David Chalmers - Is the 'Soul' Immortal?

[@PetraKann]

Chalmers covers almost all of the intellectual disciplines including physics, mathematics and the humanities. He also plays and performs music life. A modern day version of an ancient Greek philosopher. (perhaps the only deficiency is the inability to use a sword)

[@b.g.5869]

He's slain hundreds by the sword.

[@PetraKann]

@@b.g.5869 Indeed. I was fortunate enough to sit in on a few Chalmers lectures when he returned to Australia in the early 2000s. A very humble and gentle person, but certainly not lacking in confidence (or talent).

[@spectrepar2458]

If i was rich I’d pay to have him trained. We could crowd fund it.

[@shahrazade26]

How do you know he can't use a sword?

[@shahrazade26]

@@PetraKann I would die to be in your place.

[@normaodenthal8009]

Just love David Chalmers; I’d like him to live forever too. He’d be really rockin’ that look in the afterlife.

[@b.g.5869]

He hasn't rocked that look in over ten years. This video is over ten years old.

[@normaodenthal8009]

@@b.g.5869 He may no longer be rocking that look, however, there was, and still is, beneath that hair, a magnificent mind with a super abundance of brain cells to rub together!

[@b.g.5869]

@@normaodenthal8009 Definitely!

[@davidchalmers2504]

Eh, I don't think I should live forever.

[@normaodenthal8009]

@@davidchalmers2504 Why not? In the clip you did say: “I would love it if there was an immortal soul because …I want to live forever.” I had merely wished for you what you wished for yourself. On reflection, it would depend on the finer details of living forever. Returning to a reanimated, cryogenically frozen corpse really wouldn’t do, and I don’t particularly relish the idea of existing as a disembodied consciousness that has been uploaded onto some sort of super computer. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Perhaps even the best of circumstances would become tiresome if they had to be endured forever. But then, it’s difficult to know exactly what those circumstances might be. As Hamlet put it: there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Guess that leaves us with the question: to be, or not to be. Anyway, if living forever is no longer to your liking, may you live long and prosper! As someone who is always one L short of normal, I appreciate waywardness. It’s definitely the way to go. Best of luck with your new book. 👍

[@gyorgyor7765]

I love his 80's rock hair do, he pulls it off epically. Get him a guitar and amp.

[@b.g.5869]

He hasn't looked like that in over ten years. This video is old as dirt.

[@jerryjohnson575]

he probably has a strat and a homemade tube amp knows music theory and play great,,...... Jimmy Paige is his uncle

[@pliubumas]

There is a Closer To Truth video where Kuhn provides quotes from Chalmers in different states of his hairdo (presumably 2000s or maybe late 90s when he had an even more impressive look, then around 2010 like in this video and finally current (short hair). Fascinating to watch.

[@b.g.5869]

@@pliubumas Yeah unfortunately he's not aging well. He's just 55 but looks 65. But just 20 years ago he looked very young for his age

[@Upstreamprovider]

He is/was in a rock band, according to Wikipedia.

[@shahrazade26]

David Chalmers has been my favorite philosopher since circa 1995. Yes, I'm that old.

[@CeresKLee]

You young pup. I liked Ike in my youth.

[@lorenh763]

I loved when Chalmers helped prep Wayne and Garth for the big concert in Aurora!

[@b.g.5869]

That was nice of him.

[@markthebldr6834]

It's so close I have to check now. Thanks a lot

[@Odeeyu]

I'm just glad he made it through this without needing to beat the interviewer to death with his own shoes.

[@b.g.5869]

@@Odeeyu He tried to, they just don't show it.

[@yukip8312]

Rather than living forever in this world, I would love to let my soul travel across the multiverse and reincarnate in better world with happy family

[@MelindaGreen]

If you won't remember this life in your next one, then how will it be you?

[@MelindaGreen]

Through continuity

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Who teaches that? Not the Buddha.

[@ILoveLuhaidan]

I think every reasonable person wishes that

[@dayanidhi9391]

@@MelindaGreen Memory and memories are not who you are. The deeper you, the true you, is pure consciousness (atman) it is that subjective awareness that is aware of both memory and memories.

[@njeyasreedharan]

David Chalmers a dualist? Made my day. There is yet a glimpse of hope and a possible future for some philosophers!

[@squamish4244]

Kind of disappointed. Nondualism in Eastern philosophy is very different than nondualism in Western philosophy, and does not pose an obstacle to phyics or neuroscience. The most advanced form of Buddhist philosophy, and the only one that withstands everything you can throw at it (including the other Buddhist schools), is pure nondualism of mind, body and external world - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhyamaka

[@CeresKLee]

Did you watch this video? Are you sure?

[@TheYoungFactor]

Why does somebody accepting dualism make your day? You don't know whether dualism is true or not, so why would it "make your day'" if someone else subscribes to that belief. Why not just follow the evidence, wherever it leads independent of the beliefs of others

[@christiancastruita9053]

I am a physicist and when I began I thought everything was just something mathematical. That is, colors, pain, etc., are just mathematical patterns in the physical world. It took me a while to realize, while that's true, I cannot describe color or the feeling of pain with math. They are separate things, and somehow they are linked together. As Chalmers said, we can map our mathematical brain signals corresponding to things like color. One of the possibilities I want to explore is stimulating the brain so we experience a new color.

[@PC-Phobic-Jean-Rene]

If I read you, in _"mathematical patterns in the physical world",_ you are describing a _rational_ Universe. - Which implies Design of INTELLIGENCE. ( Yes, one of _those._ ) Plan of order, reason and intent behind patterned structured-formation, governed by discoverable LAWS. - Woven with HARMONY of numbers, as by music COMPOSITION. Evidence of Mind-CREATION! Which you, like too many, may utterly reject. The overlooked MISSING DIMENSION, as great 20th Century-educator referred to it, from which ALL material-existence springs. Perhaps there lies Key to unlock the door to the ultimate _"Unified Field Theory"._ Probably a _perfectly_ BEAUTIFUL-graceful term of expression, or precise elegant-formulation. As fine-cut diamond made by jeweler's skilled-hand, guided by keen-intelligent mind. 💎

[@degigi2003]

It is precisely because the colors and pain are mathematical patterns, that you are unable to describe them. They are numbers on different feature dimensions. And yes, if you stimulate the correct zone in the brain to generate a number on the color axis, you will experience a new color 🙂

[@ruskiessuck3337]

well you dont know the programming language of the brain right? If you did you would not sound like a school child.

[@stoneysdead689]

You can do that for about 10 bucks in San Fransico baby- just watch what you step in along the way.

[@jano8087]

The soul is the conceptualization of awareness from the ego/self perspective. Awareness resides in the heart, once it is taken to the front, thoughts become secondary, and you can feel that everything is awarness. Objective evidence will never grasp this, and this has huge implications for the individual and society.

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Gibberish no different than Freud

[@johnnastrom9400]

Great interview with Chalmers. I wish Robert would do an interview with Peter Russel or Tom Campbell.

[@darioinfini]

Stay Chalm and get Closer To Truth

[@ScarredRomeo]

Anything that is immaterial is incorruptible, so it is potentially eternal. Metaphysics is the study of being qua being, and unless you’re a physicalist, you believe that is inclusive of both material and immaterial beings. Aristotle believed the soul to be the *form* of a living thing. He also believed the mind to be immaterial because of its power of abstraction, which is its ability to know and understand concepts, the essences of things apart from their physical instantiation. It’s ironic how he says he believes in mathematics as some kind of anti-position to believing in the immortality of the soul. Math is an abstraction, and thus formal and immaterial. A paper by James Ross titled “The Immaterial Aspects of Thought” argues for this, because pure forms like mathematics or logical operators like modus ponens are determinate, whereas the physical is indeterminate. What the latter means is we can not know with certainty what formal process, e.g., algorithm, a physical instantiation of it is running due to its intrinsic physical limitations. It is not a far cry then to believe in an immortal soul from our own introspection. This is why the ancients said, “He who knows himself knows His Lord.”

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

I say Anything that is immaterial is abstract. Some examples of the abstract are movement and time and pattern and process. All abstractions are entirely dependent on a material substrate for their abstract existence. Changing the arrangement of the substrate affects the nature of the dependent abstractions including in some cases their very existence. e.g. Write a meaningful sentence in the sand and watch a wave obliterate it. All the involved sandy atoms persist but the meaningful sentence doesn't.

[@w0tch]

Whenever something in our brain changes, our mind and conscious experience change as well. If we have something eternal within us, what would it be ? I can only see changing properties in me. If there is a very slight eternal thing in me in addition to all this changing and mortal parts, I cannot accept it to be me. So maybe something in me is eternal, but I am not.

[@ade8890]

​@@w0tch I concur. I think it's possible for consciousness to be a fundamental property of the universe... And yes, that means consciousness can technically "exist in a vacuum" so to speak, but sadly this doesn't mean your soul is immortal. The closest thing I can map "soul" to is the self. And the self is constructed by conscious materials. As this structure breaks down, so does the soul/self. It's like demolishing a building. All you've done is broke it down in constituent parts. From the stars we come, into the void we go.

[@ScarredRomeo]

@chetsenior7253 What’s funny about proverbs is they are either a pithy way to condense something complex in reality into something shorter that essentially summarizes and maintains its meaning, or to say nothing at all. The irony of what you quoted is that it is a metaphysical claim by someone who obviously doesn’t understand the “first science”, and so attempts to proverbially mock metaphysics, but only succeeds in mocking himself.

[@kevinpulliam3661]

@@ScarredRomeo hey man if you don’t mind me asking, where did you learn your philosophy from? Sounds like Feser but curious if maybe you went to TAC or one of these other schools.

[@MichaelDembinski]

Qualia memory. Recall an experience from childhood - the first snowflakes on an evening before Christmas, the shops lit up and full of toys. A trip to the seaside - the bracing sea air, the sting of salt, the smell of sun cream on warm, wet bodies. Can you feel that subjective conscious experience as a memory? THAT'S your soul. There's not an atom of the adult you are now that was a part of your body when you were a child - all has been recycled since. And yet memories of the subjective experiences (qualia) remain. Have you ever experience flashbacks to such moments? Some are triggered (by smells, for example); some are bidden (have those two examples I gave above set off qualia flashbacks?) - and some are entirely spontaneous. So you have these spontaneous qualia flashbacks to events in your distant past that you can identify. I have (from time to time, but consistently across my life) had spontaneous qualia flashbacks that are entirely anomalous - from another time, another place. Typically, they feel like 1940s/1950s USA (I grew up in West London, UK). This is how I see the immortal soul; weak signals picked up by your consciousness. Much more on this over on my blog (easy to Google).

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

What's most likely: Every atom in the material substrate busy maintaining the neural discharge frequency encoded memory may be replaced but the neural discharge frequency encoded memory persists because the pattern is unaffected. The memory dwells in the dynamic pattern, not the matter per se. If the structure and/or function of the material substrate changes then the memory is affected in proportion. If change is excessive then no memory whatsoever will remain. What is a mind with no memory whatsoever? Non existent.

[@MichaelDembinski]

@@REDPUMPERNICKEL This is enlightening: "neural discharge frequency encoded memory persists because the pattern is unaffected. The memory dwells in the dynamic pattern, not the matter per se." - Wow. Profound concept. Immediately, I feel this is right. FREQUENCY the key word here. To the heart of the matter! Thanks!

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@@MichaelDembinski You're welcome. It's interesting to note that FREQUENCY is an abstract notion (and imho, one of the foundational reasons why thoughts and minds and being conscious have their famous immaterial flavour).

[@MichaelDembinski]

@@REDPUMPERNICKEL Great stuff - the idea of matter coming in and out of existence because of frequency - the Cosmic clock. Penrose posits the idea that at the heat-death of the universe, when the last atom reaches absolute zero and ceases all motion - there's no more frequency, no more time - no time = no space, so we have another Big Bang. Conformal Cyclic Cosmology

[@ALavin-en1kr]

@@REDPUMPERNICKELWhat is a computer without electrical charge? Is the electrical charge non-existent? No, just withdrawn.

[@williamesselman3102]

One of the oldest thoughts humans have.

[@undermoonlightglow]

Yep. You should copyright that.

[@ConsciousnessAwake]

Consciousness is the SOUL

[@FrancisMetal]

the soul is spiritual, the consciousness is material

[@ConsciousnessAwake]

@@FrancisMetal sure I can totally see how that makes sense, but honestly from having many out-of-body experiences I realized that consciousness is the soul. So when I do Astral Projection I have experienced what part of our mind, thoughts, emotions etc shifts out of the body during Projection. What we perceive as consciousness is what shifts out.

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Then it is impermanent

[@josephhruby3225]

D.C. . . . In my view has an incredibly well balanced realistic view and approach to this topic . Bravo.

[@isaacroberts9089]

Nietzsche and Schopenhauer both felt that any system, down to a pair of atoms, had a "will" an innate, Schopenhauer feeling that force was a "will to survive" and Nietzsche of course feeling that will was a "will to power." They described this will as being no different than the mechanical forces that moved anything and everything, but the subjective experience of it. It seems like you're basically talking about the same thing here.

[@dspondike]

Will? Or simply biology interacting with the environment? Lots of evidence for the latter. None for the former.

[@alannala4501]

The question before the title of the video is: What is the soul? Where is the soul? In what is the soul? inside the organism? Inside the physical matter? Or are you all out of those?

[@williamburts5495]

In the dictionary soul is defined as " spiritual and immortal part of a man " so the word " soul " is a term used to signify " essence " and what we are in essence are entity's that are knowers and enjoys and it is that nature of self that makes us doers of activity. It is said, " it is the spirit that moves you " but to love life you have to be aware that you exist ( I am ) and from that love flows and from that love comes the indomitable will to continue even through hardship.

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

There is no immortal part of anything, impermanence marks all things.

[@williamburts5495]

@@TheGuiltsOfUs " truth " being the property of consciousness alone and not of inert matter is a ever-persisting thing that knows no change.

[@deepaktripathi4417]

Good conversation between two old friends.

[@keysemerson3771]

Consciousness is a part of the physical world. We see it, feel it, use it, experience its affects on material objects and so forth. We need to stop being so picky and categorical. Reality is what it is. Some things remain beyond our ability to define and pigeon hole. I'm with you David!

[@mitchelweaver6801]

This episode makes it obvious that materialism is the religion of the modern intellectual class. Maybe they'll move on one day.

[@DestroManiak]

Hippy chalmers is best chalmers. His new style isnt this cool xD

[@b.g.5869]

He sold out.

[@williammcenaney1331]

I wonder what Prof. Chalmers would say about people born bellied who identified colors and material objects during near death experiences?

[@TheLuminousOne]

One day in the next several hundred years, we'll come to understand that all is spirit, we are but fragments of the infinite source and power that drives all life and existence. When we understand this, we will begin to truly love and from this, those living afar will come to share and celebrate with us, this ultimate understanding.

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Infantile nonsense

[@tommackling]

Count me in 🙂

[@thecarshowblog]

i need to go to the phoenix airport to get that t shirt

[@pappupager4832]

The Bhagavad Gita describes the soul as, “invisible and inconceivable... unbreakable, insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried.” The Upanishads also explain that the soul resides in the region of the heart. ... The soul is the spiritual spark that creates consciousness. It can also be said that it is consciousness.

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

ISKCon fool alert... 🐟 06. CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS: Consciousness means “that which knows” or “the state of being aware”, from the Latin prefix “con” (with), the stem “scire” (to know) and the suffix “osus” (characterized by). There is BOTH a localized knowing and a Universal Awareness, as explicated in the following paragraphs. Higher species of animal life have sufficient cognitive ability to know themselves and their environment, at least to a measurable degree. The brain is merely a conduit or TRANSDUCER of Universal Consciousness (i.e. Brahman), explaining why the more intelligent the animal, the more it can understand its own existence (or at least be aware of more of its environment - just see how amazingly-complex dolphin behaviour can be, compared with other aquatic species), and the reason why it is asserted that a truly enlightened human must possess a far higher level of intelligence than the average person. See Chapter 17 to understand the distinction between enlightenment and mere awakening. Three STATES of awareness are experienced by humans and possibly all other species of mammals: the waking state (“jāgrata”, in Sanskrit), dreaming (“svapna”, in Sanskrit), and deep-sleep (“suṣupti”, in Sanskrit). Beyond these three temporal states is the fourth “state” (“turīya” or “caturīya”, in Sanskrit). That is the unconditioned, eternal “state”, which underlies the other three. The waking state is the LEAST real (that is to say the least permanent, or to put it another way, the farthest from the Necessary Ground of Existence, or to put it another way, the farthest from the Ground of Existence, as explained towards the end of this chapter). The dream state is closer to our eternal nature, whilst dreamless deep-sleep is much more aalogousnalogous to The Universal Self (“brahman”), as it is imbued with peace. So, in actual fact, the fourth state is not a state, but the Unconditioned Ground of Being, or to put it simply, YOU, the real self/Self, or Formless Awareness (“sacchidānanda”, in Sanskrit). Perhaps the main purpose of dreams is so that we can understand that the waking-state is practically indistinguishable to the dream-state, and thereby come to see the ILLUSION of this ephemeral world. Both our waking-state experiences and our dream-state experiences occur solely within the mental faculties (refer to Chapter 04 for an elucidation of this phenomenon). If somebody in one of your dreams were to ask your dream-state character if the dream was real, you (playing the part of that character) would most likely say, “yes, of course this is real!” Similarly, if someone were to ask your waking-state character if this world is real, you would almost undoubtedly respond in kind. An apt analogy for Universal Consciousness is the manner in which electricity powers a variety of appliances and gadgets, according to the use and COMPLEXITY of the said device. Electricity powers a washing machine in a very simple manner, to drive a large spindle for laundering clothes. However, the very same electrical power may be used to operate a computer to manifest an astonishing range of outputs, such as playing audiovisual tracks, communication tasks and performing extremely advanced mathematical computations, depending on the computer's software and hardware. The more advanced/complex the device, the more complex its manifestation of the same electricity. Using the aforementioned computer analogy: the brain is COMPARATIVELY equivalent to the computer hardware, deoxyribonucleic acid akin to the operating system working in conjunction with the memory, the intellect is equivalent to the processing unit, individuated consciousness is analogous to the software programme, whilst Universal Awareness is likened to the electricity which enlivens the entire computer system. A person who is comatosed has lost any semblance of local consciousness, yet is being kept alive by the presence of Universal Consciousness. So, then, one could complain: “That's not fair - why can only a genius be enlightened?” (as defined in Chapter 17). The answer is: first of all, as stated above, every species of animal has its own level of intelligence on a wide-ranging scale. Therefore, a pig or a dog could (if possible) ask: “That's unfair - why can only a human being be enlightened?” Secondly, it is INDEED a fact that life is unfair, because there is no “tit for tat” law of action and reaction, even if many supposedly-great religious preceptors have stated so. They said so because they were preaching to wicked miscreants who refused to quit their evil ways, and needed to be chastized in a forceful manner. It is not possible to speak gentle words to a rabid dog to prevent it from biting you. There is evidence of Consciousness being a universal field, in SAVANT SYNDROME, a condition in which someone with significant mental disabilities demonstrate certain abilities far in excess of the norm, such as superhuman rapid mathematical calculation, mind-reading, blind-seeing, or astounding musical aptitude. Such behaviour suggests that there is a universal field (possibly in holographic form) from which one can access information. Even simple artistic inspiration could be attributed to this phenomenon. The great British singer-songwriter, Sir James Paul McCartney, one day woke with the complete tune of the song, “Yesterday”, in his mind, after hearing it in a dream. American composer, Paul Simon, had a similar experience when the chorus of his sublime masterpiece, “Bridge Over Troubled Water”, simply popped into his head. In recent years, the term “CONSCIOUSNESS” has been used in esoteric spiritual circles (usually capitalised) to refer to a far more Homogeneous Consciousness (“puruṣa”, in Sanskrit), due to the fact that the English language doesn’t include a single word denoting the Universal Ground of Being (for instance “Brahman”, “Tao”, in other tongues). The word “Awareness” (capitalized) is arguably a more apposite term for this concept. The typical person believes that the apparatus which knows the external world is his mind (via the five senses), but more perceptive individuals understand that the mind itself is cognizable by the intellect. Wise souls recognize that the sense of self (the pseudo-ego) is the perceiver of their intellects, whereas awakened persons have realized that the true self/Self is the witness of ALL these temporal phenomena. The true self is synonymous with Consciousness, or with Infinite Awareness, or the Undifferentiated Unified Field (“Brahman”, in Sanskrit). The Tao (The Reality [lit. The Way, The Path, or The Road]) which can be expressed in language is not the REAL Tao. All concepts are, by nature, relative, and at most, can merely point to the Absolute. That explains why some branches of theology use the apophatic method of discerning The Infinite (“neti neti”, [not this, not that], in Sanskrit). Also known in Latin as “via negativa” or “via negationis” theology, this philosophical approach to discovering the essential nature of Reality, gradually negates each description about Ultimate Reality, but not Reality Itself. Ultimate Reality (“Brahman”, in Sanskrit) alone is real - “real” in the sense that it is the never-mutable substratum of ALL existence. The wisest of the philosophers of ancient India distinguished the “real” from the “unreal” (“sat/asat”, in Sanskrit) by whether or not the “thing“ was eternal or ephemeral (cf. Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 1:3:28, Bhagavad-gītā 2:16, et altri). Gross material objects (such as one's own body) and subtle material objects (such as thoughts) are always changing, and therefore not “real”. REALITY is clearly seen by those self-realized persons who have experienced spiritual awakenings (which occur either spontaneously, or after a gradual process over many months or years), yet only intellectually understood by those who have merely studied spiritual topics (that is, those who have practiced one of the four systems of religion described in Chapter 16 but have yet to awaken to their essential nature). “If you remain as you are now, you are in the wakeful state. This is abolished in the dream state. The dream state disappears, when you are in deep sleep. The three states come and go, but you are always there. Your real state, that of Consciousness itself, continues to exist always and forever and it is the only Reality.” ************* “All there is is Consciousness, not aware of Itself in Its noumenal Subjectivity, but perceived by Itself as phenomenal manifestation in Its objective expression. If this is understood in depth, there is nothing more to be understood.” Ramesh S. Balsekar, Indian Spiritual Teacher. “As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clearheaded science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about the atoms this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Spirit. This Spirit is the matrix of all matter.” ************* “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.” Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck, German Theoretical Physicist.

[@pappupager4832]

@@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices what do you mean by isckon fool alert? Your lengthy paragraph is boring😂

[@skilz8098]

@@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices I appreciated reading what you wrote and appreciate the time and effort that you put into it. Yet with all of is depositions... there is only one thing that I can add or extend to this the would simplify or cover everything that you have stated... One may or may not believe in this, but here it is as food for thought... Just read Ecclesiastes Chapter 1. It's all right there!

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

@@skilz8098 Are you a THEIST? 🤔 If so, what are the reasons for your BELIEF in God? 🤓

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

anattā - Buddha

[@gregariousguru]

There is no empirical evidence that matter brings rise experience, or that natural law brings rise to consciousness. Claiming its natural law that did it is just another way of saying, "we don't know how this phenomena exist at all or why it even exists."

[@Thedeepseanomad]

Dave, I remember in the 90s I wanted to ask you: Is the soul immortal and what is the greatest heavy metal band of all time, space, mass and charge?

[@charlesgallagher1376]

Chalmer said mass and charge just as I read it in your comment. Synchronization of thought consciousness. And he just said consciousness as I was writing consciousness. Weird...or is it?

[@Thedeepseanomad]

@@charlesgallagher1376 Honesty I can not hear a word of what Dave is saying, all I hear is kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpvKo3aBnd14Z9U

[@casek6930]

Greatest HMB? That's a tough one, but the greatest song is easy. Holy Wars, obviously.

[@dericanslum1696]

...something has to exist initially to never die...

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

Is there a relationship between consciousness and information, as the human mind contains information? Maybe information is the link between physical brain and mind / consciousness.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Being conscious is a process and what's being processed is information in the form of frequency encoded analogies. Frequency encoded analogy is just another way of saying thought. The more one knows about sense organs, neurons, synapses and how language works, the more likely it is that one will discover a satisfactory theory explaining the relationship between mind and matter. IMHO naturally.

[@newdawnrising8110]

We don’t need to call it dualism. You can have an entirely physical universe with degrees of materiality. The Buddhists liken it to vibrations on a scale. Call it dual aspect monism if you like bc just like a stick is one but has two ends.

[@stoneagedjp]

"You accept what the evidence compels you to accept." But what if the evidence is incomplete?

[@markoshun]

I'd just say, when the evidence is incomplete, it is unlikely to compel. So, maintain the default position, "I don't know", and keep your eyes and mind open..

[@b.g.5869]

The evidence is never complete. The point is, you must accept what the currently existing evidence compels you to accept. New evidence can always compel you to accept something different. That's how science works.

[@b.g.5869]

@@markoshun There's no such thing as "complete evidence". Broadly speaking, there are two categories of evidence, anecdotal (which is inconclusive), and compelling. Anecdotal evidence doesn't compel you to accept anything. Non-anecdotal evidence always has implications you are compelled to provisionally accept.

[@nibblrrr7124]

​@@b.g.5869 Agreed that complete evidence or perfect certainty is impossible. Reasoning under uncertainty is the name of the game. But I'd also say that at least beyond a certain point, discrete categories like "compelling", "conclusive", "weak", "circumstantial" ... fall apart - quality of evidence is a continuous scale and depends on the hypotheses being tested. Hypotheses (models of how the world works) make predictions about what data you expect to collect. If the data you did end up collecting is likely to have occured in a world where hypothesis A is true, but less likely in a world where it isn't, that is _Bayesian evidence_ for A, and you are compelled to raise your credence (probability) in A. While this abstract framework does away with the need to make up ontologically distinct categories of evidence, note that this easily explains why a peer-reviewed meta-analysis of RCTs should be able to dramatically change your beliefs, while an anecdote you heard from a friend of a co-worker generally should not. Or why a precise scientific theory that gives you lots of obvious opportunities how it could be falsified can become orders of magnitude more likely than a vague narrative that can be adapted to any new facts ("God works in mysterious ways", conspiracy theories...).

[@normaodenthal8009]

The evidence is most likely incomplete, given that there’s an incompleteness theorem.

[@tedgrant2]

Many people like to think that we have a soul that will survive death. And no matter what happens to the body, we will always be conscious. (Admittedly, I am ignoring the effects of drugs and too much alcohol)

[@davidjohnston710]

As for consciousness, there is plenty of evidence to suggest this exists as background energetic to all material existence and our awareness. There are connection points in the brain which transmit our filtered earthly experiences (5 sensory) to consciousness, where I believe reflexive awareness actually resides. How does it do this? Do we have instrumentation that can detect this energetic, or is it beyond the vibrational rate of matter and light? Electromagnetic spectrum is perhaps only one spectrum out of multiple others. Consider the effects of anesthesia and how it shuts down this communication to consciousness - there is a complete loss of time awareness during most surgeries - one is out and back, no dream imagery either. However, an exception seems to occur when a patient in surgery actually dies (or begins to die) clinically, they often experience extra sensory experiences (like 360 degree spherical visual field of the hospital and surroundings), even under anesthesia which should have shut down the inputs from brain. Thus, it seems there is another set of enhanced senses, and continuing awareness, resident in soul consciousness, and this is the actual locus of all awareness, and likely memory as well. This expert would do well to study the NDE phenomenon and anesthesia for what they suggest. There are ways to study anecdotal reports from NDEs using statistics. We need to see what parts of the brain have activity (FMRI) while under anesthesia and without. The study of consciousness should be considered respectable, and lack of stigma. He is wise to admit that pure materialism has always fallen short without the possibility of consciousness. At least he is open, and scientifically truthful.

[@theotormon]

I really do suspect the electromagnetic field is a medium that the physical brain has figured out how to use, and that the contents of consciousness are intricate complexes of wave patterns which our neurons project into the field.

[@georgedoyle7971]

“At least he is scientifically truthful” Well said!! The fact is that it is rational to believe in things that can not be proven, justified or grounded in the “natural sciences” such as conscious observers, “truth” empiricism (sensory data/science itself), not to mention the prescriptive laws of logic and values such as morals and ethics. The fact is that these are all metaphysical presuppositions that are rational to believe and yet they can not be proven, justified or grounded in a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism that clearly excludes metaphysical realities. So what do we do? Throw away reality and rationality or persist with a materialistic paradigm that is clearly incoherent when it comes to the fundamental nature of reality because it is obviously on the threshold of exceeding its sell by date.

[@gavo007]

Anaesthetics/Psychedelics are the tools that will confirm this hypothesis.

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

And what is the authority for your assertations?

[@davidjohnston710]

@@TheGuiltsOfUs And what gives “authority” to the “authorities”? What criteria qualifies as authority? Repeatable “scientific” experimentation? Anecdotal reports of experiencers do not qualify, even when they are statistically consistent between observers? You must be evading something for personal reasons. Atheists adopt a negative hypothesis because if one can prove it wrong, then there is likely support for the corollary hypothesis. So, what criteria for proof could be offered to you? Your own NDE, or OBE?

[@TimothyTakemoto]

The difficult problem of weed: why do people who smoke it end up looking like Dr. Chalmers? The solution to the difficult problem of consciousness is provided by Ernst Mach who pointed out ‘the physical world’ is merely our explanation of consciousness. Or there is only consciousness, and science is one of best explanations.

[@ronaldmorgan7632]

He danced around the same question asked slightly different. Just say, "Yes, there are possibly things that science cannot investigate", and on to the next question.

[@Sharky1101]

“Consciousness is not physical” ==> great starting point

[@colbyd.5044]

Just say yes, you can’t study it. We don’t know how yet doesn’t mean it’s not there. Many things spiritual teachers have been saying for centuries are just now becoming “fact” in the realm of science.

[@2msvalkyrie529]

But as yet no one has claimed The Amazing Randi 's million dollars ? ! Seems very odd ?

[@mr.cosmos5199]

This is most basic important question that will govern how to live our lives.

[@ibperson7765]

Individual consciousness is constructed out of awareness. As is everything subjective.

[@messenjah71]

Consciousness is the subject-object dualism of the mind, a split.

[@ibperson7765]

@@messenjah71 Agree. Subject and object both made of awareness. Or, as they used to say, of spirit

[@IrakliEsiava-n2s]

I have evidence personal, it could be scientific and also it could be normal but to be honest, the experience I had speaks for itself

[@vitus.verdegast]

Don't confuse the "immortal soul" with your personal identity or sense of self, which is merely a temporary illusion.

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Gibberish

[@vitus.verdegast]

@@TheGuiltsOfUs Just because you don't understand a statement doesn't mean it's "gibberish." Your personality is something you construct throughout your lifetime, like an author or an actor creating a character, but what is the "you" that does this? What is the self that possess these characteristics?

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@@vitus.verdegast "What is the self that possess these characteristics"? All thoughts are about something other except for the unique thought which is about itself, that is self referential. Your self is that thought. That thought is the "you" and is immensely complex. Being a thought is of course what permits other thoughts to change you. When one learns how sense organs, neurons and muscles function one acquires an understanding of how matter is able to serve as the substrate of thoughts and the thinking process.

[@TheOneHereNow]

Space time is intertwined with consciousness. We need to understand time truly by first understanding what right here right now means. For example. I am here here now typing this just as you are here now reading it. We don’t actually every leave the now. We don’t really move from second to second. Consciousness bridges this gap between time and space.

[@cvsree]

"so far there is no evidence" What you are looking for, is the one that is looking.

[@b.g.5869]

the the the the the

[@cvsree]

@@b.g.5869 thanks for correcting 😅

[@cryptoallstars266]

I believe consciousness is a metaphysical, a natural effect of the material foundations of the human mind. he also believes in layers and layers of laws that govern nature that science doesn't currently have a good grasp about. we may need to go further into the quantum world.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Patterns and processes are metaphysical. It's within such things one will find the meaning of the word conscious. Sentences are meaningful. The meaning is encoded in the pattern, not in the atoms.

[@andybaldman]

The soul is just the unique set of information that makes you, you. It resides in a combination of both physical and bioelectrical form inside your body, and is connected to the rest of the world through information.

[@andybaldman]

@@jonc3214 Ok. Care to explain?

[@PC-Phobic-Jean-Rene]

You might be surprised to learn, that definition basically-fits the biblical definition for the "soul": THE PHYSICAL BIOLOGICAL BODY, or Hebrew word from which it is translated: nehfesh! See my comment here, for elaboration.

[@andybaldman]

@@jonc3214 Ok, I guess you can't. Thanks for playing.

[@dayanidhi9391]

We need to distinguish between 'soul' (as in mind) and pure consciousness or, as it is known in Sanskrit the atman, which means the true self, the real 'I'. It is this atman, or true self, which is the pure subjective consciousness that is aware of the mind.

[@ravibachalli206]

He almost said it but then he didn’t….to study anything in science you need a subject and an object but the conundrum is how do you study the subject !!

[@LuigiSimoncini]

same way you study the object: study other subjects and apply introspection, some indeterminacy applies, like in quantum physics

[@blakelandry]

The concept of the soul is probably the most dead idea in all of theology. We know that your brain is purely who you are. Any damage to specific regions can completely change who you are, what you believe and create a new personality.

[@con.troller4183]

It is the cry of our egos in the face of their inevitable erasure.

[@jimmybrice6360]

we dont know any such thing. what we do know is that the brain does not create consciousness. any damage to specific parts of your tv set can completely change what your screen depicts. yet the signal that your tv set is transforming does not emanate from your tv. this is an exact analogy to demonstrate why your logic is incorrect

[@blakelandry]

@@jimmybrice6360 Making a poor analogy to a TV set which gets its energy from a tv is not at all the same to a human brain. Try again.

[@jimmybrice6360]

@@blakelandry it is an absolutely perfect analogy to your failed logic. because both arguments use the exact same logic. of course you would have to understand logic, first.

[@blakelandry]

@@jimmybrice6360 Ouch, you got me. Good way to use the ad hominem fallacy to prove your point. Well played.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

Can consciousness understand the quantum wave, where science is unable to measure / observe?

[@con.troller4183]

Microtubules.

[@dhammaboy1203]

Holy Cow - I think Chalmers just converted me to dualism! What an interesting argument - I’m going to be looking into that one!

[@danlindy9670]

Charmers’ logic is basically the same as was once argued for the need to a have a “life force” in addition to physics. Now that we understand life as arising from ordinary chemical reactions, we no longer need a special force to explain it. The same is true for consciousness. Living things and conscious things are still special, they just don’t exist outside of the physical world. Dualism is an absolutely terrible idea. So much wasted time in order to keep science from competing with religious beliefs.

[@dhammaboy1203]

@@danlindy9670 yes you are referring to Bergson’s elan vital which gave rise to the Vitalliat movement. Your analogy does not hold however - as life is reducible to very specific properties whereas conciousness is not reducible to more basic properties. So Vitalism is not a meaningful comparison to the hard problem of conciousness. Dennett made this same claim and so far he has only managed to convince Dan Dennett of this position within the philosphy of mind. Yes there are problems with dualism - that is true - but by the same token this holds true for physicalism as an account for conciousness. Decades of research and billions of dollars of investment has been unable to give an account for how conciousness arises from physical matter, brain chemistry, or quantum processes. There are many theories but we have no account presently and certainly we have no evidence. Which is why scientists and philosphers are beginning to look at other solutions. Alternatives also include Idealism, panpsychism, the possibility that conciousness Is an ontological primatve and illusionism. As such - let’s leave religion out of this discussion as we can have naturalistic accounts for conciousness that don’t require conciousness to arise from neural activity or chemistry. It sounded a little like you where implying a false dichotomy there? All of these theories have their own philosophical problems - which is why no consensus is yet emerging. We really don’t know at this stage.

[@danlindy9670]

@@dhammaboy1203 You say that “life is reducible to very specific properties,” but which properties are those? Is water one? Is DNA? I do not think that we have a clear of an idea of what life *is*, it’s more that the question “what is life?” has become less interesting and meaningful as we have come to understand biological processes in greater detail. Neither life nor consciousness is just one thing that we can expect to discover and point to. Both are the result of complex interactions. Sometimes, we classify a system of organic chemistry as living, sometimes we say that that system is conscious. Both are categorizations subject to definition and are matters of degree, rather than inherent properties. I still hold that the question “what is consciousness?” will fade from being of interest to science and philosophy in the same way that the question “what is life?” already has.

[@dhammaboy1203]

@@danlindy9670 well we are going to have to agree to disagree my friend! : )

[@subhrodiprakshit8923]

@@danlindy9670 so you are now vomiting here not with a quest and understanding of truth... Rather with an anti religious unnecessary agenda about which no one is talking here.. These people are not dumbass.. They are philosophers and cognitive scientists... Who have presented and published numerous Eminent papers and joint talks and discussions... Not a KZbin anti religious... Science vs religion unnecessary fighting bringing nonsense... Today we are entering a new field of so called mordern science which is now somehow challenging various famous ideas prevalent... And there are multiple works going on in that topic.. So dont behave as jerk... If you are so smart then defy how consciousness and conscious life has aroused from non life non conscious entities and demonstrate it.. Then talk... Other wise leave that in its way of going on... If it can present us till better explanations.. Then obviously we will welcome..

[@zeeraViewer]

I couldn't watch it Dave. The commercials I had to sit through were too long.

[@francesco5581]

He really changed things ...

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

How so?

[@francesco5581]

@@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices because before him dualism was considered a taboo by science and consciousness in general was really downplayed by the reductionist materialism of the 60s and 70s. Also thanks to him consciousness is (more) free to AI silly comparisons and we have a boom of theories.

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

@@francesco5581 🐟 06. CONSCIOUSNESS/AWARENESS: Consciousness means “that which knows” or “the state of being aware”, from the Latin prefix “con” (with), the stem “scire” (to know) and the suffix “osus” (characterized by). There is BOTH a localized knowing and a Universal Awareness, as explicated in the following paragraphs. Higher species of animal life have sufficient cognitive ability to know themselves and their environment, at least to a measurable degree. The brain is merely a conduit or TRANSDUCER of Universal Consciousness (i.e. Brahman), explaining why the more intelligent the animal, the more it can understand its own existence (or at least be aware of more of its environment - just see how amazingly-complex dolphin behaviour can be, compared with other aquatic species), and the reason why it is asserted that a truly enlightened human must possess a far higher level of intelligence than the average person. See Chapter 17 to understand the distinction between enlightenment and mere awakening. Three states of awareness are experienced by humans and possibly all other species of mammals: the waking state (“jāgrata”, in Sanskrit), dreaming (“svapna”, in Sanskrit), and deep-sleep (“suṣupti”, in Sanskrit). Beyond these three temporal states is the fourth “state” (“turīya” or “caturīya”, in Sanskrit). That is the unconditioned, eternal “state”, which underlies the other three. So, in actual fact, the fourth state is not a state, but the Unconditioned Ground of Being (or to put it simply, YOU, the real self/Self, or Formless Awareness). Perhaps the main purpose of dreams is so that we can understand that the waking-state is practically indistinguishable to the dream-state, and thereby come to see the ILLUSION of this ephemeral world. Both our waking-state experiences and our dream-state experiences occur solely within the mental faculties (refer to Chapter 04 for an elucidation of this phenomenon). If somebody in one of your dreams were to ask your dream-state character if the dream was real, you (playing the part of that character) would most likely say, “yes, of course this is real!” Similarly, if someone were to ask your waking-state character if this world is real, you would almost undoubtedly respond in kind. An apt analogy for Universal Consciousness is the manner in which electricity powers a variety of appliances and gadgets, according to the use and COMPLEXITY of the said device. Electricity powers a washing machine in a very simple manner, to drive a large spindle for laundering clothes. However, the very same electrical power may be used to operate a computer to manifest an astonishing range of outputs, such as playing audiovisual tracks, communication tasks and performing extremely advanced mathematical computations, depending on the computer's software and hardware. The more advanced/complex the device, the more complex its manifestation of the same electricity. Using the aforementioned computer analogy: the brain is COMPARATIVELY equivalent to the computer hardware, deoxyribonucleic acid akin to the operating system working in conjunction with the memory, the intellect is equivalent to the processing unit, individuated consciousness is analogous to the software programme, whilst Universal Awareness is likened to the electricity which enlivens the entire computer system. A person who is comatosed has lost any semblance of local consciousness, yet is being kept alive by the presence of Universal Consciousness. So, then, one could complain: “That's not fair - why can only a genius be enlightened?” (as defined in Chapter 17). The answer is: first of all, as stated above, every species of animal has its own level of intelligence on a wide-ranging scale. Therefore, a pig or a dog could (if possible) ask: “That's unfair - why can only a human being be enlightened?” Secondly, it is INDEED a fact that life is unfair, because there is no “tit for tat” law of action and reaction, even if many supposedly-great religious preceptors have stated so. They said so because they were preaching to wicked miscreants who refused to quit their evil ways, and needed to be chastized in a forceful manner. It is not possible to speak gentle words to a rabid dog to prevent it from biting you. There is evidence of Consciousness being a universal field, in SAVANT SYNDROME, a condition in which someone with significant mental disabilities demonstrate certain abilities far in excess of the norm, such as superhuman rapid mathematical calculation, mind-reading, blind-seeing, or astounding musical aptitude. Such behaviour suggests that there is a universal field (possibly in holographic form) from which one can access information. Even simple artistic inspiration could be attributed to this phenomenon. The great British singer-songwriter, Sir James Paul McCartney, one day woke with the complete tune of the song, “Yesterday”, in his mind, after hearing it in a dream. American composer, Paul Simon, had a similar experience when the chorus of his sublime masterpiece, “Bridge Over Troubled Water”, simply popped into his head. In recent years, the term “CONSCIOUSNESS” has been used in esoteric spiritual circles (usually capitalised) to refer to a far more Homogeneous Consciousness (“puruṣa”, in Sanskrit), due to the fact that the English language doesn’t include a single word denoting the Universal Ground of Being (for instance “Brahman”, “Tao”, in other tongues). The word “Awareness” (capitalized) is arguably a more apposite term for this concept. The typical person believes that the apparatus which knows the external world is his mind (via the five senses), but more perceptive individuals understand that the mind itself is cognizable by the intellect. Wise souls recognize that the sense of self (the pseudo-ego) is the perceiver of their intellects, whereas awakened persons have realized that the true self/Self is the witness of ALL these temporal phenomena. The true self is synonymous with Consciousness, or with Infinite Awareness, or the Undifferentiated Unified Field (“Brahman”, in Sanskrit). Cont...

[@SpiritualPsychotherapyServices]

The Tao (The Reality [lit. The Way, The Path, or The Road]) which can be expressed in language is not the REAL Tao. All concepts are, by nature, relative, and at most, can merely point to the Absolute. That explains why some branches of theology use the apophatic method of discerning The Infinite (“neti neti”, [not this, not that], in Sanskrit). Also known in Latin as “via negativa” or “via negationis” theology, this philosophical approach to discovering the essential nature of Reality, gradually negates each description about Ultimate Reality, but not Reality Itself. Ultimate Reality (“Brahman”, in Sanskrit) alone is real - “real” in the sense that it is the never-mutable substratum of ALL existence. The wisest of the philosophers of ancient India distinguished the “real” from the “unreal” (“sat/asat”, in Sanskrit) by whether or not the “thing“ was eternal or ephemeral (cf. Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 1:3:28, Bhagavad-gītā 2:16, et altri). Gross material objects (such as one's own body) and subtle material objects (such as thoughts) are always changing, and therefore not “real”. REALITY is clearly seen by those self-realized persons who have experienced spiritual awakenings, yet only intellectually understood by those who have merely studied spiritual topics (that is, those who have practiced one of the four systems of religion described in Chapter 16). “If you remain as you are now, you are in the wakeful state. This is abolished in the dream state. The dream state disappears, when you are in deep sleep. The three states come and go, but you are always there. Your real state, that of Consciousness itself, continues to exist always and forever and it is the only Reality.” ************* “The ego is the identified consciousness. When the impersonal Consciousness identifies itself with the personal organism, the ego arises.” ************* “The only true meditation is the constant impersonal witnessing of all that takes place in one’s life as mere movements in the universal Consciousness.” ************* “Consciousness must first be there, before anything else can BE. All inquiry of the seeker of truth, must therefore, relate to this consciousness, this sense of conscious presence, which as such, has no personal reference to any individual.” ************* “Insofar as you keep watching the mind and discover yourself as its witness, nothing else can project itself on the screen of consciousness. This is so, because two things cannot occupy the attention, at the same moment.
Therefore, delve within and find out where thoughts arise. Seek the source of all thought and acquire the Self-knowledge, which is the awakening of Truth.” ************* “Just as the difference between the space in a pot and the space outside it disappears when the pot is demolished, so also does duality disappear when it is realized that the difference between the individual consciousness and the Universal Consciousness does not in fact exist.” ************* “All there is, is, is consciousness. That is the Source from which the manifestation has come. ...And the mind is merely a reflection of that Consciousness.” ************* “All there is is Consciousness, not aware of Itself in Its noumenal Subjectivity, but perceived by Itself as phenomenal manifestation in Its objective expression. If this is understood in depth, there is nothing more to be understood.” Ramesh S. Balsekar, Indian Spiritual Teacher. “As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clearheaded science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about the atoms this much: There is no matter as such! All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particles of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent Spirit. This Spirit is the matrix of all matter.” ************* “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.” Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck, German Theoretical Physicist.

[@b.g.5869]

@@francesco5581 Dualism remains more in the realm of philosophy than science (Chalmers is a philosopher), and will remain so until someone comes up with a testable hypothesis. What had changed is that ideas like dualism and panpsychism has become respectable in academic circles whereas or used to be taboo.

[@stephenwatts2649]

The notion of Consciousness is steeped in mystery and debate, and although it is still generally considered to be human only, there are now schools of thought emerging that believe some animals have ‘consciousness’ as well. The idea that it is an attribute unique to us as human beings arises from the fact that we have an awareness of ourselves and the world we live in, unlike most or any of the other creatures. This awareness we have forms the basis of ‘the self’. The reason for our becoming self-conscious, or self-aware, creatures will become apparent later on, when we begin exploring the nature of being human in greater detail. But this human self-consciousness is something quite different in nature to the reality of the Consciousness that lies behind and within everything to appear as the myriad forms in existence. Consciousness inhabits and animates creation and its creatures not unlike the power that flows through a computer to make it work in accordance with the hardware and software of the device. By this analogy, the specific physical characteristics of a creature’s body constitute the hardware, and the programming of its mind the software. These things are important to understand because if this conceptual ground is not firm, the model we build from here will not endure, and its potential value will be lost. What all this is pointing to is that what you really are―what we all are―is an eternal, unlimited energy source capable of creating and experiencing events. What you are is this creative source, this Consciousness. Who you are is how this Consciousness works through you to express as something unique in the world. Powerful creative Consciousness is your true and essential nature, but of course, you experience your life through the limitations of a human body, so it may not seem that you are an all-powerful being at times, or indeed ever. By its very nature, the body exists as some ‘thing’ and is, therefore, a limitation or restriction of ‘everything else possible’, to become something specific and useful―a human being. And then it must be remembered that these bodies we inhabit are a product of Mother Earth, and have developed for good reasons. Although today there are many philosophes, theories and just sheer guesses put forward to explain the purpose of our existence, none of them fully describe or satisfactorily explain the original intention for our emergence. Some bodies born into this world have, or will develop over time, physical or mental attributes that further alter the creative opportunities and experiences available to them in a lifetime. The influence of our national culture, the general culture of our times, and the impact of our upbringing by parents and other significant people also become major influences that can place limitations on our thinking and power. Other restrictions occur as a result of the pains we might experience in life, the emotions that often get buried in the body as a result, and the accumulating limited beliefs they then give rise to. There is also the concept of ‘karmic debt’ that will limit opportunities, and this too will be discussed later in the work. The state of your own evolved Consciousness is another factor affecting personal power. All these things limit the opportunities you have in life, and so it can be seen that although your true nature is something quite grand, you find yourself in very limiting circumstances. But it is important to keep perspective. Your essential nature is a free and unlimited Consciousness, a potential capable of eternal creation and experience. And this Consciousness was the reality before the Universe that we know emerged.

[@kallianpublico7517]

The soul is the will plugged into nature. Consciousness is the will plugged into Earth. Is the soul a substance, matter; or is the soul a set of boundary conditions? If the soul is material then how is it connected to us? Through consciousness? Is consciousness what emerges when we possess a soul, or does consciousness hone the soul? Does consciousness hone the soul through morality and will; or does the soul hone the will and morality through consciousness? If the soul is a set of boundary conditions then how are those boundary conditions maintained and changed? Through will and morality? When the boundary conditions change does the soul change or just consciousness? Is the soul free from death and time? Urmortal? Is that why we think we have "free will"? Does a rock have a soul? When erosion turns that rock to sand does every grain possess the same soul or do they all share a split soul? Do our thoughts have souls? Truth? Beauty? It is said that when the soul leaves the body, the body dies. When the soul leaves our thoughts do they die.

[@dspondike]

"The soul" is a mental construct.

[@kallianpublico7517]

@@dspondike A mental construct like your date of birth, or a mental construct like trees or death?

[@dspondike]

@@kallianpublico7517 : Poor analogies. There is actual evidence for those other things. No evidence for a soul other than as a mental construct.

[@kallianpublico7517]

@@dspondike What evidence is there of death? I mean all you have is an inanimate body that is no longer growing. What is that evidence of? "Absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence"? When the soul leaves the body the body dies, doesnt it? Or is death evidence of lack of intelligence? Though the brain is still there.

[@dspondike]

@@kallianpublico7517 : That is bassackwards logic and a misuse the the absence of evidence argument. Pretzel Logic!

[@stephenwatts2649]

Conversation With God - Do you remember the parable of The Little Soul and the Sun that I gave you in Book 1? Yes. There is a second half to that parable. Here it is: "You may choose to be any Part of God you wish to be," I said to the Little Soul. "You are Absolute Divinity, experiencing itself. What Aspect of Divinity do you now wish to experience as You?" "You mean I have a choice?" asked the Little Soul. And I answered, "Yes. You may choose to experience any Aspect of Divinity in, as, and through you." "Okay," said the Little Soul, "then I choose Forgiveness. I want to experience my Self as that Aspect of God called Complete Forgiveness." Well, this created a little challenge, as you can imagine. There was no one to forgive. All I have ceated is Perfection and Love. "No one to forgive?" asked the Little Soul, somewhat incredulousy. "No one," I repeated. "Look around you. Do you see any souls less perfect, less wonderful than you?" At this the Little Soul twirled around, and was surprised to see himself surounded by all the souls in heaven. They had come from far and wide throughout the Kingdom, because they heard that the Little Soul was having an extraordinary conversation with God. "I see none less perfect than I!" the Little Soul exclaimed. "Who, then, shall I have to forgive?" Just then, another soul stepped forward from the crowd. "You may forgive me," said this Friendly Soul. "For what?" the Little Soul asked. "I will come into your next physical lifetime and do something for you to forgive," replied the Friendly Soul. "But what? What could you, a being of such Perfect Light, do to make me want to forgive you?" the Little Soul wanted to know. "Oh," smiled the Friendly Soul, "I'm sure we can think of something." "But why would you want to do this?" The Little Soul could not figure out why a being of such perfection would want to slow down its vibration so much that it could actually do something "bad." "Simple," the Friendly Soul explained, "I would do it because I love you. You want to experience your Self as Forgiveness, don't you? Besides, you've done the same for me." "I have?" asked the Little Soul. "Of course. Don't you remember? We've been All Of It, you and I. We've been the Up and the Down of it, and the Left and the Right of it. We've been the Here and the There of it, and the Now and the Then of it. We've been the Big and the Small of it, the Male and the Female of it, the Good and the Bad of it. We've all been the All of It. "And we've done it by agreement, so that each of us might experience ourselves as The Grandest Part of God. For we have understood that..... "In the absence of that which You Are Not, that Which You Are, is NOT. "In the absence of 'cold,' you cannot be 'warm.' In the absence of 'sad,' you cannot be 'happy,' without a thing called 'evil,' the experience you call 'good' cannot exist. If you choose to be a thing, something or someone opposite to that has to show up somewhere in your universe to make that possible." The Friendly Soul then explained that those people are God's Special Angels, and these conditions God's Gifts. "I ask only one thing in return, "the Friendly Soul declared. "Anything! Anything, " the Little Soul cried. He was excited now to know that he could experience every Divine Aspect of God. He understood, now, The Plan. "In the moment that I strike you and smite you," said the Friendly Soul, "In the moment that I do the worst to you that you could ever imagine - in that selfsame moment.....remember Who I Really Am." "Oh, I won't forget!" promised the Little Soul. "I will see you in the perfection with which I hold you now, and I will remember Who You Are, always." That is....that is an extraordinary story, an incredible parable. And the promise of the Little Soul is the promise I make to you. That is what is unchanging. Yet have you, My Little Soul, kept this promise to others? No. I'm sad to say I have not. Do not be sad. Be happy to notice what is true, and be joyous in your decision to live a new truth. For God is a work in progress, and so are you. And remember this always: If you saw you as God sees you, you would smile a lot. So go, now, and see each other as Who You Really Are. Observe. Observe. OBSERVE. I have told you - the major difference between you and highly evolved beings is that highly evolved beings observe more. If you wish to increase the speed with which you are evolving, seek to observe more. That in itself is a wonderful observation. And I would have you now observe that you, too, are an event. You are a human, comma, being. You are a process. And you are, in any given "moment," the product of your process. The Andromeda Effect “There is a waiting room where souls go, to decide what experience they want on Earth to better understand all aspects of human existence, and when they are done they will all meet up in that waiting room before choosing another life experience.” Sadly, for most of us this is not true. We are ‘controlled’ by alien energies, referred to here as The Andromeda Effect’ - we are being kept in the dark in a cosmic zoo… We are spiritual beings experiencing a human experience. Being human is in effect a ‘prison state’. We are prisoners, trapped in a body or prison suit, on a prison called Earth. Albert Einstein said:- “A human being is part of the whole, called by us ‘The Universe’, a part limited by time and space. Man & woman experience themselves through thoughts & feelings separate from reality, a form of illusion, or delusion. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires & affection for a few persons closest to us. Our task is to free ourselves by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures & the whole of nature’s beauty.” Plato used the allegory of the ‘prisoners in a cave’ to convey the same: “When the cave prisoners are free of their bonds they would be so overwhelmed by the brightness of the light of understanding our ‘human condition’ that at first they would not be able to see a single one of the things revealed as ‘real’”. Our belief systems obscure the Truth but what we fail to realise is these belief systems are programmes instilled in us to influence & even control our behaviour. Our goal is to drag the prisoners into the light to reveal the Universal Truth. Wordpress.com The Andromeda Effect www.andromedaeffect.uk #aliens #Andromeda #extraterrestrial #einstein #plato #spiritualawakening

[@DavidAlvarado-js3qq]

I can infer that David Chalmers really enjoyed this past 4/20. On account of it being his birthday...He just turned 55.

[@sudamadas344]

Around 6:14, David says "I can examine the contents of my consciousness. I can write it down. I can parameterize it..." The question then to David is, who is that "I" you talk about that is examining its consciousness? Also, evidence of the existence of the soul, is that you once had a baby's body, then a boy, a teenager, and now an adult's body (perhaps middle age). And eventually an old body. But throughout all of this change of the physical body, you remain the same person, who is experiencing and perceiving the world. That constant, which remains the same, is the soul. There are cases where someone is convicted for a crime committed when they were say in their 20's, but the conviction and sentencing takes place several decades later. They could be in their 60's for example. Now the convicted person, cannot say that he/she was a different person then, compared to now, as the body has changed. That does not hold. You remain the same person, despite the significant changes of your physical body. So, who is that person, whom the court is sentencing?...it's certainly not the physical body.

[@Steven_Rowe]

Searching for truth is like reaching tomorrow, you never reach it, it's always today and never yesterday. Life is like driving a car that has a steering wheel but no brakes, it keeps going and we just steer, anxious about making the right decisions. If I am here, why am I here, who am I and where am I heading. Material reductionism doesn't answer the question as it is objective but minds are subjective. I think our consciousness is limited by the brains a ability to recieve the message. I think of it like this, we had analogue TV, the signal contained picture and sound,it transmitted in full colour and stereosound. You could have a black and white TV with mono sound so your not receiving all the information or you could have a colour TV with stereo sound. Perhaps our consciousness is limited by our brain being a low tech reciever. Yes it's an analogy and who really knows? Philosophers don't know and neither do atheistic scientists, we simply don't know. Cosmologists o4 atleasr some of them believe the universe came from ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, it just happened, ,well of cause and effect. It's pointless think time as it only relates to time and space. Perhaps everything is eternal intelligent energy that can manifest its self as mass and also consciousness.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Being conscious is the analogy of the body in the same way that a painting of a tobacco pipe is an analogy of a tobacco pipe.

[@todd4956]

This video is probably 20 years old. Chalmers has done many videos with Kuhn. There is a 45 minute interview with Chalmers and Kuhn on Chalmers latest book called Reality + Chalmers was flirting around with Idealism last I checked. He considers it a radical move but he is definitely thinking about it. I hope he makes the leap and I personally believe he will if he hasn't already. Quantum mechanics is most definitely pointing to Idealism and Chalmers knows this. Heisenberg rightly declared that Quantum Mechanics has settled the argument between Plato and Aristotle concerning the metaphysical nature of reality with Plato being the clear winner. Physical matter does not exist in reality just as Plato declared. Ultimately, the idealism of Plato triumphs over the realism of Aristotle. Regardless, the genius of both Plato and Aristotle have impacted the world for the better without question.

[@UtraVioletDreams]

Isn't this a better question. "Does the soul exist?".

[@johnbornjohnborn]

Your subject consciousness is the soul.

[@MontyCantsin5]

@johnbornjohnborn: If your views are aligned with particular religious beliefs that might be the case. Outwith that domain, however, there is no evidence whatsoever to support the existence of a non-physical, immortal soul. It’s purely a faith-based position.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

When people talk about a soul, does this have something to do with agency and free will?

[@johnpepin5373]

Philosophy leads science. It would appear Mr Chalmers is trying to expand philosophy so science itself can expand. Good fortune to him but the paradigm we are mired in has pretty well hardened.

[@terryblanchard5842]

You are on point. Philosophy and science are intimately connected. Philosophy drives research

[@georgedoyle7971]

Well said!!

[@stephenwatts2649]

Imagination - Process of Pure Creation The process of creation starts with thought - an idea, conception, visualization. Everything you see was once someone's idea. Nothing exists in your world that did not first exist as pure thought. This is true of the universe as well. Thought is the first level of creation. Next comes the word. Everything you say is a thought expressed. It is creative and sends forth creative energy into the universe. Words are more dynamic (thus, some might say more creative) than thought, because words are a different level of vibration from thought. They disrupt (change, alter, affect) the universe with greater impact. Words are the second level of creation. Next comes action. Actions are words moving. Words are thoughts expressed. Thoughts are ideas formed. Ideas are energies come together. Energies are forces released. Forces are elements existent. Elements are particles of God, portions of ALL, the stuff of everything. The beginning is God. The end is action. Action is God creating - or God experienced. Hang on. There's one thing more I have to tell you. You are always seeing what by your terms you would define as the "past," even when you are looking at what is right in front of you. I am? It is impossible to see The Present. The Present "happens," then turns into a burst of light, formed by energy dispersing, and that light reaches your receptors, your eyes, and it takes time for it to do that. All the while the light is reaching you, life is going on, moving forward. The next event is happening while the light from the last event is reaching you. The energy burst reaches your eyes, your receptors send that signal to your brain, which interprets the data and tells you what you are seeing. Yet that is not what is now in front of you at all. It is what you think you are seeing. That is, you are thinking about what you have seen, telling yourself what it is, and deciding what you are going to call it, while what is happening "now" is preceding your process, and awaiting it. To put this simply, I am always one step ahead of you. My God, this is unbelievable. Now listen. The more distance you place between your Self and the physical location of any event, the further into the "past" that event recedes. Place yourself a few light-years back, and what you are looking at happened very, very long ago, indeed. Yet it did not happen "long ago." It is merely physical distance which has created the illusion of "time," and allowed you to experience your Self as being both "here, now" all the while you are being "there, then"! One day you will see that what you call time and space are the same thing. Then you will see that everything is happening right here, right now. This is....this is....wild. I mean, I don't know what to make of all this. When you understand what I have told you, you will understand that nothing you see is real. You are seeing the image of what was once an event, yet even that image, that energy burst, is something you are interpreting. Your personal interpretation of that image is called your image-ination. And you can use your imagination to create anything. Because - and here is the greatest secret of all - your image-ination works both ways. Please? You not only interpret energy, you create it. Imagination is a function of your mind, which is one-third of your three-part being. In your mind you image something, and it begins to take physical form. The longer you image it (and the more OF you who image it), the more physical that form becomes, until the increasing energy you have given it literally bursts into light, flashing an image of itself into what you call your reality. You then "see" the image, and once again decide what it is. Thus, the cycle continues. This is what I have called The Process. This is what YOU ARE. You ARE this Process. This is what I have meant when I have said, you are both the Creator and the Created. I have now brought it all together for you. We are concluding this dialogue, and I have explained to you the mechanics of the universe, the secret of all life. Okay. Now as energy coalesced, it becomes, as I said, very concentrated. But the further one moves from the point of this concentration, the more dissipated the energy becomes. The "air becomes thinner." The aura fades. The energy never completely disappears, because it cannot. It is the stuff of which everything is made. It's All There Is. Yet it can become very, very thin, very subtle - almost "not there." Then, in another place (read that, another part of Itself) it can again coalesce, once more "clumping together" to form what you call matter, and what "looks like" a discreet unit. Now the two units appear separate from each other, and in truth there is no separation at all. This is, in very, very simple and elementary terms, the explanation behind the whole physical universe. Wow. But can it be true? How do I know I haven't just made this all up? Your scientists are already discovering that the building blocks of all of life are the same. They brought back rocks from the moon and found the same stuff they find in trees. They take apart a tree and find the same stuff they find in you. I tell you this: We are all the same stuff. (I and the Father are One Energy) We are the same energy, coalesced, compressed in different ways to create different forms and different matter. Nothing "matters" in and of itself. That is, nothing can become matter all by itself. Jesus said, "Without the Father, I am nothing." The Father of all is pure thought. This is the energy of life. This is what you have chosen to call Absolute Love. This is the God and the Goddess, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. It is the All-in-All, the Unmoved Mover, the Prime Source. It is that which you have sought to understand from the beginning of time. The Great Mystery, the Endless Enigma, the Eternal Truth. There is only One of Us, and so, it is THAT WHICH YOU ARE.

[@ibperson7765]

I have yet to hear a materialist/physicalist successfully explain how assertions or statements can even exist, let alone be true or false, under their model of reality. I did read about correspondence theory, but imo it doesnt explain that. Assertions are ontologically distinct from the physical. Hence they cannot make claims, including physicalism itself.

[@PetraKann]

I am flabbergasted that you can make the assertion that assertions are ontologically distinct from the physical.

[@MeRetroGamer]

​@@PetraKann You can even assert that assertions don't exist. You know, assertions of any kind ultimately mean nothing, it's just about how they can change your way of thinking about reality, and if it is a good and productive way of thinking or not. We can only aspire to try to make accurate models about some specific patterns of nature, that then we call "axioms". But the truth is that you'll never have a true model of reality, because a map never is (neither can be) the territory. Anyway, wild speculation is a dangerous path to take, so we should stick with this paradigm (science) at least until we find something better, but this doesn't mean that we should take this kind of knowledge as something guaranteed. *We shouldn't loose track of what science is about so we don't fall in the sin of making it into dogma.* Also, even if many physicists claim to be disconnected from philosophy, they ultimatelly can't. Because you always need a set of assertions in order to make logic, and mathematics is an extension of language logic, and assertions can only be made from our experiences and/or other assertions or derivations like materialism or idealism (our two fundamental rivalizing metaphysical pathways) So, you always must start with some assertion or subjective experience in order to make logic or science in any way, that's our limitation, and so we shouldn't be claiming any model to be "true", mostly if we have evidences that doesn't fit into that model (which we've had in every single model until now). Then, it's not bad to make assertions, but we should be always aware of the fact that they're just vain assertions. Farewell.

[@ibperson7765]

@@PetraKann Lol. Me too

[@TheGuiltsOfUs]

Rather it is YOU who needs to demonstrate the authority of your assertions!

[@ibperson7765]

@@MeRetroGamer Unless they are rooted somewhere beyond us, which is the big question, like in the Logos of the Greek philosophers. One of the overlooked reasons christianity took off in the ancient world was because the book of John gave a genuinely novel answer in the debate that have been happening for 500 years in Greece: did the One, the Creator or creative, also create the Logos (the laws of physics, order, representational meaning, and more, if not Greek it takes awhile just to know this word), and then use it to create the rest of the universe, or is the logos somehow inherent as part of any reality and rules/Ways by which the universe came into being. For John, or arguably probably his teacher, to assert in John that they are one entity, like my arm is part of me, was truly a new concept. (Note that “the Word” is a very limited English translation of the Greek word logos)

[@michaelcascio6346]

That's why they call it faith.

[@77AbleArcher]

That guy's mullet is immortal.

[@charlesgallagher1376]

Not a mullet. That’s 80’s Metal hair.

[@b.g.5869]

@@charlesgallagher1376 Right. A mullet is much more obnoxious. It'd be like if Robert Kuhn's hair was as it is except long in the back.

[@cesarb714]

Not sure if that qualifies as a mullet but definitely epic lol

[@moodyrick8503]

*_You Are Your Brain & Your Brain Is You_** ;* We have yet to find evidence that it's possible for a _"thinking conscience mind",_ to exist without a _"living functioning brain"._ Even though we may not know exactly how consciousness arises, it would seem undeniable that it can't occur, without a brain.

[@ptgannon1]

Many believers (in my experience) associate consciousness with soul, and this video provides very helpful information to help separate the two concepts. That said... I struggle with the idea of consciousness being another property like charge or spin. If that was the case, and if this consciousness property interacted with the things we're made of (quarks and electrons), then why don't we have unexplained interactions? Where is it on a Feynman diagram? How does this consciousness property interact? If it doesn't, then it's moot, right? If it interacts with us, then it should be interacting very strongly. If some property of consciousness is helping me to elevate my arm, then the interaction would have to be very strong to direct the electromagnetic forces that make that happen, wouldn't it? So why haven't we found it, or come up with a bunch of unexplained interactions at the subatomic level? I think it's an emergent phenomenon, but I love the debate.

[@pug9431]

If we think of a video game world, the objects that interact with eachother only appear to interact causaly, and an observer within the world would only be able to observe from the perspective that the objects are acting causaly upon eachother in a closed system. In reality, the underlying software and hardware is at work generating the game world and keeping up the appearance of a causaly closed system. This is also what is occurring in a dream world within our own minds when we sleep. If we were to say that this world is a "dream" within a "higher mind," we could begin to understand how this "conciousness property" has causal impact while it does not appear as such to us from our perspective "within the dream."

[@con.troller4183]

There is a huge problem with terms in this video and in the discussion of "consciousness" in general. They both use the same words but clearly have vastly different meanings for them. The term consciousness carries so much anthropomorphic baggage it is almost useless if you want concision. I agree that it is an emergent phenomenon. It is also a continuum, from rudimentary awareness, like the awareness an atom has for the valences of other atoms, through to full sentience. But I see no case for consciousness being a pre-existing condition nor for an immortal soul.

[@pug9431]

@@con.troller4183 I actually don't agree that conciousness is an emergent phenomenon. I take it to be the fundamental non-dual substance of existance. I do agree that there is an immense confusion and variety of the way the term is used. In my view, the universe is itself "conciousness," an innately "intelligent" (another word which carries anthropomorphic baggage) matrix or field which gives rise to both matter and mind. I don't reject materialism, instead I reject dualism of mind and mody as well as a distinction between materialism and idealism similar to the German Idealists within the Western intellectual tradition.

[@con.troller4183]

@@pug9431 I replied at length to you in a separate thread. Not sure if we can consolidate in one or the other, LOL. I will let you read that rather than reiterate here.

[@pug9431]

@@con.troller4183 Oh! My bad, I thought this was still that thread lol.

[@nameless-yd6ko]

If he knew what a Soul is, his question becomes irrelevant. What 'exists' is One Consciousness/Mind. We are all unique Perspectives (Souls) of Consciousness perceiving Mind.

[@patmat.]

I came to the same conclusion myself, that consciousness is a property of matter/energy

[@cloudoftime]

He didn't say that. He said it may be attached to that stuff, but it is its own thing.

[@skilz8098]

It's the other way around: space, matter, time, the physical is a result, product or byproduct of energy - Sound and Light... the Physical Realm became manifested by Consciousness, by Voice, by Sound when Light came into Being! The Physical Realm is a Product of Sound and a Byproduct of Sound and Light... E = mC^2. ... And God said, let there be light, and there was light...!

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@@skilz8098 "In the beginning was the word". It's in language you will find the answer to the meaning of the word 'conscious'. Check out bicameral theory to get a better understanding.

[@skilz8098]

@@REDPUMPERNICKEL I know John 1:1-5. It's one of my favorite passages. But thank you for the notion of "bicameral theory", I'll check that out.

[@skilz8098]

@@REDPUMPERNICKEL I've read it, and I can't fully agree with that. God said, "Let Us make man in Our Image and after Our Likeness... We are like God. God is Pure Consciousness. He Spoke and things came to be. In Genesis 1 it states "... And the Spirit of God moved across the waters..." In Hebrew the word for Spirit is Ruach. It literally means spirit, breath or wind. In other places throughout scripture where this word is used basically means the same, but in some contexts it has also been used to mean, sound, voice, mind. And here Consciousness which is all of those as well as self awareness, decision making, etc... is literally tied to the Spirit. It is the Spirit that Creates the Physical. Not the other way around. Our Physical Bodies does not create the mind. When the physical body dies and the heart stops beating, and the lungs stops breathing and the mind stops working, that spirit, that breath, that wind, leaves your mortal flesh body. Now, just because you are dead in the flesh, does not mean that Your Mind, Your Voice, Your Consciousness ceases to exist. This plane of existence is temporal, meaning it is temporary. The Spirit Plane, the Heaven(s) are above the earthly plane. And even in scripture the current Heavens and Earth will burn, perish and be destroyed, but A New Heavens and Earth will be born or created. The 7 days event or a weekly calendar to God is like unto 7,000 years to us. He worked and created everything in 6 Days, and Rested the 7th. It is on the 7th Day from the fall of Adam until he returns. When that Day is over, it'll all be destroyed and rebuilt. In Genesis 1 within the 6th day, God said to Man "Now be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it..." Here the word replenish is used. Replenish means to Fill Again and in terms of people or humans it would be to Repopulate. Notice he didn't say plenish or to fill or to populate, no, he said to do it again. So, this entire 7 day even, 6 days of work and 7th day of rest is a single work week of God, and they repeat. This is not the 1st Heavens and Earth and it will not be the Last. God is Eternal always has been and always will be. This is the Eternal Cycle. God is the Ultimate Consciousness. He does as he pleases and He is Perfect In All His Ways. He Speaks and it Becomes. John 1:1-5. God's word is more than just his words. It is also his Spirit and his Lifeforce and He gave us his Gift of Life! He doesn't need Us but He Wants Us to Choose Him and He Lives Within Us. Ever had that feeling like you've been here before? Some have others haven't and many call it deja vu. Maybe because we already have been here before...

[@georgedoyle7971]

““Materialism isn’t going to do the work” It’s hardly surprising because people who believe in the fundamental nature of mind and consciousness/monotheism/deism/panentheism have been trying to point this out for centuries. Everything is within mind and consciousness. It’s all that we know and have!! One of the fathers of science, philosophy and scepticism Rene Descartes demonstrated this with Cartesian doubt centuries ago. Furthermore, consciousness including the prescriptive laws of logic, empiricism (sensory data/science) and values such as morals and ethics are metaphysical presuppositions that can not be proven, justified or grounded in a strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism that clearly excludes metaphysical realities. So what’s the conclusion? We either write off consciousness, epistemology, empiricism (science itself), including morals and ethics as an illusion or we accept that eliminative materialism is an incomplete theory of reality as it leads to total gibberish when used to explain the fundamental nature of reality, existence and experience. Because everything was grounded in an absolute ontological ground of reality, experience and existence all along, that is in mind and consciousness all along. Equally, this was the case regarding the ground of reality, existence and experience because “matter” was just a useful theoretical abstraction of mind that exceeded its sell by date decades ago!!. All language is metaphor and humans have reached their limits when they attempt to use a closed system such as materialism to define the irreducible, intangible and inexplicable nature of experience, that is mind and consciousness! “Matter” is clearly a theoretical abstraction of mind not vice versa. Because these issues demonstrate the primacy of perceptual constructs over explanatory abstractions (matter) on both epistemic and ontic levels. The fact is that “you cannot go on ‘explaining away’ forever: you will find that you have explained explanation itself away. You cannot go on ‘seeing through’ things forever. The whole point of seeing through something is to see something through it. It is good that the window should be transparent, because the street or garden beyond it is opaque. How if you saw through the garden too? It is no use trying to ‘see through’ first principles. If you see through everything then everything is transparent. But a wholly transparent world is an invisible world. To ‘see through’ all things is the same as not to see.” (C.S.Lewis) ❤️

[@equinox95]

You'll never find the evidence, if you knew the truth would that strengthen your faith knowing there was life after death or would you loose faith if you knew there was nothing. Whoever set this up was smart.....the only evidence you have is faith but do you believe is the question 🤔.

[@TheProdigalMeowMeowMeowReturns]

(A) Chalmers should stop saying “as a scientist”… he’s a PhD philosopher, mot a scientist. (B) he’s never engaged the serious works and arguments of Ed Feser, David Bentley Hart, or Stephen Braude (Braude offers philosophical analyses of bizarre empirical cases that seem to support a survivalist position, but he’s fair in his assessment and criticisms).

[@georgedoyle7971]

“He never engaged the serious work” Fair points!! His standard of evidence seemed a bit biased as he commits the special pleading fallacy. Because he was happy to admit that things exist that can not be “proven” using the “natural sciences” such as consciousness so it is clearly immaterial but then suggests that the soul requires “physical evidence” for it to be a rational belief. Seems a double standard to me? I’m not question begging but doesn’t the fact that it is rational to believe in things such as consciousness even though it is immaterial and can not be proven, doesn’t this speak volumes regarding the limitations of a closed system! We can’t even empirically prove that the only things that exist are those things that can be proven using materialism as your grounding philosophy. The fact is that you can not prove, justify or ground metaphysical presuppositions such as absolute “truth”, consciousness, empiricism (sensory data/science itself), not to mention the prescriptive laws of logic and values such as morals and ethics in a strictly reductive materialism, relativism, atheism or philosophical naturalism that clearly excludes metaphysical realities. The irony is that we are all on equal footing under relativism as everything is arbitrary and ad hoc. We can all be arbitrary and ad hoc!! Equally, according to the expert linguist and brilliant cognitive scientist Noam Chomsky… “There are only two ways of looking at eliminative materialism (the idea that all things reduce to solid substance). One is that it is total gibberish until someone tells us what matter is. Until someone tells us what eliminative materialism is there can’t be such a thing as eliminative materialism and no one can tell us what matter is”. (Noam Chomsky). Furthermore, I’m not making any appeals to authority, but on the cognitive level Albert Einstein utilised a more nuanced approach and demonstrated that “matter” is nothing more substantive than the curvature of space and time which is why he completely rejected atheism for the belief in the fundamental nature of mind and consciousness. That is Einstein completely rejected atheism for the nuanced God of Spinoza/deism/panentheism. Similarly, Einstein’s closest friend Michelle Besso, who Einstein stated “was the greatest sounding board in Europe”, completely rejected atheism for the belief in the fundamental nature of mind and consciousness/monotheism (Christianity). I’m not making any appeals to authority but reality and existence and in particular the qualities of experience aren’t made of “matter” they are made of (what matters) and as I pointed out already under relativism we are all on equal footing at the very least. This is basic analytical philosophy and modal logic!!

[@jefffarris3359]

David is the best. There's always a gap I love that. Plus it goes to 11😂

[@gabpinto5633]

Everything including every single human thought will one day crunch down back to the source the singularity, we won't be aware of it but we will all be there.

[@howardcohen7784]

We may be aware of it. What does anyone know for certain?

[@gabpinto5633]

@@howardcohen7784 True i just want my little mika and my mama there, I will enter oblivion in peace if they are there. And Jesus maybe jesus if that fool is even real, lol.

[@briendoyle4680]

and now in the age of science - we know that there are no 'souls' -- or gods for that matter...

[@yakidin6330]

Science is limited to our tools.

[@briendoyle4680]

@@yakidin6330 No - it is not limited - except by the stupidity of god-believers...

[@yakidin6330]

@@briendoyle4680 of course its limited. can you hear the same frequencies as a dog or a bat ? so does that mean those frequencies don't exist ?

[@briendoyle4680]

@@yakidin6330 Childish - try proving a god... need some chuckles today... ahhaha

[@yakidin6330]

@@briendoyle4680 we can't because He isn't in our dimension. we can only prove things that are in our dimesion.

[@alanbrady420]

Love these clip where can I watch full documentary

[@b.g.5869]

This isn't even close to a full episode.

[@alanbrady420]

Where’s the full episodes mate?

[@b.g.5869]

@@alanbrady420 There's a link to over 5000 videos in the description; here it is: www.closertotruth.com/?

[@alanbrady420]

@@b.g.5869 is right thanks for that 👍🏻

[@experiencemystique4982]

Soul immortal? Depends...you..now...you identify yourself with your body? Or something else? Something superior or inferior...the choice is yours!!!!! Or free will.... usually named it

[@supremebeing3537]

Considering they are hypothesizing about the none physical i would like to know what would constitutes evidence to them .

[@TylerDaSilva522]

The first law of thermodynamics indicates that our consciousness has a possibility of being "transferred" to a new body after we die. I believe that our next life will start seamlessly after our current body dies and it will be in our same one and only observable universe.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Energy, whatever it is, may be conserved through all events and circumstances but the patterned process that IS being conscious is obviously not conserved. We don't even conserve the being conscious process over night.

[@TylerDaSilva522]

@@REDPUMPERNICKEL You cannot come to a scientific conclusion on this matter. It is not something that can be tested. Our consciousness may very well be the only thing that is conserved beyond physical death. However, we will never know. One thing that I know for certain is that all of the matter that makes up my body has been on Earth since before I was born. Countless organisms have used the same molecules that are in my body. But my singular consciousness is separate from anyone else's. With this being said, I propose that waking into another body after birth will be the next thing that we consciously experience after a physical death here on Earth, and it will be immediate. From a scientific point of view, if our consciousness is indeed eternal, we should be able to be physically reborn after death. However since consciousness is the only non-physical thing that we know of... I believe it was placed within our physical bodies by a supremely powerful force that is not physical or of the physical universe that we can measure or conduct research on. If I'm wrong, we just die. That seems really lame though lol.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@@TylerDaSilva522 There is no such thing as physical death. The laws of physics specifically state it. Every atom that is and was your physical body carries on in one physical form or another in your presence and your absence. In reality what dies is your body's being conscious process. And all it takes for that to happen is a rearrangement of a few of the atoms that constitute the physical substrate of your body's being conscious process. There is no magic or supernatural nonsense in what I'm saying. But it does demand a very firm grasp on the details of the fact that 'process' is an abstract notion. Since the 'self' is synonymous with the 'being conscious process' and the 'being conscious process' is abstract by dint of being process, you can't help but realize your self is an abstract entity. That realization may trigger an emotional response. I certainly had one. But I'm fine now. You will be too, very likely.

[@TylerDaSilva522]

@@REDPUMPERNICKEL Well you cannot prove whether or not the consciousness is a permanent or temporary thing within the universe. Don't assume that you can draw a concrete conclusion on this. It's the only thing that you cannot figure out in this lifetime.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@@TylerDaSilva522 "Well you cannot prove whether or not the consciousness is a permanent or temporary thing within the universe." Consciousness is neither a permanent or a temporary thing. There is no such 'thing' as 'consciousness'. Being conscious is a process. Process is an abstract notion. It's not a question of proof. It will strike you as self evident when you understand what I have written. .

[@NothingMaster]

The only puzzle with consciousness is the question of what it is that we are conscious of? What is the ultimate object of our consciousness?

[@caricue]

What do you mean? Do you mean who is the recipient of conscious awareness or what we are aware of? I can identify many other puzzles in any case.

[@yadurajdas532]

@@caricue read the Bhagavad Gita, it’s got answers to this questions and practical methodology

[@federicopettinicchio]

I have a theory for consciousness. Consciousness is the result of a segment of time perpendicolar with our timeline. Boom, simple, clean, logical. If time is at least bi-dimensional anything that happens on the second dimension of time happens on our timeline in time 0 so the complexity developed on the vertical line of time can be experienced on the horizontal line of time as awareness. If I run the process horizontally I do the process, if I run the process vertically I become aware of the path. I think it's a rather elegant solution for consciousness if I do say so myself.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Time is a concept only and derived from thoughts about moving objects. Movement is relative so not a property of objects. Being conscious is a process. Process is an abstract notion derived from movement. One's self is an instance of the being conscious process. Hence one's self is an abstract entity. Being an abstract entity is what allows thoughts to affect us.

[@davosholdos1253]

More like, what's a soul and how do you measure/quantify it?

[@euginium1539]

I always thought the soul is consciousness lol.

[@georgedoyle7971]

“More like, what’s a soul and how do you measure and quantify it” Well said!! The fact is that like consciousness and values such as morals and ethics you can’t measure and quantify what we mean by “soul” without reaching an absurdity otherwise it wouldn’t be a “soul” . It’s the same with the belief in an absolute ontological ground of truth, value, reality, existence and experience. If you could quantify, weigh and measure an absolute “soul” using materialism or the natural sciences” then it wouldn’t be absolute or it wouldn’t be (God) if you prefer. “That of which nothing greater can be conceived”/God (Anselmo d’Aosta). Because the measure you used to quantify and reduce it to would be greater. Furthermore, this is what’s known in philosophy as the category error fallacy. Equally, the brilliant mathematician Kurt Godel put the final nail in the coffin for logical positivism and pointed out that if you believed that you had proven the “soul” or God using the “natural sciences” then it wouldn’t be God.

[@georgedoyle7971]

@@euginium1539 “I always thought the soul was consciousness” Me too to be honest!! And you are right to point out that consciousness is obviously a property of “soul” but the fact is that David was equivocating and actually committed a special pleading fallacy here because he accepts the reality and rationality of believing in an immaterial consciousness despite the fact that it is clearly irreducible to matter (immaterial) and can not be “proven” using the “natural sciences” but then doesn’t even define what he means by a “soul” but suggests that it’s most likely that the “soul” doesn’t exist as there is no naturalistic evidence or physical explanation. Its pretty obvious that (immaterial consciousness) is understood by the majority of philosophers and scientists as a property of the concept of a “soul”. The circles that strictly reductive materialists, atheists or philosophical naturalists will run around to avoid the inevitable beggars belief!! The strictly reductive materialist, atheist or philosophical naturalists commitment to the gods of determinism and automatism condemns their myths to hollowness. All the best to you and your family and keep safe ❤️

[@samara_1990]

If you were to remake a dead persons brain down to the atom would they exist once more? If so is the soul just the specific setup the brain has while it is functioning?.

[@b.g.5869]

Nevermind the word "soul"; leave that for theologians. What you're talking about is called the pattern theory of identity. The idea is that it's not the particular instance of your brain that makes you _you_ but the _pattern_ , which is to say all all of the atoms and molecules and ultimately the higher structures they compose such as brain cells and neurotransmitters etc. It's essentially true, because the atoms we are composed of are constantly being replaced. The only thing that's persistent is the pattern. To give a simpler example, consider a single water molecule, H2O. Two hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom. That structure persists, but the particular hydrogen and oxygen atoms do not.

[@gerrycorrigan6079]

It’s like the very faintest of flicker in the simulation: some small detail that makes you suspect those that claim to know. The waltz of David Chslmers vocal intonation is almost identical to Michiu Kaku.

[@b.g.5869]

Huh? They sound nothing alike. Kaku has an American accent and Chalmers has an Australian accent.

[@courrierdebois]

Consciousness is the reality of thought and thought invented soul.

[@jasonemryss]

Conciousness has the quality of synergy, difficult to define

[@robertwatson6880]

Conciusness , self awareness of memory input and or output. Unconciusness , self unawareness of memory input and or output. Memory a data from previus or current sensory stimulus .

[@kevinw6237]

A guy who looks exactly like Descartes who talks about dualism. This is legit

[@skronked]

Rene DeRock

[@NegariaDesign]

Why people are so afraid of dying? There is nothing after life. If you want to find something beyond physical realm, find it before you die.

[@cloudoftime]

Why is it so difficult to accept emergent properties of physical processes.

[@matterasmachine]

because physical processes predetermined and nothing can emerge from least action principle for example

[@nibblrrr7124]

Well, what emerges, and how? Just saying "It's an emergent property of the system" and nothing else doesn't explain much, let alone make testable predictions. Don't get me wrong, I think the answer lies in that direction, but it needs to be fleshed out to be meaningful - without doing that, it can't be far ahead of all the competing theories. *What kind of thing is it that emerges?* Is it like anything else we already understand better? Can it play a causal role, or is it just a side effect without consequences? Can you explain the processes underlying it without the higher level of abstraction? *Under which conditions does it emerge? What is the mechanism?* Is it about information processing, complexity, self-reference, self-modeling, universal computation & Gödelian incompleteness, reinforcement learning, embodiment, encoded representations of the environment, entropy gradients, quantum entanglement, ...? *Are there fundamentally different kinds of consciousness than our own, or is it simply "more" or "less"?* Is degree of consciousness continuous, or are there sudden phase transitions? And the interesting consequences: *What is the simplest conscious system?* An average four year old human? An artificial neural net with a million nodes? A nematode? A thermostat? An electron? *What abilities can systems have without becoming conscious?* Could you build AGI that isn't conscious? I think these are all important questions, and having an answer to even just one of them would be a huge step. Theories need to take stances on them, and there are attempts to build theories that actually make testable predictions, but I think there's still a long way ahead. So yeah, that's the most interesting answer to your question I know. Another is that apparently some people have this desire to be something more intuitively understandable or flattering than being a side effect of the regulation needs of apes, as implemented on meat computers, which in turn arose as local maxima in the competition between molecular replicators to harvest negentropy more efficiently from the surface of some rock floating in space? But that's a different story... :^)

[@matterasmachine]

@@nibblrrr7124 consciousness is just status of algorithm execution. This way everything is conscious. As world is algorithms based.

[@cloudoftime]

@@nibblrrr7124 Consciousness emerges. It's just the interaction of all these physical things. It's just the interaction. The point is, you don't need to posit some kind of dualism just because there isn't sufficient explanation for everything on what we see as physical. If someone wants to have a physicalist position, they can. Not everything is explained on some kind of idealism either. Not everything is explained from any single perspective. But to say that consciousness is some other kind of thing, also without giving some sort of explanation of what that thing is, isn't doing anything more than the physicalist who is talking about consciousness as an emergent property in the way of the interactions.

[@alfredgpogo5032]

@@cloudoftime You both make interesting and valid points. It seems to me that any theory of consciousness is by its very nature untestable. Consciousness being supremely subjective, only the experiencer can say that the experience is occurring, and if the lights go out, as it were, there is no one to report the results.

[@peteraxelsson5336]

Consciousness is the soul, the spirit and same stuff as god. It is not from the brain. Consciousness is the pillar of universe

[@zpwilde]

Absolutely, 100%

[@kuroryudairyu4567]

The real question here should have been "does soul or similar really exist?" and then the answer : let's hope so ❤️🙏💗

[@cps_Zen_Run]

Hoping, beliefs, or faith is not the pathway to truth.

[@kuroryudairyu4567]

@@cps_Zen_Run you clearly misunderstood me, I'm not religious and I'll never ever be religious. I'm not atheist though, I'm a plausibilistic agnostic

[@b.g.5869]

Would it _kill_ you to use the definitive article? It's "does _the_ soul", not "does soul". 😖

[@kuroryudairyu4567]

@@b.g.5869 I'm Italian, secondly i was writing after 4hours of harsh training and I was preparing the ices for the ice bath.......i was definitely KO

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Has anyone ever seen one? No. Seems to me the word 'soul' is a terse and convenient way to say 'I hope death does not entail the end of the being conscious process that I regard as my self'.

[@jayh3283]

Basically, you cannot prove for nor against something you cannot see nor study. What is a soul, how does it look like, where can you find it and what is it made out of? If you cannot answer those things, you cannot use science to study it. Most things in life cannot be proven by science. Just have to wait and see.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Nailed it. Except for "Just have to wait and see."

[@nhdarling2]

Short answer. Yes.

[@ZENTEN7777]

Why does tangibility needs to be actualized in order to understand the soul and consciousness? It's confounding to use the physical brain to understand something beyond the physical realm.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Relationships between physical objects be abstract/immaterial entities but what becomes of them when the physical objects they relate cease to exist?

[@charlesgallagher1376]

Consciousness is the filter of reality. It surrounds you like a quantum field searching for like minded consciousness. Consciousness is the eternal cloud of thought picked like fruit for the connected.

[@Rebelconformist82]

Profound

[@Rebelconformist82]

@@Bringadingus you're too square for poetry

[@sTeVe-vl3nh]

The subjective mind or consciousness is immeasurable. When you say it goes from there to there, than you only describe the time and range of a possible interaction with another mind or yourself in the actual form. But what happens in a dream?

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Everything of which your self is conscious has been synthesized by your thinking process whose inputs are your sense organs and your memories. Your self is conscious in a dream but your thinking process does not run as usual. Dreams are, I suspect, a side effect of a process in which all of your brains neural discharge frequency encoded analogies are attempting to conciliate via the logic of the synapses. In other words to reach a new balance that accommodates the days input. Theoretically speaking, naturally.

[@TheUltimateSeeds]

If all humans (right from the start) were somehow made aware of the fact that we all have immortal souls that will continue on in a higher and more wondrous context of reality after the death of the body, then rest assured that all of our ancient ancestors would have found a quick and painless way of exiting their bodies in order to escape the miseries of this world. In which case, none of the 7.8 billion humans presently alive on earth would have ever come into existence. The point is that humans can never be allowed to know - beyond any doubt - the truth of what waits for us after death. _______

[@TheUltimateSeeds]

@@Alex-vp1uv Alex, how did you manage to derive that conclusion from what I wrote?

[@TheUltimateSeeds]

@@Alex-vp1uv Yeah, but you seem to be ignoring the part that if they (ALL) decided to escape the torture of their current reality (especially if this had happened thousands of years ago), then you, and I, and the 7.8 billion humans presently alive on this planet, would never have come into existence.

[@TheUltimateSeeds]

​@@Alex-vp1uv I understand where you are coming from, Alex. However, all I am suggesting is that you do not rule out the possibility that there is something so wonderful awaiting us after death, that it must be kept hidden so that we are not tempted to seek it out prematurely, thus destroying the physiological means (human bodies and brains) by which God awakens new eternal souls into existence.

[@TheUltimateSeeds]

@@Alex-vp1uv Thank you, Alex, I wish you well also.

[@ALavin-en1kr]

If Consciousness is fundamental and a person’s soul is an individualized spark of that Consciousness that would make sense. A soul cannot be other than individualized consciousness. What is not material cannot be objectively tested but we all know that we know subjectively. .Our subjectively similar experiences is proof enough. No one disputes that they are conscious. So therefore consciousness is fundamental because how can something exist that did not emanate from consciousness. If not from consciousness then from nothing which does not make sense.