Was Dawn of War II ACTUALLY any good? | Retrospective Analysis

[@REgamesplayer]

Dawn of War 2 campaign is easily doable on ironman. Truth be told, you are not really good at that kind of gameplay. I breeze through hardest campaign difficulty in any Dawn of War 2 game or its expansion. Correct positioning of troops and timely usage of abilities are the key. I was actually surprised that you were struggling with it and discovered what happens when you fail a mission from your video. Though, what I had just said won't make you popular with you or anyone.

[@Zade_95]

i am sorry, you are truly a god of gaming

[@REgamesplayer]

@@Zade_95 I just had a knack for this game as it just clicked with me for some reason. Dawn of War 2 games are hardest for me very early on while without abilities. They also at that time are far more fun, because you do not have overpowered abilities and any new weapon is immensely useful. You actually want heavy bolter, because it suppresses enemies rather than it is doing +X% more damage. You want flamer, because it is good against light infantry in cover. You want plasma rifle against heavy infantry. It feels like a completely different game early on. However, your point about it is strange. Why don't you just lower difficulty if it is negatively impacting your enjoyment of a game? Then you complain about there being consequences for failing and that they are too harsh while at the same time you bring examples of how you like unforgiving games. That is, you say that you almost always play on Ironman. However, Dawn of War 2 on Ironman would be far more punishing. Even XCOM Ironman is far more punishing as it can set you dozens of hours back if you lose a veteran or few. I just did not understood that point in your video. Btw: Why are you pinning this comment instead of my detailed explanation of how Dawn of War 2 multiplayer works and its downsides?

[@TheMiandondon]

@@Zade_95 Truly, we have been blessed by the god of gaming! How dare you struggle with a difficult game mode when the simple answers lay in front you? /s

[@startrekmike]

If you know that saying such things would make you unpopular, why bother saying them at all? It isn't like you are giving us important information that must be said regardless of our feelings, you are just being kinda rude for no real reason.

[@REgamesplayer]

@@startrekmike Well, he is a very influential voice on Dawn of War series and how people remember those games. I see him making such bizarre points that this game is hard while I know it is simply not true. I do not believe that he is being fair to the game. Furthermore, I expanded on what I had meant on my second reply and I can't edit first one. Also, he pinned this comment out of all three I wrote. He ignored where I went in depth explaining why Dawn of War 2 multiplayer is bad. He is not a saint either and wanted to ridicule me with pinning down my weakest comment rather than the one on which I spent a lot of effort and went into detail of why game sucked. At least, this is how I perceive this whole situation. I'm a rude bastard, but he is not much better.

[@orkward1226]

Love DOW2. But you forgot to mention that at launch, the game ran on Games for Windows Live. Oh god the horror.

[@Zade_95]

OH LORD i forgot about. game for windows live.... yikes

[@Mike_11_16]

Oh GOD. I remember buying the physical copy of the game, and then being forced to download the digital copy, forced to sign up for Games for Windows Live, AND being forced to sign up for Steam which, back then, was not the absolute titan gaming platform it is now. It took me nearly 2 days to just get into the game itself.

[@simounobrien9096]

Games for Windows. Is there a Window of Opportunity to get away from it? Thankfully they took it out

[@Halomonger]

@@Mike_11_16 lol man i remember, i had never used steam and was worried it was some bloatware virus stuff, and then my graphics card died like right after i fired up DOW 2, good times

[@vde1846]

Christ man, I just got PTSD...

[@jcloiseau]

DOW2 is great. DOW1 is great. The difference is that DOW2 makes you feel like you're playing speed real time chess during multiplayer mode. That's why it is still played to this day and that's why you still have casters like Indrid casting its matches 10 years later.

[@GreyKnight7777]

I was looking for a comment like this. More people stream DoW2's skirmish mode than DoW1 and DoW3 combined on the daily. It's sad that the reviewer couldn't get into it, but the fact of the matter is DoW2 is the best game of the series.

[@richardduska1558]

Honestly I like the multiplayer in DoW2 way more than in 1. in the first game it was more or less a race to get to a big death ball that you can't stop while here every unit has it's counter. So even when you are winning a turn around isn't out of the question.

[@DonCurrywurst]

Completly agree with this. Were currently getting back into DoW Ultimate Apocolypse and DoW II. UA is basicly "who got their shit faster and keeps out of fights longer". While DoW II is more tactical. To use your Kommando Nob to flank a Wyvern that keeps your troops at bay and blow it up by shooting its back, its nothing more than satisfying. I like both games, but for different reasons.

[@BigMikeMcBastard]

Yeah, I love DoW 2. I enjoyed DoW 1 at the time but the better 'realism' of DoW 2 and the overall pacing/faction differences makes it my favourite Relic RTS.

[@Eunostos]

I've always felt a big part of the opinion split is the fact that DoW2 seems to have superior competitive and DoW1 has *way* better AI skirmishes. So it was an amazing pivot for people who play RTS for the former and felt like a betrayal for people who loved it for the latter. Edit: Grammar

[@egorkoshevoy6694]

I just like many others was disappointed with the downscaled small unit based gameplay of DoW2 but damn the art direction of the game both in terms of visual and sound design was absolutely amazing. For me this is the golden standard for how a 40k game should look and sound.

[@Zade_95]

Absolutely! Couldn't agree more

[@inttruders]

I guess I am one of the few that likes both DOW 1 and 2. I am actually glad they are different because I will play them both for different reasons. If the mechanics were exactly the same I think I would probably just play one of them.

[@Zade_95]

Yeah, I mean I would've liked a true sequel to DOW1, but I agree that I think both a great for their own things!

[@jeremyalgood7230]

I’m in the same camp, love them both but have my favorite. If you are disappointed with DoW3 may I suggest WH40k Gladius it’s a hex based 4X game in the vain of the civilization series. It removes diplomacy and feels more like a turn based RTS and has a good selection of races and because of the difference in genre but similarities in scope I like to think it is DoW 3 Currently in the game Space Marines Imperial Guard Adeptus Mechanicus (dlc) Craftworld Eldar (dlc) Necrons Orks Tyranids (dlc) Chaos Space marines (dlc)

[@k-leb4671]

@@jeremyalgood7230 Eldar are dlc? Good grief, how far they have fallen.

[@jeremyalgood7230]

@@k-leb4671 Oh I know man, it’s insane. I just try to buy games on sale.

[@PhilosophicallyAmerican]

Few? Oh contraire.

[@SingletonD]

Playing Dawn of War II for the first time this week. I am not sure what I was doing with my life before I started purging Xenos for the Emperor. I was expecting the game to be dated, but its holds up so well, especially in 1440p 140 Hz.

[@Zade_95]

I'm playing 1440/140 as well. Glorious battle!!

[@SingletonD]

@@Zade_95 Got a resolution recommendation for Dawn of War I? I can't say I relish the thought of playing it with how old it is, but I figured I do start with the high note and work my way down 2-1-3. I am probably going to have C&C Generals flashbacks.

[@AshenVictor]

@@SingletonD Unless you can find the font override mod (which may have disappeared from the internet), don't go over 1920*1080 or you won't be able to read anything because there is no scaling for the text. There is also a widescreen mod which allows you to use widescreen resolutions in Dawn of War/Winter Assault (otherwise not available before Dark Crusade)

[@primachpepe8597]

I am one of those odd people that enjoy both games. As someone with no friends, i almost exclusively play singleplayer games and campaigns, so my perspective may be skewed. I adored the original, so much so that when the sequel came out i immediately went out and bought it. The problem was that it was a games for windows live exclusive at the time - and i didnt have access to the internet. I didnt really get access to the internet until i was in my twenties, at least for gaming, so that probably is part of the reason why i never really made many friends in gaming outside of real life. When i eventually got this game to work, i was a different person to what i was when i played the originals. I was 12-14 when i played them, and i can say i would have been annoyed and had a very different opinion of DOW2 compared to DOW. DOW2 for me, is more of a better depiction of the lore of 40k and how space marines are rather than the original and for that i rate it highly. I have, since getting access to the internet, become a massive 40k nerd and consumed so much lore it is ridiculous so seeing the space marines be the superhuman monstrosities on the battlefield that they are in the lore translate is rather enjoyable. From a more critical perspective, the voicework is phenomenal as well as the sound design. The music sadly doesnt live up to the original i feel, but perhaps thats just my bias. Gameplay wise, i wish there was some base building elements at least for skirmish but it doesnt make sense for the style of gameplay that the more lore correct space marines would be. The main game as well was short on factions, both to fight and play BUT it was a more focused story. As an RTS though, it kinda fails, being more of a squad based tactics game that real time strategy. This is especially evident in the campaign. The odd thing is, i really enjoy the campaign, though i really wish there were more cutscenes that werent just "menacing xeno". The gear system & levelling mechanic for the campaign, i feel, are actually pretty good as it allows you to (much like the lore) adapt to the situation at hand. Going up against vehicles? Grab a power fist or rocket launcher and a melta bomb. Going up against a single entity infantry unit, heavy bolter, sniper riflle and plasma gun. You could even do wacky builds like full melee Tarkus, which when you run the commander & Thaddaus, then add the dreadnaught, it is surprisingly effective, though only on lower difficulties. DOW3 to me is heresy, with Relic listening to the feedback off of this game in that we want more base building so they gave it to us except you are locked in your starting position and the maps are linear so you cant relocate of build a replacement HQ in your buddies base (thus making the whole concept pointless). Then the cover mechanic from DOW2, stripped along with the dynamic movement of the squads (ie, taking cover, ducking when under fire, the weight they had) and replaced with a bubble, so regressing on the strenghts of the 2nd game. So shitting on both player bases. THEN the lore debacle of BACKFLIPPING FUCKING TERMINATORS, giving Gorguts his arm back, and the whole hero system in general. Im glad i didnt buy it. a shame really, i wanted so hard for it to be good. But relic shot themselves in the foot chasing the wider market instead of making a good game aimed at their audience.

[@thomasedgar8612]

agreed, i enjoy both partly since i started with DOW 2

[@Moorhuehnchen]

you are guilty of heresy yourself. you mentioned the cursed title in your last paragraph. it does not exist. the inquisition does not permit it.

[@primachpepe8597]

@@Moorhuehnchen Lord Inquisitor, please i beg thee. I was absolute in my condemnation of that heretical filth, surely i need not be BLAMMMED

[@the_inquisitive_inquisitor]

I like the campaign in 2 but 1 is better for mods and multiplayer.

[@onionhat745]

I think you might be my twin. Get back in the attic.

[@Marinealver]

When DOW II first came out I was turned off by the fact it was only on Steam and the disc was just an unlock code. The Skirmish made it seem more like an RPG and if Relic had released mod tools it could have had a MOBA that would have left DOTA in the dust. Also find it funny that The Last Stand didn't have all the HQ choices. The Story is EXECELENT, I remember a spat between Cyrus and Avitus when Cyrus was telling them about the Tyranids. Avitus: Do you Fear these Tyranids (Avitus basically called Cyrus NOT a Space Marine) Cyrus: (with understandable anger at the insult) I KNOW NO FEAR, but I am not a Fool either.

[@Ziggity]

Clearly Relic's biggest mistake was naming this game Dawn of War 2. Great game otherwise for the singleplayer alone. Though I agree, the boss battles were not very well thought out

[@Zade_95]

YES positioning it as a spin off would've been a smart idea

[@khanhnguyen-tt3ff]

That how they got to keep the liscence to make the game

[@TheBoxtop15]

sequels aren't spin-offs?

[@bluebarrymore5442]

@@TheBoxtop15 no, just like in the COD franchise people know there is a difference between a numbered sequel and a spin off like black ops.

[@Fraggr92]

Yup. For me, going down the path of action-rts INSTEAD of making full rts games was a mistake. Would have loved to see a continuation of DoW with full rts mechanics like the first game, and then had a spin-off series with more action-oriented mechanics like DoW2 and 3. As it is thougn i can't help but feel that DoW2 made the series as a whole worse, and that it set DoW3 on the path to being a failure.

[@rtsfanboy4761]

I didn't like DoW II when I first played it a few years ago, as it didn't feel like an RTS, and as you can probably guess by my username, I love RTS games. But then I was watching a video by the late, great TotalBiscuit earlier this year and he said DoW II could arguably be called an action RPG, like Diablo or Torchlight. I love those games, too, and started DoW II over again with that mindset, and I loved it. I ended up buying the complete DoW II collection. I think it really comes down to expectations with this one. If you know what you're getting into, it's great.

[@ElGreco15]

Play it co-op as well. I've beaten every campaign that way and it's a blast planning your routes with a friend and going for those epic buddy saves.

[@javilo2797]

Rip totalbiscuit boss of bosses

[@charlesdaugherty321]

Failed to name the best item in the game... The Neverending Hail of Destruction. Heavy bolter that never reloads? Yes please...

[@DriantX]

The first time I played DoW II, I really didn't like it because I was expecting a RTS game, a sequel to the original. A few years later I tried it again, but this time acknowledging it's not really a RTS and this second playthrough proved to be a lot of fun. I always thought calling this game "Dawn of War II" was a mistake, this is an entirely different game that could have carried its own name and still shined out.

[@warpbeast69]

How is it not an RTS when it's litterally all the definition of an RTS

[@kampfer91]

@@warpbeast69 i think this is a branch of RTS , the real time tactical strategy . in the early year of 2000s , people still associate RTS with big army and base building until Relic came out with CoH . For some , it was a hard pill to shallow . But the game polished and i think it is kinda fit the lore more as Space Marine is some sort of elite strike force, one could take on many foes at once . The grunt space marine in DoW 1 die too easily and how do one keep pumping them out when they are limited to 1000 marine per chapter .

[@KommandantKavu]

@@warpbeast69 after this game came out I heard it defined more closely to an “Action RTS” or “fast-action RTS” and later on it is probably more accurately described as a RTT or “real-time tactics” game. After Company of Heroes success they really wanted to maintain the small unit focused battles. And honestly had elements of MOBA that didn’t exist at the time, with a focus on commanders and powerful leveled units you want to keep alive in skirmish.

[@Igor369]

​@@warpbeast69 RTS genre is grossly "umbrella'd". The difference between e.g. sup com and starcraft 2 is quite noticeable.

[@the_inquisitive_inquisitor]

@@warpbeast69 eh more like real time tactics than RTS. Especially at the time of release base building and resource gathering were considered core elements of an RTS, so when this came out it seemed like there were major core features missing.

[@benjaminloyd6056]

I know you just covered the base game, but the Elite Mod for DOW 2 adds a ton of things. It fixes a lot of problems, even adds an entire new faction, and has an active community. I recommend Indrid Casts, a KZbinr who does good casts of Elite Mod games.

[@ATOMiiCChicken]

Yeah I play that it makes it loads better

[@k-leb4671]

"...even adds an entire new faction..." The Grey Knights...an entire new faction? They're just modified Space Marines - less modified than the Chaos Space Marines are from the Space Marines. I was hoping the developers would add the Tau.

[@ATOMiiCChicken]

@@k-leb4671 The Destroyer 40k DOW2 mod is better it has Tau

[@benjaminloyd6056]

@@k-leb4671 Personally I was hoping for Necrons.

[@DanielSalazar-ej8lq]

@@k-leb4671 it is a new faction, different heroes and units.

[@GunRunner106]

rember playing the whole game in coop with a friend, was quiet fun. i liked DoW1 btter for being an actual RTS but for like a sort of tac-based hack n slashy lootershooter diablo style it was quite fun.....

[@mr.dmonetizer452]

Quite*

[@IraJavier]

I loved DoW II for what it was. The campaign anyway. It was more of a squad tactical action game vs an RTS. I can see why many wouldn't be happy with that, hell, I wasnt initially. But when I got over that, I had a blast with it.

[@the_inquisitive_inquisitor]

It took me a long time to get over the change in scale, but I ended up really liking the RPG mechanics in the campaign.

[@emreozdemir3164]

is there any other game that you would recommend like this one?

[@the_inquisitive_inquisitor]

@@emreozdemir3164 Hard to say because it's a mashup of genres. I don't know any games quite like DoW2

[@IraJavier]

@@emreozdemir3164 Same boat as Daniel, I've been trying to look for one that scratches the itch but nay. Maybe Dragon Age Origins since that's squad based with some real time action if you play it that way. Of course, that's medieval setting vs. future. Another is Iron Harvest. It's on Gamepass too if you're subscribed.

[@emreozdemir3164]

@@IraJavier yeah playing iron harvest right now with vermintide 2 to scratch the itch. Nice combo I think

[@vaniellys]

I personally have no fun playing DoW II and stick to DoW I, but I'll admit it is a well crafted game. I wish they never changed the core gameplay, because I'm still waiting for a true sequel to Dark Crusade / Soulstorm.

[@Zade_95]

Me too bro. Me too.

[@grimmlinn]

Even blizzard stopped making StarCraft or Warcraft. The good old days of RTS are gone. The truth hurts.

[@CEOofAutism]

@@grimmlinnc&c is dead too

[@richardduska1558]

17:25 I disagree heavily. Skirmish in multiplayer is way better in DoW2 to me. It's much more fast paced and interesting, especialy in 3v3 where you have to coordinate with other people to permorm charges, retreats or counter charges. And unlike in DoW1 here we have an effective counter for every unit. So even If the enemy has a death ball you can break it up with the correct unit types. As for same play style? You have heros that you can chose at the start and they all can drasticly change how you play a faction. Just for Tyranids you have a Hive Tyrant, Lickter and Ravager Prime. first one can be a long ranged DPS or a melee tank for example. Lickter is a hero killer and the Ravager can create tunnels. These things alon alter your playstyle and this is just the tip. If anything that criticisum is much more aplickable for DoW1. Since in that game your faction will play the same every time. Not to mention that there the end game is esentaly just getting a big ball of death and just unleashing it mindlessly. While in DoW2 even in late game things are tense. . 21:45 Ugh... No. Sorry but I can't disagree more with this statement. Literarly the opposite.

[@Marth667]

You must not have much experience with Dow1 multiplayer, you had typical strats that were possible because it was an RTS rather then Dow2's RTT. It was much more then "..just getting a big ball of death and just unleashing it mindlessly" type of game, you could entrench like I loved doing as the guard to secure choke points you could tech rush for tanks as chaos which was such bullshit I loved it. You could XV-88 stealth suit rush or ork infinite wave attacks that crashed the game. Dow2 whilst a good game was a simplified real time tactics lane mode with objectives that trickled down the enemies points. Only two game modes exist. For reference there was assassinate, eco victory, destroy HQ, take and hold, control area and the stupidly wacky sudden death along with the standard annihilate mode. So that's seven modes to two. More over isn't that a general criticism of any strat or tactics game?

[@richardduska1558]

@@Marth667 It is a general criticicsum to ALL RTS. Because it can be aplayed to them all.(Which is dumb) Secondly I'm saying that the end game is that is because that is what it boils down to at the end of the day in pretty much every multiplayer video that I have seen on this site. Also you can also do tech rush or hold dow choke points in DoW2. So I'm realy confused about this criticisum, because it dose not make sence.

[@MrNomis1999]

I prefer DoW 2, and I wish they had made more, the campaign was perfect for someone like me who doesn't like the base building as much and wants a more chill experience

[@bm7945]

Love the campaign and the micro management you need to do as well as the itemization and the skills of the characters. Actually a sweet spot 😁. Love the campaign

[@DanielSalazar-ej8lq]

Right here. Base building is what I dont like about rts

[@gn019202492000]

@@DanielSalazar-ej8lq Same.

[@Mode-Selektor]

Part of what made the DoW2 skirmish not stand up as well to DoW(1) was the maps just didn't seem as varied. I think the core of the game was actually quite good.

[@MrNomis1999]

@@Mode-Selektor I never played any online skirmish and only very limited against the ai, but I've completed the campaign like 5 times with the expansion and retribution

[@DCGMatthew1]

It's great, but I still play the original Dawn of War games way more. Man, base building is just too fun. Maybe it shouldn't have been called Dawn of War 2.

[@igorokinamujika2073]

Dow II was the first DoW (and my first contact with Warhammer 40k), so I may be a bit biased. As someone who likes strategy games but isn't a fan of base building, this game fit me perfectly. I enjoyed it a lot more than DoW 1. I love the campaign concept of limited deployments, unreplaceable losses (bery fitting for 40k) and secondary missions. As a curisoity, Battlefleet Gothic Armada 1 also used a campaign system very similar to this (just with ships isntead of squads and solar systems instead of regions and sectors instwead of planets) and I also enjoyed it a lot (maybe even more than DoW II). That said, I think Chaos Rising is the best of DoW II. Its campaign is more linear, but the story, level design and atmosphere are more interesting. PD: 1:30 is that a hint to a Homeworld Remastered review? Since Homeworld 3 is scheduled to Q4 2022, I guess the timing is right. Just, please, don't ignore Deserts of Kharak and specially Cataclysm. There is a reason why a lot of Homeworld fans regard Cataclysm as the best one.

[@TheKaos8]

oh yeah homeworld cataclym, or homeworld emergence as it is now called. A truly loved game of mine.

[@thomaswilliams8270]

DoW 2 has some of the most entertaining RTS multiplayer around. Just was, unfortunately, not what most of the existing fanbase wanted.

[@B3n3f1t]

What DoW 2 offers no other RTS offers it in this way! That's why I rate it as one of my top 3 RTS games and to this day I still return from time to time to it and I'm not even a 40k fan.

[@NexusWarior211]

It's a company of heroes reskin with melee lmao. "Offers what no other RTS offers" my ass, play more RTS games for fuck sake.

[@kongfeet81]

I only wish there were a sandbox mode that let you travel around and do missions.

[@Zade_95]

That would be nice actually!

[@michaelrogerson6939]

Playing DoW II, I only really had trouble with two bosses, and those two were the Avatar of Kaine and the Great Unclean One. They just had too much health, which made their fights a game of using skills on cooldown, sticking around long enough to take damage, and then retreating to the reinforcement point. They didn't feel exactly tactical. Also, Cyrus with the remote detonator felt a bit too powerful. Finally, the melee trees on several characters felt pointless, since they couldn't carry melee weapons. But otherwise, I highly enjoyed DoW II. It's a callback to the subgenre of RTT with some ARPG elements thrown in, which I believe was an experiment that worked, instead of just Company of Heroes with a different skin.

[@the_inquisitive_inquisitor]

IDK if you're bad at protecting Avitus I could see someone putting points in his melee so he can at least knock back attackers.

[@OriginalRAB]

Preferred 2 to 1 even though I liked both. I thought getting rid of buildings was a brilliant way to speed up gameplay. Apparently I'm basically alone in that.

[@roundishcap]

C and C 4 did the same thing, but in a slightly more inept way. Sometimes it just clicks, sometimes it feels clunky.

[@benedeknagy8497]

I liked the campaign and multiplayer, but the skirmish mode was a frustrating whack-a-mole, as the AI was runing around with single squads capturing points. My only real beef with the Game was the scale. 2 fully upraded guardsmen squads taking up almost 1/3 of the unit cap severly limited combined arms options.

[@bigbenhgy]

That was my problem to, in DoW2 you could only have 5 upgraded space marine squads (all having 3 marines and a sergeant) and if you chose that, you couldn't have any tanks etc. while in DoW1 you could have 10 squads those could have heavy bolters so you had more options too. Also after the campaign, where in the heavy bolter squad everyone had the big weapon and in the skirmish only 1 had it from tat squad was a disappointment too, but I liked the campaign a lot more in DoW2 than in 1.

[@benedeknagy8497]

@@bigbenhgy Yup. Even compared to CoH2, the DoW2 unit limit was sevely restricted. The pop cap is 100 in both game, but in DoW2 the units take up double the pop. For example, in CoH2 and MG42 squad costs 6 pop, while a heavy bolter team in 12. A halftrack in CoH2 is 5, the chimera is 10. Panzergrenadiers 8 pop, guard stormtroopers 15 pop. And so on.

[@k-leb4671]

I never liked the way squads were composed in DoW2 and how the factions were scaled relative to each other. There's really not many more Guardsmen than there are Space Marines per skirmish (not many tanks either), and Space Marines don't operate in squads of 3 - they operate in squads of 5 to 10, with most missions only requiring 1 squad to complete. Plus, heavy support squads shouldn't revolve around only one heavy weapon user with his posse. A Devastator Squad should have multiple heavy weapons. It's the Tactical Squad that only has one heavy weapon.

[@TheMagicalPinata]

@@k-leb4671 Well both games are unrealistic or not true to the lore. DoW 1 you'd throw wave after wave of Space Marines at the enemy. So like every skirmish was literally the death of a chapter, considering they are only 1000 strong haha.

[@marcin8112]

DOW2 might be a great game in its own right but it shouldn't have been called DOW2, they should just create a new IP with a unique name. I remember finishing DOW1 and all its expansions, then I found out that DOW2 exists, I loved DOW so much that I bought it right away without even checking what it looks like. I thought it would be the same RTS game I loved but just better and bigger... all I can say is I was really disappointed and frustrated once I started its campaign... I'm not taking anything away from DOW2 but it should have been called something else to avoid confusion and disappointment.

[@THENEW6]

I love both. And I love DOW 2 more. A LOT more.

[@tehkill3r]

Yeah its the best in the series

[@Throne_of_Games]

DoW 2 Campaign and The Last Stand were my go to modes for this game. I really enjoyed playing them both, the latter more so (Chaos Sorcerer Main at the time). My gripe with the game was the lack of maps in Campaign, and playing on the same map for the 16th time really bored me. Thankfully that changed when Rise of Chaos came out.

[@KingOfMadCows]

I like the game in general but I think it was a mistake to make the Tyranid the main villains. The smaller scale of the game doesn't really do a good job of portraying the endless swarms of the Tyranid.

[@k-leb4671]

It was a lose-lose situation. They realized they couldn't portray the Tyranids the way they wanted in DoW1's limited engine, and then Dow2's engine was more powerful so they decided to finally add Tyranids but then changed the gameplay at the same time.

[@REgamesplayer]

Dialogue between characters on campaign screen are the best it ever had been. It is full of lore and establishes personality of each character. It was that made the campaign. You do not give it enough credit by pointing out that conversations in them as a whole are a lot of higher quality and quantity that they were in Dawn of War 1.

[@148crusader]

>Was DoW 2 good Short answer Yes, but not because it was an traditional RTS like the first was.

[@Zade_95]

good tldr

[@148crusader]

@@Zade_95 I can understand why people who don't like DOW2 have their complaints because the direction the game took was a pretty sharp change from the first game. Something I've noticed is that the people who dont like DOW2 tend to love total apocalypse for the first game.

[@dontshootmex5588]

My take on the games always was DoW1 & expansions: best skirmish and multiplayer DoW2: best campaign DoW3: just... nah

[@Zade_95]

😂

[@darkranger116]

Dawn of War 2 had a more simple execution. From the streamlining of the base building, to the focus on hero ability explosions, the lower unit count, the simplified counter system between unit types. It had function, but.. it was also kinda obvious from my pov that they wanted more form in appearance than 40k grit in practice. And i cant think of a better example of what im talking about then tactical space marines having no melee damage presence because they were the "ranged" option.

[@Awesomotron2k]

The secret sauce to breeze through the campaign on highest difficulty: Cyrus. He scouts for you, he can have unlimited demo satchells, grenades, meltabombs and mines, His sniper Rifle and Shotgun Abilities are incredibly strong, especially the snipe can deal with stuff like Nobs, D-Canons, Rangers, Tyranid Warriors etc. He can also revive your Squads while cloaked and reinforces himself automatically. Assault Canon Thule, Rapid Fire Avitus with the right misslelauncher (The one that doesn't need reloading) are also extrmely good. The only Real trap is the Assault Marines, they are just too glasscanon to work well. Assault Termies are okayish, but I'd Rather have one of the above.

[@startrekmike]

If Dawn of War II had been the start of a sort of off-shoot series, I think I would have liked it a lot more. That said, it is hard not to feel like Relic's hard pivot towards a more high-level competitive/e-sport friendly focus was a loss for the RTS genre as a whole. They entered the scene with some really interesting titles like Homeworld, Company of Heroes, and Dawn of War. All of those titles had strong identities and really represented what happens when you put a lot of focus matching up the gameplay to the overall theme. With Dawn of War II, we lost that and we continued to lose that with Company of Heroes II and even Dawn of War III. What makes that loss even more sad is that we didn't really gain anything in the process. We already had developers in the RTS space handling small scale, micro-heavy high-level competitive/e-sport focused RTS's. Having Relic go all-in on that as well was just a loss and nothing gained. Dawn of War II isn't a bad game but it isn't a very good follow-up to Dawn of War and doesn't really provide the "tabletop come to life" experience that the first title did. That may not bother some but it isn't a great thing overall.

[@kampfer91]

Kinda disagree there , DoW 2 was actually good . They took the risk and it worked . You will find the equal amount of people dislike DoW2 and like DoW2 . However you will find people overwhelming dislike DoW 3 as it is a pile of crap .

[@startrekmike]

@@kampfer91 DoW 2 wasn't a bad game. It just wasn't the right kind of follow-up. It would have been fantastic as a spin-off but as a whole, it is hard not to feel like DoW II going more towards the high-level competitive crowd was a loss. We already had Blizzard making that kind of thing, Relic didn't need to follow along quite so lock-step. Dawn of War I worked so well because it felt like a Warhammer 40k RTS. DoW II is controversial because it feels like it is trying to be something else with only a thin coat of 40k paint on the top.

[@Zade_95]

I think it'd be easier to accept if it was a spin off for sure

[@Gallic_Gabagool]

@@startrekmike I dont think it "only a thin coat of 40k paint on the top"... in fact I'd say DOW2's campaign is more lore friendly than the way the battles in DOW1 missions go. The space marines are the actual surgical strike force/superpowered angels of death that can kill mountains of Orks with only a hand full of men as depicted in lore. DOW1 by contrast treats the space marines like regular soldiers and individual ones will die constantly. And I'd say the voice acting in 2 really fits well for the universe, just like with 1. I guess you are talking about the multiplayer mostly? Will be honest dont play much multiplayer in general.

[@startrekmike]

@@Gallic_Gabagool My point of comparison is very much rooted in the tabletop experience as a whole. In the first Dawn of War, the armies you would build up were not utterly massive but they did more or less feel pretty in-line with what one would expect from a large tabletop battle. Dawn of War II did away with that. You can't even field a 1500 point standard tabletop army in that game and it really kills the sense of scale.

[@aunrah02]

Undying Silence had to be the made up one. Envoy of Suffering is the single greatest title for a weapon ever. The Litany of Litany's Litany, would be proud

[@niichhe]

I personally love DOW 2's skirmish, as a person who doesn't enjoy base building all that much, its a blast to play against CPU with large battles on 6p maps.

[@CrazyMattLine]

A fair review, but I disagree with some points. I think skirmish has a lot more going for it, but it really only shines at higher difficulties or in multiplayer when it's more hectic and more creative tactics are required. The easy and medium AI's are just too basic to require much of the deeper mechanics. In particular, maps that allow for more solid defensive lines (unfortunatley not many vanilla maps allow for this) and the FFA maps are really the best way to play. That said, Chaos Rising and Retribution bring a lot more to the table in terms of skirmish, particularly improved defensive options.

[@Zade_95]

Well said - keen to see what the expansions bring along!

[@mdandrews]

I absolutely love both. Dawn of War 2 feels a tad more true to the lore, perhaps most for me from the standpoint of having very few marines available to you but they feel like they should, badass and powerful and a big loss when you lose one. Rather than having companies worth of marines to hurl at enemies on Kronus. Just a nitpick from a lore guy but that really made a difference for me. But like I said I love both dearly. Dawn of War 1 was what introduced me to 40k when I was like 12, and that pretty much changed my life with how much I have loved it since.

[@Rekaert]

It's been a good run for DoW. DoW1: Excellent. Winter Assault: Nice addition. Dark Crusade: They peaked. Perfection. Soulstorm: Janky, but playable, and deserves a special mention for being the source of so much many quality memes. DoW2: Divisive, but personally loved it. Chaos Rising: Nice addition, and introduced Space Hulks outside their own game style. Retribution: The crazy love-child of DoW1 and DoW2 that never really worked for me. DoW3: Don't know. Didn't buy it.

[@danfelboz8237]

I wish DoW II was more like CoH it's so based upon gameplayvise but can't exactly imagine how to realize without it ending up like a dishonouring revamp. I still think they missed the opportunity for the 40k series to be a flagship to all basebuilding RTS fans that are so left out nowadays (especially considering Blizzards attitude towards their legacy). With the current flow of the franchise though I think Total War Warhammer 40k is more at hand. Guess that's what I get for wanting more Mark of Chaos sequels :/

[@Gallic_Gabagool]

I dont think total wars foundational system (i.e. troops in block formations attacking each other) would fit 40k. You really cant go beyond like mid 1800s type setting for a total war game. Warhammer Fantasy works because its basically medieval setting.

[@danfelboz8237]

@@Gallic_Gabagool That could be where some innovations to the genre would kick in. You would be playing those large cutscenes, basically. I dunno though. It even looks like mess in my head and I sure am no strategy game developer to have good ideas in the matter. While I fiddled with this one I basically ended up at Battle for Middlearth 1, so ... nothing new.

[@SilentNight115]

I sense many of you are not familiar with the DoW: Ultimate Apocalypse mod.... so much glory

[@Wolf-fighter]

honestly i dont know wtf the cluster fck of dow 2 and 3 was. the ua mod alone they could have simply copied everything from the mod made the graphics better and sold it as new dawn of war game lol. the ua mod is a better new dawn of war than dow 2 or 3. it added so much way mnore than all the first dawn of war (dlc) parts together

[@machuncz1261]

The lack of base buildding was a huge no go for me. Fights seemed good but man ... I just love base building

[@burstingwizard975]

The first DOW and winter assault were very good. The first campaign had a good story and I really enjoyed watching relic build on it in DOW2 Dark crusade and soulstorm were frustrating. Relic never quite figured out how to scale the difficulty in a satisfying and consistent way. Every battle was either too easy or punishing DOW2 was (mostly) perfect. It dials back the RTS aspects slightly and in exchange offers RPG elements that make your units way more awesome than their generic counterparts in DOW1. It offers a consistently satisfying challenge and new stratagems to play with. Chaos rising was the absolute best of DOW2 since every map was unique and it wasn't as derpy as retribution was at times Retribution was generally mediocre but I can forgive it's flaws since a) the ork campaign is hilarious and b) because last stand was excellent

[@mortisoculi8943]

I liked Dow 2, because the first game had nothing to really stop you from turtling until you had enough units to steamroll the enemy, while dark crusade and soulstorm encouraged that playstyle.

[@evagelospapamixail9139]

and c) you could train units have your own unit progress and each faction units focused on what they do best and you had to learn to use their strength instead of doing the same start over and over again

[@SuperDoggy99]

The lack of base building, Tau, and Necrons (and, to a lesser extent, Sister of Battle and Dark Eldar) made for a "lesser" game, in my opinion. In some ways, i liked the smaller skirmish style of the battles, and the graphics were fantastic, but the maps were decidedly small and the Company of Heroes mechanics, while interesting, tended to focus of tighter tactics. This wasn't "bad", per se, but the game felt much smaller. I liked both games, as each had something to offer.

[@Hosenbisla]

Thinking that DoW1 multiplayer is deeper than DoW2s multiplayer is crazy to me. I had the feeling, that every DoW1 Match played exactly the same, not matter what map or Enemy faction you fought. But in DoW2 every game felt different depending on the map, the faction and the commanders chosen by you or your enemy.

[@AkaiAkumu]

My main gripe with DoW2 is the skirmish mode. The ai battles turn into a game of taking and retaking resource points. The ai does not focus on battle and war of attrition like in COH and DOW1, it just ignores you and rushes to the resource points. Making the battles really not fun. And with the smaller scale of events and less units than in the previous game you dont really have much strategic options other than to outrush the ai to capture said points. It is a bit different in multiplayer true. But i just dont enjoy the mp experience. Too competetive when you just want to play a simple quick skirmish game.

[@AkaiAkumu]

That said the small details in the game are really enjoyable. The ammount of work they put into the voicelines and sound effects is beyond any rts game i played. With the units reacting to different situations with different voicelines. Subtle changes of tone like the space marines rasping and gasping when taking cover when under fire. It is truly marvelous. And the physics is something else. When your marines get killed and blasted off by explosions straight into walls, destroying said walls in the process and creating a pile of rubble covering the corpse. Such small effects really bring out the best such battle can offer. Alas again the scale of combat is something that takes away part of the pleasure. Still its levels above what DOW3 cooked up.

[@w4rd3n14]

We the honorable Blood Ravens never did steal anything that are all presents from other Chapters honoring our great Archivments!

[@Maurinusa]

I really liked DOW 1 and was wary of DOW 2 initially. However, I gave the game a shot and absolutely loved it. The DLC campaigns were fantastic additions, as well. I still go back and play this game every so often

[@BlitkriegsAndCoffee]

The only problem with DoW2 is that its such a departure from DoW1 gameplay. The game itself though is far more polished than DoW1 ever was, and after a lengthy adjustment period, I now find I strongly prefer its gameplay to DoW1. (Although Company of Heroes 2 ended up being the best of both worlds and replaced both for me)

[@THENEW6]

Dawn of War II is one of the few games where Space Marines are powerful true to the canon. It is repeatedly said that the events of the campaign were carried out by only a "handful of space marines", or something in those lines. This leads me to thinking that, canonically, fifteen space marines stopped an ork Waaagh, an Eldar craftworld and a tyranid invasion. The Force Commander 4 tactical 3 devastator 3 scouts 3 assaults 1 dreadnought Of course, in-game your troops die because they have to, you can't have fun with immortal units. But, in my opinion, the "canon" of DOW II would be those fifteen marines doing all that by themselves.

[@MrNct98]

That's the best timing ever omg, I felt an urge to replay the dawn of war series this morning and found your channel just now with this upload

[@Zade_95]

coincidence ? >:)

[@ariashkenazi9211]

I liked DOW2 plenty, it just didn't feel like a DOW game to me. I beat DOW2 once and I've never felt the urge to go back, whereas I'll play through each DOW1 campaign every couple of years.

[@Zade_95]

Yup agreed - I think having it as a spin off would've been smart

[@ShootingStar1313]

The campaign of Dawn of War 2... my guilty pleasure. I know its missions aren't as engaging as those found in Company of Heroes or Dark Crusade, but I still enjoyed them nonetheless. That bombastic music always gets me in the mood for xeno slaying.

[@KingMonkeyEnma]

Why can’t they just visually update Dow1 for me already. No changing gameplay no nothin. Just graphics. YEEESH

[@philpeters3689]

I really enjoyed dawn of war 2 Don't expect to get the same experience as dawn of war 1. That's just being silly But building and choosing your team and the all the buffs and loot to your characters was great

[@Zade_95]

Big agree, well said

[@kevorkyijan118]

Side notes: 1) Avitus damage and range are off the chart, can get up to 700dps and 3/4 screen range. 2)Tarkus is basically unkillable 3)Cyrus can land so many mines that ..nothing else matters ...he can just win every map on his own 4)The force Commander is just an heal bot 5)Thaddius is useless. 6)Some items are not balance, heavy bolter for Avitus triple his damage for the sake of balance,Plasma rifle for tarkus ...ignore armor and always hits dealing massive damage, back attachment and armor for Force Commander makes him regen so much hp per second that you can literally go Afk during a fight...he wont die. The last stand Sorcerer with before nerf was like cheating ...to much damage and not cost inefficient.

[@bombidil3]

DoW2 campaign started my addiction to "Item Descriptions." Every single piece of gear having delicious flavour text made the squad customization super satisfying.

[@brunofeitosafl]

I'm a "Age of Empires II guy", been playing it for the last 24 years. Last year tried Starcraft and was amazed. This year moved to Dawn of war and Oh boy, played the expansions and now will try DoW2 and Everywhere people say it's not the same as the first and it's kinda of a let down... But will try it anyway.

[@Shortyland05]

Dawn of War 2 is fun, but I can understand why some people don't like it after playing DoW1. For one thing you can't attack move your units across the entire map.

[@charliebeareuwu]

Hey, I just wanna say I really appreciate how everyone in the comments' section are being nice, and not shaming each other cause their self-esteem is solely built on being better at a game than someone else

[@LTG22]

Just finished the entire collection, I was sleepwalking through this. They are correct, you are just not familiar with this title. Even easier if you're a fan of the franchise. So straightforward and simplistic, it holds your hand through most of the game. The biggest challenge will of course be playing other people.

[@richardduska1558]

15:56 Yes there is. Depending on the hero you pick at the start. Tech marines can bring in Tarantula turrets to surpress a choke point. Or Imperial Guards. They can construct bunkers that can be used by units (be it allie or enemy) to make it close to imposible for the enemy to get trough. Or you can just put down a heavy weapon squad and let them sit there to prevent enemy advancment. I'm starting to get the feeling that you are just not very good at this game.

[@Marth667]

No no he's right, there isn't much diversity between 'heroes' you can pick they don't dramatically change how you play the faction and often times have the same global abilities that are reused. CoH at least provides you with unique units that only that commander has access to similar to what DoW3 has. Not sure how him being supposedly bad at the game has to do with his critique on this aspect of MP.

[@TheBoxtop15]

@@Marth667 Except that there is: the chaos lord and the sorcerer; even between the chaos lord and the space marine commander do very different things. different heroes do have spefic units only they can create, and although there are abilities that overlap every hero has unique ablilites.

[@synthetic240]

I've been playing DoW2 Elite Mod for ages. There's at least one caster on YT (Indrid) that still regularly casts 3v3 matches and 3v3 faction battles (where each side plays the same race). They added in a whole new faction with the Grey Knights as well as new units for each other faction, balancing, maps, and some special faction model designs. True, the point capture style is still the case (attacking bases is generally frowned upon) but I find that not having to worry about base-building means I can focus on my tactics. Also, when you're evenly matched, battles become a back & forth rather than one side stomping the other.

[@sagacity1071]

DOW1 has own of the most ambitious mods ever made... UAM? Not sure how you can say its lacking modding. Yes... DOW3 is that bad dont worry.

[@dominikmagnus]

19:40 "Maybe it's not that bad..." An open mind is like a fortress with its gates left unbarred and unguarded.

[@jittersgeyser620]

They could make decent money with some cheap expansions. A Necron expansion. A Tau expansion. Etc. Id pay 20$, maybe 30$, for a 2 faction expansion.

[@KimJungGooner]

There's a mod called "Vengeance of the Blood Ravens" for Dawn of War two: Retribution which is really good. It adds among many things, Horus Heresy Space Marines, and Horus Heresy traitor legions. I was able to recreate the betrayal at Calth between the Ultramarines and Word Bearers. Pretty cool.

[@Zade_95]

I'll keep it in mind when I play it! Will get it a crack :)

[@pavlotverdokhlib7627]

Disagree about the (lack of) dread factor. The countdown that got introduced once they Tyranid threat was in full swing is enough to keep reminding you that you are on a clock, and need to keep hopping between planets to both progress your stories along the Eldar and Ork storylines, but also keep doing the Tyranid missions (which were, admittedly, boring and repetitive) to keep the counter down. I didn't love the removal of base-building in DoW II; but I appreciate what it tried to do, and the grand campaign was neat, and did enough to keep me engaged.

[@Zade_95]

That helps I agree, I guess I just would've preferred to see it reflected in the presentation and cinematics etc

[@Chuck_vs._The_Comment_Section]

Those who are bothered by Squads being too small, battles not being bombastic enough or SM dying too quickly can simply try out the "Wrath of the Blood Ravens" mod.

[@machineelf9459]

I have the exact opposite opinion of you. I still play multiplayer skirmish to this day and have had no interest in finishing the campaign or Last Stand. Honestly this games multiplayer is incredibly fun. Maybe you only played skirmish versus the AI? That I guess I could understand. And I suppose some people played it for the story and role playing rather than it’s mechanics.

[@MatteV2]

They missed out on some amazing storytelling by making Force Commander Hairgel the "silent protag" type.

[@Mesos92]

Any fans of the first DoW that haven't checked out impossible creatures should do themselves a massive favor. The UI and even resources translate very well. Very unique game that I wish would come back.

[@WarlockInTraining]

Warhammer 2 online is the most fun thing ever got bored Warhammer 1 multiplayer but Warhammer 2 multiplayer and the mod Elite just gave me ungodly amount of hours

[@kinghoodofmousekind2906]

I loved both DoW1 and DoW2; different games for different feelings, and both are flawed yet fun titles.

[@robertfisher8359]

Did anyone else watching this video ever just bring Cyprus with his high powered sniper rounds and loaded with all the demolitions kits to allow him to virtually solo EVERY enemy faction in the game?

[@mekrot1]

Awesome video! Summed up the way I felt on the sequel too. I'd love a vid on the DLCs for this game.

[@Zade_95]

Thanks Jeff! Yep, will probably take a short break on another series then do Chaos Rising and Retribution straight after

[@mkatakm]

I hate resource collecting, base building, army building, thus I hate regular RTS. But I loved this game. I was expecting DoW 3 to be like 2, but it wasn't. Had been great disappointment for me. I wish there were other games like DoW 2, but I didn't find any until now.

[@Geesaroni]

I'm glad you're doing another video on the DoW2 expansions. Retribution was... ehh, it was all right? A lot had to be sacrificed at the altar of making every faction playable. The Chaos Rising campaign, though, _woof_. All those problems with limited replayability and the shallowness of the characters, just, blown up with a plasma cannon.

[@Zade_95]

Yeah keen to get into them - videos soon (TM)!

[@PrecentorFocht]

Please expand on Elite mod and the insane amount of work love and sweat the community is pouring into that game.

[@NOGREATNAME]

Honestly I liked how this game played it felt more like it would for the TTG obviously faster paced but having to position yourself and to make sure you had gear that was needed to go against the enemies you planned to fight it’s what really made it fun for me, I think I’d enjoy it more if I had someone coop with me

[@majmage]

Multiplayer and skirmish in DOW2 were fantastic. Visually the game did such a fantastic job of combat spectacle that I watched _hundreds_ of replays just for how fun the battles were. Singleplayer felt significantly worse, mostly due to the endless-meatshield enemies you'd fight. It was a slog. I enjoyed the RPG elements a lot, I just wish they were tied to a game with better campaign combat (and which included strategic decisions). That said, I also wasn't a huge fan of DOW1's campaign, though my criticism was more of the portrayal of the storyline being so much weaker than DOW2's. (The gameplay was better and more focused on RTS strategy, but the story presentation weaker.) I don't think I completed either game's singleplayer, but for both I played hundreds of hours in skirmish and multiplayer.

[@gambit0913]

i enjoyed DOW2 simply because as an original table top fan, as much as i enjoyed DOW1 (and all expansions) i did not enjoying spaming space marines which is impossible in cannon since the Horus Heresy....the game isnt without its flaws but despite being exclusively single player these days, i still enjoy replaying this game every few years

[@bilbo1778]

6:22 - I'll always associate Steven Blum with voicing Spike Spiegel in the Cowboy Bebop English dub - as a bit of an anime snob who almost always prefers subtitles the CB dub is an anomaly where I daresay the English voice cast actually did a better job than the original cast - even more surprising considering anime was very much a niche genre back in the late 90s so most dubs were very poorly produced & acted. As such the outstanding performances of the dub cast made them all the more memorable - he was also the voice of the Toonami robot. 🙂 If you're still reading an interesting bit of trivia is that a couple of Bryan Cranston's early roles were voice overs in (terrible) anime dubs - he was in the Macross Plus OVA & Armitage III - everybody's gotta start somewhere!!!

[@krzysztofaleksandrowicz9200]

DoW 2 with it's both expansions was a masterpiece!

[@Laneous14]

I think Starcraft 2 was the last real RTS. The new RTS games just don't feel right. The controls are too sluggish or too slippery, the game play loop is too simple or too tedious, or the game itself is just underwhelming. The games from the golden age of RTS just have that perfect balanced feeling.

[@TheControlBlue]

You cannot talk about the DOW2 Multiplayer without mentionning the Elite Mod. The Elite Mod shows the potential and validates the design decisions of DOW2, it shows the strengths of that Tactical scale over the mass-approach of DOW1. Both are great games, but if we are talking about active communities, DOW2 won.

[@ThatDjinn]

I'll be honest - title seems like a bad clickbait. DoW2 is extensively played even today with the Elite Mod. I reject the idea that one DoW's style is better than the other. Both games are good. Then I remembered how tribal W40k fans are, so maybe the clickbaity title is more fitting than I believed at first. Unfortunately DoW1 did not age well. The biggest problems being low camera (unmodded) and terrible pathfinding and unit-blocking. DoW2 plays a lot better, but that's because it had several years of industry-wide progress when it comes to strategy game AI on top of a smaller-scale encounters with lower unit numbers. If DoW1 was remade in DoW2 engine while retaining all of it's mechanics then both games would be perfect the way they are. All this tribalism about DoW1 being the only good one is foolish.

[@abbcc5996]

DoW 2 is NOT a skirmish game, honestly i never understood people who play CoH or DoW 2 for its skirmish, compstompers used to make me genuinely angry actually. i used to play both games in competitive and public lobbies a decade ago and im yet to find any RTS that was like it for multiplayer. its very rewarding to use a mekboy and teleport around to victory in a versus game or to use a kommando nob in a free for all to blow up all your enemies to the victory line without ever getting into a shootout. also i played the campaigns of the vanilla and all expansions in co-op with my brother, that way its more manageable + you can play more tactically + much more fun. using cyrus with upgraded stealth + stun nades (enemies won't run away from explosives when they are stunned) + c4 instead of just a sniper for example

[@charliebeareuwu]

I agree, the bosses kinda suck. That said, the fact that one wrong move can make everything go wrong I don't dislike. It means it takes thought and careful and thorough decision making to win. That said, I'm a fan of very finicky games like Arma 3 and Wargame: Red Dragon and such, so it could be just a thing I personally like that most people don't

[@-umph]

Base building just feels integral for many rts fans. It lets you RP. World building for yourself. It ruined this one for me.

[@-JustHuman-]

I must say I never did find it that hard, but I also found myself in a grove of using the same units and tactics a lot. As the sweeping attack of the Dreadnought really was great to use to push all units back and then the heavy bolter to cover and micro the sniper to take out priority targets and you find yourself in a pretty good spot. The Last Stand play was also so fun, really liked the Tau commander.

[@kabukijo3148]

big battles of dow 1 > small boring skirmishes of dow 2

[@PP-th4ft]

Unfortunately you're completely off the mark regarding the skirmish mode. There is quite a lot of variation and room for individual playstyles between different heroes, units and wargear options. They may seem limited on first glance but the choices you make are quite significant, because many little details matter. This mode underwent several changes along its life cycle and Relic never really manage to round it out perfectly, but with Elite Mod there is still a dedicated community not only keeping it alive, but expanding on the skirmish mode with new heroes, factions, balance patches, rankings and broadcasts. I can only recommend you check it out and take another look at it, as there is a lot of fun and depth to be found there.

[@spacecanuk8316]

I always enjoyed Dark Crusade and Retribution. But as a chronic guard player for IRL 40k, I'd always end up going back to CoH. :P

[@Azoth86730]

I just want the next 40k RTS game to have all the tabletop armies represented in some way or another by the end of it tbh (no matter the edition), what I love about 40k has always been the sheer number of possible armies to your liking, be it lore, playstyle, aesthetics or just the vibe overall. I'd buy as many DLCs as I can, I love mastering each army, it simply increases the longevity of the game and thousands of hours with fond memories in the end xD -Imperium --Adeptus Astartes (Space Marines) ---Chapters ----Blood Angels -----Flesh Tearers -----Lamenters -----Death Company ----Space Wolves -----13th Company ----Dark Angels -----Ravenwing -----Deathwing ----Imperial Fists -----Crimson Fists ----Black Templars ----Salamanders ----White Scars -----Mantis Warriors ----Iron Hands -----Clan Raukaan ----Ultramarines -----Howling Griffons -----Emperor's Spears ----Raven Guard -----Raptors ----Red Scorpions ----Minotaurs ----Carcharodons ----Marines Errant ----Exorcists ----Executioners ----Blood Ravens ----Black Dragons --Astra Militarum (Imperial Guard) ---Guard Regiments ----Cadian Shock Troops ----Catachan Jungle Fighters ----Armageddon Steel Legion ----Tallarn Desert Raiders ----Death Korps of Krieg ----Elysian Drop Troops ----Vostroyan Firstborn ----Valhallan Ice Warriors ----Mordian Iron Guard ----Tanith First and Only ----Praetorian Guard ----Attilan Rough Riders ---Militarum Tempestus (Stormtroopers - Departmento Munitorum) ----Psian Jakals ----Thetoid Eagles ----Lambdan Lions ----Iotan Dragons ----Kappic Eagles ----Iotan Gorgonnes ---Armoured Company ---Abhuman Auxilia ---Penal Legions ---Astra Telepathica --Adepta Sororitas (Sisters of Battle) ---Orders Militiant ----Our Martyred Lady ----Ebon Chalice ----Bloody Rose ----Argent Shroud ----Sacred Rose ----Valorous Heart ---Frateris Militia ---Ministorum Auxilia ---Ordo Hereticus (Witch Hunters - Inquisition) ---Adeptus Arbites ---Officio Assassinorum --Adeptus Mechanicus ---Forge Worlds -----Mechanicus Defence Cohort ----Mars ----Lucius ----Ryza ----Metalica ----Agripinaa ----Graia ----Stygies VIII ---Cult Mechanicus ---Legiones Skitarii ----Skitarii Veteran Cohort ---Legio Cybernetica ---Centurio Ordinatus ---Auxilia Myrmidon ---Ordo Reductor --Adeptus Custodes ---Shield Hosts ----Aquilian Shield ----Dread Host ----Emissaries Imperatus ----Shadowkeepers ----Solar Watch ---Sisters of Silence ----Vigils and Cadres --Grey Knights ---Brotherhoods ----Rapiers ----Swordbearers ----Wardmakers ----Preservers ----Exactors ----Silver Blades ----Prescient Brethren ----Blades of Victory ---Ordo Malleus (Daemonhunters - Inquisition) ---Officio Assassinorum --Deathwatch ---Watch Fortresses ----Torchbearers Crusade Force ----Kill Team Strike Force ---Ordo Xenos (Alien Hunters - Inquisition) ---Officio Assassinorum --Astra Cartographica (Rogue Traders) ---Rogue Trader Houses ----Elucidian Starstriders --Questor Imperialis (Imperial Knights) ---Households ----Cadmus ----Griffith ----Hawkshroud ----Mortan ----Terryn ----Raven ----Krast ----Taranis ----Vulker ---Freeblade Lances --Navis Imperialis (Imperial Navy) ---Battlefleets ---Aeronautica Imperialis --Adeptus Titanicus (Titan Legions) ---Legions ----Collegia Titanica -----Secutarii ---Ordo Sinister --Inquisition ---Ordo Malleus (Daemonhunters) ---Ordo Hereticus (Witch Hunters) ---Ordo Xenos (Alien Hunters) ---Ordo Minoris ----Ordo Chronos ----Ordo Sicarius ----Ordo Sepulturum ----Ordo Machinum ----Ordo Astartes ----Ordo Militarum --Legion of the Damned --Adeptus Arbites -Chaos --Chaos Space Marines ---Traitor Legions ----Iron Warriors ----Night Lords ----Word Bearers ----Black Legion ----Alpha Legion ---Renegade Chapters ----Purge ----Brazen Beasts ----Flawless Host ----Scourged ----Crimson Slaughter ---Daemonkin --Thousand Sons ---Great Cults ----Time ----Duplicity ----Mutation ----Magic ----Manipulation ----Prophecy ----Scheming ----Change ----Knowledge --Death Guard ---Plague Companies ----Harbingers -----Terminus Est Assault Force ----Mortarion's Anvil ----Poxmongers ----Wretched ----Mortarion's Chosen Sons ----Ferrymen ----Inexorable ---Gellerpox Infected --World Eaters --Emperor's Children --Chaos Daemons ---Undivided ----Forge of Souls ---Khorne ---Slaanesh ---Nurgle ---Tzeentch --Chaos Knights ---Dread Households ----Herpetrax ----Khomentis ----Khymere ----Lucaris ----Vextrix --Lost and the Damned (Renegades & Heretics) ---Chaos Cults ---Renegade Guard ---Mutant Hordes ----Gellerpox Infected ---Dark Mechanicus ---Rogue Psyker Covens ---Renegade Abhumans ---Xenos Mercenaries ---Desperados --Disciples of Be'lakor --Fallen Angels --Red Corsairs --Creations of Bile (Agents of Bile) --Chaos Titan Legions ---Legions -Aeldari --Asuryani (Craftworld Eldar) ---Craftworlds ----Ulthwe -----Ulthwe Strike Force ----Iyanden -----Ghost Warriors ----Alaitoc -----Starstriders ----Saim-Hann -----Wild Host ----Biel-Tann -----Swordwind --Drukhari (Dark Eldar) ---Kabals ----Black Heart ----Poisoned Tongue ----Flayed Skull ----Obsidian Rose ---Wych Cults ----Strife ----Red Grief ----Cursed Blade ---Haemonculus Covens ----Prophets of Flesh ----Coven of Twelve ----Dark Creed --Rillietann (Harlequins) ---Masques ----Midnight Sorrow ----Dreaming Shadow ----Frozen Stars ----Soaring Spite ----Veiled Path ----Silent Shroud ----Reaper's Mirth --Anhrathe (Eldar Corsairs) ---Coteries ----Sunblitz Brotherhood ----Void Dragons ----Sky Raiders --Ynnari -Greenskins --Great Clans ---Bad Moons ---Evil Sunz ---Deathskulls ---Goffs ---Snakebites ---Blood Axes --Freebooterz --Feral Orks (Beast Snaggas) --Kult of Speed (Speed Freeks) --Rebel Grots -Tyranids --Tyranids ---Hivefleets and Splinterfleets ----Leviathan ----Kraken ----Gorgon ----Behemoth ----Hydra ----Kronos ----Jormungandr ---Seeding Swarms --Genestealer Cults ---Cults ----Four Armed Emperor ----Bladed Cog ----Pauper Princes ----Twisted Helix ----Rusted Claw ----Hivecult --Zoats -T'au --T'au Empire ---Septs ----T'au ----Vior'la ----Dal'yth ----Bork'an ----Sa'cea --Farsight Enclaves --T'au Auxiliaries -Necrons --Dynasties ---Mephrit ---Nephrekh ---Sautekh ---Novokh ---Szarekhan ---Nihilakh --Destroyer Cults -Kroot Mercenaries --Kindred -Zoats -Enslaver Plague

[@Azoth86730]

@@moth821 lol

[@igorokinamujika2073]

You could be interested in Battlefleet Gothic Armada II. Its just space battles, but as far as I know, all the navies of the the tabletop Battlefleet Gothic and its expansion Armada are present: -Imperial Navy -Adeptus Astartes -Adeptus Mechanicus -Aeldari Craftworld -Aeldari Corsairs -Drukhari -Tau Merchant Fleet (with Kroot, Nicassar and Demiurg auxiliaries) -Tau Protector Fleet (with Kroot, Nicassar and Demiurg auxiliaries) -Chaos -Orks -Necrons -Tyranids

[@sheepfly]

That will never happen.

[@Azoth86730]

@@igorokinamujika2073 I love BFG:A2, thx ^^

[@ElGreco15]

Between Sega and GW all I saw was $1000 in DLC

[@pagusonease3650]

There are parallels between the Blood Ravens story in DoW II and the Tyranic Wars of the Ultramarines...Magpies indeed.

[@Watchyourselvez]

A bit late to the party, both on this video and to 40k. Bought this game many years ago and didn't like it, even as a CoH veteran. Now that I am on the fifth book in the Horus Heresy saga I cannot stop playing this game. Feels weird to be this hyped about a 2009 game.

[@antoniokralj842]

It makes perfect sense since from 2012 rts got worse by the year, these days if you get one good game that has good strategy gameplay, and is not broken at release date, you are lucky!

[@ThunderKat]

We need a new DoW1 with improve graphics, sounds and even the option to have small drops from random encounters... This promotes defending your base just to get your hero stronger.