DCS and Leap Motion good news!!

A small new feature that greatly improves DCS's Leap Motion support: enabling and disabling hands with a mapping :D
Important links to get everything working:
- Leap Motion official driver (scroll down to find the "Download Gemini" button, that's the driver): www.ultraleap....
- Fingers application (no installation needed, just download, extract and run): github.com/gle...
- And an adapter I designed to mount the Leap Motion in most VR headsets without ruining them too much (just adding a velcro strip): www.thingivers...

[@JayTheOriginal]

Thanks for the update. I think this branch of usability is extremely important for the developing of the VR implementation in DCS, and I feel that ED is leaving this a little bit on the backburner of the plans for the future of the sim :(

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

Especly with the Quest 3 being out and having hand support.

[@Starmast3rmusic]

Thanks for this update! I picked up a leap motion a couple of years back for really cheap on eBay. For the first year, I didn't use it for DCS because of how janky it was-- as you mentioned in a previous video, not having the ability to disable your VR hands cause issues with accidental inputs while using your hotas was a disaster (e.g., accidentally [and devastatingly] engaging landing gear on the hornet while using the throttle). For a few months now, there has been a lot of work in the DCS forums on the fingers app in conjunction with bluetooth mice/espurino-based finger buttons that you would attach to gloves or rings. This essentially created a much less expensive and more obtainable pointCTRL system. The fingers app has made using a leap motion in this game so incredibly easy and extremely precise to the point where I no longer need button boxes or anything else other than my hotas, VR headset, and a couple of cheap bluetooth finger mice. Now, having the ability to physically flick switches with my fingers, yet disable my hands might entirely remove my need to wear bluetooth finger mice. Really excited to try this out!

[@antjones2281]

Wait a minute. So in theory you could program it to always enable the hand tracking if the joystick is centered at 0 . This way when flying you would only get hands when reaching away from the joystick.

[@evolgenius1150]

Yes, maybe with Joystick Gremlin or something hehehe.

[@ricbish]

Great update! I’m so glad you posted this since my Leap Motion device has been sitting in the closet collecting dust. This looks very promising! So that I you for posting this! I also posted a link to this video on Twitter in case anyone is interested and hasn’t seen this. So great stuff! Thank you again for posting this update!🤙

[@justflyit7569]

Thank you very much for this video! Because of I it I just got my UltraLeap device. Haven’t tried yet though. But I think I’d really like it!

[@phunkaeg]

Fantastic! Thanks for the update on leap integration, I'm glad that ED are making tweaks to it.

[@coRb77]

Just ordered this device, looking forward to use it

[@C-Infidel-Archer-78]

now if you have panels and get this to scale.. the Immersion! @$100 for the Leap Motion, thats a hell of an addon in VR

[@propfan3485]

Hi Joan Gracias !! for the excellent INFO covering each detail . I immediatly ordered LEAP MOTION before it is selled out. The immersion before the update in DCS with the Laserpointer coming out the finger prevents me from buying leap motion, but now it is fantastic.

[@tetley3737]

I just ordered one. It looks awesome! Thanks for the video.

[@ttenor12]

Tal vez, solo tal vez, empiece a considerar algo tipo Leapmotion si empiezan a meter estas pequeñas mejoras. Buen video.

[@Maisonier]

Ya están esas mejoras

[@zigzagfly1635]

Good stuff. The next step would be to get haptic feedback when interacting with switches / Rotary knobs.

[@cuttheloop]

ummm... what's it gonna feed back to?

[@Siduch.]

@@cuttheloopgloves

[@Synoopy2]

I saw your last video and it kind of shy' d me away from getting this although I thought it was fantastic at the time . I think now I am ready to pull the trigger on it. Thanks for posting.

[@thulsadoom2567]

I would build multiple reed-switches inside the joystick/throttle and also a Leo Bodnar BBI-32 Button Box Interface and put strong magnets into some nice pilot gloves. When theese magnets coming near of the reed-switches the Leo Bodnar BBI-32 Button Box Interface can make use of the "turn hands off" feature inside DCS. This BBI-32 Button Box Interface can be well assigned inside DCS. I have many of them in use for other things and they are working quite well. Just an idea...

[@ChrisB-wn5fs]

Muchas Gracias! I didn't know about the button mapping and the fingers app. Will try your hints on my next sortie! Since I picked up the Leap Motion device two years ago I've been testing it every couple of months to see if it is finally usable. It has great potential! But it is not as easy as you might think especially when it comes to rotaries and I haven't made it my primary input method yet. And believe me: when you pull the fire extinguisher handle in the A-10C for the 10th time instead of changing the steerpoint it's really hard not to lose your temper 😅

[@fisadev]

I can totally relate to that, hahaha

[@ytdlder]

I'm soooo gonna try that as soon as I get the handtracking module for my Crystal! Looks dope!

[@evolgenius1150]

Oh cool the VR version of your IHADS isn't blurred out by default, nice.

[@Eagle01ph]

it would be nice is there was also a keybind to use the laser for those hard to use areas. That way we can use palm up and palm down for left and right click

[@tempochannel6731]

Yeah tried this tonight, works pretty well.

[@Bazzz000]

I really don’t understand why ED doesn’t have the user place their hands on HOTAS in the controls menu and calibrate the gestures and range of motion of moving the stick and throttle to maximum extents so as to say “hey DCS when my hands are placed here in this particular grabbing gesture and move from here to here… It is stick and throttle movements and disable virtual hands please!” What should obviously happen is that you could configure this for each individual aircraft to allow customizable profiles per aircraft to accommodate different grips and hardware setups and for it to be automatic so as to give the user complete and full immersion in DCS and not have to reach for some hardware like a mouse or button box or hand controllers, etc, etc… Ultimately the idea being to replicate the actions of a pilot IRL in terms of hand interaction inside a cockpit.

[@paristo]

They should allow to draw boxes in the virtual cockpit by the player when in the cockpit, where the virtual hands would not interact with the cockpit. We have beatiful and working 3D cockpits, where we are sitting. let us draw box and move it around that space to define things! (Let us click the button/switch in cockpit and then bind it to HOTAS, no more menus to scroll! Call it as "Interactive Binding mode" ™) We could even have those zones defined for different common actions, like "Eject" by moving both hands to ejection handles! There is the setting that when your physical controller movement is detected, your virtual hands are hidden. Or at least it use to be there.

[@theegg-viator4707]

Excellent Idea, will look into implementing it!

[@theegg-viator4707]

@@paristo Also another excellent idea!

[@Bazzz000]

@@theegg-viator4707 you are able to implement it somehow?

[@gwizdekf1liga]

Joystick/throttle manufacturers should start putting capacitive sensors inside controllers to detect when the controllers are held/touched. With that we could configure virtual hands to show only when needed.

[@blackacev1728]

Super helpful video🤩 Thanks😊

[@bjrnchrstn]

Big news in patch 2.9!! DCS made great steps in adding 3 axis for leap motion and regular hands! unfortunally it currently only works on left hand. The same 3 axis for the right hand would be excellent aswell! For now i can work around it and use my left hand in my real simpit aligned with the virtual one which helps a lot in immersion! Also made the option that hands are "not active" which is really beneficial so you dont accidentally activate switches.

[@fisadev]

Cool!! I have to try the new settings :)

[@bjrnchrstn]

@@fisadevseems to only work on the left hand so far. But good they give it some attention. Hope it gets more traction.

[@theserpentes]

What you mean with "3-axis" and regular hands? That the blue mouse crosshair is now moving 3D instead just around the cockpit as on flat surface?

[@jayphi4095]

Still got problems with my leap motion. Very often one hand disappears and I need going back to the special folder to make an on off action …also it is tedious using it for rotating buttons. In fact it is quite usefull mainly for the VAB of MFD and in front otherwise you have to carefully adapt your environment to prevent blockade by furnitures. Using the positioning movement inside the cockpit helps a lot. I am using some buttons for up down fwd aft to close the hand to the buttons to activate but using a trackball in place of leap motion is also very convenient for flight in VR, faster and more precise.

[@staubsauger2305]

Muy bueno. Muchas gracias Juan. Ahora puedo comprar un LeapMotion para jugar DCS en VR !

[@indyjons321]

YES!!!!!!!!!

[@geotempo]

Hi, do you have a video or recommend one on how to setup leapmotion on the PC . I am confused on the various type of software and configurations for use on Dcs.

[@SteelbeastsCavalry]

Mine has arrived. Trying it out tomorrow!

[@rembratt]

It's great you can disable hand interactivity but I would prefer it if the hands were still rendered. I fly the F-16 in VR but I have a physical ICP and a pair of Cougar MFDs so I'd like to be able to still see what I'm interacting with; I just don't want the hands to also interact while I do that. Personally, I would need the hands to interact with everything else, such as aux and side consoles.

[@rcstjean]

Exactly. I don't want the hands to disappear completely. Seeing the hands and being able to designate what it interacts with would make it much more practical for me. 100 percent on or 100 percent off just doesnt work for me.

[@TheAvitop]

About to get this exact setup. Is there not a setting where you can see the hands, but not have them interact with anything? I was wanting to just be able to see the hands to make it easier to manipulate my MFDs and ICP, but then use the mouse for everything else. Obviously it would be better to be able to still use the hands for manipulating virtual switches. Also, how easy is it to keep the calibration consistent so your hands match the placement of the actual MFDs and ICP?

[@aitke12]

Point Crtl Killer!! Amazing update!

[@joelmulder]

Now we just need native support for Quest 3 handtracking

[@jayphi4095]

Finger app just don’t work for me I am using the leap motion dll not the one provided with the app but I guess it is more recent. The app stay permanently in connecting position with generic mode for my G2

[@2xKTfc]

Amazing, thank you! Can DCS use the Leap Motion in "pancake mode", without a VR headset?

[@fisadev]

Sadly no, it's only supported in VR right now.

[@Daniele858585]

ok, time to buy leap motion then, thank you for the video

[@RAFMuffler]

Good news! Thanks!

[@evolgenius1150]

:( I just bought this thing two weeks later..... I can see my hands but I can't physically interact with anything. :(

[@justinallen2285]

With leap how do you turn dials? Also, how is the latency of moving your hands? When you say map button that means you are push a physical button like a mouse click?

[@midnight7297]

Based on this vid I've just bought a Leap Motion from ebay, hopefully its easy to setup!!

[@SteelbeastsCavalry]

That's it... Grabbing one.

[@teggy689]

I wish it was possible to disable the hands but still have them visible

[@BlenderGeek4196]

For some reason mine sucks. It works fine in the program but if I even try to point, my finger just bends and warps. I cant press any buttons either cuz of how unstable it is. I really want to use this because it looks awesome so if there are any solution please let me know. Edit: I found out that the issue is the Gemini software and there doesn’t seem to be a fix. The other part of the issue is just the bad implementation of Leap Motion in DCS.

[@sssamsamsam9]

oh cool - ill check later

[@davidmosher4859]

Hello, thanks for the comprehensive video! I am curious if you are using the Pimax specific hand tracker the fits just under the headset or are you using a different leap/ultra leap motion controller? Thanks

[@fisadev]

Thank you! I'm using a normal VR headset (HP Reverb G2) with a Leap Motion attached to it :)

[@MightyN0ob]

I own an Valve Index, and have recently been seeing a handful of my friends get into DCS - I also own a sad excuse for a flight stick with a twist yaw. Is there nothing that will allow me to run DCS with my physical VR controllers to interact with the cockpit buttons?

[@fisadev]

You don't need anything special! DCS supports VR controls by default. Just enable them from the DCS settings (in the VR tab).

[@MightyN0ob]

@@fisadev I did manager to find those controls shortly after seeing this video and making the comment - I found them to be incredibly clunky, and a bit haywire, taking more than 5 minutes tryingto figure out how to close my canopy on the P-51 lol. - It's my own fault for not watching the video further in, in my haste to find a quick answer. Now I've watched further, I didn't realize that "No Pointer" setting would allow me to physically interact with the controls, much in the way that VTOL vr allows. I'll have to load the game back up and give it another shot. Thanks for the relpy!

[@hook86]

Quest 3 makes Leap Motion obselete. ED, please take advantage of Q3 hand tracking!

[@marcusreid8945]

You ever thought of using a finger mouse and mapping you mouse buttons to that and another for the laser?

[@fisadev]

I did! But I couldn't find one that wasn't too intrusive. So instead I started developing my own "finger buttons" with some small arduino boards and tiny buttons. I'm still working on it, but honestly I've been procrastinating a lot on that project, hehe. I need to design a good mount and 3D print it, because the electronics are done and work pretty well. I'm also using the Fingers app instead of the laser, because it lets me use more apps aside from DCS.

[@nilsrossi4217]

super!! i have to try!

[@SteelbeastsCavalry]

I'm trying it out in the hind. I have some questions and problems. 1. My right hand disappears and never returns when in the simulator. It's there at the start but then it is gone. I am using your recommendations for assigning commands for when you need hands on and off in the cockpit - I have these commands assigned to my hotas. Left hand stays solid and remains... right hand shows for a bit but then disappears. The right hand still functions as a mouse cross and is usable. Very odd. 2. How do I turn off the "laser pointers" from my hands? 3. The unit gets VERY hot when on for a short time, it's because it is an infrared light. I'm worried it will overheat my VR headset. Do you have mounts for an HTC Vive? Currently I am only using velcro alone to attach it to the VR headset. 4. Switches are not easy to engage but it does work. Thank your for taking the time to respond.

[@fisadev]

Hi! Answers to each question: 1. It's happening to me too. At first I didn't notice because I mostly used the left hand. In another comment someone said they're reporting the bug to ED, let's hope they find the source! 2. That's in the VR tab of DCS's settings, to the right, a combo box where you can chose which hands have a laser pointer 3. You can try the mount I designed for the reverb, maybe it works there too? It keeps the Leap a little more separated from the headset: www.thingiverse.com/thing:5445093 Cheers!

[@fisadev]

Oh: 4. You might try to use your hands in an angle where the leap can sense them better, that helps a lot. Angle them a little upwards so the leap has a full view of your hand, preventing occlusion of some parts of it.

[@SteelbeastsCavalry]

@@fisadev Thank you so much Juan!

[@LtShifty]

Just got the hand tracker for the Pimax8kx, so far I've found it next to useless. It can barely track my hands, using the UltraLeap visualiser it can barely make out my hands it would seem, if I put them in front of a high contrast source like a window it grabs them fine, but anywhere else it just refuses to track. Did you have any similar issues?

[@fisadev]

hi! No, in my case it tracks them pretty well under normal lights and even low contrast when using black gloves with a black chair and simpit pannels in the background. Maybe you need better illumination? Or maybe a cleaning of the tracker's glass? Or maybe it's just that the pimax one isn't as good as a standalone leap motion?

[@midnight7297]

I might have to get one of these now. I take it they work fine using a Quest 2 connected to the PC. Is the hand response fast and realistic?

[@jasonzacharias2150]

Gnome hands... With invisible arms

[@Timboslicce]

I’m using a foot switch to disable/enable the hands. Works awesome

[@shingh2068]

thanks for the updates! Have you tired the F14 already? is it working for F14 now? From what I have heard, the leap motion is not supporting 3rd party mods.

[@fisadev]

The pointer thing using Fingers works with any module that has a clickable cockpit. The hands rendering and interaction, only works with ED modules for now.

[@popovqc]

how do you turn knobs like lighting, hud intensity, etc with the fingers ? do you click and move your finger as you would do it with the mouse? I will defenatly replug my leapmotion and check this update. many thanks on sharing this video. I dont get why ED did not talked about it in their own video devellopment.

[@fisadev]

Yes, like that, just like the mouse. Regarding ED, maybe it's too low priority for them? I don't get that either.

[@智敏陈]

How do I make gestures stable, my leapmotion is very jitter

[@fisadev]

Maybe you need better room illumination? Or cleaning the front glass of the LM?

[@shadowbeast8yt892]

do u know if theirs a way to set keybinds on the controller them self?

[@fisadev]

Hi! I not sure I understand your question. Do you mean mapping VR controller's buttons to things in DCS? Because what I show in the video is not using any VR controllers, those are my real hands being tracked by a device.

[@anthonydallalio5716]

Is there any documentation on how to setup and use Fingers?. I downloaded it and ran it but it does not seem to be doing anything. I have leap motion working and the ability to turn the hand off and on works great. I have a HP Reverb gen2 VR head set, so I set fingers to Generic. The status shows connected but what are the RINGS for? When I get in to DCS the hands work (on and off) and I can switch things (not always accurately ) but when I turn them off and point, nothing happens. That's why I think fingers is not operational. I do have everything set up in DCS per your video (no pointing,etc.) Thanks for all your videos and any help would be greatly appreciated. Doc

[@fisadev]

After switching both hands off in DCS, you should be able to point with your fingers to move the blue cross. If that happens, then Fingers is running, that's it's job. To be able to click you need to map buttons in DCS, for click and right click, in the UI Layer section of controls. Use spare hotas buttons for that. And the rings are an extra, if you have one of those Bluetooth rings you can click with them instead, without having to map hotas buttons to click when using the pointer.

[@anthonydallalio5716]

@@fisadev thank you for the quick reply. It must not be working then. I do have the on and off for the left and right hand track to a button but what do you mean by mapping a button for a right and left click? I have to map a button on my Hottis for a right and left mouse click? Is that what you mean? So actually, I have to bind four different keys to my Hodos, correct DVR left and right hand and a left and right mouse click. Is that correct again, thank you for your quick reply.

[@fisadev]

@@anthonydallalio5716 yes, that's correct, if you want to use both the hands and the pointer from Fingers, you need 4 buttons mapped. If you are too constrained in free buttons and have to choose only one mode, I suggest using just the pointer mode with fingers and disabling the DCS Leap support, because with that you can do everything (with the hands there will be stuff you can't do).

[@anthonydallalio5716]

@@fisadev OK I think I’ve got it. Thank you again.

[@endre1010]

Hi! Thanks for making the video. Could you let me know if it works through gloves? If you are wearing some thin gloves. That’s how I like to fly and wondering about it. Thank you!!

[@fisadev]

Ok! I'll try and report back :)

[@fisadev]

Update: I just tried with black gloves, and it worked really well :)

[@endre1010]

@@fisadev thank you so much for trying it! My order is in already :)

[@DraveS21]

Did you try to mount controller not on headset, but on sim rig or desk?

[@fisadev]

DCS doesn't support that. The hands info is interpreted as relative to your head position inside the VR world, so if the sensor isn't in your head, your virtual hands would move absolutely out of sync with your real body.

[@Dolph_Vader]

i could never get dcs to recognize the leap. How is this possible!?

[@fisadev]

I have another video in which I explain all that's needed (driver, settings, etc). It's in Spanish, but just looking at what I do you can probably understand what's needed :)

[@BrljoMrljo]

Is that VR headsets aways shaking this much?

[@randommusings9150]

This is an artefact of recording VR. It looks jerky but the experience in the headset itself is totally smooth.

[@paristo]

This update came with DCS 2.8, and it is still annoying. - Tracking still doesn't work properly, - The Leap Motion device is required to be enabled/disabled after each time starting DCS (requires mouse!) - The hand is twisted and angled improperly for real hand, about 15 degree to up and right. - The laser pointers are pointing from the wrist, not from the finger! - The finger gestures doesn't make sense (index finger triggering or thumb touching! This especially cause trouble with laser point coming from wrist and in wrong angle!) - The virtual finger tip is not activating everything on time when you touch something, you need to try multiple times (and get frustrated!) - The virtual buttons, switches and levers has no limitation for X times a second. Meaning you try to flip a switch and it starts reacting 50 times a second! (Frustrating!) - The green/blue laser beam is determined by your palm direction (up/down) and so on as well for finger touching. Sometimes the finger tip direction works (like Russian 3-way switches work! - Right hand sometimes gets lost and never return, until you restart Leap Motion device in settings panel! (Frustrating!) - Main menu and all others are positioned like 1.5 meters from you, and you can't activate and use game without mouse! STUPID IMPLEMENTATION TO REQUIRE MOUSE! It is not ready, because ED can't design it properly. Simple solutions! - Just give a finger point that is tracking your index finger tip. Do not draw the virtual gloves if not optionally choosing so. - And then make every switch and lever and knob interactive, so they notice what is direction of pointing or grabbing with thumb, just like in VR VTOL! "Magnetize" the index and thumb to the button/switch/lever and then follow the movement to operate it! Pinch gesture is first gesture that human learns as a baby! Implement that! - Limit the buttons presses to something sensible, like 2 Hz! - Make optional to make switches and buttons activation zones on panel, not the switch/button model itself, so player can just point the label or the area where that widget is to activate it! - When hand moves to front of the UFC, allow to use the thumb tip pressing buttons too when finger and thumb form L! - Make every menu and whole game usable with Leap Motion, so no mouse is required to be connected even!

[@fisadev]

You're mixing stuff, blaming the wrong causes, and missed explanations+solutions I provided in the video. Answers to your items, in order: - The tracking limitations aren't a DCS problem, the Leap itself isn't perfect at tracking, you can see it with the debug app - You don't need to enable/disable the Leap Motion device. And if you need to enable/disable the setting for the support (sometimes needed), you can still use Fingers without a mouse, so no mouse is required (I literally don't use a mouse) - Your incorrect angle is probably because you have a problem with how you mounted the Leap in the headset. DCS assumes a device looking straight forwards from the center at eye level. I have it mounted correctly, and there's no angle for me. - The pointers from the hands are weird, yes, but as I showed in the video, it's better to just disable them and use the Fingers app for that. - I usually don't have issues with the fingers activating buttons, only a few times when the Leap itself is having trouble tracking the fingers because of weird angles. But that's not DCS's problem, that's the Leap not having perfect tracking (which is impossible when the body of the hand is obstructing the view of the fingers themselves). - The problem with the multiple switches activations, again, is a problem of the pointer feature, which I said you can disable and use Fingers instead, which has no problems like that. - Again, you don't require a mouse for the menus. You can use them with the hands, or with the Fingers' app pointer. No mouse required. Every menu and option can be controlled using the Fingers app and mappings for clicks, and most of them can be used with the DCS hands too. Also, your suggestion of just finger pointing is what the Fingers app already does, shown in the video, and your suggestion of not drawing the gloves is the main topic of this video: there's a feature to do that, that's the news. It looks like you skimmed through the video and didn't really saw it.

[@theegg-viator4707]

@@fisadev Excellent and FULLY DETAILED reply! Subbing to your Channel! Will also pass on your help to the ED dev team. 👍🏻

[@sethr.4600]

will this work on Falcon BMS? thanks

[@finndoessims3214]

Hmm. I got the on/off switch working, but I couldn’t get it to ‘click’ any switch or move any of the levers in DCS. I packed it away again in frustration. I’ll check your links and the comments and see if I can figure out where I went wrong.

[@fisadev]

If you are trying to use the switches with the hands, then the problem is probably that you have the DCS pointers feature enabled, which breaks the hands interactions. If you are trying to click with the Fingers app pointer, then the problem is probably that you have no click and right click mappings, which are configured in DCS's controls (UI layer section).

[@finndoessims3214]

@@fisadev Unfortunately, that's not the case. I disabled the pointers feature-that's on the VR menu. I enabled the 'finger crook' click mode on the other menu. Unfortunately it didn't seem to work. I tried using Matt B's OpenXR addon for hand controllers but just wound up making it impossible to start DCS- giving me some kind of an 'unrecognized controller' message. Anyhow, I've removed the hand controller module from my Pimax 8KX and everything is working as it should again.I wonder if the problem has something to do with the Pimax version of the firmware? Anyhow, the hand control doesn't really do anything I can't already do with a mouse in DCS VR. It would be really useful in a sim like IL2 in which the mouse doesn't function in the cockpit. Cheers Dave

[@lakkchina]

based in your experience, what VR gloves are better for DCS?

[@fisadev]

Hi! Sorry, I haven't used any VR gloves yet. Only hand tracking using IR cameras (Leap Motion).

[@bjrnchrstn]

Love this. Ordered it right away. Any recommendations on the choice of buttons for the keybindings.

[@fisadev]

In my case I'm using a front switch in the hornet grip from winwing for click and right click (it's a two way and apring loaded to the center), so my left hand is clicking while my right hand is pointing. And to show/hide the hands I use a couple of my stick buttons (winwing F16EX) that I find kind of hard to use in combat, but they're good enough for this, as I only use the DCS hands in calm situations.

[@bjrnchrstn]

@@fisadev thanks. Tried it but to me the leap with hands is just too much of a hassle tbh. Now i turn off the mouse in vr and assigned left and right mouse button to my joystick. Works fine mostly but for really nearby buttons to my left and right I would love to swap to the mouse (head won't turn that narrow) but ED needs to make a "mouse on/off" binding for that.

[@familievandenhoven]

I installed the 5.7.2 version of the Ultraleap software and followed your steps from this video (thank you for sharing Juan Pedro!). My hands are visible in DCS and displayed correctly. However, it takes a lot of tries to flip a switch (tested in the KA-50 III and the SU-25). Do you need the Fingers app to be able to use your hands to flip switches? Do I need to overwrite the Leap .dll file in my DCS installation with the one from either Ultraleap of from the OpenXR installation?

[@fisadev]

Fingers isn't required to be able to flip switches. Are you sure you have the laser pointer option disabled in DCS? And you don't need to override the libs.

[@zaloarg]

excelente video !

[@theodorosrokkos5672]

How you connect the cable of the Ultra and the cable of the T LINK in the only one port of the headset ?

[@fisadev]

I don't do any of those things, hehe. When I did the video I was using an HP Reverb, which is completely different to the Quest which I'm guessing you assume I had. It doesn't connect via usb link but through a custom cable, the Leap can't even be connected to that headset at all, the headset doesn't have any usb ports. Since then I switched to another headset which is similar to the Quest, I'm using the Pico4. The Leap Motion is connected directly to the PC with a long USB cable (secured to the headset straps with a small velcro loop), and I don't use a link cable either for the headset, I connect it to the PC via wifi 6. I usually have the headset connected to a power source for infinite playtime.

[@Sirokko58]

@@fisadev Thank you very much for your answer …..I wish you a Happy new year

[@fisadev]

@@Sirokko58 You're welcome, happy new year to you too! :)

[@bryanmyers9977]

Hi Juan, what part does the Fingers app play in this? I wish I could get the kind of accuracy you are!

[@fisadev]

Hi! Fingers is the one moving the mouse cursor to where the hands are (assuming a front-facing mount). The LM drivers don't have that feature by themselves.

[@bryanmyers9977]

@@fisadev ah ok. I re-listened to your tip about turning off the lasers. I had mine disabled, but they were showing anyway. I toggled that setting, made sure they were off, and now it's working FAR better than before. That's an important setting. I noticed the right hand disappearing sometimes and that if I go into options and toggle the master leapmotion on/off it comes back. looks like the rotary knobs are the biggest challenge.. but this is now much better overall than reaching for sleeping VR controllers. thanks!

[@fisadev]

@@bryanmyers9977 Hlad to hear that! Regarding the disappearing hand, yes, many are having the same issue and it's some weird invisible interaction with the virtual stick. It's been reported in the ED formus too.

[@Rickmanou81293]

Are the Index knuckles controllers fine instead of leapmotion?

[@fisadev]

Not for me. It's quite cumbersome to have to release the hotas and find the VR controllers while being blind, and then after using them finding a place to leave them while still being blind, and having to do that constantly is disruptive in moments where you have to act quickly. Before the Leap Motion, I was more confortable using a trackball than trying to use the VR controllers.

[@JavierRollon]

Una pregunta. Tengo el fingers puesto pero no se mueve nada en DCS cuando estoy en VR. Tengo las Varjo y no se si tendrá algo que ver con ello. Sabes si hay que configurar algo en el programa fingers?

[@fisadev]

Buenas! No sabría decirte si el hand tracking de las Varjo está soportado por la app y si hay que hacer algo extra. En el caso del Leap Motion "normal", no hay que hacer nada, es suficiente con tener los drivers instalados y abrir la app. Quizás sería bueno preguntarles directamente a los devs de Fingers, por las dudas (acá podés crear un issue para eso: github.com/glenmurphy/fingers/issues )

[@CagatayOezbay]

How do you map the finger gestures of the leap motion controls if I may ask? And for me it seems like that I can't really interact with the Buttons. Flightstick and Throttle are working although I have deactivated this setting in the Special settings of Leap Motion. Tracking of the fingers are fine in the Gemini Software.

[@fisadev]

When using the DCS hands and pointer you don't need to map them, just pick the settings you prefer in the Leap Motion settings page. But I don't use that. When using Fingers as a pointer, there are no gestures to map. Instead you need to map two buttons from your hotas or joystick, to the left and right click buttons. That's under the UI Layer group of controls mappings.

[@Verbal_DEU]

How did you setup gloves? I have only bone hands

[@fisadev]

Are you talking about DCS? Or the Leap Motion test app?

[@GreekSIMRACING]

I m out of the subject 😂 but is their any software mapping for hand tracking on pico3/pico4 to start experimenting with flightsims?

[@fisadev]

I don't know much about the Pico headsets, sorry!

[@phillipromano8502]

What chair do you use? Cual es tu silla para el simulador

[@fisadev]

This is my current setup: photos.app.goo.gl/3kFNefMCKiu4Xg4j6 . The chair is a custom design, I designed it and a friend carpenter made it for me, and then I added some of the metal extras.

[@SebastienChedalBornu]

couldn't we map the hand enable/disable by just pinching the index with the thumb ? this way we dont need a button.

[@fisadev]

Right now there's no feature for that in DCS, and I don't know of an app that lets me do that either.

[@tmasimuladores]

GOOD AFTERNOON, I AM ABOUT TO BUY 3D GLASSES BUT I WANT TO HAVE THOSE HANDS AS SHOWN IN THE VIDEO, IS QUEST 2 OR PICO 4 SUITABLE? AND BESIDES THIS ADAPTER?

[@fisadev]

Hi! No need to scream, hehe. I use a Leap Motion for the hand tracking, it's a separate device and not part of the VR headset. I don't have experience with using the headsets hand tracking, because I fly with Virtual Desktop, which doesn't yet support that way of hand tracking.

[@fisadev]

Por las dudas, soy de Argentina también, así que podemos hablar en español :D

[@tmasimuladores]

jaja perfecto. gracias por la respuesta. estoy armando un f16 la idea es poner Oculus pero dicen que el handtracking que tiene no es lo mejor, y lanidea era buscar alguna variable para que si sacarse la máscara se puedan usar bien las manos

[@tmasimuladores]

te puedo escribir a algún número?

[@fisadev]

@@tmasimuladores youtube no me deja postear el número de teléfono acá. Pero me pueden encontrar en Twitter e Instagram con el mismo nombre de usuario.

[@2612563]

The most painful thing is the shimmering in VR and to try to find a helicopter in a jet. Apparently I can only see things after I die.

[@ligmasack9038]

It sounds like you need to up your Graphics then.

[@2612563]

@@ligmasack9038 Or hope soon ED can optimise DCS to utilise everything my current hardware could offer? Things in the 2023 and beyond video gave me that hope.

[@ligmasack9038]

@@2612563 I mean you are asking quite a bit from an AMD Card...

[@2612563]

@@ligmasack9038 RTX 3080, it is a AMD motherboard though you are half right.

[@ligmasack9038]

@@2612563 I'm running a Ryzen 9, w/ a 3080 FTW3 and 128GB's of RAM myself. Steam VR is the main problem with DCS VR (if you are playing through Steam) and I ended up going from 32GB's of Ram to the aforementioned 128GB's and it fixed most issues. RAM is the cheapest performance upgrade you can make.

[@CagatayOezbay]

Thanks. Looks great. Tested it today since my HOTAS got delivered today as well... Problem: The Fingers application keeps crashing on my side. Any clue?

[@fisadev]

Oh, no idea. Does it work but then crashes? Or just crashes right away and never starts? If that's the case, then maybe you are missing the .net framework it requires?

[@CagatayOezbay]

@@fisadev It starts and shows the UI and than it closes the window without any error message... Do I need to copy the both files into a specific folder or something?

[@fisadev]

@@CagatayOezbay You just have to extract both files to any folder you want, and run the exe. That should be enough. If you were just running the exe from inside the zip file, then that's the issue. If you already had extracted them, then you should post an issue in their github repo, maybe they can help.

[@CagatayOezbay]

@@fisadev Will get in contact with the guys. Thx.

[@CagatayOezbay]

If anyone is bothered about the same problem of crashing on startup Fingers.... Make sure that the Bluetooth driver is installed and enabled. Just installing it is not sufficient. Bluetooth must be enabled! Thanks to the developer ;)

[@horstweihrauch1]

do you use this "VR Developer Mount" attached to the VR headset?

[@fisadev]

No, I use a less intrusive mount that I designed and 3D printed myself: www.thingiverse.com/thing:5445093

[@jonasfogelberg9300]

How is the tactile feedback? I guess it’s a weird sensation since you’re not actually touching anything and the finger tips are very sensitive to touch.

[@fisadev]

It does feel a little weird not having the tactile feedback, but I got used to it really fast.

[@jonasfogelberg9300]

I guess I have to take a serious look at the controller then. Right now I have a lot buttons but I can’t remember what they’re assigned to.

[@ph8584]

is this still working on dcs 2.9?

[@Jojooooooo]

I wonder if there's software that can utilize the quest 2s in built hand tracking. Would be really awesome to use this without having to spend more money.

[@fisadev]

Meta decided not to share the hands tracking info with desktop apps, only available for apps that run on the headset.

[@craigmcallister2310]

Not sure how well it works but it's out there.

[@WildWeasel-ygbsm]

How do you use these with all that head shaking?

[@fisadev]

The shaking is an artifact of the recording field of view. That's the normal level of head movement, you just don't notice it in everyday life and when inside the vr headset, because of the bigger field of view and the stabilization of the eyes. When recording a smaller fixed and non stabilized rectangle inside that FOV, the shaking becomes more visible.

[@nima33333]

Great video ! May I know where did you bind the clics when using fingers app? Do you have an extra device for that ?

[@fisadev]

Right now I'm using buttons from my HOTAS (I have a Winwing stick and throttle, they have plenty of buttons). But I'm designing a device with just a couple of buttons to mount over my hand or in a finger (smaller and simpler than PointCtrl, no batteries and just two buttons)

[@familievandenhoven]

@@fisadev You do not need the Fingers app when you are using the buttons from your HOTAS?

[@MrLotengo]

@@fisadev I'd like to hear more about your idea for finger "clickers". I've found some ring style remotes for cell phones but they are all bluetooth so I doubt they would work for PC but the concepts are right.

[@fisadev]

@@MrLotengo I'm planning this: a small arduino usb stick with a couple of cables that go to my fingers. The arduino itself is in the usb port of the PC (it's a very small one with an integrated usb connector), only the cables and buttons at the end of the cables are in my hands. So I only need some type of ring/support/whatever to hold those two buttons in my hand, and the rest of the electronics are at the other end of the cable, not getting in the way.With a small velcro band I could keep the middle of the cable attached to my arm, so the cable itself isn't an issue getting tangled in stuff when I move. I have to build it and try it, maybe it works :)

[@theegg-viator4707]

@@fisadev You could use a wireless dongle to dongle connection from Pc usb to 2 receivers (1 on each hand) to register the clicks. 🙂 This eliminates any wired hands issue to the PC. May use a coin cell battery per hand for the power supply.

[@justinallen2285]

Quick Question. When I click on the finger app it just disappears. I cant seem to get it to work in DCS. Leap works as leap does but when I hide my hands the lazer pointer moves to my headset instead of my hands. I am running OpenBeta with Windows 11. Does your Finger App stay up and running?

[@fisadev]

Fingers should open and stay running, so there mist be a problem with the app on your case. Do you have mnet framework installed? It depends on it.

[@gonvise]

Buen vídeo gracias, tengo el leap desde que lo implementaros en DCS, pero tras varias actualizaciones perdí la motivación ya que era imposible de utilizar... quizás le de otra oportunidad... ¿Cómo está el tema de los botones rotatorios? ¿Los detecta ya mejor?

[@fisadev]

Los rotatorios todavía son raros de usar con las manos de DCS, pero con Fingers es muy fácil porque funciona de la misma forma que con el mouse (mantener apretado el click, y subir o bajar el cursor/mano).

[@gonvise]

¿Y hay forma en la app Fingers de hacer click con un gesto, o solo es posible mapenado un botón del joystick?

[@fisadev]

@@gonvise no hace clicks con gestos, así que hace falta mapear algún botón. Por eso estoy también trabajando en una "botonera" para los clicks que quede en los dedos mismos: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qKu1iI1nnLdlkMk

[@The_One_Man_001]

is this possible to do with the built in cameras on the valve index?

[@fisadev]

Not that I'm aware of, but I suggest googling just in case.

[@DrMacabre]

thanks for the video, i tried using it but couldn't click anything, i see my hands but that's it

[@zaelu]

One other thing they have to fix is that frame of the IHADDS. It should roughly be the size of the mask of your VR goggles.

[@postalou6802]

i have one and i never can use good this leap motion

[@PoorYurik]

I bought the LMC thanks to this video. I have to say, it's great when it works in DCS -- however my hands often disappear in-game and never come back (regardless if I hit the show/hide hands bind). I often have to restart the game or toggle settings to have them finally come back. They always look good in the actual LMC control panel. Any ideas on how to fix this from happening?

[@fisadev]

I started having this issue too, and I'm not sure of the cause. Though I suspect it may be related to having two apps trying to access the leap data (DCS and Fingers) at the same time. If I find the real cause or a solution, I'll post it.

[@PoorYurik]

@@fisadev I'm not using fingers and having the same issue. My theory is DCS is overriding the LMC with its own mouse cursor interaction, the same way I've heard pointctrl doesn't work with LMC because it uses the DCS mouse pointers (they apparently take the highest priority when deemed active)

[@fisadev]

@@PoorYurik Might be related to that then! Thanks for the info, because this means that I might be chasing the wrong problem when trying stuff like how I boot Fingers, etc.

[@PoorYurik]

@@fisadev I submitted this issue and additional info to both the Ultraleap discord (#help-and-support channel) and DCS discord (channel #dcs-bug-reporting-forum) with screenshots of our conversation. Fingers crossed.

[@PoorYurik]

@@fisadev A DCS forum post helped me figure out what the issue is. To verify if the solution works for you: enable hands control throttle and flightstick in the in-game Leap options under Special. Then see if the hands disappear. Cause: it appears that the hands are disappearing because the natural continuous input of the joystick and throttle are disabling the hands when those options are set to disabled (i.e. it disabled the hands whenever axis input on those devices is detected). As further proof, I got the right hand to continue working with hands control flightstick disabled by setting a large deadzone on my joystick axes. Once you try enabling flightstick/throttle control with hands, let me know if it makes the hands stop disappearing for you and I'll pass it on to the Leap and DCS discords.

[@gamerbvv7414]

Nice, but i dont need a key to show and hide hands but a key to enable and disable touch interactions of the hand. I want to always see my hands.

[@fisadev]

That would be nice, yes. But the feature we got is still quite useful. Before it was unusable, now it's usable, and your request would make it even better.

[@gamerbvv7414]

​@@fisadevany updates? ^^

[@gamerbvv7414]

it's finally possible!!! just choose "No pointers or touch" in DCS VR options@@fisadev

[@brannanjohnson4046]

So you cannot twist knobs yet, correct? Also, I think it would be good if ED would make options in binding to state which bindings cannot be interacted with (instead of turning hands off), such as all the bindings you do have on your HOTAS.

[@fisadev]

With the hands technically you can, but I don't understand the logic of it. They do move, but as far as I can tell it's kind of random. With the pointer (Fingers) you definitely can and it's easy to do it (just like with the mouse).

[@Jonay1990]

you can, but you have to push the rotary around, rather than pinch and twist like you would IRL.

[@nilsrossi4217]

i've never used the FIngers Application (linked in github). What is the improvemenet? Something different from the ultraleap software/driver?

[@fisadev]

it's not an alternative to the driver, but an app that runs on top of it, adding the finger-as-a-cursor feature (that the driver doesn't do by itself)

[@nilsrossi4217]

@@fisadev ah! thank you

[@tempochannel6731]

I tried this and works pretty well. Shame it doesn’t work for MFS2020. Works in the menu but not in game.

[@MrGargolauno]

Hola Juan soy un gran aficionado a la avicion, para hacerlo más real tengo las Vr...y lo de los guantes es una asignatura pendiente...tengo dificultad con el idioma. Me podrías indicar como realizar todo el proceso en castellano, si es que dispones de esa documentación, muchas gracias, comentarte que aca en la zona que resido practican la esgrima antigua completamente documentada y simulan en físico las técnicas de espadas, mediamano, florete, etc etc

[@fisadev]

Buenas! Tengo otra versión en español un poco más vieja y más detallada. La principal diferencia es que en esa versión en español explico cómo usar la app Fingers y no usar las manos de DCS directamente, por el problema que tenían, pero ahora ese problema está relativamente solucionado. Así que el cambio sería que si querés, podés dejar habilitado el soporte de Leap Motion de DCS, y mapear los dos botones que quieras para mostrar o esconder las manos (en la sección de controles > grupo UI Layer > grupo de VR). Lo demás, está todo explicado: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bn_HY4WldppgqtU

[@fisadev]

Sobre esgrima histórica: genial! De dónde sos? Yo estoy un poco alejado ya del tema, pero sigo haciendo un poco de práctica de corte igual.

[@MrGargolauno]

@@fisadev muchas gracias me pongo en ello

[@MrGargolauno]

@@fisadev soy de Manresa cerca de Barcelona España y es mi señora la que domina el tema, hacen exhibiciones en ferias medievales y hacen quedadas con diferentes grupos de toda España.

[@freakonflight]

Are they working on a way to use the quest 2 handtracking?

[@fisadev]

That's not possible, sadly, because Meta decided to only provide the hand-tracking api to games running in the quest itself, not available for PC games.

[@Pablo_lens]

@@fisadev That's possibly the stupidest thing I've seen Meta do. I don't understand why they would do such a thing

[@fisadev]

@@Pablo_lens I'm not sure it's the stupidest (they do a lot of stupid stuff), but yeah, it's stupid :/

[@Pablo_lens]

@@fisadev I’m really trying to get hand motion without having to pick up and put down the quest 2 controllers. Any tips that could help me?

[@fisadev]

@@Pablo_lens I don't have a Q2 here to try, but I **think** that you can enable hand tracking in the headset itself, and it simulates joysticks for the desktop apps. You won't get real fingers tracking like with the leap, but you will see a hand where your real hand is, and DCS will treat it like a VR joystick. I don't know how well the clicking will work, but maybe you can use them as pointers and map buttons for the clicks if that doesn't work well.

[@essamahmod]

I got hand tracking module for pimax crystal I installed all the software needed while in dcs I can see my hands but when I reach for the switches nothing happens... how to make it work??

[@fisadev]

What aircraft are you trying them on?

[@essamahmod]

@@fisadev usually I use the f-18 ....why each plane is different??

[@fisadev]

@@essamahmod it only works with ED made aircraft, not the rest, that's why I was asking. How are your settings in the Leap Motion page of the Special settings tab?

[@essamahmod]

i wish you make a video on how to setup hand tracking in dcs and make it work thank you@@fisadev

[@fisadev]

@@essamahmod I'll probably make one soon.

[@l85a1rt4]

Hey is it working with track ir ?????????? Pls say yes :D

[@fisadev]

I didn't try the most recent updates in 2D, but in previous versions were vr-only. Will try again just in case.

[@fisadev]

Update: it still doesn't work outside VR

[@l85a1rt4]

@@fisadev hmmm okay thank you, i hope it will work with track ir one day

[@LuckyLuke3331]

weird shaky feeling

[@fisadev]

That's the normal head shake all people have. You don't notice it in your everyday life because your eyes are stabilized and cancel out the movement. But strap any camera to your head (specially one with a normal field of view, not like the gopros wide fov) and disable it's anti-shake features, and you will see that same shake in the videos you take.