Dead Game News: Early plans for stopping companies from destroying games

[@acomingextinction]

I'm a regulatory lawyer and my heart genuinely sings to hear your plea that people contact their consumer protection agencies and the like. I totally agree, it's a strategy that has worked in the past and can be a very efficient ways of taking action. Good on you, and let me know if you need a Canadian lawyer. I can't help directly - I'm in-house - but can put you in touch with people.

[@rustyshackleford1305]

Bumping this for visibility!

[@Varmint260]

Do you know what agency in Canada is best to contact on this? I'm googling "canadian consumer protection" and it looks like there's a lot of passing the buck between federal and provincial levels and nothing solidly suggesting it applies to this issue.

[@Trained_Duck]

Definitely send Ross an e-mail just in case. I forsee there being a lot of comments and this getting buried

[@Rune3D]

Bump!

[@legofanguyvid]

Bump

[@larcgrumbles9529]

The fact that Minecraft lets you host private servers is a huge oversight that surely wouldn't exist if it had been developed originally by its current owner.

[@bitnewt]

Mojang are awesome for keeping all of the old versions of the game easily available but it pains me how much monetisation Microsoft strapped to Bedrock/console/Windows edition - especially knowing that there are probably more impressionable players (i.e. kids) playing that version.

[@scrowfunk8109]

I can promise you not a single dev at Mojang enjoyed programming in all that shitty, predatory micro transaction bullshit but that’s the kind of thing that happens when you get bought out by a big company

[@Tomfissh]

​@bitnewt And theyre pretty small files so there are hundreds of people with archives of every version if the launcher ever disables previous versions

[@MazeFrame]

I wonder how much education it would take to turn "a server" into "just a computer" in average peoples minds... I would make arguing for not breaking products much easier!

[@DanielFerreira-ez8qd]

@@MazeFrame quite a lot. First you need to make people care about the computers in their lives, then you'll need to get them educated enough to remember that the only difference between a server, a console and a computer is the creator's purpose.

[@minimme]

This is a great initiative Ross - I'm Australian and have an audience here on YT, I'll spread the word and put pressure on the ACCC

[@trainee5471]

ACDC? Are they still active?

[@Xegethra]

Ey nice.

[@259TIM]

People with an audience spreading the word is exactly what we need, I hope more people like you make videos about this and get the fire going, we need to do something about this

[@KingLich451]

good lad

[@michaelince7998]

Love you Minimme ❤

[@Raycevick]

"Are you under the perception that multiplayer games are going to have active servers forever?" is something I was arguing about with somebody in January. I was already not going to bother responding to these people again the next time I see it, but at least I can now link them 36:12, just in-case there's a chance they'll get it. Let's have some fuckin fun in April...

[@parkerday470]

Holy shit Raycevick I didn't know you'd become aware of this. Let's FUCKING GO!!!

[@denizo9263]

What, that's raycevick?

[@WillowEpp]

There are still Enemy Territory servers up, so... yeah, kinda, honestly!

[@user-os7ec4dm8x]

I still wouldn't bother, their tiny minds can't comprehend sensible discourse.

[@DESARD12]

You seem interested, why not promote this on your channel? Calling it "The future of our current racing games" to draw attention, explain the situation, draw parallels to other games whose servers shut down and went years without being able to be played properly if at all. You have the platform, please use it.

[@LucasCunhaRocha]

PROTIP: If you buy a game through steam they have all the purchase info on your profile.

[@GiganFTW]

So?

[@bekkayya]

"under US law we are animals" goes so hard

[@XenoSpyro]

In reference to the "animals don't have rights" part, man do I have a response to this statement (in favor of Ross' logic, not against it) if this is the implicit truth in this country, even if my addition isn't strictly true in reality but would be true in the spirit of that logic and could even be presented as a dark joke. But saying it out loud would probably put me on a self delete list and a personal visit from at least two alphabet agencies.

[@DenzaMan]

Ross wants help with publicity? I'm willing to wager THIS is a title/thumbnail that if he makes a short follow-up/retraction video (10 minutes for KZbin ad-gorithm) will get some attention on this subject. Ross' face on the right looking bewildered, The Crew in the background, with big bold text with the words "US Law" and "ANIMALS" in red.

[@sirmidor]

​​@@iidoyila_live_37:30 and onwards. It's possible and has already been done. Source code access isn't necessary either, just a way to host a local server.

[@ryguy9876]

@@iidoyila_live_ And what exactly is the alternative? Letting these companies literally murder art because destroying the past makes them more money in the present? How about you roll over so that the big wigs in the industry can stomp down on the other side of your face?

[@beriukay]

@@iidoyila_live_ you must think it's a theme park because game companies have sold you on the concept of season passes. Furthermore, there is no reason they have to give away proprietary software in order to make their games work without their data center, that's just silly

[@drenkrod9811]

As a non-owner of The Crew, I am making a comment to please the algorithm and allow this plan to reach a wider audience.

[@quagernag]

The Crew looks nice , but I mostly stay clear of these companies (Ubisoft, EA etc) Because they are soulless, money hungry gaming corporations, but I’d love to see change in this situation.

[@MrMortull]

Does replying to your comment reinforce it, I wonder? The algorithm is a mystery to me.

[@Bluebedo]

May as well feed the algorithm.

[@elrenzo]

Comentando para ayudar al algoritmo

[@jet_hunter]

↑👍

[@DaRealBruner]

Dead games that the developers aren't willing to maintain or even sell anymore should automatically enter public domain. We *want* to purchase and play your games, and what are people supposed to do if you give them no other option?

[@shortcat]

Ross said that legal status doesn't matter in the first video, but I think it can, there will be an incentive for companies to legally crack games and write server emulators! Mods and remasters too, sounds great tbh.

[@KoylTrane]

Who knows, maybe that will force Nintendo's head out if it's ass

[@Nessinby]

​@@KoylTraneactually, it does the opposite. Afaik Japanese laws already have a "protect it or lose it" vibe to them, which is why Nintendo and other companies are so protective of their IP's. 'cause if they don't they show that they care, they lose their teeth in courts trying to protect it against the actual actors trying to wrong them. Making it so these games become freeware would make the situation much worse, and force them to pull bs of some kind to protect it even harder. Not too dissimilar to Disney and Micky Mouse..

[@kidkangaroo5213]

if push comes to shove, they'll just say that they might consider selling it again someday, which is why they need copyright protection. Lobbyism has and will continue to use the law to protect capital interest

[@666Tomato666]

@@Nessinby "protect it or lose it" applies to trademarks not to copyright

[@harrybriggs2586]

"I thought we had rights, my bad" is the summary of the 21st century.

[@demilung]

It is funny when you all complain about 21st century while your comparison point is like 1,5 decades near the end of the 20th as depicted in sitcoms.

[@marley7868]

@@demilung yeah the whole problem is that governments are being slow and cannot comprehend that digital and physical should probably have the save property rights that's it

[@targetshades2320]

SOOOOOOO OOOOOOOO MBAD

[@notNajimi]

@@marley7868it’s more like not understanding what shape digital property rights should take, applying physical property rights 1:1 is how we get “piracy is theft”

[@TheFlamingPike]

@@demilung To be fair the world was very different at the very end of the 20th century. It all went downhill after the 9/11 attacks.

[@onelazynoob15]

Bro, people not knowing that multiplayer games don't need a central server to function makes me sad. THEY TOOK THAT AWAY FROM YOU! THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS!!!

[@benn87]

I still remember the Lan parties of our group of friends very well. There were no "servers". Just a connection between our PCs. Good times...

[@zivzulander]

It's not just dumb luck that you have as large a following as you do, Ross. You have the mind of a free man. ✊

[@Voltamatum]

He is the Freeman

[@yourcollegedebt8384]

Ubisoft are about to "Hunt down the Freeman"

[@BackwoodSpiritAnimal]

👏

[@Lavourrin]

His cascade of words resonates with me.

[@electricindigoball1244]

As the G-Man said "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world."

[@tpd1864blake]

Maybe Louis Rossmann would upload a PSA on his channel for you. He regularly advocates for consumer rights. Also try contacting as many big gaming channels as possible to try and get them to upload PSAs We could be witnessing history in real time

[@HPCAT88]

was just about to mention him too. he needs to get him onboard

[@firstnamelastname-ev7br]

He already has as a matter of fact, right after ross' first video on this subject louis published his own video on the topic, wpuldnt hurt for him to properly get involved further though

[@GoldenBeans]

he even mentioned Accursed farms in one of his recent videos

[@More_Row]

Clueless

[@tpd1864blake]

@@More_Row yes I know Louis gave a shoutout to him like 2 months ago, but I mean a full dedicated video for his larger audience to get them to try and help out the best they can

[@grumpymonkey811]

Can we all just give this man the "Someone has a vision" award? Because THIS MAN has a proper vision.

[@Meximagician]

It's gonna be wild to see a gaming museum in the future that has _Overwatch_ posters, statues, clothing, probably even pornography... but no playable copy of the game itself.

[@JDM-Chaser]

Abit late but ... this is why archiving stuff like this is important I guess, not just to be a pirate yet the big companies don't want you to own nothing anymore and you will be happy with it.

[@marksmit6718]

Ross: decades of blood sweat and tears on things he's passionate about. Polished content all the way through Also Ross: whoa, dumb luck i have a following As someone who's been a fan since the start of freemans mind, please never minimise what a gifted and hardworking creator you are

[@rodchambers2529]

Well said!

[@k3salieri]

I was in a similar situation thinking game ownership was a grey area. Holy shit wasn't expecting that it already set that we have no rights in regards to software ownership. We need change.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

if I have no rights to the things I buy, I have no compunctions against using other means to preserve what I purchased.

[@Stray7]

@@KaiserMattTygore927 If buying isn't owning, piracy is not theft.

[@doltBmB]

@@Stray7 piracy was never theft, it's copyright infringement

[@XX-121]

@@doltBmB you know what he means. don't be thick

[@doltBmB]

@@XX-121 even the copyright holders call it theft to make it sound worse than it is, but it's not, never was, never will be, it's infringement.

[@DogmanDraws]

People who speak about online only games being only able to be shut down need to have a look at the Avengers game made by Cyrstal Dynamics (published by Square Enix). Avengers was big budget, AAA, Online only, games as service game. And when they delisted and closed support for the game (due to not wanting to renew the licience costs) they rebalanced the game to no longer require multiplayer grinding, made all cosmetics free and even gave people that had owned the game for a while a free cosmetic. I can still download that game from Steams servers, install it and play all the singleplayer content. It REALLY is that easy for developers to do this

[@thepinkplushie]

It's sad that this was likely just developers who really cared about what they made happening to have a boss who was empathetic to them or the playerbase, or even just didn't care and let them do it. It's the exception that proves the rule, since if at any point someone in a major company steps in and says "well, this will cost us a tiny bit of money and time" that's a deal-breaker for modern games companies, that exclusively care about increasing profit margins.

[@Malhonn]

there lots of old school Pc games that released server tools for people to make their own and host their servers, i think Valve was pretty good about this back in the day. idk if they still work today but i remember that being a thing. Back when most developers cared about their games and wanted people to keep playing their games, now its just maximizing profits over everything else

[@LucasCunhaRocha]

Also, City of Heroes MMORPG also had a very cool case of a private server getting the approval of NCSoft (I think it is the name) to run the server for the game and even make new content since the official servers were shutdown a long time ago.

[@austinreed7343]

To be fair, Avengers was so bad that when they did that, it was too late for the reception of the game. At least it did actually happen though.

[@DeetexSeraphine]

The deva behind the 40K game Martyr are also grinding away at an offline mode... I think they can see the writing on the wall.

[@Mr2010forgeben]

Given Critikal's recent video, I'd love to see the two of you interact. His numbers and our cause would be useful

[@Dudebox64]

AngryJoe gave Ross a shoutout in one of their recent news videos, too

[@Mr2010forgeben]

@@Dudebox64 I am beyond glad to hear that this is reaching other people

[@vdnf321]

It's a long shot but Linus and Luke on the WAN show have talked about the exact topic (specifically Ubisoft) of live service games terminating. If you're able to get in contact with them, they could be a good source for broadcasting the message to a wider audience.

[@ymarky7]

That's a good idea. They are warm to this cause and it would have a wide reach.

[@gamingreligiously]

They are also Canadian, and would have the money to fund a complaint with the Office of Consumer Affairs or the Competition Bureau.

[@sinople300]

In France, since covid we have a popular saying about our world: "We really live in the lamest dystopia, without the cool costumes and the neons everywhere."

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

A term with the same meaning that I heard being briefly used here in the UK was "Where are out robot arms?"

[@user-os7ec4dm8x]

@@TheSmart-CasualGamerA similar one I've heard. "Fuck em"

[@devforfun5618]

everyone needs to make their own costumes, Ellon musk is taking care of the neon

[@natowaveenjoyer9862]

I love that we live in a time of such peace and plenty that words like "dystopia" have been watered down into absolute meaninglessness.

[@luckyblockfatality]

Everything is getting shut down lately, I don’t like this new gaming ecosystem.

[@misterkefir]

Oldies but goldies ftw.

[@Zaximillian]

You will own nothing, and you will be happy. - Corporatism

[@Axodus]

​@@ZaximillianYOU 'VILL EAT 'ZE BUGS!

[@larsthedude1984]

Not really a comfort or a solution to easily preserved games being axed and lost by megacorps, but at least the looming games industry crash will mean we won’t be seeing this situation happen over and over.

[@larsthedude1984]

@@Axodus”what about all the perfectly good bread you throw out in locked dumpsters or the crops the government pays to be destroyed to bolster your profits?” “No there is no solution to hunger outside eating bugs. Look! They’re flavored now!”

[@notzan5302]

On the topic of "you cant run the servers forever" I think its relevant that City of Heroes Homecoming recently was allowed to purchase a license to run legitimately and now the game is officially revived and is as popular as ever, even getting new and updated content. Thats not a legal precedent, but it shows things like that can be done even in this day and age. Edit: people keep commenting about controversy in relation to Homecoming, which can be important for the context of that community, but the point I'm trying to make is that there will almost always be fans willing to take up the job of running servers if they have the means to do so and that games dont have to stay dead forever.

[@WarlockAddict64]

City of Heros where it is today, only became possible due to one of the developers leaking the server hosting architecture near to or on the original shutdown date. User hosted servers at the time were forced to stay underground, and actively hunted with shutdowns. The company seriously did not want what we have now, to have been reality then, or in the future. Also don't bring this up this part of history while you play on the Homecoming server or use their forums/discord, you may get banned. A stance the server operators held to maximize odds they could secure the license, without getting slapped by a shutdown.

[@zenonewicz]

@@WarlockAddict64 "forced to stay underground" LMAO it was one dude SELLING subs for people desperate enough to keep playing the game. The dev leaked it hoping it would create an ecosystem of servers so people can play as they want, but the original jackass just used it to get cash. If it wasn't for a single dude exposing all this, we still wouldn't even know playing CoH is possible. "Actively hunted with shutdowns" my ass.

[@marcforrester7738]

Yeah the thing about servers is like all software they get bigger and more complex over time so the older ones cost practically nothing to run on today's hardware. See also the original Guild Wars.

[@lucianocastrogiovanni2879]

@@marcforrester7738Merely from a logistics standpoint it will never be impossible for a consumer to host servers of software of the current era. Even companies themselves need to have a self-host in order to test out builds of their own games, and the complexity can never go beyond hardware that can be obtained in the market. Game servers are not military grade products.

[@chaosmagican]

@@lucianocastrogiovanni2879 Exactly, today it's often just a Dockerfile which sets everything up for more complex systems. In production it's just a matter of scaling these systems

[@JORGETECHJorge]

As a young person myself it baffles me that other young people are used to the concept of not having the possibility of hosting a private server, in fact, Minecraft is the game where I learnt the most about running private servers and the official option that was later implemented by the developers (Realms) is pretty underwhelming in comparison. On another note, there's another good example of a success story of server emulation after the developers stopped supporting the game, I'm talking about Mario Kart Wii and the Wiimmfi server emulator (also works for other Wii and Nintendo DS games), the community was able to make a compatible server software by analyzing network captures and footage from Mario Kart Wii and it's the reason you can still play a lot of Wii and DS games online today, in fact you could say the community around those games is more passionate than ever and there are entire custom track distributions for Mario Kart Wii meant to be played online. A similar thing is happening right now with the future closure of the Wii U and 3DS servers scheduled for April 2024 (a few days after The Crew, actually). But, of course, it's an exception rather than the norm and making server emulators is a really hard task that requires a lot of knowledge in network infrastructure, reverse engineering and software development.

[@SuperFranzs]

The Wii U and 3DS also has a server emulator! I believe Nintendo's systems are much simpler than the other's until the Switch came and they started using more modern server-client stuff.

[@robertnomok9750]

People emulated E-shop for 3ds as well. After all nintendo just took away your ability to download games you own. Those consoles are just dead. A lot of games were digital only.

[@SuperFranzs]

@@robertnomok9750 The funny thing about the 3DS and Wii U is that you don't need to have a key to a game (meaning you bought it) to download it. You only need it to start the game. If you remove the client-side check for the key, you can just start the game. I remember there was a program where it would open the regular eShop, but it acted like you owned all the games.

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

I'm 30 and some of my childhood years were spent playing on private populous 3 servers, it's really weird for that concept to be lost on some people.

[@Lynnfield3440]

Realms allowed me to port my PS3 world to pc and play it with mods and rtx, so honestly I think realms is pretty lit just for that 1 thing.

[@AQDuck]

"Abandonware" should be a real thing covered by law.

[@okN3]

As a German, I think a channel that might be interested in giving a shout-out would be AltF4Games. If I remember correctly, he even is a viewer of your channel, so he might see this video on his own. His channel isn't much bigger than yours, but he is very adamant about games preservation and his audience is quite aware of the problems of always-on games, so this might be a good address to get more participants in Germany.

[@chrismeandyou]

Then we all thank those Aussies who got Valve sued so we could have a refund system.

[@funeralgothatoo5814]

ACCC ftw!

[@illpunchyouintheface9094]

steam is still cancer

[@GameZard]

@@illpunchyouintheface9094Still the best gaming storefront. Way better than what consoles offer.

[@illpunchyouintheface9094]

@@GameZard sadly yea

[@Barmem]

​@@GameZardthere's also gog that sells games drm free

[@tba113]

As someone who works in a US state-level consumer protection agency (though not one directly relevant to this issue), I have to say, I haven't been this professionally outraged at the state of things here in a long time. There is a lot of precedent to the approach of "you signed the agreement, didn't you?", but there's also a pretty fair bit of precedent to the approach that certain things (like rights) can't be signed away, no matter what the agreement says. Getting in touch with the FTC _may_ help, though if anything comes of it, I doubt any results from them will happen quickly. That said, long shots do sometimes pay off, so a slim chance is still a damn sight better than none at all.

[@r4dios1lence92]

Brazil is kinda odd. The offices responsible for consumer protection kinda vary. First point of contact is PROCON ( _Fundação de Proteção e Defesa do Consumidor_ , Consumer Defense and Protection Institution), but they have no legal power, they just mediate individual and companies on complaints. They will put you and the company on a room to talk (figuratively, today this is done via online meeting). Once mediation fails and both sides don't agree, PROCON either reschedules another meeting, or forwards your problem to the legal system with all details you added to the case and the talks. Depending on the case, it's either the _Juizado Especial Cível_ (Special Civil Court literally translating, which is a civil court for small scale cases, usually ones that have forgone conclusions in individual vs companies or individual vs individual cases), or the _Juizado Cível_ (Civil Court, the usual court). Entering the Special Civil Court is easy (PROCON does it for you) and you don't need a lawyer nor money, but the Civil Court requires a lawyer to run things for you (you have to spend quite some money) or request assistance to have a lawyer assigned to you for free by the court (depends on your income and the case whether you'll be allowed one or not). On some cases, PROCON ain't even gonna touch your case, and will send you directly to the Civil Court system by yourself without any help aside from telling where the court is. When I got scammed by a finance provider with overcharges, PROCON didn't even take my case, and the Civil Court didn't accept my request for assistance and required me to hire a lawyer myself. I lost about 1k and the lawyer cost was going to start at 3k. When my mother had her smarphone screwed by a service provider, PROCON mediation failed (the guy LITERALLY said on the hearing that "nothing will come of this, you're wasting your time"). Case got sent to Special Civil Court, judging was immediate against the service provider, and she got payments in installments for the smartphone. Guy stopped payments midway, we got notified, and asked justice to intervene, and now they are hunting anything to his name to be confiscated and sold to pay for the rest. It's taking forever, but it worked (kinda, justice kinda did their jobs at minimum). In this case, I doubt PROCON is going to do anything because the purchases are done via a company that doesn't have representation on the country. The usual legal system will be expensive, so the best bet is some lawyer who cares about taking the case and doing it themselves on their own time and money. I know a couple of people who may help, and I'll forward your video, but no guarantees. I can only wish you luck.

[@TheJas20]

Manda esse comentário por email pro Ross. Vale incluir a informação que cada estado tem o seu PROCON, e nesse caso organizações decentralizadas assim torna a empreitada mais difícil

[@Malhonn]

A Ubisoft tem representação aqui, mas como você disse, Procon é meio inútil mesmo

[@r4dios1lence92]

@@TheJas20 Já tinha enviado, mas obrigado por reforçar.

[@r4dios1lence92]

@@Malhonn Questão com PROCON não é nem que eles são inúteis. Quando vai pro JEC (antigo Pequenas Causas), eles entram com a papelada sozinhos e reforçam o caso em comparação com você entrear no JEC vc mesmo (as vezes o JEC até reclama por vc não passar pelo PROCON primeiro). É que eles realmente não são um corpo com função jurídica. Maioria dos casos, a empresa tem receio de ir pra juízo, e ter que gastar com advogado ou ter problema na ficha por isso, então uma reclamação bem fundada no PROCON resolve alí, sem precisar gastar dinheiro e tempo de juíz. É basicamente um "você vai fazer por bem, ou vai fazer por mal?".

[@lucascabral6976]

Será que uma campanha de publicidade negativa no ReclameAqui não ajudaria em algo? Claro, isso só valeria para quem tem o jogo, não sendo o meu caso, mas, como nínguem quer publicidade negativa. Talvez isso seja apenas um grão de milho que ajudará a encher o estogamo da galinha, mas um grão a mais é melhor que um a menos.

[@orthochronicity6428]

The devs for Among Us have refused/dragged their feet a number of patches to the game including stuff as simple as having the join code be obscured as a common sense safety feature for an online game in that is famous for streaming. The main rationale that kept going around was "this is hard", when it is superficially obvious that it isn't, and was one of the most basic things modders were able to immediately do. I'm shocked how many people accept "this is hard" as justification, especially when you have game devs who also are streamers explicitly saying "lol no, omg no, this is trivial".

[@KaiserMattTygore927]

I'm tired of that being used as an excuse when baby-level modders could do it, I could probably do at least a tiny bit of that stuff.

[@TheMultiTasker3]

Yeah, for that specific example, I'm barely even a junior programmer, and even I can easily come up with how to implement that from off the top of my head. To write it in pseudo-code, it'd be something like if (showRoomID) { print("Room Code:" + roomID); else print("Room Code: ??????"); } Plus maybe something to delete the old line, before printing the new one when the user toggles the setting, if it doesn't replace itself automatically.

[@Tweetymorris5]

I was just waiting for you to mention Unreal Tournament in response to people thinking you’re trying to force companies to run their servers forever. The fact that current games are no longer playable once the studio stops supporting them is a problem the gaming industry *created*. Then they try to gaslight players into thinking that there’s no other option and they just have to live with it. How convenient is it that this dilemma results in them being able to sell you a product then delete it when it’s no longer profitable for them. If you want to be able to play anything even remotely similar to what you once owned, they conveniently are there to sell you the sequel. The only people that benefit are them, but they’ll never admit it. It’s too profitable.

[@cannotcompute]

The ending gag made me chuckle, but then I felt immediately depressed knowing that young people actually pay Microsoft directly to host painfully limited "realms" (servers) instead of just doing it themselves. So in reality, they STILL don't know what they're missing.

[@akaimizu1]

To a degree. I agree that people do pay for realms, but that's only to be able to have people join your world while you (the host) is not online. The server runs regardless of you. However, for all the time you have your machine on, running Minecraft, you can run a multiplayer session with no Microsoft server in use. It's all run from your machine as a server. If you want to kind of have a realm without using realms, you could dedicate a machine to always be on, to act as a Minecraft server. The issue being, would it be cheaper or more expensive, a cost to you, than using a realm?

[@bitnewt]

​@@akaimizu1It might not be efficient to leave an old laptop or a RaspberryPi (which might be at risk of overheating) running the server software constantly, but it's very likely cheaper than paying for a Realm. I think the point of a Realm is the convenience of not having to do any set up for people who are particularly time, energy, knowledge (whether they don't know, are unwilling to try to learn how to or don't know that it's possible) poor but have the disposable income.

[@georgeoldsterd8994]

The bit about users in the US not owning their games reminded me of that legal clause from the 90's that states that you're only legally permitted to install one copy of any software on only one machine. It's moronic, but it's there.

[@iidoyila_live_]

Code is not what you release to the public. You release unto them a license to use the product according to the license rules. What you SEE on your SCREEN as you play is what you are usually licensed to use in these cases. Not every game is licensed the way you described; companies are well in their rights to write their licenses how they like within the scope of the law, and that will never include " being forced to give over server-side programs and architecture to the public " while there is sensible government that doesn't want a global copyright war. You can copy the assets and such of public domain works such as Bleak House, but you can't go to the actual house it was written in and make off with Charles Dickens' typewriter.

[@georgeoldsterd8994]

@@iidoyila_live_why are you telling me this, though?

[@jimmyjones8676]

@@iidoyila_live_" and that will never include " Somebodies perceptions don't extend past the current era.

[@thesenamesaretaken]

​@@iidoyila_live_are you hallucinating? Either way, it sounds like you are endorsing false advertising. What game have you played whose website and adverts exhort customers to "rent a license"? Because I'm confident that all the other ones say "buy this game".

[@Jamesaepp]

@@iidoyila_live_ lovely to see another beacon of reason in the comments.

[@ignaciounzaga6733]

One of the things I think I get from your series of videos, is that this is a big catch-22: we can't foresee some bad practices from companies, so we only fight them when they appear, but once they do, is extremely difficulty to do so.

[@Accursed_Farms]

Yeah, I've had that thought about a 1000 times. This is also why any action on this had to include a pretty large game shutdown.

[@DaedricNZ]

Definitely think Karl Jobst would be a worthy person to get in touch with for the sake of publicizing this issue. He tends to deal with a lot of legal issues in the gaming world these days and has a lot of reach; many big streamers seem to react to his videos. He's also just a good honest dude who seems to be highly respected in the community.

[@pablostufff]

+1 on this

[@bpcgos]

​​​@@pablostufffAlso his compatriot,Muthahar a.k.a @someordinarygamers

[@NeatChill]

Agree on this

[@Alexandercrimson]

I live in Italy we have Codacons which is our Consumer protection agency. I can give you some more details if you need it! Besides that, you are a legend for doing this Ross!

[@512TheWolf512]

as Mr. Rossmann found out, lobbying also doesn't really work. maybe more direct bribery could, like what actually happens...

[@Barmem]

It does work, for big guys like apple

[@512TheWolf512]

@@Barmemwell, duh, like i said, straight bribery.

[@kiwikemist]

It does work, he's just too poor

[@rusi6219]

Lobbying *is* bribery.

[@Wannabe_Baby]

Ross, whatever happens, we're proud of you for taking action. It's always something that gamers talk about but never actually do. You're actually doing the work. I do have one recommendation that may seem minor but Katsuhiro Harada (director at Bandai Namco) recently made a point about this: SNAIL MAIL. I realise this is primarily a legal campaign rather than something like an online petition, which never works, but Harada said that traditional mail and even campaigning outside of offices impacts a developer far more than a throwaway online message. Now, nothing is being directed specifically at Ubisoft in this case but it may be something worth keeping in mind if the consumer protection groups have mailing addresses. Especially someone like the ACCC, who you said are unlikely to respond even with multiple reports of the same issue. And I just checked; the ACCC DOES have a mailing address!

[@thepinkplushie]

Yes! It cannot be said enough, it is FAR more difficult for any company, agency ect. to ignore physical mail than something online. Especially government agencies, which generally have a legal obligation to ensure it is read and documented. This creates a paper trail that can be referenced in legal cases. If, for example, a court case is trying to determine the number of complaints received, physical mail is much more likely to have been properly documented than emails. This goes for phone calls too. I can only speak for Canada here but generally government agencies have a duty to log calls and take basic contact information and the reason for the call. This information can then be cited in legal actions, in addition to just making it more likely to be addressed by an actual human and not lost in some automated mailing system.

[@themutantspacedancer3891]

bumping this

[@RandoGrunt]

Even when Harada-sama is EWGF'ing my face over and over, telling me to sit the sit down and shut the h3ll up all set to the tune of Infinite Azure, the man is still unfathomably based, lol. The man knows what's up and how to deal with nonsense.

[@Scottland89]

One great example to show the issues of companies putting stuff on servers, Sim City. Single player game where the devs tried to make it impossible to play offline. They even said home PCs were incapable of handling the AI of the sims that ran around the city. Many many people found out that was BS and the server requirements was just overzealous DRM. A year later it got patched to allow offline play, that is what Ross wants with the Crew!

[@cola98765]

I remember how people would unplug their internet in game to prove that indeed this game does not need internet to work.

[@KOS_Nova]

"I dont have a problem with clowns per se, but do you have to clown THIS HARD and RIGHT HERE?" Thats a great line, I will be using that

[@verrufen2642]

I saw an article referencing your 'games as a service is fraud' recently here in Germany. I was rather happy to see that, and sincerely hope it gets more mainstream attention!

[@hazydawns]

Ross I don't think you have to change the thumbnails for your videos, I find them very genuine and authentic, everything on this website is so commercialized now and has to be a "brand", I find your videos a huge breath of fresh air. Big support for your campaign, good luck!

[@lm9029]

Tell me about it. I miss when the preview image was actually a preview of a point in a video. Sure it didnt take as much effort to use a simple screenshot as a thumbnail but it was genuine and did the job. I mean no offense to talented people who draw their thumbnails but i feel like the majority are drawn the exact same style without showing what you'll actually see in the video. Also what is up with people using up a 3rd of the thumbnail to put a overexposed photo of themselves doing a forced expression? How is that appealing? Though i dont blame Ross for doing that in these particular videos as they need and must be promoted by the algorithm. I hope millions get notified by the issue. Im just confused how this trend started in the algorithm.

[@Sarmathal]

"You'll own nothing and you will be happy." continues to be accurate

[@trustytrest]

The corpos keep forgetting the second part though...

[@chaosvolt]

The smooth taste of this timeline flip-flopping between the intro to Deus Ex and the intro to Deus Ex: The Recut. Why contain it? 'scool.

[@GenericName43]

"you will eat ze bugs and live in a pod"

[@Sarmathal]

@@GenericName43You know what? That doesn't actually sound half bad. The bugs are kinda shitty but free housing would be amazing.

[@Mantis42]

who said it was free?

[@LifeWithMatthew]

On the EULA issue in the USA, back with the 360 Microsoft tried to update their EULA through a mandatory update. You either accepted the update and got to keep playing your games, or you rejected it and you had an expensive paperweight. The EULA included phrasing that said by accepting it you forfeited your rights to sue microsoft for anything they ever did. They were taken to court over this and the judge ruled that a EULA cannot compel you to forfeit your rights. I might have the exact details fuzzy, but the core of it is accurate. Using that case as a ground work to override the "companies can put anything they want in a EULA including saying you don't get to own the game" that we have right now might be viable, but honestly I think it's something that will need to be taken to the supreme court OR get a group of younger congressmen elected who don't belong in a nursing home instead of running a nation to fix our messed up digital rights law, because right now it's pretty bad. The idea that a physically mailed letter has protections that an electronic mailed letter does not, has laid the framework for a lot of abuse of our privacy and rights.

[@DeetexSeraphine]

That mediation clause is pretty standard across the board. I'm not sure how it goes in the States... but here in Holland at least, a license agreement doesn't trump the law.

[@C3l3bi1]

@@DeetexSeraphine the eu already has presedence on this you are allowed to make copies of digital liscences

[@toysoldiernerio7172]

I just wanna say thanks to Martin. He tried his best for everyone even if he wasn't able to help directly. What we can do is write our Congressmen and link them to this legal essay and HOPE they might read it.

[@zzzzzzz8473]

" i thought we had rights , my bad " . thank you for all of your works , will be ready come april . the deplorable exploitation of these systems is an insult to art that video games are , an insult to the people who worked so hard to make them , an insult to everyone who had the brief chance to experience them . what they are doing is criminal .

[@CTECH62]

I just emailed Ubisoft from Canada and did just as you asked following your instructions to the letter I have been playing The Crew Calling all Units pc since release and I am very pissed off that Ubisoft is trying to get away with this Good luck and hopefully we can start saving some games here

[@PhysalisAngulataNicotina]

AIRCRAFT TIMESTAMPS: 0:22 Helicopter 0:28 Airplane 0:42 Airplane 0:42 Airplane 0:50 Airplane 1:05 Helicopter 1:13 Airplane 1:46 Airplane 1:53 Airplane 2:02 Airplane 2:10 Airplane 2:12 Helicopter 3:00 Airplane 3:38 Helicopter 5:27 Helicopter 5:45 Airplane 7:12 Helicopter 7:51 Helicopter 8:09 Helicopter 9:16 Helicopter 10:49 Helicopter 11:55 Helicopter 12:52 Helicopter 14:10 Airplane 14:18 Airplane 14:18 Helicopter 16:16 Helicopter 16:27 Helicopter 16:42 Airplane 17:20 Airplane 17:50 Airplane 17:50 Helicopter 19:12 UFO (probably a helicopter) 21:10 Airplane 21:31 Airplane 21:58 Helicopter 23:00 Glider 23:09 Airplane 23:10 Helicopter 23:11 Airplane 23:21 Airplane 24:07 Airplane 24:20 Airplane 24:49 Airplane 25:31 Airplane 26:11 Airplane 26:16 Helicopter 26:37 Airplane 26:40 Airplane 26:52 Airplane 27:22 Airplane 28:09 Airplane 28:29 Airplane 28:32 Helicopter 28:56 Airplane 28:59 Airplane 29:24 Airplane 29:58 Airplane 29:59 Airplane 30:00 Airplane 30:06 Airplane 30:17 Helicopter 30:30 Airplane 30:44 Airplane 31:16 Airplane 31:20 Helicopter 31:27 Helicopter 31:30 Airplane 31:39 Helicopter 31:56 Airplane 32:13 Airplane 33:12 Airplane 33:12 Airplane 33:24 Helicopter 34:06 Balloon 34:19 Airplane 34:28 Airplane 34:30 Airplane 35:00 Helicopter 35:07 Airplane 35:09 Airplane 35:13 Airplane 35:14 Airplane 35:30 Airplane 35:34 Airplane *35:41 Hit And Run 35:54 Airplane 38:25 Airplane 39:18 Airplane 39:33 Airplane 39:49 Airplane 39:52 3 Helicopters / 26 Airplanes 39:59 Helicopter 41:10 Helicopter 41:13 Helicopter The air traffic on this game drives me insane

[@grasstoucher8503]

I can't say I ever needed this or will need it, nor can I imagine anyone that would. But I still feel the need to thank you for doing this.

[@KlarkMorrigan]

For real. Every time I turn to look at the video "there's that damn helicopter again".

[@PhysalisAngulataNicotina]

This is something I was waiting for Ross to comment since the first time he covered the game. Since he didn't I did it myself in my own special way.

[@KlarkMorrigan]

@@PhysalisAngulataNicotina It was good stuff. Gave me a laugh. C:

[@KleberDKurosaki]

Do not attempt to board the Helicopter

[@stevenkelley2662]

Don't underestimate the value of educating people on how these practices work! Even if we have no consumer laws protecting us in the U.S. the practice still depends exploiting our assumptions on what it means to buy a game, and this message helps us shed those assumptions. If people look at a 60 dollar pre order and automatically consider that there is no obligation to improve post launch bugs, it may have no resale value and become unplayable at any time (especially if it's unsuccessful because other consumers have the same apprehension), then the lifetime supply of lower priced, independently published games by studios with a reputation for nurturing the communities behind their games starts to look like a much better deal.

[@bigrigjoe5130]

For a second I thought he said "ProZD vs Zeidenburg" And I was like Who did SunWung sue? Lysanderoth?

[@fiveletters]

i think what you're referring to is generally called a "test case", where a dispute is taken to the highest courts possible in order to "legislate from the bench", e.g. make changes to unjust laws by setting precedent without having to have a new law passed.

[@KairuHakubi]

I appreciate you openly admitting you're using this as an example to galvanize people against a problem. That's something bad actors do constantly, but they hide it. like when they blow up coverage of a random tragedy to emotionally manipulate law changes that punish the innocent. this is actually valid and vital, because nobody's emotional _enough_ about it.

[@Asytra]

Thank you for taking this on. As a US citizen, I'm simply not buying "Live Service" games anymore. It's far too much money for what is usually an inferior product and one with a shelf life. I certainly hope you can get some traction on this in other markets. We're pretty much living Cyberpunk here in the US, but without any of the cool stuff.

[@kieranhurst8543]

My line is to not buy them but also to negatively review any live service game I own on every platform I can, even if it is a game that I like.

[@Asytra]

@@kieranhurst8543 I like it.

[@Lynnfield3440]

​@@kieranhurst8543buy, Bad review, and refund

[@LilAlfiq]

36:29 Yeah I've seen how younger gamers will see stuff about an older game they could play, become interested and excited, but only for a moment before sighing that they're too late, "no way 'the servers' are still up...", writing off the value of looking into playing it.

[@MatheusKlSch]

In Brazil, the agency responsible for consumer protection is PROCON. And when it comes to consumer protection laws, Ubisoft actions *may* be considered deceptive practice and might be fined and forced to do something regarding The Crew. However, IANAL and the best bet would be contacting a Brazilian lawyer. There are a youtuber lawyer, "Seus Direitos", who might help you with that.

[@therealmrglanet2127]

"Under the law, it's more like we're animals...It is utterly hopeless for animals like us. God bless America." Truly, America is THE Accursed Farm.

[@PlusOneMacie]

Angry Joe mentioned your first video in one of their weekly news segments but clearly Alex or whoever it was barely looked into it. I think it would be worth your while to reach out and see if they would cover it again once they actually know more and that you're 'The Freeman's Mind Guy' and not just some complete rando with 12 subs and stuff, I'm sure they would at least mention this update more in another news segment if nothing else! Thor/Piratesoftware was another great suggestion. Also, I wouldn't mention the Belgium lootboxes thing as any kind of win. Over 80% of games in Belgium have been found in noncompliance with that ruling and nothing is being done about it.

[@DravenVanHeel]

Just wanted to chime in here. You can indeed pay KZbin to promote your video through Google Ads. If you've ever seen a video in your timeline labelled "sponsored", that's exactly where it came from. I don't know the intricacies of this, and can't say exactly how effective this would be, but you could do some kind of call-to-action video and advertise it to get as much attention on it as possible. Might be an avenue worth exploring.

[@devforfun5618]

multiple people mentioned him on jim sterling, that is how i got here, i guess it could reach other chanels like josh strife reyes, MxR, girlfiend reviews, some vtubers, even if those streamers themselves dont comment on it, just seeing this in the comments could increase the range a lot, because their audience would care

[@HojoNorem]

I don't own The Crew, so as a start I'm making this comment to feed the Algorithm. Gotta get that user engagement. Will try to spread the effort to the few forums I frequent.

[@CraftMine1000]

"I thought we had rights, my bad" This is a vibe I can't even begin to describe

[@funnymahem]

Here's the thing, I didn't know steam had a refund system until just now, and I've only played 20 minutes of this game I regret buying to this day, but I bought in in January, which means I can't refund it... I'm still being ripped off even tho refunds are allowed on Steam, because steam didn't make it well known that refunds were even possible... They hide that function... Instead of focusing on the amount of days you've had it, they should focus more on playtime... This sucks.

[@cola98765]

I you bought it from steam directly, you can still apply for the refund, even if it's beyond 2 h or 2 week mark, it's just you might get easily dismissed. just mention that you are knew to this feature in the comments of the request. Another thing to look out for is that if a game goes on sale soon after you buy it, this is also a valid refund reason (I think they return the difference then).

[@DawnOfTheOzz]

For as troublesome as my homeland of Australia gets when it comes to video games, when we fight for consumers rights, we go full-on Nightmare mode against companies. Also, Ross should really get in touch with Mutahar from SomeOrdianryGamers. He's a Canadian KZbinr who I think will get along quite well with Ross since he's also a staunch advocate of video game preservation and has frequently made videos on emulation and how he circumvents anti-cheat software in games when playing on Linux. He should absolutely contact him or get on his Podcast.

[@kieranhurst8543]

Mutahar would make one video on this, it would get waaay less views than his normal content and then he would never touch it again. He's a drama tuber who gets all of his content from individuals doing stupid stuff or ideological culture war shit. These people never care about the big problems, also he has literally taken sponsorships from live service games and I think in a toss up between getting embargoed by live service devs for supporting this cause vs say nothing except maybe some token support, he would take the token support every time

[@silkworm025]

Hi Ross. I've got a thought to raise on this; What's the plan if Ubisoft decides to *delay* the shutdown on The Crew? If we take the cynical route and assume they delay it for a year to get interest to fade, or to stretch out any time Lawyers are hired for. And possibly void or obfuscate most of the complaints received. It's going to hurt the case, and the people like you trying to get it started.

[@259TIM]

I sadly don't own the Crew so I cannot participate in your plan but I really really hope that this will go somewhere, this crazy anti-consumer and anti-art behaviour has to stop, games being shut down forever and lost to time for no reason other than companies not wanting to release the server code, it's absurd and unacceptable and I wish governments did something about it.

[@codeyvo]

This also might be a good opportunity to reach out to Karl Jobst. I know you kinda jabbed at him in your Trackmania2 episode, but since he is based in Australia and is quite familiar with legal proceedings in that region, not only would he be able to provide good advice, but he might also help spread the word about the practice of killing games since his content is gaming focused.

[@Malhonn]

Hey Ross, brazilian here, although i'm not a law expert myself, i do know that our Law and Constitution is heavily based on USA's Law and constitution, while i think our consumer protection laws might be better than USA's one (which is a very low bar it seems) i don't think its much better, and we Brazilians aren't much to fight for our consumer's right either, unfortunately. I will talk with some lawyers i know, but i wouldn't hold my breath for Brazil on this case.

[@rentless666]

Speaking of Dead Game News, you should absolutely check out what's happening with Gigantic. After being dead for years, they are finally bringing the game back and even adding new heroes and stuff.

[@irinore]

WHAT IT'S COMING BACK?

[@CoffeeMaus]

I think contacting the people over at Second Wind will be effective. Considering their founding I have no reason to believe they wouldn't help.

[@neuroticaproductions1834]

I never thought the guy who makes the silly Freeman's Mind videos I started watch fifteen years ago would be leading a potentially effective crusade against multi-national corporations, getting eyes on related even more important issues as he does. Like, Jesus Christ, I think we might be living on the most awesome timeline, existential threats aside.

[@Conservative4]

I don't own the game, and frankly I rarely even play games. I just think digital "ownership" is the root of a huge portion of our inevitable dystopian future to the point that this small battle here may set the ground work for literal life and safety measures in the distant future. Think about the number of things we store in cloud-based storage, the software that is increasingly replacing real-world functioning of tools, and the ever-steady increasing privatization of every single good. I can see a very real future where someone's insulin pump has a shutoff feature, or other such horrors. Companies are increasingly trying to take something and give nothing- remembered Zuckerberg's failed Meta-world digital real estate? They will keep trying that stuff, and ownership is going to be huge, especially when they find something that sticks and is important.

[@InsanityPlusOne]

"you can't defraud a squirrel" "hold my beer, I'm going in"

[@user-zp8kj2cl9g]

Keep deflecting the issue, but at least you're a funny guy, eh?

[@DrLipkin]

ManyaTrueNerd and Dan from Nerdcubed are European youtubers that did a Crew 2 collaboration some years back. Might want to reach out to them. (Also, Jon/MaTN's partner Claire is French)

[@Vartuoosi]

ManyaTrueNerd will be a waste of time. He is a massive shill so he'll side with the big publishers.

[@Stevo_1998]

41:23 "Minecraft supports [locally hosted] servers" As does Gmod, when kids started getting in to that years back with the advent of TTT/deathrun/prophunt videos becoming popular The younger generation _should_ know about self-hosted servers and stuff, but tbf the computer literacy of kids now is actually dropping quite a lot? Schools started assuming 'kids can use phones, therefore we don't need to teach them how a PC works' and now most of them don't know how folders work in Windows ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[@oligarchies]

Yeah I wouldn't go that far lol. Computers are now pretty much necessary for school in most places, so we are pretty proficient. Knowing how game servers work and what they entail is just not something the average kid who has to pay a monthly fee for online gaming is gonna be familiar with.

[@sellelk2380]

The UK does have an independent organisation named Citizens Advice, but from what I’ve researched, their advice only talks about goods that are faulty when brought, not companies that have disabled their product. Edit: It also appears there is an subdivision called trading standards, who deal with business conduct.

[@pcrizz]

This has probably come up before, but there might be some basis for The Crew being similar to a planned obsolescence situation, except without another actual replacement product even being provided. Planned obsolescence itself isn't prohibited in the US, but there can still be mandates made to oppose certain aspects of it. (Ross may already have discussed this before, I'm just recalling something like it.) The general idea is that consumers are basically forced into a contract that "could" last an indefinite amount of time, but most likely won't and in a practical sense expires before a sizable number of consumers are done using the product with no direct option to replace it with a product that is sufficiently similar enough to. In other words, consumers are being mislead and are denied access to options that could and should be reasonably provided, such as singleplayer offline mode.

[@tylertheguy3160]

Even if this ends up not working you can be proud you did everything in your power to try to stop it. It would also still send the message to these companies that we are actually willing to fight back seriously.

[@ihavenoson3384]

22:13 - So buying software in the USA is pointless because you do not legally own any of it even if you pay for it. What a catch 22 to make everyone a pirate in the eyes of the law.

[@doltBmB]

I'm pretty sure that "shrink wrap" agreements were ruled ineffectual numerous times, in other words if they eula only is presented to you AFTER purchase (most are), it is null and void. You should talk to martin about that.

[@whoeveriam0iam14222]

young people never saw the MInecraft update that made the game run "on a server" even if you're playing singleplayer. this solved a lot of tough bugs and the server just pauses when you pause your client MInecraft is basically "always online" but the "online" part of it can just be your own Minecraft client

[@Yugomorph]

If we could find a games collector who bought a collector's edition of The Crew but never installed it, I think that he could make a pretty decent argument that they have devalued and therefore damaged his property without his consent and he would probably have a very decent chance of winning that case.

[@devforfun5618]

did this ever happened before? is the company responsible for aftermarket reselling ? sony devalued poachers ps5's by forcing then to sell before the consoles brick and that was arguably a good decision, instead of letting them appreaciate in value

[@ORLY911]

Locally operated servers is something I wish Bandai did for Gundam Evolution, just rerelease the game with all the mxt content and classes as the game itself for a set price, like a traditional game, have all servers be locally hosted by players since they obviously didnt want to maintain them in the original release. They own the IP so there is no licensing issues.

[@Skullkan6]

12:01 Please don't for some. Those random shots have become iconic and how we find or remember the videos for some of us. Especially ones like Carnevil, Nyet 3, ESPECIALL ETERNAM, strife, Quarantine, bipbop, bozos, uncanny valley, Secret world, puzzle agent...

[@AtlatlMan]

Agreed. Ross should keep the classic videos as is.

[@ignotumperignotius630]

I agree

[@pt8306]

Just a heads up, the Australian commission is the ACCC, not the ACC. We generally call it the "A-triple-C" rather than the "A-C-C-C", as well. If you want to resonate with Australians, this is the language you should be using.

[@Fezezen]

If companies just added a way to local host their games, like you said, this would be solved. Honestly as a game developer, I think it's probably easier to program your networking architecture to not assume it will be connecting to the same server, every time, because then you'd have to update the game, and manually change wherever the IP/port is referenced in the source code if you ever needed to migrate servers. It's just a lazy practice, and not very maintainable. You don't even need to maintain a server list for your game, although that would make finding servers easier, all you'd need to do is allow users to input the IP they want to connect to, and boom. Anyone can host a dedicated server now if the game either comes with the dedicated server software, or you can find it elsewhere from the developer, or even if players love the game so much that they'd write their own server emulator (which is not at all easy).

[@Yshelomov]

This is such a good initiative, Ross. You're really going for it. I'm so happy to be part of your audience.

[@Majima_Nowhere]

You have a point, there are no gaming consumer laws in America. This is because videogames are only around 50 years old, which is less than half the age of the average lawmaker.

[@Flyon86]

"The internet is a set of tubes"

[@inny74]

Also because America is pro-corporation to the point that it hurts consumer rights.

[@tipulsar85]

Funny story about Option 3, there is one big game out there that is online and doesn't have to talk to the central servers for online play. Most people forget that that's an option for Minecraft.

[@thescrewfly]

Ross mentions this right at the end of the video!

[@Cynidecia]

It technically does to login, And then get authenticated to connect to a community hosted server.

[@LucasCunhaRocha]

Reminder that this is one of the MANY bullshit practices that consoles created. Call of duty used to have dedicated servers until cod4, then when MW2 launched people complained a lot about the central servers but in the end they still bought the game.

[@BOBTHEBERT]

Honestly this has just been a sobering reminder of how the situation is for the US as a whole, not just limited to video games. This shit is in everything we have now, anything software-related is tied up in this WEF "You will own nothing and be happy" bullshit, and that's a fucking lot of shit. I would offer some alternatives but you know, that'd get me a knock at my door from The Happy Van sponsored by Meta and Lockheed Martin, so I'll let you fill in the blanks.

[@Sewblon]

" I would offer some alternatives but you know, that'd get me a knock at my door from The Happy Van sponsored by Meta and Lockheed Martin, so I'll let you fill in the blanks." Has that ever happened?

[@BOBTHEBERT]

@Sewblon with those specific companies? I can't prove anything about either but I'd believe it, given Boeing has been offing whistle-blowers. It's not that much of a stretch to believe the other big US aircraft manufacturer, in particular the one that's a big player in the military-industrial complex alongside Boeing. Realistically my alternatives would probably draw the eye of the feds before either corp since they're both heavily relied upon by the government to harvest data on its citizens surreptitiously in the case of meta, or to create whatever death machine is being ordered by our client states in the middle east to pursue their pet genocide projects (Houthis in the case of Saudi Arabia, Palestinians in the case of Israel).

[@taFBackwards]

Commenting this for the algorithm and morally supporting this plan. Give it a shot, Ross; even if nothing happens and The Crew dies, more people need to know we genuinely don't own the software we purchase. Good luck.

[@realchickennuggy]

This should be a crime. The crew should be preserved, at least include an offline patch.

[@BadgersDen]

41:22 "Minecraft supports private servers! Forget what I said, young people don't have an excuse to not know about local hosting" And as a guy approaching his mid-20's I agree with this, especially with Minecraft, its never been easier to do, I host a server all the time on my computer for my friends, once you got the port forwarding done its really just as simply as having the space and just running the thing (Excluding any technical problems you or your friends have)

[@wendigockel]

You should definitely contact German KZbinr "Altf4games". He's more or less specialised in exposing dubious practices in the gaming industry. And he's got practically the biggest possible German-speaking audience. Oh yes, and he talks about racing games regularly.

[@armisg5664]

Finland seems to be covered already. You're doing good work here! I'd love to see this lead to games always having an offline mode (because maintaining servers forever seems less likely). I'm something of a pessimist, though, so I can see this going in a completely different direction, even if we "win". The twin developments of games as a subscription and cloud gaming will enable games companies to actually stop "selling" games in the future. You will only ever have a subscription to a service and you have no say in the contents of said service. Slap AI on that and you have a service that generates infinite shovelware games. Ugh, I hope we don't go that way.

[@Doomcat1066]

Ross: I'm not sure how familiar you are with that situation, but you should look up the story behind City of Heroes: Homecoming, where the CoH community back-engineered the MMO's server-side infrastructure (Using from what I remember, leaked code from a programmer from the original company that owned the game) and got into legal trouble when the servers got too popular. It's still running today, my understanding is there was an Agreement with NCSoft over them hosting the game for free, but I didn't keep up with the story past that point.

[@glitchyrawls3632]

I think the only real excuse as to why companies don't want to give you access to their servers is because if they allow you to try to redirect server commands for THIS game, then you will have the tools needed to host and redirect traffic from THIS game's sequel. But honestly, if you haven't changed the way you secure your connections to your next GaaS game, then its on you. Just a finale update to open up some pathways is needed. But I've always been saying that the only way the US is going to get any change is if government-level laws get passed. Goodwill is dead, it died in 2006 with horse armor and other MTX, maybe even earlier with MapleStory. Side Note: I've worked in Customer Support for video games (Rockstar outsource, and was watching Bethesda CS across the way burn with Fallout 76). You'll bother some nobody who doesn't even get to say he worked at Ubisoft for a few days, then some head of CS at Ubisoft will scan tickets for certain words and dumpster all the tickets about it. But, at least you have your receipt for your future plans.

[@The_Nametag]

If you can't own a game, you can't "steal" a game either.

[@trainee5471]

Feel free to "steal" The Crew after the end of March then

[@brandemon6667]

@@trainee5471 if only some mad russian would decompile the game and crack it

[@Assimandeli]

I have never supported piracy, but I mean, in cases like these, why not.

[@smittywjmj]

It's not that nobody owns the game, the publisher owns the game, and consumers just buy permission to use it. So piracy would still be theft by the legal definition. This is all blatantly ridiculous to anyone with any common sense, and it's why this campaign has to push for big legal changes just to break out of the current, stupid, system.

[@TheSilverShadow17]

​@@smittywjmjgetting permission to use and play the game is also known as buying the license, which every gamer does anyways upon making a purchase of a game. From there the ownership rights shouldn't be infringed or interfered with.

[@JenyaIsJustChilling]

"I thought we had rights. My bad." Apparently, law people love to quote old Georgy Carlin from his last Special about our rights being imaginary...

[@President_Dave]

You have my support, you mad, beautiful Hamm-from-Toy-Story-sounding bastard. I hope something changes before we lose a ton of games for no reason.

[@crane8819]

Hearing people defend companies doing this by saying things like "they can't run the servers forever" just makes me sad. They may not be able (or want to) keep games alive but we can! How can someone call themselves a "gamer" and be okay with games dying? I've never played The Crew and never will but it should always be there for people who enjoy it.

[@chaosvolt]

Also, the US section is just one long essay on "just because it's legal does not make it ethical"

[@Gregtami]

Since you and your wife live in Poland I am glad that we will tackle this issue on polish side as well. I would like to offer my help in translation and research.

[@EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH]

email him. your comment will probably be buried on below of a hundred other comments and he probably won't see it.

[@Gregtami]

@@EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEH Already did.