Dawntrail is Too Hard?? Reading Forums Feedback

[@hortehighwind8651]

People arent used to not clearing in one go. They need to get used to failing more.

[@kingramennoodle]

Hydaelyn coming back from oblivion going "what part of living is to suffer did you not understand?"

[@sunshies5568]

Very much true! Trial and error has ever been the way humans learned things, and not always it has to be pleasing.

[@MiraiKishi]

I don't think anyone has a problem with failing more. But what if someone just actually cannot get through the content? If even one person can't get through it all, even with being properly geared, what's to incentivize them to keep on subbing to the game? I get that the amount of people that this will effect is an EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY small fraction of the audience... But for a game that touts "accessibility" as much as FFXIV does, even losing one player to the difficulty filter is really disheartening.

[@Dastan117]

@@MiraiKishi You don't have to keep subbing to the game or even continue playing. What I will say is this; Unless you have boosted past everything, you have already gone through 90 levels of content that the game has to offer. Assuming you have attempted most of that content, the things you see in Dawntrail aren't nearly as hard as people are making them out to be. What's happening is these players don't understand what is happening and failing to actually try to make sense of something. In casual content, there is always a tell beforehand that lets you know what is happening. At this level where we are at, you should understand this already. There are things to look for other than just "Orange marks on the ground". The boss is literally telling you what they are about to do. It's a matter of attention span is what it is. IF you pay attention to the things that are happening, you will eventually figure out what and where you need to be to avoid something.

[@EternalBladeX]

@@MiraiKishi Just feel like the EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY small fraction of the player base should not be the focus of content balancing if it screws over a HUGE majority of the rest of us. They can unsub if they feel like the game is too hard, no one is forcing them to play, but for them to force us to abide to their standards is not how things work. Just seems like these people have a stick up their ass and refuse to remove it because they think its right. Also, this is lvl 100 content we are talking about. These people had AMPLE amount of time to get adjusted to the difficulty increase and if these players refuse to learn/adapt, that is 100% on them.

[@DonaldTurner]

I am NOT a savage / EXT player. too old. VERY casual. Just the same, I tanked all of it, blind. died, plenty. HAD A BLAST. What a great Expansion for combat content. Wife and I love it.

[@Elyakel]

Thanks for that comment As an hardcore player i'm happy to see the casuals have a blast too

[@feelyourlines]

hell yeah brother keep doing your thing and having fun!!

[@JJMomoida]

Man, I've seen similar comments, and I feel like this level of difficulty is JUST RIGHT for the casual player that wants a BIT OF FRICTION in their experience. Here's hoping they manage to strike that balance going forward. Cheers to you and your wife!

[@shiversky]

that's the spirit!🫡

[@enji1633]

Fear of failure makes people overreact with the content difficulty. Its brand new content, its fine to wipe and learn mechanics.

[@celebrian995]

I also don't do savage due to being 65 with poor eyesight and arthritic hands, and that being said, I expect to die a lot when first seeing a raid. The Honeybee fight was especially tough the first time (I was on the floor quite a bit along with everybody else), we decided to stop for the evening and took a break, queued up the next day, and failed only once. It's a learning curve and I know that. Frustrating yes, but once you get it it is a lot of fun. If I can do it then you can do it. Things shouldn't be handed to you, a little work makes it all the more satisfying.

[@av2279]

What a wholesome comment, and couldn't agree more.

[@RealRaslu]

Legend.

[@KingKikikoi]

Well I am a healer who’s done all ultimates and I was on the floor most of the fight the first time I did it. ITS ABSOLUTELY OKAY. you get up and try again! ❤

[@zeelyweely1590]

What an amazing comment! ❤

[@kamiddani]

I'm 23, doing savage and ultimate, and players like you are what make doing normal content fun. we're all just here to have a good time, and we're so glad to have you!!

[@MenrvaS]

Its alien to me to see players that can forgive themselves but not others when making mistakes.

[@KattReen]

Yeah... I had a normal raid run like that. A person left after wipe two because he got angry me and the other healer needed some time to process the mechanics. It was on patch day lol. I don't usually tell people to uninstall the game, but I think there are some people who would benefit from a break.

[@GTaichou]

I wonder if they're used to failing and being carried, so they expect it of themselves but not others (using others as a barometer of difficulty instead of themselves) 🤔

[@TopPigg]

There were certainly a few times where we got hit with a "i didn't expect that to be so complex/punishing". the insta-kill and "grand cross" mechanics for the final MSQ boss being a good example. That being said, the number of times i've seen wipes to normal Seat of Sacrifice, Hades, etc. if you've made it to the end of Dawntrail without a story skip, you are accustomed to the end game normals not pulling their punches and having to do it *gasp* twice, maybe three times? you're level 100, you can have 1 or two harder fights in an expansion so people don't fall asleep on re-clears

[@kiskili9577]

SoS normal I have a Macro that outright says "IF you fail the ATE we all fail the ATE." I can't even count on that Normal mode where we wiped because one person thought they could corpse pass it.

[@klabence]

If anything, I was surprised, when we did it first try. We obviously did use a healer lb3.

[@aoisora1445]

We were all randos in that MSQ raid, I just barely made the LB3 Heal in time, then after the LB3 everyone understood the mechanics and we pushed through to the end...

[@phenik403]

New mechanics are not bad, it's refreshing. Even good players get wiped to things they haven't seen before.

[@thehermitwizard]

I like to think I'm a reasonably competent phys ranged/Tank player, usually stick to EX but dip into Savage, and I got my ass handed to me on all but one raid. It's a nice change of pace from not sleepwalking through the fights, tbh.

[@UmbraWeiss]

There is almost no new mechanic... It's just a lot of reused stuff with new animations that confuse people. I wiped only because seeing the animation I didn't know what to expect.. but there are bosses where you know what to expect just looking at them...

[@GGradz]

Exactly

[@prod7906]

LOL its not even that hard. THe fights are still brain dead simple.

[@kargion]

Only thing I had a group wipe on first time through was the raids but it took one wipe then we cleared it because at least 50% of the group was like "I got it now" and the other half got hit by everything still lol

[@Malix2238]

Its too hard because you can actually wipe, reminds me why i do not take forum posters seriously. Wiping should always be a possibility as well as dying. Imagine actually playing the game.

[@petrus9067]

Like i really don't understand the notion that it should be unacceptable for people to die in normal raids, and if that's happening too much it's because the content got too hard "pls fix"?? It actually creates more atrition, you get a bit of a harder moment to keep everyone doing mechs and dps while ressing people etc. Raise exists for a reason!! Swifcast cooldwon was reduced by like 33% for god's sake.

[@matthiasvancauteren3107]

Exactly! There is no joy in victory if there is no risk of defeat.

[@dmlanse]

Exactly. Like FFS who cares if you die or if you wipe. Learn and go again. like this dude sounds like he just wants to run in and watch a video rather then actually play the game. Bro should go back to wow, and play lfr if he wants a popcorn raid.

[@veambeam]

​@@matthiasvancauteren3107 love that quote omg let me steal that

[@Luxayt_]

Imagine actually playing any game. I bet these people just quit after failing even once in anything. It’s just low mentality.

[@roronoa1243]

I'm usually a mostly casual content player, but getting the boss of M4 down to 0.3% as a tank with me and my co-tank both popping our invulns to cheese her soft enrage while everybody else died around us to clear the pull is literally the most fun I've ever had in this game. No wonder people say to never go on the forums.

[@Naoto-kun1085]

Yeah, no matter what happens, people on the forums just complain. "The game is too hard", "the game is too easy", "jobs need to be buffed", "jobs need to be nerfed"

[@Saihamaru]

tbh the last few minutes of M4 felt cheap to me but when the story progress and we know the reason why, it suddenly feel more emotional :') not getting the piece i want after 4 runs and forced to replay it again and again, now i'm looking forward to that part why can't the savage come faster?

[@saltwatersealion8570]

I’m happy for you, that dopamine rush is part of why harder content can be so fun.

[@zeerodown1887]

Is that thing a soft enrage? I thought it was just a visual effect….

[@VellusTerennia]

@@zeerodown1887 She keeps repeating the attack until she dies, so its a soft enrage because its just constant partywide damage.

[@arifen4]

My 1st M3 experience ended in a MT requesting we abandon the duty as my co-healer would spam medica 3 and eat every single aoe. Both casters would often die and we were unable to progress the fight as not enough players were alive for a group stack. The MT literally said that is not fair on me to solo heal and mitigate. The other healer was trying to defend themselves but also trying to tell us how to do the mechanics they were dying to themselves.

[@saraphuwu]

That's so wild. Even so, it's literally a normal, even if one healer does not heal at all it should still be sorta easy. But if half your team is dead constantly then even two healers spam healing isnt gonna be enough for stack mechanics lol

[@adakahless]

I feel your pain when I did my first run on the last boss in DT. I felt like I was the only sage (out of the 2 of us) that was rezzing and healing. I had to LB3 just to get people back up and had to wait for the other sage to be able to rez me after dying to a mechanic trying to get another person up again. The second run was a bit smoother but we still wiped once because of some newbies and people falling off the dais. I raised both tanks countless times but they took it well. XD

[@Gee-xb7rt]

i'm really not blaming healers, but all my runs healers are having a hard time keeping up, and as a healer i think you know how much healing you can do when you are when you are koed. its kind of funny cause in old content i still get the classic i'm at 1/8 health, have a regen, and that just doesn't cut it. I should also emphasize now its at its hardest, people have minimal gear, by 7.1 all this is going to be resolved.

[@deadmann320]

Sadly, too many WHM got through on that mentality for endwalker and it shows. Ive mained ast, whm, and sch for different raid tiers and honestly it really comes down to knowing your buttons and how to react. DPS have to track timers for dps burst, tanks have dmg reduction, healers now have to keep track of what heals they can burst and when they need to use medica or the rarely used cure 3 for stacks

[@lokifrostpaw2976]

I have similar experience. On A9N 😅

[@williamknudson8414]

Speaking personally, the "mechanic" that gives me nightmares is the thing where the boss lays down like 5 different patterns and I have to remember the order everything resolves or else I'm eating a lot of vulns and dying. Call it a variation on the Eden birds, where you have to keep track of a lot of movements at once to figure out the safe spots.

[@maerto]

It's usually not so difficult you only need to remember when the side repeats otherwise it swaps each time.

[@NabsterHax]

The trick to these mechanics is that you actually aren't expected to remember 5 different patterns. There's almost always a way to make the mechanic way, way simpler than it looks. For example, it doesn't matter how many chained AOEs there are if one spot is 100% safe for the whole thing. If you're ever overwhelmed trying to mentally envisage how the entire mechanic will resolve, I guarantee it's because you're not supposed to. The goal is to figure out what information is most relevant and ignore the noise. (Minor spoilers for Ex2 mechanics as an example: During the boss's vollok/sync attack, you have to dodge a half room cleave while also dodging floor AOEs indicated by the glowing swords on two separate platforms. If you try to work out where all the AOEs are going, you will find this mechanic nigh on impossible to work out in time. The trick is to not even try to work out the pattern of where all the AOEs are going but to use one of the non-glowing swords to work out a single safe spot).

[@kamiddani]

if you're talking about the first normal raid where the boss is breaking the platform, i struggle with the same! remembering what the heck was hit in order is really hard for me, but there'a a trick to that one. if you go all the way to the right wall, one of the two middle platforms will ALWAYS be totally safe. i had to do the fight 4 times to get the drop i wanted, and it always worked. most mechanics like that, i have to find some kind of "cheese strat" to deal with it. it makes it kind of fun to reframe the puzzle as "where's the common safe spot" instead of eating shit to the memory game every time.

[@MissLilianae]

I feel like you're referencing the floor mechanic from R1? Personally what I did on my first run: Pick a section of floor and focus on seeing when and how many times it gets hit. If it's not first up, stand there. Check adjacent spots to make sure they're still safe when your first spot gets hit, then wait until one of your "safe" spots get hits the first time, move there. Wait for your first spot to get hit, move back. In that particular case you can't have a "safe" spot get hit twice, but the attacks come out so slowly you can adjust to see which tiles weren't even targeted halfway through the mechanic.

[@InsanityReborn]

@@NabsterHax Vollok was piss easy tbh. Now, Blade Warp on the other hand.. THAT breaks the brain a bit. Especially on AST where it happens deadass in the middle of my 2-minute...

[@Noct_Snow]

Endwalker being so unbelievably easily has ruined the casual player base

[@barisaxman2]

I think the casual playerbase is split. I am an uber casual, never tried extremes/savages etc and I love the increase in difficulty in DT. I hope the people writing these posts are the minority in the casual player base.

[@MasterOssy]

..............no, it hasn't. It created a filter in the casual base on who is good at the game or who isn't good at it. It's even at the point where the casuals are getting pissed off as the vocal minority of the casual base, ruining the experience overall. It's why ppl didn't like how endwalker came to be. How can you get better at the game if the game is holding your hand?

[@Cherryblossoms110]

except it wasn't? See: Tower of Zot, Hydaelyn, Meteion, most of the trials honestly I also frequently have DPS failing mechanics in Ktisis Hyperboreia They're just bitching cos it's new

[@zordiark9673]

@@MasterOssy I remember the first time i tanked the lvl 95 Dungeon and thought "holy Sh*t, this mobs hits like trucks". But i never got to a point at which i would say that DT is hard. Its just a little bit more difficult (which i anticipated when i think back to the spike in difficulty the moment you reach Barbariccia in the msq)

[@Rigele100]

@@Cherryblossoms110 what the fuck, failing dps mechanics in a dungeon? xD holy bad macaronis

[@Tessa_Ru]

Tbh i think ff14 has managed to draw a lot of people who dont actually like video games, and are just here to be social and post screenshots on twitter/discord/whatever. Which is fine, do what you want. But i just dont think we should be changing the gameplay to where it's not even fun anymore for everyone else just to appease them.

[@Yokai_Yuri]

The problem is that this is how you and many others feel as a long time fans of the series, yet you forget FF14 IS a business and these casual playerd, whether you like ir or not, are the ones who contribute heavily to keep the game afloat. (Not that we don't. We do as well, but they are posdibly, the majority. Just look how the housing community had the devs grabbed by the balls. Meanwhile the more non-casual audience ask for something and we get it god knows how)

[@AdellRedwinters]

I feel like, maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like the people that are just playing to hang out are not the same sort of people that log into the official forum and being upset that the content is too hard.

[@libertylizard_]

You're right, they are actually the majority. Which was calculated a good ways ago when addressing something unrelated (the amount of mod users/shaders and those producing 3rd party content). I am terrible at the maths but they were able to reasonably extrapolate the amount of people using and downloading, with enough of those using the various launchers to hazard a guess (its in the hundreds of thousands, not 'a minority'. I don't like casuals - those that don't care about gameplay in my case - because they have rendered the game braindead. I find it insulting as a long term MMO player. That said, that is the reality and design decisions will continue to reflect that, more so in Japan where you all should know that mobile and console-casual demographics have vastly dominated. Hard to believe but they actually like that '1-button' dps healer rotation because they hate 'stress' in games. I.e - ANY form of challenge or things that might cause disagreement. It's as pathetic as it sounds. Don't expect improvement. They are a large chunk of subs. It's why they didn't ban mods, despite it making the world firsts into an optical PR embarrassment in the past.

[@bonsaibnuuy]

@@miqotesoulia8620 ...youre kidding right

[@Maple_Extract]

Give them a story mode without that randomly spits out loot per week via Mail Moogle care packages. Dont change gameplay for people who dont want gameplay.

[@Chihiro-Kikuchi]

People bitched it was too easy now its too hard? I like the scaling its done this expansion

[@Xport9]

What makes it even more comical, is that we are at a point that content needs to be hard, since we are in level 100s! These vocal minorities of people complaining is just nonsense if you ask me. You've had YEARS of experiencing playing this game, now you want the difficulty to be toned down? That's a YIKES in the FFXIV's community department. They just can't make their mind up.

[@axestump3590]

That's how customer complain usually like. Customer who have no problem aren't going to voice their concern.

[@Chihiro-Kikuchi]

@@Xport9endwalker was easy. Boringly easy, the difficulty spike even for me (hardcore casual) is honestly a *WELCOME* change.

[@cashnelson2306]

this comment is always so dumb lol. different people have different, often contradictory, takes in a community of millions? crazy bro

[@Chihiro-Kikuchi]

⁠@@cashnelson2306yeah and those people need to stop expecting the game difficulty to not increase. Just because you struggle at it DOESNT mean that those that struggle are the majority, infact i’d say they were the minority who want to pretend they speak for the millions

[@Varizen87]

I like to bring the original intended meaning of “Git Gud” from the Souls community with me. It’s all about self improvement and not being toxic to someone else. My play style is about helping everyone succeed and not to stand above everyone else. That’s part of why I like RDM. It’s the control over the fight while helping other people stay in the fight. I also like to be a summon in Elden Ring to help people get through bosses. But I get better as a player by repeating a difficult struggle. Even one you’ve beaten has more to teach you on repeat attempts.

[@thyrussendria8198]

Fellow RDM main here, one reason i play the job, aside from the fast paced caster plays, is that i can act as a safety line for my group bx rezzing the tank or healer when we are in a tight spot. I often thought about macroing verraise with a message like "Get back up, we can still win this!"

[@edhillman7525]

I think they should do a "Very Easy" option on MSQ required instances if you are using Trust/DS, like they do in solo duties if you die. If you die a bunch of times, (say 3) then the trusts will res you as well, so that people who aren't good, or who are impaired have a way of getting through MSQ required content relatively quickly. Aside from that then no, the new difficulty is *much much* better, if you get challenged and overcome the challenge then you improve as a player and the satisfaction of beating things you find difficult is the reason *many* people play games at all.

[@jegudielyusha2866]

honestly, the red text in front of you is such a godsend. usually, warnings like that are in the text box and let's be honest here - while you're in the heat of battle (especially if you're not familiar with the fight), who will be looking at the text box? nobody that's who. I greatly appreciate the red text box in my face to tell me stuff is about to happen.

[@Jake38nine]

I got annoyed with it because I'm bad at paying attention to multiple things all at once and another thing is trying to get my attention, no thanks. I'll learn from trial and error.

[@irisheartt]

The Absolute Authority mechanic is the closest thing to an EX mechanic we've had in normal, but it actually fills up your LB bar after it's done, so as long as one of your healers survives, you can just use healer LB3

[@ZeronesZG]

It is also genius in terms of game design, since the floor aoes essentially "herd" you to where you need to stand. Limiting the play arena ensures that players stack together, stop moving as the acceleration bomb goes off and look away from the middle. It is still possible to fail it obviously, but it is much easier than it seems. Which makes it both feel incredibly tense and fulfilling when you do it. It feels like a EX or early savage mechanic in presentation, without the coordination such mechanics usually requires. Absolutely 100% better than the boss just doing a flashy animation and a required LB3.

[@Glacevelyn]

this is used a ton throughout the normal raids too, usually Healer LB generates shortly after the most difficult mechanics like the second knockback meteors on Brute Bomber

[@thyrussendria8198]

Hell, it doesnt even have to be a healer. If a SMN or RDM survive, they can just swiftcast rez a healer, making it even less threatening

[@TheFrantic5]

Not to brag, but I just did this boss for the first time, and Absolute Authority was the one place I *didn't* die at. That mechanic was telegraphed well.

[@Jake38nine]

What boss is that?

[@TheIceLurker]

It’s not too hard. Too hard would be being forced to disband because they could not clear the run. It’s just a little challenging and there’s a possibility to die once or twice that’s it. There was harder shit in ARR, do people not remember the old Aurum Vale? Stone vigil? Cutters Edge with the insta kill bees? That was normal content, harder than any normal stuff in DT. People need to calm down, it’s fine to die in dungeons.

[@Cherryblossoms110]

Honestly you'd be surprised at how terrible some people are at the game. I had to abandon a run of Sohm Al (lv53 HW dungeon) because neither the DPS nor the tank were intelligent enough to switch targets to the prison that kept killing me (the healer).

[@angealsbustersword2]

​@Cherryblossoms110 I feel that in my bones. I play all 3, healer, dps, and tank. This was before the healer strike. There was one time on the same dungeon where the dps kept dying (I was tanking), and the healer neither healed nor rez them, yet insisted they did. I was watching them, not once did they heal or raise them. The dps wound up leaving and we had to search for replacements. That was a long 45-minute dungeon. We tried being nice to them and help them, but they were a piece of work.

[@devxved]

Not to call people out, but i was talking in my FC chat about how players dont even know what a raid buff is or how to use them properly. And i had two fc members immediately did not understand what it was. I had to explain to them what it was, and i thought they were joking and they were not. Both are level 100. They thought they just pressed it whenever they wanted even 30 seconds into a fight, at just andom times, and didn't know the party gets the buff too.

[@JathraDH]

@@devxved Well that's because it doesn't matter outside higher end content. Why would they need to learn it? The game doesn't teach you anything in the MSQ, can't force people to actually learn to play, come on now that's way too difficult.

[@Fade2BlackSS]

I play all 3 roles as well. Primarily Tank and Healer. I was doing a lv90 dungeon some weeks ago and ran into a lv90 tank that refused to pull multiple packs and got mad when we started running ahead. They then say something along the lines of I'm not comfortable pulling big. We're all like dude, it's an endgame dungeon. You're on the max level, you should be able to play your role well at this point. People like that I have no remorse for. With DT though, something to keep in mind is that there are A LOT of newcomers to the game. Most have probably been using trusts. Older content has been significantly dumbed down from what it used to be. And new expansions are always harder on first release.

[@imissimeem]

....how do you fail a dungeon while playing with a Trust? It might take a little longer, but trust members are psychic when it comes to mechanics, and pre-position for them so early, it makes it super easy to just follow the leader and never get hit by a missable mechanic.

[@holmesholmes.8784]

they made trust more convincing now, not all of them will do mechanic perfectly everytime, its like seeing in action cutscenes

[@-DeScruff]

It can happen with 'spread out' mechanics, as the AI doesn't react to the player's position. I recall Uranger got me killed in Alzadaal's Legacy on the second boss. A normal player wouldn't decide to stand right on top of a BLM in their leylines when the both of you have targeted AoEs... But Uranger....

[@Jake38nine]

I have a mind of my own and don't pay attention to the psychic NPCs. I'm stubborn and want to learn it on my own and my reaction time ain't always great either. Plus, I focus heavily on my rotation. Don't have the greatest eyesight either to see everything going on all at once. I have to remind myself to look elsewhere and then it has to become a habit. Things start becoming a habit after at least 7 times of doing it.

[@bluesrike]

I'll admit that I have died to Acian Prime even with Trusts.

[@dogboy15213]

Just going to state the obvious. High level content SHOULD be challenging.

[@woodyblock]

If they tone down the challenge in any way I’m done playing this game. This is the first time sense ARR I have felt engaged in expert. I cannot go back.

[@drchocolatetv]

Preach, I don't fall asleep in expert anymore if I don't pay attention I can actually die Dungeon bosses are finally more risky than the trash pulls

[@ngwoo]

Yup, I've done every expert dungeon at least five times so far and I'm still having fun with them. I didn't have fun with any of the Endwalker dungeons beyond the FIRST time.

[@coffeebuticed]

As much as I may hate the first Strayborough boss, I cannot say it is not infinitely more engaging than any dungeon boss in EW where i am falling asleep instead of cursing at getting noggin'd

[@mr.gamingz]

Why did you not quit in endwalker then?

[@drewchk5254]

@@mr.gamingzwhat part of “cannot go back” don’t you get?

[@elduardo2496]

The normal fights are not too hard, they're very well designed this time around. If SE touches them at all, they should make them harder lol

[@donnyyasu2764]

It was hard at first, but it gets easier with repetition.

[@cashnelson2306]

this is also known as "how literally everything works"

[@donnyyasu2764]

@@cashnelson2306 Yet people need to be reminded time to time

[@kurousagi1239]

Just like what Hydaelyn says, “Hear, feel, think.” You HEAR (see) the mechanic for the first time, you FEEL discourage because failing but that’s only one way to progress, next you THINK how to solve the mechanic the best you can and as efficient as it be, and there you go.

[@MrGreengoblin1967]

​@@kurousagi1239 fucking nerd!!!! I love it. Dont change my fellow gamer.

[@Saihamaru]

@@kurousagi1239 but what kids these days do is HEAR other people's opinion in internet without experiencing it themselves FEEL like the opinion is their own THINK everybody else should follow the same opinion as them

[@Silvershadowfire]

I guess I'm a 'hardcore casual' - I play nearly every day but don't do savage/ext content (though those wings might get me dabbling my toes into ext for the first time) and I thought that this was tuned pretty well. Sure there were a lot of deaths and a couple wipes, but its new content. I tend to judge difficulty on both the ability to read the mechanics - how clear are the tells - and the ability to execute the counters, and I would say overall the raids were about 8/10. I still don't entirely understand that heart mechanic on Honeybee, and the third guy goes too far back on his second lariant, making it very hard to swing around, see where he's shooting and then run, but then I've only done it a couple times. I remember when P12 came out thinking I was never going to get the timing on one mechanic, but practise does make perfect. I think that part of the problem is also that before Dawntrail dropped even the most casual player could be well geared by the end of the expansion, and then you get into Dawntrail and it's like running everything on min Ilvl because that's all we've got.

[@sweetchaos613]

As a person with ADHD I sometimes have issues with too much sensory stimulation. I have spell effects turned off. I have to teach myself to watch the boss instead of the ground. My ADHD brain has issues but I love this game. I had to stop healing as I would get too zoned in on healing. Still trying to find my favorite class to enjoy.

[@NabsterHax]

A large amount of FF14's mechanical difficulty, even (or especially) in harder content, is about filtering the deliberate information overload the game gives you. There are so many mechanics that are only difficult because it feels like you don't have enough time to process all the information, but the trick is to figure out how to ignore 90% of it and focus on the 10% that gives you a quick solution.

[@celestielsigh]

As a human being, I turned off party spell effects. They are super extra and you don't need them

[@caleb4717]

I feel you. Also have ADHD and EX2's Projection of Triumph has been a real stumbling block for me simply because there are excessive amounts of visual information on the screen. Only fight in a long time I've actually had a complaint about, but it's not about the mechanic, it's about the completely unnecessary flashing, pulsing, mosaic "chains" binding the waves together and surrounding the swords. Wish there was an option to turn those off like you can turn off party spell effects. Accessibility isn't just about deaf, blind, or crippled folks.

[@Tessa_Ru]

@sweetchaos613 may I suggest a tank? I love WAR, it's fun and not too hard, and so long as you know your cooldowns, messing up and eating a vulnerability or 2 isn't going to hurt you like it will a dps or healer.

[@warghoul570]

I have a similar problem. My ADD often gives me tunnel vision in the middle of a boss fight when there’s too much going on. I get too focused on hitting it and trying to work fast that I miss tells.

[@SamthePlayer]

I saw people abandoning a normal raid today after a wipe. Like holy shit. These people are mental. If there is no challenge it aint no game worth playing

[@TheStrandrew]

They're too used to f2p mmos' where the only challenge is "am I doing enough damage?"

[@TumblingD1C3]

I had it on day one of the new raids.... We only wiped twice and no one said a word.... Some of these people really have no patience.

[@shakeweller]

Sims and Animal Crossing are top selling games. FFXIV has lots of twitter art/gpose people who now realize that this game is more than looking cute

[@fredxu99]

​@@shakeweller don't forget the mountain of illegal character mods they have installed. Them twitter pics ain't natty that's for sure.

[@libertylizard_]

F2P is plenty hard in raiding for the price point. Try Lost Ark. It's detailed enough all things considered. Perhaps leave the I-pay-a-sub! bigotry at the door. It means nothing in 2024.

[@ngwoo]

I said this in reply to another video on this same thing but the increased challenge of normal mode dungeons and trials is why I finally felt confident enough to try a current extreme for the first time. That first EX1 clear will be an unforgettable videogame moment for me, and I would have never had it if the content was all as braindead as the Endwalker MSQ stuff. I think the design philosophy this time was to give all players that feeling of EX prog, to let everyone of all skill levels have the satisfaction of solving a puzzle. If that's their goal I love it and they absolutely succeeded. The people complaining are the ones who don't want those puzzles to exist at all, and that's extremely damaging to the design of the game if they're listened to.

[@chump5876]

I have just really enjoyed that nearly every mechanic in raid is a repeat of something from the dungeons just scaled up a bit.

[@hioute]

that's exactly how I feel, I have yet to actually attempt an EX clear myself but the difficulty of this content is genuinely making me feel like I'm more capable than I previously thought. I'm much more likely to try harder stuff now. I'm casual af but LOVE all the Dawntrail combat so far!

[@ngwoo]

@@hioute It's not an overstatement to say that that first EX1 clear at like 12:50 in the morning was the most fun I've ever had with the game. It was also the first current EX clear for 4 or 5 of the other party members, and we had so much fun that we went on to clear it a handful more times. Someone even got the mount on the second clear, the hype was crazy.

[@Lyu-Phy]

Try savage, or hell even ultimate! You would be surprised how accessible it actually is! The key factor is the mindset to improve and clear up mistakes, that's all that matters. I would still go into the new savage tier first to dip your toes in, as it's a more condensed experience preparing you for ultimate. But that's great to hear, Dawntrails difficulty increase truly shines!

[@RTuga02]

@@ngwoo That's great to hear! I'm glad you're testing yourself at harder content. It's a good show of how DT is doing good job at difficulty progression in content, finally. Is a good step up. It teaches you, prepares you slowly for harder and harder content. I would say test savage this tier. It will be very punishing, but work with the failure, learn and you might end up with some of the highest amounts of fun.

[@Chihiro-Kikuchi]

Btw GREAT point about the selfishness of people only blaming others for failing.

[@arbrawlchamp]

These past few weeks as a WHM have been some of the most fun I've had playing any game ever. Failing, learning, clearing, and then turning around and teaching and encouraging others have been some of the most fufilling experiences.

[@97Fenrir]

Had a super buzzkill healer last night that wouldn't stop telling us how he was carrying the whole time during the bomber broly guy, because we wiped ONCE. In a NORMAL raid. Like who cares if it's not extreme or savage, as long as everyone's giving it an honest attempt.

[@Talcor]

dawntrail is the correction, this has been a fantastic change

[@DacianGradaMusic]

We've come full circle... I heard stories about Alexander and hard mode dungeons lol I'm afraid that they will listens to these minor feedbacks and it's gonna be a worse game for everyone. T_T I hope not, though, the fights have been amazing and some of the most fun I had playing lately. This can only get better with Savage, Alliance, Ultimate and Criterion. To me, weekly lockout content shouldn't be one-shotted that easily on launch, you need to wipe and learn, that's the fun part!

[@Zarren_Redacted]

The "hard mode" dungeons weren't actually difficult, they were just leveling dungeons we were revisiting at whatever the capstone level was for that expansion. So they'd be scaled to the same difficulty that the other "story" dungeon that launched in the same patch.

[@Enclave.]

We haven't come full circle, Dawntrail is still way easier than Heavensward. Heck, we're still a long way from all the pre-nerf ARR stuff. I remember when Amdapoor Keep would filter people before it got nerfed.

[@Naoto-kun1085]

The majority of people are praising the difficulty, so I'm thinking they'll listen to those people!

[@nyrahl593]

@@Enclave. Demon Wall was a legit DPS check.

[@VentusLionheart]

We haven't really come full circle. Newer players just don't realize how much harder the old ARR and HW content was compared to the current content, including DT. Just to give an idea, if you got hit by titan's landslide during the normal trial, you'd just fall off the platform permanently. Healers could not revive you. You'd be out of the fight until they party cleared or wiped. This is on tops of the difficulty that came with playing your job correctly. All jobs were a lot harder to play back then too. So no, we haven't come full circle. We're about 50% of the difficulty of what it used to be before everything became brain dead in the game.

[@Splucus]

fail to do mechanics > learn and have patience ... NO! fail to do mechanics > whiny on the forums ... yes! 🙄🙄🙄

[@stressedoutofexistence663]

Sounds like a WoW player (been in the Wow-sphere for 20 years, they really do stick out in a crowd)

[@Splucus]

@@stressedoutofexistence663 No, I never play WOW before. It’s just the simple way to play the game (fail > learn > try again > success > repeat ) not whiny on the internet to make dev team downgrade the game to match your skill no no that not the way :)

[@sagakun06]

NA people so weak 🤭

[@RTuga02]

@@Splucus think he meant that mentality sounds like a wow player, not you.

[@Splucus]

@@RTuga02 ahh I see sorry English is not my first language 😅

[@user-lk3gn4dn9o]

Casual content up until now is like eating baby food. People be crying when they have to move to harder food and finally chew a little. The difficulty of the content has been refreshing and it's given new life to roulettes.

[@RuffioLostBoy]

I truly want this person to post videos of them doing content. I bet there are a lot of fundamental misplays they are doing and sticking to that is making things way more difficult than they need to be. Things like not being zoomed out enough, or just some small option not enabled or disabled that makes things so much easier. By far one of the biggest barriers I see in the game is that jobs unlock at higher and higher levels without a good way to play from the start like we used to have. I miss being able to learn the base 1-2 punch and then add in a third skill and an OGCD skill and then just get used to that before adding another.

[@katherinejanke7837]

I actually specifically use new game + to learn how to play a new job that I’m picking up. It really helps to play through the lower levels to learn how to play your job.

[@BombDoggy]

On the mechanics resolving quickly, on talking to a few people i know one thing stands out. "the aoe appears and vanishes to quickly, i had no time to get out." after a bit of a lengthier conversation I understand that they are waiting for the ground based huge flash to start moving and not looking at the boss or tells outside of big glowy space bad. So i assume this happens a to others as well

[@nubchaos]

this is VERY common, any mechanic that has a tell that is NOT just a "hey don't stand in this bad area for like 5 seconds" catches people almost every single time. The earlier parts of the game kinda groom the player to just look for "bad glowy space" and not much else, so when the game starts to mix things up by using other tells people just get bopped.

[@BombDoggy]

@nubchaos it's weird, I literally just got caught by one of these on a variant dungeon. 4 dudes spawn facing different directions. I found a spot behind them and got hit and died. The second attempt my brain went, "Huh, what did I miss?" I missed that it was based on which arm they raised and which direction they faced. I didn't blame the game. I stopped and questioned what it was I did not see. It's a thought process I often see lacking. Side note the Variant dungeons are incredibly helpful to learn how to sight read mechanics in a no pressure environment, I always used to look at guides first cause I don't want to drag others down and overly worry about what people may think or say. I can proudly say. I went into the raids 100% blind this time and was amazed at how fast I was analyzing and adjusting. Had a blast, and it completely ruined me blind content is fun AF.

[@KattReen]

@@BombDoggy Aw. I've played with plenty of newbies in variants and imo it only makes things more interesting, as I like playing supportively

[@MMOPC78]

One thing that might stem from this is how the Crystal Tower Radis are done. Thpse are meant to be an introduction to raiding. However, it is not viewed as a learning tool; but, as a farming tool. From what I've seen thus far: a lot pf mechanics and how they act are shared throughout the game even though the name of the mechanic maybe different. Like when a boss disappears and reappears somewhere is introduced in the Crystal Tower. Stone Vigil also introduces a boss disappearing and then putting down an AoE before returning. All in all: far flying through ARR and HW without digesting and "taking in" the mechanics of a fight. True, no one is perfect and mistakes do happen. However and IMHO, if introductions to raiding where payed closer attention to and used as a teaching tool: then later content can feel more approachable.

[@awworrell]

I agree with you on this. The biggest challenge on those raids is gear is so crazy at this point everything is a tank and spank. I imagine if we had to actually do many of the mechanics correctly in raids like the crystal tower, parties would die even more than in current raids. None of it was hard back in the day but it teaches a lot seeing the mechanics over and over again.

[@MegaDarkness5000]

let's be real The Void Ark is the introduction to how Alliance Raids work at this point.

[@LargeToastie]

I think the difficulty of the content is perfect. Dungeons aren't incredibly hard, but make it where you need to be a little more engaged than normal. And the normal raids for Arcadion have a fair amount of difficulty, where learning the mechanics might make it easier for newer players to dip their toes into an EX or maybe other higher end content.

[@mobilereis]

I feel you on people using Disabilities as the go to straw man on making excuses for why things should be easier. We had an incident in VRChat when they added anti cheats to prevent dll injections that people were using to steal accounts.. Huge swaths of people saying it was blocking mods that people used for disability reasons as a way to try and get them to remove the anti cheats. Needless to say, if you went to the modders forum, they had a copy pasta on how to use disabilities as an excuse and what to say in arguments. The mods listed as their "disability mods" had 8 downloads on github. Games SHOULD have disability features, but dont insult disabled people by saying the game should be dumbed down for them.

[@OistyFM]

WoL in trial roulette comes down to one thing. Do they do the LB2 correct

[@Euphamia]

We the people cant be bothered to dodge! in 2 weeks everyone's going to be so board on how easy this content is and there won't be anymore wipes.

[@ultimatelyit]

Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves up again. - Alfred Pennyworth.

[@shintenkai1648]

Alas the younger generation trip themselves then expect everyone to come running to get them up.

[@CTN404]

Until the rest of the group kicks you

[@holmesholmes.8784]

Hydaelyn

[@Firestar1992]

I’ve never been an EX/savage player, and I’ve pretty much always played DPS. This time around, I healed blind. Ran all possible content with duty support because I just enjoy story stuff. First run of Valigarmanda, I only did one down for the count, a technical death. Zoraal Ja kicked my ass, but I eventually got through and wasn’t really frustrated. I even wound up healing M3 and M4. It was a blast the whole time. I died a bunch in M4, but it happens to me in most blind raids. The only time I ever felt frustrated was Alexandria on the last boss when I died 3 times when it was below 10%.

[@chriskarpetas]

Doing the encounters blind in the first week of content release and getting farmed is the most fun I'm having in the game. It's why people always remember fondly the Alliance raids that are complete slaughters on release.

[@Jake38nine]

I had a Healer tell me that I should want to play at my very best in the Vanguard dungeon. All because my Item Level was 660 and I wasn't equipping the earring I got. The Dungeon's Average Item Level is 645. I was 15 levels above that. If you can't heal me at 660 in a 645 dungeon, then YOU are the problem, sir/ma'am. I was going to ignore it like I do most of the time in duty roulette chats. But I figured I'd humour them and myself. It was humourous. Showed my raid friend who gets into all the DPS numbers and all that, looked this person up on their raid stats website they use, and found out the person hasn't cleared a FULL tier of Savage raids since Shadow Bringers. Yet they expect me to play at the best possible? Sorry, but if you come at me with that kind of logic, I will 100% go ham on you and ask you if you completed EVERY piece of content at MINIMUM Item Level and ZERO wipes. Because THAT is factually the way you prove yourself to be the best. Which in reality, NOT even 0.0000001% of savage or ultimate raiders have done exactly that, so even they can't call themselves the best. That's my logic if you come at me like that. You better have several hundred or thousand achievements proving you've done every single piece of content with minimum Item Level. Which is just impossible in this game, but that's my standard for those crazy people. 660 to like 680 is casual. Most players won't even have a full 690 Item Level kit when they face Queen Eternal. Ya gonna be mad because someone is 689? Like, come on. Grow up.

[@rd-um4sp]

oh, here we go again. A mix between "We want braindead content because we don't like to think" and "If we wipe even once I'm rage quitting" I remember spending 1h in Furor exactly because I knew that it was not an "easy" fight and maybe I could help some people do the fight. And I'm not good for any stretch of the imagination, but I did the fight a bunch of times to learn how not to die.

[@Tessa_Ru]

I did the same lol. For me it was the midgardsormer raid floor (i forget the tier). Idk what it was, but I was so dumb in that fight, but I just kept queueing all week, multiple times a day until I stopped embarrassing myself.

[@Spookie24]

These kind of players just think they know the game inside out. Learning mechanics is too hard of an ego check I suppose 🤷🏻‍♀️.

[@Epicflipflops]

Back in ARR me and my brother tanked twintania in the duty finder and ran across a helpful half static that was just doing it to help anyone queuing for it. They helped us clear the fight in that lock out and after that until the ques stopped popping before 30 minutes we would Que like once a week to help teach it to random DF peeps. It was an hour or more process and it didn’t always result in a clear but it was awesome knowing you had a group of randos adamant about learning and accepting failure as a learning tool. I’ve watched the overall mood in the community change as soon as the cross word pf/df was implemented. Nobody had to worry about teaching others on their servers to clear if they wanted to actually farm fights. There’s no recognizable names when you Que for things anymore. Far less random friend invites or impromptu “hey where gonna teach these guys this fight do you want in” from a far more varied crowd then just close friends. In a way I miss that even tho it’s far easier to just PF and clear something on average.

[@PrincessBubblegum]

The rage quit actually happened with honey bee in a group I was in

[@AaronthePedantic]

The Nogginator from Strayborough is the only thing I want changes on. The hit boxes on the grabs are just kind of nuts, especially when they leap the way they do. Everything else has been fantastic. I’ve done the new Normal Raids and completed EX1, haven’t tried EX2 yet but looking forward to it.

[@holmesholmes.8784]

yeah fuk that damn boss

[@corn2454]

This is coming from someone who actually has issues with accessibility in XIV, I think Dawntrail's duties have felt significantly like Nicer to play on my end. Overall I found boss telegraphs more clear than previous content, though this could be due to graphics changes. That being aid though, I feel this content is a lot more manageable once you fuck it up and die a couple times, you just need to be OK with failure, which kind of is an inevitable part of learning IMO. I will say there' one aspect of combat that I think makes it a *little* harder, again coming from someone with a disability, a lot of content feels like mechanics happen a lot closer together than in previous expansions, which was very noticable for me when I went back to leveling, o there's a bit less breathing room, but JUST enough to inject some chaos and not enough to burn you out in my opinion.

[@EEVEELON]

23:25 there has to be more at play...you cant tell me a healthy human struggles at a dungeon in 2024...you can even play it with npcs now that show you the mechanics like wtf

[@Sacrengard]

those people complaining that this is too hard have clearly never done a single SAVAGE content

[@usamimi-no-majo]

Dawntrail has been super fun and engaging so far, and I really hope it stays that way. Levelling jobs to max has been absolutely riveting because the dungeons are really fun to actually do(except maybe the 99 one...slight pacing issues there). A lot of the fights do things that make me go "Wow, they're doing THAT? That's so cool". And it feels so nice to get good at them, too.

[@Scerttle]

Finishes reading the post at 4:00 "how long is this video..." 40 minute video "Oh this gonna be good"

[@Liltama]

As someone who does casual content, no Extreme and no Savage, these dungeons were so much fun. Challenging at times, but not impossible! Once you learned the mechanics it was easy! And honestly, this is the level of difficulty I wanted! I wouldn't even mind a bit more difficulty even

[@nightmare2nightmare]

some people are too afraid of losing in a fight. there's NOTHING wrong with that in this game. dawntrails mechanics in dungeons and the raids so far have been a blast. going through the dungeons for MSQ i died at least once or twice per dungeon and it never once deterred me from the game, it made me excited to learn the fight. Even now coming back to level other classes i still get caught off guard and have a lot of fun. I will ALWAYS bring up Malikah's Well as a reference for by far the most BORING boss design from a dungeon in FFXIV. I pray they never make one like that again.

[@Dark2857]

I am pretty sure this comment will never been seen this late but im going to post it anyways: My only problem are instant kill mechanics in what game considers to be the "Story mode" version of dungeons and fights I genuinely think instant kill mechanics have no place in the base difficulty...however there is only one instant kill mechanic I have ever been okay with so far and that being Doom/Twice fold Ruin. The reason I am okay with this is because in most cases doom can be dispelled by using a specific method sometimes directly sometimes fully healing the person sometimes stepping on a platform For Twice-fold Ruin I am fine with this mechanic because the first time I saw it was in the massive raid in-between the southern front and the second area whos name is currently escaping me, and this mechanic exists to punish you for being hit by two avoidable mechanics within minutes of each other, normally this would be a problem but with the sheer amount of players in this dungeon its very unlikely every reser will die to the same thing you did at the same time so its usually okay.

[@azjazo]

gotta be the "devil's advocate" here and remind you all skilled players that some people still need to watch the keyboard to type some text or find a key not used regulary, some know how to type @ as ascii code and some dont Thats kinda how I think OPs is kinda trying to explain the "mental capacity" used playing FFXIV Encounters are getting more dense on mechanics that demands you to look at different zones on our screen and adjust your camera to even have a glimpse of what is about to happend Besides all different standard markers, there is also boss glowing one side/arm/wing to do a half arena AOE, gimmicks outside the arena you have to pay attention, delayed markers, sequence aoes you have to memorize 2,3 or 4 in sequence, etc. Sure, first time it happens ok, you recognize it and learn it, then they start to overlap and when only one zone of the arena is safe and you end up on the other side with no time to run to safe zone its rough. add that to the jobs that also dont have fixed rotations and need some procs or are very timming dependant and you have a casual player that has to look at: the hotbar the boss movements / attack text the arena aoe markers, spawn objects in order etc stuff outside of the arena (that you will have to adjust your cammera to even notice it) the party so you dont overlap personal aoes of course with time anyone can learn each boss pattern and defeat it without getting touched at all, but the game is not just 4 dungeons and 4 tirals. There is a LOT of stuff you will have to memorize on what are you need to be looking for to not get caught on the attack. As for myself, I dont do any ultimates and I am ok with a little more challenge on casual content, its fun, but it is not so much when I have to invest more time on paying attention on what little square/triangle of the arena is safe on a mechanic that was outside of my camera field of vision and will explode before I had time to position myself. Not all playerbase have the same reaction time to adjust to mechanics that are getting overlap or in a fast succesion. Dunno, maybe it would be OK to leave all that Dance Dance Revoution on hard mess on the arena if on "casual" dificulties you have a little more room to get caught on them and not die? get hit by 1, ouch but ok, by 2 you better heal/barrier yourself by 3 ok you might die if you were not healed before by 4, you are just not paying enough attention, wait for the raise then on hardcore dificulties the margin can be as much perfect combo as you people would like. Of course nobody wants the encounters to be as easy as a "fight" as you at lvl 100 vs a lvl 50 primal. That some are complaining that DW got harder on casual content does not mean they want boring and wich fights, just not to die form an AOE that was hard to keep track or tell between all the other ones

[@Eisenight]

I'll try my best to reply since this is a long post: In regards to having to do multiple stuff at once, that is just a matter of information management. In other words you shouldn't be absorbing all of those at once if you can't handle it. Say you have a problem looking at the hotbar and mechanics at the same time. Then, only look at the mechanics and don't do or look at the hotbars. Even just pressing one dps button over and over is fine. You'll learn how to use the hotbars as it goes. Ofc its slower but like you said, everyone is learning at a different pace. It is Normal Raid afterall, there's no enrage.

[@titmit6940]

​@@Eisenight playing with a few new friends right now and yes, paying attention to the boss is what they should be doing. While learning their job's rotation is what they should be doing when waiting for everyone to get online. Some people just don't realize that their job rotations are something they will be doing with minimal attention paid, and for a proc reliant job, they need to adjust themselves to the fight so they know when they get to look at their hotbar, but that's what come with a "harder" job. Maybe they don't have time, okay but just 5 minutes pressing your rotation at the dummy a day is enough, maybe too much. It's just like playing a fighting game all over again, getting over the entry point is all you need to enjoy the game very much.

[@hinode7776]

@@Eisenight to add to this. as someone right in the middle of different groups and skill levels of players. it helps if you ignore things alot. strip away all the flashy effects and predicting mechanics, alot of it its purposefully confusing unless it will straight kill you, its probably fine to get hit. if you cant do mechanics and optimal rotations, thats fine. just spam 1 while running around and focusing the mechanics. thats still more than alot of players do. and lastly, it genuinely does not matter if you die. the raid will honestly probably be a-ok without an extra person, sure you should try and stay alive, but accidents happen.

[@Cirinwe]

To paraphrase someone else I heard: We're lvl 100 now, the expectation is that players have done all the dungeons, normal raids etc. before now. There's nothing in the new raids that is vastly more difficult than any previous fights. Even then, struggling with new raids in the first few days isn't a big deal. People will get better gear and in a few weeks it'll be easy breezy.

[@SilentAdventurerNumber02]

Here is the problem. People did the old contents yes, but as in your second pharagraph, a lot of people did those content with "max" ilvl and with people that know the mechanics. Getting hit in older content is not as bad as getting hit with (roughly) min ilvl. With older content you can stack around 3(4+ for tanks) vuln/debuff and survive. fresh content? Your 2nd vuln might as well death. Those things make a lot of content easier and make people lazy.

[@Kisuzume]

​@SilentAdventurerNumber02 I saw a tank have 6 vuln stacks and barely mitigate a tank buster and it literally tickled, lmao. 2 vulns on a DPS isn't instakill, even 3 vulns isn't an instakill at full HP. It isn't that bad.

[@amethonys2798]

​@@SilentAdventurerNumber02 what are you even on about? Honey B. Live is probably the hardest normal fight of the series and you can collect stickers willy nilly and not have issues so long as it isn't during the heart mechanic. Hell, on Happy's own video regarding the fight he got hit by like 4 of the groupbees and lived as Bard.

[@pixiesnakes4293]

Additionally as a "semi-casual semi-hardcore" player. I'd like to see one day "Extreme" raids - exactly the same as normal but with tighter mechanics timing and DR:S/Baldesion Arsenal res restrictions and mild but present enrage timers. Thus the raid punishes only YOU for YOUR mistakes but you also otherwise don't have to coordinate complex strategies with 7 other people as in savage

[@Yokai_Yuri]

There is no semi casual or semi hardcore. It's called mid core

[@vaderglenn]

​@@Yokai_Yurimid core isn't a thing It's casuals coping that they aren't casuals. You either do casual hours on this game or you hardcore.

[@pixiesnakes4293]

@@vaderglenn how then would you call people who like some challenge in their game but aren't willing to go full length to clearing savage and ultimates? there must be some middle ground between dancing in Limsa naked and dancing in Limsa with ult weapon in hand

[@hinode7776]

@@pixiesnakes4293 i would still call this a casual player. you can play 2-3 hours a week. twice a week and still clear an ultimate. i see 'casual' as time invested. like a career. you can work full, part time, or just casual hours. they just arent glued to the game. doesnt have anything to do with skill or talent.

[@heartfullbutterfly314]

to me i think optional content should be harder than msq required content. raids and optional dungeons are the perfect way to make a middle ground between normal and extreme content. There is such a huge gap between normal and extreme/savage/ultimate and there needs to be a middleground for midcore players

[@berndberndsen5680]

"Listen, I've been living for 33 years, I'm not very good at that" fucking killed me. I'm in the grave.

[@Raven621x]

on top of that, nothing in this expac, mechanically, is any more challenging than anything we've had before, sure, ew was easier overall, but this is content designed for level 90-100, if people have skipped the story to get to current tier without playing the rest of the game, thats on them, its not anyone elses problem, you've had five expacs to learn very basic stuff, deal with it.

[@JathraDH]

I disagree here. Alexandria boss 1 comes to mind. The execution on that is way tighter than the normal mode content of the previous few expansions. That being said I am not saying it needs to be changed, but it is a substantial step up from what we have been used to.

[@SodamanFn]

@@JathraDH I've seen Dead ends boss 1 cause just as much trouble. And zot final boss. Gear just mitigated those challenges heavily, just like it will in DT.

[@JathraDH]

@@SodamanFn It does have some fast movement but its really only 1 fast move not 5+ in a row with sub dodges. The main issue on that boss is the game not teaching healers how to use esuna.

[@hinode7776]

@@SodamanFn the first pack of adds in Zot, especially if you ran to pull the big dude. humbled alot of tanks when that was brand new. the first pack

[@Crankey239]

'Too hard' in this case seems to be synonymous with fear of failure or general anxiety of working with others. Others have said it a million times over, but I think many don't like the fact that they may die or the team may wipe to a mechanic. It happens, and the more you learn to accept it for what it is the less it will bother you.

[@nevertrumpfromthejump]

I was absolutely crazy about the new raids. I actually had to pay attention. SO much of the game has been dulled to a point of being able to face roll most content outside of savage, ultimate, and unreals. I'm so excited to see the savage version of these raids because normal version is already so engaging and exciting. The combat needs to be challenging for all roles. Not just cater to half-dead troglodytes.

[@LokiCriwall]

Unfortunately this mindset of normal being too hard, from what I've seen, isn't coming from long time FFXIV players. It's primarily coming from people who've either never done mmorpgs or WoW refugees who are used to not having to worry about mechanics for pretty much anything.

[@tsukiko3000]

As a casual player, I don't see how it's hard. FFXIV is really good at building your experience through the content. DT is level 90. If you didn't boost through the content, you should understand most of the mechanics by now and only have to adapt to the new ones. It will be hard at first, but it will get easy with repetition. Wiping happens, and it is part of the experience. DT is not hard, it's just requires a different learning curve, and people learn at different paces. I should know a thing or two about learning curves. I've been a Dragoon main (aka Floor Tank Extraordinaire) since 2014 😂

[@daniellloyd6192]

The only not normal indicator I didn't like was the pinkish aoe during the heart phase of Honey Bee. Not good for us color blind folks since the floor is a similar color and playing with the colorblind mode on to see a single indicator makes the rest of the game look ugly

[@shado3768]

I've heard others say the same thing I think it's a valid complaint. I can see how it's annoying for ppl

[@UmbraWeiss]

I'm not color blind,and even I question the color chooses,because it's horrible... You can't see anything,because the boss ,the environment,attack animation and everything is the same color... It's just bad design...

[@avrax3497]

If people are vocal enough about this they'll adjust it for sure. This was also an issue when Shiva released back in 2.5, the circles were super hard to see even for non colorblind people, but the devs were pretty quick to adjust them.

[@LordRobaZe]

​@@UmbraWeissskill issue

[@UmbraWeiss]

@@LordRobaZe o, so seeing colors need skills, didn't know that... And you say this here where a literal color blind has problems with seeing the garbage the devs who have the real skill issue do with every dungeon.

[@mon0dy555]

the best skill you can develop in ffxiv is learning how to laugh at your failures and not let them stop you from learning

[@brachyzoid]

I beg Yoshi-P and the devs don't listen to these people. Keep the game challenging, make them learn!! Also hearing people say "Playing with other people gives me anxiety" and I'm just screaming in my head "YOU ARE PLAYING AN MMO"

[@killyourtelevision999]

Your like are already accommodated with more advanced dungeons. GO THERE.

[@DrakeRazgriz]

Amazing how people that don't play in harder content and don't progress through those encounters, don't understand that wipes are part of the understanding.

[@filipvadas7602]

Honestly, if a player has gotten this far into the game; it has every right to expect a higher level of skill to get through it. Being able to actually wipe on normal/storyl content if you're not actually paying attention has been a godsend from Stormblood onward

[@morphine.moon.]

The casuals who complain that Dawntrail is too hard are the people ruining all the non extreme, savage, ultimate content for everyone. I like how Dawntrail was a "get good" expansion and honestly i wish it was a little harder.

[@quintlewis5343]

cleared them all with randoms as soon as servers came up after maintenance... wasnt hard you just gotta pay attention

[@MegaDarkness5000]

same, it feels like the one who made the forum post want's to be piggy back from others.

[@michaels2077]

🚨IF YOU THINK FFXIV NORMAL DIFFICULTY IS TOO HARD, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE GAME 🚨in all seriousness though it really isn't that bad I found it fun this time around.

[@theswearjar5909]

Yeah I agree I just learned about logs and my class been playing since 1.0 scoring 0s and now i score high 90s in the raid rank 11 on my data center for pld on black cat and rank like 27 for brute bomber literally been tanking end game content for 2 weeks putting those numbers up

[@codemonkeyalpha9057]

I think Mr Happy as an expert player and has lost a bit of perspective here. This definitely was noticeably a chunk harder than previous expansions, if he can't see that then it is just because he breezes general content, he had a go at this guy for judging others by their own skill level and progression, and then went and did the same thing. As for that I don't think he even read the post properly, it was clear the player meant that it was disheartening that even after the many deaths he took to learn it, still half the party hadn't even made progress (as a suggestion that the average learning curve was too steep). I think that is a point, yes some people are not very good, but if you are going to randomly group players the content needs to be attainable by all of them most of the time. All that said I probably wiped about 10 times getting through the expansion and I am a casual player. Quite a bit more than Endwalker, but it was all doable. Think we lucked the final trial a bit, but in general most other people were getting it reasonably quickly. I think if you are playing an MMO you need to accept it can't just have a 'story mode', and a bit of challenge is the whole point, that dynamic of figuring out something together is what makes it fun.

[@TsuchiGamer06]

They're really not that hard at all. I've done them multiple times and It's great, like sure that first boss in Strayborough is annoying but it's not HARD lmao The raids are great. Did them with 6 newbies (me included yesterday). On average, every fight took ~10min and each run had about maybe 10 deaths total. We're a mixed bag of players from super casuals, crafters, purple/orange parse raiders and people who have played for 10 years or 2. The raid design was fun and we all learned from it. Week 2, we can expect 10min runs with maybe 5 deaths total. It's always about discussion, paying attention and willingness to learn

[@Cranson92]

"I've been playing for 6 years". Doing something for a long time doesn't make you instantly good or all knowing. I've been (nearly) a tank 1 trick for 1700+ hours since 6.2, done plenty of savage/extreme, and I found out TWO WEEKS AGO that tank ranged attacks had increased emnity. And it was from my friend who barely plays tanks at all. Time investment does not inherently equal knowledge or skill.

[@Kisuzume]

Read your tooltips lol.

[@Shiirow]

Did you know that Arm's Length can be used as a tank CD on large trash pulls that apply an attack speed debuff to all enemies that attack you?

[@batboy555]

I prefer it to a taunt. You miss a mob on an aoe pull throw something at it. Easy.

[@sanyr80]

Not being able to clear the content on a second screen while you're watching KZbin is not a bad thing, it's a good thing.

[@lazereth45]

I like the difficulty, please don’t change it 😢

[@clearcat7296]

people want a dummy target boss that does nothing and just lets you dps it down, then they'll complain that THATS too tough.....

[@SoraRikuHeart]

So, my main issue is with the first trial and the vanguard dungeon. for the first trial, where does it show you where to go when it says 'the boss opens its beak wide'? Because i see no tell about that and once it says it, BOOM, giant orange aoe move. So i have to keep an eye on the others in order to see where to go. Granted, my monitor is not that big so I may be missing spots that are shown, because i am mainly keeping my camera focused on the boss. Then for Vanguard, the second boss fight, to me at least, turns into sensory overload with all the markers that appear on top of each other and and i have no idea where i am supposed to go for the 'safety spot' or where i am supposed to run too.

[@Lauren_42]

Loving the dungeons/trials/raids so far. One small change I would personally make, carnival ghost dungeon, 2nd boss, the cups that get taken over, I would like to see a tell of some sort, like the smoke in the cup a different colour, or the ghost heads popping up near the end of cups spinning, perhaps they could add cream to the cups, something to make them different - unless someone noticed something I did not?

[@AcraViolet]

You need to track the cups while they spin.

[@incrediblefrown1288]

the observation that "solved" cups for me is that even when there's eight cups, there's only actually four moving objects; like an actual saucer ride, they're paired up on four plates that are just spinning the opposite direction of the ride as a whole. the cups themselves won't shuffle between pairs, so just keep your attention on the left ghost and dodge to the left of that cup

[@sergel02]

@@AcraVioletI think that’s the issue as toward the end they spin so much and so fast it gets tough to tell.

[@Lauren_42]

@@AcraViolet yes, congrats on that observation 🙄🎉

[@Lauren_42]

I have no problem with the mechanic as it means paying attention. I was making a suggestion in case of distractions. The heads popping up near the end of the spin would just help with that, like a confirmation, make it twitchy so you have to move fast if there are concerns about something making it too easy.

[@g7lethal]

the official forums are a joke, those folks have an issue with literally everything in the game, from mounts that now turn a bit causing them to get motion sickness to the game difficulty, they should probably be ignored because they will never be satisfied.

[@d0tsf0rlife]

Oh no we have to use a few more brain cells. The horror.

[@thed4rknss673]

Honestly, i don't understand hyper casual players... You should get exited by a step up in difficulty and new mechanics, not frustrated, if you think you suck too hard at the game try to learn more about it, meld your gear, get a good food, watch a guide in what you think you're lacking... just don't go to the official forum cry about it

[@BlaizeTheDragon]

People aren't used to having low/matching item levels but i would definitely argue that Dawntrail has more "okay you better be paying attention" mechanics.

[@ody2544]

I might be in the minority on this one as a filthy casual. I typically pick up each expansion play through the msq and then walk away until the next expansion. I feel like 14 is the premier ff story experience, and I've been playing it as such since ARR. I tend to enjoy job complexity over fight complexity. It feels to me like they have inverted over time, where jobs used to be the complexity and fights were straightforward to the reverse now. I find my initial runs irritating with the vulnerability stacks, I missed two mechanics, start over.... (trusts). Again I'm probably in the minority and i can work it out the fights but I get the frustration. I want job complexity back personally but that's just one opinion.

[@soulseeker19781]

I started in very early Shadowbringers. At first I was afraid to try normal raids and even alliance raids because I heard rumors of how hard they were. Now I think the Shadowbringers normal and alliance raids were perfect in terms of difficulty and engagement factor. EW everything was too easy, IMO. And not just a little, but a LOT too easy. I'm glad to see DT push tings back to being more engaging/challenging. That said, I do think there a few bosses, even in dungeons that a bit on the cheap difficulty side. Prime examples IMO would be the first boss in the final MSQ dungeon or the first 2 bosses in Strayborough Deadwalk (dolls and teacup bosses). And R2 also kind of relies on others in the party knowing how to deal with the heart gauge and not be selfish. My point is I hope Square doesn't back down and go back to EZ mode mechanics we had in EW.

[@holmesholmes.8784]

i fukin hate the doll and the teacup. They’re not hard, they’re just cheap and annoying, their mechanic are extremely attention demanding

[@stephenlock6542]

I love the Dawntrail content! So much fun! Shows many players aren’t used to failure….

[@TheSlowpokeIsAGamer]

This is definitely the inevitable payback for how easy and single-player focused Endwalker was. We'll see how SE handles this. I remember when WoW got pushback for trying to rectify how easy WotLK was in Cataclysm. They caved and things only got even more easy over time.

[@VinceKv57]

What are they expecting? It’s a Lv90-100 It should be difficult. Not impossible. Casual or not we are in the lv100 categories. Everything can’t be easy always. This is the type of difficulty is what we needed and looking forward for more challenges in this expansion. You die? Well keep trying and you learn! Look for guides also! Guarantee there’s always a guide around that teaches you even for the basic stuff and learn from it. A lot of the time in game I discover that lot of people have issues is due mostly people go skipping the entire story to start in current content and being super new to the game. Same thing. Doing job skip without even touching the jobs and have no clue what they doing in the dungeons or raids. Trust me it happens a lot and mostly the same ones posting game is to difficult. There’s a learning processs through the whole game. Mechanics gets repeated overtime and teaches you for new stuff. Main reason I tell everyone to play through the whole thing even in New Game + if you skip that way you adjust to everything and learn and get experience. But again! Is Lv100!!! It’s gonna be difficult! And looking forward for more! 👌🏻

[@shaunanderson8491]

I’m not elitist. Far from it. Not the best ffxiv player by far. But, I knew this would happen. The devs are finally forcing people to have to actually try a little bit on normal and now there is backlash. Also, that comment telling them to get back to crafting the week 1 gear was 🔥 Worth watching just to hear that gem.

[@kirigherkins]

Ivalice raids are still peak

[@fredxu99]

True. I love Orbonne. Thunder God and Agrias are some peak designs.

[@holmesholmes.8784]

they need to bring back pre-nerf Thunder God 🗣️ 🗣️

[@ItsTheS7]

They joined in 2018 and are complaining about difficulty in 2024. If they cannot learn to improve in *SIX* years, the game should not just cater to or be balanced around them just because of their skill issues. They are not the target audience and should never be.

[@Xport9]

They probably died plenty of times, clear the run, then complains how difficult the encounter was and only ran the content ONCE. Like bro, you'll be doing this on a regular basis, and they have the AUDACITY to complain about it. The nerve of some people is just oozing with wisdom.

[@Mr15moss]

people forget dying is part of the game. They coded in a mechanic where if your health reaches 0 you fall on the floor and cant play until you revive. ITS PART OF THE GAME PEOPLE ITS OK TO DIE . TRY AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN THEN WIN!

[@1Individualist]

Depends on tiem as well i can try again and again unless I wanted to clear b4 work and know I will be busy another day cuz of plans but as I said ppl don't take count in experience on many other factors skill issue is small part of some problems. however Dawntrail is not hard even extremes are fun but that Bee is the worse for me that heart mech. Prolly the only one I feel so bad about which I made a long rant above about.

[@liger0jps]

That person raging on the forums must be extra bad. A lot of stuff in game is so telegraphed if you take the second to look. I don't mind getting slapped to the ground and dying a few times. I get a actual laugh out of it. Though I will admit some things are so badly designed and needs to be erased. Looking at you first boss in Strayborough. But seriously the worst I seen out of most players is them panicing when 2 mechanics are happening and they don't realize its a simple resolve. I have more respect for those that actually try and can succeed then those that run to the forums and complain. Because one thing I noticed and is a trend is. If you complain on the forums, you will get what you want but at a cost to something else and the other players. I want lump all casuals together but I have noticed a trend of certain casuals depending when they start tend to be extra bad and complain alot.

[@korev0x949]

No way this person raided in stormblood and thinks this content is harder. I dont really savage raid and i tanked all 4 fights yesterday blind and didn’t die once. It’s not hard.

[@BlackXSunlight]

This entire conversation, and the perspective echoed in the hundred or so comments I skimmed, are extremely skewed. Trying one's best at something and persisting in spite of failure is cute only in the vacuum of this hokey comment section-in reality, we're getting a surge of newer players and newer attitudes where a single mistake is punished by other players. I don't think there's a problem with these new mechs and the increase in difficulty, but I'm seeing a problem in the community. I got through most of DT ahead of many in my FC because I had early access, and I then guided folks through it as a tank/healer so they could get faster queues as the new DPS classes, and I've encountered too many players than is comfortable who engaged in bullying and browbeating. OP of that forum post is probably one of those bullies tbh, but burying the real issue under "folks don't want to try hard and actually pay attention" is bullshit boot-strap talk to me. No wonder folks are complaining about the mechs. They're all scared of the rebuke of making a mistake! FFXIV is nowhere near Dark Souls hard, but I'm seeing a surplus of Dark Souls mindset in casual content. Bffr.

[@skeleton_magic]

Its best not to take the forums seriously as they live in an echo chamber and many of them have egos the size of texas.

[@Alarios711]

"and newer attitudes where a single mistake is punished by other players." No... Where are these "bullies" in game lmao. I have 10 years in this game I have maybe seen 2-3 pro-gamers™berating others in SAVAGE content (the actual frustrating environment) and absolutely 0, nada, zilch, in casual content. I don't believe you for one second. You sound like you are exaggerating tenfold some harmless interaction you had that one time. People laugh and goof when they die, it's all harmless all of the time. "I'm seeing a surplus of Dark Souls mindset in casual content" Hilarious meme, this is ragebait.

[@BlackXSunlight]

@@Alarios711 You just straight up called me a liar and mocked me. Your comment is exactly the attitude I’m talking about. Go Friday-your-Saturday.

[@skeleton_magic]

@@Alarios711 Bro. We literally have drama videos from people in statics, where they try to clear the harder content. Where people get into heated arguments and people bully each other. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[@kizenandel5917]

I literally have one eye and a glass eye. If I can clear savages and the extreme trials then I say everyone can.

[@darter9000]

I still struggle with some of ShB’s normal raids… >.>;;

[@StormierNik]

This person shouldn't be speaking for all other people and saying mechanics are far too impossible to solve. "Mechs resolving too quickly for the mental capacity they demand to process" speak for yourself goddamn dont talk for my mental capacity. These people are just conditioned and coddled by FF too much to handle any semblance of difficulty.