Gravel and Stuff - not as interesting as it sounds

Actually this film shows the structure of the layers in the planted zone and is in response to lots of questions on the subject from my fantastic subscribers. Hope it helps.

[@patrick_pkp]

Had no idea that there should be that third textile layer separating the lower gravel from the higher sand/gravel mix ... but that model showed it all super clearly, and it makes perfect sense. Many thanks for making that & sharing it!

[@zazugee]

you can do away with it, if you can screen gravel to little pubbles to coarse sand then fine sand, but too much work i did this for a drum that acted like a sand filter

[@FelipeSantos-sw4kk]

You explained very well, today I live in an apartment, but one day I'll live in a house and will make a pond like yours. Thanks for all the information David.

[@Fundee.isaan.retreat]

It was very interesting…….special the extra focus on geotextile between gravel and substrate……..thank you

[@dugalreid8933]

Marvellous, very interesting and helpful, thank you. Happy New Year

[@usablake]

Love your videos David! Happy to see more.

[@user-zi9es6rf9o]

Thank you a lot from Russia. Very useful information.

[@MattJonesBedwas]

Thanks David, this is a very useful video. That little model explains is so clearly.

[@JohnKrakatoa]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience! Master ponder!

[@stephdechatillon6591]

Very interesting and helpful vidéo. Thank you for sharing it.

[@capozzaseppe2255]

Thanks a lot , David. Best wishes for a bright 2021!

[@philippefenain4405]

Great piece of information. Thank you very much.

[@jackstone4291]

Video, great. Dry practical informative narrative - even better. Great videos !

[@edbenedicto]

Roots were my problem, not silt using only lava rock in my 3 ft upwelling bog filter. But I changed to a deeper basin so the rocks are more than a foot deep (no fabric). The marginal roots don’t go down that deep - I think/hope. More than a year and still running. Cheerio.

[@markauster6068]

Yes, I too will one day build my own!

[@brianhina]

Thanjks for showing this. I am building mine next year

[@mckatelynchristensen]

Simple but very informative and important

[@alvinkong6528]

Great video and thank you for sharing

[@elaleph5512]

Gracias por compartir tus resultados y experiencia.

[@LadyElsena]

This is really wonderful, thank you!

[@paulbaker3144]

Ah, I was wondering about the layers in our gravel filter. This would work wonderfully. I’m also considering a floating solar array to power the air pumps etc. And to create some shade and shelter for the creatures in the pond.

[@olegpavlov9717]

Hi David! It seems that the top layer of mixed sand and gravel could be replaced by just a gravel. No need for sand.

[@photographe06]

Same question here.

[@davidmarshall4779]

That’s the very point I would like to ask. I have built large pool 20mx12m 2m deep, based on your pdf instructions. But I couldn’t get the owner or the contractors to agree to include sand as they were convinced it would block water flow. So I am hoping it will work. We used 40mm down to 20mm stone 400mm deep. Would love to know the answer, if just for price of mind.

[@prydprydi]

Same question here.

[@cobre7717]

The sand does 2x 1) it helps trap the smaller organic material away from the third level of fiber /fabric. Otherwise debris would clog up the fiber layer right away vs 15-20 years. And 2) the sand adds lots of surface area for the roots and most importantly the beneficial bacteria for the nitrogen cycle to live on. 3) it also slows down the current and spreads the flow evenly through outthe regeneration zone. Otherwise the water would just rush straight into the perforated return lines/ bubble lift intake

[@tondenockay1296]

@@cobre7717 So the down flow bog filter will get clogged at some point then? I ask because I keep getting told that Aquascape goes with the up flow bog filter so that it doesnt get clogged.

[@DaveDoesOutdoors]

Good vid One day I will be coming to you to help us build a organic pool that I can swim in every day ideally all year round ( Scotland but do able ) atb my man 👍🏽

[@AndrewJames92]

Would love to know how long you have gotten the top geotextile layer to last without clogging? I can't see how the top geotextile layer won't eventually fail - be it in 3, 5 or 10 years' time. Geotextile (like any filter membrane) surely will eventually clog as fine silt as well as organic matter will always be moving up against it unless you can ensure that it gets trapped in the top sand/gravel layer but silt being smaller than sand particles will travel down. This is what common sense as well as experience building pools, greywater wetlands, french drains etc has taught me but would love to see evidence that I am wrong as your method shown here uses 75% less gravel. cheers.

[@timgillman]

You make an interesting point. Since it is landscaping fabric that is designed to let water pass through when it is buried in dirt, it might not clog as fast as a fabric "sock" over a french drain. It would have to clog over the entire surface of the gravel, not just right above the pipe.Maybe that means 15, 20 or 30 years. By then it might be time to redesign anyway. I'm on my third pond, each one has been bigger tat the one before. Now I am interested in making one to swim in. I think this is brilliant info.

[@johnlarkin9594]

@@timgillman Excellent point about the membrane, any suggestions on which membrane might be the best to buy to use on my swimming/pond that I'm slowly constructing.? Southampton UK

[@timgillman]

@@johnlarkin9594 I used EPDM Pond liner. You might check out DavidPaganButler on KZbin.

[@richardteychenne3950]

Now I understand, three layers of non woven textile, I had wondered how long the substrate would stay separate from the gravel zone. 😁🤣😎😎

[@r3sistxwampa685]

The exciting science of sand and gravel

[@blainehockley7485]

Thanks for your great video. I have a dug pond, no liner. I am considering using your idea still in my end filter air zone that has your gentle slope you have discussed. My question is about substrate. Can you explain and identify possible materials for use in Canada ponds. Thanks again.

[@boyangsun1324]

Thank you for your explanation, but how do you deal with the sediment under the pool？

[@tuttihacking5680]

Great video, David. Question: if I decide to not use sand/gravel for planting, and just use the same gravel all the way from top to bottom, do I still need a fabric divider (like to keep out roots maybe)? Do you think perforated drain pipe "socks" should be used to make sure the pipe holes don't get clogged?

[@photographe06]

Perhaps you could simply wrap geotextile around the drain?

[@Italanon]

Mine was built by someone who must have ‘learnt how to’, to a certain extent but it does not have a separate planting layer. If I recall correctly, the piping was wrapped in a fabric.

[@PrinceVaskur]

Might be heavier on your pumps. The big gravel will allow for easy waterflow in to the drain and also prevent the drain holes from clogging.

[@Italanon]

@@PrinceVaskur that was my point - it was ALL big gravel, no small

[@AndrewJames92]

@@Italanon How long has your pool be running successfully for?

[@Boscovius]

What do you suppose would happen if you made it so that the water in the drainage tube percolated up through the gravel and sand medium? Would the natural processes be negatively impacted? Or would they not even notice?

[@prydprydi]

Нello David! An excellent illustration of what is happening in the pond. Please tell me, after some time, the geotextile stops passing water ? Is the geotextile clogged with sand and silt? Thank you for the video! Denis.

[@AndrewJames92]

This is exactly my main concern with this approach. I have emailed David about this before and never heard back from him. I build natural pools but use a different method. I would be very hesitant to try this method. I can't see how the top geotextile layer won't eventually fail - be it 3,5 or 10 years' time. Geotextile (like any filter membrane) will eventually clog as fine silt will always be moving up against it. This silt could be blown in by the wind etc. David, If you read this, I would love to hear your response. As this method certainly saves on cost as you end up using 75% less gravel (which is a big cost).

[@fullcircledesignsllc5408]

I built one for my client and just used layers of stone as follows 1”, then 3/4” then pea gravel. Was costly but feel this is a better method than the geotextile as it should still filter well and I don’t have to worry about clogged geotextile.

[@cobre7717]

Every 8 years you put 8 liters of 80% nitric acid in pool for every 8sq meters of water volume to dissolve the silt. Its the 8-8-80-8 rule everyone is talking about.

[@johnhildebrand8740]

David - how far do you separate your 4” pipes in the gravel layer?

[@user-dn5wy4om3b]

Hi David, many thanks for the informative video. Could you please tell me what type of gravel (clean or ph neutral?) and sand and gravel you recommend. We are just at the fleece and liner stage of our build and I’m getting nervous something will go wrong. Many thanks Richard

[@ianmyhill5156]

Hi David thanks for the information and sharing it! Just one question the drainage coil do you cap it or leave open in the stone substrate? Thanks

[@michawoo3059]

i suppose that overtime roots will go thru the fleece, right? is there any way to avoid plastic nonwoven in organic pools?

[@paulodeoliveira3368]

Thank you for a fantastic example and explanation, but I don't understand why you run the bubblers through the geopipe and drain water through it?

[@Italanon]

I imagine that pipe you show runs parallel to the side of the pond (assuming it has a straight edge) and has many small holes in it to enable the water to be drawn in? You perhaps fail to mention this?

[@Sidiosquisiera]

He stated that it is perforated

[@conormcnamee6367]

how long to you think this system will work? 20 years before it breaks down ?

[@flairmaister]

can the plants also grow in just the gravel without adding sand?

[@tondenockay1296]

Hi I was wondering your thoughts on down flow vs up flow wetland bog filters?

[@jordansilotti1283]

David, is there a good way to contact you? I want to inquire about your thoughts on a potential application of these pools.

[@neenakeioskie6724]

Thanks David that was great. Could you make an episode explaining downwards filtration as opposed to upwards filtration. Is one better then the other ?. ❤️

[@nolan5320]

Downward is better as gunk accumulates on top and easy to clean

[@nolan5320]

Hi David, is bidim sufficient for both under and over liner?

[@remcodevries932]

Up to what level is the waterlevel in this model? Is that about where the plants are at I guess?

[@Piccyman1]

My garden has puddling clay about 6" below the top soil, it's also gravel free and retains water, is it possible to make an organic pond with koi, without using a liner?

[@cobre7717]

You need a biological area to alow the nitrogen cycle to take place. Look up nitrogen cycle and biological bacteria growing media.

[@harleco1]

I worked for Dresser Magcobar in the 70's.

[@HallHomestead]

Should make a video about filtering your way vs using filter media in a container.

[@cobre7717]

that was the entire point of this video. The gravel and sand act as the filtermedia. The bubble lift draws the water through the sand and gravel via the perforated pipe.

[@shelly4240]

I am trying so hard to figure out a natural pool I have been charged with I don't believe it's done right and I want to fix it but no one is in my area that knows anything. Do you do any consulting work my brother wants to put in a chlorine pool and turn it into koi pond but I'm just so sad for that 😢 I have no idea how to fix the existing pool and generation area I spent 3 days draining cleaning it out and it's getting algea

[@spoddie]

I don't want to alarm you, but I saw a panther walking past in the background

[@agplay2290]

Haha

[@rosanadancel7225]

We’re then the water go?

[@organic1231]

Hi David, i send you an email a couple months ago. I want It to buy the complete PDF format how to build a natural pool. Can you check your spam, or tell me how do we go about it, im still interested. Thank you for this video very well explained.

[@agplay2290]

Fabulous

[@user-ny5kl1sd3q]

Why only half of the pool is with plants and functions as a wetland and half of the pool is just gravel that you call "beach". Obviously there are microorganisms and life there too but is not it better that 100 percent around the pool be plants? tankyou!!

[@edbenedicto]

3ft diameter

[@phannguyen8824]

badly presented not clearly worded, this is an engineering design !!!

[@francus7227]

You will need to watch about 10 of his other videos to get the full design.