Dear Marvel, Stop Trying To End The World

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Marvel, stop doing end of the world plots; it's getting boring.
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0:00 - Intro
1:39 - Where Marvel Has Done It Right
2:42 - Why World Ending Threats Can Be Great
5:24 - Why Shang-Chi's Climax Fell Flat
8:30 - Bigger Is Not Better
10:14 - But Also, Big Is Not Bad
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[@TheCloserLook]

Hey Guys, I hope you liked this one! If you'd like to join my Discord server where I'm very active, and where you can chat with hundreds of other writers on the craft, do click my link to it down below. Looking forward to seeing you there! My Discord Server: discord.com/invite/aJpYPQX Best, - Henry

[@whitefang2312]

Closer Look discord server? Yes please

[@musajaved9862]

Did you watch The Batman? What did you think of it?

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@The_Closer_Look I want to caution against this line of thinking in the video. It's kind of obvious the Ring is going to eventually get destroyed when the Lord of the Rings trilogy starts, that doesn't make the films boring. Also, if you've already seen a movie before, you already know what's going to happen, but people are often still entertained re-watching it. The problem fundemtally is not that the bad guy can't win, it's that the stakes have become cliché.

[@sussyminecraftbaka3486]

Please make a video about game of thrones I need to hear what you have to say about it

[@ireviewdopesht7216]

Honestly, I think the mcu just copied the james bond model... And because of its success I don't blame them... The main differences is that James bond is still a man, a human being, who we can at times relate to, for example, his mistresses who he falls in and out of love with, sometimes its his weakness... Whereas the mcu are a bunch of cape wearing aliens who fly through the sky... And whenever we are reminded of some detail in the plot that sounds a little cliche, we no longer become suspended from reality

[@atlasprime6193]

MCU: “Earth is going to be destroyed…” Audience: “So it’s NOT going to be destroyed.”

[@TheCloserLook]

this

[@gambit9172]

What if episode 4,5,8

[@kaiphan1346]

@@gambit9172 Still doesn't have the characters were invested in or the universe we follow in

[@cristhiamg.salgado3845]

@@gambit9172 yeah a what if, an alternative story, the can do whatever they want on those

[@JokeCubed]

It also doesn't help when Marvel announces their release schedule. I get that they want to get people excited and generate hype for upcoming movies, but at this point we know every Marvel movie/tv show that will be coming out in like, the next 5 years. I know some people felt a little cheated about the emotional climax of Infinity War, when Spiderman gets dusted, because Marvel had already announced that there would be another Spiderman movie, so we know it won't last.

[@eeveeofalltrades4780]

"Dear Marvel, please stop trying to end the world" Marvel: "Ok" *proceeds to try to end the multiverse*

[@r.jguerra5526]

XD

[@equinox3653]

Now this is funny 😂

[@allan4423]

Underrated comment

[@citizenvulpes4562]

"See it's different because it's bigger hur dur"- some marvel employee.

[@ultragamer8816]

Tht includes the world

[@SparkTFS]

If all villains are "the biggest threat yet", then noone really is.

[@my3buppies]

Bro that makes no sense 💀

[@zwei.0002]

@@my3buppiesHe means that the more you use the “end of the world” climax each film, it eventually loses its value

[@catapultato1733]

and when everyone's high stakes no one will be

[@joseoh5856]

It reminds me of Syndrom lol

[@ogeraldo1388]

​@@my3buppiesu braindead?

[@F0RLORN]

"The more predictable a story is, the more boring it is." Phineas and Ferb: *hold our summer vacation*

[@r.jguerra5526]

*f e r b I k n o w w h a t w e ' r e g o n n a d o t o d ay*

[@spaceorsaturn]

This is actually true

[@andrewg.3281]

This brings up an important distinction that many people miss and it seems like he missed as well: a predictable outcome does not mean a predictable story. Perry will always thwart Doofenshmirtz and Phineas and Ferb's invention will always disappear before their mom gets home, but *how* that happens is what makes it interesting.

[@timtamz3223]

Regular show😈

[@Digicoree]

​@@timtamz3223 I mean for their defense, they actually got fired one time as benson said haha

[@petery6432]

This is why I love Homecoming. It has fitting stakes for a "Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman" story. Vulture winning isn't going to end the world; it just means that a criminal will get away. They should really save big stakes for the big events.

[@ConnorEllisMusic]

I like FFH more as it attempts to trick the audience into believing it's another end of the world one until it isn't.

[@sangeetakolase2139]

Indeed bro

[@bigb5362]

Civil war ending too, we had no idea who would “win” the fight between iron man and cap and Bucky.

[@the_last_refrigerator]

@TerminalCandor I think you might have mixed up Spider man: homecoming with Spider man: no way home

[@superninjapirate19]

My problem with homecoming and every other Tom Holland movie is that it’s just not a Spider-Man movie. Peter Parker is an idiot, he’s not Spider-Man but iron man junior, New York City is not a character, and tbh I’m sick of everything being connected. We need a Spider-Man story where NYC is a living breathing character and Peter is totally on his own trying to figure out how to solve the threat. Marvel needs to embrace a stand-alone film that doesn’t feel the necessity to be connected to everything else

[@d.j.mulcahy1657]

I feel like End of the World stories should only really be used for the end of a story or series. If you use stakes that large too early, the audience will call your bluff and know that you don’t have what it takes to destroy the world so soon.

[@TheCloserLook]

Yeah, i do kind of say that point in the end of the video, but 100%. I think marvel can still do billions of people may die stories, but they literally need to do them once every four years because we just get numb to it

[@d.j.mulcahy1657]

@@TheCloserLook I constantly used these end-of-the-world-level threats in my early stories. I even tried implementing a multiverse because Marvel and DC used shared universes. But my friend recommended that I scale back my work and focus on smaller-scale events. And because of that, I've been able to focus more on character-driven stories.

[@TheCloserLook]

@@d.j.mulcahy1657 Good, that's probably the way to go.

[@XellithUS]

Thats one of the reasons I love Final Fantasy XIV. It kinda has "end of the world" stuff, but its nuanced and done in such a way that the final expansion really hits the nail on the head with the stakes.

[@justingary5322]

@@TheCloserLook Exactly those End of the world stories are only for Crisis stories not every Marvel film that's why I like DC movies they're ranging from citywide, countrywide it global threats but they pace themselves

[@TerrAkon3000]

I vividly remember thinking to myself the avengers would have to win somehow in Infinity War. But as the film went on, it was made abundantly clear that they did not deserve to win. The moment I went from wondering how they were going to ex machina themselves out of that situation to the realization that they were actually going to lose was the most satisfying experience I might have ever had while watching a movie.

[@Psrj-ad]

Infinity war will forever be one the biggets peaks in modern cinema. Thanos wasent just built up over a long period. But they also gave him a good character. Him actually winning at the end of infinity war was an insanely suprising and refreshing twist.

[@juannaym8488]

I never understood why the ending of Infinity War surprised people. I mean it was clear from the beginning that there will be a part 2, part 1 ending with the heroes winning just makes no sense. It would be as if a movie would be resolved by act 2

[@williamp9560]

Many people thought Thanos would not collect all the stones the first movie and in the second all the heroes would fight a 6 stone Thanos and some heroes would die along the way. In the promo material they hid how many stones Thanos had at any given time. Honestly how could you believe they would let Thanos win when no villian won when there were world ending stakes. Yes you can say read the comics or “it was obvious” but that’s all hindsight. There was no precedent in the MCU until that movie and many were impressed they had the balls to do it that way.

[@deeznutz7255]

@@juannaym8488What was great for me was that I was a new Marvel fan at the time, so I had no idea there was a part 2, so leaving the theater I was just thinking “WTF”. Even with Endgame, we weren’t entirely sure the heroes would win, until Sony released a bunch of promos for FFH that is.

[@finallychangedthis]

Infinity war worked super well because we had no idea what would happen. Subsequently, endgame worked because we were worried which characters would be killed off, not necessarily from the fear they would lose again

[@user-ls3gv8mj3g]

That’s why infinity war worked so well, it completely flipped the script. Humour wasn’t the main goal since the main character was thanos

[@pst5345]

troll humor. Knowing the movie is a PG13 Thanos trolled by stating Thor should have gone for the head. biggest brain 4th wall break.

[@disco8301]

A quote from C.S. Lewis that applies really well with this topic, "Don't use words too big for the subject. Don't say 'infinitely' when you mean 'very'; otherwise you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite." If you keep throwing the BIGGEST and BADDEST villains with the HIGHEST stakes scenarios you are going to run out of them and the audience will no longer care. Who cares anymore if they already fought the biggest one ever, the most 'infinitely' powerful one.

[@zoestarbuck9892]

I couldn’t agree more. That quote reminds me of dynamics while playing music, you can’t have a crescendo start if you’re already playing loud, you need to build up to it

[@paveantelic7876]

fully agree. americans have practically replaced "pretty good" with "amazing"

[@smobowser99]

And that is what I think will end up being the end of the MCU. People will eventually stop caring because Marvel has no way of making the stakes bigger.

[@GeorgeThoughts]

Hello Future Me has a good video about "Power Creep" which is similar to this. If your characters keep getting stronger and stronger, then the stakes have to keep growing and growing until you've left your small scale personal narrative behind for a universe ending god battle. Anime often suffers from this when the series/manga just keep going and going. Albeit I understand that the point of shonan IS to grow in power, so stakes are less important, but it's still a good case study for power creep and high-stake creep in stories.

[@scpfilechildrenbarrow2212]

DC comics in a nutshell. DC is way worse than Marvel in this department.

[@TheNamesFathom]

“the same amount of stakes you’d find in a vegan restaurant.” Henry, you are a goddamned genius.

[@arcangherss999]

And the good thing is that in vegan restaurants you will find Steaks, but they are not REAL Steaks so the metaphor still holds up!

[@bakarenibsheut12]

@@arcangherss999 That's a brilliant insight! XD

[@arcangherss999]

@@bakarenibsheut12 thanks ;)

[@mrm9570]

I liked the video after that joke!

[@arcangherss999]

@@ponhco4464 But not a steak, right?

[@Annie-mr6xg]

I love how these world ending movies go from, "Jesus the world will explode!" to me thinking, "Who even cares about actual humans anymore." I wish the stakes would go wayyy down and make the stories a little more interpersonal

[@mrusername3438]

Cringe. imagine watching a world ending movie and you're like " I want everybody to do die because filthy human lul". Like who even cares about you?

[@BambinaSaldana]

Imagine a movie where at the start the stakes are end-of-the-world type stuff, but it gradually goes down and down until the characters realize nothing is wrong, nothing's happening, "what was that about?"

[@joshraid1550]

I was so surprised by the last of us episode one because somehow the big baysplosion in the background filled me with dread, in a way that I'd never known I could experience from this. Once they made it very small and personal instead of grandiose and meaningless, suddenly I cared a lot about this stuff.

[@JustinHJJH]

GOTG 3 did exactly just this. The high evolutionary is threating to end rocket

[@shealupkes]

The movies have made it unanimously clear that outside of those closest to them Marvel's heroes don't give a single fuck about regular people, the "everyone will die" line had only gotten more and more hollow over time

[@8BLOO8]

Another thing that usually bothers me about world ending stakes is that it’s just so hard for me to comprehend the violent end of the world that it just doesn’t feel compelling

[@Lilith_Harbinger]

Not just you friend. It's a well known thing. We don't care about imaginary people we know nothing about. We barely care for real people we know nothing about. We care about the heroes we've been following. When Thanos was about to erase half of life, we didn't really care for 99% of the human population, we cared about the ones we knew well who we might lose.

[@ImpulsivelyBree]

Also if the world ended, no one would be around to care so why should we?

[@greenxenon4]

My friends hated me because I loved infinitywar. They all hated the hero’s losing and I was so happy that it changed what I thought would happen.

[@acrsclspdrcls1365]

Oh, the fools.

[@Nev1812]

Tell them to watch Endgame 🙃

[@thedreal8584]

Except that even a 12 year old (all the brain capacity one needs to watch the mcu) knew marvel would just bring them back later lol🤣🤣🤣

[@FireJach]

Your friends are childish

[@hanan1205]

I enjoyed it more than end game

[@DrDiabolical000]

I defend Marvel a lot. But yeah... they actually need to stop doing this. The reason I liked Marvel shows especially Hawkeye was because they were character centric, not world ending and grounded.

[@aqiel_leiqa]

the characters in Hawkeye are really terrible, mate. It's a really really shit story that cramps everything when it's just physically impossible. 6 episodes of time wasted. Just stop simping.

[@hephsforge9236]

@@aqiel_leiqa honestly was thinking the same when Shang Chi’s character relationships was brought up as a positive of the film. Like, there are trailers of films alone that do character relationships better. Even amongst Marvel Films, the movie is on the lower end of character relationships. Don’t even get me started on the action.

[@zaccarver8913]

@@aqiel_leiqa bruh its ok for someone to like movie / tv show

[@istvanvincze7411]

@@hephsforge9236 Please, get started on the action. I'm curious to hear why you didn't like it, I personally did. It was a refreshing change of pace from the giant lasers and indestructible armors and space magic spam. That's good to see sometimes, too, but I haven't seen not only a marvel film, but any film whatsoever that leans on eastern martial arts for a while. I acknowledge that I may be biased because of nostalgia for those films, but I really don't see why people trash on the action scenes in that movie.

[@hephsforge9236]

@@istvanvincze7411 oh I agree it’s definitely a step up from lasers, just it’s weak as a film focused on martial arts. I am a big fan of martial arts in films as well as a martial artist myself so that might create a bias in me. The combat just falls into a lot of the general pitfalls most major films that have martial arts present fall into, decent at best choreography, unrealistic in combat decisions, unrealistic impact. Like I’d call it passable overall especially considering who it’s coming from, but not great.

[@kkouga_]

the fact that saving 1 raccoon felt way more important than saving the multiverse really says how overdone universe ending events are

[@michaelbonet9062]

This is one reason I enjoyed Guardians 2. It has a galaxy-ending threat in the background, but it’s about found family. It’s about heroes who need each other on an emotional level since they all come from abusive families. I also loved what Wandavision was doing with its story until Agatha reveals she’s a witch and then it becomes two powerful beings shooting magic lasers at each other. It takes a complex story about trauma and what that does to a character with magic powers and instead reduces it to good vs evil.

[@thevenom1470]

I think Avengers: Infinity War did a good job when it came to such a plot. It was severely hinted that Thanos was going to end the world, by snapping his fingers and erasing half of the universe's lifeforms. But we never knew if he was going to succeed, since it was always the Avengers having the upperhand and then Thanos quickly gaining it back. So it was a constant back and forth between: will they or will they not? And when Thanos won... It was so satisfying. Never, have I felt joy or the want for an antagonist to win like in this one.

[@niklashannemann8482]

The thing with Infinity War was: It wasnt meant to end the world, just the world as we know it. That is a completely different thing because, as explained in the video, the world will not end, but the world as we know it might and, looking at IW, did, so why not again?

[@EBFilmsMan]

Many people believe Thanos was the hero of IW, because he won.

[@MrLachapell]

They ruined it by announcing infinity war was going to be 2 part, you inmediately know that something went wrong in the first part

[@niklashannemann8482]

@@MrLachapell thats not true. If you knew IW would be a win for Thanos just by the fact it has a sequel, what about Captain America, Ironman, Thor, GotG?

[@RodrigoroRex]

@@MrLachapell I mean it's a movie about superheroes and superheroes losing and then do nothing about it doesn't sound satisfying. Either you have an happy ending or a bad ending that completes a character and Thanos winning might be satisfactory but living with the consequences of the snap isnt

[@periidote9778]

I think what's really important for a "the world's going to end story" is to not focus on *will* they succeed, but *how* will they succeed. Take Rogue One, for example. We all know the mission will succeed, that's how the first star wars movie starts, but the actual question is *at what cost?* Or any romance story where you know the leads will end up together, but the real question is *how* do these two different people grow and learn to love one another? I know at the end of a mystery story the mystery will be solved, but I'm curious about how it's solved and who the culprit is.

[@LignGranite]

The final act of Rogue One is the best thing in Disney Star War.

[@r.jguerra5526]

I thought the same while watching Eternals. "How are they going to destroy a celestial?"

[@DualWieldFTW]

Tenet went a little meta with "what's happened happened", that to affect inverse material you have to will it. This shifts the focus of the plot from the literally universe ending threat, instead focusing on how our two main characters are gonna do the fucking impossible.

[@sopankahbegituh]

​Tenet, Dark knight, Inception.. literally every Nolan movie. We knew that the protagonist will win, but what makes the movie so enjoyable is the advanture, the plot, the music, the cinematography, and so much more

[@anska7475]

That‘s, what I was thinking too. You don‘t go into a „Titanic“ movie wondering if the ship will reach New York. You are certain the thing will go down and the sinking becomes the setting for the story you want to tell. Also, in case of world-ending-thread-scenarios it would be helpful if they weren‘t presented as either-or scenarios, either the world is saved or destroyed, but rather as grades of destruction, how much of the world will become uninhabitable. In general though, I am extremely bored with cartoonish world-ending stories, which feel extremely shallow in light of actual problems Earth faces.

[@jamesliketrain6788]

this is 100% true. When I watched stranger things, season 1 in my opinion was the best but 4 was the worst, because the stakes were no longer a small town, they were the whole world. It made it feel like hundreds of deaths had no effect, where in season 1, a single kid being lost was so scary because it was just so personal, you felt for the characters more.

[@travisschuyler5590]

Completely horrific take. The stakes of season 4 couldn’t be higher. Don’t ever compare the masterpiece of stranger things to the garbage of the mcu

[@lefudj4236]

@@travisschuyler5590no

[@littlehorn0063]

Entirely right opinion. What was at stake of season 4 could be different. Compare whatever you feel appropriate, as you will be right and wrong at the same time. Buncha people and buncha opinions, so do whatever you feel like

[@rosamy2017]

I love lower stakes stories. They show you who the character is, what they like, who they love and who they’ve lost. The only high stakes solo movie I liked was the first Dr Strange. It made sense for the sorcerers to face a world-ending threat without calling in the Avengers because 1. They were shown to be the ONLY people with the powers necessary to stop it, and 2. Many of them had egos large enough that it’s in character for them to refuse to call in help from someone they view as weaker than them. It was very disappointing the direction the second Dr Strange went. With someone as powerful as Dr Strange, I do expect a large story. But it doesn’t have to be about worlds ending and death. It could have been about discovery, exploration, and personal loss.

[@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868]

but like it was though. everyone says this but that movie was incredibly personal. The stakes aren't that high, it's one person's life on the line, but through his adventure, Strange and Wanda both have strong character growth, and ultimately they defeat her in a very personal way. There was never a world at stake, they used the movie to set up the idea of incursions for the greater MCU but that was never actually a risk. It was the story of Strange learning to move on with his life while Wanda learned the same lesson. The main symbol across both movies was his watch. It broke when he lost his hands, keeping a part of him frozen in that moment, but through this movie he learned to keep moving forward and ultimately giving up that watch was the key to moving forward. The movie is basically magical A Christmas Carol. We see what Strange _was_ in defender strange, calculating and cold, we see what he is in 838 strange, reckless and powerful, and we see what he could be in sinister strange, malicious, hateful, and murderous. Seriously, I get they were being subtle about it for most of the film but how did yall watch the scene with Sinister strange and not realize this? He literally says "Hey remember you at the start of this film? I'm that except if America Chavez never showed up"

[@miss_bec]

I think that the "world ending threat" scenario in Doctor Strange is handled the best of any origin film in the MCU. Even though we know the stakes are, in the end, non-existent, the movie is still fantastic because 1) the focus of the movie is on the characters and not the BBEG that literally nobody cares about, and 2) when the world ending threat is made important during the climax, the focus is shifted away from Dormamu and placed on Strange as it's used as a way to bring to light his intelligence and - more importantly - his persistence.

[@MrMeszaros]

I would add, that after losing his master, we see how truly he changed: old strange wouldn't sacrifice himself for other people. Going into the loop means who know how long suffering, and only dormamu and Strange experiences the repetitive deaths. We do not know how many times until Dormamu, this timeless shapeless ancient evil is annoyed enough to let them talk it out. A few hundred, a thousand, a million?

[@fatezero8662]

@@MrMeszaros Doctor Strange is so underrated, if only the film wasn't plagued with mcu kiddy jokes and a generic villain like Kaecilius. The movie could have been perfect, the third act was simply masterful.

[@megablueflash1816]

That said, I still wish Dormammu was done a bit better. An entity like that being defeated in that manner feels off.

[@shathaan1763]

dormamu... I've come to bargain

[@MrMeszaros]

@@fatezero8662 Yeah, the villain is a bit generic, but the twist, that he is doing the same as the master (secretly), makes up for that to me. I do not remember MCU kiddy jokes, or them bothering me. To me, Dr.Strange is the best Marvel movie.

[@vsf_dave811]

This is why I love Netflix’s Daredevil so much. Small scale stories with very tangible stakes make me care so much more about the characters. Daredevil isn’t trying to stop the world from ending, he’s just trying to get rid of the corruption in the small part of the city where he grew up. This framework creates situations in which we actually don’t know whether or not the protagonist will succeed, as well as giving him obstacles that genuinely feel insurmountable and not “well X thing has to happen so he’s going to overcome whatever he needs to”

[@nostalgiatrip7331]

this is exactly why i love daredevil too. now that you mention it. the shows just takes itself more seriously even though its smaller stakes, but its a very good thing because its deserved.

[@yassin6103]

you'd love the punisher series

[@ManishSingh-jz2hx]

@@yassin6103 The fight scenes are just chef's kiss.

[@Sans-oc1ie]

Honestly same but I was a bit annoyed because the Avengers saving the world but Daredevil have to save NY seems to make it seem like a less important plot.

[@vsf_dave811]

@@Sans-oc1ie I’d argue that it’s better because the stakes are far more personal for Daredevil which makes the audience care a lot more about what’s happening and makes them interested to dive into the philosophy of the hero, and why they choose to fight that fight. When the Avengers are fighting to save the world, it’s like well, yeah of course they’re gonna do that. But why does Matt Murdock care so much about saving these couple of blocks in New York from Kingpin? That’s way more interesting to me.

[@CandyThePuppy]

"The story has the same amount of steaks you'd find in a vegan restaurant." 😂😂🤣 PRICELESS!

[@tyleralmquist7606]

I think the only time this sort of story telling worked was with Infinity War and Endgame. While Thanos does lose in the end, so much is changed and lost in the battle against him that it never feels like things will just go back to normal like they were before the films

[@Cunnysmythe]

I think the world being destroyed is something people can't really conceive of or relate to in any meaningful sense. Even Infinity War went for half of humanity dying as opposed to the entire planet being demolished. There's a very personal impact to that that anyone can get on board with. Planetary destruction I think can only work in a large-scale work like Star Wars where your home planet is equivalent to a regular person's hometown. I'll be engaged if you're going to destroy Tatooine but threaten the whole galaxy and I'm going to snore

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

See why the First Order's first act being 'let's nuke 5 planets from across the galaxy' led to a very deep hole in my stomach when I saw it on screen. "Oh nooooooo....." Not for the reason I'm sure the writers were going for, just the concern about that being the first thing they went for.

[@Mpiewizard]

Don’t Look Up did it really well too. Even though I wasn’t a huge fan of the obvious political message of that movie, I loved that it ended the way that it did.

[@roaringthunder115]

Yeah

[@sophie427]

This is a great way to think about it! Yes, the world was going to end in Infinity War, but in a way that was extremely emotional and effects everyone in a deeply personal way. It perfectly fits the idea of what REALLY makes a scene sad is the reaction other characters have, NOT the action itself.

[@JokeCubed]

@@sophie427 What Marvel did really well with that though, is that they didn't just jump into the solution with Endgame, they actually let us sit with it for a little bit. We get to see just how crappy the world is, how Natasha and Steve are trying to hold things together, how Thor has basically checked out, the massive memorials for those who lost their lives in the snap. We saw the destruction and so were able to relate to it a lot more.

[@4amlibra]

I remember in One Piece during the Arabasta arc there was a moment when the villain threatened to destroy a tiny plot of land in the middle of the desert, a dried-up former-oasis, that was home to exactly one guy. One old man and a few small buildings. That’s it. And it was DEVASTATING. Because we *knew* that old man, we cared about him, the hero sat and talked with him and let us get to know him and how optimistic he was and how much he loved his home and was sure it would return to its former glory any day now. Pretty much the opposite of threatening to end the world, and yet it mattered *so* much more.

[@OfficialTigerino]

Yeah Arabasta arc was on a different level because despite the steaks at risks, it was the people the characters knew in person that needed to be saved, and it really helped the narrative that the people make the country. Vivi wanted to save the people she cared, Luffy wanted to honour the man's water, the Guards wanted to protect Vivi because they failed before. Hell, even the villains had relation driven plots (Mr2, Robin). The scene when Vivi goes into panic and then Luffy punches her and states that people WILL die in the war really outlines the stakes the characters really cared. It was person, yet higher than whatever master plan Crocodile had in mind.

[@pavankalyanm6292]

indeeddd

[@pergys6991]

Its what so incredible about One Pieces arcs. When you think about the bigger picture, arcs like Arlong Park, Thriller Bark, Sakura Island are very small and pretty much irrelevant to the big picture of the One Piece world but they feel so much bigger because we are more emotionally invested with the settings. We spent a hundred chapters exploring Thriller Bark and all of its diverse peoples, we spent literally the entire series with Nami so we know and like her a lot. So when we witnesses these arcs, they feel so much more impactful because we want to see our favourite characters win. Hell, its why Marineford, Water Seven, Impel Down arcs is one of the communities favourites. Although each of these arcs have massive ramifications for the world, they still feel hype as fuck because Oda managed to perfectly blend the smaller motivations with the larger world intentions and make them both matter as well. When we see Usopp burn down the World Government flag, when we see Luffy punch a Celestial Dragon, when we see Ace die in front of our eyes, we get so invested in these because we know their doing this not for some grand reason or goal but because they want their friend back.

[@cristhiamg.salgado3845]

A shame that One piece has no stakes because no one fking dies, except Ace, poor Ace

[@Dragonfire1321]

@@cristhiamg.salgado3845 Man, I was so incredibly mad at the end of skypeia when everyone turned out to be alive.

[@bluepeppermint3790]

This is one of the reasons why Thor Ragnarok will always be one of my favourite MCU movies. The stakes are high in the world of the protagonist, that being Asgard. And our expectations are subverted when the conclusion is that Ragnarok can't be averted, but Asgard can't be destroyed either because it's the people making it what it is, not the location. Also against popular opinion I also think the humour is great, the colours, camera work and character development all work together wonderfully.

[@titangamerhd9215]

agreed I love that movie, so glad I got the pleasure to see it in the theater.

[@lanychabot-laroche135]

I just felt they missed the mark a bit on the scale. In the end, it looks like they save like 100 people, which is insanely small considering the size of that world, or even just the city.

[@ghristophermyers666]

imagine them doing a world ending plot and it actually happens, only for the audience to find out that it's a different universe

[@haroonlarracas7546]

Might as well be an interesting story but it was all a dream

[@GamingWithHajimemes]

I'd say it can work if they establish it early on that it's an alternative universe. Have small changes but make them subtle. They work in comics, why not movies?

[@sunshineeee]

This is literally just every other episode of Miraculous Ladybug lmfao

[@txma.]

The ending of shang chi would’ve been so much more interesting if shang was forced to kill his dad in order to keep the dragon from breaking free. Keeping the dragon locked up would allow it to be a larger threat in a more important larger scale mcu movie later on and also allow the ending to be much more personal. Like having the 10 rings be the key to the gate and the only way to take them away from his father would be ending his life. Another thing that would make the fight much more intimate would be to have them slowly come to realize the emotions both of them have kept locked up. Whilst fighting they come to understand each other, but their motives are so opposing that they HAVE to fight each other to reach a resolve; Shang to stop the gate from opening and his father to release his wife

[@MauZangetsu]

This. So much this

[@leonardopossidente6551]

Shang chi was terrible

[@andrewg.3281]

No. Just no. Well for one, it would be much darker and not fit well with the movie marvel is trying to make. But more importantly, it would ruin Wenwu's character arc. He would never realize that he was wrong and would never entrust Shang-Chi with the rings. He would be left as a villian with no payoff for his relationship with Shang-Chi. It would change him from one of the best MCU villians to just another mediocre one. Plus it also messes up Shang-Chi's character as well. Him awakening the dragon showed how he was still in touch with his mother's culture and him killing the monster showed how he was skilled with the rings like his father. But more importantly, at the end of the movie Shang-Chi retains his cheery personality that he had at the beginning of the movie which he wouldn't if he had to kill his father.

[@juancampos5582]

@@andrewg.3281 I really think both of you are right, and as you say, it wouldnt give closure to Wenwu's arc, what I really think would've made a difference was the moment when Wenwu dies, it is logical in the writers perspective that it was so shang chi could get the whole power of the ten rings for the final battle, but personally i would've liked so much that Wenwu died later on rather mid fight with the dragon or at the end of it, at least shang and his sister came to terms there, but what if Wenwu was still figting a little more with shang chi so he couldnt fight the dragon, and shang chi realized he cant beat his father, to make at least the stakes of all the main characters dying higher, then in some way as they fight, realize each others thoughts, the death of Wenwu was already very dark and emotional as his soul is absorbed, so they could've shared thoughts as they fight, then at the Middle or end of the climax with the dragon Wenwu realizes he was wrong and he knows the only way to fix everything is with the power of all ten rings, so in some way he would sacrifice himself to give an opportunity to shang chi and as he does he then gives his five rings to shang so he can defeat the dragon, I think that would've made such a difference as the plot of the main relationship between them prevails just a little more, so it has more effect on the audience and the defeat of the big threat isnt just plain and makes a far more interesting solution where you dont care about the threat anymore, instead you care about how the solution is gonna be and what effect will it have on our protagonists, 'cause I think in reality, the defeat of the dragon didnt have a big effect in the protagonists because you already know shang with all his power was gonna be able to defeat it, a little long text lol but saw you sharing your thoughts so I figured i could share mine haha hope you guys like it.

[@KidTrigger]

You want his dad to die tf? Why

[@gabrielamorim8377]

it's incredible that in the new batman the stakes feel way higher than in any marvel movie that talks about the end of the world, even though my man the riddler was justing a menance to Gotham (despite avengers 3 and 4 I'd say), it has really become something generic about their plot.

[@TheCloserLook]

I've seen stories which are about nothing but family drama and I've cared so much, and I've seen stories about the impending apocalypse and couldn't have cared less.

[@someguyorsomethingidk]

@@TheCloserLook thats incredibly well put, I couldn't agree more

[@rskl8083]

I wouldnt agree for a big part of the movie i had no idea the stakes were flooding all of gotham… and i couldnt care less about the hospital scene with alfred, and they destroy a bunch of shit on the highway chase scene which leads to nothing… idk maybe im the only one who thinks the new batman was a bit disappointing

[@ChainGangShow]

Oh...The new Batman movie had No Climax Stakes for God Sakes, Flooding is not a stake, The stake was to save Bella Real (1 D Character) 😷

[@greatestever2560]

Obviously not Batman is a Street Level Character nobody in his Rouges Gallery can blow away the Earth

[@alexiasrei3594]

This is why I think Ant-Man and the Wasp is a pretty underrated Marvel movie, I’m surprised I haven’t seen anyone mention it. Sure, it’s not the most memorable, but it stood out to me because of how low the stakes are. As far as I know, this is the only MCU movie where they weren’t fighting to save millions or thousands of lives. No, they just wanted to save one life; Hope’s mother. That’s their whole motive. The villains didn’t want to destroy or conquer the world either. All Ava Starr wanted was to save herself. And also Sonny, who just wanted profit. While not the best MCU movie, it’s still fun to watch and personally I liked it more than Eternals. And more importantly Ant-Man and the Wasp proves that you can make an engaging superhero plot without world-ending stakes. For a story, saving your family can be just as important as saving the world.

[@ChasehaWing]

There were three stakes to that movie, Hope's mum, Luis' security business, and Scott finishing his sentence without being caught going outside so he could spend more time with his family. And I cared about all of them because these were things the characters wanted/ loved, and I care for these characters. Like you said, sometimes you just want people you like succeed at protecting what they love most.

[@82844]

​@@ChasehaWingThey each have their own stakes but the fact that they could resolve it together slowly despite them not pulling their punches makes the whole movie worthwhile

[@catprog]

And it had an intresting super hero fight.

[@shoazdon7000]

I’m not going to lie I think the dad was a better written character than Shang chi himself, I would’ve loved to have more films with his character and with the actor. His dads character represented a style of cinema to me that is rare these days. As soon as his dads story arc ended it became a typical marvel movie again

[@eleeuroandoro3041]

Imagine if instead of the dad dying, Shang Chi saves him, while losing his life. And then the dad gets all the rings back, "dismantles" the 10 rings (still having the post credit scene), and vowing to do better with his power

[@julienvalley28]

@@eleeuroandoro3041and then there’s a good explanation for why we’ll most likely never see Shang chi again

[@Quirkless84]

Marvel just absolutely ran this plot idea into the ground, thank you for highlighting it, and thank you for all of your videos.

[@TheCloserLook]

No problem, more on the way!

[@maloukadaknou153]

@@TheCloserLook make a batman video

[@Blue-Apple-fc9eo]

@@TheCloserLook Good review, However i do disagree your opinion on the last jedi i thought the movie was ok.

[@BattlestarZenobia]

They’ve done it in like 10 films out of 27, that’s hardly run into the ground

[@hydrocritical2268]

@@BattlestarZenobia That’s a lot. Just because there’s 17 other films doesn’t mean it’s not getting stale

[@homeworksdone2378]

ShangQi should have ended with the fight with his father. This is the perfect wrap of the emotional arcs and themes in the movie, and the giant CGI monster punch fest was a pain to watch.

[@superninjapirate19]

That’s what I’ve been saying! That film would have really hit an emotional high with Shang chi and his dad as the final fight. How dope would it have been to see them face off in the dojo shot like an old school Kung fu film with all of the built up tension between father and son. Disney just couldn’t fucking help themselves.

[@frde2190]

Would have been better to have the dragon fight before the Shang Chi vs Dad fight

[@Daniel-yy3ty]

@@frde2190 yeah, but timeline wise it would have been dumb... how would dad be a problem if Shang Chi can kill a flippin CGI monstrosity? if they really had to keep the CGI monstrosity (and let's face it, they are here to stay) I think a better resolution would have been dad release CGI m. (a shrunk CGI m. so that it's at least comparable in size with them. going for shadow of the colossus in a martial arts movie was meh) instead of being eaten after 2 seconds, dad realize he fucked up and fight alongside Shang Chi (having them actively pass each other the rings contrasted to the yoinking earlier in the fight would have been so good) Have dad either eat a fatal would to open CGI m. to a finisher or retire after they reconcile

[@basedcat2349]

Yes!! That would’ve been perfect. But of course they had to ruin it with the giant CGI monster.

[@DreamyAileen]

Absolutely. It kills me that they put so much effort into good Hong-Kong-style kung fu action only to throw it all away in favor of a big CGI monster battle at the very end.

[@sophiethepegasus]

This really gets me thinking about Rogue One... how the ending of the world HAPPENED, and it resonates to this day.

[@bosaciousbagginocious7475]

By world ending standards, Rogue One is one city nuked but the rest is fine. MCU is so Earth-centric that a world ending scenario on it is equivalent of the Darth Nihilus swallowing the galaxy.

[@staliniumprojectile]

For those, who for some strange reason would be interested: when the celestial's hand quickly emerges from the ground, the location where it happens is Hungary, covering the entire North Eastern part of the country.

[@gary_something_else6417]

the only thing I found interesting about the ending of eternals (or should I say the movie as a whole) is the fact that there's just a country sized celestial statue sticking out of the planet in some part of the ocean now, I wonder if we'll see it again in a future movie... probably not.

[@Dracocetus]

This video was an eye opener for me. I have always heard the stakes in a story has to be very high for the audience to care. I'm writing a book and it has the "nearly end of the world" type of stakes, and it always bothered me for some reason. I didn't know what I could do to fix the ending. While watching, alternative endings and stakes for my story came to me. I think you fixed my problem. Great video! Edit: Forgot to mention I have planned for sequels, so actually ending the world wouldn't be an option for me.

[@TheCloserLook]

Nice, glad to hear I helped. Good luck with the story!

[@Dracocetus]

@@TheCloserLook Thank you! 😄🌸

[@JustAHorrorShow]

The stakes do not actually have to be that high. The stakes just need to be there and relevant to the story and characters. Jjust think about how low and small scale the stakes in most romance stories are. You don't need high stakes to get the audience to care so much as you need interesting characters. If the characters are interesting enough, then we don't need the threat of the world ending to care. If a character is interesting enough, we'll care even if the stakes are as low as "oh no mc might embarrass himself in front of his crush". I recommend focusing on the characters first and then identifying the stakes later.

[@JonAddison]

One fix, depending on the type of story, is do it... end the world.

[@Dracocetus]

@@JustAHorrorShow You are totally right! I just never thought about that 😂👍

[@benana2276]

That Shang Chi ending sucked so much because it felt like "oh yeah we need an epic ending okay let's put a portal here and... Ummm... A few multidimensional alien creatures inside that want to eat humanity's ass, yeah this is gonna be awesome"

[@stringer2295]

Exactly

[@notyourdad9548]

I literally fell asleep during the ending. The color tone changed to dark and all of a sudden there were giant monsters on screen. Zzzzzz

[@beezystuff3]

Naaa movie was great all around

[@notyourdad9548]

@@beezystuff3 nahhh it fell off at the end

[@benana2276]

@@notyourdad9548 yeah the ending made it mediocre

[@pancakesareawesome3121]

Well said my guy. I’ve been brainstorming a large project I’ve been wanting to make for about two years now, and the more I watch these videos, the more I understand what people want from a story. Even before watching reviews and things like that for movies I realized that I subconsciously made my dream tv show. World ending, yet looks more on character building and their well being. So when I watch these videos I pat myself on the back for making a well rounded project that has better plot and storyline than a multi-billion dollar company

[@wendahu5943]

Often, the true essence of conflict in a drama is actually the internal struggle of the characters. When everyone can see the villains are not likely to succeed, the suspense is no longer about who'll win, but about the cost, and the changes this struggle will bring to the characters we care about.

[@leroyrodgers6089]

Shaing Chi really lost me when they released the monster dragon thing and then had the water dragon thing fight it. It was a bit much. I was hoping him fighting his father would resolve things. His father have the realization that his wife was actually dead. They could have done this differently.

[@GiantButterKnife]

Imagine if the [evil dragon] took the form of his wife, pitting Shang Chi against both, or even making it a 3-way fight. Wen being killed by a monster that looked like his lover could've been so good.

[@Coolsomeone234]

That and Marvel wouldn't kill off another good villain

[@andrewj1754]

I am in full agreement with you. I was happy for it to be an emotional fight between father and son. Not gigantic monster CGI rubbish.

[@davonteashcraft]

the third act felt very cheap and lazy. there was so much going on and half of it never even had much buildup. you can tell marvel didn’t work too hard on the story for that one.

[@leroyrodgers6089]

@@GiantButterKnife Far far better idea.

[@TaurielTheElf]

And this is why I love Agents of SHIELD. They went gradually from "saving a couple of people" to "saving the entire world" to "saving the fabric of space-time". And the more they raised the external stakes, the more they raised the personal stakes between the characters.

[@wickedchild8501]

AoS had one of the best developing stories I have ever seen. And s7 finished it with a flourish

[@cow167]

Exactly, and things felt unpredictable because while normally people have plot armour, there are still times when they can't manage to save everyone which keeps the stakes and tension

[@leapeddragon9956]

I think ZSJL did the world ending part perfectly. We're all thinking the heros will win and that the world wouldn't end but then it completely surprises us by actually ending the world. Until flash does flash but that scene was pretty cool

[@ethanhenrichs5677]

Agreed

[@mrsato7508]

I love how umbrella academy deals with the world's end. It's always not the main problem, even if it's still a thing that can happen, and even happened sometimes

[@Scarletpooky]

The big question is "why should we care?" The answer should be "because the characters care", viewers are invested in a story if they care about what happens with the characters. If you can get that right then it doesn't matter if it's world ending, a world reaching spy network, or just a couple of villains in New York at Christmas.

[@Dash123456789Brawl]

I know you were probably talking about Hawkeye, but I like to think you meant Home Alone 2.

[@Scarletpooky]

@@Dash123456789Brawl either is fine :)

[@user-km4lo8zz6z]

Thank you. Well said

[@cr7fanatic164]

@@Scarletpooky Hawkeye was pretty bad, idk

[@ganeshraj769]

But how could you care if you already know nothing happens to the characters. That's whay the video guy meant

[@chickencurry420]

Having your villain threaten the world is simultaneously the highest and lowest stakes you could possibly have. Highest because the world ending would be pretty bad for the people that live there. But lowest because we know they won't actually do it. At this point, "the world is at stake" is really just code for "Don't think about the plot because it doesn't really matter. This story is really about our characters more than anything" I don't think of the end of the world as high stakes anymore, it's really just a backdrop for a story to happen. It's the MacGuffin of motivations. It's like threatening the main character of an ongoing series. No matter how dire any given situation may seem, you know they're not gonna kill the main character until the very end.

[@Darth_Insidious]

World ending threats also don't say much about the protagonists who fight against them. It says little about the hero's morality or worldview when the people they are fighting want to destroy everything, and even less about the villain's. It's much more interesting to see a villain threaten something unique to that protagonist/story.

[@weirdyoda04]

I’ve been saying this for a long time. You can make the audience totally invested in weather or not a single character dies but it’s impossible for an audience to get invested in ‘the whole world ending’.

[@deliriouszora]

I always wonder why it felt weird to me that the father of Shangi chi died. At first I thought it's because his character wasn't complete, but I heavily doubted, but when you put as it removes the main stake the movie had going, that makes much more sense to me.

[@deathdude360]

For me, I don't mind the "world ending threats", because we all know going into it that at the end of it all, the good guys will win in the final acts, it's about how they do it that keeps me watching.

[@yugiwinninglex]

This care doesn't care abt that nor abt the character just abt whether the good guys or Villian will win. Wait if u watch a show doesn't that mean the MC will always win so y go watch it anyway?

[@theirongiants]

Journey is better than the Destination.

[@munemanees9530]

@@yugiwinninglex if it enjoyable than yeah

[@charliechimento852]

Same here

[@egekazkayas8968]

@@yugiwinninglex they don’t always win

[@Lobster_Dance]

Another thing the Eternals did that really lowered the stakes and my investment from the outset, they were just so powerful. When you are looking at a single or group of heroes with near unlimited power and potential, it is no longer the world ending threat that is interesting, but the characters and their interactions with the world they are trying to save. That is where Superman has the chance of getting it right. When it comes to the smaller stakes, saving a love interest, the family farm, your father figure, something relatable and on a level we as the audience can understand and feel close to. Anyway, Eternals could have been really good if they had focused on the flaws and challenges eluded to in the heroes rather than jumping to cloudy cgi monster fight, flashy Superman clone vs the rest, and world ending monolith barren of emotion or motivation. I mean, hell, even if there had been some focus on the ethics of stopping the Earth from being consumed because we like a few humans and the art they created over the billions of lives the new celestial would have generated. Like, wow, the balls to decide your little planet is more important than the birth of hundreds with the potential for trillions of new lives. Wow.

[@goldenpimpernell9269]

If anything, the thing I found neatest about Eternals was the big decision once it was realized how celestials were created; the whole "do we save this planet and everyone on it or let cosmic nature take its course" struck a cord of intrigue in me, personally. We don't see many situations like that where its a lose/lose (I could be wrong, correct me if I am); and sure, alot of things didn't land in that movie but the things that did work I'd say make it stand out from the rest somehow, even if its not the best movie.

[@creativereader6033]

In this regard, I would have loved for the solution not to be a boss fight but a third option that the heroes create, because, yes, the Eternals are incredibly good at fighting, but at coming up with something else? Some way for both cosmic nature to take its course and for Earth to be saved? That would have been really cool.

[@Flipneed]

Thank you so much for the last part😄

[@jedroberts10]

This is exactly why I love Infinity War so much. The stakes are low enough to believe that it could happen and high enough to still be a huge threat. Not only that, but I knew that it was part 1 of 2 and that a lot of the actors had already been in the films for a while and so it was believable that any one of them could be killed off (who, as a moviegoer, I care a whole lot more about than the billions of people that I never see who are also in danger). I still remember the absolute shocked silence that followed Tony getting stabbed by Thanos. Everybody knew that it was a real possibility that he could die right then. I love both Infinity War and Endgame, but the difference between the two was that I knew that they would bring everyone back in Endgame and I didn’t know what would happen in Infinity War

[@Dash123456789Brawl]

I always find it interesting when people say that the stakes in infinity war are lower than the world ending stakes of most marvel movies; since they’ve established the universe is teeming with life, Earth probably makes up less than half a percent of the life in the universe. Objectively speaking, Marvel movies have only had universal stakes a few times, and those are the only ones that can compare to the scale of the stakes in Infinity War.

[@someonespotatohmm9513]

@@Dash123456789Brawl But marvel movies can continue with half the universe, contineuing without earth, although possible, doesn't seem like it would happen. I think it comes close to how character death is dealt with. If a character dies after finishing its' arc it is sad, but doesn't realy matter. If a character dies mid arch, that is devastating naritavely. Imo this is why many of the early GoT deaths/situations where so unpredictable and great. The entire narative could be flipped every moment.

[@balistikscaarz1959]

See this was my problem with X Men apocalypse mainly, like Apocalypse himself is almost a Thanos level villain in the world but with no build up to him in just being in one movie, there's no way you're going to have all humans wiped out. It just won't happen. Lower objective stakes, but higher subjective stakes (a friend dying) always make for more uncertainty in the end result vs higher objective stakes.

[@tutorialslave]

The ideal way to build towards Apocalypse posing a global threat in present day would/could be as follows: - an origin story set 5.000 years in the past introducing the Horsemen concept - X-Men vs. Mr Sinister (or even an Angel/Archangel movie with him being manipulated by Essex) - X-Men vs. Horsemen (I'd love Wolverine / Cyclops / Nightcrawler / Mystique) - finally an "Age of Apocalypse" two-parter with considerable stakes and lasting repercussions (the X-Men should lose 2-3 long-standing members)

[@balistikscaarz1959]

@@tutorialslave I agree it should've been an avengers movie level event not a one and done thing

[@ChangedMyNameFinally69]

@@tutorialslave Maybe a bit too many movies. But definitely build up Apocalypse throughout all of the prequel movies. But that was probably studio meddling and having no actual plan.

[@tysonwhitman3303]

totally agree, it's fine to build up to world- or galaxy- or universe-ending stakes but when it's every dang movie it just loses all impact. What matters more isn't how the events impact the world or the universe, but rather how they impact the characters we care about

[@hugovandermeer7237]

@The Closer Look Thanks for everything!!

[@Josh-Parker_Battleedits]

I love the MCU but yeah I feel like they've overdone that plot where the world is gonna end a bit too much to the point where it doesn't feel intense or the world is at stakes anymore, the audience doesn't feel that fear anymore.

[@wizmo2216]

Really liked your take on Shang-Chi. A little bit of a personal anecdote: my mom is a huge fan of the actor that plays the father (Xu Wenwu), Tony Leung Chiu-wai. So we watched the movie several times in theaters. We both liked the use of Chinese dialogue in the story and the way in which the family was developed, and especially the nuances of Xu’s character. And my mom was REALLY upset that he died during the climax. Anyways, my mom told me that in an interview, Tony expressed that he preferred the emotional scenes that focused on the family far more than the action scenes, and I bring it up because it adds to your point that the movie was strong because the action was supporting the family story, not the other way around.

[@klltsun_2576]

I watched Shang Chi with my cousin and it was great. It was mostly because I enjoyed the family struggle thing with his dad, and his sister who he hadn't come back for (also yes, the fighting scenes were great), and holy heck when his dad told him he just watched his mom get killed- way to use words to stab and twist on someone's trauma. Worse, your own son's trauma. And they're just so hurting and mourning, all three of them. I wasn't into the plot because of fear that "Oh no the world might end!"

[@trollerpilotxiv3079]

There's a trope called "The World is Always Doomed". The problem with this trope is that if the world is always under threat the people living there get really pessimistic and fatalistic.

[@TheUnintentionalWildCard]

This is my take away: ALWAYS keep the stakes PERSONAL. Thanks, Henry. :)

[@pumkin610]

I'll keep that in mind

[@TheCloserLook]

Yeah, I think any good climax always involves a highly personal element, from it being a rom com to being an end of the world story.

[@alexisdogbo7958]

I don't think that it is ALWAYS necessary, but it would be nice to see more.

[@splewy]

This is precisely why the origin story movies are usually my favorite superhero stories by far. You get a lot more focus on the characters, the relationships and their arcs. Sure there’s always a villain, but the stakes are typically nowhere near world ending.

[@obambagaming1467]

Either: - don't have that high stakes to begin with - do it like Infinity War - let the villian partially succeed - let the villian partially succeed or fail, but make them cause so much damage through the story, that even when they stop them, a lot of people and even characters have died. That the villian, even when defeated, caused a lot of death and destruction and left an immense impact.

[@movienaut]

I remember watching the premiere of Infinity War. Hundreds of Marvel/superhero/you-name-it fans. This was the time where everyone riddiculed Thanos, since he was only in the background sitting in his throne. There were high expectations, but also very low expectations for the supervillain, since everyone didn't care for any Marvel villains, since they were all one time-marvel villains. Also, Hollywood would never dare do a movie where the heroes looses. But after the snap, I never experienced a cinema that silent and when the credits came, the whole audience cheered and applauded loudly. It was the best cinema moment in my whole life.

[@CandyThePuppy]

Can there ever be a movie where the main villain's goal is to simply, "make YOU _suffer..."_ talking to the main character. I mean, I'm sure that has been done before, but there is SO much one can do with simply that! Does the main character deserve it? If so, have they or have they not changed their ways since doing what they are now being punished for? Does the main character actually WANT THEMSELF to suffer like the villain, but because of an adopted child or new goal they now are in charge of have the goal now to NOT die simply to protect that thing they hold dearest? Are they literally IMMORTAL and simply CAN'T die, like that one comic featuring Keanu Reeves? HOW exactly does the villain intend to make the main character "suffer?" Do they mean by physical, mental, emotional, or a combination of the different types of pain one can feel?! What if by "suffer" they mean something much deeper, philosophical (regarding the very idea of suffering itself) than the main character originally thought? See what I mean? Such a thing as this could branch out into SO many different ideas! It could be a thriller, horror, existential, or even COMEDIC if you stretch it in certain ways! Unlike the "Ight, imma destroy some s####," you can actually go in all kinds of different directions and basically make WHATEVER you want!

[@klas-6]

It was me Barry

[@wrestlerwannabe]

There is a manga series I read a long while back, where the protagonist was fighting the lieutenant of the antagonist, who had a major grudge against the protagonist and the antagonist. “Why am I working for this psycho? Because you didn’t save me. I was beaten, abused, and belittled by my family for years, before he came along and taught me how to hate and kill them. There’s no point in trying to save me now, hero. You missed your chance.” Paraphrasing because it’s been a while.

[@CandyThePuppy]

@@wrestlerwannabe n i c e

[@fazedproductions4132]

@@CandyThePuppy some of the Batman comics are like that with the joker. In fact he actually succeeded in making Superman suffer and turn into a dictator who claims the entire world. Name is Injustice if you want to read.

[@emblemblade9245]

Xenoblade 3

[@benwhite8157]

This is precisely the problem I've had with the MCU for a long time. They're always trying to up the stakes, but it ends up making all of the film's events feel way less impactful. You're exactly right that the investment plummets when little old superhero says 'everyone gonna die?!😱🤯😫' I want more from the MCU to explore the humanity of some of the hundreds of interesting characters they have access to, not just give them an unquestionably evil target to fight and call it a day.

[@viscountrainbows6452]

The DCU also has this apocalypse fetish rear its head in many of its titles. Like gee, insurance companies in superhero universes must make insane bank if there's a galactic planet-buster level Dragon Ball Z threat every few months

[@Dookieman1975]

They can pull end the world off with galactus, the universe requires his survival so they just have to let him do it, so save everyone and evacuate earth.

[@iswiftyfox8997]

The mcu is lame now. And I don’t think it will ever be not lame anytime soon. I’m just so damn bored of it. Like come on u expect me to watch the Hawkeye show? What can possibly happen in the Hawkeye show that’s gonna be majorly cool or anything. They just release too many movies. And unless it’s an avengers movie or civil war they all feel the same fighting some generic enemy.

[@Dookieman1975]

@@iswiftyfox8997 you’re basically getting burn out, after seeing so many mcu movies you’ve basically seen it all. I wouldn’t say the mcu is lame now because we got no way home, Moonknight, and eventually multiverse of madness. It’s just that it’s getting repetitive except for a few movies

[@iswiftyfox8997]

@@Dookieman1975 yeah thats how i feel. but ive also kinda felt that since the beginning. Like what stakes does any of the iron man movies or captain america moves have

[@juancabardo21]

One of the many reasons why Dark Knight was so great. The Joker and Batman weren’t battling for the fate of the world, they were battling for the soul of Gotham, which is why it was so interesting morally.

[@rhianwriting9411]

Arguably the world-ending thing both works well AND is unnecessary in Guardians films (and I'd extend that to The Suicide Squad for DC), because Gunn's character work is so strong that we care about what the protagonists experience - and in an ensemble work it's possible one might die, or that, even if they don't die, there are stakes in terms of their interrelationships and the impact the disaster will have on them. I think back to the first film, and Ronan approaching Xandar, and how we have MET the people who are about to die (even if briefly. Gunn seems able to instill even bit characters with clear personalities, agendas and agency) - and some of them do die.

[@bunchofcds2300]

This is the mistake I see with a lot of ongoing series, whether it be movies, tv shows or books, where they try to keep audience engagement by continuously raising the stakes to the point where it reaches something to this level. However the issue with this is that when you raise the stakes to that extent, it destroys audience investment, simply because when you say that you are going to kill everyone on the planet, you don't know everyone on the planet. With the story I'm currently making, there are some good stakes within it, but all of them are tied to the main characters directly and is something that they care about in a way that the audience can get behind them. This is my big takeaway with stuff like this, keep your stakes personal, not global.

[@frostnova2144]

Prime example of this: Supernatural

[@Nev1812]

Id imagine it because of ignorance. Yes, there are other parts and cultures in the world that can be made of story but knowing how cancel culture is like. It's rare to see change

[@user-km4lo8zz6z]

It’s not a mistake if it is successful. A lot of people like those sort of stakes (including myself

[@stevenredpath9332]

Buffy handled it the best. Just look at the series after she defeated the god Gloria.

[@shadowspector3611]

This is also why No Way Home is so good. Aside from the returning character and the fan service, the stakes of the movie aren’t insanely high. It’s not that Peter needs to stop everyone in the multi-verse from coming to their universe. That’s Strange’s goal. Peter’s goal is to save as many villains as he can, and he can 100% fail with every single one of them.

[@FireJach]

but still the world was going to suffer

[@neurotica5461]

Yea I forgot that the world was gonna end until Goblin blew the box up lol

[@Adriano_446]

Strange: Catch those villains or the multiverse will collapse on itself. Peter: lol no i'm going to cure them. This movie was so fucking awesome.

[@artofvale_1122]

Ah yes, so good that a neurosurgeon with magic abilities loses against a kid who knows trigonometry, really not forced plot. Ah yes, they create the cures for villains in a school. Ah yes, villain murderers need to be saved because of May's moral logic. Ah yes, Dr. Strange is a universal wizard and gets wrong his magic because Peter said some names. Why didn't they use this magic against Thanos to make him forget about the stones, or his needs to balance the universe, i guess it was a brand new magic trick. Ah yes, let's show the useless Daredevil just for the plot...

[@shadowmaverick15]

@@artofvale_1122 By the time Strange knew about Thanos he already had several stones and thus protected, the only one that was proactive about trying to prevent Thanos from happening and everyone though he was crazy for it , so hardly a point to complain there, even the time stone wasnt an option agaisnt Thanos after her some stones to defend itself from its power so a simple mind erasing spell is even less likely to have any effect on someone wielding the reality stone for example, why even the powerfull dormamu couldnt do anything agaisnt the effect of a single stone

[@DualKeys]

I remember when I watched the trailer for Quantumania. I enjoyed the first two movies and was curious about where the next movie was going. As soon as the trailer started talking about the end of the world, I immediately checked out. Too many things can end the universe now. It's not exciting.

[@Vivigreeny25]

There’s something SO funny to me about the thumbnail. Like, it comes off more as a “marvel stop threatening the world please I’m sick of these near death experiences” than just a writing tip.

[@shieldgenerator7]

100% agree! Encanto is way more compelling as a story than The Eternals. Despite having 0 stakes, Encanto's conflict is deeply personal and thus more engaging. Contrast that to Eternals, where it hardly made me care about the characters at all, even though 2 of them died.

[@syra1541]

although I think the movies are fundamentally very different, it's hard to compare a character based/emotional story to a superhero movie, which has it's own conventions, it's got heroes and villains, the villains need an evil plan, so they want big stakes so the hero can be the hero, obviously every movie has conflict, or antagonists but not a villain in the traditional sense

[@remylebae3395]

Encanto most certainly has stakes. Losing her home and her family. They're relatively small stakes, but to the characters and audience, they're *everything.*

[@iantaakalla8180]

Furthermore, the encanto was in response to a need from protection from war so if the encanto stops, so does their protection. And I do mean all of it because all of the town revolves around the Madrigals providing for the townspeople like benevolent gods of a specific town. It also is that very mindset that also contributes to that conflict, so in fact the family drama has very high stakes - the family, the house, and the safety and livelihood of the town all against whatever is accidentally enforced throughout the Madrigals.

[@amrtamer3240]

are you comparing encanto with the etaraels like you can't they are totally diffrent movies

[@sidhadhbinu560]

Encanto ? Really?

[@timmyman9677]

It's so common in Marvel movies, you have to wonder what the other heros are doing, probably stopping the end of the world themselves.

[@professoridiot26]

EXACTLY When I first watched Eternals I was like “Where the hell is Captain America? Where the hell is Spider-Man? Most importantly, where the hell is Doctor Strange?”

[@mtj8870]

@@professoridiot26 captain america is a dying old man

[@professoridiot26]

@@mtj8870 not Steve, Sam

[@mtj8870]

@@professoridiot26 ohhh

[@iantaakalla8180]

I guess the Eternals like to be reclusive, omnipotent, Watch-The-World-From-A-Distance people such that they would never seek out people punching slightly lower than the Eternals weight like Thor at his best or Doctor Strange or even the Hulk or if the goal was information gathering, Black Widow. Also, they judge humanity so that would be a hard sell for those who are firmly for humanity.

[@gridalien]

I think this is something that needs to be said for a lot of franchises, rather than just Marvel. There's always some kind of ancient evil/precursor race or imminent doom that comes around in games, movies and shows, sometimes hijacking the original narrative and making the original slew of villains pretty much a footnote

[@wingedkatgirl]

THESE RE DESIGNS LOOK SO AMAZING!!!!!!! I love your art style!! I wonder if I should submit my oc…

[@Lunk42]

Yeah one of the best things I'd heard about the dark knight was how the stakes felt real because of how you genuinely didn't know if the joker would win or not but he could because it wasn't literally everyone at risk. Which is what tdkr does.

[@ASmartNameForMe]

“The closer look takes his environmentalism to even fictional heights”- the video

[@TheCloserLook]

Dropping a collab with Greta Thunberg soon. Stay tuned.

[@ASmartNameForMe]

@@TheCloserLook if I don’t see that collab I’m unsubbing

[@tutorialslave]

@@ASmartNameForMe How dare you!

[@ASmartNameForMe]

@@tutorialslave Marvel has stolen my dreams, and my childhood, with their empty words, and yet I’m one of the lucky ones!

[@mrcalvin6881]

LOVE this video! Explains one of my biggest gripe with the MCU very well

[@requiem6465]

Best example is how JoJos has different stakes in different parts. Part 3 and 6 were world level threats, parts 4 and 5 were local and national threats.

[@madeliner1682]

tbh after infinity war my thought were "Cool! Gonna be disappointed when they pull some bullshit to undo all that though" b/c marvel has already brought characters back from the dead before and I know the shareholders would throw a hissy fit if they killed half the universe and then didn't undo it

[@Myuunium]

This bugged me so fucking much, more than anything else in the MCU. When they discussed time travel I immediately ceased to care (and I like time travel!), and Iron Man's death wasn't enough for me to give a shit. There was a massive disconnect between the characters going "oh boo hoo a fren died" and how I felt about it happening, because I'd already learned Marvel is too much of a pussy to do anything that makes you care.

[@RegalRoyalWasTaken]

@@Myuunium In my eyes it would have been a lot cooler for the conflict of the movie to revolve around creating new Infinity Stones after Thanos destroyed the old ones. If you need to have that big final battle, then maybe whatever shenanigans they use to remake the Time Stone causes an alternate Thanos to see what's happening and swoop in to take advantage while the fabric of time and space are temporarily a bit hazy.

[@sharkwar4284]

The only time I have accepted and feared for the whole world ending plot is in Zach Snyder's Justice League, as we are getting hints that it may actually happen in the DCEU soon and it did actually happen for a brief moment too (that is, if Flashpoint doesn't reboot the entire franchise)

[@captainahab5522]

A potential idea is to have a world ending threat that you “know” that the world isn’t going to end. And then have the heroes fail.

[@Asian-Hawaiian-Orian]

Great video man. Really good insight. This is why Spider-Man 2 with Tobey Maguire will always live in our hearts. Because yes New York City was in trouble however it was the relationship with Peter and Doctor oct that was the real drama. The second act had the really cool fight scene. But the third act was resolved with Peter inspiring Doctor oct then Doctor oct overcoming his will and being able to control his arms. Then it's not even Spiderman who destroys the energy reactor. It is Doctor oct who was inspired by Peter.

[@peterfrank3365]

In regards to "the world's ending should be in the background", 'Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2' had glimpses of worlds being consumed by Ego as he grew. But the real stakes are at the front, the Guardians themselves; Quill's friends, or as how Drax puts it, family.

[@henith7850]

thats the power of james gunn. Both guardians films, the suicide squad and peacemaker all have world ending threats but the real focus is on the character dynamics.

[@dayyanahmad117]

@@henith7850 and Justice League arrived after Peacemaker's team won. That was beyond expectation. 😂😂😂

[@meris8486]

A great part of Civil War is that the stakes were the team itself and Bucky's life. The team could have fallen apart and it did which is part of why Thanos wins in Infinity War. Bucky could have died and that would have worked, but he didn't cause they narrowly beat Iron Man. That's part of what makes the fight so intense and compelling, it could go either way, but no matter what we are witnessing the destruction of a friendship, Cap even breaks Tony's heart (figuratively) with the final blow.

[@theomnitorium7476]

World ending stakes were definitely a great idea for the Ms Marvel show, a street level hero who's biggest problem is being uncomfortable at school. Well done, writers, well done...

[@zacbhumgara]

A good way to compare team dynamics now I use the first GotG film as the teams relationships were built really well. If you compare the team dynamics in GotG and in Eternals you can see that you tend to care more for GotG.

[@Jakjakattack]

My issue with Shang Chi's ending is an issue I have with a fair few films - where a loved one who is a villain gets killed off in some redemption sort of way. To me it just screams that the writers either can't or don't want to bother writing about someone who redeems themsemselves dealing with the consequences of their former villainy. In the cinema for Shang Chi, I even said to my friend 'tenner says they'll kill his dad so they dont have to deal with consequences'.

[@man2981]

Crazy how *spoilers for The Batman* the Riddler’s final plan of flooding a single city felt so much more compelling than these world ending scales, it feels more grounded and unexpected in a believable sense, my heart was racing through that entire climax unlike most Marvel flicks

[@whatif9854]

Totally agreed. Completely unexpected and a genuinely tense and kinda scary sequence.

[@s1.m511]

It really didn't though. The second that explosion happens the movie goes way down hill and there is no stakes because you do not care about the politician. The first 2/3 of the movie are incredible. The climax however just isn't.

[@bodkimalone]

You've managed to word I've tried to word (but not well) a lot of problems I've had with modern cinema in terms of superheroes, well done TCL,well done

[@tangroro]

I love how NOTHING has changed, in fact now even Disney+ series have world ending conflicts

[@toddbernstein3407]

Excellent video as always! I know the MCU movies are formulaic, but I never really considered how much the "end of the world" plot is used. On an unrelated note, thank you for introducing me to Horizon Zero Dawn. The world building in that game is fantastic!

[@TheCloserLook]

Ah, glad to know you liked it. The main mystery just blew me away the first time I played it.

[@crajabli]

Completely agree, these movies should feel more personal and have more character development because right now 70% of marvel movies just feel same in everything And that's the reason to why I loved the batman so much

[@abyandzulikramzainal7339]

With Shang-Chi, I didn't expect the Dark Dweller to come out from its cave. I thought his father might realize what he had done by not seeing the Dweller, BUT by seeing the soul eaters. Like Shang-Chi would let Wenwu saw the soul eaters and explain why her mother was not in that cave. C'mon, how does someone survive in a cave with some soul-sucking monsters? Even Wenwu at the end got his soul sucked

[@quantummelody2959]

This made me think of yuki yuna is a hero. I watched the last few episodes of the third chapter the other day and even though I'd watched the final episode before any of those their final struggle was still intense to watch. Of course, the remainder of humanity was about to be wiped out by a bunch of gods and the protagonists were trying to stop that, but the actual stakes were more if they could save their friend from being sacrificed to save everyone else. I guess it being a dark magical girl anime gives its threats a bit more oomph because they could actually have Yuna die to save everyone or Tougou and the club decide to sacrifice the world for Yuna. The show has issues but damm do they know how to do a dramatic freaking climax.

[@connorbrennan4233]

1:39-2:02 Those reasons are a big part of why those four films (along with the first Guardians of the Galaxy) are my top 5 favorite MCU films. Even Civil War, being a culmination of sorts of so many previously established relationships at that point still feels very personal for most of its characters. There's a lot more going on in these films than most others in the MCU, I feel. And coincidentally, these four are perhaps among the MCU films least affected by bathos.

[@samuellopez479]

Bathos. The Wash Titan

[@samuellopez479]

Sorry bro, I just wanted to make a joke. You still make a good point. The plots with lower stakes focus more on the characters than the plot itself. Like in Civil War, apparently Bucky and Steve were heading to Siberia to stop some russian super soldiers from wreaking havoc but, the only bit I processed was that they arrive, find out the truth of Tony’s parents and sever the avengers’ relationship entirely

[@Fanimei]

“Please stop trying to end the world” Marvel: ok.. What about the multiverse 😏

[@darkigg]

This is old. Though, according to secret wars, earth is the center of the universe, so to destroy a universe you need to destroy it's earth 😎

[@amayz111]

Okay I actually liked this one

[@TaiWind]

i do quite love how the Loki series did this in season 2. the world-ending stakes (directly resulting from what happened at the end of season 1) are something you expect the heroes to stop, because of course the writers aren't going to blow up the entire multiverse. but then the multiverse actually *does* blow up... at the end of episode 4. but then you remember that this whole show is a time travel story so episode 5 and 6 involve loki grappling with and eventually learning how to control his groundhog day powers so he can go back and prevent the multiverse from blowing up. the question at that point isn't "will the multiverse blow up" (because it already did) but "how does he stop it"