DCS World - F-Pole Maneuver - A more detailed explanation

I decided to give a more detailed explanation of the F-Pole Maneuver this time with ingame footage along with tacview and a little epic pen. Hope you enjoy and learn something.
F-Pole - This is the slant range between the launch aircraft and target, at the time of interception. The greater the F-Pole, the greater the confidence that the launch aircraft will achieve air superiority with that missile.
Crank - implies illuminating target at/near radar GIMBAL limits.
If you have more DCS World topics you would like to see, let me know in the comments below and I will see what I can do!
Thanks and don't forget to subscribe to get notified when new content arrives!
Twitch: / jabbers_
Twitter: / jabbers_dcs

[@zebrasandro]

Thanks for a good video. The F-pole tactics works if the opponent (Bandit) is using a semi-active missile, such the one, in this case, R27 or also named as AA10. If the bandit would have used the R77 ( AA12), which is the Russian equivalent to the Amraam (used by you), you would most likely have ended up in his kill zone and you would have needed to put him on in the 3-9 line, pulling some serious G's as a roller coaster to force the missile to break lock. You had the advantage by simply having a better weapon. From the bandit's point of view, he shouldn't have gone straight at you, but should have done as you did, i.e. put you in "gimbal", the outer part of your radar cone, in order to deny you a shot as long as possible. As explained by another reader on this topic, speed and altitude advantages will bring extra energy to your weapon giving you a first shoot opportunity needed to win the "tap dance" when fighting off an opponent with an equal weapon. Once again,, thanks for the video. It was a good description of the F-pole tactics. :-) I just had to add some insight to an exiting topic. :-) Hope you didn't mind.

[@juuba]

FYI, the lines of the FCR are 30 degrees apart, not 20, not 40. 30 degrees. So it ranges from left 60-30-0-30-60 right.

[@Jabbers]

Yup was annotated in the video shortly after i released it I realized my mistake. Thanks!

[@juuba]

Jabbers Okay, I paused to type that :)

[@Jabbers]

No worries man, better documented somewhere incase others miss it :)

[@miragechaser]

I'm new to DCS and these videos + map view + annotations you do are really helpful. I've been practicing your maneuvers myself and am starting to get the hang of it. Thanks for the great tutorials!

[@robertmantell5466]

I'm a fledgling Eagle driver. Spent many years flying IL2 1946 and am warbird minded....very behind in tech, so much so that I mainly fly Huey for my unit and on occasion I strap on the F-5 as a LGB bomb truck for the Hawgs. I was recently invited to start flying the F-15 as a trainee and I love the plane but am struggling in radar engagements, specifically missile avoidance. I stumbled across this and at first I was like "this is some boring shit", but I powered through and this is some pretty solid stuff!! I went ahead and subscribed and such lol.....hooked! Thank you for sharing with the community!! Looking forward to more and more of your tutorial/instructionall/tactical/technical vids!! ~S

[@Jabbers]

Thanks man, more will be on the way!

[@robertmantell5466]

Yeah man, no problem!! I can't wait to try this stuff out later. We run a server and you can call in tasking.....if I do the "easy" stuff it will call in a single, perfect to practicing this.

[@Jabbers]

Sounds like "Through the Inferno", fun stuff and yup good practice!

[@robertmantell5466]

I found your website, would it be ok to register there and cruise your forums for info and training, maybe ay hi, that sort of thing?

[@Jabbers]

I have a website?

[@rudelchw]

Again, very nice use of tacview to help your viewers understand better what you are trying to do with your plane ... thanks a lot; I've just subscribed to your channel and hope you keep producing this kind of content ... its really superb. Cheers!

[@cadam007]

That was worth a sub. Thanks mate

[@sg0101010]

Thank you very much, I especially like your split view presentation and pausing to explain the details. Very I'm formative, would like to see this vs R77. Also, servers such as buddyspike limit to Aim-7 - would like to see that as well. This and your notching video earned another subscriber!

[@Robbanswe96]

you earned yourself a new subscriber ! Hats of to you for this! Well done!

[@jstorm7757]

Great visuals and explanation.

[@Name-ps9fx]

Excellent explanation and visuals! Subbed!

[@Luleliluli]

Masterpiece to become part of the fighters pilot bible. I would like to add that the straight short line coming out of the circle in the hud represents the locked target relative direction therefore you can know he's gone defensive right away by seeing that line rotate around the circle from the bottom (meaning he is coming straight at you) to one of the sides.

[@Jabbers]

Yup, it's hard to not want to break everything down on the hud, but if I did these tutorials might dredge on and I find that 5 minutes is already a breaking point for most viewers.

[@GroberR]

Wow! Thx man! More videos like this explaining different Maneuvers

[@chocorock23]

Jabbers!!!! Awesome stuff man. Teach me about the P-51. Anything that can give us the edge. Keep up the good work.

[@robertmantell5466]

Stay hi and stay fast. Boom & zoom

[@SeraphimGray]

Great video! Short and to the point.

[@aezraeldeath5067]

Great video Jabbers!

[@Delta99]

Great explanation there @jabbers

[@zackbenson7658]

Very nicely explained tactic. Thanks!

[@jimkluska253]

I know u did this five years ago. Just saw it.( newbie ) going to run this! I diagramed it and studied it, now it's go time. Thanks. Awesome vid!

[@ChaseRocks101]

Thanks for the video! Very helpful!

[@m_hero15]

Good instructions - simple and fast thank you it really heped me alot

[@Jmanyoma]

good job, important manuever when engaging head-on in the eagle.

[@HomeFries94]

Good video and explanation. A couple of things, though: 1) by cranking before you launch, you are conceding the first shot to the enemy. There may be a good reason for this (e.g. Wingman drag or lesser BVR capability), but ideally you should take the first shot and make the bandit react to you. Get high, get fast, maximize launch range and closure, shoot then crank. 2) That worked because the bandit did not execute a crank of his own after his shot. Had he cranked to the right, you may not have had the closure to shoot a kill shot during your crank to the right. If he had cranked left, he could have turned into your shot like you did him. That said, there are times to lead with a n offset and you ably demonstrated how to exploit the situation.

[@felipemenezescosta]

Nice tutorial.. Thanks for share !!!

[@TACCOFSX]

Very great video with extremely good explanations! P.s try to keep the mic volume the same in the whole video

[@monk8733]

thanks good work

[@tommeier1888]

nice, thank you!

[@peterbiltmark4221]

Great stuff. New sub.

[@photo_rohan]

Thanks will give it a try

[@verticlecharlie227]

Hey Rohan!! I am Part of this Virtual Indian DCS Squadron.Check us out at www.itgcommunity.com and contact us on the forums if you would like to have some company while flying. Regards =ITGC= Verticle Charlie Commanding Officer ITGC Air Corps

[@FlyFastFlyHigh]

Nice one, I know it's a big job, but if anytime you're going to write a synthesis about all maneuver and BVR tactics you know it must be a masterpiece!

[@alexw.8269]

Thanks for that video Jabbers. Can you also do a video about how to act in a close range Situation?

[@TheSkyline35]

Would appreciate some BVR tactics with the Mirage, having to launch the matra530 when you are less than 10nm is a real challenge...

[@Jabbers]

TheSkyline35 speed and altitude help here and this maneuver to keep lock and get in close. I will keep this in mind though and perhaps showcase the mirage doing the same against an f15 in an upcoming video

[@matthewrogers8407]

Jabbers We have been playing around with both altitude advantage (gravity) and IAS in the M2K and are getting kills @~20nm well before the launch signal in the HUD. Play around with some dumb IL76 at mach1+ and see how it goes

[@Jabbers]

this all really varies on who you are going against, AI, MP, etc. If you are high, like really high, you can sometimes get a shot off on a low opponent well before the valid launch range because of the decent angle to the target is out of their RWR range, thus they never get a launch warning, however, if they do, they dont need to do all that much and your missile would lose it's energy before it reaches them. More specifics might help me understand.

[@matthewrogers8407]

Jabbers Just reiterating some of the physics of your tutorial- the greater the altitude differential in your favor relative to bogey, the less energy your missile will use, and the higher your airspeed the more energy your missile has out of the gate, both of which give more effective range. Your higher level physics, which involves thinking about the relative energy of your and your bogey's missiles is much more interesting. I cannot wait to get home and see whether this approach will allow my S50 to down an AMRAAM equipped F15. Thank you for the video.

[@Jabbers]

+MATTHEW ROGERS well if it helps I down them all the time :) more on this subject in another format kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZ-XqaGJeLiVmbs

[@cmibm6022]

Very good!!!

Thanks for this video mate! Can you do more stuff like this?

[@Jabbers]

+András Csányi workin on it

That is awesome! :) Where did you find these information? Is there a textbook for this?

[@sebywest3736]

exellent,tnx for info 🤗👌👍

[@seinfeld11123]

further HUD symbology information to help you. bottom right R is the range to target at the time you fired you were 14 miles underneath that is M that is the PREDICTED missile flight time in seconds it was obscured but 6-8 second flight time different to that is the maximum missile energy so when you fired the missile was calculated to take. the left when you get a countdown of T and M which is missile total energy time and pitbull time

[@BSeitenGaming]

Nice Video, thanks! In combination with tacview this video helped me alot. What if you had fired a AIM7, is it the same? And what if he flew the same maneuver?

[@Jabbers]

Hah not something easy to answer, assuming you both missed but kept lock you would start all over at a closer distance. If you both had semi actives, first one to hit wins, since the other missile has no more guidance from the burning wreck of an airplane

[@MrCarvion]

hey Jabbers! again thank you. can you do a tutorial about proper ECM use? when to use it? how to use it? offensive or defensive?

[@Jabbers]

+MrCarvion not much to show, ECM doesn't really work like it should in dcs. The only reason you would wanna use it is if you know an a2a badit already sees you and you want to hide your location outside of 20 miles. Or you are gettting locked by ground units and want to decrease the range they can fire on you at.

[@MasterDwarf]

Great!

[@kazansky22]

Can you do a video like this with the SU-27 w/ R27s vs F-15 with Aim120s, and also J11 w/ R77 vs F-15 with Aim120s?

[@falcos]

Nice video! -=RvE=Toast

[@muf]

noice.

[@reddoghunterboyrdhb284]

Bedankt

[@1400740]

Awesome tips. Can you please make a tutorial on some dog fight skills with M2k? Thank you

[@Jabbers]

Dog fighting in general I think is a good topic, but not specific to a plane, all BFM's AFM's apply to the planes themselves, the only thing that could be pointed out is each planes strengths and weaknesses. Ill write this one down as a topic of discussion and see what I can do!

[@1400740]

Thank you so much. Even a general guide on dog fight skills will be an asset.

[@alexlau7115]

total newbie here, wondering if it would make sense for bandit to turn into you instead of turning away? in that way he keeps his lock on you and perhaps force you to keep turning right so you lost lock on him? In worst case you keep turning into each other he will still hit you first (because he fired first) and since you are gone will your missile be dead as well?

[@Jabbers]

I should redo this because I included 2 concepts in1 and feel it’s confusing, the idea is you decrease your closure rate to the bandit while keeping lock you can effectively fire 2nd and still win in this case given the right parameters I suggest watching this debrief I did, there is a perfect example of this in there kzbin.info/www/bejne/oZ-XqaGJeLiVmbs

[@whclcdr]

Nice explanation! Just to clarify, you are shooting using an AIM-7 type Sparrow correct as well as the opponent using a similar AIM-7 Sparrow type correct? Reason is IF you were using AMRAAM, breaking lock would not be a concern

[@Jabbers]

+William Collins I used an amramm opponent uses a ER however your comment about not breaking a lock is only mostly right. Yes the amramm will go pit bull on target but that isn’t immediate, only the last couple miles. So it’s important to maintain lock till then.

[@ArtietheArchon]

there's a certain irony to your verbal mistake. on the VSD (radar scope) the vertical lines are 30 degrees apart, not 40, for a maximum of 60 degrees off the nose. Except in the real F-15 there is an expanded azimuth mode in single-target track which goes all the way to about 73 degrees, and the VSD display will change to accommodate this

[@tinglydingle]

By the way, you can see the range to the target you have locked in the bottom right of the HUD.

[@Jabbers]

Yes, were you referring to something in the video where range was a question?

[@tinglydingle]

6:37 you say "we are now within 14 miles or so, maybe a little bit less?" when it says 15.2 on the HUD just below where you were indicating

[@Jabbers]

Oh i see ya, guess i must have just missed that, I know its there but I never look at it though cause the actual distance is less relevant compared to the markers on the tape, but thanks for pointing it out for others, good thing to know. o7

[@jaystew8911]

Thats how the pros do it.

[@darkshadow7709]

Sir, I gotta real quick question, what would you recommend? DCS Steam or Standalone? I'm in a bit of trouble so suggestion would be appreciated. Awesome channel!

[@Jabbers]

standalone

[@darkshadow7709]

Oh thank you for the nice suggestion Sir, may your channel grow and live long for the hearts of DCS fans :)

[@crimsoninterceptor]

Great video and explanation! I just wish DCS got some better unclass numbers to work on when it comes to missile performance. 14 miles for BVR missiles is quite bad and far from reality. What I find amazing though, is the amount of knowledge combat sim communities have mustered.

[@sadekgheidan]

To mention something else important : At missile-release 6:59 you will notice on the bottom left on the HUD you will see two countdowns (in seconds) *blinking,* for example at 7:01: "T 7 17" T = Time until The first number, 7 in this case = Your missile still needs your F-15's radar to continue locking the bandit for 7 more seconds untill your missile goes "pitbull"~ In other words, in 7 seconds your missile won't require you to lock up the bandit anymore and it will still intercept the bandit just fine. Launching a 120 in TWS shouldn't change this (or am I wrong?). This is important to know because if you know "hey, in X seconds I don't need to keep my radar/nose near the bendit anylonger" means you can start planning on more aggressive manoeuvers to defeat bandit's incoming missile after your own slammer has gone pitbull. The second number, 17 in this case = Your missile is 17 seconds out from splashing (or missing) the enemy/bandit. Does someone know where the countdown or any other data is, regarding *incoming missiles*?

[@Jabbers]

There is no incoming missile countdown

[@ValueBreaker]

Hi, BMS V-Pilot here; Doesn't provide the F-15C a DLZ indication in the HUD like the F-16 does? - Or some sort of an indication that shows the calculated distance from ownship to target when the Aim-120 reaches *MPRF active radar stage/pitbull/M-Pole?(*all the same btw.) The shown number is a dynamic one, due to constantly maneuvers and possible post-launch maneuvers from target. Anyway, because, by knowing the DLZ, you got a good generally idea of the current energy state of the missile, before it's even launched. - For example; I know if I shoot at RPI "range probability of intercept", it's actually still possible to defeat my missile by simply flying in the opposite direction. If i shoot at RTR "range turn and run", even the fastest Jet in the world, can't outrun or deplete my missile's energy-state by dragging anymore. Just want to know, if such HUD indications are integrated in the F-15C module, or in any DCS model, anyway.

[@Jabbers]

There is a RPI, Range Probability Indicator. I talk about it at 3:26. It shows RPI, RMin, RMax. The lower left shows a countdown to pitbull after launch (can see at 7:03), and a countdown to predicated impact.

[@ValueBreaker]

Ah, alright, I see ;) Thank you!

[@ttvFairPlayerPL]

Keep the lockon target makes SU27 unusefull against F15/18s. In my opinion and experience it is much harder to fight against F15/18 in Su 27 than in F18/15 against su27. What do you think?

[@Jabbers]

Sure, Fox 3 fights are totally different, once they are active, turn around or notch. If you dont wanna turn around or notch, really you dont have a choice but to F-pole or jink to try and get their missile to lose energy. A lot of tactics come in to play in a 2 ship, but dcs players always just solo, which limits all your options

[@ttvFairPlayerPL]

@@Jabbers Today I have spent 3 h on single player 2F15 vs 2Su27, It is not big problem to lose AIM 120C on long distance, but on 10NM they track as devils even when I am low and they have been launched on quite high alt (so they should lose me due to ground radar noise but they do not). They track even on 90 deg aspect and on the ground looking. Really I am loosing my patience by flying PVP vs F15/18 with Su27 :(.

[@Jabbers]

Missiles hot an update yesterday so I'd have to try, but aim120 should be fairly deadly in close

[@amanuense]

question, how do you defend against this kind of maneuvers?

[@Jabbers]

amanuense you could do the same and end up in a merge, then that's a whole other topic of discussion. Defense is always tough and usually a judgement call, maybe I can make a follow up video showing something about what happens when both ships use this

[@amanuense]

Jabbers ok, I'll sit and wait for it :)

[@SuperSjoerd]

but how do you know the enemy has semi-active missile?

[@Jabbers]

Know your enemy :)

[@SuperSjoerd]

@@Jabbers haha I guess! Thanks

[@foxdieEU]

Its been a while since I last played DCS (it was still lockon then) but I think we used to call this "beaming" back then. I don't understand though why his missile never went active? you were in range and well within the missiles cone of influence.

[@Jabbers]

+foxdieEU beaming is different, beaming is notching I have a delegate video for that. His missile didn't go active because his was a semi active missile

[@foxdieEU]

But doesn't semi-active mean initial guidance is provided by the plane. After which targeting transfers to internal radar? again its been over a decade since i last played it, but on the su-27 (which i used to drive) isn't there a little pi symbol that comes up once the missile goes active i seem to remember, because that was your trigger to start running away.

[@Jabbers]

+foxdieEU no semi active means they require the planes radar for guidance, active missiles on the other had do what you are describing. The only 2 planes in dcs right now that have active missiles are the f15 (aim-120) and the mig29 but I forget the missile name

[@foxdieEU]

Well thank you for teaching me something. I always assumed it was as I stated. I'll have to re-install lomac and put my new found knowledge to use.

[@wantdatcadpat44]

Jabbers mig-29´s active Kissel is the r-77, beast ;)

[@comradeboris2335]

how do you get the f15 tho?

[@Jabbers]

huh?

[@comradeboris2335]

i mean how do you get the f15? is it in test or do you need to buy the campaign to get it?

[@comradeboris2335]

oh sorry i didnt look at the dcs page, only the steam page :p

[@Lb8068]

Having a really hard time applying this to the F-18’s Sparrows :(

[@Jabbers]

Either the f18 radar isn’t fully functional, or it’s more realistic than the f18, I don’t know which

[@Jabbers]

F15*

[@Lb8068]

Jabbers i hope it’s the former because I’ll never be able to deal with it 😪

[@MarkShawMedia]

Too bad there wasn't a way to get that split view up in real time during training practice. It can be hard to visualize bvr dynamics without the map view.

[@Jabbers]

Tacview can be setup to work in real-time if the server allows it.

[@scarecrow_9895]

Soon as I see someone doing this to me I turn into them. They turn right I turn left. They turn left I turn right.

[@rex669]

F15 is OP

[@Jabbers]

general misconception.

[@SDsc0rch]

expl"A"nation

[@Jabbers]

Hah, thanks!

[@silentone11111111]

Great vid :) AMRAM is so pay to win. lol. When your up against enemies with SAHR missiles it isnt even vaguely fair. I know war isnt fair , but this is a game and it looks too much like seal clubbing a lot of the time. :)

[@Jabbers]

I’d say yes and no, I fly the 27 fairly often without actives and there are plenty of tactics you can use to get around the amraam

[@konstantinkonov]

What I understood from the video: r27 stupid, aim120 smart

[@flayling7221]

None of those tutorials describe what to do when you missile doesn’t hit.

[@Jabbers]

Turn back in and try again

[@Jabbers]

Or egress for a more advantageous position, tactics are hard sometimes because they take experience

[@flayling7221]

Jabbers yea and thats what I am missing... I mostly do stuff right in fights but I do it instinctively without really making a decision and thats why it’s so hard for me to adapt to new tactics.

[@Jabbers]

Agreed, its all about SA, and thats probably one of the hardest things to get good at all the time

[@flayling7221]

Jabbers but thx anyways I had great success using the maneuver as far as i can. ;)

[@TheCraigHudson]

What a dirty little Maneuver next question how do you defend against an f-pole if your adversary is utilizing it do you yourself do it also? Anyone else realizes as of August 1 f18c has aim 120bs now

[@Jabbers]

Typically if no one goes defensive, the person with the larger F-Pole will win. But should you decide you want to go defensive, you should notch and hope to god you can turn back in and get a missile off before he does. Typically if you end up defending and notching in DCS the other person is going to start spamming missiles, so you better be good at notching, and you basically notch till you get within visual range and it becomes a dogfight.

[@ferganiscan7214]

dude are you a pilot or something

[@Jabbers]

+Fergan İşcan not a pilot, I do have some friends /family that are but mostly just a fam of combat sims

[@cmdrTremyss]

I'm here to learn War Thunder :3

[@Jabbers]

You came to the right place, that's literally all we play and have videos for.

[@melc311]

You're very quiet. I can't hear you.

[@Jabbers]

First video I ever made haha sorry

[@Batmack]

Best thing is you never break the lock, you would have killed the Sukhoi anyways if you had shot an Sparrow

[@Jabbers]

Ya that’s the point

[@user-sn7pn7gk5z]

예수는 십자가에서 사탄의 권세를 깨뜨리고 부활하신 그리스도입니다. 당신이 예수를 믿고 영접하면 사탄의 권세와 운명에서 영원히 해방받고 하나님의 자녀가 됩니다. 천국의 모든 축복을 받아 누리게 될 것입니다. 예수를 믿고 영접하세요.

[@Guy_6397]

Great explanation but you need to spend less time paused, it was really frustrating, don't forget that your viewers have pause buttons too.

[@Guy_6397]

However, not hating on you, this was a useful video, thanks!

[@Jabbers]

No worries man, i got carried away on some of those comments, noted for next time, and thanks for the feedback! Hard sometimes because i have a lot to explain and want to draw to show those explinations