Dealing with Traditionalist Catholics

Music written and generously provided by Paul Jernberg. Find out more about his work as a composer here: pauljernberg.com
Spanish translations by Vélez Translations, www.veleztransl...
I’ve seen a lot of attention given to the disruption that is caused by those pesky radical traditionalists, or rad-trads, in editorials, podcasts, and the like and I think it’s fair to say that they have a fairly bad reputation, especially, online for being intolerant, rude, cranky, and uncharitable.
And since, by some estimates, I might be considered a traditionalist myself, I thought I’d share some thoughts that will hopefully shift or at least expand your perspective on those quarrelsome rad-trads.
A couple points of points of contention that I want to focus in on is the comparison to the Pharisees in biblical times and the apparent intolerance and combativeness of traditionalists.
I myself was accused of acting like a Pharisee when I refused to continue attending a liturgical environment plagued with abuse and contempt for the Church’s instructions on liturgy, preferring, instead, to attend the Extraordinary Form or the Traditional Latin Mass where I knew those problems wouldn’t exist.
So, is that an apt comparison - traditional Catholics and the Pharisees, and if so, what was so bad about those Pharisees that we Christians might want to avoid?
It seems to me that the comparison between the pharisees and traditional Catholics is often made on the grounds of their strict adherence to their beliefs and refusal to compromise.
But is that really such a bad thing? Scripture, over and over again, admonishes us to keep the commandments and stand firm in our faith. Joshua 23:6 says, “Be very firm, then, to keep and do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses…”
1 Corinthians 15:58 says, "Be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord." Ephesians 6:13 says, “put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground…”
And John 2:17 summarized Jesus’ cleansing of the Temple from all profane things with the verse, “Zeal for your house will consume me.”
So religious zeal and steadfastness, is definitely encouraged in scripture and our faith tradition. So what is it about the Pharisees that we should be critical of? It was their pride and hypocrisy.
It’s a good thing for us to grow in our understanding and practice of the faith. There’s no doubt about that, but as we do so the focus of temptations that afflict us will be less concerned with a lack of courage and discipline and shift towards a lack of humility. The enemy would gladly allow us to grow in certain virtues if it means he can secure our soul through pride.
And yes, it’s not hard to encounter this kind of pride among traditional Catholics. But I think the impression that this is pervasive has more to do with public personalities who like to brand themselves as standard bearers of traditionalism.
And of course, celebrity Catholics are going to be even more tempted by pride and hypocrisy so I wouldn’t use some of those louder voices to shape your perception of the average traditional Catholic.
So what about the charge of being intolerant towards contemporary Catholicism? The current factionalism in the Church could be compared to something akin to a fight or a struggle and if you want to cast certain groups with a measure of blame, maybe the place to start is by asking who shot first. Because in any conflict, according to Church teaching, self defense is permissible and just.
Well, what we now consider Traditional Catholicism in the Roman rite, was, for hundreds of years, just Catholicism. It was what everyone believed and practiced. Then, half a century ago, certain Church leaders decided that the practice of the faith, especially the sacred liturgy, was inadequate.
In other words, they rejected it as it was and sought to renovate it with contemporary sensibilities. They didn’t consult the vast majority of Catholics who cherished their faith.
And in response, those who wanted to retain the practice of the faith that they been raised in rejected the innovations that were being imposed on them and for that rejection were branded as rigid and intolerant.
But in the whole transaction, that rejection goes both ways. Remember it was the renovators and innovators that first rejected the traditions of the faith as they were and used that as a premise to reinvent them.
So in my view, if we’re going to talk about Traditional Catholics as being intolerant, we should remember that it was the innovators who first expressed their intolerance for the traditional liturgy of the Church which means that the antagonism of traditionalists would be more accurately characterized as a measure of self defence rather than aggression.

[@BrianHoldsworth]

I'm seeing a few replies about my use of the phrase, "a few Church leaders," thinking that that's a reference to Vatican II. I'm always self conscious about length of the video, so sometimes I rush a detail to get to the point. By "some people", I wasn't talking about the council. I was referring to those who promoted abuses and unsanctioned changes which became normative after the council. Hymns replacing antiphons, bands and inappropriate instruments replacing organs and choirs, profane music, ad-orientum, loss of minor orders, loss of architectural appreciation of the mass, etc. And then there's the flood of bizarre and terrible formation in the seminaries. In my diocese, there are multiple generations of priests that have no familiarity with Thomism.

[@liberator275]

people are sick and tired of constant tinkering in the church. people are looking for stability especially during those trying times. vatican 2 introduced and approved constant change into the church. this can be evidenced by never ending innovations to the Novus Ordo Mass. Latin Mass offers stability but it's a stretch to compare Latin Mass catholics as pharisees. pharisees were strict law literalists. Latin Mass catholics want stability. stability versus literalism versus constant innovations of the vatican 2 springtime of the church. so much springtime that thousands of parishes are closing in germany and other western countries.

[@redimerfortitudo]

Brian.....that should’ve been obvious. The only reason I can see that people would’ve thought you were referring to Vatican II must be because they think the liturgical reforms were implemented at or directly as a result of Vatican II which is not the case. Perhaps a video on this would be good? I think there’s a lot of confusion around here with people swinging at shadows.

[@BrianHoldsworth]

@@redimerfortitudo Good point. I wish now I had mentioned this.

[@michaelbergfeld8751]

A very good understanding of the subject, as if you were there like i was. I may add that many left also because they simply weren't attracted any more by the quality and atmosphere that disappeared. In my opinion.

[@manub.3847]

I can no longer consciously remember the "change" from the Triniatian Rite (Latin Mass) to the Novo Ordo. As a European, however, I have the impression that especially in America, on the one hand due to the lack of information / instruction (the bishop participating in the council died half a year after the council) and the strong "individual thought" in society as a whole, there was a lot lost in communication. Sometimes it is not enough to read a recording if you do not know what the people involved were thinking. Here I cannot recognize this strong urge on the one hand or the other, that only one's own point of view, such as the conduct of a holy mass, is the "correct" one. Or that there are extremely strong differences in the implementation of a Novo Ordo mass.

[@tkcdeannajmj]

I love the Latin Mass and have found many great friends there.

[@tomthx5804]

There is a big difference between the TLM, as done by a thoroughly Catholic church, and the fake TLM's that are put on by the SSPX etc. The purpose of the church is not to find friends. It is to lead to your salvation. If you find a real Catholic TLM, fine, but as soon as they start talking about how bad Vatican II was, run for the hills. Soon they will try to convince you that freemasons have taken over the church, that our recent popes are evil, etc. They are a cult, pure and simple.

[@John-iq2zt]

Tom thx It’s you again 🤦‍♂️ Tom pretends very often to know what he talking about and just makes Claims ALONE without EVER backing it with evidence or logical argumentation. Essentially he’s saying, don’t listen to them. They are bad. Now that’s dialogue!

[@harvey364]

A minor point about terminology -- "Latin Mass" could be either the older (Extraordinary Form) or newer (Ordinary Form) style of Mass. Many Catholics forget that the Ordinary Form can be done in Latin! Few parishes offer that, but it is a great option to introduce traditional practices to a congregation that's not ready to experience the Extraordinary (or Tridentine) form.

[@pjsmith4369]

Hi Brian, I am also a musician. I can’t think why any musical instrument would be offensive to God. Look up all the instruments used in David’s time. The ukulele is the closest instrument to a lyre. Brought from Spain to Hawaii. Also, grew up in the Latin Mass. The only people who knew Latin were the priests and the very well educated who needed Latin for University. The rest of a typical congregation knew no Latin. Many people would say the Rosary while the priest was quietly mumbling for a long time, with his back to us. Never saw a long veil - women wore hats. There were some small white veils. Like doilies. No English translation anywhere. Nobody sang during Mass. Antiphon - we never heard the word. Children were not welcome - required to be seen and not heard. How did we sit still? Spankings allowed back then. Was there any division? Oh yes - wealthy, educated Catholics did not mingle with the lower classes. It was a different world in every way. Can’t really compare it to today. The Latin Mass today is different - children welcome, missals with English translation. Why long veils? Not a clue. English Mass only for me. Have never been to an irreverent Mass in my life. Devout then and devout now. What is in your heart - that is what God sees.

[@JeepGuy3]

@@tomthx5804 if it weren't for the SSPX. We'd have no Latin Mass.

[@Dean-qt3rp]

"Contemporary Catholicism". Well that's an interesting term. I think that is actually the issue. There really shouldn't be a 'Contemporary Catholicism", there should only be Catholicism, born from scripture and tradition from two millenia. Perhaps that is where the fundamental division occurs.

[@jontan9543]

@Ian yes we should involve like human, we should have woman priest because equality, feministism right? We should accept gay marriage because that what social acceptance today right? No church teaching should remain the same.

[@alessandramolo]

Definitely. And that “fundamental division” is called modernism, condemned by Pope Pius X as heresy in his encyclical Pascendi and his Oath Against Modernism.

[@Christofascist_Hup]

Alessandra Molo spot on. Fortunately we don’t have to waste time debating the topic Ian brings up because of St Pius X. Could you imagine how quickly the Church would collapse if we gave credence to him?

[@Christofascist_Hup]

Ian, I dare not put a hard date on it, my condescending worldly friend. If you’re seeking this in earnest, and not as an ideologue attempting to poke holes in a worldview, I’d advise reading the Catechism of Trent.

[@redimerfortitudo]

Ian Innovation and tradition aren’t necessarily in contradiction. The problem is when innovation either contradicts tradition or bears rotten fruits. The real problem here is disobedience to the Magisterium of the Church which if you actually look you will find in much greater abundance in the NO side.

[@billsd13]

God bless you. I attend the Latin Mass. I am grateful that I have one available. I go because I have grown closer to Jesus since I started.

[@darrelldw713]

My research has led me to believe we should only go to the TLM celebrated by a priest ordained in the traditional ordination rite by a bishop consecrated by the traditional episcopal consecration rite. The enemies of Christ who took over the visible structure of the Church I'm sure wanted to invalidate the sacrament of Holy Orders, and the evidence for that can be seen here: novusordowatch.org/?s=no+valid+ordinations Then there's the immeasurably important issue of the 1958 papal conclave, a good documentary on that being kzbin.info/www/bejne/aF65op2AjMSfha8 and much more is at kzbin.info/door/mJLcKSyO3CBtxJwddm0Ymg (the 3 min. 41 sec. segment there is itself enough to astound and disturb anyone, Catholic or not)

[@darrelldw713]

We should refuse in conscience to call the TLM the "Extraordinary Form." It is in virtually everything about 1500 years old, and should never have been sacrilegiously suppressed by "Paul the Destroyer" and replaced by the "human fabrication" (Ratzinger's description) of the supernaturally gutted Novus Ordo Missae, which certainly fits in well with the Novus Ordo Saeculorum.

[@Kitiwake]

Focus on any Mass will do the same

[@Kitiwake]

@@darrelldw713 the extraordinary form was a creature of Trent.

[@darrelldw713]

@@Kitiwake What Trent did was make the Roman Rite, which developed organically from apostolic times and is in all essentials the same as it was celebrated 1500 years ago, the only rite to be celebrated in the Latin Rite. An exception was made for any rite being celebrated that was at least 200 years old. Calling this holy yet criminally suppressed 1500 year old rite the "extraordinary form" is actually a blasphemous insult to God and to the Catholic faithful. What is now called the "ordinary form" is officially called "The Lord's Supper or Mass." Is there something wrong there? Something Protestant? Click on a link or 2 from my comment above. You may come to see that Francis is the logical product of what began in earnest at the vitiated conclave of 1958. "Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist. The Church will be in eclipse. The world will be in dismay." (Our Lady of La Salette, 1846) The approved Catholic mystic Anne Catherine Emmerich (1774-1824) had seen in her visions a “counterfeit church of darkness” occupying Rome at some time in the future - in an era when she also saw the priest facing the people when saying Mass. Priests were ordered to face the people while saying Mass beginning right after the Second Vatican Council ended in 1965. Padre Pio "around 1960," as Fr Gabriel Amorth, later chief exorcist of Rome, recalls, told him, "You know, Gabriele? It is Satan who has been introduced into the bosom of the Church and within a very short time will come to rule a false Church." (Interview with Fr Amorth by José María Zavala, in The Best Kept Secret of Fatima) Could it have been 1958 and Fr. Amorth was being discreet? In 1963, at the beginning of Paul VI's reign, Padre Pio embraced Father Luigi Villa three times, saying to him: "Be brave, now…for the Church has already been invaded by Freemasonry!" and then stated: "Freemasonry has already made it into the slippers of the Pope!" padrepioandchiesaviva.com/Padre_Pio___Fr.html Keep to the ancient way and custom of the Church, established by so many saints under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit." (St Angela Merici) Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ. (St Athanasius) “Satan’s masterstroke is to have succeeded in sowing disobedience to Tradition through ‘obedience’ to those who betray it.” "Is it tradition? Ask no more." (St John Chrysostom)

[@jend9559]

Well balanced perspective. Not bad for such a touchy topic. After growing up in a Catholic "Charismatic Renewal" parish and just now discovering traditional Catholicism, I am hungry for more tradition and more truth and more beauty. "Traditionalism" has helped me to focus on the will of Christ and not on how Christ makes ME feel. Less of me, more of Him. It has been a gift.

[@challengable]

Grab a 1962 missal. About $75. Good place to start. Pray the mass, holy rosary. Find “ What Catholics Believe” on KZbin. Also the Fatima center on KZbin

[@workin4alivin585]

That has been my experience as well. Well said. I don't have an issue with charismatic expressions per se (I enjoy them, too), but the biggest danger, once again, is focus on us, our experiences, our feelings, when the focus should be on God. Our feelings are a catalyst toward a more mature, God-centeted faith. Feeling is a starting point for us weak, passion-driven creatures, but it is not, cannot be, the summit. We are training our souls for Heaven, where God and then "the other" are paramount.

[@merynco]

Considering others needs one gets closer to the Lord in service to them which is essentially what you said. That isn't traditional or new it's found in seeking and doing God's will. In that we grow in Christ Jesus and learn to live in his rhelm not in the world. As far as the charismatic aspect I feel there's great need of praise. God wants us to thank and praise him for he is so awesome we need a way to espress this without the opinionated rad trads saying we need proper dress and Decorum. imho. We also must put on the armor of God thorough his word to teach, battle evil in our lives and protect our families. God bless you always 🙏🙌🕊🔥

[@challengable]

HSdriven obedience, repentance, contrition, reparation, devotion, outweighs praise, why? Because all of the above are praise lived on Gods terms. Not outward praise using worship. Always approach the holy sacrifice presented from heaven to earth in coat and tie. To interview for work, we wear such formal clothes. How much more is Christ worthy of such respect. Suffer for the sake of God, it’s the only way.

[@tomthx5804]

There is a difference between Catholic traditionalism, and the rad trads. Regular Catholic traditionalism seeks a return to some of the traditional ways of the Catholic church, including the TLM etc. However the rad trads constantly want to fight about everything. They reject the magisterium of the church and believe they are really in charge of the Catholic church. They are a little bit nuts. They lure people in by seeming to be seeking holiness, then gradually they convince you to hate the pope, hate Vatican II, etc. Before you know it, you have joined a cult who is totally separate from the Catholic church. Beware.

[@ViscountDI]

Ironically, "traditionlism" is the future of the Church

[@suigeneris2663]

Well said. Unfortunately.

[@williamisabell9539]

Before the Freemasonic Novus Ordo arrived the term Traditional was a way of life not a counter term in Catholicism.

[@tomthx5804]

Not really. It depends on what you mean by traditionalist. If you mean SSPX, anti vatican II stuff, where they worship the excommunicated Lefebvre, then you are wrong. That is a sick outfit that will crumble in a few years as soon as people figure out they are schismatic. The trouble now is some warped people, like Taylor Marshall, use "traditionalism" as a lure to get you to break away from the Catholic church. Marshall is an SSPX clown in disguise. If anything, he is trying to infiltrate the church and start his own little sect that is separate from the real Catholic church. However, like Pope benedict said, the TLM and the NO will enrich each other, and we may end up with a blend of both styles. And yes, praying the rosary is good, eucharistic adoration is good, communion on the tongue is good. But too often, those things are used to trick others into leaving the catholic church and joining the nutty lefebvrist cult. Just ask if they are against Vatican II. If they are, they are not Catholic, they reject the magisterium of the church and are essentially the same as Martin Luther.

[@ragejinraver]

@@tomthx5804 Why don't you read archbishop Lefebvres Books instead of listening to Michael Voris and church militant`s lies . If it wasn't for the great Archbishop Lefebvre there would be no Latin Mass . Vatican 2 which was not even dogmatic was created by the Freemasons and six Protestant ministers. Look at the near destruction of the faith in the last 60 year's . You don't like Taylor Marshall and real Traditional Catholic s because we hold the true dogma of faith and truth. What do you think the third secret of fatima was about it was about the destruction of the faith because of Vatican 2 .

[@standrewdaily]

It's also the present

[@FreeNationRadio]

This is a nuanced take. The warnings about the temptation of pride within the Traditionalist circles are very real. And I generally consider myself "traditional". It's easy to use traditionalism to put on airs and conceal your flaws and mistakes behind it as a shield. But traditionalism in and of itself isn't bad.

[@thecatholicrabbi4170]

Could you explain further, please?

[@FreeNationRadio]

@@thecatholicrabbi4170 which part needed explaining?

[@thecatholicrabbi4170]

@@FreeNationRadio could you give more details, or examples I think I am meaning, of traditionalism used to put on airs. I'm really into what you are saying. Thank you :-)

[@FreeNationRadio]

@@thecatholicrabbi4170 I think occassionally it's used to cover up serious personal issues, as I found with someone I knew who was really into TLM and allegedly SSPX and yet abandoned their own child in the cold and snow... one of the reasons why Jesus said the "woe to the Pharisees" was because he was aware they were hypocrites, and the cruelty of some within the Trad movement is palpable. The Pharisees did everything "to the letter" but they had hatred and spite in their hearts. So it is with some in the Trad community, and I think the speaker here is being pretty charitable to them (which is his right).

[@thecatholicrabbi4170]

@@FreeNationRadio Wow! All I can say is AMEN! I agree.

[@SteveAubrey1762]

As a recent convert to Catholicism, I find myself bewildered by all these divisions. I'm still too new, I'm still learning about my Church. The more I learn, the more I love her.

[@debb3428]

'm going to put this out many times on many posts today. Watch Father Chris Alar's (of the Marion Fathers) lecture series, it's amazing: kzbin.info/door/-z10o42s5ZsZ-RTID7ZOZw. Also, Bishop Barron's "Word on Fire" website has great teachings and resources: www.wordonfire.org/bishop-robert-barron/. And also look at Catholify.com website....it is so incredibly engaging and brings us together.

[@crowbirdryuell]

Becareful with the Rad Trad and Sedevecantiat

[@rebeccaanderson5626]

@@crowbirdryuell You wanna restore French Monarchy

[@joshuatomeny3451]

@@edm-london1660 Such a great point!

[@Donnybrook10]

buckle up. Suffice it to say, the Catholic Church has been infiltrated by a group intent on "liberalizing" it. It happened at Vatican 2 in the 60s when the group of Vatican hierarchy arbitrarily made dramatic changes to the liturgies. Now, we see Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi publicly taking communion which is a direct insult to traditional Catholics. The fact they are Pro-Choice and have been instrumental in advancing the abortion agenda makes us sick. I'm in my 50s and the Church does not even resemble what I grew up with and under this Pope, it's only getting worse. He recently condemned the Latin Mass which is another sacred institution among Catholics. These are only a few points of contention.

[@MsRosaJo]

Thank you so much for these videos. I found you by accident when searching for content about dressing modestly and it wasn't until several weeks later that I discovered you were Catholic so I was very curious to hear about your conversion and now I'm hooked. I've had a few episodes in the past years where I've considered learning more about Catholicism but it wasn't until I listened to your videos that it made sense to me. I told my husband about my curiosity, showed him your videos and now we're both going to attend RCIA. It feels like a coming home in many ways.

[@workin4alivin585]

How exciting!!! As a 25-yr. revert, I want to cheer you on on your journey. Prepare to be amazed! And if the RCIA classes aren't doing it for you, continue them, but supplement with other sources of information. St. Paul Center for Biblical Studies Formed.org EWTN Ascension Press Sophia Press etc. I'll be tucking you both in my prayers! May zeal for Our Father's house consume you (3rd Glorious Mystery).

[@darrelldw713]

Instead of attending RCIA, which is part of the Vatican II "counter-church" (Archbishop Vigano's term for it), you can and should receive instruction in the traditional pre-Vatican II Catholic faith. I believe Vigano has a prophetic role for our time of deep crisis in both the Church and the world. He hasn't said anything yet about the 1958 papal conclave but he has said that Vatican II should be "discarded and forgotten." For more reasons to take instruction independent from the present institutional church, see, e.g., kzbin.info/www/bejne/aF65op2AjMSfha8 and there is much good material at vaticancatholic.com (except for what they say about Baptism of desire and the Antichrist, as far as I can see).

[@StNicolausVI]

go on The Coming Home Network!

[@HabibJackson]

Jesus was a pure traditionalist, Pharisees were pure hypocrites.

[@jamesmorrissey2297]

Jesus proclaimed the Gospel in Aramaic. What happened to that sacred translation?

[@OrthobroAustin]

James Morrissey It’s called the Peshitta

[@Christofascist_Hup]

Jesus read the Torah in Hebrew, not the vernacular, while at synagogue. The reason for reading scripture at Mass is not because Catholics don’t read the Bible and only hear the word of God at Mass, it’s because scripture literally sanctifies the air, much like incense.

[@itsnando20]

James Morrissey Latin was chosen to be the universal language of the Roman Catholic (universal) church. It brought people together.

[@jamesmorrissey2297]

@@Christofascist_Hup He spoke the masses in Aramaic. The sermon on the. John 6 the living bread discourse. All the conversations with the Apostles. Remember until 1054. Half the church had their Mass in Greek. Until St. Jerome the bible was in Greek.

[@plusbonus1165]

The hair just gets better.

[@richardbenitez7803]

I would love to see pic of Brian and entire family all with the exact same hair.

[@bobdole347]

The hair? There are modern methods that are easier to use than the traditional ones

[@nmatthew7469]

It gets bluer at the Novus Ordo.

[@macseanchaidhe4263]

He’s a great messenger. Yet the soy boy hairdo detracts from his factual and highly effective communication. 💈

[@yankees4551]

Trying to play in the next Jesus movie?

[@gingerherringtonSTMM]

Great video, Brian. Thank you for your calm demeanor and brilliant, incisive insight. Your peace invites others to consider your perspective. You truly "propose" the Faith rather than "imposing" it. Bravo!

[@claytonlee9570]

I was an altar boy from 1964 to 1966. One Sunday I was serving facing the tabernacle. The next Sunday I was serving facing the people.

[@crowbirdryuell]

Just stop already -Former Sedevecantist

[@collinadkisson4437]

@@crowbirdryuell My mother in law got up and left when the priest called God a "he/she" from the pulpit. - Current sedevacantist.

[@NovusDisorder-so6un]

Why didn’t good Catholics recognize what was happening before their eyes? And resist? I was not alive then

[@steakfilly5199]

How would you fair in a time where many bishops were actively saying Christ was a creature and the Pope did nothing about it

[@amyschlegel1180]

⁠@@NovusDisorder-so6unIt was my parents’ generation. They knew it was happening to some degree, but they were repeatedly told it was a good thing - a “springtime in the Church.” Also, keep in mind, these changes were happening in every aspect of life in society not just in the Church. How could one resist?? There was no one to go to - the bishops, priests and nuns in each parish and diocese called the shots, and individuals had no say. When the priest ordered that the altar rail be taken out, for example, there was nothing that individuals or small groups of people could do about it. There was no Internet, no way to communicate with or organize large groups of people. When they did complain, they were branded as complainers and nothing changed. Keep in mind that many, many people liked the modernized Catholic Church, at least at first, so there would have been a lot of pushback.

[@brockmackin8913]

I was born in the late 1960s. As such my entire living memory is of the Mass of Paul VI, which I believe, when celebrated reverently, is a beautiful liturgy. I did attend a licit Tridentine Mass several years before the death of St. John Paul II. So to say that this liturgy was not available before Pope Benedict's Motu Propio is incorrect. What Pope Benedict XVI did was make it easier for a priest to choose to offer the older liturgy without needing approval from his Ordinary. And after the Motu Propio from Pope Francis, the same parish still offers the Tridentine Mass and the FSSP is still alive and well. I have spoken with many priests who grew up with, and even presided at Tridentine Masses, as well as lay Catholics, including all four of my grandparents, both of my parents, and numerous other people who are old enough to have experienced both liturgies. Most of them believe that the newer rite gives them a greater spiritual benefit than the older one. However, for those who feel connected to the Tridentine Mass I have no problem with it being available to them, and in fact think it should be. My problem lies with those who argue that the Mass of Paul VI is somehow illicit or illegitimate or a sacrilege, even when celebrated according to the rubrics. My problem is with those who assume that because they attend the Tridentine Mass that they are "better Catholics" than those who attend the newer liturgy. And one final thought, based on my studies of sources available regarding liturgies in the first 300 years or so of the Church, I believe that the "Novus Ordo" Mass is probably closer to those very early Masses than the Mass that was developed during the medieval and renaissance periods.

[@francescop.c.3298]

Spot on! 👏

[@ReminisceLogic]

I would attend an eastern divine Liturgy to get a better idea of early church. Very happy your Latin mass is still available. However, many Latin masses have been shut down after the pope released his moto propio. I have seen entire communities, thriving communities of faithful people get scattered and a lot of damage done to families. Both can be available, but a lot of youth and young families are craving the traditional mass. The question I have is, if it is encouraged for the faithful to do extra in their Catholic lives... why is the Extraordinary Form so hindered?

[@brockmackin8913]

@@ReminisceLogic My perception is that the Pope's concern is that many of those who feel drawn to the Tridentine Mass are given to divisive rhetoric, demeaning the Mass of Paul VI, the Pope, and so forth. I believe that if the traditionalists were more charitable towards what has come to be known as the Ordinary Form and would stop insulting the Ordinary Form and those who worship in that form, Pope Francis would not have issued his Motto Propio. I have attended a Byzantine Rite (Ruthenian to be specific). It is a beautiful liturgy and is in fact quite ancient. And the major elements may look a little different, but for the most part, the major elements of the Divine Liturgy of John Chrysostom are present in the "Novus Ordo" Mass.

[@FideiDefensor-g9t]

@@ReminisceLogicthe Divine Liturgy is not a good reference point for the liturgy of the Early Church. Even the liturgiologists - if I might use such a term to describe them - of the Eastern Orthodox Church recognize the irony of the Western liturgical reform in the name of false antiquarianism (which was decried in Mediator Dei), since the Roman Mass was and is the closest thing we have to the liturgy of the Early Church. The Divine Liturgy has been much more plastic historically, and was shaped by the Eastern response to various heresies, which is why it features so many processions and lasts so long…

[@normkocol1324]

I have been classified as a Rad Tad, I do not take offense for defending the teachings of our church Great presentation Brian

[@withremnanthearts]

When me and my lad trads roll into a Vertus Ordo with our 1952 drip, rad trads be like "Yo!"

[@dammardedinamarca1017]

With Remnant Hearts when my trads and I ...

[@ktiger32698k]

I just wanted to tell you, I started following this channel thanks to your very tempered approach regarding these sometimes controversial topics. I really, really appreciate it. I have often found myself torn between very passionate liturgy arguments from both traditionalist and more contemporary Catholics, so I love that you talk about these things in a very nuanced way.

[@southpawhammer8644]

I was evangelical for 27 years, so it's no surprise I prefer the Norvous ordo. But I really do enjoy the Latin mass, I try to attend a trad mass once a month. I think every parish should have a Latin mass for at least one of the mass times on Sunday.

[@_chados]

Simply wow. I literally cried listening to you. As a catholic who prefer traditional way, I never thought I had been rejected, but that idea and the idea of self-defense is such an aha moment. I should pray for the Church indeed.

[@emiliomilian369]

If being a “traditional” Catholic means to be devout, to not condone sin in the name of “tolerance,” or to be faithful to the roots of the faith- what does it mean to be a modern Catholic?

[@pinoysarisari7374]

Ask Blessed Carlos Acutis...A boy of great obedience to the Pope and love of Novus Ordo mass and the Eucharist of Novus ordo...Now this 10 October 2020 , the millennial kid will be Beatified....

[@emiliomilian369]

pinoy sarisari I heard. He is like a hero. Definitely a model for all of us.

[@damianthebeholder6775]

A small minded sheep

[@elf-lordsfriarofthemeadowl2039]

@@damianthebeholder6775 with a big heart.

[@deocrat]

@@elf-lordsfriarofthemeadowl2039 a big heart doesn't compensate for the gullible mind. Corruption of the mind will corrupt the heart

[@peskyjesuit9021]

I'm a new Catholic. What sealed it for me was the Eucharist, the REAL PRESENCE in particular. I also was blown away by the reverence shown in the Catholic Church. I'd watch stuff online and what you like is what you like. The N.O. Mass doesn't hold a candle next to what I see in a TLM. Give me the traditional; it transcends everything else. BTW it is very humbling.

[@thespaniard3988]

I've been wat thing your videos for about 3 years now. It's great to see your videos get better and better. I admire your commentary and think you accurately represent traditional Catholicism. Thank you for politely and humbly making the case for traditional catholics and rejection of stereotypes used to undermine our arguments.

[@2555Edu]

I don't know, you weren't agressive at all while presenting your point haha, I'd say that we as members of the Church, we need to redescover what a true catholic life is, most catholics nowadays don't even know what they're praying every sunday. We need to read more about our faith, its history, teachings, etc

[@aelbereth6690]

I agree. There's a lot of woeful ignorance of the faith among the average Catholic. That's not their fault ‐ they just haven't had the catechesis, and even many of the parish priests I've met seem to promote a very basic, dumbed-down version of the faith. All well-meaning but so limited and narrow, with no reference to the richness and power and holiness of our Catholic history and tradition. It's as if nothing of any value or interest existed before 1963 (or 1973, in fact). The older parishioners seem stuck in a 1960s teenage rebellion, in which "tradition" is synonymous with parents, teachers, authority and "the man". They just don't want to know more or have their fixed assumptions challenged. Older Catholics who lament the loss of what they grew up with are branded "nostalgic" and outdated or "dinosaurs". Younger Catholics, converts or reverts like myself, enthusiastic to discover the wonderful traditional heritage that's been sidelined for so long, are just regarded as weird. So much knowledge has been ignored and lost, and the Church is poorer for it, and frankly a lot less attractive to seekers and outsiders.

[@debb3428]

Watch Father Chris Alar's (of the Marion Fathers) lecture series, it's amazing: kzbin.info/door/-z10o42s5ZsZ-RTID7ZOZw. Also, Bishop Barron's "Word on Fire" website has great teachings and resources: www.wordonfire.org/bishop-robert-barron/. And also look at Catholify.com website.

[@Donnybrook10]

agreed...but this Pope and his hirelings do not want us rediscovering what the Church is. They want to dictate what the Church is and have us sit down and shut up.

[@TheMacDonald22]

​@@aelbereth6690 as a 16 year old who just converted from protestantism I agree 100%

[@RobinPoe]

I attend a Traditional parish and I hear the term "Lex orendi, lex credendi" a lot. I am a convert, and initially I attended a Novus Ordo Mass. I found it to be more of a challenge to my faith rather than a support, to the point that I fell away from the Church. When I did come back, it was to a traditional parish. I realize that in the Church, usually among the Dominicans, there is always the Unicorn: a reverent and dogmatically correct Novus Ordo Mass, but the structure of the Novus Ordo is to prone to sacramental abuse.

[@RestingJudge]

I have a very similar experience. My issue has been that on paper Catholicism is absolutely correct, but the tune of the mill novus ordo mass just doesn't reflect the splendor or reverence of what is on the page.

[@theticoboy]

H - Seek and you find. You can google Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) groups like Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, Institute of Christ the King, or TLM masses in your dioceses. Or there is also the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) but they are not under the local Bishop. Searching those groups should help you find a parish with a TLM community. Let me know if you need more help. God bless.

[@williamrichmond814]

If I remember, SSPX isn't in communion with the Vatican because of the Écône consecrations (when SSPX founder Marcel Lefebvre consecrated 4 bishops against the orders of Pope John Paul II, and the bishops were automatically excommunicated)

[@theticoboy]

William Richmond - but what happens if a subsequent pope lifts that excommunication?

[@williamrichmond814]

@@theticoboy This might help: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89c%C3%B4ne_consecrations

[@paulbyrne6948]

Perhaps Trads are so angry because they feel abandoned by the hierarchy. The Church on Earth feels like a ship where the Captain, officers and most of the sailors have abandoned ship and the passengers are required to bring the vessel into a safe harbour on theri own. I consider that if significant numbers of bishops spoke out regularly against the craziness in the Church -- Holy Communion for divorced and "remarried", Pachamama, changes to Catechism, re-wording of Our Father, constant berating of traditional Catholicism, scandalous comments attributed in regular interviews with Scalfari, etc. etc. -- Catholics would feel that they had a leadership they could trust and would not feel so abandoned. Those who feel themselves to be under siege and without protection, often develop negative and unpleasant traits.

[@Imfromtheyear3452]

“Trads” = Practicing, devout, standards of holiness and grace, considering one’s eternal soul when thinking about “love” and not enabling and condoning sinfulness in the name of “acceptance” and “tolerance” (remember, Christ instructed us to “Go and sin no more”. So there, now you don’t have to do the video.

[@thecatholicrabbi4170]

I thought he told the adulterers woman that

[@Imfromtheyear3452]

@The Catholic Rabbi I don’t quite understand your comment. Are you implying that unless a sinful habit or lifestyle is adultery, we should continue in that sinful way? In John 8:7, Christ references the sins of ALL the Pharisees present, and so after they leave and He says to the woman, “Go, and now do not choose to sin anymore,” it’s clearly a Gospel lesson for all of us and our variety of sins, not just the one very specific sin of adultery. That happened to be the sin in this story, but it would be odd if Christ was only concerned with that one sin in particular, so I guess I’m saying I don’t follow your logic or understand what your point is.

[@nerdanalog1707]

And what would be your definition of "normal" Catholics, as opposed to "Trads", be? Are Catholics who don't consider themselves "trads" not concerned about enabling and condoning sinfulness?

[@Imfromtheyear3452]

@Nerd Analog I’d argue that would be the wrong question to ask. We shouldn’t be defining Catholics by labels, which was partially the point of my original comment-that Catholics who are devout and practicing are now being labeled as “Trads”. I was only using labels in response to the video’s proclamation of labels. To me, there are just Catholics who are truly living their faith, and then those who are Catholic because they, just for the sake of an example, grew up in a country that is culturally Catholic, or in a family that is generationally Catholic, yet they aren’t really following their faith. This also brings up the point that not being a practitioner of one’s faith can and does bring scandal upon Christ’s bride, the Church. We need to be lights of the Faith-authentic, practicing, devout.

[@nerdanalog1707]

@@Imfromtheyear3452 Thanks for clarifying.

[@justinitsthatguyme010]

Uh oh, Brian. Prepare for the smear tactics against you after this video, if you haven't faced it already. Don't worry we all know you to be a very orthodox and charitable creator. Truth and charity, you never sacrifice either. God bless. I always love you take on subjects.

[@Christofascist_Hup]

This aged like milk

[@ourladyofsorrows60]

Well done and well said. Traditional Catholics need to be careful that they dont follow in the same intolerance they and the Church has faced from modernists. It is hard, but we all need to start with prayer and be extremely humble.

[@mariobaratti2985]

Obedience, humility, charity... unfortunately in my experience I saw many hardened hearts of "rad trads" not accepting these virtues

[@Christofascist_Hup]

Hi! Let’s hang out sometime!

[@Joshharrison224]

I think it’s very cool that you think your anecdotal based position means anything

[@alfredolozano7486]

I've seen this more from my childhood parish. When they began to have a monthly TLM and began including Latin in the Novus Ordo (which Sacrosanctum Concillium, a Vatican II document, calls for) a lot of people got upset and began becoming uncharitable to the music director and those who were attracted by the TLM. It got to the point that our pastor had to address it in the bulletin. Which brings me to the point of obedience. While a lot of Catholics claim to love Vatican II and be obedient to "the spirit of vatican II", they don't actually seem to care about or follow what Vatican II says regarding the liturgy.

[@Blazingwaffles123]

That has not been my experience

[@paulmiller3469]

@@Blazingwaffles123 Well, it's kinda been my experience, but I suppose it is based on personal anecdotes (aka experience), as someone noted above. There does seem to be a separation, contrary to St. Paul's point in 1 Corinthians 1, and it does seem to be caused by a lack of obedience, humility and charity (not all of them, and outside of social media, I would say not even a majority of them - at least not to any degree beyond typical human shortcomings). But I also know the so-called 'trads' didn't invent lack of obedience, humility and charity, and are far from the only ones still struggling with these lacking virtues today.

[@cjones3710]

I love the Traditional Churches. They are the intersection with heaven and this world. Both Masses have value The traditional mass in its extraordinary form needs to expanded. Those who have not been Must experience it before modernists destroy it.

[@nariko47]

Brother Brian, you should narrate stories / audio books. I could hear you talk all day lol God bless 🙏🏼

[@duaneadams5210]

The modern mass and its crap "music" drove me away from the church. I went to the Missouri Synod Lutheran church for a while and was spiritually fed there, but when they decided to be come more "progressive", I felt it was like suffering through the changes of Vatican II all over again and I left. Later, I joined the Traditional Anglican Church. It was some years later that a Lutheran friend asked me why I wasn't Catholic anymore. I had no trouble telling him my feelings about how I felt about our cherished Mass was destroyed by Vatican II. He asked "Why aren't you attending the Traditional Mass that's being offered. I asked "Where"?? He brought me to my first Latin Mass in years and I stayed. It was the modern mass that drove me away and the Traditional Mass that brought me back. I have no reason to ever attend the modern mass that drove me away ever again.

[@debb3428]

I'm going to put this out many times on many posts today. Watch Father Chris Alar's (of the Marion Fathers) lecture series, it's amazing: kzbin.info/door/-z10o42s5ZsZ-RTID7ZOZw. Also, Bishop Barron's "Word on Fire" website has great teachings and resources: www.wordonfire.org/bishop-robert-barron/. And also look at Catholify.com website....it is so incredibly engaging and brings us together.

[@jaymoret7418]

Very well done. The idea that a Rad Trad is anyone who goes to a TLM seems prevalent in NO circles and says a lot to me about pride and rigidity. They would consider the overwhelming majority of Saints extremists, which is pretty embarrassing.

[@sunnyday7843]

It’s closed minded isn’t it - I attended a NO parish where we had a priest who was bringing more reverence back - I was in the choir where we were being taught how to do the traditional sacred music . I was treated with anger in public several times by some older people that preferred the guitar Mass and modern stuff . Oh well- I have a sspx not far from Here And started going there . The sspx people are really peaceful and have been welcoming .

[@jamesmondok8635]

In such a short Video, you did a great job summing all of it up appropriately. I agree with everything you just said!! Thank you and God bless you...Fr. James

[@st.michaelthearchangel7774]

I am a convert from a Godless way of life, and came back into the church in 2012, so the for several years following all I really knew was the Novus Ordo, and even thought the whole "I'm a Traditional Catholic" thing a little odd and ridiculous, but that's ignorance for you. However, a couple years ago my eyes were really opened to the holiness of the Latin Mass, and how beautiful and reverent it really is compared to the Novus Ordo. The Novus Ordo really does pale in comparison. The church really ought to bring back the Traditional Mass as the standard. It really is just so much more glorious than the Novus Ordo on many levels. By the way, what camera and lens do you use? Thank you.

[@debb3428]

'm going to put this out many times on many posts today. Watch Father Chris Alar's (of the Marion Fathers) lecture series, it's amazing: kzbin.info/door/-z10o42s5ZsZ-RTID7ZOZw. Also, Bishop Barron's "Word on Fire" website has great teachings and resources: www.wordonfire.org/bishop-robert-barron/. And also look at Catholify.com website....it is so incredibly engaging and brings us together.

[@windsongshf]

Thank you for the wise words. I remember hearing a prayer when I was recovering from addiction. "God please save me from being angry, how can I be helpful?" Love your channel!

[@nerdanalog1707]

This prayer will come in handy when dealing with difficult customers!

[@burton54ify]

I have a RICA interview next week. Thankyou Brian. You were instrumental.

[@darrelldw713]

I wonder what Archbishop Vigano would have to say about RCIA. I know what I would say, and that is flee from it and embrace traditional pre-Vatican II Catholicism. See my other comments explaining why. Pray the rosary daily and you will be guided into the truth and be able to discern error. Ave Maria!

[@david_porthouse]

At the Our Father, hold your hands together in the usual gesture of praying. Stay like this until the Sign of Peace, and bow to your neighbours, smile and say "Peace be with you" or "Happy Christmas" or "Happy Easter". Then drop your hands. This is an innovative suggestion for the post-Covid era.

[@jencincy1363]

LOVE everything about this videos message!

[@irenafrancis2439]

Seeking knowledge is an indicator of humility.

[@jacksoncastelino04]

Please pray for the restoration of TRADITIONAL Latin mass in Roman rite

[@darrelldw713]

...and all the traditional sacramental rites, traditional doctrine, morals, discipline, and canon law. "Is it Tradition? Ask no more." (St John Chrysostom)

[@darrelldw713]

@@serviam4161 Which disciplines? Those before John XXIII usurped the papal chair and started the break from Catholic tradition, which Paul VI continued exponentially. I've been doing research into the takeover of visible structure of the Catholic Church. The papacy was even taken over in 1958 and the true Church holding to traditional doctrine, Mass, etc. is now a pretty small but growing "remnant." This was all prophesied in the Bible and by numerous saints. This is a pretty good intro to the subject: "Papal Imposters": kzbin.info/www/bejne/aF65op2AjMSfha8 and also kzbin.info/door/mJLcKSyO3CBtxJwddm0Ymg -- This is several long interviews but even the short 3 min. 41 sec. segment there is itself enough to astound anyone, Catholic or not. How many people know, e.g., that Pius XII read the Third Secret of Fatima on May 13, 1957, and then secluded himself for close to two weeks, weeping bitter tears? Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ. (St Athanasius) "Is it tradition? Ask no more." (St John Chrysostom)

[@johnbrehany5966]

So glad you discovered Paul Jernberg's music! He is an amazing composer and a talented music director. Great video by the way. In case you are interested, there is a yearly 3-day pilgrimage that goes on in the USA in New York for the restoration of the Church to a holy and unified body. The pilgrimage just ended this weekend, it's been going on for 25 years. The TLM is said every day throughout the pilgrimage, which ends at the Shrine of the North American Martyrs.

[@siglan6148]

I've never met anyone at Latin Mass who has a Twitter account. Most are deeply devout and stay away from social media. Frankly it feels like the media are creating boogeymen where there are none.

[@debb3428]

'm going to put this out many times on many posts today. Watch Father Chris Alar's (of the Marion Fathers) lecture series, it's amazing: kzbin.info/door/-z10o42s5ZsZ-RTID7ZOZw. Also, Bishop Barron's "Word on Fire" website has great teachings and resources: www.wordonfire.org/bishop-robert-barron/. And also look at Catholify.com website....it is so incredibly engaging and brings us together.

[@vlms5893]

@@debb3428 shut up

[@knightblossom8407]

I'm so glad you're making these videos; thank you so much for your courage in tackling controversial topics and musing upon them with such grace. God bless!!

[@deusvult2302]

Just a quick note!1.) The title of the video is as nauseating as everything Novus Ordu! 2.) Noone *has* to deal with *us* traditional Catholics. 3.) Look around your Novus Ordu temples and then take a look at a beautiful traditional Catholic church, celebrating the Roman Rite, the devil in Rome has perverted. Our churches are FULL whilst yours are empty. Stressing the freemason in Rome to the point, he "thinks" he can forbid this mass. We have had underground churches before and we have them again. We will never give up the ancient rite of TLM!

[@markpugner9716]

You seem very proud for wanting to disregard the Pope's instruction

[@phine999]

I like that you explored how the temptation shifts toward pride (and if I may add, self-righteousness to an extent) and the importance of remaining humble. Because this is something that I think many Catholics, especially devout ones tend to miss. I feel that more Catholics, esp. those who are out there ostracizising fellow Catholics who disagree with their viewpoints (including some church leaders) should watch this video.

[@leshademag]

The pharisees were in the seek of power, yet traditionalist were given a grace to want to perserve the apostolic teachings that keeps the tools to keep us humble. I know that if it wasn't for God guiding me to tradition, I would not have what would disciple my life to save my soul, it is because I know I am a sinner and need tradition to save my soul. It is humility that grows in me for the heart of Christ in the Eucharist. Pharisees say they followed the law, but only did for them to be hirelings in position. I guess we should see which of those are saying they live the faith and yet only say but do not do, for these would be Pharisees for the demand it of others but do not live it. Not one tittle would be left of the law, but it must be done for the salvation of souls not to boost for all traditionalist were given a grace.

[@dianawilde417]

Brilliant summation of events and truth. As usual. Thank you.

[@MrSggurcs]

Trad here, we are not the gossiping women in front of the Church complaining someone didn’t show. We grumpy because things are bad and modernist and our own conservative Catholics attack us instead. Also not for throwing out V2 but something needs to be done.

[@John-iq2zt]

How dare they say we’re quarrelsome and not nice! Not nice??? Are you kidding??? Do they want to get knocked out? On a more serious note...Last time I checked, Trads didn’t care what liberal Catholics thought. By the way, you should wear that Crusader helmet in all your videos.

[@olam.3895]

The hair are so beautiful though.

[@civrn368]

So strong is tradition that later generations will dreaming what they have never seen. G.K. Chesterton

[@luisloya1120]

Thank you brother Brian for defending the faith of old. Vivat Jesus!!!

[@Lisasuhr47]

Thank you for this. My parents, particularly my Mother, is a staunch Latin Mass attendee. My Dad goes with her, but he also enjoys the Regular Mass with myself and my sister's family. I think the Latin/Traditional Mass is very beautiful but I feel rather disconnected because, unlike Mom and Dad, I don't understand most Latin words. I have also participated in the music ministry in my Churches through the years wherever I moved and Mom and Dad's Mass doesn't have music.

[@alhilford2345]

You don't have to understand everything, just follow in a Latin/English Missal and you will soon learn. In many ways it is much simpler than the N.O.

[@AR-ls5iu]

The missals have English on the opposite page.

[@microbroadcast]

Thanks Brian. Great as always, and I really appreciate the written script as well. I find it helps refresh my mind later.

[@springinfialta106]

"Contemporary Catholicism" is like "Contemporary Rock". It is contemptible.

[@hannagonzales7263]

Well said!

[@darrelldw713]

On the other hand, Classical Catholicism is good but Classic Rock is not, i.e. not good for the soul. This is music good for the soul: polyphony, such as Palestrina kzbin.info/www/bejne/eIPJd2qNaaqfbJI

[@springinfialta106]

@@darrelldw713 The degeneracy began with the introduction of instruments. Bach, Beethoven, Brahms might as well have been Beelzebub! /sarc

[@debb3428]

I'm going to put this out many times on many posts today. Watch Father Chris Alar's (of the Marion Fathers) lecture series, it's amazing: kzbin.info/door/-z10o42s5ZsZ-RTID7ZOZw. Also, Bishop Barron's "Word on Fire" website has great teachings and resources: www.wordonfire.org/bishop-robert-barron/. And also look at Catholify.com website....it is so incredibly engaging and brings us together.

[@vlms5893]

@@debb3428 shut up

[@diannediaz5912]

Thank you, Brad for this video. You did touch on several issues that I believe that rmany non traditionalists rejected or struggled to accept about our pro tradition brothers and sisters. Essentially, the major issue was the attitude and apparent self righteousness of those who support the traditionalist approach to Catholicism Brad, as Catholics, we identify ourselves as the Body of Christ. We must act accordingly. I admire the zeal and fervor of our trad. brothers and sister. I do. What must remain as the highest priority is the LOVE for CHRIST and LOVE for EACH OTHER. That's the essence of what it means to Christian. Yet, we all fail to adhere to this when our zeal is transformed into pride, arrogance and a form of spiritual narcissism I am indeed very happy that you have taken the time and made the effort to present your perspective to other Catholic " family members". I sense that it was also an act of humility on your part May you continue to do this in the SPIRIT of Christ's Love. God bless you, always 🌺

[@Ezekiel336-16]

Often when I'm accused of being legalistic the person in question has a problem with my obedience to the commandments out of my love for Jesus as my Savior. In Christ, Andrew

[@kevinwilcox1835]

Going to a Traditional Catholic Church. Love it. Autistism. Don't talk to anyone. Don't touch anyone. Echolalia - how many rosaries do you want. Rules and regulations - suits me. Have a clinical psychologist who's studied the lives of the saints: rules; regulations, can't understand the behaviour of the world and deep focus on one thing (God). No joke.

[@karolinaska6836]

I personally know a family who switched from our N.O. parish to a TLM parish. Super humble couple. After they moved out of state, I went to check out their parish and it was terribly somber depressing and several kinds of icky. I had such high hopes. I haven't given up yet. Going to try another church, though TLM in my area are few and far between.

[@lindamartin6798]

Thank you, @Brian Holdsworth! I hope you're feeling better. Prayers from the smallest province of Canada. God bless!

[@nicksterwixter]

Catholicism means--and has always meant--following the Pope and Cardinals in Rome, the successors to the Apostles. Period. I find this grumbling about "This is all their fault because they made changes to the liturgy" a really silly one. Traditionalists revere the way the Church was in the early 20th Century Church, but they always seem to forget that the Church wasn't ALWAYS like that. The Church AND the liturgy has changed a LOT over its 2000 year history. The essentials always remain, but much of the form and aesthetic surrounding them are products of the time they came out of. Acting like changes coming down from the Pope himself was a borderline attack on the faith of the Catholic people is more of an attack on the sanctity of Catholicism than anything else. When people argue that many dioceses took it upon themselves in the wake of Vatican II to implement changes that were not asked for from Rome, I'm more than sympathetic. But when you act as if the changes of Vatican II themselves were some kind of attack on the Catholic people from their own leaders, then we have a problem.

[@andrewburch3694]

I certainly believe that we owe obedience to Church authorities in liturgical matters, but it is possible to ask whether certain changes in the past 50 years were desirable or not without crossing into impiety (though saying that a change approved by the Pope made the liturgy HERETICAL, INHERENTLY DISPLEASING TO GOD, or something like that is definitely taking it way too far). Such discussions formed a significant part of the process of liturgical reform throughout the 20th century, and they could very well continue to play a part as we deal with current difficulties (so long as they are carried out with due respect for the Church's longstanding traditions as well as the authority of the Supreme Pontiff).

[@nerdanalog1707]

Fully agree.

[@MathieuLLF]

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[@stephenson19861]

Absolutely true; the inspiration for the lithurgical reform was from the first centuries - they did not go forward, but returned backward to earlier times. From that perspective, traditional mass is more modern than the novus ordo. It's often forgotten that liturgy, in it's beggining was celebrated in greek. Only later, in the West, the latin was introduced because it was a language people understood. Or, when Jerome translated Bible into latin, it was met with opposition, but later it became a standard, Vulgata. Or, confession, the way we have it today traces it's history to Irish monks etc. The biggest mistake traditionalists make is that they use the example of abuses to attack the liturgy itself while turning a blind eye that no document, and certainly not a Missal, permets all those things. Yes, there are problems, even grave problems, but they stem not from new liturgy but from lack of discipline or better, lack of means to enforce it, and bad formation in the seminaries. P.s. excuse me for language mistakes, I am not a native english speaker.

[@timsvea5980]

Thanks for this well-balanced view of the contemporary challenge within the Roman Rite concerning the Sacred Liturgy. As St. Augustine once said: In necessary things: Unity. In doubtful things: Liberty. In all things: Charity. In all humility, we might admit that there is enough blame to go around for all followers of Christ when in comes to shortcomings in Christian virtues. The Church is a big place and there is room enough for everyone; that is why we are Catholic meaning "universal." We are not the pre-destined assembly of the saved. Let all who want the traditional Roman Rite have it!

[@redimerfortitudo]

This is funny Brian because a lot of people I’ve heard paint you as a Traditionalist.

[@redimerfortitudo]

Ian You do realize that is a very common fallacy, right? Just because there are two opposing views, doesn’t mean that there is truth and validity in both of them and that the truth is somewhere in the middle. Oftentimes the truth is completely on one side. Other times the truth is far closer to one side than another. People take this approach far too much and all it does it mentally castrate them.

[@redimerfortitudo]

Ian What objective lies would those be? Could it actually be that you believe several objective lies? I see two problems here with what you’ve said. The first is, have you heard of Summorum Pontificum? The 2nd is....and I literally laughed when you linked it....is why in the world are you reading the NYT? That paper stopped reporting truth and being journalism years ago

[@BrianHoldsworth]

@Ian Wait what specific loss are you talking about? I see you pasted a link but it goes to a 404 and you didn't identify what it is that I said that it refutes.

[@redimerfortitudo]

Ian You’re self-righteousness and arrogance...is wow. I would never even dream of telling someone: “You’re obviously not fully Christian yet, but I can try to help”. Do you want me to get on my knees and clean your feet with expensive perfume too?

[@michaelbarry6589]

@Ian Your arrogance shows that you think very highly of yourself. You would do well to check your ego and look people in the eyes, rather than down your nose at them.

[@Insightful_Inquiries]

I would argue that Modernists show more pride amongst their numbers And that “true” traditionalists are less likely to be proud. +---------+---------+ 🌹“Pray the Rosary every day, in order to obtain Peace in the world…...” ~Our Lady’s Words at Fatima May 13th, 1917🌹 -As always, Repent & believe in the Gospel!! God Bless.!! +---------+---------+

[@micahjhoffman8329]

rather be a rad trad. but so true about the pride part, especially me and my area of ppl

[@stefitaliente2146]

Hi Brian, this is a great video and I don’t disagree with it at all. You made some solid points. The only thing I will say is that yes, each generation has always been different than the previous. But, now with technology and fame and money, the more recent generations are far more different and unique than previous ones. So, I do think modernizing the church was necessary. I mean, the family has completely fallen apart in today’s society and parents are the ones who are supposed to teach their kids about appreciating Catholicism and it’s tradition but most parents have failed so the kids are left in that aspect to find the Catholic Church all on their own. I am telling you right now, I would not be a practicing Catholic today if i wasn’t attracted to it by the modern side of Catholicism. In fact, I could say the same about almost all of my Catholic friends. But now that we have grown in maturity with our faith, we have come to appreciate and love the traditional part of Catholicism, too. So, I don’t think it’s bad to use modern tools to attract Catholics to Truth and the a Church. However, just like there is an extreme to traditionalists, there is also an extreme to modernists and that’s what we should avoid and what is dangerous. I think it’s important for all Catholics to fight against the church becoming too progressive that it makes people believe that relativism is good. Anyway, all I’m saying is a little of modernity brings good but too much of it is dangerous

[@order_truth_involvement6135]

Vatican II contradicts Vatican I

[@uchennanwogu2142]

the catholic church is built on a lie

[@mikemcnamara4326]

I pray that the term radtrad ceases to be used. It is derogatory and we, living as Christians, should love each other.

[@Straitsfan]

The traditionalists, or the "traditional" mass is just the mass. The NO is a break with tradition.

[@lesparks126]

Tradition can bind the past church, present church, and future church. It can make it timeless. Ironically, as a Missouri Synod Lutheran, I am a traditionalist from the protestant side. I have attended the Latin mass in Spain, and it was beautiful and full of the presence of Christ.

[@JackHHartnett]

Excellent discourse on accomplished/accredited pride! Amen humility

[@fernandoricaurte9437]

I'm a young millennial who grew up Catholic in the N.O. I have nothing against it, and admire reverent N.O. masses, but I have recently embraced and have been attending the Latin Mass. I don't see myself abandoning it.

[@margyrowland]

We need more “combativeness” in the Catholic Church. The priest that warns us about eternity in Hell, or refuses the Blessed Sacrament for those complicit with abortion, or calls his flock to refuse the lies of socialism, is too rare. Where are the bishops standing up for our right to the Mass and the Blessed Sacrament when government is ruling them as “not essential”? Overall the Church is too nice, cowardly, flabby and shuts down the shepherds who really do obey God. Love from Australia 🇦🇺

[@GuildofGentlemen]

Traditionalism is truly Christianity and it is the future.

[@coldforgedcowboy]

@Brian Holdsworth... While the Latin rite is the largest rite by number of Souls, there are 23 other rites in the Catholic Church who didn't have any significant problems implementing Vatican II. But because the Latin Rite fumbled the ball translating the Trintine Liturgy directly into the vernacular like they were suppose a small but vocal group of American and Canadian Trintine Rite liturgy preferring Catholics think there are significant problems with the documents of Vatican II. Also please don't confuse orthodoxy with Trintine Rite because that doesn't hold for the SSPX or those that reject Vatican II.

[@richardmalcolm1457]

Eastern churches didn't have as much difficulty implementing Vatican II because there was hardly anything for them to implement. Almost everything in the conciliar documents was really directed to the Latin Church. (P.S. It's "Tridentine," not "Trintine" - maybe that was a typo, though.)

[@coldforgedcowboy]

@@richardmalcolm1457 typo

[@richardmalcolm1457]

@David Phillips Yes, the Maronites are the most obvious exception. It's the closest to the Novus Ordo of all of the Eastern Rites as currently practiced. Imagine my surprise when I attended my first Maronite Mass.

[@richardmalcolm1457]

@David Phillips Your points about Paul VI are, I'm afraid, all too valid. It is impossible to avoid the conclusion that this really was his intention, and he saw it through to the end. If Bugnini went beyond Paul VI's brief at points (which he did), the pope only rarely refused his assent. And the truth is, most clergy at the time appreciated this on some level, which is why it became easy - and legitimate - to accept the Pauline missal as the fruit of the Council. The pope wanted it, after all. And the Pope was the man ultimately responsible for implementing the Council.

[@Jayce_Alexander]

There's always a risk that we take the loudest voices to be the most representative. As an Eastern Orthodox Christian, my personal encounters with traditionalist Catholics have always been positive, and very charitable in nature. The same cannot be said for my encounters with a few more "mainline" Catholics - but by the same token, I would not consider these to be representative of less traditionalist Catholics as a group. I love your channel and I love learning more about Catholicism. The fact that people, especially young people like yourself, are so carefully discerning the liturgy fills me with hope, as does the fact that so many young people seem especially wary of liturgical practices that place man at the center of the liturgy instead of our Lord. I recognize the longing for reverence that I see in so many young traditionalist Catholics, and I personally find that the traditional Latin Mass is an extraordinarily beautiful and reverent way of celebrating God's glory. As long as your critique remains charitable and in good faith, and comes from a place of love for Jesus and for our fellow man I believe you're on the right track. God bless all our Catholic brethren.

[@willwalsh3436]

I've attended the traditional Latin Mass on different occasions but I usually attend Sunday Mass at the parish I've attended since childhood. I like the Latin Mass and I have no problem with other Catholics who prefer it. I have a preference for a big tent covering as many sinners as possible though, because it would be easy enough to exclude someone like me if I were judged strictly by the law. I'll take your point that folks concerned with a lack of rigor may be full of zeal for God's law, but that does not mean I agree with them. The Church needs to welcome sinners and sometimes that means being patient about pointing out sins. I'm not in a position to judge whether someone else's faith is genuine or not for the most part though I do have to wonder when it comes to something like abortion. I also agree that most of the traditionalists I've come into contact with are not lacking in charity towards others like some folks who post on the internet who do seem unduly judgmental.

[@enlosluceros7236]

I actually share that view. I wouldn't like to call myself a traditionalist because that means adding a new word and being different from regular catholicism when we are simply regular Catholics. It's the modernists the ones that are attempting to break with the church and not us. In that way I don't criticize the Pope and I don't like to do it because I have the impression that it is exactly what some people expect us to do in order to make us look like heretics. So I just stay calm and relaxed about it and simply promote my faith the way it has always been. If I attend to novus ordo mass which is inevitable because we don't have Latin mass here, I would carry my veil, not to create trouble but to promote the traditions of the church and to evangelize secularized people in a way. It has been working pretty well I must say. At first I felt like I was drawing too much attention and distracting people but surprisingly people would come to greet me and congratulate me for my courage. So I think I'm doing something good. Thanks for the video!

[@cyntogia]

There's a problem with traditional catholics?

[@shannonnezul4903]

Interested to see where he goes... especially since he states all the time the age and validity of the church are what made him join...

[@arsenpixl]

@@shannonnezul4903 I think he will talk about the radicals, in any case, any extreme is wrong. I consider myself tradicional but radicalism its dangerous and it's a way to extremism

[@chroma7247]

Oh yea very prideful and scandalous people.

[@shannonnezul4903]

@@chroma7247 weird that sounds just like the new age bishops.

[@an6893]

Read the description! (Thanks to MZ for pointing this out)

[@BloodTar]

*Pride, Hypocrisy, Intolerance, Combativeness and Bigotry.* This best describes the SSPX and the fact that a good majority of them would truly love to see a return of the Inquisition under a Monarchy, headed by an SSPX Pope, ruling the world. No really. Go talk to one and see if this mindset doesn't eventually start to ooze out of their Traditionalist mouth.

[@Gardenkeeper1000]

Exactly thank you! 👏 👏

[@jgesselberty]

Basically, traditionalists want to worship God. Novus Ordo, liberals, want to be entertained.

[@hesedagape6122]

Basically is a poor way of looking at things. It is basically that was used to kill Christ. C: So are you the Son of God or not? J: I AM. C: Blasphemy!!!! Always listen to nuances

[@rachelpops9239]

Great video Brian! Cant wait to see your next vid about the liturgy 😊

[@marcokite]

when liberal/modernists talk about 'Traditional Catholics' what they actually mean is 'Catholic'

[@juancarrillo2383]

Thank you Brian! I Wanted to post a poem style writing on Ezekiel 18, I wrote in light of what I view as “an epidemic of error” within a multitude of BS media videos badgering the Pope. Food for thought on the opinions of many, an epidemic of division, self proclaiming themselves as traditionalists and conservatives in the Church. I guarantee you, there is neither a Conservative nor a Liberal in Christ: 29But the house of Israel says, “The Lord’s way is not fair!” Is it my way that is not fair, house of Israel? Is it not your ways that are not fair? Ezekiel 18:29 My,my,my oh my, how we feel that my way must be the way. Detest that which comes from the mercy seat because, I have endless sayings from the vast writings. I must now contest even after God himself put His foot down like in Ezekiel. We must all be slow to evolve, living in the rigid age of the word for word, while discounting many struggling sinners because of their pre-judging ways. Did Christ not write upon the ground when he forgave and prevented the stoning? The wind erased the writing, the 10 Commandments are permanent like the Old Testament is, secured in the hearts of the flock, not the brain. Now Adam and Eve can begin to heal. The new age is like the wind. A vast multitude they are and so my own vain search, it’s intensity and it’s rigidity, becomes my self righteous idol. Closing doors to many sinners seeking hope. Who is unfair? The Lord and his Vicar must be? It has got to be, for I have searched to prove it, because, oh my I’m such a traditionalist conservative, a preserver of the past and present, one highly justifying - myself. Oh my my, when the Vicar speaks is it not for Israel or is it? Most certainly for the whole, not my way or the highway. Mangled in minds we are, when triggered by pride and the righteous unfair. Do not spread error by taking us back to the pre-Christ age? Even when the heart of Israel, the new seat of Mose, is speaking and oh how unfair. Trust Christ and His Vicar, who is changing by virtues, not just Chapters upon Chapters weighed in for a, so called, self proclaimed justice. Trust and faith, hmm what is it when it comes from favoritism versus for all of Israel? A definite source not to be trusted for the many facts the vain brain can come up with. This is the idol of pride that can not be ruled, thus art thou a protester. Evil wants to undo God’s plan for humanity. Satan loves your brain. Take the bait, why don’t you but you can not occupy the mercy seat! Repent and trust in the Lord God instead of the functions of the brain, for it is ill equipped to balance with the heart.

[@tfava6492]

I wish I was a radical, just because I'd like to be referred to as rad trad. Plus it rhymes. 👌

[@paulmiller3469]

I wish, I wish, I wish I were a fish. (That rhymes, too.)

[@tfava6492]

@@paulmiller3469 Double thumbs up.

[@olam.3895]

Pray for the apostolic zeal and the Lord shall grant you this grace!

[@sielsounds]

Brian your demeanor and clear explanations are always worth watching. I find that I disagree with you on this point, but you never create defensiveness in me. That's huge! Thank you for these videos. I'm very interested in a video from you on the Charismatic Renewal. God bless your work!

[@civrn368]

To destroy a people you must first sever their roots. Solzhenitsyn

[@david_porthouse]

When you hear "A reading from the Holy Gospel according to ..." make a small Sign of the Cross upon yourself three times, once on the forehead, once on the mouth and once on the breast. I apologise to the many people who will know this already.

[@zita-lein]

No, Brian, sorry. Rad trads didn’t get their reputation from a couple high-profile KZbinrs. The reputation is justly deserved. They are proud, judgmental, rude, clannish, cold, and mean. This is what I have experienced, and I am on their side! So, no. I love the TLM, but the tribe? Not so much. [Edited to fix a typo.]

[@lindacastree694]

Thank you for you measured explanation. I have a daughter who is a Rad Trad and it feels as if she is completely estranging herself from the entire family. It is crushing, but I feel less angry and a bit more understanding after watching your vid.

[@AI-lr9sb]

I love it! “The ‘antagonism’ of the traditionalist should be described as self- defense.” Truth!

[@timothyhatcher8733]

Thank you Brian. Excellent points. If we approach our Faith with humility, no matter where you are in that journey, our path will eventually lead us back home to Christ. God bless!

[@cinderelladevil1687]

I was born after the Vatican Council, but before Benedict was the pope I had attended many Latin Masses. The Church did not ban it after the Council. This rite was looked down on, but not banned as far as I know. The trads I have met are not judgamental, but as you say some of them are more prone to pride.

[@frankpontone2139]

From 1969-1984, NO Latin Mass was licitly available until 1984 with Pope John Paul II's "indult." The Church banned it for 15 years.

[@cinderelladevil1687]

@@frankpontone2139 that is not accurate. Some institutions within the Church had their Masses in latin in that period. I agree that the pre concile liturgy was deemed as backward, or even like a threat. I remember to have looked down on these people as old-fashioned when I discovered that they had been keeping this rite. But to the best of my knowledge they were not banned. Now that I cannot attend the traditional Mass I appreciate the beauty and the meaning of It. And I would like they were available in every parish. They conveyed what was really going on. It was easier to understand the transcendence of the Sacrament.

[@frankpontone2139]

@@cinderelladevil1687 I'm not disagreeing with you but is there a way to provide evidence that the Latin Mass was said from 1969-1984? I'd much appreciate it.

[@cinderelladevil1687]

@@frankpontone2139 it was said in Spain. In Opus Dei.

[@frankpontone2139]

@@cinderelladevil1687 But isn't Opus Dei a Personal Prelature consisting of limited members? Was it ever said in a parish among the laity between 1969 and 1984? Thank you so much for that information.

[@killianmiller6107]

In the wise words of my dad: “I don’t care who started it”

[@Gardenkeeper1000]

With his black belt in his hand… the terror😂😂the good old times

[@queenofhearts7726]

The main thing I’d like to point out is the “clip” shown of the guitar player and bouncy singers.... I have never seen that... ever! I think it misrepresents the vast majority of NO parishes. I grew up with the Latin Mass prior to Vatican II. I was there when the change was made. I learned to play guitar and sang at the Masses, but it was reverent songs, not the bouncy stuff shown in the clip. Don’t get me wrong... I love the Latin Mass, but there is no cause to say that either makes a person a more dedicated Catholic or that either of them is a better way to worship our Lord. We need to stop criticizing either those who prefer the Latin or those who prefer the “new Mass” as we called it back then. Yes, there are things about the NO that I believe have caused a more lax attitude for many Catholics, but the attitude of some “Rad” Trads has driven many away who would like a more traditional Mass... just like Protestant attitudes kept me and others from ever considering Protestantism. So, please, for the love of our Lord, everyone needs to stop classifying each other as “Trads” or “modernists”! We are all Catholic! God bless!

[@IdraSucks1]

Preach!

[@aileenbordelon7884]

Same, I’ve attended mostly reverent NO Masses. I have gone to some that weren’t very reverent but the majority I’ve went to were.

[@queenofhearts7726]

Tony in Tasmania I agree. The TLM is not available everywhere, which is sad as it is a beautiful Mass. I do miss it, but am very thankful that we can even go to Mass and receive the Eucharist! Many in the US are still restricted. If you’ve not seen one, check one out on KZbin. I have a little booklet that has Latin on one page and English on the other. This way, you can still understand the prayers and follow without too much trouble. We also do some prayers in Latin... usually during Advent and Lent, so we get some. We pray in Latin at Adoration, but again, the prayers are shown side by side. God bless! My brother lives in Australia

[@professorcomics2736]

On an intriguing journey of learning about "Traditional Catholicism." I shall refrain from judgement until I am more informed about the subject.

[@JM-qs8up]

The title makes me think, “oh no! What embarrassing/uncharitable thing has my family done this time?” 😬🤪🤣

[@nicolelowe3619]

Tuesday, May 10, 1904, Our Lady described to Marie-Julie Jahenny - the New Clergy and their liturgy: “They will not stop on this hateful and sacrilegious road. They will go further tocompromise all at once, and in one blow, the Holy Church, the Clergy, and the Faithof my children. Catholics opened their hearts to Prophecy, that is how and why they chose to become Traditional. The church will endure till the end. Pray the Rosary Daily♥️ btw Brian love your videos

[@darrelldw713]

I'm pretty sure that "one blow" refers to the invalid election of John XXIII two days after Cardinal Siri was elected and there was the never explained 5 minutes of white smoke coming from the Sistine Chapel chimney.

[@tMatt5M]

Lololol this video comes have we have a long back and forth exchange on twitter yesterday. Please don't defend Jews blaspheming our Lord again. It's a really bad look, even if you do get a ton of Internet praise.

[@loganm.2529]

I agree a bit. There's only one way to attain eternal life, according to both scripture and tradition (to the best of my knowledge), and that is through Jesus Christ, through the Father, the Son, and The Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost). Doesn't matter what you are, even if you're a jew, you will still be judged for not being faithful to Christ.

[@windsongshf]

It's interesting observing how anti-Semitism is baked into the Catholic religion. This is one reason I shy away from joining an organized religion. Too much viciousness.

[@tMatt5M]

@@windsongshf i did not say anything anti Semitic.

[@loganm.2529]

@@windsongshf How is saying that Jews who do not believe in Christ will not be welcomed into Christ's Kingdom anti-Semitic? It doesn't matter if you're a Jew or Gentile, if you don't believe upon the name of Jesus Christ, you will not inherit the kingdom and you will not be made part of the Covenant God made with mankind through Christ. But, in Christ Jesus, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, only Christians, according to Saint Paul.

[@tMatt5M]

@@ajboggs1522 Please don't accuse of anti-semitism as well. This is calumny, an objective sin. You don't know my heart and I did not say anything anti-Semitic. Peace be with you, brother.

[@christusvincit6696]

The first TLM Catholics I encountered were very rude. One guy turned red face when I commented on the use of Latin in the modern day. This kept me away from looking into the TLM for years. And once I did discover the TLM it is course beautiful. But the attendees are stand offish and not welcoming. But that can be said of any Catholic Church. Catholics are not great at being welcoming. You have to be assertive and get involved to build community. But TLM attendees...if you are reading this. Try to be nicer to new faces. That way we can grow the TLM movement. 😉Thanks! And thanks Brian. Great video. As always!!

[@ragejinraver]

I go to the traditional Latin Mass but that's one they I could say about protestants they are very welcoming

[@frankpontone2139]

@@ragejinraver Yes. Traditional Catholics are cliquish and stand-offish. They're not welcoming because they feel they are in Church to worship God, not to have a social meeting. That's why the traditional priests don't stand in the back of the Church after Mass to shake hands.