Dawn of War 3 Review and Beta Impressions - Warhammer 40k Multiplayer Gameplay

[@milkandcookiesTW]

I will not be purchasing Dawn of War 3 until I feel as though the amount of content on offer is worth a full price game. I think the small map pool, only one multiplayer game mode, and only 3 starting factions is not worth 60 dollars unless the campaign is AMAZING. I havent played campaign, so I have no idea how that will play out. If Relic continues supporting the game with free maps and free game modes soon after launch (I think they've said thats the plan) then I think the game will be more attractive. I think a Victory point game mode would be more fun and have less pacing issues than Power Core. I think this game can succeed as a pure RTS even if it disappoints some traditional DoW fans. I certainly feel for and understand people's frustrations with the changes that have been made, and the art style and animations in particular. But I do think DoW3 has plenty of redeeming qualities, and for me, it is not the doom and terrible end of the series that some people have been saying it is.

[@ares106]

milkandcookiesTW this is kind of like the End Times for 40k in viodegame form. The creators decide they are bored with their creation and try to do something completely different, instead of starting a whole new series.

[@indypride50]

From what I understand, it's essentially a different, and significantly smaller team. Most of the people who worked on Dow 1 and/or Dow 2 no longer work on the series

[@MultiClicks]

I think you forgot about doctrines in DOW 3 that mix up units thus leading to different army compositions.

[@FLAMINGFOXFILMZ]

milkandcookiesTW Has the army painter remained in DoW 3?

[@christiaannienkemper2419]

YES

[@DaThingOnTheDoorstep]

I doubt I'll ever buy Dawn of War 3, which saddens me because the first one got me into 40k proper and I still play it with Ultimate Apocalypse. I just can't get over the the look of DoW 3, even the animations are exaggerated to a cartoonish degree. I also despise mobas, so selling it as a moba RTS is not at all appealing. Then of course there is the lack of the more interesting factions: no Chaos, Necrons, or Sisters. What a shame.

[@akq242]

DaThingOnTheDoorstep you also play apocalypse? damn,the orcs and necrons are OP as hell

[@ScurvyMcGruff]

It's a goddamn shame. There is no excuse for excluding chaos. Although I wouldn't like to see them "cartoonified".

[@teroslarone1171]

DaThingOnTheDoorstep DoW 2 didn't have chaos in the base game but at least we had our nids back then

[@eirikmarthinsen3850]

Dante: Gabriel, what happened to the blood ravens? Gabriel: They're all dead after the last two engagements. Dante: Dead? All one thousand astartes dead in two engagements? What happened?" Gabriel: Well we tried to take an eldar base, and that other time we tried to take an ork base" Dante: "And lost your entire chapter? Why did you not retreat to a more advantageous position as the codex astartes advise?" Gabriel: What is "retreat?"

[@chungusbooper]

The art direction looks a bit too garish for 40k. The MOBA mechanics, I guess I could take or leave. It does make sense with unique and powerful units that can take on whole armies by themselves. Speaking of bloodthirsty champions, though, where's Chaos? You can't just leave out Chaos.

[@NyangisKhan]

Chaos? you mean the pre order DLC!?

[@chungusbooper]

Are you serious?

[@chungusbooper]

Those exist.

[@chungusbooper]

Yep. Ranger Mode was pre-order DLC for Metro: Last Light (it was free in the first game). And speaking of scummy, let's not forget EA holding back a Prothean as DLC for Mass Effect 3.

[@Legiro]

EA started 1day DLC before Mass Effect 3. It always surprises me how long they do certain things before people start noticing on large scale. First time was actually Dragon Age 2, with Sebastian being announced well before the game release and being 1st day DLC (obviously not free). While his role in the game wasn't as important lore-wise as Prothean's in the ME universe, he did have meaningfull unique story interaction at a major plot poin in third (out of three) episode of the game. It was also among the first examples of this practice in the industry in a major title too. Hell, I feel old now for remembering all this.

[@knell18897]

I still can't get over the fact that Space Marine are light infantry

[@lazerrhino]

knell18897 They have always been light infantry in every dawn of war game

[@liamcarter4818]

yaeh they have always been lol

[@pronumeral1446]

They're "normal" armour type. As opposed to Terminators and Vehicles which are "heavy" armour type. But they do have a lot more HP per squad member than Orks or Eldar.

[@Snarfindorf]

They aren't light infantry in DoW 2, nor are they in the first game. They're classed as infantry, and in DoW 2 at least they're extremely tough

[@lazerrhino]

Snarfindorf Most units are in dawn of war 2. The reason people hated it was because it wasn't Warhammer with massive armies. Just a couple of squads brawling it out. Just cause they are classed as "light infantry" doesn't make them weaker it's just a name change.

[@SebHaarfagre]

Dude your reviews are so freaking good. Thanks. Also, I think they went for a target group that are players that don't really ever look at reviews.. or players that play games for their competitiveness exclusively (which I personally will never see the attraction for, but I can understand that some do). Finally, this game has apparently so many similar "problems" to games that ruined franchises for me that I won't be getting it. Namely a few: The Command & Conquer series, Starcraft, Warcraft, Settlers. To name some. Oh and I don't think the cartoon choice is _really_ based on visibility (if really so, sounds like they hired budget artists, seriously), but rather a younger target group - and they don't want to piss off older gamers more than they already have so they used that as an excuse. (Seriously, there are shitload of good artists out there, it's a really, really bad arguement. To me, it is obvious they want to attract cartoon moba players and other ppl, you just don't go shitting on dark grim for no reason, I don't buy the "visibility" arguement for one second, that's just lack of caring to put in the effort - and this is the third edit now just to emphasise that, I work myself up about it just thinking about it, to me it sounds like they're straight up lying, wtf)

[@Kalevala101]

I want to like this game, i really do. Everytime I look at gameplay, I'm filled with so much anger. The game might be a good RTS, but it is NOT a good warhammer 40k game in terms of staying to the IP. Terminators can't jump or flip. Marines arn't light infantry. Soldiers dont just sit there and shoot each other like robots...

[@SebHaarfagre]

I was waiting for the Dreadnoughts to bring out a surfboard and do a "surf the wave" special attack or something.

[@swordchronicle]

The standard space marine has Always been light infantry (normal armor)

[@sechs6]

The Wraithknight has the "Surf the wave special attack" :( when it jumps you can see it surfing..

[@SebHaarfagre]

Lol oh no xD

[@millerzajdel3860]

Do you play warhammer 40k? Gaberial Angelos is a cybernetic monster as far as I am concerned not a termie. Also termies can jump (abbadon is a beast in the books). Marines are basic infantry as fuck, 10 man squad of marines that die to flashlights is common. And why take cover when your armor is better than the cover? I would rather stand still and shoot to have a more accurate shot, which if you played tabletop you would know most marines take armor saves instead of cover saves.

[@GrimmyBearrawr]

Indy one thing I was also wondering about is how did you feel about the Escalation phases as a catch up mechanic?

[@adamant6166]

An Astartes Las Canon has 6 shots until it has to be reloaded (source: Deathwatch Pen&Paper Core Rulebook) and this is without the large back power pack (which increases the amount of shot 10-fold). The TTop mechnics are over simplified, to be balanced and fit into a turn based strategy game. Space Marines for example are considerably weaker in the TTop than in the Pen&Paper Systems or written fiction. There is actually an amazing amount of knowledge buried in the W40k Pen & Paper Systems, shining more light unto this grim dark universe and make it more fleshed out. Just wanted to add this tidbit of information...

[@ROIBR]

what do you think abou a conquest mode, where you have go hold Flags like in Battlefield? Wouldnt that be cool? 3 vs 3 or even 5 against 5 or whatever?

[@Bubba_Dub]

The game trailer was completely misleading. It showed a dark and shitty world... like an amplified version of DoW 2.... but then we got sponge bob graphics with the game-play footage. Very disappointing... Also, the new cover system is shit when compared to Dow 2.

[@TheSupremeSkill]

Having played much RTS, but not any Dawn of War title, this looks much better game than the earlier ones. I'm definetly going to try the open beta.

[@Ratt611]

Only 3 factions? Are they planning to add more?

[@pedrobastos8132]

DoW 1 was waaaaay less dark and gritty than DoW 2. I think that the 40k universe is totally able to support those big, flashy fights, c'mon, please, there are Space Paladins shooting Space Orcs with huge, over the top weapons and/or riding those ridiculously enormous vehicles. On the other hand, the bubble cover and the continuous fire lascannons made me cringe a bit. The gameplay remembers me a lot of DoW 1, with those big, huge numbers on screen, and the controls look more responsive and precise. It definitely looks more fun than DoW 2 IMO, but the lack of game modes is really bad. I think people are definitely overhating this game, especially considering that's not even out yet...

[@FrontlinerDelta]

On a positive note, whatever that banshee elite was, I really like it's super fast melee movements and dashes.

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Jain Zarr, Phoenix Lord of the Howling Banshee Aspect Warriors. She's awesome! A lot of fun to use for sure

[@nalrashido]

milkandcookiesTW she's immensely badass in the fluff and meh on the tabletop as of 7th edition. Jain Zarr in Nightbringer was a god damn badass. She slaughtered an entire warband, made Night Lord's feel fear, beat some to death with her bare hands and effortlessly gimped their leader. It took a bundle of grenades, a power plant explosion AND a Dreadnaught to bring her down by way of trickery rather than direct assault.

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Thats in the novel "Nightbringer"? About the Ultramarines and C'tan?

[@nalrashido]

milkandcookiesTW Shit my bad I meant Void Stalker by Aaron Dembski Bowden.

[@davidhansen5574]

they have alienated me so hard.. it hurts bad.. but im not going to buy or support this game

[@SebHaarfagre]

same

[@AngryCheezburger303]

For who were they making the game then? Because it sure doesn't seem to be the audience that kept these guys afloat for the past years. Sucks to be a long time fan and see a beloved franchise turned into something so different

[@animewarrior3]

I don't get the model/color design was a bad idea. I prefer it like this, honestly eldar and space Marines ARE flashy their armor is made that way for a reason, for eldar because they gotta look good, space Marines, because they want to intimidate. so making the colors pop is good imo

[@dane7584]

Thanks for the review it's better covered than most full release reviews from let's call them professional reviewers. Considering all of the changes I can safely say "I'm out" which is really disappointing because I really like 40k and loved the DoW series.

[@liamcullen3035]

I like that you have a steam friend named Admiral Thrawn :P Thankyou for the informative and objective review!

[@ildlyn8966]

meh i would rather play DoW 1 honestly

[@wallhackergotdammit]

DoW 1 with DoW 2 graphics and cover system.

[@ildlyn8966]

there is cover in DoW 1 though. those explosion holes, and negative cover in water.

[@pkor6860]

Dow 2 cover system was buggy as hell i dont miss it!

[@albertoencinar95]

David Dearlove that game was THE GAME 10 years playing it and i don't stop and with mods its even better

[@lasvista2tech]

who else wants DOW1 REMASTER ? also DOW2 never happened ...

[@StoneTitan]

What is the ost like? is it a new opst or using music form past dow games?

[@nathanhostetler6950]

I'm OK with the visual style. I have always preferred the comic-book style of early 40k editions anyway, with NMM marines in bright, garish colors. It's the way it all started, after all. The thing I'm concerned about is gameplay. I don't like the artificial pacing of the power generator game type. I really hope they introduce a straight-up annihilation game mode quickly.

[@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump]

A fantastic video. One of the most professional reviews I've seen, though at this point that's the norm for your channel. I'm a lot more negative on the game, but your opinions were well stated, and your personal biases cleared up. Beautiful work.

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Thank you for the kind words, glad you enjoyed the video even if you wont enjoy the game :)

[@SebHaarfagre]

Much shorter and better way of putting it than I did, I agree, I couldn't help myself working up a fit over the direction DoW took, though :p Is this part of growing up, watching all your favourite games turn into something you cringe at?

[@Thumbdumpandthebumpchump]

No. Or, yes. Kind of. I personally think there's no excuse for DoW3. I feel like Arch nailed it best. They're trying to be Starcraft, but Warhammer.

[@SebHaarfagre]

Yeah lol ^^ It seems very much to me they're trying to be all these different things but aren't really any of them. And yeah the growing up part was half truth half joke, some legacies continues to be ok, with ups and downs and of course. And new ones are made..

[@AEspiral]

There is no excuse for dow2 that fucking useless piece of shit that you all shits say to love but don't play.

[@TomorrowWeLive]

I'm willing to give it a chance.

[@zmoney925]

Your points about how much professional gamer can/ do make in regards of how successful Moba's are in pointless and is out of place. It does nothing really to improve the overall quality of the game and does not show how it is a good thing for DW: 3. If anything, it dragged out the game for longer then necessary. Different game genres, different play and thought processes. Hero skills shot and abilities are not new to the game. What changes they made to certain units makes zero sense, your example of the lascannon units is a solid point. Another would be why Tac Marines cannot shot while moving or have grenades until you unlock the perk by leveling up heros for use in the Battle Doctrine. I played in the closed beta and all matches went down like this. 1.) Turtles until you have a decent size are. 2.) Poke the enemy force. 3.) Wait until you can call in your Nuker elite. 4.) Push lane. 5.) Win. That was it and the fights are fun and out the carnage was good to see. The aftermath the fight staying on the field of battle to good to look at and learn from. But like you said, the round took too long to finish up sometimes. Victory point/ control mode would make the game more aggressive and more engaging in army aspect and rewards if you come out on top of a fight. Also, it would make use of certain unit combos better. But all around, you nailed the what the closed beta was. Divisive how I would say the multiplayer experience would be for me. If the multiplayer aspect of the games does not get fleshed out with more modes and make it more playable over time and the campaign is decent but not great, I can see this being the final nail in what was the 40K universe.

[@goransekulic3671]

Oi, how's the AI? I doubt that the modding will be in for release and the rumours about the campaign are not...encouraging, so this is the absolute most vital point for me. If you had to compare the AI, to what would you compare it to? Also, is it fun to play vs the AI(I know that some more competitive players won't understand this)?

[@milkandcookiesTW]

The beta didnt have access to games vs. AI, nor did it have the campaign. So I'm not sure how well the AI plays except in the 1 or 2 games that someone dropped out. I've heard the AI can play very well on higher difficulties especially though, from people who had more drops than me during the beta

[@SonOfTheWolfKing]

I feel as though the idea with the simplified and more cartoonish visuals and flashy popping abilities is one to identify them on a hectic battlefield as well as attract new players. It is one of the many reasons why WoW was, and continues to be, so popular. It seems less...serious (for lack of a better term.) Indypride I have always been a fan of your channel and your reviews and your even handed take on all of the reviews you have. I cannot wait to hear what you have to say about TWW2, but I digress. The direction Relic seems to have taken is a more mainstream and popularized one, which from a business standpoint makes alot of sense. They may be banking on a new group of gamers eager to dive into the 40k universe after their AMAZING Hype Train trailer, as well as the core of the fanbase whom are willing to put up with some misrepresentations of the universe. This is the Worm on the Hook that is the hobby for many people hopefully and I look forward to soon after realease (finances willing.) Starcraft is a very popular and successful RTS with a dedicated company behind it, so if Relic is intending to emulate anything why not something as good as that? Now with all that being said I do like the popping and glow of some of the effects and appearances but you can do that and still manage a gritty grimdark setting and "tabletop." Space Marines have some very bright colors and eldar especially pop depending on the craftworld. Orks as long as it looks slapped together and a bit ramshackle should be fine. my main complaint is actually with the warzones and their lack of complex setting and design even off in unreachable or cordoned off zones. I feel like CA has captured the setting of the landscapes wonderfully and hopefully Relic takes a hint and emulates that as well. Sorry for the Wall of Text and thank you if you made it this far.

[@gondor532]

"We will make cartoonish units to make everything more visible" -> create flashy, colorful fireworks instead of bullets, parkour space marines and dancing buildings .

[@thebakerzdozen]

Completely agree with the comments on Power armour animations and the games visual design. A new generation of war hammer games indeed

[@ROIBR]

thnx 4 the cool vids first! could you make oin depth vids abou the different units? at least the Elites and show their strength and weaknesses, aswell as customization options if there are any? would be sweet thnx m8

[@Wildboy789789]

the art style can easily be fixed with the army painter... the biggest gripe against total war warhammer was that it only started with 6 races, I am not spending 60$ on a dawn of war with 3 races and no chaos freeLC, I cant do it, and trust me I want to play badly

[@pedrokantor1834]

My thoughts on DoW 3: Dawn of War 3 has been in my sights since it's initial announcement trailer. However, over the course of gameplay trailers, and other such things, I have grown to dislike what Relic has made DoW 3 into. For me, the mistakes of Relic were in this specific order (in terms of which I dislike most): Visuals, cover system, lore, game mode(s), no retreat button, and overall ability for the design team to listen to the wants of the fans, instead of a small test group. Now, before I am replied to by anyone about the design portion, I do know how much work it'd be to change the game up. However, Relic should've and could've listened to the fans of the old games, and brought back what they liked most. In my opinion, Relic lost a good many sales the moment they explained their choices about the things stated above. As Indy said in this video, in such a universe as 40k, there are EXTREME fans that will critique anything you get wrong with the lore. And by no means am I one to go all-out, as with my thoughts on Space Hulk: Deathwing, where I thought sprinting terminators and falling terminators is better for gameplay. In comparison, FLIPPING terminators and rapid-firing Lascannons is a BIG no-no. In terms of visuals, I'd say the game could be far better, and the Relic team should've looked more closely upon DoW 1 & 2 for inspiration on the universe's look, that of which being grim-dark, instead of the popping colors in this game. Another issue that people often overlook in their reviews (and I thank Indy for going over) is the no retreat button. In Warhammer 40k lore, Adeptus Astartes are limited by the Codex Astartes to a maximum of 1000(?) astartes per chapter. Of course, the Space Wolves/Black Templars threw that idea to the wind, but others do follow that. In the case of other chapters, you don't want all of your astartes to die in an already losing battle. It's not uncommon for astartes to pull back if they are losing as bad as they would be without retreat as an option. As said above, that is simply a lore issue, as well. My verdict: Visuals - 5/10 (they could've looked back, yet they failed to do so) Gameplay - 6/10 (the races have a nice rock, paper, and scissors type gameplay, which is usual, but cover should've been changed. However, the limited game modes lower this down to a 6, from what WOULD have been an 8) Lore - 3/10 (Relic should've tried MUCH harder to please those who follow the lore) Army Painter - TBD (We'll just have to see how in depth it goes)

[@hankfistgun7340]

Honestly I feel like the art style of the actual _miniatures_ from the tabletop still have quite a blocky, reductive artstyle. Whether that's a stylistic choice or just due to limitations in GW's manufacturing process, dunno, but the style here is close enough to that that I think Relic's artists can be forgiven for thinking that's what a Warhammer _game_ should have looked like... I think the WH community just feel very strongly that things should look like the illustrations in the codexes/novels (which I totally get; because those artworks are really fucking awesome). Maybe the real issue is all the glowy effects that go along with a digital version of TT? The lights emanating off all the buildings and abilities might be too "arcadey" for some folk. I dunno - I guess I'm in two camps - but I just don't think Relic deserve all the grilling on the art style they've been getting when the miniatures themselves aren't as grim-dark as the illustrations in the books either. Relic went for the "toyset" look rather than the novel/illustration look, and I guess it just didn't pay off for most people. Fully agree on the out-of-place battle flips and power-armour-pirouettes, though... -_-

[@LyricalDJ]

Indy, thank you for your view on DoW III as it is now. As a fan of DoW I and II, I find it difficult to get over the graphics. Gabriel's model (not in detail, but the silhouette and general movement) looks a lot like Uther from Warcraft 3 and not at all like his earlier models. I understand Relic may want to make DoW more accessible, but I'd argue that this change makes it also a less a Warhammer 40k game and less unique. I hope for Relic it does well, but if I buy it it'll probably be on sale.

[@Veldroas]

What about sound design ?

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Yeah I should have touched on that. Like the game itself, its a mixed bag. Some stuff like Heavy Bolters lack punch, and some of the lasers sound pretty pewpew when compared to Dow2 lascannons which sounded intimidating and awesome IMO. But other stuff, like the sound design of the Elite units and special abilities are really, really cool. Overall I think the sound is pretty good, and I have no issues with the voice acting either

[@danyy2011]

Personally I found the new voice for Gabriel very bland and uninspiring, what do you think?

[@axjkalsok1058]

I think maybe my frustration with dow 3 stems from the fact that 40k fans almost never get good games. Dow has always been an exception to that, but dow 3 doesnt capture warhammer like the first two did. Im probably being unfair im sure its fun to play, i juse wanted a truly great, truly warhammer game. Think TW Warhammer, but 40k. Welp, back to being assfucked by CA until they whore out the license to yet another mobile developer.

[@CobaltLotus]

DoW2 captured 40k? It really didn't.

[@axjkalsok1058]

CobaltLotus maybe it didnt for you. I thought it got right what space marines should feel like, even if the battles were relatively small scale.

[@CobaltLotus]

Yeah, but when you can barely field an entire chapter of marines in terms of unit and model count, it really doesn't.

[@axjkalsok1058]

CobaltLotus the fact that you were able to field very few marines made them feel more elite to me.

[@James-sk4db]

Never really liked dow2 prefered dow dc, but i could probably play this id probably prefer it to dow 2

[@arish706]

All they had to do was build upon DOW 1 with enhanced visuals and give you more insight into the vast warhammer lore and given some space marine chapters and more factions. Well an opportunity lost I guess. Love the content and hit insights.

[@VIPCalleo]

The only thing i actually dotn like about this is the obvious visual change and some of the animations for the SM units i saw here. i saw space marines shooting heavy bolters like they where submachineguns and not as the the heavy weapon it is. also didnt like how the run, they run far too bouncy for my taste and that really shows on the terminators who are supposed to be walking tanks, they dont have that weight when they kinda run like they are skipping. im probably gonna buy this game when more content comes out but right now its not even on my wishlist. Since i have ALL the DOW games thats kinda a big deal for me and i hope that i will be able to learn to like the visuals but its gonna be a long way i think.

[@loamage]

I've bought the game already. I love the other games but I prefer to have large scale battles and a more zoomed out camera for me its just more fun. I think they only start with 3 teems because it would take a lot more balancing and every new teem needs heroes and a giant, that would take quite some time to do. like in the other 2 games they added more factions because so many people bought the game. And the new look to the game would make it way easier to run. The new game mode power core its not the only game mode they said in fog of war that its been added to the franchise. Soooo many people are like "ohh DoW3 is a MOBA now bla bla bla" just give the game a chance.

[@Buran01]

What about comebacks and different forms of winning a match? DoW 1 had different ways to win and comebacks and tie matches were common, whereas seems that every match from DoW III becomes a irreversible snowballing after the first 7 minutes?

[@milkandcookiesTW]

I think its the opposite in terms of snowballing. Amassing an army that can actually take an opponents base takes a lot of time, and resources are plentiful. So you can lose early game engagements and still amass an army and get back into the game. At least that was my experience. Some of my friends got frustrated that they wiped an enemy army 3 or 4 times and still their opponent had big armies in the late game

[@Buran01]

I understand. But the way I see it was nothing wrong in DoW 1 with matches ending sometimes as soon as in 8-10 minutes. Anyway, I'll buy the game (as I did with all the previous ones), but if ends with matches as slowly paced as DoW II or DOTA 2 I'll leave the game realy soon. I always have been a mediocre player, but I devoted 600+ hours to DoW 1 + expansions.

[@Morgengrat]

milkandcookiesTW $60 is what most of publishers ask for their games (SC2, actually sold 3 times the same game, for example) with only one campaign and one multiplayer mode.

[@madmorpher635]

Nice review man! Suppose it falls into the same issue most games have nowerdays, a case off "Yeah buy the game and get the rest of it at a later date", personally I hate this form of thinking but i understand they want feedback before adding too the game. Still going to be trying the open BETA though. Having a free/ taster version of the game is always good

[@charleslovegrove834]

I get why they have made a lot of choices and I believe its good to support this game as I believe they are trying new things and after a while will refine what works and what doesn't. But the biggest problem is if they released the original almost exactly with better graphics and smoothed out some of the dodgy bits they would basically nail it. I am glad they are going back to the first one more so than the 2nd. But I feel its more like command and conquer than Warhammer. esspeically as its lost a lot of a aesthetics like cinematic scenes. they were always so much fun.

[@DaiHachiHachi]

I feel like the MOBA thing is only the map design at this point, Every DoW title has heroes with skills, did everyone forget about Last Stand? The color makes it look more like tabletop imo, regardless there has been supposed talk about changing the color grading, which isn't that hard to believe.

[@igncom1]

I would say that the reason people only stick with a game for the multiplayer is because there is literally no other reason to do so. If custom games and coop modes like in starcraft could become the standard for RTS, then we might see a lot more people staying with a game for the content they enjoy.

[@bjack1547]

Brilliant assessment beginning to end. Turning Gabe, a super heavy armor-wearing beloved character, into a bouncing clown to meet a design goal is a disgusting choice, and the most egregious by far. "If you're going to do a game in an established setting with a passionate fanbase, do it right."

[@twirlyturd4364]

the thing is they didnt have to remove sync kills they should of just made them shorter

[@cvv9545]

All I wanted was a game that took what made DOW1 so fun and improved on it. This doesn't even look close... :( I love dota and play it way too much but forcing it into DOW just makes me sad. It was the variety of races each with differing play styles on varied maps that made DOW my favourite game for years, I respect DOW2 but didn't enjoy it at all as it took what i loved and shifted it so far away. It would now seem that my dream of a polished dawn of war that takes and improves on the original remains only a dream.

[@smkbby]

Three factions/bubble cover/wtfisgoingtoomanylights/ballerina Angelos/ONE FUCKING GAME MODE?? = roflno

[@benjamincoker1177]

If a few more races, such as tyranids, neurons and tau were added I might play this game

[@KingSeagal]

I feel that after pages and pages on how DoW 3 is not a DoW game, how it feels like Stracraft, how that is a good thing, how old is bad or new is bad and finally how the voice actors are different, I can only add one simple thing, after 5-6 hours of 9 single player missions and 3 multiplayer matches, I got BORED... so for me I don't even care it's a SC game, I tell you what StarCraft is not boring... so I do not even need 5 pages of reviews, 1 hour long of reviews or a 10/10 stars on some gaming site, the game is just boring for me.... and I'll just let it die in my steam library...

[@omgraggy5358]

But you could have sync kills but with a option to turn them of

[@pronumeral1446]

I'm a "hardcore" 40k fan, been playing since the original DoW and was into 40k before that. 90% of the game's visuals look fine.

[@revanruler6404]

it's your opinion but as a "hardocore" 40k fan I found the visuals way too cartoony

[@gabzdark07]

'I'm a hardcore fan of this franchise so buy the game because I say so' While having a randomly generated username with default picture. You're a shill that's what you are.

[@FM-ge3nf]

If you are a "hardcore" 40k fan then you will remember how cartoony the art/models were back in rogue trader right through to 2nd edition during the 80's/90's. 40k was faaaar brighter and more colorful then than anything in this game. It wasn't until 3rd edition that things started to get really grimdark. And there was a big backlash among the original fanbase when it started to become darker and less cartoonish. For the record I'm not a fan of all aspects of the graphics style personally, they need to cut down the bloom effects. But still, I think people are overblowing it when they describe it as some kind of affront to the franchise...

[@ROIBR]

you nailed it with your comment about ESL. Its not about what Fans want, its about fuckin Money Making! They say: We can make Tournaments and blablabla whatnot. But in the End its only about selling copies! Even if the Game "is good" in terms of a MOBA, its still a Blobbfuck Moba Game no true DoW Fan wants! nuff said😱

[@mikel66661]

To be honest, except for the objetives, the game remind me more to Warcraf 3, an RTS with powerful heroes with special abilities and substantial differences between factions.

[@MrLodgik]

I am the only one who liked the way it worked in DoW 2 ? They made space marine the way the should be

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

Bright colors/effects and hero abilities. I´m gonna pass. They can have their new target audience. They will probably sell well do wish them success, strategy has become so niche, just not for me. This is not 40k to me. I feel about it as I felt about Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2.

[@SebHaarfagre]

Happened to Command & Conquer too, and Settlers. There's more which I can't remember atm. Needless to say, 'nobody' play those series anymore.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

Exactly. Although the settlers 2 remakes was pretty good.

[@SebHaarfagre]

Oh yeah, I should have clarified; Settlers III is probably my favourite in the series ^^

[@ausirider91]

honestly if thats your only issue then why dont you get it the community always comes out with patches like a new skin for the game that would give it the gritty feel your looking for honestly turning down a game because of how it looks i feel would be a mistake because if this gets a decent community behind it with enough people asking for the skin then it more than likely will happen.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

It´s not only about the visual looks, but how the game as a whole looks. Basically all focus is on mp.

[@lasvista2tech]

great review, I think he covered everything from discussions on forums to the game's details

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@BigRed40TECH]

Divisive games don't make money, typically. Because it alienates too many people from the purchase. I think the DoW franchise may be in trouble...

[@jdtremblay2331]

I personally don't like these types of RTS... hope people like this game though because I do want more Warhammer games in the future, a turned based 40k game would be awesome.

[@HBK7239]

Looks like i will continue playing Ultimate Apocalypse mod

[@alecadanglao8386]

I would say the other factions(chaos,tau IG,dark eldar,necrons etc) would come out as DLCs and thats something im not too fond off really, id rather play DOW soulstorm with the UA mod at least u get those in one purchase and you get tyranids and inquisition as well as extra units in the UA mod

[@CobaltLotus]

You don't get all of the races with the purchase of Soulstorm, actually. If you purchase SS itself, you don't have access to other races from earlier expacs without the help of a race unlocker, which is technically illegal. And for the most part, mods barely add new races, they just enhance and add to existing ones. Tyranids is an exception, but that mod hasn't been properly developed in years. For old DoW1, the new races DID come with expacs: now known as DLC. You are literally complaining about nothing.

[@roderic3261]

"And for the most part, mods barely add new races, they just enhance and add to existing ones" Yes... and no, there are up to 20 new races as standalone mods, non just cosmetic, which can also be combined.

[@benshaw9951]

If a developer ever looks at this video and sees this comment then good. I will not be purchasing it for a few reasons. First is that I as a casual gamer nowdays (used to be hardcore but not anymore), I play strategy style games like total war, dawn of war, men of war etc for one main reason, the sync kills and zooming in cinematic gameplay. Its that simple, sometimes I just want to sit back and let the AI have fun, or issue orders on easy difficulty just to view the battle and the awesome sync kills. By making the game more about every unit just shooting in a very boring fashion at whatever is a threat, I find zero fun. If I won a game, I would feel little joy, I want to see the enemy destroyed in a meaningful manner, not 12 people shot them and they fell down like a cartoon character having a heart attack and thats the end. Second main reason is the artwork is a huge miss, I have collected Orks and Warhammer in general for maybe 12 years, I have no attachment to these cartoony representations of orks dancing around. I want to see Gazkull and others looking like the bosses they are ripping people apart and laughing about it. Finally I could possibly maybe think about looking into buying if there was a crap ton more for my money, 3 factions, of which eldar I would never touch, and the distinct lack of variety, its like each faction is a mirror of each other with very few variety in vehicles and units. What exactly am I spending £40 on here? 3 small race packs and one map that looks like its developed by amateurs who hired too many animators to make shit dance and look cartoony. If this was the aim from the beginning I fear they have seriously lost their touch on what people are wanting from a Warhammer game, or even a strategy game in general. Look at Total War Warhammer, for its faults (namely price) we get a huge amount to play with, hell why not just stick to Dawn of War 1 with mods... I don't really see how they are offering me much at all for my money when other alternatives are already on steam. We also have a new open world RPG in alpha (inquisitorial martyr or something), its not like we have a lack of Warhammer games to warrant this excuse of a game.

[@Diree]

You're wrong with one thing though: Apparently this is not what people want from a Warhammer game, since only a few of us actually dislike it - vocally I might add, but still only comparatively few. And for everyone of "us" there's at least one more who is of the opposite opinion. In the worst case they have split the community 50:50, but I actually think it's more like 70:30 (whereby 70 is the percentage of people liking this game as it is). I don't particularly like it. I can't get over the lascannons and plasma weapons issues for one, nor Gabriel doing what he does...but the most egregious is the only game mode they're gonna offer on launch. We need en extensive road map of what they have planned and what they want to charge (or not) for it.

[@Vmann12378]

How is performance?

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Pretty solid for me. FPS seems to be frame locked at 60, I'm not sure if that can be changed in options

[@TheApocalypseShovel]

Super great review! Well balanced evaluation of pros and cons

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Glad you enjoyed it :)

[@Symbioteposion]

Maugan Ra did NOT solo huge fleet leviathan, it was a few ships he went around killing synapse creatures, still incredible, but fuck no, no one has solo'd a hive fleet

[@zombiegoku1243]

If the game releases with mod tools i will consider getting it.

[@nickm7395]

When people complain about bright colors in a warhammer game I seriously can't believe it. I question them as true fans tbqh. There is nothing more 40k than colors. bright colors. there are examples of this in literally every single race through the 20 years I've been a fan boy. There are also examples of washed out or dark visuals and it's really just up to the artists/unit/chapters/craftworld etc you are pulling your visuals from. Hell the artwork early on was SHITTTTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY cartoony. I mean, laughable. BUT I STILL LOVE IT because I'm a fan of 40k past and present. I can get behind the gripe about angelos doing flips in terminator armor but that's about it. The beta was brilliant and I pre-ordered after playing it.

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Bright colors is a pretty big simplification of people's argument. Obviously not everybody agrees, there are plenty of people that dont have a problem with it, but the artstyle of DoW3 is what some people people are complaining about. The glossiness, the cleanness, the more cartoon like artstyle. DoW2 had a ton of bright colors too, but it still went for a more photorealistic and grittier atmosphere. That doesnt mean its better, but thats what a lot of people are arguing. Early 40k artwork and TT models may have been cartoony, but that doesnt really reflect the tabletop or lore now, and its not how the most beloved 40k games look during gameplay. I dont really have a big problem with the visuals, I do think the game looks good

[@TyronMakeka]

Seems like they are trying to push the game to a different group of customers than the fans of the universe. I mean it's understandable why they would try that, the money that Dota, LoL and Counter strike is making is mindboggling, thus it's not surprising they would want to push gameplay elements and visual art styles that mimic those games. However I fear that in their attempt to get they will not only fail in going into that market since they lack the easy to entry for new players in both there being a pay wall AND the steep learning curve. Where their competitors are indeed complex at the highest level it's however definitely easier to get started than an RTS game. The game will in the worst case scenario block off most new comers but also be forsaken by fans that can't identify the game with the universe they have loved for so many years.

[@mj91212]

TyronMakeka I agree with you, but it's "definitely".

[@constanopekundler1847]

how can you launch an RTS without a straight annihilation game mode

[@semitope]

MOBAs are popular mainly because they are generally free to play. its not a good thing to simplify an RTS to the level of a moba in terms of map design and mechanics. Company of heroes is an example of a good RTS, but coh 3 might well end up like this

[@milkandcookiesTW]

DoW3 is not simplified to the level of a MOBA in terms of map design and mechanics. It has MOBA-like elements. It is not even remotely a MOBA. And F2P may be what makes people pick up a MOBA for the first time, but they're popular because they're fun and keep people coming back

[@kalleanka2796]

Wait mobas developed out from older RTS games like Warcraft not the other way around. So if this game has elite units doesn´t mean it´s turning in to a moba just an old school RTS :D

[@gdray82]

Thanks for the balanced review. Personally I don't know if I can get over the art style but if the game play is excellent I may be willing to try it.

[@dinocha0s]

I intially really hated the cartoony looks , but ya know...after watching alot of gameplay i got used to it...its bad but not irredeemable , the main problems i have with this game compared to DOW2 or 1 is mainly Cover system replaced by shitty bubbles/No sync kills (well atleast give us an option to enable it or something)/ and cartoony graphics basicly The only other thing i dislike lore wise is how squishy the 'Expensive Superhuman Astartes' are...they are basicly guardsmen in the gameplay dying by the hundreds each game, the biggest thing i think DOW2 had right...they were not OP but atleast they could take a beating before going down unlike these...tin armored fodder dudes Personally i dont hate Gabes acrobatics (i think its silly tho) but not the point of me ranting about it but all in all DOW3 is a mixed bag...im still buying it with fingers crossed...and if it sucks...ill just have to go to Halo wars 2...sad

[@Diree]

I just wonder if or how they are going to implement the Guard then...give them just 10 times the amount of units to die in 1 hit? I mean there is nothing in the Guard's arsenal safe Shadowswords maybe that could take on these super units and that unit wouldn't be particularly effective against anything else as far as I can recall.

[@Anttown123]

@milkandcookiesTW I have played around 25+ games and lost 2, and from that start point i can say if you know you are bad at RTS games im not sure you will like this cause its a very hard game as he mentioned the elites can wipe out 3+ squads with combination of some abilities and losing squads early game is crucial. Me myself really like it so far and i grow fan of it the more i play but indeed it really needs content. the biggest con is the bs MOBA element it really brings the game down alot and slows it down so much it doesnt need to be this big turtle fiesta it would be much better with just Capture points as he mentioned. im fine with having a core but the the power generators and turrets is just waste of game time. Elites are key in this game and generating new elites is key for this games survival. i would give this 7/10 for now but can easily become 9/10 if changes and additions are made.

[@mam9latek]

The hell are you talking about? There is no real macro and micro is limited to deploying hero and using 1 broken ability to kill half of enemy army. Squads response time is so high that you cant micro anything beside heroes.

[@SanguiniusBAngel]

Good job! Thanks alot for this informative video milka!

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Sure thing!

[@matthiasholm-grevy7498]

So its Dawn of War: e-sports Edition.....a route way too many companies take with their games. Greed is amazing is it not?

[@mam9latek]

Cpt. LanceBeard Its not dude, unless it changes a lot from beta version its too limited to be esport.

[@nalrashido]

8th Edition Warhammer 40k was just announced.

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Cool stuff! Does that mean new armybooks and a few new units for every race or what specifically?

[@nalrashido]

milkandcookiesTW They already teased a new space marine unit in one of the photos on their new website. They announced the Death Guard getting an army, ( I was expecting it to be for 7th edition) new units for the Death Guard and they might have teased Mortarion.

[@nalrashido]

milkandcookiesTW From the new FAQ no army is being discontinued however all codexes atm are now just for fluff and there will be new Rules. A few people think they might "AoS" the rules but I don't think there should be too many changes. 7th Edition had way too many rules and some of them redundant.

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Cool stuff! Yeah I had heard about Mortarion, cool that Primarchs are coming back now

[@nalrashido]

milkandcookiesTW Also Ynnead was born and there's a new faction of Eldar called the Ynnari. Made up of Dark Eldar, Craftworld Eldar and Harlequins who now worship Ynnead.

[@ROIBR]

i swear to Big E that they get rid of Sommersault on Gabriel on release. Then they say: We were always listening to you Guys! hahahahehehehahaha.....

[@markarato8034]

I don't wanna be picky, but if they remained true to the lore, the space marines faction could only have a max population of 3-4 if you want to keep the game balanced... :D

[@CobaltLotus]

You weren't around when Astartes numbered in the tens of thousands and plenty STILL died in droves, huh?

[@markarato8034]

They did, still a squad of marines with Gabriel in front could pretty much wipe out an ork horde, at least one with the scale in the game. I just want to point out, when making games you can't remain 100% loyal to the lore, and that is not a bad thing. I too would love some true grim-dark, but you have to sacrifice some things in the altar of gaming...I mean the Emperor! :D

[@KX5Kat]

Seeing that bubble cover makes me vomit in my mouth.

[@gongal]

I feel ashamed but I truly enjoyed 1v1's in this... I found team games a major clusterfuck tho, and the overall visual effects can cause a brain tumor. My major problems with this game are unclear economy, lackluster UI, no veterancy, small amount of interesting upgrades (Upgrades requiring Elite points would be a great thing for choices/consequences matter). And most of all the only mode of the game is a joke, but I guess I understand why they didn't include VP... Just imagine those Orc turrets spammed around the victory points... ;_;

[@sejemandhaha]

no daemons?

[@SQW0]

DOW3 is not a game made for people who likes the IP or for people that plays games but for mass audience viewing. This is a game made from the ground up to steal a slice of e-sport money. My prediction: fun to watch but not much else.

[@Erebus2075]

hmm maybe i will try it again ^^ didnt like the second game because basebuilding was removed :/

[@Paradoxfrog]

I dont think we need more games coming closer to each other just because the formula works - Dawn of War I and even II where different enough to stand out, this is just a more colorfol starcraft-like-seeming game - sad - i will buy this from steam when its 10.- with all addons - if i wanna play a moba i play a moba, not a moba multiplayer of a once great game

[@haikyuulalajalala1349]

I'm just devastated they went back to only 3 races how can all the other races just be gone, probably to just be resold again which is really the only reason i might not buy it :( makes me sad i loved dawn of war so much........ and now tyranids will never come noooooo!!! i just realized that.

[@1buszybudy13]

Except when your preorders are pretty anemic then you have a problem

[@LillyDarkfire2]

ITs not that bright sense the ALPHA I think its really darker sense then in my opinion

[@DeusExMalto]

I just want Last Stand...

[@MyTomServo]

I hope there's a non-moba game version

[@kuragh]

LOL! Too cartoony.... man that cracks me up. You guys have obviously forgotton 2nd and even 3rd edition 40k, shit was outright ludicrous. 40k is grimdark yes, but has always had an element of comic book like art in the books. Considering they have had dozens and dozens of different artists work for them over the years, the styles ebb and flow and even in the same book will change multiple times. The huge bright explosions / lasers and powers are all right in sync with 40k. As for the powerful characters, thats pretty much 40k (and Games workshop games in general) in a nut shell. Huge, ridiculously overpowered characters being awesome as fuck. Shit is downright metal. One thing i will a gree with is terminators DON't and CAN'T jump 20 ft in the air for crazy big attacks. Thats just dumb relic. Those of you that have just played DOW games and not got into the absoulte absurd awesomeness that is the 40k universe as a whole may be missing a lot of the points here. I for one am KEEEEEEN. (side note, been a hardcore 40k fan since '94. So yes, some of the hardcore fans love the direction this game is going)

[@Dknightxs]

i hope we get mod support and are able to get some mods that bring this pile of crap close to the previous games and closer to tabletop lore. right now this feels like a cross between a moba and starcraft

[@rockdesu]

I'm getting it tomorrow.

[@milkandcookiesTW]

Hope you enjoy it!

[@GStastny0]

I liked the first 2 DOWs and it makes me sad to say, but i wont buy DOW3. The graphics give me eyecancer and the strategic parts arse so dumbed down it really sickens me. Maybe I will have a closer look on this game in 1-2 years.

[@Umbrella4117]

A this point i don't think it can be Worst than DOW 2 I hated Dow 2 Small scale Battle. But i don't understand Why they don't Make a simple Annihilation mode you get rid of Heroes or made them less powerful kinda like DOW 1 and augment the Pop Cap to compensate and there you go everyone is happy i mean today in a RTS annihilation its like an Arcade mode in a fighter. As for the visual Style i don't really mind i always tough that Tabletop figures where a little cartoonist and if you look at the spec required the game run on a GTX 460 1gb(minimum) i mean its clear they wanted the game to perform on many PC's and pop-cap is really high 250 seriously i don't see any problems here and for the Race Space marine are there that's all i need. I am waiting for the Beta to try it and judge if i buy it or not. as of right now the Game Cost 71$ where i am from usually game cost 79,99 so its 10$ less that average game its tempting.

[@herpicusderpicus128]

MOBAs arent bad, they're their own genre. People who want MOBA elements will play MOBAs, but people that play Dawn of War want Dawn of War. The biggest down side to this game for me is its god-awful presentation. the animations, the colour pallet, the weirdly syncing animations, subdued voices and sounds, it doesnt have the character that drew people in so much in the previous games and made people fall in love with their favorite factions even if they were complete newcomers to the franchise and knew next to nothing about those factions outside of what the game told them.

[@razzyrazberries]

3:36 - 4:50 But let me tell you the problem with that whole little spiel. Dawn of War is an RTS series, not a MOBA. Hence why people have a problem with it. They want to add some skill shot skills and stuff, that's fine. However, they turned the whole game into a MOBA. The game took WAYYY too far of a leap in design direction with this one. It's obvious that they were trying to horn in on the MOBA gamers because it is an extremely popular genre. They didn't stay true to the franchise. It's a shame really. Patronize KZbin commenters all you want, but the Steam reviews don't lie. Never trust the large review companies because their reviews are influenced by money (the number of PCGamer "Sponsored" articles on Facebook was sickening). I am siding with the internet on this one. Game is easily my most massive letdown in gaming in the past few years. I honestly hope Games Workshop revokes the license with Relic and gives it to someone else, or at least pressures them to never make another game like this and call it Dawn of War again. At least the first two games were relatively accurate to the lore. This game is more akin to Starcraft 2. Seriously, Space Marines are freaking fodder units, what in the hell were they thinking. It's honestly an insult to the Warhammer 40,000 license, and that's saying a lot with all the WH40K garbage coming out recently. Save your money, and let this one pass. Wait for a big sale at least, Steam Summer Sales are coming soon. I guess if you are looking for an RTS it's not a bad game, but if you are looking for a Dawn of War or Warhammer 40,000 game you're going to be disappointed.

[@tobiasarnullriemann3760]

Good preview / review. I can already tell this game is not something for me. Shame really as Ive played all CoH and DoW and love relic games in general. Here is hoping CoH 3 wont be the same casual moba shiney stuff as this.