DBG: Why A Canted Valve Head Is Better Than An Inline Valve Head, Effects Of Valve Rotation And RPM

[@johnelliott7375]

I love that look on the Drag Boss's face when he says the Cleveland does it all better.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Right on

[@terrygrover6440]

if you ever want to learn anything about how to make power just put on drag boss garage the best thing on KZbin always the best stuff tim and the best people and that's the truth

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Terry, I am not a head porter like you, but have a good understanding on flow dynamics. I try my best. I treat you guys, like friends, not subscribers

[@terrygrover6440]

@DragBoss351Cleveland yes you do tim and I consider you a friend as well

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thank you my friend, grateful for what I have, bless you and your family 🙏

[@ericsmcmahan]

Tim Halstead. This was an awesome video. I learned some stuff.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Quick and easy, always seeing and learning something new at DragBoss Garage. Thanks Eric

[@Bbbbad724]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland I have said for years and have been kicked off of every FE forum for saying that the Cleveland head to fit beefed up FE blocks is the Cleveland head. I wrote back and forth with Darin, and a few emails back and forth gave me a great amount of the way air moves. I tried to move this forward with people on FE forums and I got excommunicated. Darin Morgan’s design is it. And I would be happy with just a 4.63 bore spacing Cleveland. To go Pro Stock is not even needed. But he has the ultimate!

[@MsKatjie]

Sorry to interrupt, men. Just watched the show from 2/18/23 and , me was very impressed, for the little that is worth. However, DragBoss, you have made the Clevland come to controlled flame front life and Thankyou . Cheers. As have all the new heads that have been cast. Why, canted is best and hence, 335' s rule!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

No interruptions, all good mate. Just trying to keep the cleveland Alive. Canted is cool. Thanks mate

[@billfioretti3013]

Darin does a fine job explaining why the Ford Cleveland-style canted valve arrangement is the standard by which every domestic center cam pushrod engine on gasoline must be judged. No brag. Just fact. SWEET!

[@58sportsuburban]

Big block Chevy…

[@billfioretti3013]

@@58sportsuburban Not the same. Distinct differences. Valve placement, clocking and angles. Not to mention the Cleveland advantage mimicked by many aftermarket and race Big-block Chevrolets in the current era. Shallow combustion chambers and symmetric port layouts.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

It sure is Bill. See below

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Remember the cleveland head is not a copy of the BBC, if you think it is your sadly mistaken.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

That is the key. You hit the mail on the head. Asymmetric v symmetrical. That’s it in a nut shell

[@stevenrumsey2534]

Darin is a cylinder head and intake guru one of my absolute favorite videos so much info I had never heard kinda blows me away I watch and pay attention to this stuff and he said things I had never heard awesome. Keep it up you are killing it dude.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Steven, he is definitely one that gets it and does it. Making his live chats shorter versions. Many can’t listen to 3 hrs of chat, so make it more digestible, on my cylinder head playlist. Not sure if I am killing it, trying to succeed in the what seems like millions of channels. Unique info and vids. Thanks man

[@Dantheman1919]

Hey Tim, I think it’s time for another Darren Morgan episode

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Yes just talked to him and will be next couple of weeks. Great idea ☺️💯

[@mattmorrison6958]

So SO good. Darin is one of those people you know will have incredible insights in any conversation around his passion. And in a completely digestible way of conveying complex and never talked about areas/subjects. Gold

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Pure Gold for sure. You are exactly right. He can explain head flow like no other. Very passionate. Thanks Matt. I was chatting with him the other day, he is working on something to present.

[@nhra7110]

Could listen to the guru all day long!!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Way more in store, let me tell you 426

[@johnzuggster375]

I really enjoy your videos, you guys are sharp and I appreciate your work, thanks a ton!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Always seeing and learning something new at DragBoss Garage

[@WesAdams-HillsideAuto]

Great stuff Tim!!! Love it. Thanks Mr Morgan for your knowledge. I’ve learned a lot from both of you guys. Thank you! 🙏🏻

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Wes, glad you’re here and learning. Appreciate you 🏁💯

[@WesAdams-HillsideAuto]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland I appreciate you as well and what you have done for the 351C and other Fords. That’s awesome and much appreciated for sure!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@WesAdams-HillsideAuto your most welcome my friend. Ck out the vid I just posted. May interest you.

[@WesAdams-HillsideAuto]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland I will do that! I’ll watch it right now

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@WesAdams-HillsideAuto working on another video too.

[@Moparmaga-1]

Dang, this is some of the most interesting stuff I've ever heard.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Gives you a whole better understanding of

[@jimkillen1065]

I always appreciate your videos, these technical discussions are very useful..thank you very much..i watched the videos more than once to be sure to get all of this information

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Jim, just put them on loop, and let them go, lol. Started a new playlist on cylinder head flow and dynamics, stay tuned for that list to get populated

[@jimkillen1065]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland great . I remember hearing a while back how as the valves get rotated more and more from the wedge motor the rpms go up. I was wondering how much of this was know back when Glidden was winning races . Apparently there was some of this know way back when .. thanks again

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Yes he may have gotten this. His engines were running over 10k. I would not have put it past him. 🏁

[@jimkillen1065]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland I had head that also ..I know your busy, he made more hp the rpms seemed to make a difference at end of the track. I don't know if he ran a vacuum pump or dry sump .. Bob had figured out what it took to make the engine live at that rpm for the quarter mile . Thanks for the videos

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@@jimkillen1065 Yes his motors like most Clevelands, pick up on the second half. Yes he ran dry sump engines Your most welcome my friend, thanks Jim

[@1bad505]

Allways impressed with Darin's theory on valve rotation. I have not heard him refer to this as a "stagger valve" configuration which surprises me. The Yates head was a stagger valve configuration and yet the valves were not canted. I'd love to hear Darin speak to a relationship between valve angle and intake roof height. Also intake port stall condition on the bench. Keep it coming Tim !

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Bad 50, he makes it easy to understand, tough concepts. He will be back for a live chat in a few weeks and has a topic picked out. Would not give me any details so it will surprise me too. Make sure your there and ask him. I may forget with all that is going on. Stay tuned as more info on the way

[@stevewelborn8744]

The information available on your channel is plentiful.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks Steve, trying to provide lots of choices, glad you appreciate it my friend

[@rogerpaulll1451]

mr morgan is one smart guy

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

He sure is. Give you the heads up. We are planning on a live chat for the 28th be there brother

[@ElvinLeadfoot]

Tim - The Coyote type heads. Terminology (Polyquad) Meaning Two different sized intake and exhaust valves. Creating more swirl:) Four valve heads typically tumble the air into the cylinder. So you have two different sized intake and exhaust valve to promote and create swirl. Swirl is where you get your low end torque. So with a four valve head you get (Twirl) Polyquad design modifications. David Vizard Channel - Polyquad Heads

[@4-gear]

Another great informational video Tim!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks again!

[@johnelliott7375]

It is going to be talked about now and I am looking forward to seeing and hearing/everything about it.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Always learning something new at DragBoss Garage John

[@markcrockford9679]

kaase and Ardeama and Braun do some interesting stuff with the valve positioning on Kaasesengine masters y block and Aerdema and Brauns model A motor

[@rolandtamaccio3285]

Darin, has those fingers in invisible valve guides .

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

They are and the clearance is perfect 👍

[@rolandtamaccio3285]

When the changeover to 10,500 revs occurred I didn't know how much the Hemis were over reving . Noble did because he raced them . McGehea did because he dynoed them .

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

It’s stuff like this let’s gives you the inside scoop of why things happen. Thanks Roland

[@rotorr22]

So the NHRA knew the rules change would make the class a GM only deal. Shocking.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Funny how biased they were

[@johnelliott7375]

​@@DragBoss351Cleveland we knew it would be that way after it was introduced.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@@johnelliott7375 right on

[@treyrags]

Think of the thousands of tests done to learn this.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thousands of tests and hours Rags

[@chadkent1241]

There's a reason the Cleveland was the most handicapped engine in PS..... Canted valves, baby!!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

That’s what I’m talking about Chad

[@blindabinda1234]

Where is there a link to his channel? Great content from you both.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Thanks so much so much more to see and hear. Here it the link youtube.com/@DragBoss351Cleveland?si=ZvmBsDlSJ5XcDGQn

[@DaveMcLain]

Very good video thank you for sharing. Just looking at the idea of valve rotation it makes it seem like a Harley motorcycle engine would be sort of the worst combination. An engine that doesn't like a lot of RPM with a cylinder head that's very heavily rotated. Would it have been much better served with more of a canted valve layout?

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Hey Dave good to see your here. I don’t know much about their heads, but I know Darin has ported and worked a few over. At the end of video a guy was telling Darin his Harley head he did was working great

[@hbarends5483]

Thanks to Richard Keinath for putting the canted valve cylinder head to the forefront of performance!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Was he the one that designed the mopar head? H

[@hbarends5483]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland He was the one who designed the Big block Chevrolet . It was intended for nascar at the time .Also known as the mystery motor. Not saying that the design wasn't improved upon over time. I would say in my opinion that it was the first performance use of the design!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

@@hbarends5483 ok. Please don’t say the cleveland head is a copy of the BBC head. Further from the truth. Molar was the first I think but nothing came of it.

[@hbarends5483]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland no I wouldn't say the Cleveland head was a copy. Ford rotated the valves more and had a smaller combustion chamber plus symmetrical intake ports. Mopar had the 318 poly sphere engine. It had canted valves but I don't believe with a shaft mounted rocker set up you could rotate the valves and it wasn't really a high performance oriented engine!

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

You get it, thanks. Similar but not a copy. Did not think much became of the pent star

[@ElvinLeadfoot]

Twirl = A mixture of tumble and swirl

[@johnnyhonda7576]

Talk about Volumetric efficiency and thermal efficiency and calculating

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

I will what I can find Johnny, Darin will be back in a couple of weeks he told me. Stay tuned

[@Bbbbad724]

I can’t figure out why they built a strong but relatively light design like the FE that can go to 496 ci engine without doing a Cleveland style head for them. I wish they just could have done a 4.63 bore center Cleveland style head. There are good wedge heads they make, I used to ask this on the FE Forums and I would get ripped to pieces. I even helped with a good wedge head one of the best FE heads that were released. Got the chambers to rotate and generate great velocity ( anomously) but I had moved the intake closer to where the SSR was and moved it toward the entrance and had to use a longer rocker on the exhaust and my foundry backed out, and it was basically borrowed and made into a Chinese knockoff of a crummy wedge. I want a Cleveland or a Mixed up Boss like Andy’s. A 4.63 bore spacing for a 4.125 x4.125 441 ci Cleveland/FE. Any ideas? A 420 cfm intake and a 280 cfm exhaust? C’mon

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Who knows what Ford thought or why they did what they did. I would what they had worked well and won races so don’t mess with success. Talk to jay brown about his heads.

[@terryenyart5838]

Unfortunately not every engine hS the benefit of canted valve heads. No doubt they are better. Just moving the valves in a wedge head is beneficial. Great video

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Yes your right. i made that as I am Cleveland guy, so wanted to be able to explain more, not just unshrouding the valves. thanks Terry

[@MP-pz9oe]

The LS design seems to contadict this concept.

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

In what way?

[@MP-pz9oe]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland ask the LS 7 guys

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

Don’t know any

[@billfioretti3013]

@@DragBoss351Cleveland 🤣

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

☺️

[@markcrockford9679]

It would be a straighter shot at the valve through the manifold wouldn't it

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

That may be contributing to the increased rpm

[@cdburlock]

I heard the guest say ... When the rpms dropped from 10.5k to 9600 the horsepower increased. Didn't he mean torque ?

[@DragBoss351Cleveland]

If he said hp it is hp.