Computer Science isn't programming! // How to become a Master Programmer // Featuring Dr Chuck

[@davidbombal]

FREE course links below :) // MENU // 00:00 ▶ Introduction 01:30 ▶ Cisco Certs as the Standard and Why Programming Doesn't Have an Equivalent 04:33 ▶ Computer Science As the Way to Get Into Programming 09:37 ▶ Computer Science Doesn't Make You a Master Programmer 11:25 ▶ Why The System is Broken 14:20 ▶ The Role of Universities in the Future of Education 22:08 ▶ The First Half of the Path to Master Programmer 24:00 ▶ The Second Half of the Path to Master Programmer 26:26 ▶ What Is a Master Programmer? 31:36 ▶ David and Dr Chuck's Experiences with Programming Courses at University 36:32 ▶ Brief Overview of the Origin of Computer Science and What Went Wrong 44:02 ▶ When Dr Chuck Teaches Recursion 44:56 ▶ But Doesn't the System Actually Work? Just look at Google and Facebook 45:38 ▶ The Idea for Google Wasn't Good Enough for a PhD 48:47 ▶ How to Fix the System 50:43 ▶ The Last Nut to Crack 54:22 ▶ Open Source's Role 56:44 ▶ You Can't Apply Until You Have Run the Gauntlet 1:00:34 ▶ You Can Start Now 1:01:08 ▶ The Value of Mentors 1:04:15 ▶ The Problem with Online Platforms 1:05:37 ▶ Why Cisco is the Standard in Networking 1:08:15 ▶ Every Course Dr Chuck Teaches Requires Him to Write Code 1:09:29 ▶ Quick Summary for the Plan for the Master Programmer 1:11:53 ▶ What's the Cost Going to Be? 1:15:09 ▶ Education Is For Everybody, Not Just the Rich 1:16:36 ▶ Final Thoughts 1:18:33 ▶ Thanks, Dr Chuck! // MY STUFF // www.amazon.com/shop/davidbombal // SOCIAL // Discord: discord.com/invite/usKSyzb Twitter: twitter.com/davidbombal Instagram: instagram.com/davidbombal LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/davidbombal Facebook: facebook.com/davidbombal.co TikTok: tiktok.com/@davidbombal KZbin: kzbin.info // Dr Chuck social // Website: www.dr-chuck.com/ Twitter: twitter.com/drchuck/ KZbin: kzbin.info Coursera: www.coursera.org/instructor/drchuck // Python for Everybody // Free Python course on Coursera: www.coursera.org/specializations/python KZbin: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnXZqqqljNtpnKs Python for Everybody: www.py4e.com/ Free Python Book: do1.dr-chuck.com/pythonlearn/EN_us/pythonlearn.pdf Dr Chuck's Website: www.dr-chuck.com/ Free Python Book options: www.py4e.com/book // Django for Everybody // Website: www.dj4e.com/ Coursera: www.coursera.org/specializations/django KZbin: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWG7k3usgN2qbbs // Web Applications for Everybody // KZbin: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rqOZpo16h7mhl5I Website: www.wa4e.com/ Coursera: www.coursera.org/specializations/web-applications // Internet History // Coursera: www.coursera.org/learn/internet-history KZbin: kzbin.info/www/bejne/amixg5R4i92ajK8 // SPONSORS // Interested in sponsoring my videos? Reach out to my team here: [e-mail]

[@breveganlyfe]

Next guest on the channel should be "Gummo", the hacker from Soft White Underbelly channel. That would be very interesting since we all know that David is the one who ask all the right and valuable questions.

[@Muhammad-sx7wr]

*It's interesting that two of great mentors do not agree on this subject. Uncle Bob for instance says that you need to be a mathematician to be a good programmer.*

[@castlerock7423]

Python course is only free for a 7 day trial.

[@alarmsquadnj]

F

[@newmanjohnwell1105]

Thank you David for your wonderful videos very helpful

[@freecodecamp]

Dr. Chuck is a legend!

[@todorowael]

Second that! He inspired me to start learning Python and I will always be grateful to him for that.

[@sparksays7247]

Facts!

[@StevenDelong]

He's a guru!

[@corbuvlad]

[@itsshowtime3762]

u too

[@garrettwitzenburg2873]

I'm a computer scientist meaning I have my CS degree but hes spot on. I was so disappointed after my degree I felt inadequate and unprepared. It wasn't until I decided for myself to really struggle through brute force solving problems online that I finally started to learn programming itself. Universities are full of egos and pretenders no offense, the real learning comes when its just you vs you

[@Khan-fi9gx]

Hiii

[@relly793]

Where did you learn this brute force learning

[@nicosoftnt]

@@chrisjin1112 Unless you are talking about Harvard, or MIT where they pay the best teachers in a year what most programmers won't earn in 10, everything is in the internet now, especially with AI making it easier.

[@nicosoftnt]

@dekart I agree, but programmers are not scientists, far from it. I like mathematics though, studying math can greatly increase your problem solving abilities and bring you more to an engineer, maths you can learn alone.

[@nicosoftnt]

@dekart It's hard to get to that level, even degrees that combine math and cs don't go deep enough to develop your expertise in rocket science. Most universities offer average knowledge taught by average teachers for average students. So, with these tools, what do you recommend? We can only do so much, just work with what you have. If you lack the money, if you were born in a small city with poor education, I think learning by yourself as much as you can is the best and only solution, only then can you contribute to society in a meaningful manner. If you have the money or opportunity, the skill and the interest, then avoiding a degree that can prepare you in such a way, is a crime.

[@NikicaVaradi]

David was my motivation not to give up ever. Not that long ago I was working on a farm and listening his ccna courses. Today I'm managing 6 production servers and complete industrial network infrastructure, and got involved in the software development as c# dev. Only by folowing one rule, that tomorows myself shall be proud of today's myself. Thank you David.

[@neanda]

Wow, that's well cool

[@scottspa74]

I hope @davidbombal sees your comment. That story would make everything he puts out seem justified (to him). 👍

[@musazwane6049]

What's the first programming language did you learn first?

[@nixonrulez]

@@musazwane6049 PHP + html, then JS, then Python, then did a quick course of Java, then c#. Currently using JS and C# extensively

[@musazwane6049]

@@nixonrulez thank you @nixonrulez. I assume you're a software engineer yourself?

[@erikgiggey4783]

i have been programming 40+ years and the main thing i emphasize to new programmers is to never stop, never stop learning and never stop being curious. i did the 2 year degree and spent more time correcting instructors than learning anything. and i did it when i was 25. unfortunately im one of the humans good with technology horrible with humans. best compliment i have ever gotten was a new dev that was brought in to work with me, unfortunately the company downsized after he had been there 6 months he said, "i learned more from you in 6 months than i did in 6 years at(large university in the us that will remain nameless) i enjoy helping people learn and progress to me its more fun now than actual development.

[@Feedback406]

Guys like you are the real mvp🫡 👑 I don’t even know you but thank you🫂

[@mytechnotalent]

As a Professional Engineer I really appreciate your direct tech channel no BS David. It is good to hear Dr. Chuck as I stand firm with him as I also teach tech in my free time while I work in tech full-time. I hope entry-level folks see this.

[@el.tacolgando]

I wanna break into tech but have no college education

[@DZ4295DBW]

Im not even in tech and I'm watching it. I'm on a proces to learning it but I personally want to get into PenTesting eventually.

[@codergirl-ms]

I am a self-taught programmer who is still learning how to figure out how to learn coding effectively also I am building up a team

[@mytechnotalent]

@@codergirl-ms that is exciting to hear! Keep pushing forward and we can all support and learn from one another. David's series are very targeted and beneficial.

[@ithinkthereforeitalk935]

Wow, what a guest! I was listening to this guy's lectures on Python last year. He has a knack for explaining complex things in a very simple way.

[@davidbombal]

Glad you enjoyed the video!

[@ChristopherMartinez-su8ps]

What a guest indeed!!

[@lethil]

Its a saying that if you can't explain a complex thing in simple terms to someone, you don't truly understand it. This isn't exactly true, in reality it's a gift some teachers/experts have but these people are so valuable not only for explaining things. But when someone receives that information the light bulbs flicks on and they want to know more, they are inspired and begin their learning journey. And after watching this I felt that. Obviously no where near on this level but teaching my friends the rough basics of how a computer works, or cyber security concepts, or hacking concepts with analogies they understand and can relate the concept to is rewarding and I love seeing the light bulb flick on even though my own understanding of some of these things is only medicore level. But it is so rewarding and I love that there are people willing to share their knowledge to flick on those light bulbs for the rest of us! And I love that there are so many people trying to help others learn as well.

[@RickHenderson]

Absolutely love this. I was familiar with Dr. Chuck as an academic and I may have even taken part of his course. I spent 16 yrs teaching programming in a computer science programme and he is 100% right.

[@toul100]

This is so powerful coming from a Doctor... been studying cyber sec for 2 year and now I am in school to get the B.S. in Cyber Sec, I have built multiple programs with GUI and my own module that writes its own code now... I have really been doubting my work since my college told me I cannot qualify for computer science because of my highschool transcripts. I do feel after watching this I am more than worthy of what I wanted in computer science: now I feel as if it would not get me further than my own curiosities after watching this... keep Self Study Alive!

[@Zed0086]

Thank you so much, David! This gives me so much hope as a 36-year-old man; that’s trying to make his way into the DevOps/IT world! Thank you!

[@lardosian]

Personally I think 36 or around that is a good age to learn programming, worked out fine for me.

[@sylvainbodji1124]

I'm 37 and learning programming

[@josephl2027]

Im 38 and started about a year ago... you got this!

[@003kashif]

I'm 34 , and learning programming.....

[@fadious_padious2711]

I got my 1st job as a software dev at 38 after doing a software engineering degree at WGU and am still going strong a few years later.

[@iankanyi]

The world definitely doesn't deserve the brilliance that's David and Dr Chuck! Thank you so much for the sacrifices you guys make to empower everyone 🙌🏽!

[@1anre]

Listened to this talk while driving to work this morning & I realized as a Tech Professional you forever remain a student - there’s always something new for you to learn & that hunger should be what drives you to ruthlessly go for more knowledge. The curriculum path for Dr. Chuck’s journey to become a Master Programmer seems neat - 1. Python, 2. Django(OOP), 3. PHP, 4. PostgreSQL, 5. Java(OOP), 6. C, 7. Assembly, 8. Hardware(Machine Language), 9. Practical Internship.

[@ColourOfTheGods]

Dr. Chuck's Python course is *literally* how I got started with my career in tech and software engineering/DevOps engineering. It's the same course that I always recommend to people who are looking to get into programming and building a career in tech. Great interview man, really cool to hear you guys sharing your experiences

[@saboo480]

I’m just getting to the end of his py4e specialization. Would you have any advice on what to learn next?

[@ColourOfTheGods]

@@saboo480 I think if you can get all the way through the course, get his free book that comes with it (or purchase a print copy, I still have mine handy years later. Ensure you do the capstone right at the end and the geolocation/crawler app projects, all the DB (SQLite) work too. As a next step, I would highly recommend you look at cloud computing, basic networking, and maybe a bit around Agile/Scrum framework. Even if it's just having familiarity with those concepts it would help a great deal. Then get yourself on a placement/internship and work your butt off - the rest will take care of itself

[@saboo480]

@@ColourOfTheGods thank you so much for taking the time to respond! I’m working through the capstone right now but when I’m done I’ll be sure to look into cloud computing/networking/etc. A physical copy of the book also sounds like a great idea for quick reference. Doing this alone I’m always wondering what my next step should be and getting my foot in the door will probably be the most challenging part but again, thank you for your help!

[@user-qy6tu9ip9v]

@@saboo480 HI buddy. I'm doing this on my own and it's tough. It's so intimidating.

[@saboo480]

@@user-qy6tu9ip9v Hey K! I felt the same way but I got through it somehow :) I think the things to remember are that the computer is always right and that there's no need to rush. You've got this!

[@dr.strangelove5622]

I prefer not to comment on KZbin videos, but this time I would because I want to tell you that this was a wonderful interview that you did. I learned Python from Dr. Chuck via his Python for Everybody specialization and it re-ignited my interest in computers and programming. His passion for practical stuff is infectious! As a noob learning about x86 assembly and making a toy OS for it, I am looking forward to his course on assembly language and C. Once again, amazing interview. You have earned a subscriber today!!

[@SaravanaKumar-bs2lf]

Me too 😅

[@patientson]

I am very glad to see you introduce this conscious, bright, kind and patient being who takes his time to teach.

[@TinkerTech]

What he said around 1:08 is a life lesson I always remind my kids. "Learning what not to do is still learning." Also, as a master peanut butter and jelly builder, I can also attest that computer science is not important in becoming a master peanut butter and jelly builder.

[@tigreonice2339]

I took his courses and he is an amazing teacher Nice interview

[@davidbombal]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the interview :)

[@michaelkalmus9141]

Legend! I just finished my degree at UMSI and had Dr. Chuck for one of my courses. Truly insightful man.

[@michellapointe9145]

Every minute of this is tremendously interesting - I am 62 working in network for the past 5 years and can relate to absolutely every concept dr Chuck put out. particularly the mentoring issue. Great conversation, David - Thabk you so much.

[@marketalpha5426]

I have two assignments left in Django for Everybody. Looking to finish by this weekend. Dr. Chuck is very inspirational. Thank you.

[@Yalbou]

Im doing a python programming course at university and its a nightmare. The teachers dont even teach you anything or provide answers. Im going to sign up to this drs course and hope to learn that way. University is not a place to learn, just to get a piece of paper

[@kengonzo1640]

Wow! What an absolutely outstanding showcase of long format conversation-oriented video podcasts. This is what KZbin is all about for me! Years of doubt had kept me content with difficult labor jobs, especially as the sole provider for my family. Started studying again in between 11-hour days, six days a week over the past two years. Was beggining to doubt my judgement because I took a decent pay cut to switch careers and my savings are growing smaller every day. This video hit home and motivates me to keep pushing. I wish I had a sliver of the life lesson and mentorship provided by only 1 piece of content than most of my adult life. Thank you for the effort you put into generating content on your channel! You really knocked it out of the park with this one, as always. I am incredibly appreciative of your content.

[@antran4465]

Thanks for this. Very useful! Note: I thought Coursera is not free at first. Turned out you have to click on Audit instead of Enroll to have the free material. Thanks Doctor Chuck and David

[@scottspa74]

How have I never heard of this guy? I just finished a 2 year degree in cybersecurity and networking, and have used TONS of online supplementals, and somehow never seen this guy. ☹️ Definitely signing up for his courses NOW. Thanks, David.

[@soldierofpeace]

I believe "coding/programming" is getting towards trades. A similar situation was with an electrician, a mechanic coz back in the days, you needed to go to Uni to get these "prestigious" jobs; however, when information is easily accessible to the public that means now a regular Joe can obtain it without Uni and that fancy "subject" like "coding" looses its "prestige" from now on we can call it a trade. Practically, nowadays everyone can learn not just coding but almost everything either for free or at a low cost; therefore it makes sense to pay for a mentor in order not to get lost in the realm of information. Kinda irony too.

[@stevensmith6376]

This discussion is spot on. I've always been fascinated with computers and programming and the traditional education system does everything possible to make learning how to leverage computers next to impossible. Dr. Chuck is spot on with his assessment of how narrow traditional education is as it relates to learning in general. Computers? Let's see...what traditional tower do they relate closest to.......ummmmm let's say Math.....Great! Ok so if someone is interested in computers....let's put them through a gauntlet of curriculum as far away as possible from an actual computer and let's see who can survive it. If they do...in their fourth year....let's give them one or two classes that are almost applicable to computers. Then we'll graduate them and when they get hired they'll get paid $30,000 more than the "experienced" people who actually know how computers work. Hope Dr. Chuck is successful with his Sakai project. At least someone from the Ivory Tower actually gets how screwed up our current higher education system is.

[@godswillabhulimhen-okosun9714]

I enjoyed and learned much from this video. Thank you David. I am changing career and a beginner in programming who is in my 30's from Africa. I am going to start learning Python because I want to go into Cybersecurity. I want to say your videos are impactful. Thanks a lot

[@innocentmasedze6300]

me and you we are the same

[@rinpocheminds2479]

Very grateful, thank you. Just a fabulous teacher. I'm doing the course without entering payment details for the free 7 day trial, saving my work files, and will copy and paste them into the autograde when I'm finished, - within the 7 day free trail. This course is filling in many important gaps my lecturer didn't cover, that caused me SO much frustration and wasted time and effort. Big, humungous, heartfelt thanks.

[@avidian888]

What a wonderful teacher and mastermind of education! He summed up everything I hated about school and university and why I loved working in real world. Thanks for the great interview! 👏🏽☺️🎉

[@theena]

That 'anything educational, I don't monetize' is why I love this man. I can't wait for the C Programming for Everybody series.

[@shishsquared]

28:59 THIS! My CCNA instructor (Shout out Professor Mann) would teach us in as few words as possible. He drilled simple sentences into us that would solve complex problems. One specifically I've gone back and used so many times that I have it memorized. That is: "The multiplier is the place value of the least significant subnet bit". Almost any subnetting question can be answered by this simple sentence, once it's truly understood. And he did slow the sentence down for us and kept repeating it until we understood. That was 4 years ago and that sentence isn't any less clear in my mind. Anyone studying for the CCNA, I highly recommend memorizing and understanding that sentence

[@Casperr123]

Fantastic ! Love the end quote from David to Chuck " You're here not to make millions, but to help millions "

[@justinmecham3748]

I took the Python for everyone Coursera course back in 2017. It was the first programming course I took. And it still is one of the best intro to computer science courses I’ve taken. Glad to see Dr Chuck is still going strong!

[@Mark-po7qd]

LOVE both of you guys. I have learned a ton from Dr.Chuck on Coursera. Thanks David for your awesome content, and Dr.Chuck for starting from the very basics and working your way up in your Python courses unlike most courses/tutorials that try to drop you straight into doing things without understanding why.

[@mech2itcourse146]

I'm mechanical engineering Passout in may 2022. I want to switch in IT industry which course is better for me. Devops vs data science vs data analytics vs cyber security. Vs software testing vs SAP BASIS .etc ?

[@emkoravo]

38:00 what teaching ought to be. Curiosity and excitement served on a platter with humble pie with everyone partaking--beautiful.

[@jamealjordon1376]

"If all you have is a multiple choice quiz, that's the worst possible assessment..." - Dr. Chuck *off in the distance, and out of nowhere, CompTIA just took a critical hit*

[@KameraShy]

Multiple choice tests vary a lot in quality and effectiveness.

[@SlugSage]

EmOtIoNaL DaMaGe

[@SlugSage]

This was one of the best interviews I have experienced on this channel. Thanks David.

[@prashkd7684]

I've done packet tracer back in my CCNA course.. the ability to visualize the packets and the entire network is just amazing.

[@KameraShy]

Back in the Day - like mid 70's - large companies were hiring people off the streets to be programmers and train them. I was one of them. They had no background or experience in computers at all. They came from everywhere: new grads in non-related disciplines, music teachers, school teachers, accountants, just anything. They did not need a degree in math or physics to write COBOL programs to run payroll or track inventory. A few may have had CS degrees, but were never taught how to code and develop applications in a business environment. But the idea that anyone and everyone could learn to program - without a CS track - was not new. I remember that back in 1967 when online timesharing systems were just becoming available,. Dartmouth began teaching BASIC to its students, that programming knowledge and skills could be useful in all disciplines. There is KZbin video about the history of that program with interviews of those who were students in the program back then.

[@jonathanmoore5619]

I worked at Cisco 1998 - 2005. Loved every minute.

[@jasonpitts8395]

As always David you have THE BEST YT channel when it comes to cyber. Much appreciated sir. 🙏

[@davidbombal]

Thank you so much Jason!

[@akbntc]

I agree, it's the best Python course. I was Dr. Chuck's student in 2017 for his Python course at Coursera!

[@Maleko48]

talks like this give me motivation and confidence I can find a job now that I am fresh out of school with a degree, yet feeling like I know nothing. what I do know is I am good at mastering systems from scratch that I am thrown into, given real world problems and contexts along with enough time

[@MohamedAdelMetallized]

Thank you David for what you deliver on your channel and helping everyone to explore different IT branches!

[@edwardsaal]

Dr Chuck, great work you are sent. 1984 I owned my first PC an 'XT'. Gone through hundreds of programming materials and have not found what you are sharing, but your Python course I am going to do and complete. Thanks. God bless you.

[@mckeanethomas3830]

Went through the python 4 everybody course with Dr. Chuck. Man, he went through everything from the basics.

[@ziaullah4107]

David Bombal and Dr. Chuck. You are great legends, helping people like us to stay motivated and giving us a direction.

[@JackofTradeApps]

Super insightful David! Huge fan of your channel. This was indeed the validation that I needed to see. I often describe the discussions I see as; Talking about the root structure of a tree by discussing each and everything leave first. And not the foundation first like hearty soils, rich nutrients, solid seeds, consistent watering... etc!!! Thank you both! Dr. Chuck is the man..

[@leavemealone535]

Great talk! I very much agree with the points he is making. Taking programming courses in college almost made me hate it. It's hyper competitive, you are graded very critically on sometimes inane metrics. It did damage to my confidence and delayed my intellectual growth. I didn't really start learning and loving programming until I just started building stuff on my own.

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

You'll also find most of the "best" programmers built stuff on their own before they went to college and then went to college after that.

[@tjoleary8738]

Loving this video David...you guys are, most definitely, going to change the world in a very positive way! Thanks for ALL you do!

[@ganeshvenepally4028]

I did my Python training with Dr. Chuck Course on Coursera. He is an Excellent Teacher!. Thanks David for interviewing him.

[@robertcrier3551]

Thank you David for all the work put into your video's, I really love watching your video's. As a computer enthusiast I really am so grateful that people like you exist and hope to give back to the community one day. Keep doing what makes you happy because you are making everyone around the youtube community happy.

[@toddboothbee1361]

I love the idea of becoming a master programmer when I go out to mix it up with the world, instead of finding a single skill (i.e. React) or stack (usually MERN) to find the right sized and shaped hole to fit myself into. A master programmer will greater flexibility, and more enjoyment, and more likely to be a successful freelance/consultant when striking out independently.

[@LearningandTechnology]

Wonderful interview. As an applied skills educator myself, Dr. Chuck's viewpoints on education resonate. Building hands-on learning with an applied practicum has been very successful for our students - it's a perfect way to work with industry and provide a win-win-win scenario. A key os to have dedicated resources on campus that work with your local employers - and then deliver quality students to them for their practicums.

[@dersg1freak]

My mentor showed me two things. Bare python basics in a 100 line script and the phrase rtfm. The best tips I got were 'patience', 'think'. And I really believe this is really all it takes, as all the information is out there and freely available. So how to get good? Don't stop learning and keep working with stuff. And don't be afraid. I taught a friend of mine programming in r, without prior knowledge. Easy. Difference just being syntax sugar and some scribbles on a cheatsheet. And the same goes for anything in general. Drawing connections between these things is what makes you resourceful in practice, and fortunately that's what our brain does when we feed it with information. After 6 intense blissfull and painful years I've come to the conclusions: that trying to understand how everything fits together is a waste of time in most cases, half of the work takes place on that second brain(Google) and questioning your assumptions actually really hard. The toughest aspect though is being economical. It's way too easy to get caught up trying to reinvent the wheel(just better) without noticing it.

[@moneymaker7307]

Learning core CS fundamentals actually helps you become a great engineer. From someone who have worked and at FAANG with engineers that have solid CS skill and non tech companies that don’t test CS rigor of candidates. The main difference I noticed is that people from Non CS background get stuff done but they do it at a slower pace and people with CS degree tend to find solution and unblock their self very fast. I work at non tech companies now and I only put in about 10 hours of work a week and I am super star on my team. Without a CS degree, I won’t have my current work balances.

[@kenjo3045]

Excellent discussion. I am also a programming instructor although my background is in Electrical Engineering. I share the same passion and goals as Dr. Chuck.

[@solomonvandi8483]

deve I am SELF-EDUCATOR so you mean a lot to me and others much appreciated

[@davidbombal]

Thank you Solomon. Lots of free resources available today. Dr Chuck is doing great things including working on a internship to get more people into the industry :)

[@_Garm_]

Was a great intervju dr Chuck, had exactly the same experience, i thought taking computer science, i would learn more and deeper programming but ended up taking one bazillion math classes and and other useless classes like religion, history, some political, poetry classes.. etc.. and few classes regarding programming. later on when i was looking for jobs, it was super hard did take some additional courses in the mean while looking for jobs, when i got a job through my friend, then i realized that every thing i learned in Uni, was not how companies operated or how they where writing their code.. :D

[@brettmurphy7588]

I dropped out of CS, feeling isolated and alone. I hated the way we did assignments with very little support. 6 years later I came back to programming through my own passion project. That catapulted me to the position I am in now. I am a developer and scrummaster for an integrated team with varied backgrounds and we have great foundation of trust built on psychological safety. I can think aloud without judgment and everyone gives mentorship and is open to mentorship. A world away from the competition of a cs class jockeying for the best GPA. Throw away your ego and embrace the wealth of knowledge in your colleagues. And then celebrate them. Pursue the things that engage you and be altruistic in your quest for knowledge. These are things they won't teach you, but are far more valuable than a CS degree.

[@reecetrahan6169]

What would you say is required to earn a higher salary as a programmer? Like what education is necessary?

[@mahmoodulhassan6607]

Dr. Chuck, it doesn't surprise me when you talked about your brother in law. I'm one of those guys and now I'm registered in a college for get masters in IT. Thanks for all your support and efforts to the IT, community. Also I'm getting some certs on the way. Thanks for the great video gentlemen.

[@fernando_dominguez]

This was awesome! Thank you so much for arranging this interview, I recently started Dr. Chuck's "Python for everybody..." Course and I'm very happy to know where I am heading 🙂

[@Traumatree]

"The system is broken" - completely. And yes, schools or institutions don't make programmers or network engineers or devops : those people are like that naturally. Forcing them to pass certification and what not isn't required for them but the system is broken towards having people with certs and diplomas. Edit1: This is so true: When you learn about something and then you get "quizzed" about it on subject that are completely irrelevant is what also turn me off. Exactly what happens in CCNA certs exam when they want you to type lines of 200+ characters just to setup ACLs that you will probably never do in your career because technology as moved from that, better technologies exists to do the job and a lot more adequately. Edit2: OMG, that Dr Chuck is wonderful! I am updating this comment as I am listening and Dr Chuck is putting words to thoughts I wasn't able to explain for my entire life. When he says "the Math purists won" I can't agree more with him. I never liked math - even though I was good - and all my CS classes of the 80s & 90s revolve around that allllll the time. It is only when I started to program professionally that finally I started to enjoy programming and let my creativity & imagination be "liberated" from that jail that my mind was put in decades before. Edit3: Here I disagree with Dr Chuck on being able to "create programmers" that can be hired below "msrp". Because when you do that, you dilute the pool of professionals and you undermine those that have worked hard all their life to achieve what they have today. If there is a high demand for a skill, well, companies have to pay for it. It is like that for every other thing on this Earth so why programmers should be different. What is happening on the West coast of the USA is not the reflection of the rest of the world. A 100k$ job in Burlington, Vermont is worth 350K$ in Seatle, Washinton is what is wrong in our industry. Programming shouldn't be "geographical" because Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc are all located there. Edit4: So for his Sakai project, he wan't to hire master programmers at 40k$.. I call this exploitation. And having to go through "his" gauntlet of requirements is a kind of illitism. Now the more I listen, the less I agree with his vision of how to achieve his noble goals he said early in the interview.

[@RickHenderson]

Sakai is an open source learning platform / cms. They can’t pay the overinflated salary that US programmers talk about. People that work on Sakai likely aren’t looking for great pay - they do it because they believe in the outcome.

[@ericbarlow6772]

I agree my computer science degree has allowed me to learn a lot easier because I can see the connections and fit the puzzle pieces easier than someone who may only have a certification in an area. Hearing your conversation I'm not sure if my university had a more rigorous curriculum compared to others. Granted I graduated in 2002 so it's been 20 years now. I was taught in C, C++ and Java from my first semester. C provided the groundwork, C++ taught OOD/P and Java was a department decision b/c of its portability. My curriculum was definitely focused on programming but I did have to model an 8-bit CPU in my introduction to computer engineering course. (We used a tool called Powerview on UNIX.) I had to take computer architecture from a professor who helped develop the Manchester Encoding schema. I also had a senior project that was a group project and I couldn't graduate until it was done and worked. One thing I did notice is there were about 100 people in each class in my first year but by the third year we were lucky to get 10 people per class.

[@pyhead9916]

Smaller, personal classes are better and students can't cheat from each other. Everyone must pull their weight in small courses.

[@skinnytimmy1]

Really needed this, I have an interview with Amazon coming up. I have intermediate knowledge of Python, can solve problems on leetcode, but i have yet to build a project. I can use his courses as a curriculum to prepare.

[@lewessays]

I remember being introduced to programing through Binaries(0&1s) and C++ imagine my reaction to programming... that destoryed my love for computers and programming. Glad, I am back at it. Thanks to my 4 month's volunteer time at a non-profit tech company(Break diving) and Dr. Chuck.

[@derekmahoi864]

Wow, what a guest dr chuck is my mentor this man is really good in what he does. he is the reason why I learn python easily

[@1379546]

To me computer science never been about programming i don't know why employers insists haring based on having a computer science degree as a most for even a system administrator position programmer are software engineer computer science is about algorithms and a broad knowledge about computation system in general they may develop very efficient algorithms and theoretical/practical tools that will be implemented and engineered base on real life constrains to products

[@lodragan]

I started programming in High School in 1981 - learning Basic, and Fortran. I never stopped learning before and after going to University for a Computer Science degree (I served in the military before going to college, and had my own computer that I made noddy little programs on, and continued RTFM on various topics and languages). After university I was employed to a telecom company, and the longest lasting program I created was thousands of lines of code, had a useful lifespan of 20 years when the systems it was on were retired from the network. I introduced basic software engineering and management for my teams, such as version control systems, test based development, and migrated from perl to python for our production tools to gain advantages of (mostly) one way to do something over perl's a million different ways to do one thing. There was so much resistance to those changes from the teams, but I was successful being a mentor to my team. I'm semi-retired, starting my own contractor business, and I'm going to make time to go through Dr Chuck's course. You have to be willing to learn, no matter how old you are. Funny you mentioned object oriented courses - my university taught that via a C++, Java, and Lisp course (python & jango didn't exist) - this of course included recursion via Lisp - and this was in my 3rd year (around 1991) - so clearly some universities were still not following CS1 that late in the game. The early first year "filter" course was the Unix shell programming course that included learning the unix shell CLI, and basic system programming using sh, sed, awk, and perl. Following that was a Unix systems programming course that added C programming to the mix. I remember at the beginning of the course, there were 60 people or more in the hall. At the end, there were about 15 of us left. I think there is a fundamental problem in terms of IT culture at my telecom company that allocates programmers to new code, and then quickly rotates them out after a release - to do another project. Meanwhile, some lowly newbie coder is put on maintenance --- and similarly by the time he becomes good, he is then snatched up into a development team for new projects. No one lives with the code long enough to be really knowledgeable. I was lucky to avoid a lot of that myself for my internal systems, but as a client owner of some hosted systems later in my career, I was a victim of this lack of ownership from the programming side of the business in terms of fixing bugs quickly, and slowness of change for existing code bases. Changes required new projects, with a whole team of new programmers who had to spend months getting up to speed on the existing code base. In short, it was a disaster. I hope your course changes the culture and face of programming that have entrenched "Math" based Computer Science that doesn't really serve its adherents or the world in general. Great interview! 😃

[@ObaidahNaseer]

"When you think the journey ends, is when the journey begins" ~ Dr Chuck

[@mohabkhaled1391]

I can't describe how this impacted, absolute legend..

[@vyasG]

Very Powerful interview. Thank you both for this interview. David Bombal is amazing in finding and interviewing great people. I am so glad that I'm following you - which is the reason I get to know about all these passionate and top notch people.

[@فكر_معايا]

thank you man. i want you to know that, you are changing lives, and futures of families. so from the bottom of my heart THANK YOU.

[@davies8183]

Dr Chuck is a global treasure and should be protected at all costs. You guys are my mentors.

[@ladonwilliams1333]

So much appreciation and respect for “Uncle Chuck”😅. He was the one who got me over my anxiety about conquering Python. Can’t wait to check out his other courses.

[@bananaskin7527]

Very interesting. Remember Laugh-In? I don't know about Python, not disrespectful, but I happen to have chosen Perl 5. Not formally trained. Too old. Recently had some interns, and I mentioned Open Source - Perl, 5 Apache Open Office, and Password Safe, and I added "And I donate". Good luck Dr. Chuck. Thank you David Bombal.

[@mayavik1034]

Dr. Severance is the Man, the Myth, the Legend . He does so much for didactic learners, it's unbelievable. Thank you Dr. Severance for everything you do. Really appreciate it.

[@melvinaragon2248]

Thank you Both for the time and mentoring us.

[@1Eagler]

In 1995, i was given 2.000+ code of PL/I with 100s of goto to find a bug. I figured out that the previous programmer only used if and goto but didn't use if-then-else, while, for, etc and he coded like coding RPG! One of the hardest work in my life - lost more hair that the number of lines.

[@husseindhooma5816]

Once again David you nailed another fantastic interview with Dr Chuck, I browsed Dr Chuck's KZbin videos a while back, but to see this interview and his passion for us as his students is amazing. Once again you have done the incredible David and Opened up so many KZbinr's like myself's eyes to another world, my first for me was your interview with Neal Bridges and now Dr Chuck. I just want to say thank you for being an inspiration and guiding us on these paths. Oh and not to forget congrats on reacking 900K. I see 1 million on the horizon good sir. Well done.

[@cristigdv]

Great video David. In my opinion this is the best video so far that I have seen on your channel. Your not only posting videos just for the sake of it but actually motivating people to change their lives, something that cannot be learned from a book. Keep up the great work and thank you for your time for creating such a great content

[@ChristopherMartinez-su8ps]

Needed to hear to hear this. Thank you David for having an interest or maybe a passion for helping others accomplish there goals and dreams in the great world of IT. You have been a very positive influence on my journey in the world of IT and I recently got on board in 2020. So everything is still basically new to me. Love all your positive posts on KZbin LinkedIn and IG. You speak to me everyday with those. You always bring in Great guest but this one really got to me. Gave me a better understanding of which direction I need to move forward on. Thank you sir.

[@cowl6867]

Severance is a G. The guy is the reason why I can program today and in just 2 months I'm at a 2 year university level

[@randexco]

This man truly is a saint. Computers have been my passion sense I was in middle school in the 90s but the roller coaster of life has had me driving a truck for the last 8 years and even tho I make good money, I'm truly save deeply unhappy. We need more people life this gentleman

[@adivakhaledi]

Thank you Dr for teaching in a way that makes it easy to learn, you’re a Godsend to so many 🙏

[@ryan3993]

I really appreciate what you do David, thank you so much!

[@davidbombal]

Thank you Ryan! You're welcome!

[@Norman_Fleming]

I love this mans ideas. Being able to function as a drop-in and learning the system, being able to apply broad knowledge. chefs-kiss

[@ShootingUtah]

I'm currently in my last year for a B.S. in computer science at a school that claims to be more geared towards industry and apparently gets rated highly by industry in achieving that goal. Yet I have been quite frustrated in the lack of teaching around topics like debugging for example. I've had to teach myself to become more efficient and effective at debugging and consider it a skill in and of itself. Decoding a C/C++ error message and then actually finding what the real problem is can be extremely difficult and esoteric. Another problem is every time I start to get comfortable with a given language I'm forced to start a new one. I've now had to use SQL, MySQL, Several flavors of Assembly, C, C++, C#, Java, JavaScript, Typescript, Node, SML, OCAML, Rust, Racket, Python 2, Python 3, Bash and bash scripts, even Turing Machines, and deterministic and nondeterministic finite automata! And of course some amount of actual binary. So for 4 years of school this is so much exposure to so many languages, concepts, protocols, paradigms, etc that doesn't even include the mathematics and you never get to master any of them. Like another comment stated, maybe this is done to repeatedly force you to solve problems outside of your comfort zone to make you a master at using any tool to solve a problem. But it's still frustrating watching some code boot camp kid making awesome things that I don't know how to do but I can tell they don't know how anything they're doing is actually working or happening or why it's done that way. Haha anyways just my rant.

[@sadCatOwner]

I learned PHP from him. He explains complex things very nicely, and doesn't have much longer explanations either. also l loved when he went on a short rant on what languages he would love to teach a class on, he sounded very passionate.

[@MinisterRedPill]

Been in IT for 5-6 years and just now getting my CS degree. You don't need it to be successful but it is a good crutch to have. All in all, if you know how to network and sell yourself, build some projects and prove your worth, then you're good to go without a degree.

[@rytsydup]

Love this guy. Thank you for having him as a guest, David.

[@agbosteve1]

David thank you for this interview, Dr. Chuck had changed the narrative of learning especially in programming.

[@shannonthomas3585]

I came across this video while looking through some AZ-900 material as I'm trying to prepare for certification in DevOps and I gotta say, this guy is really interesting in the way he presents his topics, materials, and understanding of core concepts even regular people who are trying to get into programing or writing code can learn irrespective of where you currently are, where you are going, and where you'd eventually like to end up in your tech career. I'm 30 now and I wish I learned some of these concepts sooner back when I was in college and high school but I eventually carved the path out for where I am now and I'm continuing pursuing this path so I can impart the same wisdom and knowledge I gain to those younger then myself wanting to get into IT and tech. Hoping I get to start Python on freecodecamp soon as I have a lot of things I want to learn and programming is there alongside DevOps and networking. I will also check out Dr Chuck's Coursera courses as well as it sounds like a great place to start learning basic programming and developing your skills further from there

[@thisbridgehascables]

As a Magento 2 developer.. thousands of lines of code is an understatement. Building extension modules teaches one a lot of dependency injection and created many object/class based structures to solve problems.. it can be fun and frustrating I’d love to see a course where some one builds from nothing an application with hand picked composer packages to construct a scale open source framework..

[@educastellini]

-I love the content Professors De. Chuck and David...!!! -You basically said what I always say: "The Academy is too slow to keep up with the IT market because it's much faster..." and the American and first world reality is much faster than the one in Brazil where I live . -You guys basically discussed a lot of what I tell my wife that I'm mentoring in IT and I created a path for her where she started learning Python, Django and Web nowadays I'll then put her to learn Linux Sys Admin. and starting a career in IT. -Well I work with IT for more than 20 years but I started as a technician in Electronics and Robotics in the 90's programming microprocessors and controllers in Assembly and I migrated to a professional in a military data center most of it and more than 10 years ago I entered the Bachelor of Systems Analysis and development here in Brazil and here basically there are only 3 major courses in Universities here: Systems Analysis, Computer Science and now they have Data Science. -I left Systems Analysis because their focus was Dev of software manufacturing based on Java language and I wanted Sys. Admim, Network and Infrastructure Engineering and yes Software at the time, the professors wanted me to finish the course and then do a master's degree and teach there in those areas that I like, and I said that as soon as there were courses in my area and I would come back , and more than 10 years later still does not exist. -Here in Brazil you are not looking for Network Engineers but "Network Analysts" (which are Systems Analysts who have Network certification). -See I love programming in Bash Script, C++ and Python, Ansible but in my area which is infrastructure. - That's why I sold everything I had and was going before the Pandemic and going to college in Canada in Sys. Adm. and Network Admin. and the pandemic came and I lost everything. -And basically during the Pandemic studying I did 5 certifications (CCNA, JNCIA, NSE 1, 2, Oracle Cloud Architect and now Linux Sys. Admin. LPIC-1) in a cabin in the middle of the forest with an old computer studying basically with com courses like yours on Udemy. -And this year I'm going to be LPIC-2 Linux Engineer and LPIC-3 Linux Security Engineer, apart from Cloud and Kubernets that I'm going to do this year. -What I see is that the college or university teaches the basis of a lot of things but not in terms of being able to work (at least all the ones I looked at) they give you a basis for everything and then the person can evolve and possibly learn more working as a Junior at the beginning and evolving by studying more and doing certifications, so yes the university is useful to teach this base but it does not create professionals, studying at the level of a professional certification I think it tests you in what the market wants and not what that the academy considers right. -Who should run the academies and courses should be what the job market needs (Linkedin), not what academics want (not the college). -But I want and will immigrate to the first world so that my wife can study Software Engineering and I myself can study a College in my area and maybe teach there in the first one. world. -Many thanks to professors Chuck and David for the very useful knowledge...!!!

[@Kiyotaka_Ayanokoji_kun]

Thanks you David Sir, I always love your interview videos. Also I have watched Charles python course. Also Congratulations on 900k subs. Hope we will reach 1 million soon.

[@davidbombal]

Thank you very much!

[@deltabytes]

Amazing souls. I am always learning my way to open source. Thanks a million Dr. Chuck and David Bombal.

[@dystopian_1]

Dr. Chuck has some really fun ways of teaching hard topics. He is an incredible teacher.

[@Nasengold]

I'm enjoying his Python course right now. I have to admit I use other learning tools as well to round everything up but he is very good in explaining the concepts.

[@TheElectronicDilettante]

2.4 million students?? That’s amazing!! Not a lot of one on one time with his students. It’d probably take a few lifetimes to meet them all… 😅. All joking aside, it’s a great thing he’s given to the world. Thanks. I’m nearly 50y.o. , changing careers (for the third time) and I think programming is going to be a huge part of the field I decide to land on. I look forward to checking out his course and hope I can take advantage of this opportunity he’s giving everyone. And the system is definitely broken and appears to be gangrenous.