DBD TV: The 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai Arc

[@CakeBananaCake]

Yeah that's ridiculous. The green sky obviously foreshadows the Zamasu arc. How can anyone think it foreshadows the Namek Arc.

[@user-qw1be3wj3t]

Are you stupid it obviously forshadows the Tournament of Power arc becasue during the halfway point the sky turns green.

[@CakeBananaCake]

Omg, your right! Wow! The anime staff sure know how to foreshadow future events

[@lacunafantasy755]

Lol

[@BigA207]

Much better foreshadowing than None Piece!

[@TylerCharlesFisher]

Phhhh! You're all wrong! It's clearly foreshadowing the yet to be released Planet Sadala arc. It will feature Freeza travelling to Universe Six and attempting to kill the Saiyans there by polluting their sky with his stinky farts.

[@MozillaVulpix]

"This must be the closest Chaozu has ever come to feeling love." ...wow, that's cold.

[@TylerCharlesFisher]

But not inaccurate.

[@MistareFusion]

Hey, I like him just fine. I wish he had more to do. I'm just saying that's how the series treats him!

[@spartanq7781]

Chazou is treated worse than even Yamcha. That is saying something.

[@d-manthecaptain1382]

Rich Dolt..

[@EvanSol919]

@@TylerCharlesFisher Trunks - "WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE!?"

[@abbynormal2419]

Wow. I never knew the green sky was foreshadowing that they were from Namek.

[@spartanq7781]

It could not be foreshadowing. Toriyama hadn't even thought of how it looked. He states this in the damn video. It is another case of people coloring the past arcs with their knowledge of future arcs. Which makes no sense because Toriyama sure as hell didn't when writting it.

[@dannyanderson4385]

@@spartanq7781 Wow, you're really good at getting jokes.

[@spartanq7781]

@@dannyanderson4385 I am but that was me ranting on people who do that.

[@dannyanderson4385]

Spartan Q77 Yes, but to someone who was doing it as a joke. Ergo, my point.

[@bigboi5545]

@@spartanq7781 Doesn't mean that it isn't a cool detail in retrospect.

[@mikeythegenesaur719]

What follows this tournament is easily my favourite filler in the entire series. Chichi's marriage quest with Goku to extinguish the flames of Frypan Mountain for the second time is just a great, fun little story. I know it repeats a lot of little points from the first hunt for the Dragon Balls arc, but it was in so many ways the last classic style adventure dealing with mysticism and all that before all the sci-fi fight-fight-fight pacing of the later series.

[@ripper3052]

Goku's Adult Japanese voice sounds like a very Natural Evolution of his kid voice, Nozawa captures his character down to T.

[@razkable]

I like her acting and voice but I also like sean's superman voice..why cant we like both?...real fans can watch both and enjoy it the same...but I prefer not to read during a series where fighting is important and the story is so basic...this show is better to watch with voices you understand cause the acting is basic since the characters are basic..the dub at least is funnier and gives the characters extra and different lines and line reads for flavor..

[@Bardim18]

I beg to differ completely. Nozawa was good as kid Goku, as adult Goku she is unbearable.

[@ripper3052]

@@Bardim18 says the guy who never watched it properly

[@Bardim18]

@@ripper3052 If I never watched it properly then how do I know about Nozawa's voice smartass?

[@ripper3052]

@@Bardim18 you watched Dragon Ball Super obviously

[@doublethink447]

they were showing that piccolo jr's motivations arent the same as his father's. im surprised you brushed over the most (and only) significant change

[@blackenfist]

I loved the wedding dress episodes. I agree that it was a shame that these are the only episodes exploring this side of Chi-Chi. I also love any excuse to see the Pilaf gang back together.

[@Zantar16]

YOUR ALIVE!! I hope you start uploading again. You were the GOAT man...

[@KarmicBead]

Blackenfist HE LIVES!

[@ripper3052]

Blackenfist hey

[@ancientworld9922]

I am in tears 😭 I thought you were dead

[@mrcat4508]

Blackenfist you going to make any more videos

[@mechajay3358]

Seeing how the anime adapted the arc. It really shows the transition from how OG Dragon Ball fights were done to the Z fights that define the later half. The Wedding arc for all it's confusing flaws, was a nice wrap up to first half of the series.

[@Geekdom101]

Best Arc ever (for me)

[@Omegadeemen]

I see you are a man of culture

[@TragicKF]

Both in the manga and the anime?

[@DBZMacky]

Yeah, it could be the perfect ending for Toriyama's story. Goku had finally won the Tenkaichi Budokai and was going to get married. It's definitely the best arc ever for me too.

[@Basheerrko]

Geekdom101 your goddamn right

[@majinsole8554]

This is not your channel... ~_~

[@horaciosi]

Needless to say, the last 5 episode are a MUCH BETTER throwback to classic Dragon Ball than GT could ever hope to be.

[@AnimeAjay]

Holy shit, there are some seriously dopey comments down here. So many fragile little snowflakes! Not a single criticism levied at the English dubs, and yet so many people have their pitchforks out. Deary me. Great video, Lance. Keep it up! I'm glad you addressed how they introduced Goku all grown up. Always loved the directorial decisions made there with the umbrella. Definitely made for an impactful reveal rivaling the wow-factor of a big panel after turning a page.

[@MrFinalMugetsu47]

Eww, sub fans aren't different either.

[@AnimeAjay]

Ely Nothing like proving my point.

[@MrFinalMugetsu47]

AnimeAjay And who told you that I'm his massive obsessed fan of the dub? I respect the talent and the kai dub because I've never watched the old z. My point still stands that sub fans are no different.

[@ripper3052]

Ely again with that sub fan bullshit, for other animes i can understand the sub fans Being cancerous but come on for Dragon Ball it's clearly the immature dub fans which are problem

[@kingnothing915]

AnimeAjay Totally agree with you but ehh... social media has ruined “snowflake” as a deragatory term for me.

[@TactlessC]

The voice thing honestly isn't a problem until you hit Buu arc and onwards where you have three people voiced by the same person talking to each other.

[@sunwukong5518]

I honestly don't have a problem when japanese Goku talks. But when he starts screaming I do.

[@marxist-leninist-protagonist]

@@sunwukong5518 I personally love the high pitch scream. And japanese voice actors are in general amazing in portraying intense feelings, too

[@thepirateking4823]

@@marxist-leninist-protagonist FACTS

[@marksunboxingzone]

It's interesting how Teen Gohan has a certain type of naiveté that Goku no longer does, which helps with Nozawa keep her Gohan and Goku voices distinct from each other. It is true what MistareFusion said though, as we get older we get a more deeper and defined version of our voice, we don't suddenly wake up with a completely new voice outta nowhere, so Goku's voice getting a tad deeper works. Besides who else can properly keep up the distinct nuances and manner of speaking of Goku than the person that was already voicing him a decade prior.

[@marksunboxingzone]

@@marxist-leninist-protagonist I've always been impressed by Nozawa's lungs. There are times where in the dub Goku does 2 or three screams (due to different camera angles or whatever) while in the original Nozawa just does one long-ass solid scream.

[@zurialcarey4767]

So THAT'S why the sky turned green in that scene with piccolo and kami

[@sonikku956]

I miss Yamcha's older eye shape. Why did they get rid of it by the 23rd Tournament?

[@MistareFusion]

Very good question, and something I never see people comment on.

[@poordolt6482]

What is different?

[@mikeythegenesaur719]

I'm one who likes both. They both somehow still end up looking like Yamucha, unlike, say, the change to Gohan's eyes late in the Buu arc. If I had to pick, I guess I'd go with the eyes that started and continued on from this arc. They seem more... I dunno, versatile, to me. This may be heavily influenced by the design I was introduced to first.

[@jasonone8726]

I think it already started to change by the King Piccolo Saga.

[@zachpeterson8341]

I used to really hate Masoko Nozawa as Goku, having grown up with the Funi dub, but when sub was my only option for DB Super for awhile I got used to it. I rather like her Goku voice.

[@razkable]

shes better in z cause it was dubbed over 25 years before super began and 17 years after gt and 20 after z..people who hate her only hate her in super cause her voice at 80 is less convincing for purists but its the route they decided to give her ...

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Same

[@BelartWright]

I think the Piccolo intro was probably just foreshadowing on the part of Toei. Showed that he had some good in him. I wonder if Toriyama gave them a heads up regarding his alignment change later in the Saiyan arc.

[@razkable]

well by the time the piccolo arc aired in japan piccolo had teamed up with them beaten raditz an just sacrificed himself for gohan in the manga so of course toei was up to date and added foreshadowing for his change even giving him some inner thoughts not in the manga about not being totally evil like his daddy

[@mechajay3358]

True, I mean even after Goku beats him, his never really done anything evil during the timeskip into Z. Just training to get his revenge against him.

[@andorchadas7407]

*MistareFusion summarises the Wedding Dress arc* and I thought the Goku Black arc was convoluted

[@TheHylden]

They way he read it off it felt like the plot to a video game. I don't remember if I thought it was so crazy when watching it, but it's been years.

[@razkable]

the wedding dress arc is long..it should be 1 ep of them seeing gohan getting the dress and getting married like in the manga..its 6 episodes I want to say so they could work on z some more before it aired which I get..they couldn't drag it out any more though?..they literally waited till the post raditz stuff to add filler for miles

[@papawedge7396]

@@razkable But the Saiyan arc filler is good stuff, though.

[@user-qw1be3wj3t]

8:40 WHAT IF THERE TRYING TO IMPLY EVEN THOUGH HES EVIL HES GOOD WITH KIDS!!! Thats some good ass foreshadowing if this was the anime's point to this scene.

[@MistareFusion]

Considering Toriyama hadn't even made that point yet in the manga, that seems... unlikely to me. Damn. I really should have tied that point in to my later "fake foreshadowing" gag, shouldn't I?

[@brabbit330]

MistareFusion Yeah, I was surprised you didn’t talk about fan misconceptions about that scene “foreshadowing” Piccolo’s eventual redemption from evil to good. I think that it presents him in an ambiguous manner, like he’s more morally flexible than the old Piccolo. Even though Toriyama hadn’t written the Gohan/Piccolo relationship climax in the manga, the anime writers had seen Piccolo follow the rules of the tournament (up to the last round anyway) and team up with Goku against Raditz in the manga. Which tells us that he’s more willing to follow rules and do good deeds if they serve his long term goals. Maybe the staff wrote the scene as a way of distinguishing this Piccolo from the last one and show that this one’s not as over-the-top-evil like his daddy? It would be cool if someone who was on the anime staff could talk about why they wrote that scene the way they did.

[@najadamu2724]

It at least makes Goku apparently thinking that Piccolo was less evil than his father (even prior to the Raditz arc and despite everything that'd happened at the tournament and that they hadn't seen each other in the last 5 years) more plausible.

[@blackenfist]

Is kidnapping a child, leaving him alone in the wilderness, and forcing him into a life and death fight "good with kids"?

[@joelanderson4899]

LET THAT CHILD ALONE, DEBRIS!

[@carly8435]

Just wanted to say that, looking at the last DBD TV, I can see you've definitely made a lot of improvements in the video department since then. Well done!

[@MistareFusion]

Thanks! I went to a lot of effort to recreate that background image because, while it's in the manga, it's never really recreated in the anime. So that was a lot of fun, and I'm quite proud of how it turned out, but I wanted to make sure I got a lot of mileage out of all that work. And at the same time, I was looking for a way to spruce up the DBD TV vids much like I've done for the manga. So that kind of worked for both. And the thumbnail! I definitely got my money's worth out of it.

[@Charlie-cl9dk]

In cartoons when characters grow up their voice always changes so maybe that’s why when goku’s voice doesn’t change it throws people off.

[@spartanq7781]

Ending the anime series with filler is odd. It makes me feel even more that the split into "Z" was pointless. As it feels as if Toei was going to keep it one series. Toriyama was writing the Sayian arc at this time. It still had the Dragon Ball title. So it was just pointless. It confuses people. What I hate most is it is a disservice to the pre "Z" arcs. Since so many people haven't read and/or watched them because of it.

[@DBZMacky]

Tfw Lance uploads 👌

[@garytina7009]

dstebbin It stands for: That feeling when

[@johncoffman487]

14:10 didn't she say something to the effect that none of her fighters were crazy enough to fight someone who could beat King Piccolo after he beat him when he asked her to divine the location of his staff? maybe that's why.

[@MistareFusion]

Yep. She does, in fact, say that.

[@lulu1997master]

Time to get hyped for the BEST DBD DECEMBER EVER! Thanks Lance!

[@RubinNischara]

I would like to add an extra layer to why I think this arc is such a great conclusion to the DB series and it revolves around Son Gohan: when we start the series, Goku basically does not have any moral compass whatsoever. He only does what his grandpa taught him as the right thing to do. Because of course, growing up alone in the woods does not give him any other point of view he can base his decisions of. He does not yet understand the distinction between the Dragon Ball being a gift by his grandpa or being his grandpa himself, he only helps Bulma because his grandpa told him to be nice to girls and to help others if they ask for help. During his journey, Goku developed an own understanding of what's right or wrong. This all accumulates once he meets Gohan again and he is told specifically by his grandpa NOT to patch the hole. Goku, however, as matured as he is, is finally able to tell his grandpa to the face that he disagrees with him and is willing to do what he views as the right thing to do, regardless of his grandpa's stance. He is even willing to physically attack his grandpa for his beliefs, which would have been unthinkable at the beginning of the series. It's a really nice and subtle way to showcase how Goku has matured and not just close his character arc, but also his relationship to his grandpa, which henceforth will never participate in the series again.

[@razkable]

the only worse arc in og dragonball then the wedding one is the general blue arc since it overstays its welcome and muscle tower is close ...lets not mence words here..its pretty lame..the only reason we can get through it is goku is so likeable and innocent...there are some filler worse but I really despise this arc honestly..its there and its lame..maybe if it occurred before piccolo I wouldn't hate it so much..it really feels out of place but whatever..toei being toei...

[@crzyboy190]

Seeing you mentioned Saint Seiya just reminded me how DB, became just as over the top as that show. The inspiration is definitely there and I'm sure the editors took inspiration from Seiya.

[@maxillebastille9079]

Multi universal busting, my goodness that show blow my mind.

[@crzyboy190]

Demitri Sackor Yes, it's dbz before dbz lol.

[@RuthlessAggression99]

Best thing to wake up to

[@vazak11]

What a great watch! I have a soft spot for this arc for so many reasons, (( never knew about all the background drama though, wild) I like the blend of martial arts and Ki as I feel it marries the two very well. I love the way everyone interacts and the expanded scenes, Tenshinhan's medication and contrasted to Yamcha's more grounded coffee talk and Goku being a touch absent cos he knows what's coming and the scene setting rain. The Piccolo save is a bit weird and that false theory was hysterical XD I really love the arc and was unaware of all the allusions and themes though I knew some so that is extra special awesome to hear and yeah while a bit convoluted and forced, actually seeing more of the world, the fantasy, and Goku and Chichi being on an adventure together is great, how I wish we'd gotten more of that. Also neat stuff about the voice actor I don't ave strong opinions on voice actors so they as they fit the character and I think she does.

[@EHH246]

From what I know, the "series composition" title in anime is basically what American television would call a "story editor", the guy who is in charge of the writing with their job being to keep the continuity and tone consistent. In original anime, they sometimes plan out the story arcs.

[@andresmarrero8666]

The wedding arc is among one of my favorites and perhaps that is because I like Annin as a character and the expanding of the lore and Asian inspiration, but I feel that it is a complete shame that people disregard this arc just because they consider it "non canon as it wasn't originally from the manga". As if that means anything to dragon ball.

[@jasonone8726]

That's not why people dislike. They just didn't think it was good. There's a lot of non canon material that people love. For me personally, the wedding arc is the only part of the original series that I skip. For the most part, I enjoyed all the anime canon episodes in this series.

[@teleportaat]

Finally! I've been waiting for this like the rising moon, as we say in our country! Best of wishes from Finland!

[@MistareFusion]

I send my thanks to Finland! And that's an awesome saying. I'd never heard it before.

[@bellowingsilence]

It's funny (and telling of how silly it all is) how at home this wedding dress fetch quest plot felt in the Attack of the Saiyans video game. It's literally written like a goofy RPG side quest.

[@ciscojlake6841]

It's always a good day when I new DBD episode is up.

[@paranomsun]

Dude you're the man when it comes to this. I may not even agree with everything (not this particular synopsis), but I LOVE how you break it all down. Fuckin crack.

[@leafbladie]

Was watching this alongside my watchalong with a friend through the OG Dragonball series. With this vid, I think I've finally caught up on all your Dragonball dissection content. Thanks for all the insightful analysis!

[@guardiantree8879]

I feel like the scene of Piccolo saving the kid was to indicate there’s a little good in him. He won’t go out of his way just to be evil.

[@MistareFusion]

Yeah, but my point is why would they be doing that? The writers would have no reason to think or assume that Piccolo has any good in him or that the manga would be going in that direction at some point in the future.

[@guardiantree8879]

MistareFusion Thanks for the response, I love your videos even if I disagree with the rankings. This arc, the Saiyan arc and the android saga top my lists, but that’s mostly the Piccolo and Gohan fan in me talking. They did have a few hints that Piccolo Jr was different. He abided by the rules of the tournament and accepted defeat. He even let Krillin tap out without breaking any other bones like Tien did with Yamcha. I’m not entirely sure of the timing but I think this came out about the time Piccolo and Goku teamed up against Raditz. Also the fact Piccolo apparently hadn’t done anything for five years also makes you think his goals are different. It is a leap to assume he’d actually save someone, but he’s only shown true hatred towards Kami and Goku.

[@Guzco]

This series is amazing thank you.

[@metalskulkbanepl161]

15:50 I always though the "wedding dress arc" was meant to run on fairly tale logic. You know, fairy gives you simple object, magically it's exactly what you'll need later. It makes "sense" that way. Arc still got kinda tedious after a while.

[@bellowingsilence]

I think the only way the voice casting being easily handled in transitioning Goku and Krillin growing up would have been if the anime staff knew that such a massive amount of time was going to be spent with these characters grown up in the first place. Given the ages of Goku and Krillin when we first see them, on the verge of adolescence, in theory, they may have just been able to start with higher voiced males further speaking in “boyish” voices, then dropping the tone later. Sounds weird, but if you listen to MasakoX’s take on Gohan and Goku in DBZA, it’s clear that this could be done pretty convincingly with the right actors.

[@bigcas78]

My favorite stretch of dragonball television animation visually starts now. I love the rounded and less uniformed art style combined with more bombastic flash of later DB. it hits the right notes for me

[@bladeoflight12hardcorepro50]

This is why I have actors voice the same character through out their life. (Granted not all of them can do kid voices.) Also the filler explanation.

[@fran3ro]

I thought Baba gave them free advice because she knew Goku would beat the crap out of whatever fighter she could use.

[@PureMaddnessOne]

i was born around the time of the 1st couple eps of that arc. that fire/marriage arc was part of the DS game attack of the saiya-jins

[@MistareFusion]

I really have to get that game. Based on what I've seen, I think I would love it.

[@PureMaddnessOne]

MistareFusion I love the game, although watch out if wanna 100% the game some parts cannot be reached after certain point. I wish the sequel was made

[@AnimeFreakLucky7]

By the way, thanks for all the hard work you do, love pretty much all your content!=)

[@GohanLSSJ2]

So... the OG Dragon Ball basically bookends itself... It started as a retell of Journey to the West... And it ended more or less as another chinese classic tale... Genius.

[@Supertron1]

And the genius of it even goes beyond that because the 23rd Budokai Arc really does double as both the end of Dragon Ball and the beginning of Dragon Ball Z in terms of story content. The arc has almost everything that fans associate with Dragon Ball Z, like Goku, Krillin, Chichi, and Piccolo as adults, Yamcha's iconic facial scars, and Tien's iconic chest scar. From here on, every character can fly, and sense and control ki. When Goku was a kid, the Kamehameha was basically his ultimate attack and he usually only used it if all else failed, so this was the one of the first times he casually used the attack multiple times during a fight.

[@GohanLSSJ2]

Indeed. In fact, some materials (Such as a few JRPG DBZ Games) _do_ treat this as the first arc of Dragon Ball Z. And indeed, this arc is certainly the transition point from Dragon Ball to Dragon Ball Z.

[@Supertron1]

Yeah, for me this and DBZ Movie 1 are the transition points between DB and DBZ. I include DBZ Movie 1 because, aside from a few inconsistencies, Toei did a surprisingly good job staying in continuity with that one compared with most others not written by Toriyama. For example, Goku, Piccolo, and Kami aren't depicted as aliens even though the movie came out like halfway through the Saiyan Arc in the anime (and possibly even the early Freeza Arc in the manga). I think this was possibly going to be the first arc in Budokai 1 because the opening cutscene in story mode began with the end of Goku and Piccolo's fight, and that game did apparently have a bunch of cut content that suggests story mode was originally planned to be longer. Some of the cut content included Gohan's Great Saiyman outfit, and Vegeta's end of DBZ leather jacket outfit. Ironically, Raditz was the final boss in the final DB game for the NES.

[@razkable]

dragonball fillers are always fun..ill give them that..nothing can be as bad in this series imo pre gt and super then the general blue arc being so forced in the anime to extend past 6 eps..its just too long as f hes important to the story?..maybe if he came back in z as an android or as gero I could buy it but hes given like 16 eps or something ..wtf?..

[@A7XGD7]

This video mentions things that don't make sense but missed the BIGGEST one of all Goku: "I'm not hungry!"

[@TheAzulmagia]

Piccolo was saving kids before he even met Gohan. Hahaha.

[@razkable]

its called foreshadowing...see piccolo was raised with 1 purpose but he liked earth..

[@jasonone8726]

I love Tien, Chiaotzu and Yamcha's introduction, it really showed the growth of their training, including Goku's, when he senses them, before they arrive. Piccolo's first scene was weird though, like having him save that child, before he was even redeemed in the manga, it's not like the Toei staff knew that was gonna happen with him in Z. Including having him show up to the tournament after the registration was over. Unless he had already signed up earlier, and he went wandering off somewhere.

[@Godzilla00X]

If only other shows were as dedicated to their VAs as Dragon Ball

[@brabbit330]

Great job as always! This was a fun watch! I love learning about the behind the scene stuff in anime and manga writing. Now I anxiously await your sassy take down of the Cell arc. This is going to be fun!

[@SonicmaniaVideos]

New Comment: Mayhaps that odd choice of filtering the sky green during their alien chat in the anime is why Namek planet does have the greenness of a sky in the "future" because inspiration.

[@Aust51989]

Even though the last arc was filler, I wish they used the furnace would have been an interesting plot device for a movie or a filler villain where a villain that’s been dead for eons comes back to life and turns off the furnace or something.

[@mikeJRthe2nd]

The wedding dress arc is one of my favorite fillers. Goku and Chi-Chi are so cute and them getting along is so refreshing. It's ironic when you think about it because it's the Anime that makes Chi-Chi obnoxious later. I also don't see the issues with them coincidentally finding the correct items, only because they went to those places based on Baba's orb so one could assume it was guiding them down the path they needed, not necessarily the one they wanted. What is an issue is that Goku and Chi-Chi are never seen recovering the eggshell so why do they suddenly have one? That bugged me as a kid and assumed I missed something, but nope, they never grab it. Otherwise it's a good filler arc and a good sendoff to Dragon Ball's roots before they go the direction they do.

[@jasonone8726]

The manga already made Chi Chi annoying around the Z era. The anime just made her worse, at least later on.

[@kylefields3951]

19:03 Alright Lance, you convinced me. I'll finally watch the wedding dress arc. It's like the only arc in all of Dragon Ball besides anything in Super that I haven't seen. I know of it because of the DS game Attack of the Saiyans but I never watched any of the episodes.

[@ChaddyFantome]

Nah man, the green sky obviously is a reference to the fact that Kami and piccolo are divine beings and the sky is green in heaven and the sacred world of the kais.

[@shmikex]

I've always subscribed to the fan theory that Amin is Chi Chi's mother. My logic is that that would explain why someone the size of Ox-King could mate with someone who could produce someone normal size like Chi Chi. Also (pun intended) it gives a reason for both Gohan and Chi Chi to have such fiery tempers!

[@weridplusho]

I can see another reason for keeping Nozawa as Goku in this arc; Goku is still a bit of a bishounen in this arc, cute and young enough to get away with a female seiyuu. I feel it's not until Z when he starts bulking up that fans suddenly start having an issue with his voice. And because a lot of dub fans know adult Goku over kid Goku the slight changes Nozawa brings to her Son voices is lost. I know I didn't like her just from clips; it took actually watching Dragon Ball to appreciate her range and ability to showcase his odd personality perfectly. That said, while I don't mind the tournament, I can't _stand_ the filler afterwards. And it's not because of Chichi. I also like her here; it's her last fun appearance. It's actually Goku who made me dislike this arc - he felt OOC. He's angry one moment then himself then back to being angry, all for very little reasons. It felt against his character, like they didn't quite know or have a handle on his character. Which is weird considering all the previous fillers didn't have this problem. Maybe it's the staff changes mentioned (considering what Toriyama has said about Z) or maybe it's something else, but it just didn't work for me. In the end, Toriyama's fake ending ended up being better. Shame since this is Son Gohan's last appearance.

[@MistareFusion]

I actually totally agree with you on that count. I almost brought it up myself, actually. In the final episode, Goku is almost annoyingly angry and obtuse. They are telling him he will bring untold suffering to the entire world, and he's just, "I don't care! I must save this one guy I barely know!"

[@38procentkrytyk]

16:00 I think the point is Goku and Chi-Chi getting married is destiny!

[@beauferret5414]

I wonder if Toriyama might've been asked by Toei to give the 23rd Budoukai arc a finale ending instead of the tie-in to the next arc ending that he often did. That way, Toei would be able to give the anime Dragon Ball a finale ending, and then begin the sequel anime Dragon Ball Z.

[@NBlaze53]

I will never get people hating Nozawa voicing Goku. She is Goku, has been for longer then most of the haters of her have been alive. If you hate it because of the characters sex then you must also hate every other 18 year old male character played by a female, even exclusively in Japan. A point I like to bring up is Gon in Hunter X Hunter, during his famous transformation he makes his body age to the point it is most strongest, what can be assumed is around 30, yet he is still played by Megumi Han. In the end all it boils down to is cultural differences, in Japan they don't care about the characters age and voice correlation, yet in the west they care WAY too much about it. You can't take a western concept and apply it to another culture, you're going to experience culture shock which many people do, but that's not the cultures fault, it's that your concept is too close-minded.

[@ripper3052]

NBlaze53 they just wanna fanboy the dub and hate on sub because goku sounds "unrealistic" to them

[@razkable]

trust me they have the same bias against a woman playing freeza in the dub..they claim ayers is better but they really just like him cause hes a guy and in their fanboy mind freeza cant be a woman even though the woman makes him sound more manly and the male makes him sound more feminine....people are biased ...I like both gokus..I guess people haven't heard the speedy or big green dubs..or even ocean goku..he sounds great compared to those in the sub an dub...

[@majinya6199]

@@razkable I grew up on the old Funi dub and have always prefered Linda young over the new guy for dub freeza, but I prefer Japanese over English dub for few years by now

[@trunksvert8766]

To be honest I prefer Chris Ayers over Linda as freeza because he makes him sound similar to the Japanese version the same sadistic yet level headed calm nature and even makes him more articulate even though I grew up with the old funi dub I just prefer his voice imo

[@majinya6199]

@@trunksvert8766 Chris is a good Freeza way more accurate to the Japanese version, just i have nostalgia i just can't let go for Linda when it comes to the English dub, like i prefer old Bulma and old kid Goku and Gohan for English, but the newer ones are still fine

[@justinmiddleton8818]

The part where Goku spares Piccolo with the Senzu after Kami nearly ends him is the first sign of his innate sense of devotion to fighting in order to become stronger, this is even further compounded later on in the Saiyan arc when he very pointedly asks Krillin not to finish off the critically wounded Vegeta in order to later re challenge him to combat. I personally believe that aside from this, he could tell that this reincarnation perhaps was not quite as evil as his father had been. Think about it, he himself was mercilessly beat into the ground just prior and nearly killed while all of his friends were also in danger of being annihilated by the late King's spawn.They were all completely flabbergasted by Goku saving him and just simply couldn't make sense of it, though he explains beside that it was also to preserve Kami's life as he already knew that their lives were linked and if one died the other would too. Some may argue that Goku was enormously stupid for goving Piccolo the bean, but when you get down to it and compare to what happens in later arcs it just is what he has become. As in a pure of heart person who does not kill someone who he believes can be redeemed, which actually ended up happening later on.

[@razkable]

I think goku realized piccolo jr. hadn't yet done anything wrong at least to his knowledge besides torture goku a little bit but in a tournament fight that close its gonna be brutal but anyways im sure in gokus mind there was no other challenge and maybe piccolo could change sides and help them one day..he acted like kami without being kami//I think once you train for 3 years you don't want all that tiem to be wasted by killing someone ..like its meaningless..also I doubt he could ride nimbus if that intent was in his heart..sure he kinda is implied to kill some soldiers and monsters but goku really never tries to kill anyone on purpose..until buu I guess but even then he wishes buu back to life

[@justinmiddleton8818]

@@razkable Yeah, i think the reason why everyone else there was so taken off guard by Goku sparing Piccolo's life is because they simply can't wrap their heads around his off beat way of thinking. He prevented Kami from basically committing suicide by ending Piccolo's life as well because of not just preserving the Dragon Balls' existence but he truly felt that perhaps he'd eventually have a change of heart in the future. Of course we see just that later on in DBZ in the aftermath of his and Goku's battle against Raditz, and as Mr. Popo notes while he and Kami are discussing the change within him while training Gohan that "Old Daimao wouid have never trained Goku's son." which already notes that the evil nature of King Piccolo still within him was starting to recede then, and it comes to a head when he charges in front of Gohan to shield him from Nappa's attack. I think that was when the last vestiges of his evil were truly washed away.

[@ifeanyiozoh5735]

@@justinmiddleton8818 goku didn't think vegeta could become good he said it himself

[@justinmiddleton8818]

+Ifeanyi Ozoh Of course obviously not at the time when Goku spared Vegeta in the Saiyan arc due to his desire to fight him again even though he was very nearly killed after just being revived again, it wasn't until Vegeta selflessly sacrificed himself against Majin Buu although that act ultimately ended up being for nothing due to Buu's ability to regenerate. The fact is still that he finally by that point had slowly but surely turned over time.

[@marksunboxingzone]

I almost forgot how happy and lovey-dovey Chichi was with Goku in the final eps. I know they were engaged, but those 5 episodes were as close as got to a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship between those two. Even though Goku did most of the heavy lifting, those two were still quite a team and it was fun seeing them interact as they actually had a little adventure together.

[@TheBigBlueBugofJustice]

It's absolutely fucking hilarious to me that I ONLY hear the debate over the adult main character being voiced by the same woman that voiced the younger version of the character in regards to Dragon Ball. In Naruto, 12 year old AND 17 year old Naruto (as well as when he's 32 in Boruto) are voiced by a woman in both the Japanese AND English versions. Ditto One Piece with 17 and 19 year old Luffy. And yet, fans of those series have never had a problem with the Japanese voices of those two characters in comparison to the English voices simply because they ARE comparable. If I was a bettin' man... I'd wager that had 18+ year old Goku had the same female voice as his younger self in the English dub, there would be absolutely no debate on it whatsoever, similarly to how the almighty Falcouner vs Kikuchi DBZ score debate is nonexistent in regards to DB due to Funi's dub using Kikuchi's score for DB. It absolutely amazes me how stupid rose-tinted nostalgia goggles can make fans of the DBZ dub. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard a fan of the Funi dub explain their love of Schemmel and Falcouner and subsequent hatred of Nozawa and Kikuchi with "Well, it's what I grew up with and what I'm used to", I'd be a moderately rich man. Guess what? I grew up with Funi's DBZ dub too; doesn't stop me from hating it now (though for WAY more reasons than just the music and Goku's voice).

[@cisnerd_2093]

Hey I'm a big MistareFusion fan, I love your videos, especially the Dragon Ball ones, I'm just about to check out your Mario RPG series. The format of DBTV is especially great, I like how you just touch on some of the highlights, and move fairly quickly. I know you don't make videos for a living, and your time I limited, but I would be interested in DBS related content, maybe in a more streamlined format like DBTV. I follow your Twitter account and like your brief reviews, but would also love to hear a somewhat more in depth discussion of the series as a whole. Anyways, keep up the great work, I'm looking forward to DBD December.

[@MistareFusion]

Thank you! Well, in that case, you should check out my 10,000 subscriber Q&A coming out on Monday, because I actually do share some of my feelings on Super. I doubt I'll be doing it beyond that for awhile, though. I'm hesitant to talk about Super in any kind of authoritative way. I don't think I've seen any episode more than once, so I don't really have a perspective on them. I think Twitter is the best right now for off-the-cuff emotional reactions to things, but I don't want to jump the gun when it comes to seriously evaluating the content.

[@marcus7984]

Thanks man! I really needed something good today. I lost power, part of the tree in my front lawn went through my home. Thanks again man.

[@MistareFusion]

Oh, geez, that's terrible! Well, for whatever it's worth, I hope this video managed to brighten your day a little bit. I hope it doesn't cost too much to fix the damage.

[@lordcrumb07]

finally! DBD TV returns! not enough of these episodes.

[@ChrisPeteG]

Gosh...when they did Dragon Ball Kai....I wish they had gone back and just started with the original Dragon Ball and do the whole "remaster and trim down" the ENTIRE series from the VERY beginning instead of just starting at Z.

[@spartanq7781]

The reason they didn't is because Dragon Ball is very different from the manga. Scenes are cut,added or even redone entirely. In DBZ the only differences are minor. Filler notwithstanding somewhat. So it was a lot easier to condense DBZ. I still would have preferred if it combined both anime into one anime series like it is in the manga.

[@ChrisPeteG]

@@spartanq7781 Yeah, I know a 'true manga edit' of DB would be harder...but I think editing and re-dubing could be done to certainly take out much of the added material and get it at least a bit leaner and more in line with the manga. Imagine if they had the foresight to re-brand the entire "remastered" project as "Dragon Ball Super"....and then, when they got to the end of Z material...they simply could have continued it on. So that way...you would have Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z as the original shows...with Dragon Ball Super encompassing them but remastered and re-formatted...then moving right into the new Super material.

[@extragirth64]

When I first watched DBZ, I thought adult Japanese Goku was girly. Later I decided to give the Japanese version another chance and found the voice *intense,* especially when Japanese Goku is screaming. I probably said this on the regular DBD of this Arc, but this Arc was the first time I felt worried about the future of the series. The Saiyan Arc is clearly amazing so those negative feelings evaporated but I think it was the filler Arc that really pushed me over the edge. For me to like any Arc, filler or not, is the central goal has to not be bullshit. As Lance pointed out, some people call this filler Arc the "Wedding Dress Arc". As much as this filler Arc includes all this Chinese mythology, I could not care less because the central purpose of the adventure Goku and Chi Chi are on poisons that. It also does not matter that Goku and Chi Chi are having fun on an adventure together because Chi Chi is a bad character the entire time after this anyway. I have difficulty explaining it but I also hate everything about Ox King's castle burning again. I hate this filler Arc so damn much. And goddamn this is quite long for a filler Arc, it overstayed its welcome.

[@adamgentile7953]

How come every time i binge watch your series you always have a new episode at the end.

[@ico128]

The Wedding Dress arc is basically every Chinese fantasy movie ever made.

[@guardiantree8879]

I think the scene showing Piccolo saving the kid was to show there was a little bit of good in him. Granted a bit he’d never admit was there until he died for Gohan.

[@dudewhodoesstuff8959]

Cell arc soon, huh? The month of Christmas is going to be gooooood (bad.)

[@spartanq7781]

@Santiago Scarpino He states all of the time he likes the entire series. It having a low score doesn't change that. It just means he has a lot more problems with it than other arcs. Which I agree on. That arc frustrates me so much but I still like it too.

[@poordolt6482]

@@spartanq7781 really i actually hate the Cell arc but i have only seen the anime which is 50% landscape that arent even interesting maybe the manga is better

[@spartanq7781]

@@poordolt6482 The manga is mostly the same. In fact worse in a lot of instances. The anime fixed some problems. One huge example is how in the manga Trunks says 19 and 20 were the artificial humans who destroyed his timeline. However as we all know Toriyama out of the blue chhanged the main villains into 17 and 18. Retroactively changing his timelines artificial humans into them. The anime had the advantage of knowing that happens so they removed Trunk's line about 19 and 20. It still is obviously a massive retcon but it isn't as blatient. Kai is the best way to experience the arc. Since it removes a lot of the boring filler but retains the fixes. I still don't like the arc very much but it's something. There is no arc I hate. Dragon Ball Z filler and Super notwithstanding.

[@2000mphgirl]

@@poordolt6482 besides the pacing stuff, i actually think that the anime does a better job with the cell saga compared too the manga.

[@AliceBright]

That’s an impressive theory! I’m gonna go spread it.

[@ruggie.74]

Nozawa is amazing. People are dumb.

[@thepirateking4823]

Nozawa Masako > Sean Schemmel That’s a hill I’m willing to die on (Also NGL Lawrence Simpson AKA MasakoX from Team Four Star is a very accurate depiction on how Goku would sound in English yes I know TFS is a parody but still)

[@vykuntapufangtxpreet9546]

Facts.

[@SylentEcho]

Thank you for bringing up the issue with Goku's voice. Goku's overgrown man-child persona just wouldn't be the same without Nozawa. She was the fifth Goku I ever heard and after that there was no going back. All dub Gokus just sound a little odd to me...like there's something missing.

[@ripper3052]

Dude These dub fans Are so hurt that how dare Lance defended Nozawa's portrayal of Adult goku But not appreciate their lord Sean Schemmel

[@djayramos2331]

2nd best filler in the series IMO. i can't wait for DBDTV Saiyan arc because the filler (For Gohan and Piccolo) is great. Normally i would have taken the original end for the arc but look Lance pointed out Z is when we see less of the Asian mythology so i really love this here.

[@KaijuCommander]

Yeah, it would have been nice to see more of Goku & Chichi as a battle couple/adventuring duo before the gaps in their power levels made that impossible, and before they established humans were too weak to keep up with all the aliens, monsters, & androids that would be introduced later on, all they do afterwards is just bicker (well, mostly just Chichi bickers & Goku acts dumbfounded, but you get the idea).

[@razkable]

chi chi isnr really a fighter though..she trains for like 5 years plus to meet goku at the tournament who she expects will be there..we forget we didn't see her during the first 3 year timeskip when goku is around 15...who knows what she looks like there

[@Epsilonsama]

I like how they introduced Ma Junior in the Anime. Idk if the Saiyan Arc was already going by that point but I liked how it foreshadowed that Ma Junior him to not be as evil as his father.

[@Ironclad17]

Nozawa may have been a good choice for an older Goku still in the 80s but my god is time a harsh mistress by Super. When she does a kiai or a groan now, you can actually hear her going hoarse. She's over 80 at this point! Somehow I don't get that impression from Mayumi Tanaka in her leading roles still even though she's in her 60s.

[@ALocalClown]

@@mechajay3358 Tanaka is 20 years behind Nozawa, so she's still got a lot left in the tank.

[@lssjgaming1599]

As you said with the deeper voice but similar I felt that the dub was able to handle it well as Schemmel’s Goku was a pretty easy transition from Nadolony.

[@Ataru320]

Hey the growing up of a child-like character works with Goku...and considering who else Tanaka plays, Krillin too.

[@Soynereh]

Saint Seiya staff went to DB? Maybe that's where all those brutal bloody filler visuals came from.

[@HybridAngelZero]

I actually theorize that the green sky on Namek thing is actually inspired by the green tint used on the episode. Retroactive foreshadowing?

[@asherzerbib3461]

Weird how Yamcha and Krillin were about getting love/married yet in the finale Goku is the one who gets both hitched and wedded! I'd like to think somebody across the pond giggled at that irony as they wrote the Fire Mountain arc (what I call the Wedding Dress arc).

[@therealhardrock]

one more interesting not about Goku's Japanese voice, if you lower the pitch 20% it actually sounds like a proper man. Masako Nozawa did well to create a masculine tone in her voice, the only flaw is that it's too high-pitched. Normally if you pitch down a woman's voice, it sounds like a man talking with a feminine lisp, Masako Nozawa is very good at suppressing that.

[@205mohamad]

I mean I liked ChiChi meeting Grandpa Gohan...

[@mechajay3358]

Yeah at least Grandoa Gohan got Granddaughter-in law and knows Goku will have a family of his own. It was pretty heartwarming.

[@JazzyWaffles]

"Maybe Goku beat the warriors off-screen" Uh... Baba giving the gang free divinations was already given a reason back during the Daimao arc. Her five fighters are too weak even for Kid Goku, much less everyone at the end of chapter 194.

[@Basheerrko]

Thanks so much for the video i really enjoyed because its shows how awesome this arc was and especially for me how its has the best fight in the Dragon ball series in my opinion. #gokuvspiccolo

[@ShinAk1raSama]

It's not really jarring to hear a character being voiced by a different voice actor if it makes sense. Granted, it could just be subjective views, but one can also argue that it'd be jarring to hear the opposite, as well. There are shows and animated films which have the pre- and post-pubescent versions of the characters be voiced by different voice actors. Obviously, the original dub of Dragon Ball (as well as literally every version of Naruto, as far as I know) is an example of where the opposite is true. However, looking at Takeru/T.K. in Digimon Adventures and Digimon Adventures 02 (and even Digimon Adventures Tri...likely for a much different reason, though), Ben Tennyson in Ben 10 and Ben 10: Alien Force, Enzo (as another commenter had mentioned) from Reboot (I love that show, by the way! Have you seen it?), and, of course, Goku in literally every other dub of Dragon Ball in other languages (Have you heard the Korean and Filipino dubs?) are all examples of a voice actor being changed when the character had aged even a bit. (Honorable mention goes to Simba in Japanese dub of the Lion King, since that didn't have years between transitioning from pre-pubescent to post-pubescent. (However, going by those words...has Goku ever really hit puberty? XD) Voices change. For males, it's a much deeper change compared to female voices. Saying that it "just" becomes deeper is quite an understatement, as you don't specify by how much deeper it actually gets. If we were to just accept that Goku's voice in-universe is naturally supposed to sound like that, either he's never gone through puberty or he's forcing his voice to be childlike. Of course, the former likely isn't a possibility, as he has very clearly grown and matured physically, which is something that someone with a hormonal deficiency would not, in such a manner; likewise, there isn't really any evidence to show that he's forcing his voice to be childlike. The most logical thing to have done for the character was to change his voice actor to reflect his physical maturity-- in not doing this, immersion is broken, instead, what they did (according to your video) was retain Nozawa as to not "jar" the audience from hearing a very familiar character sound different. Also, yes, I also have problems with Krillin sounding like that in the original dub. As for your example with Muten Roshi...I did find that jarring, but the only reason I did find it jarring was because it made no sense in-universe.

[@MistareFusion]

Well, I don't specify how much deeper a male's voice gets because there is no set standard. Male voices can range from the hearty basses of Brian Blessed and John Rhys-Davies to high tenors like Mike Tyson. Generalizations certainly have truth to them but can lose punch on an individual basis. I have absolutely no problem, in principle, with works that do change the voice. I'm just saying that both present pitfalls and advantages to the suspension of disbelief. I actually went into further depth on both sides in the first draft script but trimmed it down because it was already getting too long and, ultimately, since this was about Nozawa's portrayal, I had to focus on just that side. My ultimate feeling is that both can work, and have worked, but neither is perfect. It's all about whether your preference is vocal realism or character realism.

[@NicholasRSims]

11:45 That guy got hit in the head with a coconut

[@lacunafantasy755]

Thanks i wedding dress arc alot

[@ddddangerous7125]

I think all the weird coincidences work if you use mythology logic

[@Nitro_0999]

You forgot to mention the sexist mountain

[@adrenaliner91]

And I'm writing a comment, again. :D I'm just watching everything DBD related. It's so entertaining. And I got used to some words.. But.. Why did I watch movies first and series second? xD oh well I guess algorithm. The answer to everything random I ask myself about this world named KZbin. So... a comment for the algorithm then, again!

[@rjd-kh8et]

18:21 Weird, Pilaf didn't recognize adult Goku at the beginning of Dragon Ball GT.

[@jasonone8726]

Probably because the writers ignored the filler. The last time Pilaf had seen Goku in canon, was when he was fighting King Piccolo.

[@sbthesage2100]

Little did we know how many memes came outa that Goku in bed pic

[@supersarioman999]

In the hispano-american fandum the discussion about the voice actors doesn't exist, everybody just like our dub better and that's it.

[@MrFinalMugetsu47]

Sario the Saddest Soul The latin american dub right? Didn't you guys have the woman that voiced Goku do Gohan and Goten as kids?

[@hellkaiser64]

They loved both... Laura torres as kid goku/gohan/goten And Mario Castañeda as adult goku

[@MrFinalMugetsu47]

Masquerade They practically fixed the Japanese version biggest mistake.

[@ripper3052]

Ely again fanboying Latino version

[@MrFinalMugetsu47]

Ripper 30 Nice.

[@djayramos2331]

Come to think of it, where they trying to make a running joke out of Yajirobe biting asses?

[@MistareFusion]

He does it again in the Saiyan Arc, yes.

[@Aust51989]

I also think this episode with Pilaf helps to ruin the plot of GT because Pilaf forgot what Goku looked like again.

[@jasonone8726]

Which was weird because the Dragon Ball and Z filler and movies were all connected to GT.