DDR5 Configurations and Quad-DIMM Limitations

[@GameTechReviews]

4-DIMM (2DPC) 2 rank at speeds of 4400-4800MT/s is the upper limit on what is achievable on Intel's current platform. Anything beyond that becomes unstable without significant manual changes in the UEFI. Another thing to note, if mixing different RAM kits, it's best to isolate them to separate memory channels to account for micro-differences between batch manufacturing. Currently if someone wants to run 4-DIMM for the aesthetics, the AMD X870E can handle 2DPC 1R at 6000MT/s. I have recent videos showcasing this.

[@PE4Doers]

Thanks for all the extra information.

[@mrcivster]

When using 4 sticks or two pairs, each pair needs to be installed in the same channel. In other words, the first pair out of the box goes to A1 and A2 slots and the other pair goes to B1 and B2.

[@PE4Doers]

Is that something you actually tried? I only ask since I tried this test at least half a dozen times, and I did not keep track of which were paired after the 1st try, with the same results for every attempt. I did see a video from anther creator, and your suggestion is what she suggested when using two kits with mismatched timing, however, she was also manually tweaking the frequency on the mother, which was not my intent to lead people through in this video.

[@LZRVS]

​@@PE4Doers Gskill is specifically finicky to get right. Shuffling the sticks placement in the 4 slots should get you to a scenario where the board successfully trains the RAM. Ideally with pre-paired kits you should follow the channel matching as the commenter said, but if that doesn't work, I'd shuffle the sticks around.

[@PE4Doers]

@@LZRVS OK, I will shuffle some more.

[@LZRVS]

@@PE4Doers I used 4 sticks in my graphic design workstation and did some testing for my ideal setup (labeled each stick, tested mem performance in Windows). You're not chasing speed as a content creator, you want stability and quantity. Therefore, a 128GB bank is worth the bother IMO. Good luck.

[@PE4Doers]

@@LZRVS Thanks for the suggestion

[@mikeschneider3648]

I have two different MoBos using effectively the same ram (admit the XMP speeds are different) The GigaByte board with B650 chipset needed to have the ram voltage upped a little (was running 1.01 and I set to 1.1) and the voltage be controlled through all ram sticks individually. This allows my 4 sticks to Boot quick with XMP enable and full speed of the ram. The MSI board with the x670e is a bit different where I have had the issue for a couple years till MSI released a BIOS update 3 months back. I would still have really long training times, but the system would boot with RAM at full XMP speed (again, 4 sticks). Recently, I started messing around with Overclocking and come across the possibility that this board was also using too low of voltage for the RAM (right at the edge). I don't have the option for the voltage to be on individual sticks like the B650 but I could up the voltage to where the ram should be running. This Voltage adjustment (setting to 1.25v per XMP specs of my ram), solved the extremely long training time (cut by half) and I have stable full XMP speed on my 4 Sticks on this system. If curious, I use four sticks for the stupidest reason. I use RGB ram, and I like to have all 4 slots filled with the RGB. Otherwise, it feels like the system is missing something. I also recently learned that the maker of my ram does make Dummy RGB sticks. Oops..

[@PE4Doers]

Interesting. Thanks for the feedback. As I mentioned in my introduction, my intent was NOT to have the viewers of the video try and play with either the Voltages or Timing of the memory. I decided that very much based on the problems Intel is having with the Gen 13 and Gen 14th (Raptor Lake) CPUs. Though I know how those parameters work (being a Professional Engineer, specializing in computer engineering). I really do not feel comfortable making recommendations on changes to those parameters for the general computer-building population. It is possible that damage could result, and I do not want to be responsible for having encouraged such changes.

[@mikeschneider3648]

@@PE4Doers it's not just Intel. both systems I was talking about are AMD with Nvidia GPUs. I understand your thoughts on the tweaking the system as messing with voltages (I don't mess with the timings, only enable XMP) can damage the system. I only now found out that my MSI x670-e board was not setting the correct voltages as required for the RAM in XMP mode, same as the other AMD system with the b650 chipset. Looks to be a vendor configuration failure. Didn't really take the time to troubleshoot till I built the second system a couple weeks ago. I'm also Professional engineer, specializing in IT Infrastructure, and a Professional electronics technician.

[@PE4Doers]

@@mikeschneider3648 Thanks so much for the great information for my viewers.. Us PE need to stick together 🙂

[@Chewy6909]

Please help me. I have a msi b650 tomahawk mother board. I can only run 4 sticks at 5600. At 6000 I get blank screen. Any help would be great. Thanks

[@mikeschneider3648]

@@Chewy6909 I'm not sure what CPU you are using to wanting 6000 but there is a good chance you will need to stick with 5600 if you get black screen at 6000. Besides upping the voltage (I do not recommend unless you know exactly what you are doing and the specs of all the hardware, otherwise you will break the system), there isn't much there these days. Maybe timings, but that is also a dangerous position. also to note. I build a third system with an x670-e ASUS board and was unable to get 6 sticks working this that regardless of configuration. In the end, I've updates all 3 systems with 2x 32GB sticks running at 6000 which has provided much better performance than running 4 sticks.

[@SaccoBelmonte]

That is a known issue with DDR4 and DDR5. The more RAM (dimms) you put the slower it will go. This might change on the upcoming AMD MOBOs and upcoming CPUs (I know you're on an intel platform). It depends on the CPUs integrated memory controller (lottery) and MOBO topology. As you found, the safest bet is 2 dimms for a total of 96GB.

[@PE4Doers]

Thanks for the comment. I guess we just have to wait and see where the new technology leads us.

[@timothyburke7226]

Personally when building Asus AM5 platforms I noticed the memory training took longer every boot when enabling EXPO (XMP for AMD). Played with the memory timings manually and same issue. Stability was a more pressing issue and decided to leave timings on default without EXPO. Something with the Asus memory training routine at least on AM5.

[@PE4Doers]

OK, thanks.

[@FernandoAMarroquin]

Very good. I learn something new. what if we put four units of 48GB each?

[@PE4Doers]

If your motherboard supports that, it would be a total of 192GB. However, the DIMMs would likely be limited in terms of the speed they could achieve - something a lot less than what they could support.

[@ronm6585]

Thank you David.

[@PE4Doers]

That you for the nice comment

[@kanetechnical2959]

Why do you clear the BIO each time when you reloading memory sticks?

[@PE4Doers]

I found if I don't do that, then the memory training not only takes longer, but it actually makes mistakes that lead to a Blue Screen withing a few minutes of running any version of windows.

[@chionyenkwu2253]

This is good; However my understanding is that to get best performance from 4 sticks you need to get a "four stick kit" i.e 4 x 32 or 4 x 16 -- combining a pair of two stick kits is not the best.

[@PE4Doers]

I have heard that as well, however those kits are somewhat rare and quite expensive (>800.00$ from one quad kit I recently priced). Also, there are different opinions on that, with the majority believing that the current memory controllers are just not up to the task yet to size for the higher frequencies. With "Moore's law" however, we should be past that within the next couple of years with the newer CPU's and new motherboards.

[@chionyenkwu2253]

@@PE4Doers I actually have a live example of this -- in a threadripper machine; where a single 4 stick 64GB kit of CL16 3600 RAM runs at its full xmp rated speed, however on adding a second identical kit, machine only booted successfully when I dropped frequency to 3000 (lower even than 3200). But yes a full 128GB kit of 8 sticks would have cost north of a thousand bucks 🤨🤨

[@PE4Doers]

@@chionyenkwu2253 Thanks. I am concerned that the Threadripper CPU Memory Manager due to the larger number of memory DIMM slots. I obviously don't know for certain, but hope to get one of those Workstation CPU chips someday in the future when they either send me one, or I have grown my Channel large enough to afford it with my business budget.

[@porkchoplets]

I use Corsair ddr5 6000MT/s 4 x 16GB modules on a Z690 Motherboard using all four channels and i have no issues with a i9 13900kf. It seems it is a lottery or Gskill memory is not that great. HWinfo reports the memory running at 6000MT/s and is stable. Windows 11 23H2

[@PE4Doers]

Wow, thanks for the information. I do not have any Corsair DDR5, but I will keep that in mind when I need to purchased more memory.

[@qwerty-dm8gr]

g.skill is fine, it's used by most overclockers, you're just a charlatan that just showed your hand. if you knew anything, you wouldn't be on a 13th gen intel.

[@Chewy6909]

You have all 4 sticks running at 6000?

[@rons4182]

You should not quit the memory training. Wait for the system to quit.

[@PE4Doers]

I fully agree. Did I quit?

[@jawnTem]

I saw your login password! *********

[@PE4Doers]

Congratulation 🙂 Good luck trying to use an internal PW.

[@jawnTem]

@@PE4Doers Lol! That was supposed to be a funny!

[@LZRVS]

Oh dang. I just learned server business owners are leaking to tech media info that Intel's new CPUs run more stable and degrade less if they run only 2 sticks on a 2 slot board at slower speeds, like 4400. Gaming servers with 4+ sticks struggled a lot with stability and degraded much faster. So, that would explain your situation why you had better results with 2 sticks.See podcast 'Broken silicon #267' on Moor's law is dead KZbin channel.

[@PE4Doers]

Thanks. That's very interesting. I will try and find out more about that.

[@ZombieLincoln666]

No the issue with 4 sticks of ddr5 is that the memory controllers can’t handle handle it

[@charlesg5085]

It's good to see such an openly gay man in the space...

[@PE4Doers]

Really? I haven't been tempted to being with another guy since I was a teenager, but have always been curious. Tell me about yourself 😉

[@charlesg5085]

@PE4Doers what!? Then why the gay behavior?

[@PE4Doers]

@@charlesg5085 Not sure, maybe you struck a nerve, or that last cocktail affected me more than I thought it would. Aren't you on that side of the fence?

[@charlesg5085]

@PE4Doers Not really, but there is nothing wrong with being LGBTQ! I am embarrassed now. I miss gendered you pretty badly. Communicating through chat like this can be problematic.

[@PE4Doers]

@@charlesg5085 No problem at all 🙂

[@qwerty-dm8gr]

4 dimms 6000mhz 7800x3d, you just need to know how to do timings, it's not for people who don't know what they're doing. Btw, it was pretty easy.

[@PE4Doers]

Thanks. I have done that myself, however I wanted to present things in this video that would be the most stable for the majority of viewers.

[@jackengels5077]

hi, could you point to a guide for this? but more importantly, is you system stable in that config?

[@PE4Doers]

@@jackengels5077 The only guide I used is the compatibility list for memory Brands/Speeds with my motherboard (shown on the ASUS website for my Z790 ProArt).

[@GameTechReviews]

@@jackengels5077 I have examples of how to run 4 sticks of DDR5.