Dealer FAILED Inspection for THIS??

This 2006 Honda Accord came in for a second opinion.
It failed the PA State Safety inspection at the local Honda dealer, and they quoted a really high price for repairs...is it fair?
I look over the vehicle myself and draw some concerning conclusions...looks like they missed a pretty important SAFETY ITEM!
HOW TO CHECK YOUR BALL JOINTS:
• Ball Joints: How to Ch...
URCERI TORQUE WRENCH:
www.amazon.com...
Enjoy!
Ivan

[@kevinbarry71]

The technician at the dealership would have actually had to do some work to find the ball joint. The things he flagged are easy to spot just by looking. Definitely don't bring a car that old to a dealership. Actually don't bring any car to a dealership

[@alleycatvietnam]

I disagree my daily driver is a 2002 VW MK4 GTI 1.8 T 291,000 stage 1 flash plus other up-grades and I have a great relationship with my dealership ( never thought this would happen ) having said that my guy looked out for me snd we have a good relationship. Like all relationships, it takes work...lol. Cheers from San Francisco

[@scottsmrcka2769]

According to PA inspection regulations those rotors would fail. A rotted bumper beam would also fail. No excuse for missing the ball joint though.

[@jamesbruno5896]

That's pretty sad a dealer or any shop for that matter missed that! Nice job Ivan!

[@wendwllhickey6426]

Don't ever go to a dealership for any repair or insp they just want money and don't care about your car at all.

[@arthuresclamada1805]

I started doing my own repairs on my cars because I can't find any honest shops around, thanks for your channel. More than 10yrs ago my explorer started idling rough and check engine lit up, I have the shop inspected it and funny that what they did was pour some injector cleaner into it and charged me $40. Check engine went back and still idling bad, when I checked the engine myself, they didn't even removed the engine cover to see a hole in one of the vacuum hoses. What a rip off, I never went back to the shop again.

[@MrKingdavis13]

Those "free" inspections are a complete scam. Here is another example that happened to my Aunt and Uncle. They live in Western Pa but have a house in Eastern Pa and a winter home in Florida and they were in a weird situation where they were having to drive from the Florida house to the house in Eastern Pa and back to Western Pa at least 4 times per month so they bought a full size Dodge 3/4 ton 12 passenger van so they could make the trip with the whole family and a box trailer in tow. In the first year of the vans life they put over 30,000 miles on the van having it serviced every oil change at a dealer so when the inspection was due they dropped the van off and told them they needed it back in 3 days to go back to Florida. The STEALERSHIP called and told them the van was ready to be picked up the next day and when my Aunt got there they gave her a bill for $4,000.00 and she didn't know better and cut them a check. When my Uncle found out they had been robbed he took the van back to the dealer and demanded to get all of the supposedly bad parts that they said they replaced and they told him the dumpster had already been picked up so they couldn't do that. He then walked to the dumpster and took pictures of it full of all kinds of parts but not his then took pictures under the van proving that nothing had been replaced except the brakes and rotors. The dealership ended up having to return the money, buy back the van at full retail price and gave them a used Jeep wrangler for a year lease for free to keep them from going public with the case.

[@NoWr2Run]

GOOD.

[@BoB4jjjjs]

Robbers, they are mostly the same, take advantage every time they can and get the chance. Not all are like that, but car dealers on the whole are at it.

[@nosliwttam77]

They should have gone public with it to keep it from happening in the future

[@MrKingdavis13]

@@nosliwttam77 Yeah I agree, but the dealership had a large group of lawyers that promised to drag the case out so long that their children would forget about it so they took the deal. The agreement didn't say that the extended family couldn't talk about it though and we spread the word around so well that the dealership closed down the next year and was taken over by another Dodge dealer that had successful lots in Pittsburgh. They are probably still doing the same thing but we haven't experienced it first hand this time.

[@MrKingdavis13]

@@BoB4jjjjs I had a friend that had me look over his car to make sure it was good for the inspection coming up and I replaced the front brakes and rotors as well as the outer tie rod end on one side and told him it was good to go. He took it to a "muffler" shop that had coupons for a free inspection with an oil change but they said it needed $1,250.00 in repairs so he brought it back to me to verify the stuff was bad and there was a bad control arm bushing that I missed somehow but the rest was stuff that I had already replaced so I changed the bushing for 30 bucks and got it inspected by a garage that is honest. He moved to Ohio and is dealing with an entirely different scam over there because they don't have "inspections" but they have emission checks where you have to plug into their computer and if it fails you have to pay $500.00 a year.

[@richardsawtell256]

great video , nice to see you do a great job , i am a vehicle inspector here in new zealand and we get audited to make sure we check vehicles properly , its sad to see some workshops don"t care and bout safety and only money , but we all share the road and i don"t want myself or anyone i know killed by someone who can not check a vehicle properly

[@Anonymous-it5jw]

It's the small, practical tips that make these jobs go smoothly, like how to use the floor jack to pop a ball joint from a lower control arm, using a diamond bladed edge grinder to quickly modify your tools to do the job, and the value of having the right tool to be able to quickly remove old parts and install the new ones (to the correct torque) in the limited space you're working in. Glad a new circlip came with the ball joint - old ones can't be re-used safely, and finding large metric circlips is almost impossible in typical parts stores. Thanks for the video and for making it look easy. P.S. The bonus footage is even more useful than the original subject of the video, and so helpful that you might want to consider retitling this video to something like: "Dealer safety inspection failed this Honda for cosmetic damage and didn't notice failing ball joint???"

[@Jason-cu1jp]

Another excellent video. My first car had double wishbone front end so I had a good understanding of having to "unload" the ball joint to be able to test for wear. It was amazing how many people I met, most with easily 10 times the experience that I had, didn't understand this. My dad's friend took his car to a dealership for a safety inspection, he knew he needed new tyres and was going to get them elsewhere, but thought he'd test them out. Even though he gave them a hint that he was concerned about tyre safety. They, of course, checked tread depth (which was fine) but missed the obvious sidewall damage. It's a shame, as many people have no mechanical aptitude and rely on these checks to keep them alive.

[@brainndamage]

The inner side of the passenger brake disk is actually rusted more than half the way, the pads won't grind down that deep rust, rather it'll grind down the pads. If you see considerable rust where the pads ride (not just flash rust) it's time for new rotors.

[@ScottDLR]

Totally agree - that is a safety issue.

[@DaddyBeanDaddyBean]

At what point in the video do you see that?

[@JustAnAverageBrad]

@@DaddyBeanDaddyBean 2:30

[@paulstandaert5709]

That's only a safety issue to people who don't ever see rust. Rotors like that are never a problem, although they wear faster. You can drive the car like that and never be able to tell. Put new pads and rotors on it and it doesn't change how the car stops one little bit. You're best off to run it like that until the pads are done. The problem starts when they get really thin.... Just watch some episodes of just rolled in to see what I mean.

[@rodkennedy9800]

That aside, what about missing a REAL safety issue such as the ball joint. Think tech is under pressure to look for EASY profitable work!!!

[@randy1ization]

the stealerships are so focused on fabricating a big ticket repair, they forget to actually check out the vehicle.. why people go to stealerships out of warranty is puzzling to me.

[@jblyon2]

I still go to my Toyota dealer, BUT, I know everything my car needs and when. I just either can't do it myself or can't be bothered. Every time I price out a job they come out the same or cheaper than nearby shops. I have had a few guys there try to sell me on crap I know I didn't need, or need yet, but mostly they just do what I say. Hell, I recently got new tires through them and they beat the best pricing I could get elsewhere for the exact same tires + alignment by $120. Dealers can be good, but you have to know enough to tell them what you need, rather than leaving it up in the air and blindly listening to what they tell you is needed.

[@joelopez40oz23]

@ Dealership might be easier? If you only knew what type of bs us dealership guys go through on a daily basis. Did you notice how on the estimate the word "free" was used? Us flat rate dealership guys dont get paid when we do complimentary free inspections. Every vehicle gets a complimentary inspection.

[@stargazer7644]

Mainly because it is hard for Joe Driver to find a competent trustworthy mechanic today. One would hope the dealerships generally have a lot to lose in their reputation, so they might at least make an attempt to have good people.

[@JohnDoesGarage]

I was an inspection mechanic in Pennsylvania before moving to South Carolina and I made sure the vehicles were safe, but I was realistic when it came to the reality of living in the rust belt. I have to be honest, if the rotors looked like the inside of the right front rotor, I would have rejected it as well, but not for the rear bumper rust unless it was ready to fall off. Also, I was meticulous about checking suspension components for reasons you mentioned. You can make sure the vehicle is safe without being a jerk about it. If you are too strict on rust then no vehicle in that area over a few years old would pass inspection. I'll let small chips in windshields pass but not cracks for example. I'd pass small holes in a door skin or fender but not completely rotted out floorboards. The lights had to work and the horn worked when I checked it. Then there's the idea that every man has his price, and I was offered money on a regular basis to put a sticker on something, my price was always five times more than it would cost to fix what I had rejected. If I put my sticker on a vehicle, it was safe, not perfect, but safe. I have seen cars that were death traps but they had a new sticker on them. Too much liability for me.

[@groosbro1]

The passenger rotor is toast!

[@SmittySmithsonite]

That isn't bad for this part of the country, believe it or not ...

[@baxrok2.]

Over the years, I've seen a handful of Hondas stranded with their wishbones sitting flat on the ground and the wheel sticking almost straight out. Thanks Ivan!

[@joecummings1260]

I've been a Pa inspection mechanic since 1979. Back in the day we used to see lots of rusted body panels and stuff like that, but almost never brake rotors or pickup truck frames and the like. I wonder if it's the de-icing chemicals they are using now, or the steel. I know some of the pickup frames are boxed now causing problems. It's crazy seeing stuff with frames failing that are only like 10 years old. That used to be almost unheard of.

[@chuckschillingvideos]

My 2011 Lexus ES350 failed TX inspection last week for illegal tint. Took it across town to another inspection station, and voila! Passed. It's a miracle!

[@andykidwell6187]

That's just unacceptable Ivan, how the hell could the dealer have missed a bad ball joint??!? 19 years ago I lost a ball joint in a 90 Accord and almost hit a guard rail at 60mph. I think I may have left a skid mark in my underwear.

[@jamesfenton7338]

No inspections here in Oregon, but no salted roads either. We do get a few cars from the East Coast, and it's pretty obvious why inspections are needed. It's nice not having to work with rust bucket cars, you can have them. Oregon installed a very nice feature on all it's roads to eliminate dangerous cars and dangerous drivers, it's a 6' X 6' ditch for drainage and no shoulder. It's very effective, it will swallow you whole.

[@int53185]

In this case, "drive it 'til the wheels fall off" certainly applies. Nice tip for checking ball joints. Thanks Ivan.

[@bighurk30able]

Nice job Ivan I never heard of such a thing of a rusted bumper and rusted rotors not passing inspection. we are in the rust belt they're going to be rusted. and I only live about 1: 45 minutes from you and he missed the most important thing👍

[@hpelisr]

You are absolutely correct Ivan, I would fix the ball joint, and send that car to another inspection station.

[@shawnbauman5463]

FYI, i asked my quality assurance officer who audits us for PA SI stuff regarding rust on brake rotors.... anything more than 20% of the surface of the rotor is rust flaking or raised its a fail. Again ive seen fresh SI stickers from independent shops on vehicles that have nothing but flaking rust for rotors, leaking manifolds, etc... Just FYI in PA holes in the rocker panels on a unibody car is a fail. Its specific to this in the SI licencing material found online. No tape, foam, or other temporary repairs allowed.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Wonder why they care about some rust holes on the rocker panels lol

[@shawnbauman5463]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics unibody car that is technically part of the structure. Its a box section. Plus if there is a hole it lets even more junk in to rust more structure.

[@A2Wx8]

Interesting that the local Honda dealer is always trying to get people for brakes here in NY as well. They once hit my sister for over a grand worth of brakes on her Civic, the next year they told her they were all bad again. She doesn't drive that much and doesn't ride the brakes, their excuse: "you park outside and they rust." They did the same with my Dad's Accord. I park my raggedy old Dodge outside and while the car may fill up with water, the brakes are just fine. She's going independent going forward to see if her brake issues "miraculously" fix themselves.

[@charleskosyjana1295]

Ivan, I certainly hope that those ARE NOT Harbor Freight jack stands that are the only thing holding up the car. We need you around in the future to teach us.

[@DavidScheiber]

Had a really really similar experience with a friend of mine and a local Honda dealer. He texted me saying he had a vibration and that the local Honda dealer said that the upper control arms were in need of immediate replacement. I found nothing wrong with the upper control arms other than a ripped boot on the right side which I replaced as the joint was still good (honda sells them separately). However when I looked at the lower ball joints the left lower ball joint was totally loose. It's also worth noting that the left ball joint and wheel bearing were brand new as apparently he hit a big pothole or something of the sort screwing the originals up. The right side was still the factory ball joint and was still tight. Also I don't think I'll be installing aftermarket ball joints on these vehicles anymore, they all seem to fail way too quickly.

[@jeremyanthony9300]

Fluid film . Eric O's favorite. I've used it too. It's awesome stuff.

[@jwharvey7167]

Great informative video of what folks can do in a home workshop. Have to pull you up on working on a car with open toed sandals on. Yes even working at home your safety is important.

[@paulsullivan6392]

Good catch Ivan. I recall as a teen living in the Philadelphia area getting my first car inspected after working on it. Everything was fine so the shop nicked me for a headlight adjustment. No vehicle inspections except smog here in Kommiefornia.

[@whatsnewonthemountain]

Live in Amador county in Northern CA. No safety or emissions inspections in rural areas. I remember the safety inspections in Ithaca, NY in the 60s when I was a teen.

[@alcocklake]

2017....took a 2010 Ford Escape to the local Ford dealer for an inspection to register in in Ontario (I'd owned it for a yr with recent Insp in the neighboring Province)...IT FAILED..according to the service advisor .needed $3400 worth of work.. the bottom of the oil pan had a few drops of oil as did the transmission..they wanted to replace valve cover gaskets and pan gaskets on the engine, transmission and transfer cases... I told them to F--- Off and took it to a local shop who passed it. BTW.. I had just clanged the oil and transmission fluid accounting for most of the oil (and I quote 3 or 4 drops) on the oil pan... PURE FRAUD on the part of the stealership. I have told this story to everyone who will listen...take your car to an independent garage. And YES there was a salesman standing beside the service advisor waiting to suggest that I buy a new car instead of repairing the 2010. Thanks for the video...

[@Azlehria]

Sadly even independents aren't automatically trustworthy, either. My cousin and his wife blew the engine in their car and had "the family mechanic" replace it with a low-mileage reman for "only" 6 large. A few months later the water pump seized up and ate the timing belt; when I tore it down I was breaking factory seals left, right, and center. Their "rebuilt" engine wasn't even _inspected_ properly!

[@DaddyBeanDaddyBean]

Great catch on the ball joint, but I wish we had the chance to see the "rusted out" rotors & bumper beam. DIY tip, when you borrow the ball joint press from the parts store, ask for the "master adapter kit" to go with it.

[@jakesnake_27]

Finally was able to watch this video- it wouldn't play through the iPad app, but viewing in the Safari browser worked perfectly. Great video as always Ivan! 👍

[@jasonbailey6797]

Last time I had my Toyota into the dealer for some recall work, they wanted to clean the throttle body for $285, $48 for a PCV valve, and of course a cabin filter change. I absolutely hate taking my car into the dealer. The minimum price point they want to sell is $400.00. Funny thing is, it needed an oil change and they didn't even offer. I had them change the oil and refused the rest of the service.

[@stealthg35infiniti94]

Dealerships will most often try to "Upsale " any Maintenance to increase their profit margin...Finding an Honest Mechanic is hard to find these days...Ivan is a gem that should be well taken care of and appreciated.

[@petahertz5855]

reminds me of a motorcycle mechanic that is extremely picky, picked out that my indicators where 4cm to close together and that my frame number is to hard to read so needs sanding slightly (on my nice paint) but totally missed the 3cm of play up and down in the rear swing arm!

[@frosty98412]

TRW makes great parts, a lot of OEM suspension and brake parts are made by them in Europe. Sad story with the stealership...good that the customers knows about you

[@christophertice7664]

Key work in Europe, their parts made in Malaysia and Taiwan are utter garbage.

[@ThisIS_Insane]

I think they decided they were finished with this vehicle, once they saw the rusted beam. "Let's throw this one a 'Guess-timate', and see if they bite." This was just high school shade tree stuff. RIDICULOUS. (Wishing you could name them LOL! Too risky, IK!) Happy Hump Day Ivan! LOL!

[@buzzsgarage]

Because your showing the world how to repair a car somewhat PROFESSIONALY and you make all of my hard work as a auto teacher and professional look like cavemen which is the image were trying to shake

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Patrick you have my highest respect as an automotive teacher! We need more people like you in the automotive industry! However me wearing sandals in my own garage has nothing to do with any "image" haha. I let the results speak for themselves. Feel free to use my electrical diagnostic videos in your classroom, I would be honored 🙂 That's where young techs can really grow and learn to love the profession.

[@robertvincent5678]

Brake rotors have to be below minimum thickness to fail,, measure with a caliper to make sure it's within spec. The bumper beam yes I can see because if it has any buckle in it than there is no strength. Good job Ivan, I've worked with alot of ASE mechanic's who don't know their head from their A$$.

[@mrtoastyjr]

Rusted rear beams fail in pa, it’s a unibody vehicle and it’s part of the structure of the body. What’s really scary is when you see rotted out beams on odyssey’s with car seats in the 3rd row less than a foot in front of the rotted out beam. One good rear ending and that car seat will end up in the front seat. I won’t put stickers on cars with rusted out beams. Is there a chance it will be ok, sure, but there is that chance that some one will get hurt and I’m not willing to take that. The rotors are bad but I would probably just end up noting it and not failing. The missed ball joint is completely unacceptable, no questions.

[@AHairyBiker]

Now I'm confused. I've seen Eric O's "show" where he implies bottom ball joints aren't part of the inspection. So presumably it's different in different states? In the UK it's one size fits all. And I agree those rotors are stuffed. Discs we call them here, I mean UK was the first country to equip a car with them in 1902, to a Lanchester... so Discs it is.

[@jblyon2]

In the US, if a state has an inspection program (some don't), the criteria are different from state to state. Some, like CT where I grew up, only do an emissions check, where most others with inspection programs also do safety inspections as well. What is required to be checked will vary, as will the shops who actually check everything they're supposed to check... I fully support the spirit of safety checks, but all too often shops can use them to pressure owners into repairs that aren't actually needed. Double edged sword.

[@dalefrolander3583]

I bought a brand new 1984 Isuzu Pup and it didn't come with a rear bumper. A lot of little trucks didn't come with rear bumper back then. We welded one up out of steel pipe.

[@ManicMender]

@Pine hollow auto diagnostics Ivan, if you get a chance, pickup the harbor freight master ball joint adapter kit. It has the cup you made, plus is has a small adapter/sleeve that fits right on the stud and allows you to push the stud for that last little bit of pressing out. Its not expensive at all, and I've used mine for years on everything and all the adapters are still fine. Also, a small trick for ball joints, use your cut off wheel, and cut the stud off about a 1/4" above the ball, and use that thick flat surface to push on with your press. Makes these ball joints much easier then stacking all those adapters.

[@shawnbauman5463]

I love how quick people throw dealerships under the bus. They should not have missed the ball joint for sure. Saying all dealerships are stealer ships is like saying all independent shops are good. I see a LOT of Nissan's that roll into my bay that should have failed a PA state inspection but have a fresh sticker. Just today i had a older Nissan Pathfinder, fresh SI sticker. Has a bad u joint, i can hear and feel it (vibration) when i test drove it but im stealing.....yeah Okay. Not to mention the dozens of Nissan's ive fixed that other shops threw parts at, often with no parts required but im stealing according to many of you.....yeah okay. How about we judge things equally, it comes down to the individual shop or dealership and specifically the technician. Lumping everyone together makes you as bad as those that are dishonest. So stop it.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

No one is lumping anything together. Just embarrassing that they missed a ball joint that would have failed before the next inspection. Doesn't matter if it's a dealership or independent :)

[@shawnbauman5463]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics some of the comments are lumping IMHO. I agree it should not have been missed by anyone. My guess is given its free, they gave it to a luber goober.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@shawnbauman5463 ha yeah there are a lot of stereotypes of the "stealership"...some are valid. I try not to judge but some cases are just ridiculous haha

[@Fix_It_Again_Tony]

Unfortunately, if you take an older car with some miles on it to the dealership, they immediately see an opportunity to sell you a new car. Interestingly my girlfriend took her '08 Accord to a dealer in Hanover, PA for inspection a couple years back. They told her the same BS about rusty rotors. I maintained that car and Honda's of that generation were notorious with rear brakes so I knew the condition of the brakes was good. She called me to ask me what to do and I had the technician go out to the car and describe the problem. I proceeded to walk through the PA State Vehicle Code inspection section with him - location of the rust, pad wear limits, rotor wear limits, fluid leaks, etc. By the end of the conversation he said it was passable, but next year it was going to need changed. It's like Honda has a thing about rusty rotors in this part of the country. Rotors are going to rust on the hats and the OD. What was dangerous five minutes before in the brake system was now passable. We took the car to my independent the next year with the same rotors. Car passed no questions asked. Both inner and outer pads were making full contact and everything was within wear limits. I am not going to say safety inspections are not important. In the snow belt especially, they are very important. I used to live on the western side of PA and the state to Ohio did not have safety inspection. You would see absolute rusty junk on the roads with Ohio plates. You can't tell me the maintenance on those cars is up to date. What they check in PA are critical items. Brakes, ball joints, lights, structure, etc. It's up to the consumer to find a honest shop. TRW is a suspension OE for BMW. I am sure those joints are fine.

[@robertopenheimer1451]

In some states if your vehicle inspection fails and you do not chose to let the shop that failed it enact the repairs you must return it to them after having the issues resolved in order to get a pass.

[@jamesmiller3297]

I hope you would agree that there are just as many bad Independent Techs as bad Dealer Techs out there. It is a 2-way street, my friend. I have had some customers tell me "My Mechanic fixed that for me" and all I can think is WTF were they thinking, while I am nodding yes to the customer. Even if I were to say anything, tempers would flare because I work at the dealer. But hey, they still came by the dealership.

[@fuseone]

From working in the field the last 12 years. I have found there is bad techs every where now. I blame shops for this mostly due to low pay , and lack of training.

[@87FordMudder]

I see the same thing in machine shops. They can't understand why quality is suffering, but they only pay $25CAD (like $19 USD, but with more taxes). Guys aren't gonna be bringing their A game for money like that.

[@JohnSRosamond]

It seems that the dealership did a cursory inspection and when they found enough (for them) to fail the car, they stopped and simply didn't complete the inspection (it was "free"). Failure on the dealerships part - they probably told the tech not to finish, or they make it so the tech can not finish once failed.

[@KECOG]

Not a mechanic here, but what about FINISHING an inspection before they pass judgment? could have some people seriously endangered. Thought comes to mind, how many others have driven off from their inspection, not aware of the danger they could be in? (I have had a control arm rusted through, but didn't know it . . . only found out later when the car broke down on a nearly empty street, early morning.)

[@stargazer7644]

This makes no sense. Why in the world wouldn't you finish? Every extra thing you find is potentially more money you could make. And let's say the customer says, ok, fix my brakes for an unreasonable fee - then you come back and say, oh, now you need new ball joints? You think that's gonna fly?

[@NickMyers1]

Now Ivan, this car would pass inspection in New York! Floppy ball joints are AOK! Crazy what gets missed. He should feel very lucky to have gone for a second opinion...

[@davewallace9048]

I’ve done hundreds of them air chisel with a blunt end.. pops it right now!! Install from the top with the air chisel!!

[@alreadydead86]

I have a NH inspection license. I would fail the rotors and bumper rebar if rotted. But I also check ball joints!

[@milfordcivic6755]

I'm glad I have 2 independent shops I do business with. The Honda dealer service departments are just awful in New Hampshire.

[@arthurfricchione8119]

Just another reason now a days to stay away from the dealer. They rip you off when you buy the car and then overlook an important suspension component. Time to find a local honest shop. Very hard to find nowadays. Good video Ivan. You and wife stay well Artie ❤️

[@pookatim]

Would have liked to see the bumper and rotors to know what the dealership was seeing.

[@kellyrjohnson7693]

I'd have liked to see the rear bar too, but you can see the backside of the rotor in one of the shots of the old ball joint. They look pretty well worn in with a big rust ridge along the edge. I'm sure they could stand to be replaced but I agree, if the pads are bedded in and the brakes are working well I don't see a safety issue.

[@2aminitials]

For a safety inspection there should be rules on what passes or fails, not what someones idea of a pass or fail is.

[@kellyrjohnson7693]

@@2aminitials Oh I agree, but I'm not familiar with how the PA inspection requirement is written, so I can't give an accurate pass/fail.

[@2aminitials]

@@kellyrjohnson7693 I understand. I looked at PA inspection rules and a fail on a rotor is a score deeper that 0.015". Page 42 of Vehicle Equipment and Inspection Regulation for Pennsylvania.

[@SurvivalInFlames]

During a safety inspection in Virginia you aren’t allowed to use a bar to check ball joints, only your hands. Also you can fail for improper pad contact as evidenced by not having a full contact pattern on the rotor. And if I remember correctly if an inspector fails a vehicle for something, it has to be fixed, regardless of who fixes it. You can’t go and get a “second opinion”. If you feel like you’ve been failed incorrectly you can call the state trooper that is responsible for the state inspections in that area and he will come and review the issue personally.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Wow sounds like some questionable laws lol

[@sarahendrix3132]

Excellent work on diagnosis and remedy! Wish you lived close as I know you could drill right down with the issue on my pilot as well as have checked out my (new to me) used 2010 Honda Accord Coupe V6 pre purchase! Glad good mechanics like you are around though, and the cool thing is even from PA I can watch your videos for repair reference from IN! KZbin for auto knowledge and repair is worth its weight in gold...for that anyway and I appreciate you being an asset to this!!! Again, thanks Ivan ;)

[@mikeaho4143]

I agree with you Ivan. Ball joints way more important than rusty rotors or bumper beam. I love the Macgyver on the balljoint press.

[@jumpinjojo]

Going shirtless with the cutoff wheel. A true man!

[@Mark-jp9dz]

In UK there can be the same type of problem with failure of the test being used as a means to get more work for the garage. However, there are some organisations that ONLY do the tests, and if you need a repair you need to take the vehicle elsewhere. So they have no axe to grind for failing vehicles unnecessarily. Gets my vote every year!

[@SerenoOunce]

In NY they may inspect the ball joints but can't fail you for them. Tire pressure: Check. Tire attached to the vehicle: doesn't matter. Ridiculous!

[@Paul1958R]

The dealer overcharging? Im shocked... God bless Paul (in MA) ps in MA a shop that does an incomplete inspection can have its inspection licence suspended. All inspections in MA are video recorded.

[@paulstandaert5709]

Honestly, the rate of incidents between states with and without safety inspections have no statistical correlation to justify having the inspections. It is government lobbying for the chain shops to make more money. It's like patching a tire with a puncture too close to the sidewall. It is apparently perfectly safe to keep driving with the nail still in it, mostly sealing the hole, but it is dangerous to have a patch in there.

[@blair683ify]

Great find! But that rotor you took off to replace the ball joint is garbage. Regardless if the pads have life left or not. That back pad is only contacting with an inch or two of the rotor. I have also diagnosed rattles on them Honda’s to find that the entire rear bumper bar rusted off. The bar was bouncing around in the plastic bumper cover.

[@keltecshooter]

My daughter recently went to Ford for a recall and added an oil change/rotation/alignment on her Focus , was told all lug nuts rusted and it would be 200 bucks to replace them !!! We call them Stealerships for a reason......

[@mthocr1717]

Love to see a Video on American vs Euro style testing (state inspections vs government run specific centers in Europe). Do you think testing in USA is strict enough? Many of the cars I see in your videos would not be allowed on the road here.

[@chrisfreemesser5707]

Vehicle inspections here in the US are done at the state level. Some states don't require any type of inspections at all. States that do inspect cars have their own specific rules and criteria for passing...some test emissions, others don't. It would probably be best if all states did inspections the same way but that'll never happen.

[@kinglangren]

I live in Oklahoma and we don’t even have inspections

[@mthocr1717]

As an example here any damage or leaking of grease from any balljoint, drop link, C.V. etc is an instant fail. They also test all lights on the dash to make sure airbag light comes on and goes off, abs light etc to make sure they have not been bypassed. Rust can only be surface, any hole anywhere is a fail

[@danielmunson6131]

I personally do a safety check with every oil change. Don't take much time to look at a few key spots like ball joints.

[@ColdWarVet607]

Yeah... I agree, the wheel not falling off is way up there...yikes!!!!!!!!

[@MrSuperheterodyne]

That bottom ball joint gives me the creeps. Imagine that popping off. No thanks. Changing them was easy on my old van, they just bolted on nice and easy - which was a good thing because they needed replacing every year thanks to the rough roads that I sometimes need to go down.

[@williegillie5712]

I hope he takes it to another place for inspection. Nice ball joint replacement Ivan.

[@dreamer2355]

Some States don’t require ball joints to be part of the safety inspection which is ludicrous. I believe Eric O from SMA mentioned this a few years ago in one of his videos

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Every car that comes into my shop I check the oil level and ball joints as a courtesy 😉

[@dzrdr65]

OK, the quick view of the rotor I would fail it in NH state insp. Rust has progressed to a point that you are losing 30 or 40% of available friction surface. What I am seeing up here is a delamination of the wear surface of the cast iron. Put that rotor on a break lathe and you would see rust creeping under the cast iron friction surface and the top layer of the rotor is now spongy under compression below where it has already flaked off. Less friction area= less braking. Not sure if it would matter on a piss ant honda but I doubt they use more brake then the engineer say's is the minimum it needs. Ball joint they should have caught. What else did they miss?

[@stewpid1215]

Wow! Surprized a Honda guy missed that ball joint! I'm also surprized you would pass those rotors. They would fail here. (Canada)

[@kenman1717]

I seem to remember Eric O doing one on an s10 a few years ago. Towed in, lower ball joint was separated. He said it had a new inspection sticker on it, and if i recall he said according to NY state inspection, ball joints were not included in the safety inspection, but he always checks them. And it is safety if you think about it. Here in Canada, ball joints are a big thing on all Government inspections.

[@ronevans4772]

Rust on brake rotors is not addressed in the PA inspection code. We have had 3 different QAO,s over the years tell us 3 different things. One guy said rusty rotors stop better ( he was a retired state trooper) another said fail them outright (retired mechanic) and the last was most logical saying if it does not stop well, fail it under the road test. Bottom line is, you can not fail just for being rusty. Bumpers are listed as "having to be solid", if there are areas missing, i may fail them. bumpers are there to protect in the case of rear impact.

[@WatchWesWork]

The dealership has to pay for frivolous things like shirts and closed shoes...

[@BobPegram]

Did I miss seeing the rotors in question?? Some one here says the passenger side rotor is bad, too much rust. I was just going to ask to see the rotors and bumper bar. The only reason I can imagine to fail a bumper bar is if it's so rusty it looks like it'll make a V bend or break from one angled hit.

[@mctobbsi]

TRW is a good brand. We use it a lot here in the other side of the pond :)

[@petar443]

Do you used TRW shocks or struts ? Are they good?

[@Nugetto]

I second this. Excellent quality brake parts (the black coating on the discs seems to do well even in salt/snow conditions) and they are an OEM. I once replaced a pair of drop links on a mk4 Jetta with 160 k miles / 19 years due to the rubber starting to crack, they were TRW. The new TRW parts had the exact same markings on them as the old ones minus the VW / Audi logo.

[@billsmith2212]

As a DIY , I usually put in Moog ball joints . I have had no problems with them . They may cost more , but I value my time and won't use no brand , WHITE BOX parts from companies that are unknown .

[@mctobbsi]

Petar I have probably put TRW shocks on at some point but can’t remember. I have however put on many many brake rotors and pads and to me they appear to be of high quality. :)

[@Antto]

Yeah TRW is good stuff.

[@goldduster318]

Those rotors are junk, 1/2 the swept area gone on the inboard pad. In a panic stop that's probably the difference between not being in an accident and totaling the car. I wouldn't sign my name to saying those are in good shape by any means. A friend of mine had the same car and they missed the upper joints being bad, and the LCA bushings being torn but said something about the brakes which were in similar condition to this. It was a whole $85 in parts to replace the pads and rotors with quality Raybestos stuff from RockAuto. Then the car stopped well.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

I did some panic stops. That rotor can lock up the wheel no problem, let the ABS do the rest :)

[@goldduster318]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics That doesn't mean the driver has the same level of leg strength you do, I'm sure the locking pressure and time to lock values are higher than what they would be with new condition parts - so the stopping distance is still longer. In the case of my friend's accord, we swapped on the Raybestos EHT pads (with GG edge codes) and he was immediately slamming himself through the windshield, it was braking so much harder at all pressures. He still raves about that to this day.

[@goldduster318]

@Robert Slackware You can absolutely still modulate it so what's the problem? It took some adjustment to go from poor to good stopping performance

[@stevedresen8497]

When the ball joint fails... you can still ride the lower control arm! It drops down like the landing gear on a plane. Though, it does make life a bit more exciting, when your making a turn when this happens.

[@zepyzepy2761]

In NY we are not allowed to FAIL a safety inspection for a ball joint.. it in the regulation that a ball joint is not a fail-able item..We have to say brakes pull because of ball joint movement.

[@nathanblanchard2357]

I'd fail those front rotors too, usable surface is too low. Good catch on the ball joint though

[@noeygarza6522]

Made look easy Ivan! Great Job!

[@stargazer7644]

Yeah, I had a vehicle failed for "rust rings" on the rotors. The area above and below where the pad touches the rotors was rusty - and why wouldn't it be? This was just a blatant case of the dealer trying to milk me for a brake job. I told them no thanks, got my failure sticker, took it straight to the next dealer and they passed it no problem. These people are crooks. I bought the vehicle new there. I'll never go back. They lost a customer for life for the profit on a bogus brake job.

[@HB-yq8gy]

Thank you great videos! The stealership always find potential bs profits for service only. Agree what you feel is reasonable or get a second opinion.

[@anonymuswere]

THIS is what I mean when i try to explain the PA "rust rule", and why they didn't even LOOK at the bad ball joint. basically, the law says that if something has ANY rust on it, it's an auto fail, and won't look at anything else. and some shops will outright refuse anything not mint. I've had shoppies tell me that was because too many guys got caught "sneaking" stickers over the years.

[@korvtm]

Haven't lived in PA for many years.I was stationed in APG,MD back in the sixties,my wifes car had PA plates.I took the car to the same place two years running,Mech there gave me a good inspection,both times.Passed the first time,second failed the car for a leaky front wheel brake cylinder.It was leaking.I replaced the cylinder,guy helped me bleed brakes, signed off on inspection.Wonder what happened to service like that.

[@idrisddraig2]

The simple solution in many European Countries - Inspection stations are indipendent of any garage. Licenced by the state. The station in logged into the computer network while the car is being inspected. Cheating is much more limited in either direction (un necessary work/dodgy cars).

[@hpelisr]

Ivan those rear calipers might be froze,and not making contact with the rotor. That service department should do more to explain if that is the case.

[@jdtractorman7445]

I don't know if NY State has the same rules they used to have, but you could not fail a vehicle for inspection for just bad ball joints. It seems crazy to me that the part that supports that amount of weight gets a pass at inspection time(even if bad like this one). Those were the rules about 14 or 15 years ago, don't know if they have changed or not. I would probably fail those brake rotors for looking like that, probably the pads are chewed or have weird wear patterns on them. New brake rotors especially for small vehicles can be had for fairly cheap as are pads. Regardless though, the customer should have been made aware of that ball joint. If a vehicle has upper and lower ball joints and one is found to be bad, I always thought it was good to at least suggest to the customer about doing all of them then do an alignment afterwards. If one is bad, the other are not far behind.

[@IamMuRdA313]

if your ball joint goes on a regular car, lets say a 99 buick park avenue, is your wheel going to fall off?

[@fosterlewis7360]

Ball joints are critical components of any suspension, yes. They attach the spindle to the control arms. So you could potentially lose the spindle if a lower ball joint comes apart: spindle jumps off arm going over a bump, pulling the failing ball completely out of socket > wheel is mounted to hub with lugs. Hub is attached to axle with axle nut. Other end of the axle pulls right out of the differential; it’s not positively affixed by any bolts or anything. > All that’s remaining holding the spindle on is the upper control arm, tie rods (steering rack), sway bar endlinks, and possibly strut rods. As the tire is tumbling/crashing against the road surface, it could well rip other components apart since tremendous forces are acting in planes that the components and fasteners were not designed to handle. Parts get bent. Things rip apart. Basically, if you lose a control arm you lose secure-location of the spindle. So the steering rack cannot keep the wheels at same castor and camber. So if you’re going 60mph and suddenly one wheel goes cockeyed: May you either be blessed with good luck, or have lived a life without regret. Both front wheels pointing the same way is absolutely necessary for maintaining control of the vehicle, much less for the ability to stop using the brakes. Always replace bad ball joints.

[@fosterlewis7360]

Also, yours was a very good question to ask! You don’t know until you know, right?

[@fosterlewis7360]

Aaaand, I’m an idiot. Or a simple shade tree mechanic. But I forgot to mention struts being something else attaching to the spindle. 😅 In any case, my point was more: whether or not a wheel would fall off entirely is not /exactly/ where your concern should be. The wheel becoming unsecured is essentially just as bad or worse. Instead of having one corner crash into the pavement and drag, you could have one wheel “doing its own thing” while you fight to steer the other one. And it could still rip the spindle off on any car regardless of the suspension type. Mainly talking about the fronts here, which are the most critical. But all ball joints, still-don’t play with crucial safety. If you wouldn’t knowingly drive a car without brake pads, you definitely shouldn’t drive a car with failing/failed ball joints. If you only drive 20mph or so everywhere, the risks would be lesser. But if you ever lose control, you could for instance run down a pedestrian.

[@IamMuRdA313]

@@fosterlewis7360 i understand now. thank you.

[@gradpadave6604]

I like your ingenuity and honesty; I just wish I could find someone like you near me, fat chance. You are a rarity that's for sure.

[@moparnut6286]

Got a 98 ram 1500 2wd that's coming tomorrow needs all four balljoints just as bad as the one you took out of the Honda .............in NJ there is no safety inspection......... very scary!

[@henrydunbar397]

Car dealers are in the business of selling new cars. Pointing out expensive repairs on your old car is one method of getting a sale. I have heard that exact pitch used while sitting in a dealers service waiting room.

[@ronaldderooij1774]

In the Netherlands (Europe) this car would fail for the rusty brake rotors, the balljoints and the foggy headlights. Nou doubt. I cannot see the rust on the back of the car. Rules state that the brake rotors must have less than 50 % surface rust and may not be grooved at all. Headlights must be clear and the image the light shines sharp at the edges. I know in Germany they are even stricter. There it is not even legal to restore the fogged up headlight glass as it gets 1 micron thinner by that. Illegal. So, you have to replace them over there.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Wow they must sell a lot of headlights :)

[@joekuntzman4016]

I think what's happening here is a lift inspection. Many suspension components are better tested on the ground, or even driven. I think it's a mistake to do the entire inspection with a vehicle hoisted. Good catch man.

[@erniewilkes3945]

Huh

[@michaelfontana5292]

Nice I like the nuts and bolts work more than the electronic stuff.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Really? I'll try to mix some "DIY" stuff in ;)

[@vincescalise4821]

My father bought a new Chevy equinox last year he took it back to the dealership here in Western Pa to get his free safety inspection and tire rotation when he took it home and parked it he left his front tires turned slightly and he noticed the tires were worn down considerably on the inside edges, and they never even told him about it they just put the sticker on and sent him on his marry way, it only has 12,000 miles on it I’m sure they didn’t want to do any warranty work on it , it should not even passed inspection like that I told him to take it back and raise hell but he just took it to Monroe muffler and got a four wheel alignment instead

[@chriswiseman5143]

Shirtless, guardless use of the death wheel using only nitrile gloves? Tsk tsk, Ivan!

[@mrb1864]

lol he bad ass, not even safety third .

[@int53185]

ABS of steel!

[@billsmith2212]

I ALWAYS use a full face shield when I use the cutter grinder . There are enough horror stories posted on You Tube . If a piece of that wheel breaks off and sticks in your eye - is it worth it ?

[@mattmanyam]

Everybody is indestructible, till something happens to them.

[@chriswiseman5143]

@@billsmith2212 You should wear a good thick shirt too. A welding apron would be better. I had a patient one time who wasn't wearing a shirt when his safety guard-less death wheel exploded. A piece went straight through his abdomen, cutting through his small intestines and colon before stopping against the front of his spine. He got 10 hours of surgery and 6 units of blood

[@Zib187]

The dealer tech got lazy. Once he found 2 items that qualified the car to fail inspection he stopped. I might drive a car with rusty rotors but I sure as hell wouldn't let my wife or daughter drive a car that way. As for the rusted out bumper beam I can see why that is an item that would fail a car because in a rear end collision you don't want the gas tank to rupture. Back 30+ years ago TRW suspension parts were my go to parts as they were made in the USA back then. They're probably made in China now but I don't see TRW parts around anymore because the auto parts stores rather stock the sub-grade parts & TRW parts are special order.

Same kind of idea, if any family are driving and ANYTHING is questionable i will get them to go in another car or if worst case i'll drive. I don't want them freaking out about something and potentially causing an accident. Family cars fixed first, your own cars at some later date lol. Also customer cars. they get fixed right away for many reasons.

[@mike_svt93]

A lower ball joint failure is a not a good thing and can have a chain reaction of additional parts damage, not to mention the safety of the occupants. I don't hesitate choosing oem replacement parts when dealing with the suspension. There's too much riding on that...literally. Just my 2 cents.

[@ti0039a340]

Honda dealers always miss the small important bits that costs little to fix but charges you big on surface rust. Nothing new even in other countries

[@lonwillis783]

Mike the disgruntled mechanic had to replace his 2001 Civic rear bumper beam to pass PA inspection.