David Gates' Testimonies On Music - FaithCampAsia - Visayas - 2010

[@misspalau72]

Thank you brother David Gates for the message. I wish all God's people will listen heavenly music or sing them in the church. This is one of the reason, I don't attend church who plays worldly music. Most of the Conference church are playing or singing worldly music. I attend churches who teach the bible and the Spirit of Prophecy., Present truth.

[@Affliatesusan]

Thank you Lord for your messages and David delivering them!

[@jamisoninnis6328]

hey this was great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@winelfredpasamba]

just open your hymnal and sing and play :D

[@langie24]

I never knew i have been singing with the devil. I have to get rid of many music i got . Thanks for uploading. God bless you and may He lead me into listening to the right music.

[@Bunfire123]

I hope he knows the Adventist hymnal is not solely 7th day Adventist origins? This sermon was based on opinion and his preference to what pertains to “heavenly” music.

[@sampson802002]

"But Jesus gave his life a sacrifice for us, and shall we not give him our best affections, our holiest aspirations, our fullest service? Christ’s yoke we must wear, Christ’s burden we must lift; but the Majesty of heaven declares that his yoke is easy and his burden light. R&H August 25, 1885 page 2, 2nd column 4th paragraph"

[@Affliatesusan]

Prestonwood Choir..."I will then"

[@minequeentyson1721]

Is this David gates member of the bread ???

[@churchguitarist]

May be we have here the true prophet for the last days. I say this because Sis White never spoke out against drums or black originated music. NEVER. In fact Sis White was more opposed to the piano and favoured the guitar. This is easily proved by going to the Ellen White Estate website and searching for drums and then search for piano and see what you get. There is a statement that goes: Conservatives are people who champion causes that liberalists fought for a century ago. When hymns were introduced they were rejected by the church and thought anyone singing along to them was singing with the devil. Now hymns are acceptable. The Adventist Hymnal is a collection of songs that we have changed the words to to suit our faith principles. Thus the original words were not suitable. Should the SDA church use such a set of songs that they have had to change the words to?

[@winelfredpasamba]

egw mentioned drums negatively. egw did not promote drums so we should also not promote it. if she remained quiet then we should also remain quite (don't promote it).

[@seekertruth3577]

The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, [These comments were made in connection with the “Holy Flesh” Movement at the Indiana camp meeting of 1900. For further details, see Selected Messages 2:31-39.] the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions.... A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit's working.... Those things which have been in the past will be in the future. Satan will make music a snare by the way in which it is conducted.-Selected Messages 2:36, 38 (1900). Let us give no place to strange exercisings, which really take the mind away from the deep movings of the Holy Spirit. God's work is ever characterized by calmness and dignity.-Selected Messages 2:42 (1908).

[@churchguitarist]

seeker truth why do you think David gates can be compared to a bedlam of noise?

[@churchguitarist]

winelfredpasamba Did Sis White promote toothpaste? If she kept quiet, should we keep quiet?

[@seekertruth3577]

@@churchguitarist I have the greatest respect for David Gates. I would never compare him with a bedlam of noise. I've only echoed the sentiments of winelfredpasamba that "EGW mentioned drums negativly". The reason why I referenced the particular quotes is to show that EGW did not support drums at all. The SDA church needs more Evangelist like David Gates. May God bless his ministry. See link to an interesting article which I think you will appreciate.www.adventistonline.com/forum/topics/7-practical-reasons-why-the?commentId=1451550%3AComment%3A623973 Also peruse link following link: whiteestate.org/legacy/issues-music-html/ ( Music - Its Role, Qualities, and Influence) Another interesting read with regards the early church : No scholar (of whom I am aware) says early Christians used instruments. No Bible verse records it. The phrase a cappella, which now means “without instrumental accompaniment,” originally meant “as in church.” Instruments were available and widely used in pagan worship and theaters, as well as the Jewish temple, but they were not used by the church. Standard reference works and music textbooks confirm this. Emil Nauman wrote in The History of Music: “There can be no doubt that originally the music of the divine service was everywhere entirely of a vocal nature” (Vol. 1, p. 177). Wycliffe Bible Dictionary says, “There is no record in the New Testament of the use of instruments in the musical worship of the Christian church.” The Catholic Encyclopedia reads, “The first Christians were of too spiritual a fiber to substitute lifeless instruments for or to use them to accompany the human voice.” More than five hundred years passed before instruments were used. Chambers Encyclopedia notes, “The organ is said to have been introduced into church music by Pope Vitalian in 666 ad.” At first, the organ was played only before and after the “liturgy” (worship service). Years later, it was moved into the service proper. Then it caused such controversy that in ad 1054 it led to a split between Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. (Orthodox Churches, with few exceptions, continue to use vocal music only to this day.) Most Protestant churches did not use instruments until the 1800s. In the time of the Reformation, churches opposed instruments in stronger language than we would likely use today. Martin Luther, founder of the Lutheran Church, called the instrument “an ensign of Baal” (McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia, from Luther, Martin, Realencyklopadie Fur Protestantische Theologie und Kirche). John Calvin, founder of the Presbyterian Church, wrote, “Musical instruments in celebrating the praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting up of lamps, and the restoration of the other shadows of the law” (Comments on Psalm 33). John Wesley (1703-1791), founder of the Methodist Church, said: “I have no objection to instruments of music, in our chapels, provided they are neither heard nor seen” (quoted by his personal friend, Adam Clark in Clark’s Commentary, Vol. IV, p. 686). Adam Clarke (1762-1832), prominent Methodist scholar, wrote: “Music as a science, I esteem and admire: but instruments of music in the house of God I abominate and abhor” (Comments on Amos 6). Charles Spurgeon, widely-recognized as the greatest Baptist preacher, wrote in his comments on Psalm 42: “We might as well pray by machinery as praise by it” (Treasury of David, Volume 1, 272). He never allowed instruments in his ten-thousand-seat Metropolitan Tabernacle in London. These quotations are not given as authority, and certainly not to offend, but simply to show that church history is firmly on the side of acappella singing.

[@eugeniamartin712]

What's REALLY disturbing is that many of the Christian musician groups/vocalists are engaged in some serious facades that cover their secret lives.

[@Techdeck758]

What is the Biblical principal for this? Where is the historical proof for this understanding? I see an emphasis on Anglo-Saxon musical culture. There is nothing in the bible suggesting that God prefers this music or that music. If there is please sure me. a bunch of stories will not do. A bunch of stories is tradition.

[@Bunfire123]

Alvinus Melius exactly!

[@zarapine4072]

Do a Bible study on music - music used to make King Saul's demons leave, music used to cause Gods spirit to come upon his profit 2 Kings 3:15. There's loads in the Bible on music. There's even written the kind of instruments used for worshipping God and those used in pagan ceremonies.

[@Techdeck758]

Can i suggest something here? All the music we have on earth comes nothing close to the music that is in heaven. It's all tainted. Pagan introduced wind instruments into human civilization. These instruments were wind instruments not even drums as yet. What conclusion should we draw from this?

[@timelesskoontah]

i listen to alot of christian music the hymnal also but who are the ones or groups that i should not listen to he didn't say

[@cpossenriede]

Real ministry takes place, not in running around the globe condemning everyone and everything that you don't agree with, but at a local church level, helping members that you've known for years to deal with the real issues of life (sickness, debt, broken relationships, wayward children, death, etc.) and sticking by their sides long enough to help them through these issues. Flying into a different city every other week or so and then high-tailing it out of town is not where it's at. Get into real ministry and settle down and pastor a local church and experience the real world and not some fabricated one of your own imagination. And here's a couple of quotes that'll give you a more balanced perspective on music and worship. "Nothing can perfect a perfect unity in the church but the spirit of Christlike forbearance. Satan can sow discord; Christ alone can harmonize the disagreeing elements. . . " --Letter 29, 1889. {RC 200.7} "Christ prayed that His disciples might be one, even as He and His Father are one. In what does this unity consist? That oneness does not consist in everyone having the same disposition, the very same temperament, that makes all run in the very same channel. All have not the same experience. In a church there are different gifts and varied experiences. One man may be conversant with the Scriptures, and some particular portion of the Scripture is especially appreciated by him because he has seen it in a certain striking light; another sees another portion as very important; and thus one and another presents the very points to the people that appear of highest value… We cannot then take a position that the unity of the church consists in viewing every text of Scripture in the very same shade of light. 15MR 149 "There’s no such thing as an evil instrument. It’s how the instrument is used.” Sonic Warfare, Pastor Ivor Myers “There’s no such thing as an evil instrument. It’s how the instrument is used.” I Want My Church Back, Pastor C.D. Brooks “The use of drums is a matter that each church will have to decide. There is nothing in the Bible that forbids the use thereof." Email, 7/24/2011, Orville Parchment, Personal Assistant of GC President Ted C. Wilson "We are aware of the difficulty of suiting the taste of all classes in musical and devotional compositions; the greatest possible diversity for this purpose, which is consistent with the nature of the work in which we are engaged, must therefore be allowed. Some of our hymns, which might be objected to by the more grave and intellectual, and to which. we ourselves have never felt any great partiality, have been the means of reaching, for good, the hearts of those who, probably, would not otherwise have been affected; and, as our object, like that of the Apostle, is to save men, we should not hesitate to use all means lawful, that may promise to ‘save some.’” Himes, Joshua V., Millennial Harp, Boston: Published at 14 Devonshire Street, 1843, p. 2. "We find that most of the hymns and tunes in our present hymn book have been retained, and to these have been added many others of real value, gathered from various sources. We think that so far as the committee has gone, the collection is a good one, and the departments well arranged. It is a fact that there is a demand for a book containing pieces especially adapted for use in tent meetings, camp-meetings, and new Sabbath-schools. Your committee would therefore recommend that a department covering this ground be added to the hymn book. For the convenience of those who do not care for the tunes, and to supply the demand in our tent and camp-meetings, where the large book would be too expensive to use, we would recommend that three separate books be prepared." GCS, December 3, 1885

[@winelfredpasamba]

"There is no such evil gun / missile. it is how it is used." is this what you are saying?anyway SOP says that one of the indicators of bad music is "Association with worldliness in musical lines".this is the full quote: Association with worldliness in musical lines is looked upon as harmless by some Sabbathkeepers. But such ones are on dangerous ground. Thus Satan seeks to lead men and women astray, and thus he has gained control of souls. So smooth, so plausible is the working of the enemy that his wiles are not suspected, and many church members become lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God."--Manuscript 82, 1900. {3SM 332.2}

[@cpossenriede]

winelfredpasamba No, that's not what I'm saying. You can't equate guns with musical instruments. Musical instruments are amoral while guns/missiles were created with the intent to harm. In Scripture, Jesus told us to put our weapons down but never our instruments (Matthew 26:52). It you carefully read the quotes I've listed you'll see that there has always been differences of opinion in our church over what type of music/instrument is appropriate in a religious setting and what type of music/instrument is not. As you can see, our Pioneers dealt with this issue by supplying different types of music for people with varied musical tastes ("For the convenience of those who do not care for the tunes... we would recommend that three separate books be prepared." GCS, December 3, 1885). You don't see them favoring one one type of musical preference while condemning all others. They recognized that people have varied musical tastes when it comes to musical preferences in a religious setting. They did not let one group with one musical preference dominate and control what types of music and musical instruments the entire church used like some are trying to do in our church today ("We are aware of the difficulty of suiting the taste of all classes in musical and devotional compositions; the greatest possible diversity for this purpose, which is consistent with the nature of the work in which we are engaged, must therefore be allowed." Himes, Joshua V., Millennial Harp, Boston: Published at 14 Devonshire Street, 1843, p. 2.). Unity in the church does not consist in everyone praying, singing, worshiping, and believing all exactly the same way. It exists in tolerating each others' differences as long as they don't disagree with the major moral themes in Scripture (10 Commandments, etc) ("We cannot then take a position that the unity of the church consists in viewing every text of Scripture in the very same shade of light." 15MR 149; "Nothing can perfect a perfect unity in the church but the spirit of Christlike *forbearance." Letter 29, 1889. {RC 200.7}). *Forbearance: the quality of someone who is patient and able to deal with a difficult person or situation without becoming angry; refraining from the enforcement of something that is due.

[@winelfredpasamba]

the Bible nor SOP neither encourages you to defend drums. has it become an idol?

[@cpossenriede]

winelfredpasamba No it has not. I believe that I'm just looking at things objectively not subjectively. If anything has become an idol it is the biased opinions of the people who interpret the Bible and SOP to their own liking in order to support their own biased views. I'm not saying that everybody does that (nor am I saying that you do) but I've seen some who do. People need to be kept honest. If I'm defending anything it's only the evidence of truth. The following Ellen White quote sums up what motivates me to get involved in these types of discussions. "It is important that in defending the doctrines which we consider fundamental articles of faith we should never allow ourselves to employ arguments that are not wholly sound. These may avail to silence an opposer, but they do not honor the truth. We should present sound arguments that will not only silence our opponents, but will bear the closest and most searching scrutiny. With those who have educated themselves as debaters there is great danger that they will not handle the word of God with fairness. In meeting an opponent it should be our earnest effort to present subjects in such a manner as to awaken conviction in his mind, instead of seeking merely to give confidence to the believer." 5 Testimonies vol. 5, p. 708 (1889). I don't believe that many of the arguments that people use today against drums can stand up to "the closest and most searching scrutiny." I'm not really pro-drums but if I'm going to be against them it'll have to be based on arguments that are "wholly sound" and I've not yet seen any that, in my opinion, are.

[@genemoore8047]

Take it or leave it it is your choice.