...as part of his Decca/RCA/Whatever series with the Vienna Phil and the LSO. THE NINTH that came out on Westminster circa 1962 was not so fortunate. (So perhaps it's just the ninth, no caps.)

[@jamescpotter]

David, I realize this is a PARTIAL review so please allow me to deviate for one moment and ask you about the COMPLETE Gardiner cycle. I bought it a few years ago and it sounds splendid. Yet I lack your discriminating ear. What say you? And I appreciate your (the 9th!) a la Firesign Theater interjections!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I've discussed it several times, most recently the video on the Gardiner complete Archiv recordings.

[@jamescpotter]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Mea Culpa for not knowing this. Will check it out

[@ahartify]

I would be interested in your ideas on the 'correct' tempi as indicated by the metronome markings for Beethoven's symphonies. I have read some of the scholarly papers on Beethoven's indications and the whole argument of whether the markings should be taken seriously or not is driving me nuts! Perhaps you could give a little talk on this matter.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Simple. They are useful (but wholly unnecessary) as a guide to tempo relationships, but worthless in absolute terms. The constant bickering over them is stupid and pointless. End of discussion.

[@ahartify]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks! Same for me.

[@alanmcginn4796]

Do we know the timing on the release of the Markevitch DG and Philips legacy boxes?

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

About a month, I believe.

[@saltyfellow]

Hi David! Thank you so much!! I have an idea... mabe a super stupid idea. Tu make the "supra symphony" for instance the "supra beethoven 1" with the 1st movement of kletzki, the 2nd of baremboin...etc Sorry if it's the worst idea in the world!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not the worst, but I won't do it just now. I really think performances need to be considered whole.

[@virgilmoojen7853]

Hi David. Why did Celibidache refuse to vonduct Mahler?

[@TOONACEDRELA]

Fricsay. Why am I not surprised.