DEAN GUITARS Comes Crashing Down! Fallout From GIBSON LAWSUIT Is Here

As a result of the recently resolved Gibson Guitars / Dean Guitars lawsuit, the presiding judge has order Dean to stop producing V and Z models, along with several others. These are some of their most popular and longest running guitar models. Is this the beginning of the end for Dean? We also follow-up on the Evan Rubinson / CEO situation.
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Rubric: -5 points for Danzig references. -5 points for not reading the description. -5 points for not watching far enough into the video to answer your own question. -5 points for misquoting me in your comment. 20 points possible. Everyone starts with an A!

[@FultonStreetBeats]

Gotta love how Gibson had no problem making STRAT style guitars. Hypocrites.

[@sgt.grinch3299]

There is no trademark on strat style bodies.

[@FultonStreetBeats]

@@sgt.grinch3299 I think your missing the point.

[@DJBuglip]

How about that new "Thedore"? Its a Teisco Tulip.

[@drumsandstuff7987]

Just matter of time before Gibson completely fades out of the picture. Young players simply don't give a shit about the Gibson name. When the old-timers are gone and not sucking Gibson's ass anymore, not even Slash can pull them out of the gutter. And btw. Kids don't like expensive flawed beat up guitars Gibson call relic's. They like shiny and new and fast playing. Sorry just the Elephant in the room.

[@FultonStreetBeats]

💯. Not even Slash again. 😂

[@stephenskiles7782]

I for one would never mistake a Dean for a Gibson. Never.

[@christoguichard4311]

Yeh...the Dean is well-made.

[@thegamersgalaxy2855]

😂

[@thisguy2973]

It’s the body that affects the lawsuit. Even if you don’t mistake that, the law now says officially, it’s an infringement.

[@stephenskiles7782]

@@thisguy2973 This is ridiculous the body headstock it's different enough. Quite a few are out there using the same headstock or very similar to Gibson. Seems like they want to make them suffer. They should put this energy towards innovation and quality controle. I. Wouldn't have ever picked a Dean over Gibson for the simple fact that the headstock makes the guitar ugly. However a Gibson only gives you so many options and resale is stupid prices. New is stupid prices and if you want one you got to wait a year for Gibson to get off their ass and make something other than an overpriced Slash or Adam Jones les Paul's. They need to come up with some explorer and v shapes that aren't overpriced show pieces.

[@thisguy2973]

@@stephenskiles7782 and they stick to tradition because tradition sells

[@nobodyimportant76467]

Gibson should focus on making guitars that people want to buy instead of suing companies just because they make a better product

[@40fit38]

☝️YES!!! Thank you!!! Gibson should look at QC of theirs first and foremost!

[@jimherleva4541]

Subjective. Any Dean I’ve ever used has been poor or average, a “good for the price” instrument.

[@nobodyimportant76467]

@@jimherleva4541 My point is more around if Gibson made a guitar that was superior to anything else in its price range people would buy it and Gibson wouldn’t have to sue their competitors to increase market share

[@jimherleva4541]

@ Paul Adams Would you be happy if someone took your intellectual property and then copied and marketed it? I’m betting not - same with anyone with an ounce of business sense. Gibson and Dean are companies that are designed to make money, why should Dean make money off of Gibsons work?

[@nobodyimportant76467]

@@jimherleva4541 The models that Dean is accused of copying have been in production for decades. How interesting that they wait until now to do something about it. Thanks for the condescending reply, though. It says far more about you than anyone else

[@ScreaminT81]

You know if Gibson actually looked after their business correctly, they wouldn’t have to sue other brands

[@jimherleva4541]

Don’t copy designs, don’t get sued. Simple when you think about it.

[@michellebrown7714]

@@jimherleva4541 then Gibson should have protected their shit 60 years ago, simple when you think about it.

[@danieljones8706]

I blame both. Gibson had the copyright and sat around letting Dean and others make knock-offs. But at the same time, Dean built its whole business on making some Gibson knock-offs knowing that they didn't have the copyright. And they didn't bother to push their unique models enough. I'm really hoping that they stop milking Gibson copies and Dimebag products, and focus on some new designs.

[@ScreaminT81]

@@danieljones8706 knockoffs? The way Gibson does their QC and charges more than most mortgage payments a month, I think I would go for a Dean. I will say you are right both messed up

[@jimherleva4541]

@ Michelle Brown intellectual property is funny like that - it doesn’t have to be dealt with right away, just within the timeframe of legal use and protection. Instead of asking why Gibson waited “60 years ago”, ask why Dean couldn’t come up with their own designs in six decades.

[@rickplester9727]

It breaks my heart to see all the work Elliott did over the decades go down like this. As a Dean artist since 2006 I can tell you Elliot and Josh (a/r) were the best and why so many other artist we so loyal to the company. After Elliot passed away the relationship with Dean dwindled into the abyss. I hope Pam can turn the company around because Dean once was the best guitar company to be with.

[@bpreece1]

Agree Elliott was once the largest Seller in the South East US for Gibson when he had Thoroughbred Music. He resurrected Dean and his employees were well treated. I know a few of the Thoroughbred Employees are at Dean. All this turmoil is heart breaking and agree hope Pam does get it turned around.

[@J.C...]

That would've been awesome to see all the Dimebag stuff they had. Dime loved Dean Guitars and seemed to have a huge part in their not folding completely. I mean, the thing I saw said they went from selling a couple hundred thousand $ in sales for the entire company to making over $6 million the next year on Dime Signature guitars alone, which was Dime's first year at Dean. I hate that Rita and Dean had to part ways but it's in the best interest of Dime's estate and legacy.

[@samright4661]

It broke my heart that Dean Stole Gibson design for years

[@caiusmadison2996]

Just tell em wait about 5 years, Gibson is gone guaranteed by then.

[@Divedown_25]

But again, he copied the guitar layout from Gibson. Is that really worth celebrating, it’s pure China style

[@Nyogtha]

This is a shame. They are a local employer here in Tampa. Their V and Z have looked better than 99% of Gibson’s production models of the same shapes for the past two decades.

[@Hue_Nery]

Look and play better.

[@alanmiller2250]

They have a Floyd whammy bar, which is the next vision of a V or Z guitar. They have to be allowed because they advanced it. You ever see how good they look? I know i want one.

[@lathrin]

@@alanmiller2250 yeah the ones with Floyd systems were sick. It's a shame that Gibson is coping

[@chrisw5742]

I remember when they first came out. They were JUNK....

[@markcampbell7554]

At this point in time it seems absurd that Dean would be getting sued at all. Dean Zelinsky was selling these model's almost 5 decade's ago. Yes, they all seemed to be copied from Gibson. In the present, there are probably a thousand companies copying Gibson and Fender design's and maybe six companies that actually have their own unique body design's. So, why go after Dean guitar's? There really are very few unique body design's and this all seems like a waste of time.

[@russellward4624]

Because Dean makes money and the others don't. I'm surprised that since Gibson hasn't protected its trademark for all these years they had much of a leg to stand on. But maybe that's the jury not understanding a complex case the same way the don't understand the copyright of songs. Giving rulings for having a descending scale.

[@CatsInHats-S.CrouchingTiger]

@@russellward4624 maybe Gibson’s aren’t popular because the sound isn’t what musicians are looking for. Gibson’s are kinda classical which is why Dean has been successful because it’s attracting a market of musicians that prefer the Dean sound. Gibson should look into adding musicians to their roster or sponsoring them in order to keep a stronger position in the market. Is it really the same guitar if the pickups are different?

[@miyamiyasvideovault5838]

Because unlike those other companies, Dean threatens legal action against THEIR competitors too, for shapes they took from Gibson, almost 1-1 without changing a thing outside of the headstock. They went after Ibanez a few decades back too, Imagine if ESP started suing people who made snapper clones. I don't think Fender/Charvel would take well to that either.

[@russellward4624]

@@CatsInHats-S.CrouchingTiger I've always thought Gibsons suck but I'm not sure what this has to do with my comment that Gibson went after Dean because they're a successful company and they don't go after the companies that aren't successful.

[@user-do2ev2hr7h]

I'm no expert, but I have to assume there's some particular(s) of Dean's design and/or marketing that gave Gibson a successful opening for making a case on some technical point(s) of law.

[@southeastarmory3079]

Gibson should learn that by preventing other companies from making great, reasonably priced guitars, it didn’t make your own over priced, sub par guitars better.

[@adventuresofmooseandthidwi3166]

Gibson should be ashamed of themselves. Regardlless of all this courtroom BS, I am still a Dean fan. As long as they make great guitars, I'll keep buying them. Hey Dean! Keep on keep'n on.

[@lostreb]

Since Gibson lost the suit in the EU, and it's still legal for Dean to sell these same guitars in the EU, does that mean this cease production order pertains only to production for sales in the United States? I mean how can a US Court order cease production of products that are "for export only" and "not" manufactured for sale in the USA? I'm not sure how contradictory verdicts on different continents works. It totally infuriates me if this means guitars already produced and ready to go out the door have to be destroyed. (Turn the environmentalists and particularly the save the trees factions loose on that judge if that's the case.) Additionally, I agree with a previous commenter about slightly changing the dimensions, slightly modifying the look, and renaming with entirely different naming conventions and just keep making and selling. Gibson has successfully totally alienated me from ever purchasing any product marketed by them the rest of my life (recognizing the fact I'm over 3/4 of a century old, that is not going to be all that much longer).

[@tallthinkev]

Not just the EU. There are 27 different countries in the EU, some much poorer than others. Move production to, lets say, Romania, Dean can still make, cheaper than the US, and sell to the rest of the world. The US is only 4% of the worlds population.

[@user-do2ev2hr7h]

I'm no expert, but I think if production is somewhere where the court ruling applies, they can't produce the guitars, regardless of where they do and do not sell them. Their entire supply/production chain would have to be outside US jurisdiction.

[@tallthinkev]

@@user-do2ev2hr7h Yep, the rest of the world is outside US jurisdiction. Otherwise US cops would be nicking everyone driving on the correct side of the road! Gibson would have to bring a case in that country. As Gibson lost in the European Court, they will have to bring 46 different cases, to 46 countries, with 46 different sets of law. When Gibson loses Dean could still sell their guitars to 195 other countries. 90% sure I am right on this point. Still there is a one in ten chance I well could be wrong.

[@user-do2ev2hr7h]

@@tallthinkev Yeah, but my point was that I don't think they can get away with "for export only" if they're still producing the offending guitar models in the US.

[@lostreb]

@@user-do2ev2hr7h Thank you for your observation. I was asking the question because I wanted someone that knows more about all this than I do to give opinions. Thank you for the comment.

[@zackyallen2713]

After all this, as an artist who loves a specific brand (Jackson is my favorite btw) i don't think i could sit with that brand if they are destroying other brands because of shapes. i would not want to be with gibson even if its the last thing in the world. Shame on gibson for being as selfish as they are and not understanding there are other brands that people want to use.

[@jimherleva4541]

Shame on Gibson for protecting their intellectual property. I’m sure you’d be happy for somebody to steal you’re ideas - you know, for the benefit of other people.

[@zackyallen2713]

@@jimherleva4541 I get where you come from. And it’s valid point. Yes I get the part of protecting their ideas but it the same time this wasn’t a company that’s been doing this for little amounts of time. We are talking decades here. Dean is iconic as Gibson in some cases. All I’m getting at is why didn’t they do it sooner? Like in the 80’s? Then it would have made sense. Gibson is a true innovator. To be fair I’m just tired of Gibson being the way they are and jus not doing as good as they were even 5 years ago with having a variety with epiphone and all that. If they at least did that I’d be fine.

[@willbarnz6960]

Pray Fender doesn't do to Jackson (or Charvel) what they did with SWR... Drive it into the ground.

[@zackyallen2713]

@@willbarnz6960 fender owns Jackson and charvel. I don’t see them going anywhere

[@willbarnz6960]

@@zackyallen2713 I know Fender owns both of them. Fender bought SWR a while back too... then they ran it into the ground.

[@benben-sl7hi]

I have a couple of Dean Vs and I love them! I have also had a Gibson V and I just wasn't happy with the sound as well as the the quality and playability compared to Dean. It's a shame because if Gibson owns the shape of the traditional V and Dean can no longer produce it Gibson needs to step it up and make their guitars a hell of a lot better. Especially for what they are charging!!🤬

[@triax7006]

The real story of why Gibson won the lawsuit is that one Dean guitar was found to have numerous issues including a snapped headstock. Now it may have been due to a drunken fight on stage, but Gibson saw that as an infringement on their quality control & quite rightly sued for that one Dean guitar trying to emulate Gibson's tradition.

[@mattdad8429]

They definitely have cornered the market on headstock-explosions per capita.

[@damonwolf793]

Another prime reason why I love Ibanez. They don't have any of this crap going on..

[@scourge34]

Anymore.. They had their lawsuit era also.

[@Preussenpenner]

Gibson sued them so hard back in the day that ibanez will never ever make another V.

[@ScrewballMcAdams]

Dean should run a design contest looking for unique guitar designs. They'll be able to pick and choose among perhaps hundreds or even thousands of entries at virtually no cost other marketing the contest, the legal costs of covering their ass, and the contest winners' awards. This is a great way to include Dean devotees in their design process, and contest winners might receive a free prototype or serial #1 of each winning design and a certification letter to be used as the guitar's provenance.

[@davidshort8226]

I literally belly laughed when you busted out the flask haha! Great stuff!

[@acousticadventure1]

Ya gotta flask

[@TetrarchJefffreak69]

This is beyond horrible I love Dean guitars I hope they can recover from this

[@troyevitt2437]

Screw 'em...backdate the serial numbers to pre-injunction numbers you can pass off as "preexisting".

[@ws8080]

The ultimate irony is that Gibson's own subsidiary brands turn out better quality for the $. BUT as you point out, if Dean gets their act together they could emerge better off - come out with new products that continue to beat Gibson on quality/price, and use this media attention as free advertising - like "Gibson was so afraid of us they sued us... now try our new products that will leapfrog them". Hope they do it. Dean itself has long running name recognition that is a worthy legacy themselves.

[@beefnacos6258]

Dean usually makes Chinese junk though for the most part. I understand what you are saying though.

[@frankking439]

@@beefnacos6258 Their select series is outstanding.

[@neil2706]

@@beefnacos6258 usa everything

[@shinyoneincarnate5565]

Founded in 1976 Dean Zelinsky cultivated artist endorsements, until 1997 when he sold the company to Elliott Rubinson owner of Armadillo Enterprises, Inc. Elliott kept the endorsements coming until his son Evan took over December 2016. Even had the endorsements going. Elliott was the touring bass player for Michael Schenker Group, Uli John Roth, & Michael Angelo Batio.

[@rodrossi9749]

Zelinsky did not sell Dean to Rubinson. it was purchased from Oscar Medeiros of Tropical Music.

[@sgt.grinch3299]

Interesting tale. Sounds like a new beginning and restructuring for Dean. I wish them well.

[@KaddysJamKave]

I can't see Dean being significant after all these blows... They were only still relevant NOT due to new innovations... But on their Dime guitars and classics which they can't make any of them anymore. But you've got a good point... If they can capitalise on the vendetta and Zero models and give more variations and modern finishes along with a slew of other modern guitars... They have a chance at being somewhat relevant. This may significantly UP the used market prices on Dean lawsuit guitars and create nostalgia for many guitarists wanting to play the "forbidden" classic models haha.

[@Stefan-]

They can still make the ML though since its their own design. Its of course a big loss with the V and Z, i love my classic shaped Dean V´s.

[@KaddysJamKave]

@@Stefan- True... Just not the dimebag finishes and variations of the ML. They better up their game with their MLS too... What they have now isn't impressive.

[@Stefan-]

@@KaddysJamKave Yes of course, i wonder how the future of Dimebag guitars will look since the ML design is a Dean design, will it be possible to produce the Dimebag ML´s in the future without Dean making them. Washburn did produce Dimebag ML type guitars in the past when Dean was in a bad state and Dime had left them of course but who knows how it will play out today. The Dimebag estate (or what you call it) should probably be able to produce the Razorbacks though.

[@KaddysJamKave]

@@Stefan- the dimebag estate has legal authority / patents for all the ML dimebag designs such as the Dean from hell and dime slime and ALL razorback and stealth models. Dean can NOT make them anymore and it's very likely that Rita will sign on to DIME guitar models being produced in future instead of "Dean" which makes absolute sense. Which guitar company will produce it? I'd say Wylde audio / schecter but we will see...

[@Stefan-]

@@KaddysJamKave They may ceratainly have the rights to the graphical designs and such but do they really have the rights to produce ML´s which is a Dean design, i highly doubt it.

[@WalkenDead]

Everyone knew what the V and Z were. The true Legacy of Dean is the ML, Everyone links that to Dime, but it was around long before he made it famous. As things stand now that would be the guitar I would focus on. The Stealth and Razorback are gone, or soon will be. You have Kerry King and Doyle's stuff but that is a very small clique of players. The ML can still appeal to allot of people even without the DIme label on it, just because of his connection to it

[@mc12358]

My cousin had the blue lightning ML some 25 years ago. I recently picked up an import model Razorback w/FR Special (I think it's Bumblebee Slime or something but it would have excellent look on stage if I ever learn to play it 😀) so I'm kind of glad I have that guitar now. Too much litigation and not enough creation these days.

[@johnhamner1]

Max, thanks again for the update on the Dean Saga. As for Gibson, they are POS company who sells an inferior product period. Their QC/QA is abysmal at the very least. I recently got rid of my one and only Gibson guitar that I owned and have no regrets. As far as Deans, I own 3 ML’s and find them way better than any Gibson crap. ESP better be keeping a eye out for lawsuit coming for their guitars. They make a superior guitar compared to Gibson. Only Gibson product I might consider in the future is an Epiphone product before a USA Gibson

[@willbarnz6960]

Only bad thing there is, buying new, you're still feeding Gibson $$$... (Same if you buy their cheap Maestro brand... Are they still making these cheapos?)

[@watcherzero000]

The new Gibson owners(KKR) do not give a shit what people think they are going to do anything to protect a brand they own. When shit is not working no more and KKR starts losing money they will either gut that company and hire new people that can do the work the way it should be done or they will tank the company like they have done so many other companies they have owned. KKR is huge international investment firm and they have lawyers all over the world and they have a lot power in the US Legal system there will be more lawsuits in the near future you can count on it. We will just have to wait and see what KKR does.

[@spookybaba]

What I'd like to know is why did it take so long for Gibson to react to what was a clear design copy.

[@Madchris8828]

Pretty sure a lawsuit from years ago by fender showed that bodyshapes can't be explicitly copyrighted?

[@JorgeCastillo-yd5jx]

Because of the unspoken and unofficial rules of the guitar industry, they are all business partners believe it or not, they even share supplies depending on their needs. The issue here is that when the son took over Dean he came in acting like he didn’t need any of those relationships and wasn’t a pleasant person to collaborate with, so all the companies associated in a way with Dean went on and started lawsuits because they didn’t see any positive outcome from Dean anymore. That’s also the reason why all the Dean artists left, because no one could stand the new owner’s attitude. it’s sad to know

[@thisguy2973]

New CEO

[@JLeppert]

Whilst all the other responses are correct, I would also add that Dean has been making crap instruments for about 20 years now, and since nobody's buying them they need to get money somewhere.

[@Divedown_25]

Being fired from the CEO and President job by your mom and then also get sued by your mom. That’s like La Chancla 2.0

[@MountainViewStudio]

I have met Elliott Rubinson (ex CEO) back in M.I days when he came with Michael Angelo Batio for a clinic at the school. Super cool dude and bass player. Hey brother thx for the vid, cheers

[@GuitarMAXMusic]

Hey man! Nice to see you on here. Thanks!

[@ws8080]

If the material damages was determined to be such little in terms of $ in the ruling you reported before, then how can they possibly order them to stop production? Not to mention that when something becomes an "industry standard" like the Strat, the LP, and the SG styles, then everyone can technically copy the general shape and feature without impact - and at this point some of these products like the V are more associated with Dean than Gibson? Just like a windows-style computer interface using a mouse and menus is an industry standard and can be used in all operating systems. BUT I would say when a company starts pursuing frivolous lawsuits like this, it signifies problems to come. When you are more focused on the past than the future, nothing good comes of it, and plenty of companies have started down this road and ended up bankrupt (only the lawyers profit in the end). Smarter for Gibson to get their trivial damage $ and just offer up a cheap licensing arrangement to other companies than shutting them down. It's been too many years of copying by many to stop it now.

[@growingup4487]

Gibson is just trying to stomp competition if the V and explorer became an industry standard than other manufacturers could make a product better and cheaper than gibsons overpriced guitars. it's all about money.

[@davidtomkins4242]

The factthat something is “industry standard” has no bearing on whether it can be copied. It’s about whether there is protection on said features - either patent, intellectual property or trademark. The issue with fender/gibson is that in order to have a reasonable infringement case, you need to show that you have attempted to protect those patents. Fende4/gibson have not done so in 60 years so basically the judge has said “yes, we will uphold your patent/trademark, but don’t come crying to us because of lost sales because you didn’t seem bothered about it previously”. Hence the $4000.

[@michellebrown7714]

@@davidtomkins4242 the only thing Fender cares about is the headstock, which is the right way to handle it, and since no one has copied their headstock, Fender hasnt felt the need to protect anything, which again makes sense.

[@davidtomkins4242]

@@michellebrown7714 fender wanted to protect the whole design but they were too slow or didn't bother for too long. The judges only allowed them to tradermark the headstock.

[@michellebrown7714]

@@davidtomkins4242 which is the exact same situation that happened here with gibson is my point.

[@zukiryder05]

I'd like to see that judge's bank account.... I'm guessing there was a recent, large deposit.... Nothing to see here..... I'd prefer Dean move to their new V and Z designs anyway. They should push the Cadillac series as those are highly unique to Dean. Also the MD24 as well as the MDX are both awesome playing machines...

[@OfficialKevinFox]

Is The Cadillac model really that original though? It’s the Les Paul shape but with the cutaway of an Explorer. So idk 🤔

[@vladimirpoutine7522]

Theyre fantastic guitars... but far from original. They copied pretty much everything.

[@vladimirpoutine7522]

@@OfficialKevinFox the Soltero is Deans LP I believe.

[@Stefan-]

@@vladimirpoutine7522 I dont think they make that anymore, it seems the current LP style guitar is the thoroughbred.

[@vladimirpoutine7522]

@@Stefan- interesting. I have one of the older American models and I'm not sure if it's even called a Soltero or not. Pretty cool guitar though. Played a Korean one and it stacked up.

[@buck7477]

The shame of it is that Dean makes great guitars! I got an ML that’s just amazing one of the only guitars I’ve ever bought that I didn’t have to mess with! It came perfect brand new no issues! Dean makes great Guitars!!!!

[@robertobaggio8260]

Gibson should concentrate on their own guitars and not Bully other companys, you yourself are a big fan of the Firefly Flying V and the Explorer type guitars, so the big question is will they go after other guitar firms/manufacturers that produce similar models to Gibsons, firms like Firefly, Harley Benton, Sire and others will they be getting letters in the post. Still keep up the good work!! Please reviev a Dean model the MD24, or the thinner Z and X?

[@gl3605]

They are concentrating on THEIR own guitars. All of these companies have stolen their product(s) designs and made millions $$$ from doing so. Millions$ that Gibson didn't get. This should have been stopped decades ago. Also Chibsons should never be allowed into this country..ever. Think of it this way...What if Ford designed a car that was 99% the exact same as a Corvette. That would be total bullshit right? That would be no different than what Dean has done to Gibson. Wrong is wrong. Standing up for what you created in not "bullying". People are buying these Deans and ALL of these copies because of the designs. The V, Explorer, LP and SG are the best shapes..as well as the Strat. These knockoff companies as well as Dean would be worth nothing today if it wasn't for stealing other peoples ideas. No different than what China does every single day to nearly all American products.

[@Earthshaker1965]

Bonus points for the mystery substance in the flask!!!👍😎 Dean needs to get off it's laurels and get busy. They need to come up with some fresh designs and make cool/affordable guitars again.

[@RokDAWG1]

This could force Dean to create a new model or three that will push them ahead of the pack. This could easily backfire on Gibson.

[@Geetarman69420]

Ugh I hope so. Gibson’s brand is shooting itself in the face in my eyes. Ever since I was young all I have wanted was a Gibson, but with the unjustifiable price and brand controversies I cannot seem to want one anymore. I can get a custom shop les Paul from another company for 3000 dollars less with the same specs. It’s similar to the b.c. Rich situation. They are just so out of touch

[@ChrisM541]

Difficult to compete with those two 'classic' shapes. Gibson and Fender are so iconic, and rightly so - their products were/are used for the vast majority of popular music for so many decades. All those iconic guitarists chose them for a reason. Of course, their amps had a bit of an influence here too.

[@neil2706]

Gibson should focus on proving that their les paul is the best les paul like fender does with the strat not go after smaller companies I know fender don't have the trademark for their shape but they got over that really quickly and most people thinking of a strat shape body is gonna think fender not anyone else

[@luketaylormusic2807]

Hi Max! Thank you for your honest and optimistic video. I am the proud owner of a Dean USA Custom Shop Gran Sport. It's 1/1 in the whole world and I ordered it when the lawsuit was already underway. During the course of the building, I got to know some of the guys in the shop, and they're awesome people who take great pride in their work. I'm not sure, but it could be the very last custom shop Gran Sport ever built. I absolutely love it. I want to give a shout out to those shop guys...no matter what happened in the courtroom or the boardroom, they never stopped their passionate and dedicated work. #deanforlife #getyourwings #usa

[@guitarfreakchadwick25]

I understand a few guitarists left Dean but the fact that they continue to sign amazing musicians never gets said..... just the bad.... they just signed Greg Tribbet of Mudvayne.... Jon Donais of Anthrax... Doyle of Misfits.... Mike Deleon of Phil Anselmo And The Illegals... Matt Brunson of Crowbar ..... just in the last year.....come on people.... give credit where it's due.

[@jordanjones2049]

Not mention Kerry Fucking King!!!

[@Solelova67]

I’m a bass player but still think their Cadillac guitar is very cool especially their expensive USA custom shop versions. Dean deserves to be saved for Nostalgia reasons just like Gibson basically has. People still complain about Gibsons Quality control though not as bad as they used to, there’s still complaints.

[@diabeticmonkey]

It’s been said hundreds of thousands of times, but the optics of the suit after such a long amount of time make Gibson look pathetic and desperate. They can sue whoever they want, but unless they change their game when it comes to quality and pricing, people will still stay away from their instruments. I think I’m gonna look into a Burny, Tokai, or Greco Les Paul at some point. Hell, Edwards makes excellent instruments, too.

[@codacreator6162]

Chibson.

[@SixString_J5]

If you were going to pay for an actual gibson, give Kiesel's single cuts a look. They absolutely smash gibson in a direct comparison, they are made in USA, and you get to pick the specs. You can actually find quite good deals on them used as well.

[@samright4661]

Cry more nobody cares what you think

[@watcherzero000]

The new owners of Gibson do not give a shit what the public thinks they are banking on keeping their rich fan boys and squashing the competition in court. Gibson's new owners KKR are a huge international investment firm with lawyers all over the world. We will be seeing more lawsuits from Gibson/KKR in America and abroad you can count on it.

[@AkeTheSnaker]

Check out Maybach Lester if you want a fat vintage neck.

[@spacemedic545]

I played a Dean for years. Great Bass Guitar! I played with Blackland, we were Dean artist at one time.

[@matthewearl9824]

I like this news format you have. I get excited when I see new news come up from you because it is in things I am interested in like music, guitars and all other related topics. Keep it up.

[@GuitarMAXMusic]

Awesome, thank you!

[@robertturner1550]

Why didn't Gibson sue the original Dean back in the 70s?

[@jimherleva4541]

Maybe because they had a working relationship? Maybe something changed regarding litigation in those 40years? The guitar industry is bigger than it was in the 70s, business has become bigger and more litigious as there is now more to lose if you don’t protect yourself. That’s all Gibson did. Instead ask yourself; why couldn’t Dean come up with their own designs in those 40years?

[@thisguy2973]

Different CEO. Some are better at tracking threats to IP, and Gibson’s new CEO gets it.

[@marvintimke3978]

They didn't hold the copyright for the Flying V and Explorer in the 70s. They only got the trademark on the Flying V and Explorer in the late 90s. But i think in the 70s they did send Ibanez a letter and asked them to stop making copies of their guitars. But didn't sued them, for obvious reasons.

[@robertturner1550]

@@marvintimke3978 I owned both the V and Explorer Ibanez guitars. They were both fantastic super well made.

[@marvintimke3978]

@@robertturner1550 Yeah, that's what i hear in general about those 70s Ibanez guitars. I heard people say, they were better than Gibson at the time

[@acousticadventure1]

I think I see a Boston album behind you. Third Stage? Nice, Brad Delp was one of the greatest.

[@kodyschmidt3306]

I'd really like to see Dean turn around. It seems like Rubenson was where everything went wrong, so hopefully giving him the boot will help. Maybe enough to bring back some of the artists. Maybe even the Dimebag stuff

[@Malum09]

I guess we are going to see some modifications to these shapes just as it happened with ESP

[@friedrudibega6384]

If they can even keep going. Half a million missing. Sheesh!

[@Malum09]

@@friedrudibega6384 if they enter bankruptcy, do you think someone else could buy Dean?

[@ws8080]

Which shows how trivial these lawsuits really are - the shape of the wood shouldn't matter, it should be unique features and capabilities. None of that is in play here, and the shapes are considered generic/standards at this point that should no longer be protected anyway.

[@sqidvishus]

Okay, the tea gag had me laughing out loud for real. Thanks for the update and the much needed smile.

[@scottdalrymple1716]

I think it’s a big dose of Karma for the disrespect of Dimebag Darrell. Dimebag was or is the only reason why I ever wanted anything made by Dean. So suck it up buttercups and take your poison.

[@ronniboi312]

It's a pity Gibson can't just concentrate on making their OWN products consistently and to a better standard and let other manufactures take their chances in an overcrowded market with better and better quality standards. If you REALLY want a Gibson, then you'll pay the premium and convince yourself that you're getting more for your money. Personally, I don't give a fuck what the headstock says, if I pick something up and it feels great and I don't want to give it up then I'll keep it and play it.

[@BXGuitars]

I'll preface this by saying out of 9 guitars, I own one Gibson. I played it at a store, fell in love, bought it (then subsequently gutted the electronics). I've seen the numerous QA issues they have so it's not an instrument I'd buy sight unseen. It's also not a brand I immediately gravitate towards. All that being said, go to any guitar retailer online. Go ahead, I'll wait..... How many Gibson guitars do you see in stock? How many Dean guitars do you see in stock? Gibson isn't going anywhere while Dean isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. There's a reason you can have almost any Dean model at your house in 2 days and it's because most of them are sitting in warehouses. People who think "Gibson is dying" are absolute insane. Also if they are "just boomer guitars", why the hell are there like a billion Epiphone Les Pauls floating out in the wild at any given point?

[@preston2636]

Thays because boomers still think Gibson are good guitars and keep being them regardless of the quality control

[@MaestroJericho]

Exactly, go to GC and only new Deans are on the wall and an employee straight up told me they get new Deans only since Dean isn't in high demand so they have plenty in stock ready to sell/distribute. Those recent Charvel looking Dean superstars are all over the wall while Charvel DKs/Ibanez AZs, and even similar Schecters are always sold out but people would rather seek those out than get a Dean that they probably could ask for a discount for easily.

[@jimherleva4541]

What’ll happen is the youngsters bitching about Gibsons will grow up and realise their stupid shaped, gawdy coloured metal guitars are childish…and they’ll flip to Gibson or Fender.

[@BXGuitars]

@@jimherleva4541 I wouldn’t go that far. I have an ESP Horizon and a few other metal guitars I’ll own until I take my last breath. As I’ve grown as a player, I just want more options. There are plenty of excellent instruments that don’t fit the Gibson or Fender standard. If you stand on the “that’s stupid” logic, how are you any different then the people who are calling your more conventional instruments boomer or stupid?

[@BXGuitars]

@@preston2636 The best guitar is the one YOU enjoy playing. If that’s a Gibson, Fender, ESP, etc so be it. Acting like they are bad based on conjecture you read over the internet isn’t going to slow down a market that clearly wants Gibson guitars. Are there better options out there? Probably but there are plenty of less expensive options over Nike shoes and people still throw money at them. Live and let live. If Gibson is your thing, go buy a Gibson. If it’s Schecter, go buy that etc. etc.

[@vtwin8717]

It's really just stupid. You should be able to build & sell whatever you want and let the people decide what they wanna buy. If they buy your competitors product. You should build a better guitar

[@Stretchwreckedem469]

I think it's safe to say that i'm never buying a Gibson brand new as long as i live. There are many other brands who make guitars that are 100x better than anything you'd see from Gibson in today's time. Dean guitars is already having a rough time with their son having embezzled the company, this really isn't fair to them.

[@watcherzero000]

And that is ok with Gibson or should I say KKR & Co. Inc. their new owners cause we are about see a shitstorm in the guitar world like we have never seen they are not gonna stop with Dean guitars they will be suing more brands who have infringed on Gibson designs. KKR is a huge international investment firm that have lawyers all over the world. These owners are nothing like any of the previous Gibson owners in the past. This company if they see an opportunity they will capitalize on it and they do not give a shit who they take out. They are a company that will use their power and influence in the legal system to crush companies that threaten a brand they own. None of you people in the guitar world understand what a company like this can do.

[@absolutscheisse4483]

i literally wouldnt be surprised if someone buys epiphone off of gibson and gibson sues epiphone for copying all of their guitars

[@SixString_J5]

Dean has been DONE for a over a decade and we've just been witnessing the slow painful decline as they refuse to get out of their own way. Losing Dave Mustaine was a pretty bad embarrassment, bickering with and losing the Dimebag estate even more embarrassing, and their insistence on strange designs and options that nobody wants keeps them from atracting new players. I'd love to have an ML as a big Dime fan, but I hate the v neck profile. These are supposed to be shred guitars and they are somewhere between fender soft v and a gibson baseball bat. One of the few ML's that has a thin C is the switch blade and it has HsH pickups which is my least favorite configuration. I think the specs on some of their modern guitars look good but then they put some weird tribal symbols for the inlays. Really nothin appeals to me out of their lineup and I have pretty lenient tastes. I want a guitar that doesn't look trashy, has a thin neck, and has a pickup configuration that works for me (hh, hs, or single h).

[@FultonStreetBeats]

This breaking News Just in! A Judge has issued a judgment against the Alphabet, stating that the letter V is a clear cut infringement on Gibsons Copyright. Any company who has used the letter V in a sentence is now ordered to pay Gibson 1.6 Millon dollars per violation.

[@r.v.g.1679]

I wonder what Dean Zelinsky thinks about this.

[@Alex.Murphy0987]

He's making pretty cool guitars for himself. Not sure if he has time for bullshit like this. Who knows...?

[@neil2706]

I don't think he cares tbh it ain't his company any more

[@r.v.g.1679]

All true but he's first name on headstock. Just curious

[@49mrbassman]

I play a Dean 5 string electro acoustic bass with fishman presys electronics and it's still my favourite bass. Keep on keeping on Dean Guitars.

[@crazeyjoe]

Should Dean guitars continue, they would have to make alterations to any models they have not already done.

[@RockStarOscarStern634]

Hopefully they'll re-release the Gransport, V, & Z series of Guitars (as well as the Luna Athena series) because they do have a Special sound that could add a lot to your song covers. First of all they're not exactly gibson copies because the bodies are a bit bigger & wider (also deeper), also the necks are profiled differently. Gibson should understand this really soon. My idea was to have versions that had a slotted Headstock.

[@blkjakk]

I was told by a former endorser of Dean that Evan was a spoiled brat who didn’t know how to run the company.

[@randymiles904]

That sounds about right. I've loved dean guitars for years, but they screwed up, starting with not giving the dime estate the respect he deserves. Dime singlehandedly saved dean and hell, he's why I picked up my first one, but apparently they forgot that. Then their designs and products went to crap too. I saw this coming. It breaks my heart to see them go down but that's what happens.

[@richiebricker]

I hope they keep the "Cadillac" Thats always been one of my fav's and Ive been looking to purchase one this year but the price have jumped

[@zeppo20]

This is absurd! GOBSON SHAME ON YOU. As far for the judge... Money Talks, bullshit walks.

[@musicauthority5635]

I love it when you broke out your flask. nothing like a great cup of tea.

[@pvsnoir]

Gibson the greatest whiners of all times.

[@jimherleva4541]

You misspelt “winners”

[@pvsnoir]

@@jimherleva4541 no no. They are freaking whiners

[@Ian44_92]

I just saw that Gregg Tribbett and Jon Donais have signature guitars with Dean now. What's interesting to me is the Greg Tribbett V is the more traditional V shape the only difference being it has a 6 in line headstock shape

[@ricstormwolf]

Gibson is pathetic. They stopped being relevant decades ago and just want to be in the news. They need to pack it in.

[@friedrudibega6384]

Guitars for lawyers and doctors.

[@blkjakk]

@@friedrudibega6384 Cuz BB King & multitudes of famous Gibson players were/are all Doctors or lawyers, right?! Haha 😂

[@blkjakk]

And you know this how?! Lmao!

[@Madchris8828]

@@blkjakk the average Gibson standard is almost 3 thousand dollars, lol. Imo I can buy a guitar that plays as well if not far better for 1 or two grand less. I don't want a 21 fret guitar that's limited and looks like my grandads furniture, but that's just me. You do you

[@blkjakk]

@@Madchris8828 No way to know if you’re a player or not since you don’t have any videos up but if you are, Play whatever the hell you want to as do I. 😁

[@bpabustan]

This is just my opinion: I don't understand Gibson suing other companies left and right. While I do understand their patents and copyrights, I don't think it diminishes Gibson's prestige in any way, in fact they REFUSE to release their models in affordable price range and has to resort to Epiphone for that, and even in that manner, it is sometimes still not affordable enough. Dean and other brands can do that. I mean I have not seen Fender sue PRS now for their John Mayer model. It just annoys me. So sad...

[@josephdennany2634]

Dean's been down and out before...I fully expect them to bounce back with some killer guitars the zero and the vengeance will keep them afloat in the meantime

[@fuzzcous]

I prefer Dean's V & Z over Gibson's V & Explorers. Maybe they'll license the designs to Dean. I hope the company makes it. Good video Max

[@ryant3600]

can Dean do like most other companies Gibson has sued or tried to sue and just change a little to the shape?

[@1peanut]

So now there is a whole new era of lawsuit guitars to be had.

[@RobertWJackson]

The flask!!!! LMAO Good stuff, my friend. Great video!

[@joeymcmanus448]

I have a Dave Mustaine signature zero and evo ... Both are great players. Great information on this video Max. Cheers

[@raymondwilliams2609]

I think you're right, Max; innovation is really the only way forward and I think that's foremost in the minds of most companies regardless of what they produce. I'm hopeful myself, and I really look forward to you playing Dean's new models. My best wishes to that lovely wife of yours. 🤗☺️❤️✌️🇬🇧👋

[@marcotixxx]

i need to get a dean v to match my dean metalman v bass ASAP

[@jaronspecht2778]

There's a store where I live that's a Dean dealer and they had a Dave Mustaine V and several Dimebag Darrell models on sale. I wonder if all of these artist models will increase in value since they're discontinued. I really like the Mustaine guitar, and I'd rather $400 for that now than wait for the cheaper Kramer or Epiphone version's of Dave's Flying V

[@shawnbell6392]

No serious guitarist is going to confuse the two brands. I'd take a Dean Z or V any day over the other outfit.

[@MrSFblack]

We all know what this is about, that "copying" claim is just a front. Gibson isn't mad that other manufacturers are making similar looking guitars. That would just be hypocritical coming from the company who copied their long time rivals by making their own strats. They're mad that other companies are making BETTER versions of their guitars, just like when they sued ESP.

[@megatronn194]

Maybe if Gibson stopped catering only to the 1959 cork sniffing guitar players and stepped their game up and lowered their prices, they wouldn't have to worry about other companies making superior "copies" of their instruments. But ehhhhhh, shall we make another gold top Les Paul with a glass neck, Gibson?

[@lowtriggerweightjay7331]

I like Dean, I like Gibson but I have to say this irritates me with Gibson. I hate seeing bullying from “too big to fail corporation’s.

[@madmick9205]

Zelinsky look them up. 'Dean' Zelinksy now makes guitars from a factory in Europe and sells direct to it's customers. Awesome guitars. And no corporate bullshit!

[@richardpierce7819]

When I saw Molly Hatchet back in the day they played some custom Dean guitars as well as their gibsons and fenders.

[@Kabayoth]

I recall meeting a guy working in a food laboratory. "So you're doing experiments with sandwiches and such? I asked. Dean laboratories could go along the same lines. Sounds preposterous until what really goes on there is revealed. The potential for innovation is wide open. 1: Optical/fiber optic pickups. Primarily these land in basses. Fine, a high-end Dean bass would be appropriate to add to line. After that, migrate the technology to guitars. 2: I hate to point this out, but the updated V's and Z's risk Jackson's legal wrath. It'd be better to revise them definitively. 3: There has to be a surplus of V and Z guitars in production that are a legal liability. Sell them as kits with a caveat to post the results on social media. Rather than waste them, have a fitting swan song with the Dean community. 4: I agree the direction BC Rich took would work, but they had the advantage of updating their copyrighted designs. The updates Dean would have to take would make these guitars, of necessity, unrecognizable. About all they can salvage are the neck templates, the cavity routes, and the hardware. The body templates will have to be shelved. Furthermore the new V and Z designs from Jackson, ESP, and even Gibson are shrinking the geometric wiggle room to move forward. I can't imagine Dean getting out of the pointy guitar business, but it's probably best to examine a new flagship model for the moment. 5: This would be risky, but bring back the Dean Hardtail. It's since morphed into the Icon and a single-cut, but the original Hardtail was an astonishingly good player. I believe PRS might have muscled in and shut down the line, but they were distinctive enough to be something other than a PRS. 6: I disagree with the Super-Strat idea. The market is glutted with them. It would be best to keep the line, but keep it low-key. 7: Dean needs to make a really fine line of pickups or work out a deal with a boutique builder or two. Klein, Bareknuckle, Frailin, Lollar, and Lace comes to mind. Dimarzio started with the company, maybe Dimarzio needs to examine their expanding catalog and update their thinking with Dean. Maybe Air Nortons, Titans, Freds, Satchur8, or some of the P90 drop-ins would be appropriate.

[@valuedhumanoid6574]

If I were Dean, I would alter the design just enough to make them different enough and keep rollin'. Gibson cannot trademark general body shapes, like the V, single cut Les Paul styles, Explorer, etc. Like the ESP James Hetfield Snake Bite. It's a basic "Explorer" shape, but has some additional cuts and doodads to make it just different enough and they're golden. Same with PRS single cuts. They added a scallop on the lower curved horn and slightly altered the shape of the body...BINGO! Legal AF and Gibson can't do shit to stop it. So shame on Dean for making an exact replica of the trademarked designs. No way you can doubt that they copied it tit for tat. A little foresight can give you huge returns...

[@fargeeks]

WELL I heard Dean Zelinsky has patented their necks that has waffle in lays in the back of the neck which is supposed to reduce friction on the thumb as you slide across the neck It's called a Z glide neck

[@Fotosaurus56]

The vintage market tells you what people like and want. I don't think Chinese made guitars will ever match Gibson and Fender in that regard.

[@thorpenator9148]

They are getting better every year Reverend guitars made is Korea are amazing.

[@jamiefookes1579]

The original argument by Dean was correct. The body shapes of the Flying V, Explorer and SG have been made by other companies since at least 1976. They are now generic shapes

[@Stefan-]

Since Gibson lost the legal battle of the V design in Europe earlier unlike in the USA, wouldnt it be possible to sell them here in Europe as long as they dont produce or bring them to the USA ?. ESP is still under their brand Edwards producing what is pretty much carbon copies of Gibson V´s and Les Pauls (with open book headstock and all), the Dean V is much more different from a Gibson V than the Edwards.

[@haldasinger6440]

"It's your mom. Line 1." "Take a message." "She says you're fired."

[@jinx0192]

Boston's third stage record in the background! I was in highschool when that came out and love it to this day. Nice choice

[@nickyd9361]

I'm gonna try & copyright the C chord & its variations, no point in making anything. Suing for copyright infringement is where the $'s are at...

[@th3drizzl378]

so going back to the fender case where body shapes cant be copyrighted so how does gibson get away with this.

[@cybersquatch6938]

Loved this company when Elliott was in charge and in many ways still do I’ve met some great employees and made some friends in 12 plus years I’ve supported this company as well but it’s seems since Elliott’s passing relationships were severed mainly the endorsing artists (look at that timeline of their exile) I will also say I never saw the now former CEO Evan at any of the company events prior to him becoming CEO and I’ve been to more than a dozen but maybe he was busy with his life or I missed him in the crowd. Just my personal observations.

[@garymcaleer6112]

Thanks, GM for the update. My Dean Boca 12-string has the perfect blend of warmth and chime. Where all others are not suited for solo comps, the Boca has the best stand alone tone. My comps for Boca and voice sound full & sweet, man. Running through a T.C. Electronics G-Major and a Marshall half-stack I could listen all day, just like hearing a great jazz archtop or classical axe.

[@adrianlee3497]

Now I get why Rita Haney wants to distance the Dimebag brand from Dean

[@dracul9166]

Great, just as I was getting into Dean Vs and saving up for one... Man, screw Gibson, nothing says competence like legally subduing your competition over similarities between the products, yes, similarities, if Dean guitars were faithful clones or replicas of Gibson models to the point of not knowing which is which, then sure, that's copyright infringement because someone looking to buy a Gibson might end up with a Dean instead, but that’s not the case at all, no one, NO ONE will ever buy a Dean V thinking it's a Flying V, in the same way no one will buy a Dual Rectifier or 6505 thinking it's an SLO-100, or a Friedman or Ceriatone thinking it's a Marshall, or a BluesBreaker thinking it's a Bassman, etc. And the guitar world is weird like that, people copying or borrowing ideas or designs from others to change, modify or improve them, and that's a really cool thing, but things like these lawsuits destroy that, if this had happened back in the day and somehow Fender sued Marshall, the tube amp world and, for that matter, the entire history of guitar, and by extension of Rock and Metal, wouldn't exist as we know it, nothing says Rock n' Roll as a lawsuit, huh?... And there's no point in doing this, there's room for everyone in terms of market size, GAS is a thing, if a guitarist is deciding between two guitars or amps, he/she will most likely will end up buying both anyway one at a time, someone might buy a Dean V and then later will get a Flying V, and if they don't, well that's how a real free market works, if people buy a Dean or whatever instead of a Gibson, there are reasons for that, a lot of them pretty valid and we all know what those are, and then "because I like it better" is reason enough... This is a straight up monopoly, with this, Gibson is taking away from customers the ability to choose between their product or someone else's, and that's just bullying, I really hope this comes back to bite them in the ass, as it usually happens with their business strategies... This is really a bummer, I was really getting into the Dean headstock shape, and the prices were much more accessible...

[@milnerization]

This is definitely sad to see :,(

[@dylansmith880]

Tell me if I’m wrong but why would Gibson go for the little guys. Not “little” as a small company but a different customer base. A Dean Edge 4 bass was my first bass. How many people will not ever pick up a guitar now because they can’t afford the Gibson name. I know there are other lower end models but this sets a precedent that larger companies can do whatever they want.

[@JamesPetroff]

Dean should appeal because this is obviously a ridiculous verdict. If you look at the jury verdict, the jury said consumers would be confused that Dean's guitars are really Gibsons. What??? That is ludicrous. These are not counterfeits. They have totally different headstocks, different branding too. The jury also founds "laches," meaning they waited too long to enforce the trademark, and so the jury apparently entered a compromise verdict for only $4000. The judge then erroneously ignores the laches finding and enters an injunction out of the blue. Crazy. Don't forget Gibson lost its Les Paul 2005 case against PRS on appeal because nobody would confuse the guitars, just like here. The jury was obviously confused and the judge just committed error.

[@leonardskinerd7758]

My Les Paul that I had to sell about a year ago for financial reasons, will my last Gibson. When JC took over as CEO, the company was supposed to be going in a new direction. No more trying to sue their way out of bankruptcy. Well, it's been more of the same.

[@joshfranklin1894]

My first guitar about 25 years ago was a red Dean V and my cousin still has his Dean Z.

[@doctoribanez]

Probably needs to go to a higher court. This would end all the millions of strat shaped guitars and pretty much everything else. Doesn't make sense. Gibson sucks

[@DizzyDez613]

I still have desires to purchase an ocean burst V select. I hope the price didn’t just skyrocket. 😱

[@mikeb5372]

Doesn't make sense. Dean V guitars have a completely different headstock. Does this mean Fender can sue the hundreds of copy companies which only difference is different headstock shapes? This is crazy!

[@DizzyDez613]

Literally every guitar company makes a Les Paul body guitar. Are they gonna all have to cease and desist too? Is Fender gonna try to strong arm literally every company for making a strat style model? If Dean has been making these guitars for decades, why didn’t Gibson do this in the 70’s? There should be a statute of limitations that you can’t wait 45 years to pursue copy-write infringement on someone. “Well, your honour. We didn’t care for the first 44 years. But by year 45, we’re kind of fed over this.”