Oblivion Leveling Explained - How the System Works

[@Finkelberry1871]

“That’s right you can turn this video off and just play the game” Alright you got it chief

[@odeleon24]

Challenge accepted

[@PwNaSaUrUsxLEET]

In my opinion, the dynamic difficulty was a step back. For the majority of players, not knowing the depth of the leveling system meant having to adjust the difficulty one or more times as the world dynamically adjusted. It's not fun or rewarding to have to use that slider. In fact, it makes you a little irritated and reduces immersion. Personally, I much prefer static world attributes like in Morrowind, so I can feel powerful when I've achieved the ability to defeat mobs that previously killed me. No one wants to spend 100 hours in a game just to have a sewer rat pose the same threat as it did in hour 1.

[@DVSPress]

The point was to allow you to do the content in any order you pleased. That's a big part of the fun and immersion.

[@PwNaSaUrUsxLEET]

@@DVSPress Different tastes, I suppose. For me, having cool content that I want yet able to do encouraged me to go out and explore/improve. Still played the heck out of oblivion, though.

[@zachcormier967]

@@DVSPress Fun I agree, immersion, not really. Maybe if it was a more challenging area, and for some reason said rat in that area for example was really dangerous, but going back to an early area and having something like that being able to compete with a geared and levelled character, which isn't immersive, but it does add more fun to those areas.

[@thaerahmed282]

I never use it I build 3x5 point every lvling up I find the game more balanced for this lvling type maybe I thinking slide it up but some time I change my mind because some monsters still over power the burn your 400 hp in seconds and your lvl still 17 they too 17 you know what I mean and last thing I dont find lvling up hard I mean all time I just fight and i don't train

[@Danarchy3]

David Stewart you don’t need this leveling system to do content in any order. How impressive is it to do a late game area down leveled to you? Where as a game that has static enemy levels in certain areas boasts bragging rights. I suppose this comes from a souls player mentality when you say “I beat the game and only leveled up to X”

[@Bassywassy20]

Beat the game today, and I'm still a little confused on how the game is arranged. Early levels are really easy, then around lvl 30 it got much harder, but having a ton of means at my disposal at lvl 48 (and having the Hatreds Soul bow) made it doable again. I understand now why people say Skyrim is much easier, because in comparison to Oblivion, it is. However, I'm not sure thats a good thing. There are elements in Oblivion that are unbalanced, and/or somtimes just plain unfair. A challenge is healthy, but is Bethesda's scaling system that throws things off. Weak enemies get only a little stronger, while the strongest enemies can become virtually impossible to kill (or take a ton of hits). After all this time I still do not understand why Bethesda made the choice to make monsters extremely resistant and regenerative when they're close to dying. Its one of the more frustrating and unreasonable aspects of the game. Both the most beautiful and most unbalanced aspect of the game is definitely enchanting and spellmaking. It makes a player pretty dependable on magic regardless of what you play, but it allows for some of the most interesting combinations in playstyle. It did, however, feel as if Bethesda didn't entirely research all the posibilities, because some of these things are completely abusable. For example, casting a 2 minute invisibility spell on ones self and run all the way from the gate to the sigil stone in an obliviongate avoiding any type of fighting. That said I have a huge admiration for the storyline and the colorfulness of Oblivion in comparison of Skyrim. In Oblivion it felt as if I'd worked for my status in guilds, and every storyline had a twist. In Skyrim you do 5 quests and then they're like - 'well that makes you the guildmaster I guess'. Overall I do love how Bethesda creates games that always become a part of you after a while, regardless of the graphics. Heck I'm used to Skyrim and thinking of beating Morrowind at this point.

[@kelmirosue3251]

I always preferred the leveling system of Skyrim as it genuinely feels nice. But the story system of Oblivion, as well as the speech system of Oblivion imo are better. I do wish the crafting system in Skyrim felt more interesting and involved tho, and the durability system of Oblivion is nice as well because you may need to switch weapons if one breaks since iirc you can't repair weapons in the middle of combat. So this makes holding 2-3 different weapons worth it

[@Kahnugo]

I think Oblivions leveling system is fundamentally flawed. It punishes you for roleplaying, as the optimal choices almost never make sense outside the spreadsheet. Furthermore it restricts your playstyle to cater boosting your skills rather than engaging with the content (if you care about character performance). To escape metagaming you have to accept that your character is most likely going to suck.

[@duadtheknifeofdunnwall9725]

It should be fixed in the remake but not making it easy like Skyrim

[@JPatTheDirector]

Once I realized the world around me only leveled with me, I began using the major/minor skills to avoid leveling(instead of not sleeping) for example selecting Block, Blunt and Heavy as major skills with no intention of ever equipping a mace, a shield, or heavy armor.

[@alexcrowder1673]

Thats exactly what i did. the leveling system in this game is unbelievably bad. It honestly ruined what could have been an amazing game. The game shouldnt require lying about your major and minor skills to even be playable.

[@S0n0fG0D]

By the way, what's the whole thing about efficient leveling and +5? I'm still confused on that aspect 😅

[@PopeDuwang]

@@alexcrowder1673I wish the Leveling for Monsters in Oblivion was tied to the value of Combat Related Skills, similar to Old School RuneScape. When you leveled up your crafting skills, your Combat Level was still low due to the fact that Crafting Levels ≠ Combat Level. A High Tier Blacksmith shouldn’t be fighting Dragons because they might not have the Highest Combat Level. They might if they focused on a weapon and/or type of armor. Same with Alchemy. Just because I got it to 100 in the beginning of Oblivion along with Armorer doesn’t mean I’m now ready for Minotaurs.

[@thefreshestslice4105]

When the only way to level "effectively" is to not use the skills that are supposed to be the entire basis of your career, you've done something wrong. That said, it's not nearly as bad as people say. The random bandits in glass and daedric armor though, is terrible. As is the NPCs not leveling with the world meaning if you want any to live, you have to stop leveling at 3-4(the minimum for Blood of the Daedra). Things like that all contribute to my dislike for Oblivion, regardless of how complex the systems in it are.

[@dangelini1137]

oblivion leveling system combined with the fact that monsters level with you forces you to train to level rather than just play and enjoy the game.

[@joelhodoborgas]

Just select skill you won't be using and you can fully control it.

[@Alaric11]

After your last Oblivion video I reinstalled it and played it to max level, it was a way different experience with properly maxed stats. I played until I had found every location and completed every quest. I also collected every unique staff for some reason.

[@DVSPress]

It's all about wabbajack.

[@MycketTuff]

You're a wizard Harry

[@bronntoise]

I dealt with the vanilla oblivion leveling system for multiple playthroughs years ago, but as of recently I'd recommend 5 mods that fix the experience quite nicely: - Ascension - Immersive Vanilla 'Overhaul' - All +5 Attribute Modifiers - Balanced Creature Stats - Fixed Level Scaling - Balanced NPC Level Cap - Logical Levels for All NPCs - Practical Training This combination makes the world feel more genuine, and at lvl 50, you won't be seeing bandits or marauders wearing Glass/Daedric respectively.

[@5nesta]

I wish this leveling system was explained better at the beginning of the game. I find this system interesting, I just thought the leveling system was a bit more traditional until it was too late. I didn't pay enough attention to character creation because I was too impatient and wanted to play the game without too much thought.

[@adud6764]

It is not explained better, because with the information given it is pretty obvious what you should do: want to play a melee character? Pick a weapon as a major skill. Want to play a mage? Pick destruction and other spell skills as major skills. Choose the attributes that go along with that. Doing it this way also ensures that magicka/fatigue are higher for mages/warriors, respectively. Works out fine. The problem is just, that this absolutely sucks and picking relevant skills for what you want to play makes your character worse. This was obviously never intended. For the same reason, doing "efficient leveling" was never intended either. They can't explain what they never intended. And this is caused by a combination of the terrible leveling system itself (binding level ups to integer skill values and much much more) and also how they handled the effects of the player level on the environment. Just terrible decisions all around.

[@alexcrowder1673]

its literally just backwards. it requires you to lie about which skills you plan to use if you dont want to overlevel....

[@eeveegaming4798]

I think i see why they simplified it in Skyrim, people complain about Skyrim being simplified and yes I’d perfer a system like oblivion’s but dang you have to plan it

[@Downer333]

Archer class 100% made up for it

[@JPatTheDirector]

The problem with the Skyrim system is that things like Blacksmithing and Enchanting are more or less useless unless you get them up to 40 or 50 first, even at the beginning of the game. In order to make them effective in gameplay, you would need to level your character several times so unless you are doing the "efficient" leveling method, you are stuck fighting level 7-10 beasts and npcs with insignificant combat skill ratings. It makes otherwise "minor" skills late game pursuits or it makes combat exponentially more difficult. At least in Oblivion, you can run around improving things like your Personality skills without worrying about encountering bears and minotaurs just because you have a nice smile.

[@badgasaurus4211]

@@JPatTheDirector Prefer new vegas to both. I know that is even simpler but it cuts the bullshit of needing to use crappy skills just to max level

[@domagojkersun9630]

@@JPatTheDirector Enchanting skill in Skyrim with mods or without mods is a must for every built. Simply it is a OP skill. Enachanting basicly kills every unique weapon or armor because you can do it better yourself.

[@TheScienceguy77]

@@JPatTheDirector "The problem with Skyrim is that the two most overpowered skills by far are useless in lower levels." This is absurdly wrong. Blacksmithing and enchanting are always useful and you can level up other skills in between you don't have to level to 40-50 immediately. Improving weapons and armor makes you really OP early in the game to the point where you're dealing massive damage while taking little to none. The three Enchanter perks that give 25% damage increases to frost/fire/shock enchantments are incredibly overpowered; especially the fire one you can get at lvl 30. The Fire Enchanter perk + any fire weapon makes clearing out draugr a breeze. Leveling smithing/enchanting is extremely easy too and no less tedious than leveling anything else. You'll also find plenty of potions to temporarily enhance your skill level far above its current level scattered around or for sale so you can easily make a weapon/armor flawless or put an OP enchantment on them without needing to be over 50.

[@hebruixe9125]

You know a game a designed badly when refusing to ever level up is the secret to supreme power. God I hate level scaling.

[@williamkirkland2222]

lvl scaling can work quite well, oblivion was a pathetic implementation.

[@sainsburyshopper]

@@williamkirkland2222 It works when you replace low level enemies with higher level enemies, eg, replacing a goblin with a minotaur or something. That way the difficulty goes up, but it's okay because you're fighting monsters that look and feel like they should be a challenge. When the same goblin you beat into a pulp at level 1 kicks your ass when you're level 50, it starts to feel like a cruel joke.

[@multidoor6928]

@@sainsburyshopper nah, that's still weird. Like in the beginning of the game you encounter only rats in dungeons, then it is only imps, and so on. Autoleveling should only improve bosses of dungeons and maybe 10% of generic enemies in it. With it also should be low and high level dungeons

[@MrChickennugget360]

personally i always prefer games that don't level to the character or only do so in minor ways. Morrwind for the win. Best way it to establish areas with progressively more dangerous enemies and start the character in an area that is relatively safe and have other areas that are also low level friendly. NPCs should warn the character that certain areas are dangerous. Roads and pathways should be safer than average allowing the character to Travers the countryside but going off the beaten path can lead to trouble- and going into dungeons or ruins can be down right suicidal for low level characters. Some leveling might be necessarily but there should be in game reasons for the sudden change in safety similar to how Oblivion did not have Oblivion gates all over the place until part way through the campaign.

[@olivernorth7418]

@Zed Love you know an adult is designed badly when his nostalgia clouds his judgement so much he can’t accept basic criticism of his childhood favourite

[@PrinceSheogorath]

For anyone wondering: in order to get a +5 in your attribute on level up you need to level up the corresponding skills at least 10 times. Say you want speed at +5 you need to level Athletics, Acrobatics, or Light Armor ten points in total, not all skills but a total of ten times. Example: 3 levels in light armor, 3 in Acrobatics, and 4 in athletics. That equals 10 total and now when you level up you get a +5 to speed. NOW VERY IMPORTANT! Level your MINOR skills ten times FIRST otherwise if you get the level up notification your bonus attribute is LOCKED! Say you have Light armor as a major skill, if you level up that major skill to the point you can increase in level you will only get +2 in speed. So level your minor skills first THEN your major to level up

[@CatchTheMarmosets]

Ty

[@pwnomega4562]

what if one of the corresponding skills is a major skill? should i still level that up 2-3 times to meet the criteria of 10 levels?

[@PrinceSheogorath]

@@pwnomega4562 make sure to level up your minor skills before the major skills. Once you reach the ability to level up any progress after that is null and void until you level up for that level

[@PrinceSheogorath]

@@pwnomega4562 long as you have a minor skill for the corresponding attribute you want leveled you should be fine, focus on the minor skill for say… archery, level that up 10 times THEN focus on focus on the major skill

[@gloweye]

I've always found some ranges... narrow. For example, Oblivion denizens: level 1-10: Stunted Scamps and Dremora Churl/Caitiff level 11-20: Variety! level 21+: All Xivilai, Dremora Valkynaz, and the occasional Storm Atronach/Spider Daedra. In a game where it's easy to get level 40, IMO the spread of level ranges bringing in new content should have been a bit wider.

[@NPC-hj4me]

Cranked up the difficulty pretty high on my first ever playthrough. Damn terrifying but I did ok.

[@evilsdemise1287]

I remember this was my most played game of that era in videogames. I never finished it because I ended up "breaking" the game, meaning that thru the combination of the custom spell creation system and gear enchantment system I was able to make my character undetectable by enemies unless I engaged them first and even then I was invisible while in combat so they couldn't attack me. That was with one gear set .Then I had another set that made it so if they hit me their attack would give me health and reflect all the damage to them instead so the more they hit me the more they healed me and the more they "killed" themselves with every hit. Then on top of that my attacks regenerated my magika stamina and health while siphoning the enemies magika stamina and health if I chose to attack, which I didn't need to do to win any fight. All this meant that I could skip all enemies and the ones I couldn't skip all I had to do was hit them once and just stand there while they killed themselves while attacking me. And this was with the difficulty slider maxed out. I just remember feeling like there was no point in going on playing the game since I could skip every enemy and if I did need to engage an enemy in order to further the story along I was invincible and pretty much playing in "god mode". I couldn't have been the only person who "broke" the game in this manner but I have never come across anyone who actually knows what I'm talking about. I actually regretted discovering how to do everything I described because it ruined the experience for me and it was all done through legitimate game mechanics, no modding or anything of the sort, I played it on X-Box. Best game ever up to that point though.

[@killsteele-5685]

I know exactly what you are talking about lol fun way to play when discovered by accident. Although I didn’t find out this trick til way late my first play through

[@MIKEDUDE197]

I found your channel through your first oblivion leveling video so this is a little blast from the past for me keep it up buddy

[@DVSPress]

Thanks!

[@benishmael9451]

Me too

[@renejuarez4166]

What’s this Mr. Stewart uploading a new oblivion video. 😱

[@SirClerihew]

It's so beautiful 😭

[@MasticinaAkicta]

I always countered, as in yes I choose a "prefered" type that was partly against the chosen play style. That way I slowed down leveling a lot and that was a lot easier to deal with long term. Sure at the top end getting from 19 to 20 gets a bit harder, definitely if "trade" is one of your big important points. Ahum. But... it works fine. And it stays fun as you do a lot more while leveling up to level 5. While if you go for the standard method you are level 10 before you know it. And that sucks. So yeah, I counter create a character. Not fully, with enough overlap that I will keep leveling up. But slower.

[@gdog8474]

Still one of the greatest games ever, although I rate Morrowind even higher. Morrowind changed what I thought a game could do. I must play Skyrim sometime soon.

[@amadeusdebussy6736]

I absolutely love Morrowind and Oblivion, just got around to playing Skyrim. Meh. It's pretty fun, but it's more Diablo than a true RPG. It's certainly quite dumbed down from the previous Elder Scrolls. I fear for TES6 if this is the trajectory.

[@Czah5]

I want to reinstall Oblivion, I can only imagine what goodies the Nexus has for it (last time I played they were still deving that expansive pirate mod).

[@constantin5509]

@@amadeusdebussy6736 Felt the same about skyrim. Played it once and never felt like playing it again. And yeah, if Fallout 4 and Fallout 76 are any indication, the next Elder Scrolls is gonna kill Bethesda definitively if they don't come up with something really good. Their best bet is to go back to the roots and implement some of the RPG elements from Daggerfall and Morrowind.

[@thebookwaswaybetter2827]

I keep hearing really positive things like this about Morrowind. I disliked Skyrim, but loved Oblivion and have just recently beat it again out of nostalgia lol might have to check out Morrowind if it's as good as people say it is.

[@Scotsmaninspain]

@@constantin5509 what are you talking about Skyrim is one of the best all time games...

[@OG_McLovin]

Jesus Christ. Yeah, I'm just gonna with the 'just make a character and go play the damn game' option. Fascinating video though, very well made and informative.

[@amadeusdebussy6736]

The leveling system is fine, it's the level scaling that makes it seem complicated or even broken. I would recommend getting a mod that addresses the level scaling and then you don't have to worry so much about min/max-ing.

[@hobbesgoblin2691]

It's weird for draining spells to have such a permanent affect on the player. Whoops looks like I have to leave all my hard earned armor in a oblivion realm because I got hit with a spell.

[@derrickbonsell]

@DEEJMASTER 333 Heck, I don't even need a mod that guarantees +5 for whatever you want. Just being sure I can get a +3 on the stats I want is more than fine with me.

[@p.jakub88]

Nice video! TES IV: Oblivion is a great game, but i never liked the fact, that monsters get harder to kill when you level up. Makes some "weak" types of enemies really annoying later in the game. I wonder, if there is a mod that fixes that mechanism?

[@Katie-hb8iq]

It was really dumb to basically force mostly optimal level-ups in this game to keep up with the difficulty curve. It made it so there was only 1 right way to play the game, and usually that meant suffering to optimize attributes since that process wasn't the natural way you wanted to actually play the game. I remember it all just felt like busy work, like I remember writing down skill levels so I could track how many points I would get as things leveled up because the game doesn't fucking you tell this information until it's too late. Turning down a difficulty slider is really not a good solution to solve this problem - the entire system is badly designed and the difficulty slider being necessary to get around it is a proof of how bad it is. I hope they never go back to something like this. Skyrim and the Fallouts are a lot more relaxing to play and you just do what you want to do in the game. There's nothing more immersion-breaking than constantly babysitting badly designed rpg mechanics - that shouldn't be the point of a game like this at all. I know mods fix this problem now, but I played ages ago, like on release. It's just so weird to have to actually rip out the leveling system for a game - never actually wanted that in any other game.

[@TheScienceguy77]

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't mind the tabletop-style game mechanics in theory, but they simply don't translate well into playing an action-adventure video game. Morrowind had a much better system, but it also had the dice-roll, hit-chance bullshit that was a holdover from Arena/Daggerfall. They rightfully did away with that while simultaneously crafting a leveling system in the same vein that has confounded virtually everyone to ever play Oblivion.

[@Jaden-Ring]

I like how oblivion is more in depth but playing your character ass backwards to be effective is flat out dumb. I'd like future tes games to adopt the best of both approaches.

[@joelhodoborgas]

Youre doing ot wrong then

[@Jaden-Ring]

@joelhodoborgas if effective leveling without adjusting difficulty is done through not using what is supposed to be your specialized skills in an rpg that's the game doing it wrong. I'm not an oblivion hater either I'm just stating facts.

[@Czah5]

Oblivion actually had one of my favorite leveling systems, atleast from an immersion standpoint. It could have definitely benefited from optimization.

[@MiaogisTeas]

How is it immersive to have to use math and a notebook in order to plan when your character can sleep, instead of sleeping when it's night or you need to recover? I think you need to consult a dictionary.

[@dangelini1137]

oblivion leveling system combined with the fact that monsters level with you forces you to train to level rather than just play and enjoy the game.

[@nicolasoliveira4903]

@@dangelini1137 A hint. This is not immersive. Immersive would be playing the way the game tells you to and getting more benefit without needing things outside the game.

[@CatchTheMarmosets]

For a efficient levelling warrior build pick these: Block Blunt Alchemy Restoration Merchantile Sneak Light Armor Now the skills you majorly wanna focus on can all level 5 times per level quite easily

[@CatchTheMarmosets]

And I use thief birthsign for the 10 luck, but that's up to you. Again most the major skills u aren't gonna use and are only there so u can gain ur minor skills much easier so u can get the +5, like you're never gonna use Alchemy for example, and light armor is there so u can get high speed

[@gamemaster2614]

2021 Nov 30 - A 5th option regarding the leveling system. To start, set a cap for yourself. Mine is currently level 7. Pick an overarching playstyle. Mage, Warrior, Rogue, or perhaps a unique playstyle. Craft your character to your choice except this --> use all the skills that do not fall under your choice as major skills. Efficiently level to your chosen level cap, taking heed to increase the attributes that promote your chosen style. Whatever level you choose to cap at will effect the world in many ways. As one example, anyone who isn't as privy to details such as the levels you find better alchemy equipment, may want to look into it if you want to be able to make top tier potions/poisons in your build. This avoids the possibility you may be outweighed by enemy growth, provided you don't advance much past level 25. Certain enemies only show up at certain levels. Variety is nice, yet is not needed. A similar style to this has been called Under Leveling in other circles. I'm choosing to call this style --> Efficient Capped Leveling.

[@b4byj3susm4n]

19:27 As the background gameplay actually shows, interacting with the bed in your cell when you “Go to Jail” after committing crime *does not* force you to sleep. What it instead does is indicate you accept your sentence rather than attempt to break out. Serving your sentence lowers several skills, 1 skill by 1 point for each day in jail up to 10 times. There is also a chance for serving jail time to increase either Security or Sneak skills instead.

[@Mmmm_tea]

how oblivion leveling works in 21 minutes ? I will do it in three words DO NOT SLEEP!

[@peddazz2365]

that is a really bad tip and is going to result in a sudden jump in enemy difficulty

[@taab84]

Then you cannot play the most interesting quests

[@stug3719]

@IV lol

[@alewis514]

@@taab84 the best compromise is to reach level 30 and then stop sleeping, as every reward in the game caps out at level 30 - but enemies continue to scale. I tend to play with a XP mod anyway (where you can directly set a level cap), but if you want to stick to the original system of leveling through skill use - you really shouldn't have any reason to level up past 30.

[@razalin]

I'm trying Oblivion again. It has been so long, I forgot how the levelling system works. Thanks for the reminder. It's coming back to me again. it's an interesting system for sure, but once you get your head around it, it's pretty decent. Cheers.

[@philquota7405]

Thank you! This is the one guide to efficient leveling that I understood! Also, I love Oblivion's leveling system. The only other leveling system I've seen is one where you need to walk in circles and hope for enemies to kill for XP.

[@DVSPress]

Thanks for watching!

[@philquota7405]

@@HallyVee Actually thanks for the bump. I forgot about this. I'm playing Oblivion...again. No money for new games atm

[@connormccarthy9909]

Really well made a video essay; my one bit of feedback is the bottom panel you have of a bunch of books or movies or something?? I kind of feel like I'm having a stroke as I'm watching a video in that s***'s just sitting at the bottom of the screen, lol 🤣

[@sapienscircus9404]

2:29 ya know, thanks for that. Great video.

[@Zarumee]

Bit of a random video, but very interesting! I never really understood how it worked a younger lad, but I understand it a bit more now that I'm older (the whole thing about using particular skills associated with a particular attribute). Never thought about the thing you mentioned regarding playing as mages and NOT choosing Altmer or Breton. One of the things that I realized playing Oblivion again, is just how much deeper it seems compared to Skyrim where they removed attributes entirely. That removes a tonne of interesting skills and potions, not to mention poisons you can use against specific enemies (Drain Intelligence or Willpower, for example). Great video! Thanks for explaining it so well.

[@badwolf3598]

Been very confused on all the stat stuff thank you for making this very clear and easy to understand!

[@Archontasil]

Hey! I was just watching funny oblivion videos and you uploaded this!!

[@RicoCilliers]

Let me guess: bacon's channel right?

[@Archontasil]

@@RicoCilliers correct

[@jacobfreeman5444]

This actually makes me want to play oblivion again. I didn't really understand leveling. I still could do stuff and was effective at what I did...but obviously not really grasping how leveling works made it a rather lack luster experience.

[@jaredunderwood978]

Good review. I'm just starting a new game, just want to play, but the balanced start and making sure how I'm going to play benefits me and have some control over helped me select my major skills and revised my knowledge what attributes I want to focus on as I casually play for fun now.

[@killsteele-5685]

Something no one has mentioned, when you go to jail and sleep your major skills go down and you can keep leveling up to make a super op character, chaos for the win. Best way to level by far.

[@boris2342]

Thank you ... need to try that

[@Cheezy_Bunz]

Can you go more in depth by what you mean and how to do this or share a link ?

[@killsteele-5685]

@@Cheezy_Bunz i dont have a link for it but its pretty simple. Lets say your blade skill is at 100 and you dont want to switch to blunt to keep leveling up, so you get a bounty in any of cities and you can choose to kill a few gaurds or steal items to get it, then turn yourself in to the gaurds and let them take you to jail, then you sleep in your bed and wait your time. Once youre done sleeping a few skills will go down in level, the higher the bounty youre in jail for means the longer you sleep you in jail. Ex: a bounty of 100 gold may only put you in jail for one game day where a bounty of 1000 or so will have you there for multiple days. And the longer you are in there for the more drastic the drop in the skills will be. I should also mention the skills it chooses are random i believe but i think its mostly major skills though. Its been a long time since i played the game and i found this trick out through playtime. But its an amazing trick when you hit level cap on your skills

[@Kenny-yu6gc]

@@Cheezy_Bunz there's also a kind of drug addiction status effect you can get from the shivering isles dlc that'll heavily lower all your skills so that you can continue leveling skills that you had maxed before the drug addiction. then once you felt like you leveled enough you can then cure the addiction putting your previously maxed skills over the 100 skill cap. in this video you can see David had skills well over the 100 skill cap. putting a endurance skill over its 100 skill cap will also continue to raise your hp

[@sensacionsombria5125]

holy shit this game is dumb as fuck

[@Czxvkq]

It's hard to give myself "permission" to lower the difficulty slider on most games. If normal difficulty means the character does 1x damage and enemies do 1x damage (as is the case in Oblivion) then I prefer to go for that on my first play through. It's a more satisfying experience to have that one-to-one balance. I'd prefer if the enemies in Oblivion didn't level up efficiently, then the player wouldn't need to either, and efficient levelling would be more of a "power user" approach rather than a necessity to survive.

[@DVSPress]

It's not a necessity

[@Czxvkq]

@@DVSPress it's either that or turning down the difficulty slider

[@DVSPress]

No, part of why I made this video. You don't have to have a character that's good at everything, even at very high levels. Certain gameplay styles are easier though - easier to be a tank than a kiting Archer for instance.

[@solidghost4525]

yo. I played this game for idk....probably hundreds of hours when it came out as a teenager. I had no idea about min maxing or anything i just played the game and I remember it being so dang hard at one point that I had to stop playing the game because even though i was a high lvl a simple beast in the woods would destroy me, all the 100 hits and fancy moves I learned over time didn't seem to help at all. I have nightmares to this day of that enemy health bar not moving at all no matter how much i hit it. I'm going to just play the game again but this time pay attention to my minor skills before resting. that doesn't seem to bad at all. worse case ill just drop the dif down. I don't even think i knew that was an option back then. I cant wait to drop into this game again after all these years. best memories of my childhood until I all of a sudden sucked at it so bad i had to give up.

[@DarNasty96]

This is why I hate but love being a min maxer...having to learn all the intricate systems in a game is very tedious but with that comes the knowledge and an understanding that makes me appreciate a game so much more

[@CaptainKronk]

Here is what I do. I pick my characters major skills off of what I don't want to use. The first level I want to wait until I have 10 points into endurance skill naturally so this doesn't count trained levels I pay for. After I level up I take a sreenshot of my minor skills so I know when to level up next

[@peddazz2365]

hey this is just like 12 years late lol

[@luckyhippy4898]

I just got the game lmao

[@ryansevernpiano]

Not really

[@marionanthony9924]

But, just in time...

[@HiltTilt]

It took 12 years to decipher

[@chaotickreg7024]

Actually it was 2 years early

[@HopeAngel777]

So my preferred race is dunmer, I prefer using spells, so basically mage class. I ran into a problem in the game that made me think I wasn't getting the most out of mage leveling by choosing the actual mage spells for my majors. I think this vid will help me go back and get the most out of my roleplay

[@MasterOFSuperFunny]

The video was great! It makes me so happy that you made an Oblivion video.

[@DVSPress]

Thanks! I have a few more planned, if I can actually find time to make them. Not sure if I'll do editing like this or just do it live like my usual vids.

[@theronware]

Thank you for this very informative video David. I've just discovered how fun it is to play without leveling up for once.

[@vovasyhin7219]

I prefer leveling luck every level so that you can max it out late game instead of increasing all 3 attributes to +5 with each level. Like most seasoned players you will want to max out your endurance stat first along with luck and one other stat depending on your weapon of choice!

[@jm6456]

If you are going for 100 in all stats, luck isn't worth much

[@CommanderZx2]

One of the biggest problems with the game is that if you aren't doing this specific min max levelling your character becomes weak garbage late in the game when wildlife is replaced with super powerful enemies like trolls every where. I've found the most effective way to play this game is to not level up at all, because then the enemies don't gain at all then, but you have still increased in prowess and more powerful weapons. i.e. finishing the game without levelling at all is far easier than playing through the game the way they intended.

[@DVSPress]

As I explain in the video, there are lots of things in the game that aren't accessible without sleeping, the dark brotherhood being one of them. You also can't finish the main story without surrendering a daedric artifact, and the lowest level quest for that is 10. The only way around that is to kill Umbra at level 1, something extremely difficult to do and something that a newbie would have no idea about. Same thing when it comes to triggering the DB.

[@thefreshestslice4105]

@@DVSPress The lowest level Daedric Quest is 2. Sheogorath's and Azura's. Sheogorath's in particular requires no combat at all. Just a potion of invisibility and being good at the lock picking mechanic.

[@elderscrollsswimmer4833]

@@thefreshestslice4105 Invisibility potion? How about chameleon clothing?

[@thefreshestslice4105]

@@elderscrollsswimmer4833 If you can find that at level 2, have at it.

[@andrewcox9204]

i appreciate this, i leveled up to 20 or more, and only had a little over 100 magica because, i didn't know what i was doing, and i didn't know how to fix it because i'm clueless on the leveling, the game is great, the guilds take time to complete and i preferred them to skyrim's as besides time they also felt deeper having rules and intricacies that made them fascinating, so i wanted to be good at the game rather than enchanting gear to slightly fix what i did

[@pretty_fly_for_a_jeskai]

Helpful video. Going to play Oblivion extensively for the first time. Honestly I'll probably focus more on just playing the game rather than metagaming my spread for efficiency, but its probably worth the time to carry a shield and raise endurance skills passively in between each level up so I'm not horribly squishy by level 25 and forced to lower the difficulty so much that my damage becomes so high the game isnt very rewarding any more.

[@oyasumigabriel]

after 11 months, please explain me how to have fun with this level system

[@davisharper6704]

In terms of balanced character creation, one combination I found to be really balanced overall is an Imperial thief. Imperials start with low agility but have average leveled strength, endurance, and intelligence, as well as a boost to personality.

[@torinjones3221]

If only I had this 11 years ago

[@Bassywassy20]

Bethesda sometimes makes choices that makes anyone confused. Why would they ever pick a levelling system like this? Its so random. Pick 10 skills that will level you? Other skills won't? Yet if you want to maximize a character you're still stuck to those skills you didn't pick (many skills being useful to any type of character)? Levelling them with the awesome strategy of putting something heavy on your keyboard to make your character move or cast so you can walk away for an hour until your character has levelled another 25 points in that skill? What the hell is the point of that lol? And then the fact that if you want to aim for the proper skills to level you'll have to keep track of what points your character gained as you were following the story. Kind of takes away the casual fun of just focussing on the story. I'm actually playing Fallout 3 again for the zillionth time running into problems that prove a lack of intelligent design similar to what's encountered in Oblivion.

[@georgebarrett2132]

Fascinating.. had no idea of the detail depth in some of these.. Thanks for the lowdown David

[@vincentm.7462]

I try and get a +5 per attribute per level by focusing on minor skills

[@killsteele-5685]

Don’t worry too much about it, if you go to jail and sleep your major skills will go down and you can keep leveling up past what would be “max”

[@AndresChulo]

@@killsteele-5685 what? Ive been playing since the 360 and never thou of this, i used to not see videos or tutorials and enjoy, but i got the series s only for oblivon n Skyrim , was lf tips and saw this comment and whaaaaaat xD

[@exantiuse497]

@Killsteele - This is not a good idea. Enemy scaling isn't concerned with your character's attributes, only its level. If you use exploits to reach level 60 to reach maximum attributes, instead of maxing out at level 30, enemies are literally twice as strong while your character's power is the same. The point of efficient leveling is to have the highest possible attributes at the lowest possible level. In fact reaching a level where have maxed out your primary stats (endurance, speed and strength for warriors; endurance, willpower and intelligence for mage; endurance, speed and agility for thief/archer), which is around level 15 when efficiently leveling, and then stopping there means your character is and remains stronger than if you continue leveling up until all your stats are maxed, since you don't really get much stronger after that but enemies do

[@presleybaldwin3756]

AWESOME, thank you for making another great video. Man, Oblivion is an amazing Game. Just wondering if you would ever do a playthrough for us to watch? Or make videos on what you would have done differently in the story?

[@vitustrinity8879]

My ideas for what to do with this game are coming together now with all of this info from you and others. I also learned how to make use of how the leveling worked by keeping the stuff I truly want to use as a major skill (Illusion and Alteration are usually in the major skills) and then make my character have some pretty good spells to keep me from getting caught while I shoot enemies from afar. The tips you gave will inspire more ways to play it, but one thing about Bethesda is that you can always make a broken character if you play it enough.

[@jimmylee6547]

I wholeheartedly believe that this is the most unnecessary video on KZbin, and I love it.

[@DVSPress]

It will be my most viewed video of 2019.

[@jimmylee6547]

@@DVSPress I'll pray to your God of choice for that to happen - meanwhile, I subscribed to you, I enjoy your sporadic content. And your beard.

[@DVSPress]

Thanks

[@jimmylee6547]

I started playing Oblivion because of you...God dammit - I couldn't resist after this - @@DVSPress

[@phantasticphantom9457]

I have just finished installing it on a laptop :) Great game, so many hours...

[@themobseat]

Well thought out and clear video! Thanks for the info 👍

[@SteveJames-nn9hp]

This is the first guide that really helpes

[@mikeholmes1313]

This is the best explanation of the leveling system that I have come across. The leveling system in Oblivion is so much more immersive than Skyrim, and makes this game more interesting. Great video. Just started a new play thru in Oblivion yesterday and this video has explained so much. I feel so dumb that I missed all of this in my first play thru years ago, but makes the game play and RP experience so great, and way better than Skyrim. The other part I like here, is that you can cast spells in Oblivion while also armed with a weapon which was lost in Skyrim. Id trade the ability to shout with being able to cast a spell while armed and holding a shield any day.

[@Sleepy_Haley]

Man I'll be honest I came here just to find out how to level up and I'm now staying to watch the whole thing because my interest is now peaked

[@njdss4]

I remember having a notepad with a big spreadsheet written down to track my skill ups so I could level efficiently. Id be mad if I gained a skill up in something I didnt want because it would screw up my attribute bonus at level up. I dont think thats good design, tbh. Dynamic leveling punished people for not min/maxing, and most people dont enjoy having to do that.

[@juzzy753]

njdss4 I kind of wanna do this but wanna keep my patience playing so I have fun as well ha ha

[@thefuzz457]

You can complete some quests that require sleep without leveling up. You just have to cancel sleeping right after pushing the sleep button, but it could take a few tries. It worked for me on the Anvil recommendation quest.

[@sylvana393]

When I first played the game. I maxed most of my skills to 100 by level 3. I speed leveled to level 20 and got slapped around pretty good. Starting over with this system.

[@exantiuse497]

I did the exact same thing, I think I literally stayed at level 1 since I didn't know you needed to sleep to get levels and there's no real need to sleep. When I realised you needed to sleep to level up I instantly leveled up more than 10 times, and the next common goblin I encountered kicked my ass. I was pissed, leveling up made me so much weaker lol

[@tyrander1652]

Luck does not raise all of your skills, only some of them (not the ones like acrobatics or athletics that you could super charge with it) , and not enough to make a practical difference. The exception to its practical worthlessness is for betting in the arena, because it also raises the skills of the fighter you bet on giving him/her and edge.

[@exantiuse497]

I agree that luck is largely worthless in Oblivion. It is a remnant from Morrowind, where it was important because most things from attacking to making potions were affected by RNG and luck increased the chance of success for those things. They kept the attribute going into Oblivion but didn't give it any real purpose, and due to changes to the leveling system (lower max level and enemy scaling discouraging too much leveling) you couldn't max luck out anyways

[@Jotto999]

What I do is just make all my majors either 1) combat-related skills, or 2) skills I don't plan to ever use. E.g. I want mobs to get stronger as my Destruction and Restoration go up. I don't want powerful NPCs to start pummeling me just because I did a bunch of alchemy and alteration!

[@isgrayfoxdead]

I’m bout to finish the game and I’m still at level 1 😂😭🤦🏻‍♂️

[@wisdomchild1303]

Lol

[@PopeDuwang]

What I wish for Elder Scrolls Leveling: I wish Skills in Elder Scrolls worked similarly to that of OG RuneScape. Where you have many types of skills but they are all not tied to just how Combat Ready you are. Just because you Max out Pickpocketing/Locksmith, Armorer/Smithing, and Alchemy doesn’t mean the bare minimum enemy should be Minotaurs, Liches and Skeleton Heroes. There should be a Combat Level tied specifically to your Combat Related Skills and that reflects how ready you are for the next tier of enemies. That way you aren’t overwhelmed when you’ve barely lifted a weapon or have paper thin armor.

[@jekw23]

Stopped playing when I was wandering through a random field and encountered a goblin in top tier armour. Spent ten minutes smacking him to no avail. That was my hint that I’d levelled up inefficiently and the game had overtaken me. I’d probably invested all my time in mercantile (I don’t think Oblivion even had that skill) or something that would not help me battle low tier enemies in god tier armour.

[@Phantom12000]

May the nine bless your soul for this awesome teaching thank you

[@stonwall9065]

Returning to Oblivion as an adult. Blind play through first, then I’ll use the Balanced Creation method with minimal micromanaging.

[@DJNightchild]

Pro-tip: To stay at level 1, choose 7 skills you WON'T be using. That way, sleeping is still an option. EDIT: You also might want to consider the "Mage" birthsign as an option, when you play as an Orc/Redguard/Nord mage. That +50 Magicka can be quite the dealbreaker in early game when casting your spells.

[@sensacionsombria5125]

I don't get it. Why choosing 7 skills you won't use? So if i want to be a mage should I choose 7 thief skills? And still play like a mage? This game is dumb af

[@DJNightchild]

@@sensacionsombria5125 this has to do with how leveling. This way you won't level (nor do your enemies), but you do strengthen the skills you want to use. The leveling system of Oblivion is completely broken. Another pro tip. Leveling up to Lv. 2 might be desirable as this unlocks many quests, while do monsters are still easy to beat.

[@humospitz9829]

instead of never leveling up or modding youre game you can use console commands to make sure the 3 stats you choose when you level up gets 5 points by adding whatever is left over from how much points the game gives you

[@kev7361]

don't see why people are saying skyrim is worse than oblivion or morrowind, i find it quite idiotic, i mean yeah Morrowind and oblivion have certain things skyrim doesn't, but I feel like if TES6 had like Skyrims Mechanics,Graphics,Animations etc, And if it had Morrowind and Oblivions armours,weapons,soundtracks,and features and spells,maybe even oblivion's UI and similiar storylines, it would be the Ultimate game that would produce millions, that's my vision for TES6 lol. Edit: I do wanna say that I do honestly believe Oblivion is the better game, But that's just my taste.

[@PowerfulRift]

Good video thank you David

[@chrismiller3548]

Because of the leveling system I always stop at level 20 along with efficiently leveling so that I can grab the most powerful sigil stones and do every quest without the enemies becoming too op

[@WaifuDiver]

Okay so I think really the most important thing here is skills that you use most often you want to be minor skills not major skills so that you increase your bonus attribute gains at level up.

[@magnetsphere2872]

i spent more time than i would like to admit hovering around looking for the little "x" to remove the bottom stuff

[@DVSPress]

Can't block my ads!

[@franciscoprazzio225prazzio]

I just started playing oblivion again after more than 3 years, I am level 6 now at what point will i get higher level enemies i still get the same enemies i had at level 1 will that change when i am level 17, and level 22.

[@S0n0fG0D]

You know a game isn't designed the best when I gotta use advanced math just to level up. Can someone explain this to me like im a baby? Im confused.

[@X28X282X]

It's not that hard dude lol, i never got why these people keep mentioning it. Just lower the default difficulty by a bit if you can't handle it and just enjoy the game as it is.

[@ghostgate82]

This is why scaling is cancer in RPGs. Fromsoft has perfected leveling in that regard.

[@alexcardenas6279]

Starting oblivion over again😭

[@RealCasperMan]

After a few plays never paying much attention to efficiency about 15 years ago, I booted up a new character again this past year and abided by the 5-5-5 system. Worked great. Stuck around and worked from the single chest in Weynon Priory until 4/7 of my attributes were maxed, the last 2 were 90+, with not much attention payed to luck. Started questing and all attributes were maxed by level 28, with the exception to luck at around 60+. I'm now running standard with all attributes buffed by equipment 105+ (STR 130+, WILL 130+, END 130+, etc) - which works great for the redmage build I had always wanted to build. Lots of perry but still all of the destruction, conjuration, and illusion I could have wanted without making the game a total cakewalk. Took a while and a bunch of grinding (running around the woods or beaches naked with a rusty dagger, or finding a nice spot to spam skeletons or candlelight, there's a nice rat pit at the bottom of a fort on the road to Chorral where you can blast through Heavy and light armor as well as armorer with enough hammers, just little grinds like that every level - there's a free app you can download to track all your skill ups) but now I just get to really enjoy the game and story at an above average difficulty. I still drop it to zero to keep certain NPC's alive once in a while, that's always fun. Dark Elf (personal preference) Warrior sign (to get STR and END early on) Athletics Blade Block Destruction Conjuration Illusion Sneak Great build 👍

[@joelhodoborgas]

I love the leveling system, RPG is so lost in people, i really appreciate oblivion

[@walterb920]

To stay level 1 and be able to sleep just make skills you are never going to use your major skills

[@rob1700]

I'm going back to oblivion to play again. Before I picked a class then got fed up when it got real hard. Any chance of getting that balanced build video? Thanks!

[@DVSPress]

Yeah I can do one this weekend

[@rob1700]

Awesome thanks 👍

[@skipskip342]

The goddamn friendly NPCs die in one hit when you're high LVL

[@dmas7749]

0:50 having to adjust the difficulty slider is not a good excuse...i'd rather just have the game provide me a balanced and enjoyable experience from start to end rather than fiddle with something that ultimately does not change the game in any meaningful way beyond the time i spend with it. i always ignore the difficulty slider because difficulty in elder scrols is designed in the worst possible way. anyway here's my objectively better rewrite to the levelling system, i'm not talking about scaling. 1. your health goes up by 5 each level, similar to the fallout games. Endurance still affects health, but is no longer nagging you to get +5 in it each level or lose permanent HP. some people like this even though it just wastes time and energy. 2. if you do not pick an attribute for that level, the number of skill ups for that attribute carry over. this means that if you're levelling Speed and Endurance and accidentally raise Security because you don't have open scrolls you could focus on getting 9 points for the next level instead of having to start over 3. this is optional, but i would have minor skills contribute to levelling, not just major skills.

[@dizocilpine]

blade becomes useless at the high levels unless you want 3 min fights with random creatures

[@canislupus4995]

Fantastic guide, thank you!

[@vovasyhin7219]

I disagree with stat boosting birthsigns as in late game they will become completely meaningless and redundant especially if you have been leveling with +5 Attributes on leveling, Atronach is by far the most OP birthsign especially for fighter builds, 50% of the time you completely nullify any damaging spell cast on you you can later make this 100% making you immune to magic damage! Otherwise get ether the Mage or Apprentice if you are a Breton, dont take it if you are a High Elf! because125% magic damage weakness is nothing to scoff at! All other Birthsigns are completely worthless as you can find stone powers and magic spell that completely surpass them!

[@noodle6377]

*looks up how to level up in oblivion* *guide: play the game*

[@CziffraTheThird]

When you said near the end regarding not sleeping....does this also include and pertain to waiting?

[@Koalavater]

Waiting is fine. Sleeping in a bed/bed roll is the only way to actually level up.

[@aaltair97]

I'm just seeing this video as my character is level 9. Is 9 early enough to start efficient levelling, or will I still get out leveled later in the game?

[@thehappiestyokai5031]

In one night I understood how oblivion leveling system work. I did spawn a skeleton in arena training room, and I discovered that if you punch your pet, he will atack you, and you will earn skill points so......I spend all of my magika in conjury, and after this, I sleep and recovery all energy. In one fucking hour, I managed to go up from level 4 to 14. This level system is ridiculous, after this, nothing has happened, because the enemies hit me and I die same as level 1 LOL ( Sorry for my bad english guys )

[@venias5044]

Nice book david

[@leonidhirniak2737]

I do highly appreciate ur educational vids! ty a lot!