Reference Recording: Dvořák's Cello Concerto

[@DeanJonasson]

Great series. I appreciate the distinctions you've made between "reference" and "best" or "historic". Very helpful.

[@josephromance3908]

I have very much enjoyed this series.

[@brossjackson]

Famously, at the Proms in 1968, Rostropovich played the Dvorak concerto on the day the Russian troops rolled into Prague to crush the Prague Spring. Rostropovich reportedly cried during the performance and waved the score afterwards in some display of solidarity with the Czechs at the end. That probably added to the urge to record and promote this performance a year or so later. This sort of thing doesn't have much to do with the quality of the recording, but does add to the "legendary" or "reference" aspects.

[@morrigambist]

The performance is on BBC Legends in tubby but fairly well-detailed mono sound.

[@bernardclarke4226]

I was there in 1968. Unforgettable. Huge tension in the audience and booing of Svetlanov and the USSRSO when they came in and at the end of the overture. When Rostropovich came in, the audience were more confused - mixture of applause and still some booing. My recollection is that he stood and said to the audience, “Listen to the music”. And they did. He, and many others, did cry. I have no memory of the second half!

[@iankemp1131]

It was a hugely ironic moment.

[@GarthAstrology]

As one of your aforementioned opera and piano music loonies, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this reference recordings series. I'm definitely a late bloomer when it comes to an appreciation of symphonic music, and these talks have helped me to build my collection so much. Thanks and keep it going!

[@GarthAstrology]

@djquinn4212 Messiaen wrote incredible vocal music. See if you can find him playing "Poemes Pour Mi" for Lise Arseguest. She sounds like a french Birgit Nilsson!

[@kellyrichardson3665]

We DO love these!!!!! And, they're infinitely valuable... what a great series! I would totally agree that this choice was obvious -- however, it was never my favorite. It wasn't the first I ever heard, but it became obvious that I had to own it. To my ears, when I first heard it, it was in a way perfect -- enough -- but I found it boring. I had recordings that I loved, and by the time I heard this one I couldn't find anything wrong with it, but it didn't move me as much as others. I agree full-heartedly that the Erato version with Seiji Ozawa was much warmer and more enjoyable, but it came out long after this one. I fell in love with Piatigorsky/Munch with Boston, but that was only because I heard him play it in person as my first encounter with the work! I was blown away, having heard nothing anything like this for cello & orchestra.

[@karlnehring6114]

When I was really first starting to get into classical music as a married undergrad finishing my degree on the G.I. Bill, one of my professors was kind enough to give us his tickets to see Rostropovich play the Dvorak with Abravanel and the Utah Symphony. However, he cancelled at the last minute and Piatagorsky took his place in what turned out to be his final public performance.

[@goonbelly5841]

This is my second favorite recording after the Fournier/Szell/BPO. Good example of how two very different styles of performance can be equally attractive.

[@johnwright7557]

Can only agree! For those in the know, Fournier/Szell replaced Casals/Szell as the reference recording! It was released also on DG around the same time as Rostropovich/Karajan and hailed in the US while in the UK they were still pushing Rostropovich/Karajan! In my opinion Fournier/Szell has not been bettered in this work and equaled by few others.

[@federicorodriguez7222]

Though I am not as "Szell adept" as you are, I really like Fournier with Szell and the Berlin Philharmonic. And about the Reference Recordings series, keep on them, it is really enjoyable really. I never put attention to a couple that you have mentioned here, so, feel free to keep doing them.

[@HoraceInExile]

Absolutely agree with this being the benchmark. I have to listen to Rostropovich's performance with Ozawa again. I've always thought that his finest was with Talich and the Czech Philharmonic, but you've pointed me to several Ozawa recordings and haven't wasted my time yet. Queyras is also a very, very fine and more recent recording. Lovely sound as well as excellent interpretation.

[@fulltongrace7899]

I have the Queyras recording which Dave recommended in his Dvorak Cello Concerto talk. Yes very good with the 4th Piano Trio.

[@geraldmartin7703]

Going by the reviews at the time, the Czech/Talich was the reference recording-- coincidentally available as a bargain Parliament L.P.

[@johanhendrix5907]

Hi Dave, I was the one with the remark about you liking to do this series. I did not mean anything negative by that remark. I also really like what you're doing here. This series has made me listen to a number of recordings I didn't know and e.g. the Szell Beethoven 3 was a revelation to me. Keep going on please.

[@dmntuba]

I've mentioned earlier how much I love this series, but extremely thankful for the history/background you give on each disc 👍

[@2134yanto]

Thanks Dave. Another excellent video. Very informative. As a relative newcomer in listening to music from this huge genre, I hope you keep producing this series of videos. Not only is it helpful to know which recordings are the reference for each work, but also knowing why, and the history behind them is really fascinating. I’ve tried to listen to all of the recordings mentioned so far. But I’ve yet to finish Solti’s Ring cycle! Thanks again

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Take your time. The videos and recordings aren't going anywhere, but thank you very much.

[@accs4]

Love this series. Please continue 🙏

[@joncheskin]

More than the Rostropovich, your video actually inspired me to listen to the Casals, which I had listened to many years ago but did not remember very well. I agree that the sonics just were not there, but it was just so much fun to listen to Casals who has such wonderful creativity and interest in his interpretation. I think the value of the notion of a reference recording is its reliability--Rostropovich/Karajan is polished in all aspects, and it is good to know which recordings have this quality. Other recordings, however, present interest in a wide variety of ways.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Exactly.

[@deVriesOP125]

Hey Dave, would you consider doing a video about single piano sonatas by Beethoven? I just got into his piano works and I’m loving it! I think it would be wonderful if you did like a “best recording” video on e.g. the appasionata and explain the work a bit.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'm thinking about it.

[@ldhdjzjjaklzjdbd6610]

Keep doing this series!! It’s great and super helpful

[@joshuacreboreads]

I also love recordings! And I love to compare them. So this reference recording series is great. I’m enjoying it a lot and I hope you keep on going!!!

[@chrisandersen5635]

Great series Dave. Thank you for all your effort.

[@AdiMaco]

I really enjoy all of your videos!

[@jamesgoodzeit214]

Glad the Ozawa/Rostropovich got mentioned - I have about half a dozen Slava doing Dvorak, and IMHO that is the best, he doesn't go overboard with emotional as he does with the others - most notable the BBC one with Svetlanov. The cello tone is absolutely stunning, so much interpretive nuance he brings to it.

[@sleepjar7013]

Dave, I absolutely love this series, and as a matter of fact, everything else you do. Please keep going with this!

[@alanwittert2169]

Oh, this one is a hoot! Couldn't stop smiling at your delight!

[@omegashore]

One of the best series! Hope you dont stop until you run out or reference records 😂 , it is great to have a “reference” to compare with when as Im listening to new recordings. Its a very enjoyable experience and Im learning a lot from your channel!

[@pauldavidartistclub6723]

I would love for you to do more videos on classical review books…the 1950’s through 70’s, and even books into the cd/label/repertoire explosion of the 80’s and 90’s. Your takes on them I’m sure would be insightful and fabulous. If you still have any even a look at some of the great music and stereo magazines! As a book and classical music lover (and someone who owned a used book shop) I’d certainly appreciate and enjoy such a series

[@marlenemeldrum7382]

Greetings dear Dave!!! Thank you so much for such Information...I have learnt a great deal....again many thanks!!! STEVEN ISSERLIS-I love his Interpretation...it is indeed a matter of taste...

[@joshgrumiaux6820]

Yes, all of Isserlis' recordings should be the reference recordings. If you know, you know.

[@raguifarag3688]

I appreciate the recordings' discussions, but I love, need, adore your analysis of the works, like what you did for many Schostakovich's Symphonies. Please do more of that if possible :)

[@tracykilleen670]

The Berlin Philharmonic"s Digital Concert Hall has a video of this performance (or a concert around the same time). What we see is Slava, perhaps the most communicative performer in the world, looking all around, and HvK, conducting with closed eyes!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Which explains how stupid it is to look rather than listen.

[@setonix850]

Oh yes, I do like your reference recordings of iconic classical pieces and I hope you continue them Dave ! I just wish I'd seen many of these videos before I purchased CDs over the years. That said I do like The Schiff/Andre Previn recording a lot. And regarding the same piece, I'd like to return to the rather controversial Jacqueline Du Pres recording. On first hearing it, I must say I hadn't heard the piece more than once or twice & certainly knew more on how to assess the skills of a violinist than a cello player. After talking to a cello player, I found out 'what went wrong' with the Du Pres interpretation as in her radical & non-conventional methods. Mind you, that cellist did say the Du Pres Elgar cello concerto recording would never be equalled. I digress ! What I particularly liked about the Du Pres Dvorak is when there is a series of fast notes that slow down to stop after the main theme in the first movement. With the Du Pres it sounds exactly like the spokes of wheel slowing and is so, so precise! Having listened to perhaps 20 other recordings in recent times, no cellist has anywhere near equalled this.

[@paulalanputnam4592]

I too love this series. And David, your style when commenting on records and everything music is fantastic for the ones that (me one of them of course) are not that classical music savvy. Thank you.

[@FREDGARRISON]

I grew up with Leonard Rose, cello Eugene Ormandy and The Philadelphians doing the Dvorak concerto. Had the LP and now the cd coupled with the Violin Concerto done by Isaac Stern and Philadelphia under Ormandy on Sony. Kind of prefer this recording and never drifted to any other. Can't teach an old dog new tricks, I guess.. Thanks Dave

[@bivmvideo]

I enjoy this series. I get to augment my collection and treasure the one I own!

[@uh1066hastings]

I'm enjoying the series, Dave. As you said in the video, it's been helpful to have an idea of what the important pieces are in the repertoire.

[@Taosravenfan]

Do you have an opinion on Yo Yo Ma’s version from the Berlin Phil in the 80s?

[@iankemp1131]

Guessed it would be this one. Never quite sure whether Rostropovich doesn't emphasise it just a little too far, but that doesn't alter the fact that yes, it is THE reference recording. An amusing contrast with the DG recording of the Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto 1 with Richter/Karajan which was intended to be a reference recording but wasn't (except in showing a clash of personalities). Wat a shame you don't like the Rococo Variations!

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No it's not a shame. There's plenty of other stuff to enjoy. Life is too short for some things.

[@iankemp1131]

@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, quite so. There is so much great music around that we can all find plenty that we love even if some pieces leave us cold.

[@e21steverino]

Very much enjoy these videos, sir😊. Interesting thing about reference recordings... they're so individualized and personal. I listened to both Rostropovich (preferred the Ozawa, mainly for the orchestra performance) as well as recordings by Heinrich Schiff and Steven Isserlis. I really liked the Isserles, btw, but none of them evoked the same excitement for me as the Eugene Ormandy/Leonard Rose performance. That is the first version of this piece I heard growing up, which as a listener, has always been MY reference recording. Ormandy's decisive control and precision of the strings, Rose's clear and cutting tone, not to mention the living stereo sound and the beautiful space it was recorded in, all still make my heart race to this day. Thank you for reminding me 😊

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

They are't personal at all. I am speaking of objective fact, and I mean that. It doesn't mean "favorite version." Most of these choices are not my favorites.

[@e21steverino]

@@DavesClassicalGuide So you're speaking technically accurate as opposed to artistically emotive? What good is a reference that gives all the notes but doesn't stir the soul? Also, you did say that the Casals recording couldn't be a reference due to the poor recording quality so obviously "reference" must be more than the right notes. Perhaps I missed an explanation in one of your other videos about what criteria you're using for reference recordings. Thanks for your response 😊

[@schubertuk]

@@e21steverino Dave has made it clear on other videos that a 'reference recording' is an industry term, about which recordings were widely marketed and widely available, and had a consensus of critical opinion - not necessarily the best recordings - nothing to do with your, mine or David's personal choice. This was news to me too. But once you get the context, it is interesting to find out what those reference recordings were.This is entirely different from 'great' recordings - which is a personal and subjective matter which may or may not have professional critical backing.

[@brianwilliams9408]

I find the latest remastering of the Casals on the Szell Warner box to be very good. Certainly, the best its ever sounded. Sure it's from 1938, so I have to take that into consideration. But definitely better than all the previous incarnations.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It still doesn’t really matter.

[@clarkebustard8672]

What was the critical consensus, or lack thereof, about the 1961 Fournier-Szell recording, also with Berlin, also on DG? It's been my reference, and I don't think I'm alone.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Everyone agrees that it's excellent. The problem is that when Rostropovich/Karajan came out, it was basically disregarded by DG (it was demoted to mid/budget price).

[@ScottHughes-n4u]

You're not alone. It's my favorite too. Szell's fiery , straightforward interpretation is ideal. Fournier's eloquence is wonderful too.

[@geraldmartin7703]

I read that Rostropovich was supposed to do the recording; but was unavailable; and so DG went with Fournier.

[@MatthewMarczi]

I just wanted to include another note of approval for his series and hope there are many more videos to come. I imagine many people stumble upon your channel looking for discographic clarity and series like these provide that. I know you're not a huge lieder person but I would like to see at least some major works from that field included at some point as well. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but RCA recently reprinted their Monteux and Horowitz box sets. Now that they're back in print, at least temporarily, I was hoping that you would consider reviewing them. I know you did multiple videos about Monteux's Decca box, but I don't seem to see one about the RCA.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I'll look into it.

[@gavingriffiths2633]

And then, still in cello world, there is the Elgar/Du Pré recording.....the most referential of reference recordings....

[@fulltongrace7899]

I have her Dvorak Cello Concerto recording and I find the cello too upfront and Barenboim and the orchestra too much in the background, which ruins it for me because the orchestral part is just as important in this concerto.

[@bbailey7818]

In 1955, the Guide to Long Playing Records (Kolodin) also still recommended the Casals as the number 1 pick because of Pablo, though the "orchestral values are but dimly recalled in this pre-war recording." He also listed, approvingly, Janigro/Dixon on Westminster and Piatigorsky/Ormandy, Columbia; both sonically superior, of course. The Casals was on RCA's LCT label "Collector's Treasure" and not full price. We're truly spoiled for choice now.

[@LyleFrancisDelp]

Oh! This one is great, but I thought the reference would be Fournier/Szell. Oh well. I can't argue with your choice.

[@Musicamansa]

Hi, Dave! Nice video! Please do a series with "the greatest studio recordings of" some Works. I think we can all agree that the downside of live recordings is that crowd noise...

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I don't think that's really necessary, but thanks for the suggestion. If it's live and noisy all we have to do is say so, but we don't need to segregate recordings otherwise.

[@jerrygennaro7587]

Yes. I'm of an age when virtually every commercial recording was done in the studio. No extraneous noise. No audience applause. Nothing against a live recording, but they don't wear well on repeated listening.

[@leestamm3187]

​@@jerrygennaro7587 Nothing against studio recordings, since there are legions of great ones. However, numerous live recordings remain my favorites, even after many years of repeated listening. A great performance is a great performance, whatever the circumstances of its recording.

[@ianpunter4486]

Anyone remember the Rostropovich/LSO/Turchak festival at the RFH in London? 9 Cello concertos in 3 concerts! Maybe it was more, I only recall going to one of them. Nearly 60 years on, I can't truly recall what I heard, though I think it was the Prokofiev , Respighi , and Sauguet. I heard both the Shostakovich concertos at the RFH, and the European premiere of the Lutoslawski at which event I also filmed an interview with MR. I had quite a fixation with the great cellist, and the DGG recording with Karajan, I simply played over and over, so much because the orchestral playing was overwhelming too. I think some people chipping in with their favourites, don't quite get Dave's point.. .that this is Ref Rec. Not necessarily the best. I love the Schiff Previn, and I recall Chuchro (?) On Supraphon fondly. I think the Reference Recording idea, means the recording deserves to be in a Hall of Fame.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

No, it means what I say it does for the purposes of this series.

[@robertdandre94101]

your video and your comment remind me of the release almost at the same time as the recording of the dvorak, of the triple concerto op 56 of beethoven by richter, oistrak, rostropovitch, direction karajan....on emi. a recording which "put on the map'' this work, and the criticisms of that time were: ''definitive recording'', ''disc which finally gives honor to this work'', ''finally the reference'' etc etc.....like what, the assertions of critics, or labels in their advertising or elsewhere and this for a long time have created ''classics'' of the record, and often they are not the best....

[@NecronomThe4th]

Damn my bet was on Szell/Fournier. Better luck next time.

[@NecronomThe4th]

@@nealkurz6503 oh my...thanks. Edited

[@ulfwernernielsen6708]

⁠@@NecronomThe4thYou are probably confusing with Kubelik . Fournier recorded twice with Kubelik 1:on EMI with the Philharmonia in late fourties’ 2: on Decca with the Wien Philharmonic Orchestra in the middle fifties. And then in early sixties he made the famous DGG with Szell .

[@NecronomThe4th]

@@ulfwernernielsen6708 No I was thinking the DGG. But I have to admit my knowledge on Dvorak cello concerto recordings is pretty limited.

[@gavingriffiths2633]

Talking of cello stuff - which we sort of are - I hope you get round to reviewing the recent Warner Erato box of Frederick Lodéon playing some marvellously varied music....sorry to go off the point....

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

It's not that recent.

[@gavingriffiths2633]

@@DavesClassicalGuide ah....but, my, it's now very cheap.....

[@matthewrippingsby5384]

All this (these other videos) is just a 'Schep Avoidance Strategy' Dave... I think we're all scrambling from that duty! 😂

[@chrismoule7242]

Not going to diasgree on this - I had it on vinyl.

[@XerxesLangrana]

Damn! I thought it would be Fournier and Szell...! Much better in my opinion.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

Not the point.

[@vladimirgeisman184]

Dear Dave, thak you so very much for all you activity on KZbin! I am your great admirer! But for my money, there is no recording of the Dvorak Concerto by Rostropovich (except the very first, with Talich), which could be called the reference. You said that the reference recording gives us understanding, what a piece really is, right? But Rosropovich's understanding (or rather - misunderstanding?) of Dvorak is so far from what is written in the score. Another tempi, another dynamics and as a result - another music! Rostropovich was a gigantic figure. Dvorak was great, but not gigantic.The "gigantism" of Rostropovich is foreign to Dvorak. More "modest" musicians like H. Schiff, P. Fournier, etc. are much closer to "what a piece really is".

[@chrismoule7242]

Have to say I disagree, but each to his own.

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

I disagree as well. You don't like Rostropovich, but his freedoms are well within what anyone would call normal interpretive parameters.

[@iankemp1131]

And can you really say Dvorak wasn't gigantic? Depends how you define it. (It was the original planned name for the Titanic's sister ship that became the Britannic ...) Dvorak was a truly great, and often underrated, composer who excelled in all musical forms (see Dave's video on this). And nobody could really argue that Dvorak's isn't the greatest cello concerto - some would suggest other comparable alternatives but there's no consensus on them. I certainly take your point that Rostropovich maybe over-emphasises some aspects. I guess you can call Wagner, Bruckner and Mahler gigantic, but sometimes life's too short for "good moments and bad quarter-hours"! And they never wrote cello concertos.

[@FREDGARRISON]

Forgot to mention that I too agree with you Dave about Tchaikovsky's Rococo Variations being somewhat boring. It's sort of weak considering it came after Francesca da Rimini and was followed by the Violin Concerto and the Fourth Symphony. Just my opinion though. I'm sure there are a few out there that enjoy the piece. C ya.......

[@DavesClassicalGuide]

They're all cellists ;)

[@FREDGARRISON]

I guess so since it was written for cello and orchestra.

[@leestamm3187]

RV is certainly not Tchaikovsky's best, but I can enjoy it once in a while.

[@iankemp1131]

Well, I have always enjoyed it and I'm not a cellist. Chacun a son gout.

[@Richard-b5r9v]

Dvorak s Cello Concerto is absolutely gorgeous sounding!

[@sandrogelsomino4970]

YOU’RE THE BEST THANKS

[@frankdominicbenke6146]

I agree the Tchaikovsky Rococo variations are indeed terminally boring.