David Starkey: The cultural forces that undermine our progress || The Human Progress Podcast Ep. 5

[@jackominty3633]

Lovely to see David Starkey back on KZbin. Can never get enough of him!

[@londonnow5054]

he has his youtube channel now.

[@JLevant1]

Thanks for featuring the magnificent David Starkey. He's been incredibly mistreated and stabbed in the back. David will never play the victim; to the consternation of his enemies. He's one of England's greatest historians; a mind and wit for the ages. David forces us all to think deeply, critically, rationally about this world and society. Like Churchill; his intellect, wit, sharp tongue and his way with words wins him the most devoted friends and allies as well as the most demonic of enemies. We love you David Starkey.

[@joebloggs4807]

David is a national treasure, a thoroughly decent human being

[@QuiQuaeQuae]

David Starkey is one of the very few people who in every interview with them I listen to (and I've listened to quite a few with him) formulate an idea that is new to me and extremely thought provoking. That being prone to mysticism might be directly correlated with the perception of technology is really interesting. I'd like to thank both of you so much for this great dialogue!

[@drstrangelove4998]

Great to see Dr Starkey always.

[@CommonSwindler]

Starkey the Great; ever profound, ever prescient

[@2DXYSU]

What a wonderful character! This was a great pleasure.

[@chrisruss9861]

The pattern making reference was one of many gems in this discourse.

[@KevinArdala01]

"Intelligent dictatorship" i.e. "Soft despotism" which seems to be increasingly the model of choice for many western governments, at the very least they're leaning heavily in that direction. Excellent interview, Starkey, bless him, is what I'd call a "talker," but fortunately it was all very interesting. I only hope he goes on to write a book about all of this, would be a great read.

[@fwcolb]

Back in the 1930's someone described the Fabians "liberal fascists". H.G. Wells, a leading Fabian adopted the term as the equivalent of "deplorables". But in retrospect, H.G. Wells recognized that British socialists were indeed soft fascists. It is no coincidence that the Nazi Party was the National Socialist German Workers Party, a socialist party, hardened by eugenics policies adopted from the USA.

[@youtubecommenter6223]

So nice to see Starkey back!

[@carmenfoster6912]

Dr. Starkey is NEVER wrong my dear chap!

[@fwcolb]

David Starkey is spot on about the environment. It is such a pleasure to listen to the voice of reason. Human height depends about 50% on environment. Which is why German soldiers in WWII were bigger, stronger and healthier than British soldiers. Canadians, Australians and Americans were generally healthier and bigger too. It was a question of the wealth of their nations and the degree of social and economic equality. Otto von Bismarck’s had introduced compulsory health insurance in the German Empire in 1884. In North America it was simply higher incomes for the working class at least until the 1932 Depression. Probably the same for Australians. Today, you can see how the Overseas Chinese have grown taller and healthier than their ancestors who emigrated from China before WWII.

[@grannyannie6744]

I can't speak for all the countries you mentioned but I can speak for Australia. Even in the 21st century on extended visits to the UK, the lack of unprocessed red meat and green vegetables in supermarkets. Nor could we find real milk, with the inch of cream on top. Historically we were much more rural, in addition our cities and industries were better planned. By the time our industries became a dominant form of work, trams, and trains, and in some cases hydro electricity, this meant that people were not crowded. I'm not saying, they weren't poor. A working class home was often two to four rooms, with an outdoor toilet, which needed to be dug, or emptied by a night soil company, even in cities your water supply could often be a tank that collected rainfall from your roof. But on the plus side, people had the space to plant a couple of fruit trees, lots of vegetables, and chickens, (we call them chooks) . Almost all Australian cities are on the coast. So factory workers could go fishing and swimming at little cost. The space and the opportunity to plan before the population was large also meant that cities had large parks and municipal sporting fields and tennis courts. I am still discussing the 19th C. Whilst there were wealthy land owners, their was no aristocracy. It was largely farmers and farm workers, middle class shop owners, managerial people, and their workers and customers. So there was constant interaction and marriage within this class structure. In addition Australia was from the beginning ran by people sent to from England, for their practical skills. Well educated middle class men. In the wilderness, they achieved a better infant mortality rate than Queen Victoria could do for Mill workers in the same era. Through common sense, mainly. And Australia was the first country within the Commonwealth to realise that it was immoral to keep boys as young as nine (convicts sent to Australia) in prison with adult men. And so different facilities for boys under 16 were built. They were taught to read and write, and given the choice of perhaps twenty trades to learn, the only proviso being that a medical doctor approve their choice, most importantly and almost a world first at that time, every day they had designated hours of Play, including most of Saturday. Swim, build tree houses, kick balls.

[@fwcolb]

@@grannyannie6744 Thanks for sharing this.

[@grannyannie6744]

@@fwcolb So sorry, I'd had a few drinks, it really needed editing.

[@fwcolb]

@@grannyannie6744 Reminded me of my own childhood in Canada during the 1930's.. We got just enough to eat. Never had full stomachs. But that was enough to stay healthy. Hardly anyone had cars and we walked long distances or cycled. Enough to stay fit. We were not aware that life could be soft and easy. We knew we had rights, but we also knew we had duties. And did not think much of people who did not at lest try to balance rights and duties. Today I see the game is to gain by claiming rights to this and that and just about everything, while avoiding duty to family, community and country. Free-riders is the formal term of economists. In those days, we called them free-loaders.

[@grannyannie6744]

@@fwcolb I wasn't born in the 30s, but one of my grandmother's grew up in great poverty, her father was not in good health and her mother was dying of cancer. Her mother died in 1930, she was nine. She was put in the custody of an adult sister who didn't let her go to school and used her as an unpaid dairy maid. when she was 11 she pretended to be 13 to go into domestic service. I still remember when I was a little child, she spent hours teaching me which weeds you can eat, as these were the only snacks she knew as a child. And I agree, today the system is directed at rewarding the least responsible people in society. And how that happened is a long story. I'm younger and in the sixties and seventies, we didn't actually go hungry, but fruit from the garden and lots of bread and jam, is quite different from what children today consume.

[@carmenfoster6912]

Human Progress is David Starkey!

[@newcjon]

Greatest living historian

[@davidpratten6755]

Many thanks for providing this opportunity to listen to the admirable David Starkey. Unfortunately, there appear to be very few recent videos of him. Because of his outspoken opposition to current cultural doctrines, he is anathema to TV and radio. Interviewers often forget that inviting Starkey to speak is like lighting the touchpaper of a bonfire night rocket 😀. Sit back and enjoy the dazzling and impressive bursts of scholarship, erudition and eloquence 💥💥💥.

[@davidpratten6755]

Thanks for your recommendation. 👍

[@annaknowles5314]

He's scheduled to appear on Triggernometry fairly soon so keep an eye open.

[@davidpratten3330]

@Anna Knowles Thanks, I am subscribed to Triggernometry and will look out for this. During a recent GBN interview, it was mentioned that a David Starkey KZbin channel will broadcast from the end of this month :). I cant wait but will have to ;).

[@endeavour356]

Thinkers are always anathema to someone vide Margaret Thatcher.

[@laurenjeangreenbean6301]

Starkey is a beautiful, elegant voice of consistency and reality-based thought. Please don't stop "banging on" for the objective truths, so many are listening and those who aren't, should be!

[@jankomatko1474]

Great guest.

[@RollingTree2]

Good talk. Keep em coming. Impressive patience by the interviewer.

[@theoilandgasresourceportal2132]

Starkey puts it to all the arseholes on our behalf... Viva Starkey

[@tomtom21194]

It's pretty sad this has only got 19 thousand views. Great conversation. Helped me clarify a few thoughts

[@scarletpimpernel230]

15:05: "You are a requiem, the last generation, I predict, who will say these kinds of things [about progress]. " Not if enough people understand what drives progress forward and articulate that understanding to others. And whether they will is still open to human striving and decision.

[@johnnyforeigner4768]

Top of many people's dinner party list, though he'd quite possibly loath the idea. I've no idea if he reads any comments, but I've often wondered why couldn't he create his own history or life course online, with lectures and filmed sequences? Deplatformed by academia, he could create his own award/certificate( paid for obviously) on completion of the course, in terms of street cred, worth more than a piece of paper from Oxford.

[@zootsoot2006]

Just a KZbin live streaming channel of him talking on every topic under the sun 24 hours a day.

[@davidpratten3330]

During a recent GBN interview, Starkey informed that his own KZbin channel will start from the end of this month. Good news at last :).

[@fwcolb]

For lectures, search Google for Thomas Sowell, an American economist, historian and geographer.

[@shafur3]

Why was David never given a title or medal? Or was he that I'm not aware of, ( im from the United States). I love watching him he's wonderful. Thank you for sharing.

[@yarazooom]

he is a modern day Socrates

[@lenwilkinson672]

A brilliant brain man and personality. Unfortunately he isn’t in government.he would put our politicians to shame.

[@marctempler3250]

Dr. Starckey is of course quite right about our colonial ancestors. Compare the history of Spanish colonized America and that of British colonized America. Both established at about the same time and one infinitely richer yet outcomes profoundly different. Rather like a child with loving parents and one with careless and abusive ones.

[@viewer3091]

Very Good.

[@PenMom9]

Was this recorded on the Tuesday? 😎 Sadly this American agrees with the good Dr.’s analysis of the direction we are headed, following 2020. I recommend Dr. N. T. Wright on the topic of Christian thought.

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

We have become overly dependent on China for the cheap goods we need every day. A good example is the US inability to manufacture PPE during the pandemic. I happened to have a box of masks around for doing dusty household tasks, but I wasn’t able to get more for many months.

[@endeavour356]

A wise companion in argument to the late Sir Roger Scruton

[@libertarianismmoribundinst5497]

2:13 I never thought that I'd learn I'm the same height as Henry VIII. 6'1".

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

I always enjoy listening to Dr. Starkey. I’m somewhat younger and just want to point out that not everyone embraces new technologies. At 61, I rarely watched television in my life, I just don’t find it as interesting as reading. But I do use some technologies that give me what I’m looking for, for example, I’m currently doing an online course on, yes, the Federalist Papers. I love being able to pick and choose what kind of information I take in, technology makes more choice in this possible. Technology can’t destroy human judgement, quest for truth and intellectualism, future generations will be ok. Whenever I talk to college kids, I’m impressed with their sound values and goals. If they can just slow down our massive consumption of bonanza resources and do less environmental damage than we did, they’ll be fine.

[@bottomsupbass]

Lovely to see cousin dave

[@robertewing3114]

Yes, quite possibly our mastery of the outside world has cost us advance on personal quality, but advance to remedy this is also significant, historically recent publication is a milestone, namely Hear Yourself by Prem Rawat. The silver lining to the dark cloud is possible, because peace is possible, the most historic find, and indeed inside. Personal quality requires inspiration, and inspiration requires the heart. As we learn to listen to the heart we begin to learn that life is a gift, and that indeed is historic and departure from the dark cloud, and that is need, we must learn that the human mind has complicated the world rather than mastered it. Yes the dark cloud has had an immense innings, but it is nothing to the power of WG Grace.

[@Justificus]

Something that is not covered in this discussion, is the simple fact that irregardless of the historical era you examine, large masses of people have very little time for self examination or self improvement as the necessities of living demand their full attention and the hours of waking existence. The general public today have two primary concerns: health and money - consuming everyone's immediate thoughts and occupations. How do you prioritize rational and intellectual inquiry as a necessity in competition with the modern equivalent of constant stress and basic survival in our nation states?

[@trojanthedog]

Cyclical beliefs are best represented by Fortunas Wheel so beautifully referred to by Boethius, a late Roman, in The Consolation of Philosophy.

[@quackhouseproductions5572]

I think I’m sold on the idea of the collapse of our IQ leading to our demise.

[@virochanaasura8521]

This is the model the Western oligarchs want to hold on to and expand their power. There is nothing accidental about it.

[@mirzaadil4696]

And in fact the social is much more conditional than not.

[@renshiwu305]

Richard I (not Henry VIII's ancestor, note, but same Plantagenet family), Edward I, Edward IV, Mary Stuart (Queen of Scots), and Charles II were all very tall. Henry's daughter, Mary, was tiny; Edward VI was also slight of build. Jane Grey and her sisters - particularly the youngest, Mary - were tiny despite being, not only descendants of Edward IV, but also Henry's chum, Charles Brandon. Charles II was son of Charles I, who was miniscule. Richard III was not at all tall, or complexioned, like his brother, Edward IV. Nature is capricioius.

[@jdlotus8253]

Rome had the (Greek, legendarily designed by Archimedes) Antikithera device. Way more complicated then a clock.

[@jamesquinn117]

He said alot of things that made him seem childish and full of self confidence in a very teenage way, it was personally embarrassing to listen to as I usually find listening to his history videos fairly interesting and informative, maybe he's a much better historian than philosopher and thinker, although if he's willing to sacrifice his historical knowledge to inaccurately reinforce his philosophy then that's abit worrying and embarrassing too as a fan of his.

[@chevinbarghest8453]

I used to like Starkey in the early 90s radio when he was a shock jock type... He is much more sophisticated (in his style) now... Very learned and 'enlightening' and a pleasure to listen to.... though occasionally wrong in his conclusions

[@faiza3165]

I do think it’s all super interesting.

[@SunofYork]

@@faiza3165 I agree he is interesting, but his curmudgeonly tendencies are becoming more pronounced as he sails into his dotage

[@yarazooom]

its not so much that 'Christianity is source of what is wrong with society' BUT the championing & dominance of Christianity as the ONLY way to think. this type of prostelitising makes Christianity an authoritarian endeavor

[@robinlillian9471]

Real progress is impossible until people are able to learn from the mistakes of the past instead of discounting them and claiming this time will be different. Technology does not always improve your circumstances. We have electricity and antibiotics, but we also have chronic diseases from modern pollution and processed food. We may not have effective antibiotics for much longer, either.

[@robinlillian9471]

You can't confine creativity to technological innovation. Minds trained to let the leaders do their thinking for them will find it very difficult to reverse their conditioning, and impossible to do it without applying creativity to every area of life. It's like trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Creativity and free inquiry is everywhere or nowhere.

[@lewistaylor2858]

7:00 the Romans built on a scale (and not with slaves) that dwarfs the middle ages...

[@allthatstitching]

Thoroughly enjoyed this somewhat one-sided conversation. If we accept this premise however, who better to be gifted the weightier side?

[@jameshazelwood9433]

He does not mention Henry 8th Welsh line where the name Tudor comes from

[@quackhouseproductions5572]

China is now building their own China (from a western POV) in Africa. They need it to expand and produce their own cheap goods as their middle class grows. Just depends if their own internal expansion can sustain their own growth. They spend a obscene amount on their own infrastructure. Once that fills out we shall see what happens. Like once the USSR had finished shovelling it’s money and Labour in to the previously woefully under developed industry and infrastructure it collapsed. Could this happen to China.

[@robinlillian9471]

Ceilings were lower, because you needed less wood to heat your home that way. Heat rises, and a warm ceiling with a cold room below it is worthless. If you were rich, you could afford more wood and servants to chop it up. Poor people had lower ceilings.

[@anontill5302]

I have Chinese friends who escaped China who won't be happy hear this.

[@amacfieY]

Gibbon's theory is criticized en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_the_Western_Roman_Empire#Reasons

[@guts145]

I don't think there's a need to philosophize about which or whether technology will produce decline when it's already crystal clear that the civilisation traditionnally responsible for most of the modern iterations of progress is showing itself to be failling on a basic level. There is no way to enter the psychic realm of the medieval peasant, yet it is sure that he was sane enough to continue having a progeny and to toil his fields, while his leaders purged dysgenic behavior. The same reasoning can be applied to ethical progress. If your wholesome mores are fated to stay as marginal as that of the bonobos, then clearly you're carrying the wrong package, no matter how pleasing the short-term delight it brings is.

[@robertewing3114]

Dr Johnson, kick a stone, very much my childhood, and I was named after a Doctor. Edit, actually put garden fork through the foot, ow!

[@dpagain2167]

The flippant criticism of modern art re. beauty is just that, flippant. Modern art is not about beauty,in many cases, but not all, it is about the exact opposite.

[@yarazooom]

is cryptocurrency progressive? lets find out as El Salvador adopts it as its only State currency

[@benphilips9918]

@48 mins: for a more balanced view of Christianity's influence on the world read Tom Holland's 'Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World.' Starkey is wrong in this but right on a lot.

[@doncoyote2]

Twitter, Facebook bad, KZbin good?

[@miguelmarques4583]

Of course Nietchze himself enjoyed being whipped and was a mad sifilitic. A lot of his own ideas like the power of will bred wokeism Nietchze has a lot to blame for this.

[@SzTz100]

Is Starkey over-analysing human progress. Sure the Chinese were making the same chariot for 800 years, but they have made the jump to the microchip, they will surely make more progress beyond this point.

[@shipaskof8371]

Let Marian speak. He didnt interrupt u david

[@spkurer]

Maybe a brilliant historian but comes across enamoured with his own brilliance, and unnecessarily personal in his criticism of others - lots of cherry picking the catastrophes' of the other side' - I don't understand the idea that the elected PM in UK is a monarch - surely being elected and being unceremoniously removed from power every few years is NOT the modus operandi of a monarch certainly not in the UK - and there were many other sweeping statements which seemed questionable. The interviewer did his best to keep him on track but it wasn't easy. I am also surprised - when in a historical context the miracle of democracy is widely praised, and the peaceful passing on of the baton of government by the losers to the winners is to be celebrated every time - that we don't see the incredible undermining of democracy that is taking place by Trump and his friends not being berated at every opportunity. There is much Starkey mentions that is challenging, the wokism, the challenges of liberal freedoms by governments, cancel culture and more but the seeds of not accepting a peaceful and law abiding change of government in the States - is REALLY not good and does not bode well for the future.

[@will8805]

Monarchies can be elective, see the Anglo Saxons. When Starkey is discussing monarchy he is referring to its real Latinate meaning: the rule of one.

[@chrish12345]

nothing worse than non-philosophers talking like they understand the subject that many greater minds have grappled with over the years, without ever having come up with any clear answers - and yet Starkey, who has spent his life dismissing philosophy as a subject, talks like he has got it all sorted out.

[@yarazooom]

a demonstration of the absurdity of contemporary 'progress' is the new terminology of a 'pregnant person'. this designation puts woman's rights back by 100s of years

[@shipaskof8371]

David is not a biologist chemist or physicist.

[@ManForToday]

As great a historian he is, as much as I like him, his characterisation of Christianity, both in its inception and in Rome and late, he couldn’t be more wrong. Plus his dismissal of Berkeley on a deep metaphysical problem (in which there’s no consensus) is naive.

[@AminTheMystic]

Something he speaks well on others he is painfully ignorant. Utter rubbish about Christianty, China and spread of knowledge.