DCS: The F-Pole Maneuver Vs Multiple Targets. (R-77 Adder)

Ok so in the last video you guys were wondering if the Fpole would work against multiple threats and I'm here to report that with a few adjustments I made it work. In this video I show you how I did it.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

So the reason I use the F15 in this video is because it has TWS mode for multiple target lock. If you're using the hornet in its current early access build with no TWS mode for the radar you will die lol. That being said, I just wanted to say, I'm no expert and I'm simply posting different ideas and tactics I've used that I have found are successful. I'm also not saying real pilots do this nor would I ever recommenced something in a real life situation. This video is focused on DCS and the flight models there-in. Hope you guys enjoy the video.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

100%. it would be a joke if it didnt. its just a WIP right now.

[@chillmothafuka]

Couldn't you just fire the AMRAAMs in visual mode if you got within say 15 miles?

[@bharatsharma3233]

Good video GS. I have lately started watching your videos and enjoy them thoroughly. I especially love the use of TacView for analysis post flight However, a short discussion... (I come from the Red camp) The situation you played here, had AI MiGs with R-77s (we know about the missile flight models, etc. so I won't go there). Perhaps evening out the competition (vs same aircraft and missiles ... which may happen in the future lest ED come out with modern RED platforms) would help showcase the importance of good tactics / BVR manoeuvres (such as your video against the F-14, which had you beaming & evading the missiles until he was in range). Also, as is the case in many tournaments / server limitations, you may have to rely only on SARH missiles, even in a BLUEFOR aircraft. In such a situation, we can't just turn around and be safe; we snake and maintain radar lock. And if your opponent also employs good tactics, you guys will meet in the WVR combat regime... which is what we mostly see online. What are your thoughts on this?

[@markstanton9620]

Great evolution of your BVR tactics in the last few videos. Speed and distance and angles, you have nailed the recipe for BVR success. What I would like to see you attempt now is to take that same F-15C, equip it with 6 aamrams and 2 sidewinders and cannon, take it to its service ceiling, ~60,000 ft and take on 3 Iranian Tomcats with their usual configuration of 2 Phoenix, 2 sparrow and 2 sidewinders and cannon at their service ceiling. The F100 is better than the TF30 at altitude so that will help you. If you can successfully find a way to take them all out without dying you will be a true fighter pilot ace, at least digitally. Good luck if you attempt this and even show unsuccessful attempts if they show important lessons. p.s. what AI difficulty level do you use ?

[@markstanton9620]

@@19Koty96 , Mig-31 is very under appreciated probably the best pure interceptor/missile combination since Tomcat/Phoenix but without the maneuverability, 5g limit, but extra speed. Pair it up with Flanker escorts and that is a mean combination. You would need stealthy aircraft like F-22/F-35 to take away its first look first shoot advantage.

[@TheBrewjo]

And, the bonus of launching those six missiles, that's 912 kg / 2010 lbs you throw off the aircraft before it has to carry you through the apex of the turn, which makes it easier for the engines to keep the mach+ speeds to drive you out of the reach of enemy missiles.

[@EvidenceandReasons]

"We'll kick their butts because of F-Pole." That's what an F/A-18 pilot told me back in 1994. I really didn't understand what F-pole was since I was a civilian defense contractor working with that pilot on air-to-ground technology. But now I understand. WOW. Thanks for the video!

[@TrionityIr]

The way to defeat this maneuver (if you are the MiG) is to fire a second volley of missile as soon as he turns away from the 45 deg right offset (that is right here 4:30) and is breaking towards you or to his left. Because you (the MiG) should know he has to evade the first missile. Keep your heading straight--watching him turn against your first missile--and when he turns hard left to evade that first, you fire another. Distance would be close and missile will have energy to not miss. Danger is he might get a good lock solution on you. So break hard and down once you fire, kicking out flares and chaffs. In this vid, the two other MiGs to the right, fire too early at 4:30

[@user-tv9kn5ip8x]

What Zit Tooya Exactly, thats also the way to do in SARH-only fighters. But only 1 opponent at a time. Its like the one who reaches out the effective spear first win a duel.

[@VBsepheroth888]

I loved the in depth explanation for these maneuvers it was very interesting to watch! I've never heard of this maneuver before and I love the fact that it plays on the missiles tracking to get it to play itself out. Thanks for the videos keep it up!

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Flarg thanks very much glad u enjoyed it

[@HappyFlapps]

Dude! Now the Russian and Chinese DCS pilots will know our tactics! : p

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

theyre no match for our amraams brother. don't you worry.

[@TheGranicd]

Growling Sidewinder As long as they fire single missile and fly straight :)

[@MaxWaldorf]

That is called SPAMRAAM... :) Honestly, 3 targets, 3 missiles... You need to keep ammo in case you need to recommit... Cheers

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

absolutely right. I just wanted to prove a point :-)

[@b0bl00i]

Slick flying! Need to practice that when I get back home.

[@moshoyoko2480]

Nice GS! Gr8 stuff as always!, more plz :)

[@user-yg3yn2zz5w]

great video as always. btw there should be a delay of sound of explosion as sound has much slower travel than light (perhaps it's at least 5 seconds judging by the distance)... the only thing that feels weird in these superb videos. look forward to the next one.

[@froggystvkw7603]

Awesome, as usual. Good job again. Merci dude.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

thanks brother. glad u enjoyed it.

[@therealcharliesix7126]

Nice work man. Always love your vids.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

thanks man

[@MrSpike2450]

Thanks, nice vid, love the external pops as the missiles hit home, 😁 hopefully the F18 will have a competent TWS.

[@vsweatbuild1161]

thanks, I think this seems like a good move as well even if one/two fighters as they could also try to fire multiple missiles

[@Louis5270]

This Tactics is pretty brilliant

[@wesleysugalski2842]

WOW ! 3x Mig-29...……….That was Super Maneuver Buddy, it is not easy take out Mig-29 and you did vv well job. Thanks for the video.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Wesley Sugalski thanks Wesley. Always a pleasure to find u in the comment section.

[@madingahmar4420]

Growling sidewinder, I don’t know much about fighter aircraft and all that. But, I love the mix of detail and eye candy. Love your videos 😁😁😁

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

thanks a lot, I appreciate that very much. glad u like the content.

[@madingahmar4420]

Growling Sidewinder I’m not pushing you, but I really hope you continue to upload videos and more people get to know you. 😅😅😅

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

well, I appreciate that very much. I have no intention of stopping now. thanks for your good wishes for the channel. I hope to not disappoint in the future.

[@NefariousKoel]

When I fly as a MiG-29 (pvp), I started carrying a mixed load of ERs and R-77s. Would fire an ER for the first missile exchange since it has much longer effective range, and save the 77s for the closer follow-up shots. So still F-poling with the SARH, like a Su-27, for awhile before getting in close with the shorter ranged R-77s (shorter than AMRAAM too)

[@nishitdronographer718]

Very realistic moves and flight analytics dead accurate great job

[@headout3116]

Good job man. You're quality is top notch. Love the overview of what happened at the eggs of each video. You should do some multiplayer.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

most deff thats a work in progress. im on there a decent amount just nothing video worthy tbh

[@headout3116]

Well maybe some day. Lookibg forward to it

[@holtdunham3049]

Great tactics man. This will definately help in missions against AI at least. Thanks for putting it together.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Holtman Dunham ur very welcome man. Gonna test it against people soon. See if it's any good

[@holtdunham3049]

@@GrowlingSidewinder Sounds cool

[@KaDaJxClonE]

Damn! Ace in a day maneuver there.

[@cajunvoodoo5930]

hey, just wanted to ask something about the f-15c and other aircraft like it. as an F-15C player how hard would it be to transition to the F/A-18C from the F-15C. i was looking at your gameplay and at the steam page and it all looks so nice. how do you recommend it?

[@kurtbenner8095]

God I love these videos

[@gunlovingliberal1706]

I am glad I learned about Tacview from your videos. Without it you eat lots of missiles. and you don't know what you did wrong. Now I can take on AI aircraft and have a high success percentage. Also as you point out in this video, running away is a good strategy especially when you are outnumbered.

[@recon17]

Nice video and neat kills as always.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Riddle 14 thanks buddy glad u enjoyed it

[@mark82101]

"And how to dodge an Amraam if I am in a RED plane?" "Simple, just pull the eject handle!"

[@dcsworldphilippinesrunner6041]

simple, Hope to God you were on an F15 and go full cold after doing some insane G turns

[@AIMBOTKATFISH]

Did the dive have the added benefit of notching compounding the effect of your chaff?? In tacview it looks like the missiles are at your beam and at a higher altitude. Would that mask your fighter on radar relative to the horizon?

[@shapiro5000]

I like the F-15C Eagle.. it's 100% air to air but still pretty damn good at it. Has a lot more power than any other aircraft.. at least when you drop the tanks. Also, it's such a great AMRAAM carrier :). The AMRAAM is just great missile.. And since the Hornet, it seems the AMRAAM has received tweaks that make it even more powerful, either that or I'm more intelligently firing them.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Jeff Shapiro I've also noticed the amraams are more deadly. I thought I was just mistaken tho. I don't know. I might have gotten better at DCS and in getting more kills so I feel like the amraams got an update lol I don't know.

[@dev0random]

Try doing the same thing against an F-15, we can compare the difference. Curious what would happen.

[@shapiro5000]

/dev/random he’d probably defeat the first wave of missiles and turn in to shoot in a similar manner. The problem would be they’d both be shooting AMRAAM that would also go pitbull. Mutual kill would be more likely. With ECM and chaff and turning out full burners he may dodge but it’s harder. It’ll be 3 missiles or more.

[@dev0random]

Probably. I don't think this would work with a human MiG-29 pilot. The airframe I believe is still broken on the MiG-29 where we can pull 100G turns and go Mach 2+ straight to the moon.

[@shapiro5000]

/dev/random since the flight models broken, suggest comparing to the J-11 version of the Flanker - also has R-77 and can carry 27 Er/ET and DECM pods The mig-29 flight model is poor and hope it’s fixed some day but the flight model of the flanker appears to be excellent. This makes the mig-29 somewhat of a cheat except for the fact that it runs out of gas in 3 mins

[@BlueBaron3x7]

Very good flying :)

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

thank you very much.

[@Skyfaller2010]

Just badass wicked. Hope I never meet you in combat

[@EthanAdey]

Good idea

[@RomeoJulietWhiskey]

Wouldn't having after burner on reduce your f-pole since it's increasing your closure rate on the bandits? I would have thought you want to be on the high side of corner speed, crank hard, shoot and then full afterburner during the disengage.

[@Avera9eWh1teShark6]

What were to happen if instead of turning and burning after firing your missiles, you barrel rolled left out of the F-pole into a right turn to continue engaging?

[@kenhelmers2603]

Sweet!

[@DanielLanducciAirplaneSpotter]

BTW, 4k huh!! You're on fire, dude!

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

can't believe it myself man. the supports been amazing. the channel is already 4k subs bigger than I ever thought it would be.

[@rdreyes6860]

im just curious. what"s the maximum scan angle for ACs in DCS that you're complaining about the Bug not being able to maintain lock past 45. is this a legacy bug or an SH? Thanks.

[@zolikoff]

Ok, but gotta admit those R77s feel like they're flying through honey rather than air :)

[@panjiprivan7134]

After watching a lot of your videos it came up with 3 key words: F pole, AMRAAM, & Sukhoi maneuverability. Can you combine all of them to be unbeatable GS? 🤔

[@SPFLDAngler]

Daaaaaammmmnnnnn... That external view...

[@mattfairfield9103]

Hey G.S, why is it called the F-pole? Just curious. Badass video man haha “amraams for everyone” xD hahaha

[@pierrebroccoli.9396]

I can see the attractiveness of online flying here as those 3 Migs were very static in their engagement compared to you a lone F15. The AI seems to be quite limited in tactics but if they have numerical superiority, they can be a handful. I'm still learning the ins and outs and mapping my HOTAS LOL but - Those Migs should have fanned out and really given you a good run for your money. They didn't seem to do anything to defend against your AMRAAM salvo. Also as a F15 pilot, you would never be flying into combat solo. All sides know the importance of team work and now days it is more shoulder fired Inf AA that is an issue like in East Ukraine or deliberate traps like was seen in Syria a few years ago with the downing of the Su25 where the flight path was known to the perps before hand. Not long ago a retired Finnish Air Force Commander stated that aircraft are pretty much redundant on a modern battle field. Hakkapeliitta ))

[@rier103]

Good tactics. I only wonder why those Migs are not maneuvering on the incoming Amraams? And the R77 is an active missile right? So how come you get a missile launch warning in the cockpit as soon as the missile comes off the rail? I would expect the missile warning to come on at the time the missile goes active after a certain time of flight?

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Vapes ok so I think the reason u don't see too much defensive mouvment from the migs I think is cuz I had them locked on TWS so no wanring for them until the missile goes active and when it goes active it's at like mach2 so they barely had reaction time. As for why I get the missile warning, (and this is a guess) the R77 goes active much sooner than amraams? Or it could be related to the AI locking me up in STT. That's my guess.

[@spc83]

Question: since you have lock in the crank, why dont you fire then crank to 45 degrees and use the AMRAAMs range to its max? That'll give you radar support for the missile while decreasing your closure rate

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

I hope I'm answering ur question here, I'm not too clear on what ur asking brother but, the reason I don't care about radar support is at that range, the amraams are more than capable of hitting their targets without my radar assistance. i'm fully understanding the part about the "amraams range to the max"

[@spc83]

nope you answered my question. I think I was getting a few of the Blank-Poles mixed up

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

SPC 83 ok awesome.

[@LukaszNawrocki]

Hi. Super video. I have one question: I fly with MIG29. Why to fire missile r-77 I get permission to shoot only at 10-12km? I should be able to shoot at a much longer distance, is not it?

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

hi man thanks, the closer you fire the higher ur probability of kill, any missile fired at its max or close to max range will be very easy to defeat

[@LukaszNawrocki]

Ok, but if his range is to 50 km, why have I permission « LA » on my HUD only at 10-12 and not for example 20-25km? Thank you for your answer and your super videos.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

my pleasure, if you fire your missile at a long range target thats a big and slow target like lets say a big bomber or transport or something big, it wont be able to defeat the missile as easily as a small agile fighter. so its telling you that you have launch authorization but thats up to pilot discretion to decide when he actually wants to release the missile. sometimes you can fire from a far distance just to force the guy defensive but any competent pilot will easily defeat that missile. thats why we have different missile ranges displayed on the hud on almost any plane, you have a max range , a range no escape and a minimum range. I would recommend always firing inside the range no escape envelope. if youre going to fire outside of that range, understand the purpose of the missile is to force a defensive maneuver and to not actually have expectations of it hitting. as hes defensive use that time to push closer and hit him with another missile inside the range no escape envelope.

[@katumus]

@@LukaszNawrocki Your launch speed and altitude, and then target altitude and speed, and your two angle relative to each others are factors that change when you can launch a missile. If you are up in the altitude, you can launch further because there is less air (less drag) to slow down the missile, but same time less maneuverability for missile and target (but target has larger wings so it can maneuver more easily). And then opposite if at low altitude, more drag so shorter range but same time more turning capability for both. The launch platform speed is mattering factor as well. A Su-27S and Mig-29S can both fly over Mach and launch missile, while aircrafts like F/A-18C can't at all accelerate to those speeds. Launching missile at faster speed is extra speed for the missile, so it is capable accelerate even higher speed and so on reach further distances, but it lose its maneuverability then if reaching target at too high speed. The optimal situation for launching is that you are sitting at higher altitude and flying at higher speed, then launching a missile on target that is flying at lower altitude and slower speed is underdog because you have much further launch authority for the missile speed to be optimal for high G maneuver at the target. The longer range for the missile launching is that the missile doesn't need to fight against gravity, but it can just glide downward, why last thing you really want to do as an target is to put nose down and go under missile, as doing so gives longer sustainable speed for missile, and dragging missile to lower altitude means denser air and so on better maneuverability for it to intercept you at high G maneuver avoiding the missile. This is example why AIM-54 and AIM-120 are so deadly for, that you can loft the missile so it will raise at high altitude, fly to target direction and then in the end game start the dive toward the target while its speed is maintained (longer range) and its maneuverability increase in denser air. This is the problem why R-27ET has shorter range than ER model, because ER will take the intercept point and lofting route as well if so made, while ET model doesn't and will fly straight course, but that is again a difference that you can't pull same kind maneuvers for ET model like you can do for ER model, as the ER model is calculating new intercept point where to fly based your new heading etc, the ET model will come straight at you regardless where you would be in the future and doesn't intercept you. Why if enemy launch a ET and then ER, makes a huge difference as you can't really out maneuver the missile, if you try to maneuver ER, the ET will catch you. If you try to outrun ET, the ER will intercept you. And you can't notch the ET version as it doesn't care from anything else than your hot nozzles and your hot wing edges and noze, while you can try to notch ER, but doing so will slow you down for the ET. Countering a R and T missiles is not about knowing should you chaff or flare, but it is about maneuvers. Only real thing you can try at that point is to run and release chaff and flare as much you can to get them between you and the missiles. In other words, you just have been beaten from your mission as you ran away.

[@paulgouband1739]

Hi GS, I usually find your videos interesting but I find this one quiet irrelevant as the geometry of the engagement (same altitude and head on) just turn the 1v3 into a 1v1. Also, it is quiet irrealistic as I if I am at the head of 3 ship flight I would have sent my wingmen at different altitudes and headings To bracket you 😉 but beside this Nice editing and camera shots as usual 😁

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

fair enough buddy, every tool is for a specific job right, if someone is flanking you, you can't use this strategy, gotta use something else. thanks tho I'm glad you at least enjoyed the camera shots haha

[@paulgouband1739]

But I will enjoy To watch a video where you deal with this kind of thread

[@paulgouband1739]

And if you need someone to play aggressor for a video just ask, it could take the tactical part to a new level compare To ia 😉

[@billzebob1637]

You mean saving the amraams in case I'm losing the 3 v 1 gunfight is the wrong approach?

[@jefflucas_life]

I was Mach something at 589KN, the B Box was saying OVER G , OVER G and my vision blacked out at 10K ft, I had to press ALT + J to recover. What do I need to do so I don't black out at 45* banking? Still using keyboard, 1600om not here yet. Btw, fast gun fighter! Who needs F22. LOL.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

using the keyboard is ur main issue, I had that problem big time before I committed srsly to DCS and got a joystick. I don't know WHY its that way, but whenever I use to turn with the keyboards my head would want to explode from the constant OVERG OVERG OVERG but with the joystick I've almost forgotten what that sounds like.

[@itdepends8103]

3:00 man !! Nice killS

[@jcason6295]

Never clicked so fast!

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

one of the biggest supporters here. I'll always appreciate it brother. Hope you enjoyed it.

[@jcason6295]

@@GrowlingSidewinder You got it man. Love your videos, I enjoy seeing and learning tactics!

[@rumi_137]

Anyone can explain how he lock three targets at the same time and make the missiles hit each one of them? Whats the key or how it is called in the options to active it? thanks.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

The Matador hi there, get multiple target lock is a function of the TWS radar u can switch to it by pressing "RAlt+I" lock multiple targets and then simply fire all amraams. The plane will automatically cycle between targets in the sequence they were locked.

[@asmallturtle9489]

i need help, when i lose target at around 30 miles when i f pole, i am having hard time trying to lock him when i turn into him and hes 20 miles in front of me. Is there a target mode i may not be using?

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

a small turtle are u using the hornet or the f15?

[@asmallturtle9489]

im using f-18

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Given the locking issues of the f18 in early access I don't recommend it for the fpole, BUT, when I do it, I use the amraams ACM bore sight mode to require the dropped lock.

[@asmallturtle9489]

okies thank you, my radar since after patch been acting funny its flickering sometimes when i use auto lock

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

a small turtle ya no worries mate happy to help I'm sure they'll fix it in the next patch.

[@vivasoccer10]

what kind of joystick do you use?

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

thrustmaster 16000M

[@thomaszhang3101]

5:06 Freedom for everyone!

[@M-28xD]

I really wish they put F15 Strike Eagle instead of the old F15 and the Newer F18E instead of F18C. More payload, more capability and easier to use due to newer technology.

[@neerajarora5330]

Fair enough. What if all the three fire at almost the same time. 2.what if they use multiple missiles just like you??

[@SpearHead1011]

Do you use the same concept for surface to air?

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

SpearHead1011 negative. I'll be looking into making a video about that soon.

[@wanhapatu]

Interesting vids but you really need a quieter mouse!

[@herisson15]

will the same work against F-14 (as opposed to Notching). Thanks

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

herisson15 I plan on trying that very soon.

[@audunskilbrei8279]

I'm only speculating here. But if we consider the phoenix missile fired at similar ranges as these r-77 missiles. The r-77 missiles engines only burn for about 10 secs. After that they are gliding. So when you turn like GS did in this video they will lose their energy. The engine in the phoenix will burn for around 60 seconds I believe. So it would still be burning when it hits you from that range. This would make this f-pole manouver far less effective since the missile could regain the speed lost in the turn. I think you will be dead against an f-14 like this. It will be interesting to see how it plays out when we get it.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Audun Skilbrei that's my thoughts exactly. I'll test it in time and when the real tomcat comes out but my guess is that the F-Pole will be ineffective against he aim54 for exactly the reasons stated above.

[@NoNameAtAll2]

Main question I have now is what to do if enemy doesn't fire far enough to do this turn safely?

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

than dont do this lolol.

[@NoNameAtAll2]

@@GrowlingSidewinder I asked *what* to do

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

I dont know man, theres a hundred options at that point, I personally, would give him an amraam or 2 to put him defensive, and find a way to close quickly and make it a knife fight. use the new aim9x on him. so once you leave amraam range, ur no longer trying to reduce closure rate, u want to increase it. keep tight with him and don't give him room to get off another shot.

[@patricksawyer9779]

Okay, that's pretty damn slick. But that's against an AI. How's it fare in human vs human, i.e. against another player?

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

I plan to test it against a human pilot as soon as possible.

[@chillmothafuka]

Can I volunteer as tribute?

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

u wonna get F-Poled bruh?

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

ahaha

[@patricksawyer9779]

Okay, I've also given some thought to another test... How well would it work against, say, the IR-guided version of the R-71?

[@gafrancisco]

The way you split left is the right way ... the su-27 in the last video should done that ... the migs .... launch chaff and stay on path ... god going russians ... by the way ... formations today dont play out like that ... in a single boggie situation one of the migs should split right or left ... and another should be the wing man of the third ... because is allot harder to a single boogie fight 3 jets in different paths ...

[@mattdill8090]

Can you do an F14 vs an su35

[@Falcon_Verse]

What about again pvp? They would shoot you in TWS. You will only get warning after pitbull.... Plz guide

[@robertdobbs5346]

im glad he's on my side lol

[@TLTeo]

Wouldn't it make more sense to fire 3 AMRAAMs in that spot instead of all 6? You are firing at pretty much the same time so the Pk won't increase much with a second salvo, and if you have 3 left you're more deadly should you decide to re-engage.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Matteo 100% I fired all six to prove a point. In reality that would be a major waste of amraams.

[@tOnmey]

Facing a single jet with multi-tracking/attacking ability, you should crank to different directions, get out of his (F15’s) gimbal range first so that you are not tracked simultaneously.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

whats stopping him from just cranking to keep you in his gimbal ? cranking to gimbal limit is intended to defeat incoming missiles forcing them to turn and bleed energy while still providing track data to ur own missile.

[@tOnmey]

Growling Sidewinder Here, cranking to different directions to bleed the energy of any coming missiles is a minor point. The bigger point is to get the two targets far apart enough so that TWS cannot lock on the two targets at the same time. Basically flanking you from two opposite directions.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

@@tOnmey I see what ur saying splitting the element is risky, it creates a situation where 1 bandit can be engaged in a 1v1 and the other is too far away to support. it has to be done very very carefully to have the effect ur intending and communication has to be high and timing precise. its much harder to execute in DCS than it seems. although u are correct that it would work if done correctly.

[@tOnmey]

@@GrowlingSidewinder True. This definitely requires some team training.

[@antsolja]

i wanna see what it looks like when both side fpole, seems like thats what should really happen

[@FalcoGer]

next up! How to defeat fpole

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

FalcoGer haha as soon as I figure it out

Energy is not the same thing as speed. You don’t gain energy in a dive. Energy is speed plus altitude. You have a certain ammount of energy. Whithin it you can exchange altitude for speed or you can point the nose up to trade speed for altitude. What kills off energy however, is sharp turns for example. What builds more energy, is your engines over time.

[@A_Man_Named_Mark]

Negative kimosabi... well, at least your explanation is. There are two kinds of energy, kinetic and potential. Altitude + V= Potential Energy. However when you nose down, you gain V, which means your transfering potential energy (what you COULD use), into kinetic energy (which is what WILL kill an enemy). So, yes, you do gain actual energy, you just lose the potential for more energy to be gained. In a perfect kill, you would want absolutely no potential energy left in your mass, having all been transfered to kinetic to kill the enemy. This of course never happens, as 0 potential energy would be impossible to achieve with anything that has mass. How I know this.... I'm an engineer.

[@suresh0t478]

AMRAAMS for everyone.

[@andrewcapone3345]

AMRAAMS for everyone! lol

[@taylorrichardson2793]

Were you a former fighter pilot?

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

no I am not, never was. i'm just a dude who plays DCS and has a youtube channel.

[@kalonji64]

ya didn't wait for pitbull before going away ?! Thought Amraams were semi-active until pitbull and then went active... At least it's as it's in Falcon BMS :/ Maybe I'm wrong though, I have DCS modules for years but just came back to it a few days ago after I bought Mirage 2000C and Persian Gulf Terrain :) Thanks for you videos anyway, good things to learn and apply in air combat here :D John "Kalon"

[@kalonji64]

btw I forgot to ask : do you have something in common with Glowing Amraam ?! XD

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

Ur correct that amraams are semi active until they go pitbull, so there are 2 conditions under which they will go pitbull. 1. they reached the correct range and they go pitbull. 2. they loose the lock from the launch aircraft and automatically go pitbull. however if this happens before the ideal range it does reduce probably of kill. but yes I'm glad you enjoyed the video and no lol i have no relation to glowing amraam but its funny cuz more and more people are asking me that lol.

[@kalonji64]

hehe well your nickname sounds like it so I had to ask ;) and know you tell me of course your amraams went active, you launched it at about 12-15nm directly in front of the migs and lauched 2 for each enemy plane... really good manoeuver, I'll remember that :) hopefully you were alone and there were no allies in front... many frat kills with maddog amraams in fierce battles ;) thanks again for that trick, back to practice lol John "Kalon"

[@kalonji64]

Oh and last question mate, do you have a link for those shiny sandy F-15 and iranian F-14 models please ?! Would love to import those in my JGSME mods folder ;)

[@damsonn]

In real life you would not get launch warning so early, only when the missiles go active (R-77 is ARH) In which case you would be dead. Also what with those edited-in splash noises at 3:00? It looks really unrealistic. DCS World models pretty well speed of sound. But considering odd implementation of ARH missiles going active as soon as they leave the rail, still it's pretty good BVR tactic.

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

damsonn u will get launch notification if missile is fired in STT or if lock is broken prior to pitbull TWS is how u get the missile to come off the rail without giving launch notification

[@damsonn]

@@GrowlingSidewinder Why would you launch ARH missile in STT mode. Isn't the best tactic to warn your enemy at the last possible moment that there is a missile coming at him?

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

damsonn I don't know why u would I'm just saying

[@DanielLanducciAirplaneSpotter]

Hahaha, man, I don't know what write here... this is a brilliant maneuver! I'm waaaaay far from your technique. Superb job, buddy!

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

its easy brother you can master it in a day or two. give it try. Thanks as always for ur support man. ur the man.

[@DanielLanducciAirplaneSpotter]

I'm watching the video where you explain how to drop the MK82 Snakeye correctly. I made two pass over my targets (a tank line) now and in the second pass I had a huge progress (for me, haha)! Could understand how to maintain the aircraft horizontaly aligned and have the control and ability to drop the bombs with certain of success! I always will be a big fan of your channel and have the gratitude for your help, patience to explain and show us the best technique. You rock, buddy!

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

thank you brother, that means a lot to me. you guys have given a lot back to me in the form of ur support. we help each other out and I'm grateful for that. thanks again man.

[@GentiluomoStraniero]

AAMRAMs to the face even.

[@weltensegLA]

Good maneuvers but mislabeled imho. There is no F-pole before you fire a missile and with an active radar missile fired within E-pole you don't even even try to expand A-pole and definitely don't care about your F-pole. All good maneuvers but I think people may memorize inaccurate knowledge if you call it "F-pole maneuver" which I argue is not even a thing but rather a loosely used description of a maneuver that has a lot focus on extending your F-pole due to cranking. Other than that appreciate you helping out newcomers.

[@speelius]

If you want the present the effectiveness of F-pole against multiple targets go up against F-15s loaded with 120Cs(still AI which is stupid unfortunately but better representation of the maneuver itself). The R-77 is very weak.

[@Mandrak789]

What's wrong with R-77s?

[@speelius]

Low energy -> range, 120C is much better.

[@TheGranicd]

sajtoskifli Similar range, better at turning but bleeds speed more due to lattice design.

[@Mandrak789]

Interesting that the Russians don't have anything that can match Amraam. What's the story with R-37? Is that thing actually working?

[@katumus]

You mean like a Su-27S with 4x R-27ER, 2x R-27ET and 4x R-73 going against 3x F-15C, each with 6x AIM-120C and 2x AIM-9M, all at 5000m sea level, from 60km distance, F-15's supporting each others with good distance separation?

[@7r1p0d5]

one does not simply fire more than 2 missiles at once without going into a tactical anime max rate weeb roll. It's a legal obligation, I'll see you in court.

[@milans.637]

In real life this tactic is not imposible at all . They are not stuped to not go deffencive in a moment they got alarm for missile engagement.

[@firepower7017]

Why bother with a move if the French created a well more capable aircraft which to me is sad as I ain't admitting that the Dassault Rafale is better than the F-15. I mean it can definitely run circles around the F-22

[@bradcfi2]

Does the F Pole work against an AMRAM 120 since warning starts with Pitbull?

[@stargazer3300]

Been playing DCS for couple months now. It seems the Russian aircraft are completely overwhelmed by the American stuff. The AMRAAM makes a mockery out of the R-27ER, which basically can't track for shit. Even the R-77 is a joke compared to the AMRAAM, and the SU-27 cant carry it anyway lol. From what ive seen literally the only advantage to the SU-27 is possibly in a dogfight, and the R-73s are good to be fair, but the Eagle has you dead before you get to this stage. Or should I say the AMRAAM has you dead. I think im gonna park the SU-27 and just learn the American stuff from here on in!

[@stargazer3300]

And the way you can attack multiple targets with the F-15 as well, totally superior.

[@javiercalvo27]

Maneuver's name is CRANK.

[@danielpazosguinea]

Pfff, use human players or better AI, no way those migs will launch just 1 missile and then follow straight to eat those amraams. They didn't even perform a basic combat spread, come on! This video just shows how to exploit the dumb AI in head on combat, who seems to ignore the basic 3-9 manouver, pops flares to radar missiles and even launch (1) fox 3 missile in STT! This video should be redone from scratch. Even with just one mig-29s if you want.

[@rags417]

Seriously ? It's that easy ? So what is the counter to this maneuver and would the AI ever do it ? If not then it looks like you just killed the game :(

[@GrowlingSidewinder]

lol the counter is actually just as easy, if someone is doing it to you, push past their radar gimbal limits and force them to reduce the 45degree offset to keep u locked up increasing your missiles probability of kill. its not as easy as it looks. you should try and see.

[@katumus]

Easy, if there are three of you, each of you will take a actual separation, like 1500 meters above and 4000 meters behind, you will do the turns and launching in correct orders, covering each others all the time. The enemy can't do anything really as they don't have space, speed or time to do any maneuver or use any counter measurement as in any given position and time, there i 1-2 other fighters that has the missile coming in optimal angle. Going against three F-15C shooting AIM-120C is not difficult, very risky but not at all impossible, you just push toward at max speed, don't crank, don'g pull any F-pole, but just fly as much as possible straight at them, force them to separate and then sting like a bee on each of them. It is fairly easy to avoid 5-6 AIM-120C coming at you from 40-15km distance, but then next 7-8 ones are the difficult ones, as you are in the phone booth with them and you must get them suppressed, where the R-73 and R-27ET comes very handy as you have true fire and forget missiles.